There are a few of us that auto-x pretty regularly. Figured it might make sense to start a thread to accumulate videos, photos, stories, tips, etc...
I've been running SCCA Solo since 2010. I ran the last 2 events of the 2010 season in my Mazda3 as a novice, did reasonably well, was immediately hooked, and subsequently ran full seasons starting in 2011 with my Mustang. I ran the '11 Mustang as my primary auto-x vehicle for 5 seasons. Four of those were in the F Stock/Street class. There was one year I decided to run in STX (despite the car being stock). I raced the Mazda a few times in '11 and '12. Mostly in years when I was in a close points race for overall season PAX points, and had already locked up my class class title, since the Mazda had a significantly better PAX handicap. The Mazda3 was also just a really good auto-x car (and they still are very capable). I ran my Jetta once last year, in our last event of the season, because I was expecting my new/current Mustang to arrive at any day and didn't want to risk anything happening to the 2011 days before trading it in. I'll never take the VW to an Auto-X again. Absolutely horrible auto-x vehicle. I would rather not go than race that car.
And a couple of videos from today's very wet event. Due to a short course and very low turn-out (like <15 people), we got 20 runs in despite the horrible weather. The course layout was fun, but with the weather it definitely favored small, FWD or AWD cars. The pavement at the turn-around in the far end of the course has some kind of sealant on it that turns extremely slick when wet. I had a lot of trouble putting power down. You can tell it's a lot slicker because I'm only pulling ~.4-.45g around that corner while at other places, like the sweeper leading up to the finish, I'm pulling .75-.8. Oh, and the standing water made for some interesting hydroplane action.
These were when the track was at its wettest during the first heat of runs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APRdFC0L3BU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APRdFC0L3BU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwVb4MawvtM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwVb4MawvtM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTyGViOCxaQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTyGViOCxaQ)
The rain eventually let up, but the pavement was never dry. Well, not until the event was over and then the sun came out as we were doing fun runs before picking up all of the cones.
As to fun runs, I got to try out a couple of other folks cars. Drove a Z3M Roadster. Ran B Street, so minimal mods (if any). Had a better set of tires on it than I have on my car. Much better front end grip on the slick portion of the track. Fun car. Not a lot of punch below 4000 RPM (I think my last V6 Mustang had more grunt down low), but on slick track that's not a bad thing. The ESP was also really intrusive. Good for keeping you from fishtailing, but it didn't allow any amount of sliding whatsoever. Not quite as bad as my previous Mustang, but noticeable. Clutch and shifter didn't feel quite as nice as my Mustang either. Shifter didn't feel as precise and the clutch had a strange effort level (and the friction point was very near the bottom of the pedal). Timing lights were still set up and I put in a respectable time for a car I'd never driven before. I let the owner take the Mustang out for a couple of laps. Even with all of the nannies on, the Mustang allows quite a bit of sliding and rotation. He seemed to be having fun letting the car slide around a bit. He was trying to chuck it into the turns as I suspect he could with his car and the Mustang really doesn't respond as well to jerkier inputs, particularly with the throttle. My car was definitely more of a blunt instrument than the Z3M.
Also took a spin in a modified NA Miata. Car had a bunch of suspension work and a little bit of motor work (bolt-ons, IIRC. Doubt it was making even 140 hp). The owner let a couple of guys who normally run FWD or AWD cars take it out and both either spun out completely or fishtailed off the course. One spun it twice. After the second guy fishtailed off course, the owner laughing his ass off the whole time, they rolled into the pits and the owner joked that his car was apparently built to be a widowmaker. At which point, I just had to take it for a spin to see how much of a handful it really was. It wasn't like it was turbo'ed and had some kind of explosive power surge when the turbo spooled. I made the circuit without any real drama. Car was understeering in the slick back section, so I gave it a bit of gas to rotate the back and around. Did a little sliding through the slalom. Owner was laughing the whole way. I pull into the pits and the two guys who'd previous tried it and spun out are waiting there and the first words out of my mouth were "This thing's a lot of fun, but could use some more power." Followed by "Not sure why you guys had so much trouble keeping it pointed straight".
Why's the VW so bad?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 21, 2016, 07:13:29 PM
Why's the VW so bad?
Horrible understeer and the car cannot be coaxed to rotate by left foot braking into a turn. I wonder if the ESP is even fully defeatable. Body motion is actually pretty well controlled for how soft it is. Doesn't dive as badly as my '11 Mustang did when hard on the brakes. However, the brakes are mushy feeling and have little feel. And when the ABS engages, the pedal goes really soft. Steering likewise offers no feedback whatsoever. Engine seems to make more sound than fury above 3500 RPM and the transmission is not a willing partner. Won't hold gears in manual mode and sort of does what it wants, taking commands to shift more as suggestions. It sounds like it has a CVT because I'm pretty sure it doesn't lock the torque converter in 1st or 2nd gear, so the RPMs kind of stayed at like 4800 regardless of what speed the car was going until it would pre-maturely shift into 3rd as I entered a long (for auto-x) straight away because I spun an inside tire and the RPMs came close to redline. Then it locked the torque converter and bogged along the straight away, refusing to downshift back into second. Even excusing the crappy, Chinese tires, the car was didn't exhibit many good traits where you could say "well, if I had better tires, this car could do pretty well". I ended up getting beat by some people who I generally have little trouble beating. Also a couple of novices with significantly worse PAX modifiers (for two of them this was their first ever event, and I have run against them since and they have not come close to beating me).
This seems like a lot of fun. I should try it.
Have you ever seen someone crash another person's car?
In post-event fun runs? No.
Incidents at traditional auto-x venues are very rare. Courses are set up in large parking lots (or air fields) where there simply isn't much to run into. There are also course safety guidelines about keeping a minimum safe distance from hard obstacles like curbs or light posts. In my time doing it, I've personally only seen one instance of a car being damaged on a cone course (driver lost control and bumped into a light post at between 5 and 10 mph. From what I could see, the bumper and a headlight were damaged. I've heard of 2 other cases. One involved vehicle equipment failure (stuck throttle on a 427 Cobra kit car) that did a fair bit of damage. This did not happen at an SCCA event. The other was another low speed incident that only resulted in some minor paint damage on a dedicated race car that was already in rough shape, cosmetically, anyway. I think the driver bumped into a saw horse or similar mobile barrier that was being used barricade off the lot we were using.
Most incidents I've seen were at non-traditional venues (kart tracks). From what I gather, my local SCCA region is somewhat unique in using such venues. None of the neighboring SCCA regions use such venues.
Great thread. I've done very little AutoX but I think it is great fun and demands skill.
Very ocassionally our track club sets up an AutoX course. Last time was maybe a couple of years ago.
Man, that camera looks fantastic. Which one did you get again? I might consider upgrading from my gopro.
I might have an event or two in me before the year is up. There is a track day in the future as well, but kind of intimidated by that do not sure.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Garmin Virb XE. The cheaper Virb X offers most of the same features.
Some additional footage from last week's event. First video was my best run of the day (very wet, but the rain was down to the lightest of sprinkles). Second video was probably the spookiest run of the day. When the front left tire hit the standing water, the whole car cocked ~10-15 degrees counter-clockwise and was briefly pointed at a pole before straightening out. Then I overcooked the turnaround and had to use a little right foot to correct for terminal understeer, and since the run was pretty well shot, I threw in a little drift through the finish lights (note, all driving aids were fully on).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVrMO-0SC4k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVrMO-0SC4k)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZxA5YbM4Ro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZxA5YbM4Ro)
Pretty good results today. 3rd in PAX, only .054 PAX seconds off of second. What stings a little is that my last run would have been fast enough to take 2nd place (rather, re-take; I was in 2nd at the end of heat 1 and lost it through the course of the afternoon heat) but I clipped a cone. That run was ~.2s quicker than my fastest clean run, and the cone I clipped wasn't in a line that made my run any faster. Oh well. If you don't clip a cone now and again, you aren't trying hard enough.
My fastest clean run of the day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WJTU8yF9GY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WJTU8yF9GY)
How many runs do you get? That last one looks like a pretty long course.
The auto-x I've gone to has always been a "cone forest" with very tight courses that aren't a whole lot of fun. Plus, $40 for 4 sub-1 minute runs is not a very good deal.
I'll always be a track person (though I don't go that often) but that looks like a lot of fun.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on August 27, 2016, 08:41:43 PM
How many runs do you get? That last one looks like a pretty long course.
The auto-x I've gone to has always been a "cone forest" with very tight courses that aren't a whole lot of fun. Plus, $40 for 4 sub-1 minute runs is not a very good deal.
I'll always be a track person (though I don't go that often) but that looks like a lot of fun.
Depends on the turnout and length of course. We typically try to give people 6 runs minimum. That excludes the "enduro", where runs are 2:45-2:55 and people only get 3 runs. Looking at this year's events:
Event 1: ~75s/run, 31 entries, 8 runs
Event 2: ~75s/run, 26 entries, 8 runs
Event 3: ~68s/run, 45 entries, 5 runs (my recollection is things didn't run smoothly and there were a bunch of re-runs)
Event 4: ~35s/run, 23 entries, 16 runs
Event 5: ~170s/run, 31 entries, 3 runs
Event 6: ~28s/run, 83 entries, 8 runs
Event 7: ~35s/run, 13 entries, 20 runs (maximum the timing SW can handle) + I think just about everyone took a couple of unscored fun runs
Event 8: ~47s/run, 26 entries, 10 runs
Damn, that's awesome! Do you have to work the course as well? How much is it if you don't mind me asking?
Quote from: Cookie Monster on August 27, 2016, 09:20:27 PM
Damn, that's awesome! Do you have to work the course as well? How much is it if you don't mind me asking?
Yes, everybody who runs has to work. My work assignment is typically running registration in the morning. If attendance is good, that takes care of my worker responsibilities for the event, so I can just hang out and spectate in my off-heat. Since, this year especially, attendance hasn't been great, I've also worked timing in my off heat. Only event this year I've had to work on the course was a joint event with a neighboring region that was hosted/run by the other region. Their people worked the "cushy" jobs and I got put out on the course to flag and chase cones.
We charge $35 for SCCA members and $45 for non-members locally. Not a great value when you consider $/minute of seat time. But, the two venues my region runs at are both pretty close (one is <20 miles, the other ~25). So it's convenient. Only road course nearby is Watkins Glen, and that's like 85 miles away. They don't have open track days; you have to belong to a club (Porsche Club, BMW Club, Miata Club, generic track club), which means you have annual dues (and for the brand-specific clubs, have to own one of that make of car), plus the track day fee is at least $450 (plus newbies, if they're allowed to run at all, have to pay for an instructor). Last time I figured it out, it would have cost me over $550 for a single day with maybe 30 minutes of seat time and the non-branded clubs I'd be able to join and run with only run there once a year. I've gotten roughly 55 minutes of seat time for a total of $330 (entry fees + SCCA annual membership) so far this year.
Other benefits:
-Not nearly as hard on your car. I ran 5 seasons (~30 events) on my last car and still had the factory brake pads in it and was on my 2nd set of tires (which I also daily drove on).
-Minimal risk of a wreck. Don't have money or space for a dedicated track rat, don't want to risk putting my primary driver into a wall at high speed
-Solo offers friendly competition with a points series, trophies, awards, etc. Running a season in a tight points race with a competitor (or several competitors) is a lot of fun, and part of what you're paying for. 2nd-5th in our points series have been close since like event 4. At the start and end of every event, people run through the hypothetical scenarios or likelihoods of gaining, losing, or maintaining position in the points standings. Makes you a bit more invested in it than if you're just out there to run laps and try to better your own time. HPDEs and non-competitive track days don't offer that.
I'd still like to try an HPDE sometime. There's a new road course facility being built like 15 miles away (though it's been delayed so many times I question if it will really happen... Been hearing "we'll be up and running by October" since 2012). Hopefully they'll offer some HPDEs or track days for a more reasonable price than the Glen. 30 minutes of track time for ~$250, I'd probably go for that. The track being very close by is nice, too, since I won't have to either get up at 4AM or get a hotel room to get there in time for morning registration and driver's meeting.
Damn, your track fees are expensive as fuck. For the HPDE I go to, it's $175 for Thunderhill/Laguna/Buttonwillow and $250 for Sonoma. Add another $25 for a transponder rental. You get 6-7 20 minute sessions, plus a time attack session during lunch where, if you choose to participate, your times in the morning sessions determine how you grid up for the time attack, so you have the faster drivers up front and people don't get tangled up.
We also have a competition with points, classes, awards, etc. It doesn't follow the Stock/STR/STX SCCA rules but its got a similar concept. 120-140 minute sessions for $175-200 with competition makes auto-x completely worthless to me. Sure, your car takes more of a beating and if you want to be competitive for a season it'll be super expensive (I think a season pass is like $3.5k), but you get so much seat time which really helps you improve.
Autox is a lot different than track days IMO. And honestly I like tighter technical courses the most. It really pushes your driving skills but without the risk factor.
I found things happen way too fast in auto-x for me. Or maybe it's because you only get 4 shitty laps in a maze of cones where you can barely see what's happening.
The Houston (yuck) SCCA auto-x also only had 5 or so runs but at least the course was more spread out.
One of the points of Auto-x is being able to quickly learn a new course with no practice. Anybody can get fast on a track when they run there regularly. Auto-x courses are different every event.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on August 27, 2016, 11:00:05 PM
Damn, your track fees are expensive as fuck. For the HPDE I go to, it's $175 for Thunderhill/Laguna/Buttonwillow and $250 for Sonoma. Add another $25 for a transponder rental. You get 6-7 20 minute sessions, plus a time attack session during lunch where, if you choose to participate, your times in the morning sessions determine how you grid up for the time attack, so you have the faster drivers up front and people don't get tangled up.
We also have a competition with points, classes, awards, etc. It doesn't follow the Stock/STR/STX SCCA rules but its got a similar concept. 120-140 minute sessions for $175-200 with competition makes auto-x completely worthless to me. Sure, your car takes more of a beating and if you want to be competitive for a season it'll be super expensive (I think a season pass is like $3.5k), but you get so much seat time which really helps you improve.
Yeah, at that price point, track days are a lot more appealing. Especially if there's some level of competition. Though I assume you book a hotel stay to run at most of those tracks? IIRC, you live in the SF area, and all of those tracks are ~3 hours or more away. Gotta factor that into the cost of the day. Also, at >$200 per event, it gets mighty pricey trying to compete in a full points season (assuming a "season" is comparable to ours at 8-9 events). I can run an 8 or 9-event points season of Auto-X for <$400.
Other factor is weather. We have it here. In the 18 weekends from May 1st to today, it's rained on 8 Saturdays and 7 Sundays (and it's supposed to rain today, so that will make 8). That's nearly a 50% shot of getting stuck in a rainy weekend event. Last year was similar. Track days have to be booked weeks if not months in advance and most tracks I've looked at in the NE don't give refunds unless you cancel over a week in advance (and then it's only a partial). No telling what the weather will do more than ~3-5 days in advance and it typically rains 3 days a week. Sucks to commit hundreds of dollars to a track day and show up and it pours all day (see above rainy day footage). Or worse, if it snows like it did at our first AutoX in mid May (which I didn't go to because my tires are no bueno at <50F)... Like AutoX, I'm sure it's still fun in the rain, but not as fun as in the dry. At least if I get stuck with a crappy weather day in AutoX, I'm only out <$50 bucks and odds are, at least half of the events will be in decent weather. I also don't have to commit the money in advance since it's pay at the gate, so if it's really bad, like the snow day in May, I just don't go and still have ample opportunities to compete through the rest of the season. If I only get the opportunity for 2 or 3 track days in a season and it rains at 1 or more of them, it kind of sucks.
Glen is expensive because, well, it's the Glen. They host numerous professional racing series (NASCAR Xfinity Series, NASCAR Sprint Cup, IndyCar, WeatherTech Sports Car Challenge, etc...). Though Laguna is a similar venue hosting similar caliber professional events. I'm sure the fact that the Glen can only operate 5-6 months out of the year because snow plays into it. The fact that tracks can't operate year round is also why there are fewer of them. In NY, options are Watkins Glen, NY Safety Course, and Monticello. Breakdown of costs:
Monticello - Private motor club. A "Bronze" membership (lowest point of entry) costs $45,000 up front with a $4,300 per year for 10 years membership fee. That membership level gets you 10 driving days (5 of those on weekends).
NY Safety Track - Primarily a motorcycle venue, but they do let cars run there once or twice a month. Non-competitive. $50 annual membership fee, $250/day for cars. Not sure how much seat time you get in one day. I'd imagine at least an hour. If they offer automotive driving instruction/school, they don't advertise it. I've heard that, despite the name, it's kind of sketchy on the safety front. Maybe it's gotten better.
Watkins Glen - Any type of competitive event requires a racing license. Several organizations hold non-competitive HPDEs. Of those:
-Hooked On Driving - Completely non-competitive (don't even record lap times). Hosting/Hosted 2, 3-day weekend events this season. No annual membership fee. Open to novices, but must pay a $50/day "tuition" fee for mandatory instruction. $365 for a single day ($415 for novices), $675 for a 2-day event ($775 for novices), and $1000 for a 3 day event ($1150 for novices). ~120 minutes of driving time per day.
-TracQuest - Hosting/Hosted 3 events this year, all on weekdays. Non-competitive. Must be a club member ($50 annual fee). Single day registration only open for experienced, "solo qualified" drivers. $750 for the 2-day event for a novice, $650 for a solo qualified driver. Single day registration for solo qualified drivers is $400.
-Trackmasters - Hosting/Hosted 4, 2-day events this year, all on weekdays. Non-competitive. Intermediate skill level and up. Not open to newbies (need to show proof of at least 10 past HPDE events or 5 previous HPDEs at WGI). $295 per day for the Intermediate school, $340/day for the open track days (need to demonstrate a high experience level, e.g. a racing license).
Yeah, your prices are crazy. Also, good point about the weather. The HPDE's still run in the rain, but we don't have to sign up till a few days in advance so by then the weather forecasts are generally pretty reliable.
Hotel costs aren't really an issue. Laguna is 1.5 hours away so I just do that in a day trip. Thunderhill is less than 3 hours away (closer to 2 if you drive like an asshole), so I don't get a hotel for that either.
Buttonwillow is 3.5 hours away, so I get a hotel for that, but last time I went we split the room 4 ways and it was about $10 per person, so I don't factor that into the costs of the track day.
Local GT-R getting a bit of daylight under the tire.
(http://i.imgur.com/HOUOWOE.jpg)
Hmm ... tricycles are not legal in that class.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on August 28, 2016, 12:03:11 AM
I found things happen way too fast in auto-x for me. Or maybe it's because you only get 4 shitty laps in a maze of cones where you can barely see what's happening.
The Houston (yuck) SCCA auto-x also only had 5 or so runs but at least the course was more spread out.
The last auto-x I did was about 10 years ago... What a shit fest it was. 3 runs and the course crossed over itself and then back tracked on itself resulting in a cone maze that had probably 75% of the runs DQ'd for missing cones because you couldn't figure out where the hell to go
Quote from: r0tor on November 19, 2016, 05:30:27 PM
The last auto-x I did was about 10 years ago... What a shit fest it was. 3 runs and the course crossed over itself and then back tracked on itself resulting in a cone maze that had probably 75% of the runs DQ'd for missing cones because you couldn't figure out where the hell to go
Maybe we're just good about designing reasonably easy-to-follow courses, but the vast majority of the time when I see somebody get lost on course and get DQ'ed for missing a cone or gate, it's somebody who didn't walk the course in the morning, or only walked it once. I generally walk the course at least 5 times in the morning before the driver's meeting. If there's a section I find potentially confusion, I'll double back and re-walk that section a couple of times. Also not uncommon for me to tag along on the guided novice course walk that's generally hosted by one of the course designers, since they try to point out any potential confusion spots to the novices so they don't get lost. Even on courses that I helped design and set up, I'll walk the course once or twice the morning of the event to keep it fresh in my mind.
I always walk the course once, especially SCCA since the cones are pretty far apart. If it's a particularly interesting course I'll walk twice. I've done a few Goodguys courses without walking (if I show up late), which is fun. :lol: never gotten lost before, worst that's happened is I looped around for a 3rd lap when I was only supposed to do 2. It was early and I forgot how to count.
Last year at OUSCI I volunteered on course and we had a hell of a time keeping people from crashing into the starting line. It was a figure 8 track and for some reason people kept turning left instead of going straight through. Had to red flag way too cars to keep them from running head-on into the next car. Embarrassing since those guys are supposed to be some of the best drivers in the country.
Looking at the SCCA rulebook for 2017. Whatever committee or person is responsible for determining what cars fall into what class needs some sense talked into them. Particularly in the lower end of the Stock classes (DS, GS, and HS). Instead of pushing class over-dogs up into a faster class, they are pushing everybody else down. It's left HS, the slowest stock class, with a huge number of eligible vehicles and with a huge range of capability. It's also made cars that could be reasonably competitive in that class, the types of cars that class was actually intended for, no longer viable. The practice is also hurting everyone else by handing a huge handicap boost to cars that were still very competitive with the handicap they had.
Back 6-7 years ago when I started, I felt the classes were generally appropriate. Looking back at the 2012 rule book:
HS was the economy car class. It was open to non-performance versions of Civics, Sentras, Proteges/Mazda3s, Corollas, 4-banger midsizers, base Mini... The slower generations of Civic Si (early 90s, late 90s, and EP3) were the only "performance" trim compacts really in this class, but weren't really over-dogs and were class appropriate. Also picked up some of the entry-level sport compacts like non-turbo DSMs. Only cars in that class with over 200 hp were Chrysler LH cars, which were full-size, heavy, and saddled with 4AT. Other than those, the typical Power/Weight ratio in that class was right around .05 hp/lb.
GS was the next class up and picked up cars that were more powerful or more specialized. FWD turbo DSMs, V6 midsizers, Preludes, 8th gen Civic Si, GTI (1.8T and 2.0T), Mazdaspeed Protege, Sentra SE-R. Most of the non-V8 pony cars (150-200 hp Mustangs and Camaros). 2.5 Imprezas were here too because they made a bit more power than much of the econo-car class and their AWD gave them an edge. Generally speaking, typical P/W was around .07 hp/lb.
DS was the intermediate GT car class. NA 6-cylinder/turbo-4 3-series, V6 versions of the late-model pony cars (now that they were making ~300 hp), G35/37, Lexus IS... Also the top dogs of the sport compact class. Mazdaspeed3, Integra type R, Mini Cooper S, AWD Turbo DSMs, WRX, R32 Golf, Cobalt SS Turbo. P/W was in the .08-.09 region.
It all kind of started with the Focus ST in 2013. Despite stacking up very well against something like the Cobalt SS Turbo or Mazdaspeed3 in DS, the SCCA put it in GS. Only explanation I have is that it was because the FoST didn't have a limited slip. The car was a serious over-dog in GS. I figured the SCCA would see their error and bump it up to DS where it belonged within a season or two.
They didn't do anything about it in '14. They did put the new Fiesta ST in GS as well, which I'd say belonged there more than the FoST. Given that the Cooper S was in DS and has similar specs to the FiST, I think it could have run in DS as well. 500 Abarth was also in GS, and I think that was a good fit.
Then in '15 they shuffled the classifications. But instead of moving the FoST up to DS, they moved a bunch of cars from GS down to HS. Notably, they moved the newer Civic Sis and the FiST down to HS. They also moved a bunch of the V6 Midsizers, like the Altima 3.5, down to HS as well. These cars have a huge power/weight advantage over what had been in HS previously. Not only better power, but they came with wider stock wheels and better stock suspension tuning. This effectively made almost all of the previously competitive HS cars non-contenders. No way that a stock Corolla or non-Si Civic will keep pace with a FiST or new Si given similar drivers. So now you have cars like the FiST and CSi not only as over-dogs within their class, but also general over-dogs because they got an even better overall scoring handicap.
They didn't really do much deck shuffling in 2016. Looking at '17, they finally put the FoST in the same class as the MPS3 and Turbo Cobalt SS. Not by moving it up to DS, but by moving those cars down from DS (where they were still competitive) to the slower GS class. They then shifted a few more GS cars down into HS, including the 500 Abarth. Oddly, the MkIV and V GTIs have stayed in GS.
Having formerly competed in HS with a regular economy car, the kind of car that the class was intended for, I think the recent class re-alignments have been especially terrible for that class. Several local members driving <160 hp economy cars have raised the idea of starting an IS class for the "traditional" HS cars that now can't really compete with the former GS cars that have been moved down. Beyond that, I, and others I'm sure, find it frustrating when drivers I was neck-and-neck with for years in adjusted time suddenly get "faster" purely because their car got bumped to a slower class with a better handicap.
Yay for CAM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIHMUCvYbeI
Not my best run or weekend - needed 200TW tires and stiffer springs for that course. My steering inputs seemed pretty jerky too.
Here's a local event that my dad went to two weeks later. Unfortunately I was already back at school. Looks like a fun location - circle track + in field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxcqihocxLg
Why ur tires so squeaky?
And what kind of CAMera do you use?
Quote from: MX793 on January 16, 2017, 12:36:27 PM
Looking at the SCCA rulebook for 2017. Whatever committee or person is responsible for determining what cars fall into what class needs some sense talked into them. Particularly in the lower end of the Stock classes (DS, GS, and HS). Instead of pushing class over-dogs up into a faster class, they are pushing everybody else down. It's left HS, the slowest stock class, with a huge number of eligible vehicles and with a huge range of capability. It's also made cars that could be reasonably competitive in that class, the types of cars that class was actually intended for, no longer viable. The practice is also hurting everyone else by handing a huge handicap boost to cars that were still very competitive with the handicap they had.
Back 6-7 years ago when I started, I felt the classes were generally appropriate. Looking back at the 2012 rule book:
HS was the economy car class. It was open to non-performance versions of Civics, Sentras, Proteges/Mazda3s, Corollas, 4-banger midsizers, base Mini... The slower generations of Civic Si (early 90s, late 90s, and EP3) were the only "performance" trim compacts really in this class, but weren't really over-dogs and were class appropriate. Also picked up some of the entry-level sport compacts like non-turbo DSMs. Only cars in that class with over 200 hp were Chrysler LH cars, which were full-size, heavy, and saddled with 4AT. Other than those, the typical Power/Weight ratio in that class was right around .05 hp/lb.
GS was the next class up and picked up cars that were more powerful or more specialized. FWD turbo DSMs, V6 midsizers, Preludes, 8th gen Civic Si, GTI (1.8T and 2.0T), Mazdaspeed Protege, Sentra SE-R. Most of the non-V8 pony cars (150-200 hp Mustangs and Camaros). 2.5 Imprezas were here too because they made a bit more power than much of the econo-car class and their AWD gave them an edge. Generally speaking, typical P/W was around .07 hp/lb.
DS was the intermediate GT car class. NA 6-cylinder/turbo-4 3-series, V6 versions of the late-model pony cars (now that they were making ~300 hp), G35/37, Lexus IS... Also the top dogs of the sport compact class. Mazdaspeed3, Integra type R, Mini Cooper S, AWD Turbo DSMs, WRX, R32 Golf, Cobalt SS Turbo. P/W was in the .08-.09 region.
It all kind of started with the Focus ST in 2013. Despite stacking up very well against something like the Cobalt SS Turbo or Mazdaspeed3 in DS, the SCCA put it in GS. Only explanation I have is that it was because the FoST didn't have a limited slip. The car was a serious over-dog in GS. I figured the SCCA would see their error and bump it up to DS where it belonged within a season or two.
They didn't do anything about it in '14. They did put the new Fiesta ST in GS as well, which I'd say belonged there more than the FoST. Given that the Cooper S was in DS and has similar specs to the FiST, I think it could have run in DS as well. 500 Abarth was also in GS, and I think that was a good fit.
Then in '15 they shuffled the classifications. But instead of moving the FoST up to DS, they moved a bunch of cars from GS down to HS. Notably, they moved the newer Civic Sis and the FiST down to HS. They also moved a bunch of the V6 Midsizers, like the Altima 3.5, down to HS as well. These cars have a huge power/weight advantage over what had been in HS previously. Not only better power, but they came with wider stock wheels and better stock suspension tuning. This effectively made almost all of the previously competitive HS cars non-contenders. No way that a stock Corolla or non-Si Civic will keep pace with a FiST or new Si given similar drivers. So now you have cars like the FiST and CSi not only as over-dogs within their class, but also general over-dogs because they got an even better overall scoring handicap.
They didn't really do much deck shuffling in 2016. Looking at '17, they finally put the FoST in the same class as the MPS3 and Turbo Cobalt SS. Not by moving it up to DS, but by moving those cars down from DS (where they were still competitive) to the slower GS class. They then shifted a few more GS cars down into HS, including the 500 Abarth. Oddly, the MkIV and V GTIs have stayed in GS.
Having formerly competed in HS with a regular economy car, the kind of car that the class was intended for, I think the recent class re-alignments have been especially terrible for that class. Several local members driving <160 hp economy cars have raised the idea of starting an IS class for the "traditional" HS cars that now can't really compete with the former GS cars that have been moved down. Beyond that, I, and others I'm sure, find it frustrating when drivers I was neck-and-neck with for years in adjusted time suddenly get "faster" purely because their car got bumped to a slower class with a better handicap.
I'll be running Versa S in HS. I don't expect to win anything.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 16, 2017, 01:42:36 PM
Why ur tires so squeaky?
And what kind of CAMera do you use?
Because they're DWS all seasons. :lol:
I forget what type of camera it is. Maybe a Polaroid? Got it for dirt cheap.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 16, 2017, 01:27:48 PM
Yay for CAM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIHMUCvYbeI
Not my best run or weekend - needed 200TW tires and stiffer springs for that course. My steering inputs seemed pretty jerky too.
Here's a local event that my dad went to two weeks later. Unfortunately I was already back at school. Looks like a fun location - circle track + in field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxcqihocxLg
That's a really fast, open course. I miss the days when we had access to large, paved plots like that. Can't run at any of the local active airports for security reasons. State fairgrounds had a decent sized lot, but they kept raising the rental fees until we could no longer afford it. We used to have access to an old abandoned Army air field that was state property (re-purposed for police and fire training) but then the state decided they didn't want to let us rent that anymore. Somebody recently bought it, so one of the regions is trying to see if we can get back in there. We did secure access to a police driving training course which is a 3-lane wide road course with a skidpad area for next season. Figure we can set up some slalom gates on the straights to keep speeds down. And when/if it ever gets finished, there's a big motorsport complex with a road course, dirt oval, and a dedicated autocross/drift pad being built nearby that we anticipate using. But the owner behind it has been saying "it'll be ready by October" for the past 5 years and all they've accomplished to date is moving some dirt around and grading the surface.
That's Grissom ARB in Indiana. The lot is an old "parking lot" for the planes but they only use the north side of the runway now. They rent out the pad to SCCA and NASA practically every weekend. Nice place. There's an underground building behind the starting line that hasn't been touched in 40 years. It'd be cool to sneak into it, but obviously it's off limits.
My local autox has some huge open venues. Versa S will see third gear, for sure.
Pretty excited to get the Civic out there again this year. I'm planning on upgrading the RSB and giving it a more aggressive alignment before the season starts as well to really get it moving.
It's too bad I can't use my camber bolts in stock (street) class, but at least I can add a rear sway bar.
I'll do some in SC... seems like they don't have that many events though...
Today was the 3rd event here but I haven't gone to any yet. First 2 were too cold and I just didn't think about it today. Next weekend is a double event, Sat + Sun. Gonna try to go to one of them. Need to swap my fuel pump before then and the car will be ready to go.
We don't even attempt to hold events until very late April at the earliest because of the threat of snow (supposed to get a foot or more over the next two days). Hell, last season, our first even was in mid-May and it was snowing/sleeting that day.
My dad is upgrading the brakes and wheels on his Camaro. Gonna have 275s all around, probably Rival S tires.
I'm looking at getting 200TW tires for the VW. Falken RT615k+ is only $100/tire in 205/50R15 and you get a $100 rebate. That's dirt cheap. With the new rear sway bar and sticky tires, I think it could give some people with 4x the HP a run for their money.
Can't find 7" wheels with the right backspacing for the VW. Oh well.
Did my first event of the year last weekend. No video unfortunately, but it was a decent track - long parking lot, so it was mostly slaloming down to the end, a big sweeper to turn around, and slaloming back.
(http://i.imgur.com/ctNp1xWl.jpg)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 15, 2017, 11:38:36 AM
My dad is upgrading the brakes and wheels on his Camaro. Gonna have 275s all around, probably Rival S tires.
I'm looking at getting 200TW tires for the VW. Falken RT615k+ is only $100/tire in 205/50R15 and you get a $100 rebate. That's dirt cheap. With the new rear sway bar and sticky tires, I think it could give some people with 4x the HP a run for their money.
What kind of springs/shocks you runnin on that thang brah
The VW? Don't know. Whatever the PO installed. Some sort of lowering struts up front, possibly from Topline. Rear is an adjustable torsion bar.
Camaro has 550 lb coils up front, 175 lb leafs in the rear with a modified mount. QA1 single adjustable shocks.
El Camino is QA1 coilovers all around, 650 lb front 300 lb rear.
I wanted to go to the Goodguys show in Del Mar but the semester was in full swing so I had to pass. Looks like everyone had a good time, however.
(http://i.imgur.com/khZnbCK.jpg)
lol those goddamn t rexes.
Apparently they're fast drivers. He won the truck class.
Also:
https://www.facebook.com/bill.kinsman/videos/1678601738822892/
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 15, 2017, 11:38:36 AM
My dad is upgrading the brakes and wheels on his Camaro. Gonna have 275s all around, probably Rival S tires.
This is gonna be fun.
(http://i.imgur.com/5IVBsmX.jpg)
:wub:
Our first event was scheduled for next weekend but was just canceled. Apparently the venue is in the midst of a change in ownership and confidence is low that everything will be sorted by next weekend. Good news is that the new owner is apparently receptive to our using the place, which is a good sign. We got booted from one of our staple venues (a local, dying shopping mall) after new ownership was uninterested in letting us rent their parking lot.
Now looking at May 21 for our first event, unless we get a quick reschedule of the cancelled event sometime before then. Might start looking at neighboring regions, but most of them are a pretty good drive (80+ miles) to get there and their venues aren't usually worth the drive. Smallish parking lots and resultant small courses.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 21, 2017, 06:59:28 PM
This is gonna be fun.
:wub:
Did you get to use them yet?
Quote from: MX793 on April 23, 2017, 08:49:10 AM
Our first event was scheduled for next weekend but was just canceled. Apparently the venue is in the midst of a change in ownership and confidence is low that everything will be sorted by next weekend. Good news is that the new owner is apparently receptive to our using the place, which is a good sign. We got booted from one of our staple venues (a local, dying shopping mall) after new ownership was uninterested in letting us rent their parking lot.
How many events do you do every year?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 23, 2017, 08:54:19 AM
How many events do you do every year?
We typically host 8 or 9 a season. I try to hit them all, but inevitably there's one I can't make for one reason or another. Best 6 count towards championship points, so I can afford to miss one (or 2) and still be in the points chase. I missed the first event last year because it was snowing that day and my tires are no bueno when the temperature is below 45F, let alone in the 30s and snowing.
There were 9 events on the calendar this season, one of which was a crossover event hosted by a neighboring region at one of their venues (we likewise host them at one of our venues). Crossover events pay points in both regions, so it's a little more worth the drive to attend since it counts towards a season points title. If I skip an event, though, it's usually that one since our neighboring region's main venue isn't anything special, it's a pretty long drive (and the only fast way to get there is a toll road), their entry fees are higher, and I usually end up not earning too many points (combination of higher overall skill in their region and much larger turnout) so it ends up being one of my dropped, low scoring events anyway. They used to run at better venues but, like us, they've struggled lately and lost their best venues. They used to run at Rochester Institute of Tech, which was a huge lot, and at the abandoned airfield at the old Seneca Army depot (we ran there too, awesome venue), but both venues decided they no longer wanted to allow SCCA to host events, or raised rental fees to a level we couldn't afford.
Also, the neighboring region takes things a little too seriously. I got a tongue lashing last year when I threw a red flag as a course worker because a car had cleaned out a wall of cones and workers were trying to get them set back up while the next car was coming in hot (starter failed to recognize a course issue and launched the next car). Sorry, I value my and other people's safety more than their event running uninterrupted with Swiss-clockwork-like efficiency...
We're hoping to be able to reschedule the cancelled event to later in the year so we still get 8 local events.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 23, 2017, 08:53:46 AM
Did you get to use them yet?
Nope - waiting on wheels. Hopefully it'll be ready to go in the next few weeks for the event we go to in Nashville.
Quote from: MX793 on April 23, 2017, 09:15:51 AM
We typically host 8 or 9 a season.
Interesting. Utah has 23 weekend booked this year, with a lot of those being Sat + Sun
Quote from: MX793 on April 23, 2017, 09:15:51 AM
We typically host 8 or 9 a season. I try to hit them all, but inevitably there's one I can't make for one reason or another. Best 6 count towards championship points, so I can afford to miss one (or 2) and still be in the points chase. I missed the first event last year because it was snowing that day and my tires are no bueno when the temperature is below 45F, let alone in the 30s and snowing.
There were 9 events on the calendar this season, one of which was a crossover event hosted by a neighboring region at one of their venues (we likewise host them at one of our venues). Crossover events pay points in both regions, so it's a little more worth the drive to attend since it counts towards a season points title. If I skip an event, though, it's usually that one since our neighboring region's main venue isn't anything special, it's a pretty long drive (and the only fast way to get there is a toll road), their entry fees are higher, and I usually end up not earning too many points (combination of higher overall skill in their region and much larger turnout) so it ends up being one of my dropped, low scoring events anyway. They used to run at better venues but, like us, they've struggled lately and lost their best venues. They used to run at Rochester Institute of Tech, which was a huge lot, and at the abandoned airfield at the old Seneca Army depot (we ran there too, awesome venue), but both venues decided they no longer wanted to allow SCCA to host events, or raised rental fees to a level we couldn't afford.
Also, the neighboring region takes things a little too seriously. I got a tongue lashing last year when I threw a red flag as a course worker because a car had cleaned out a wall of cones and workers were trying to get them set back up while the next car was coming in hot (starter failed to recognize a course issue and launched the next car). Sorry, I value my and other people's safety more than their event running uninterrupted with Swiss-clockwork-like efficiency...
We're hoping to be able to reschedule the cancelled event to later in the year so we still get 8 local events.
That sounds like a lot of fun. The very little autocross I've done I enjoyed a lot. It demands very high precision to do it well and the driver is more of a factor than the car compared to our track events IMO.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 23, 2017, 09:25:00 AM
Nope - waiting on wheels. Hopefully it'll be ready to go in the next few weeks for the event we go to in Nashville.
I don't know Nashville. I hear it's a worthwhile visit.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 23, 2017, 09:31:13 AM
Interesting. Utah has 23 weekend booked this year, with a lot of those being Sat + Sun
Bear in mind that the weather kind of limits us to 5 months. Our normal snow season runs from late November through early April, and it's quite rainy at either end of the snow season (it's rained 1 out of every 2 days this month). Going back to 2010, we've had at least 15 days (and as many as 20) of measurable rainfall each October. Toss in temperatures that are still fairly cool (highs in the 50s), and folks just aren't willing to come out and play. Standing out on course resetting cones when it's heavily overcast, steadily raining, and only in the low 50s kind of sucks.
We also don't have the kinds of venues that SLC has (and note that there is only one SCCA region in all of Utah and practically all of their events are in the SLC area, we have 6 regions in Upstate NY and at least one downstate). We don't have a big motorsports park like UMC. We instead have a smattering of half-mile dirt ovals with gravel and grass parking lots. We don't have a major sports stadium with massive, dedicated, paved lot or lots like the Maverick Center. Also, as bad as the roads are here due to weather, parking lots are worse. Calling some of them "paved" is a stretch, as they've crumbled to gravel. None of the local airports will let us run on the tarmac due to security concerns. We used to run on one of the large lots at the state fairgrounds, which is the closest we have to a convention center with dedicated, paved parking, but the rental costs went up to the point we couldn't afford it anymore. There was an abandoned airfield about 60 miles south that we (and a couple of neighboring regions, it was near the regional border for multiple regions) used to run at, but the owners were concerned over the wear and tear and decided they didn't want us running there anymore. Basically, the only paved lots large enough for us to run on are at shopping centers and malls, and those are open 7 days a week and unwilling to close off a large portion of their parking area on a weekend. Those that are want to charge us more than we can afford.
Wow, 6 regions in NY is impressive.
Do the regions coordinate weekends (intentionally or not) so that every week there's at least one region running an event?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 23, 2017, 09:32:18 AM
I don't know Nashville. I hear it's a worthwhile visit.
Highly recommend it! Always something fun going on there.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 23, 2017, 10:35:43 AM
Wow, 6 regions in NY is impressive.
Do the regions coordinate weekends (intentionally or not) so that every week there's at least one region running an event?
Not that I'm aware of. As it shakes out, you can probably find an event almost any weekend of the summer between the 6 regions. But there are enough instances of overlapping weekends that you'd be hard pressed to compete for a seasonal points title in multiple regions. Also, most regions have weak venues, so unless you're a serious die-hard, it's not worth the drive.
If I were to evaluate them by venue:
WNY (Buffalo area): They only have one venue, but it's a great one. New Era Field (the Bill's home stadium) has a huge paved lot. Unfortunately, it's a 150 mile drive from me and the only fast way to get there is a toll road (and over $6 in tolls each way). If it were more like 100 miles away, I'd make the drive.
FLR (Rochester area): They only have two venues. Their "main" venue, which is the one we ran at their OOR event last year, is at a community college. Not a huge lot, but in good condition and they have a separate lot for paddock space so they don't eat into the driving space. Size and shape doesn't really allow for long or fast courses and their course last year didn't seem like it took full advantage of what space they had. Runs were well under 30 seconds at the event I was at last year, and that seems typical based on results from other events there. I left feeling like it wasn't worth the 80 mile (each way) drive. Not sure I'll go to this year's OOR there unless I need points. Their other venue is what appears to be a pretty large lot at an old Xerox factory. If it's the one I think, it's a quarter mile long by over 250 ft wide. It's also closer than the community college, so I may check this one out this year if I'm free.
CNY (Syracuse area): 3 venues. One is a shifter kart track. I loved the place when I first started, but the risk of vehicle damage if you make a mistake, and the fact that it's always the same layout, has made it less appealing to me (and a number of others). Also really rough pavement in spots. This was the region's main venue for a couple of years and likely why attendance/membership took a dive over the past couple of years. The second is a shopping center parking lot at a former K-mart that's now being used as a satellite campus for a community college. Driving surface is in good condition and the shape allows for some fairly fast courses. About the same size as FLR's main venue, but longer and narrower. Depending on how space is used, I've seen courses that were solidly over 60 seconds or as short as 35 seconds. Paddock space is kind of tight unless you park on the main lot and shrink the driveable space. Nothing I'd drive an hour+ to go to, but it's only like a 20 minute drive from me. This was the region's main venue last year. Third venue is new for this year. It's a police performance driving training course. Basically a small road course (just under a mile long), 3 highway lanes wide, with a small skidpad area at one end. This is the primary venue this year and looks to be promising. I think layout options will be a little limited, but it will probably end up being like the courses that are run on the Pocono infield road coarse, which are FAST. Also, no hard obstacles at the edges of the pavement as found at the kart track.
Glen Region (Southern Finger Lakes): They have the Watkin's Glen paddock as their primary venue. Actually a pretty small patch of pavement. I think it's about 400x400, which is quite a bit smaller than WNY's, CNY's, or FLR's main venues. Other than the appeal of being on hallowed motorsport ground, not sure I'd bother making the drive. They also run at a decent-sized, albeit a little oddly shaped, lot at a college athletic facility and a medium sized mall parking lot.
SNY (Binghamton area): Their primary venue is a smallish lot at Binghamton U. Smaller than FLR's main venue. Not worth the ~85 mile drive. They also run at a mall parking lot (same mall that Glen runs at).
MoHud (Albany area): They have only one venue. It's a fairly small and weirdly shaped lot in Albany. Definitely not worth the ~150 mile drive.
Honestly 6-8 events is probably plenty for a season. I don't think many people go to all of the Utah events, just because real life gets in the way.
Just got back from helping with course setup at our new venue. I'm guessing times will be between 65 and 80 seconds per run, depending on car and driver, with no sections of the course repeated. Average speeds should be pretty high, too.
Map?
Quote from: MX793 on May 20, 2017, 03:33:21 PM
Just got back from helping with course setup at our new venue. I'm guessing times will be between 65 and 80 seconds per run, depending on car and driver, with no sections of the course repeated. Average speeds should be pretty high, too.
Nice. That's a very good length for autocross.
Quote from: Rich on May 20, 2017, 11:28:37 PM
Map?
State Police EVOC facility in Fulton.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/151+Flood+Dr,+Fulton,+NY+13069/@43.3458244,-76.3891451,845m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89d9dec1b1ed2721:0x3bfb1e28715c9402!8m2!3d43.3458244!4d-76.3869564 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/151+Flood+Dr,+Fulton,+NY+13069/@43.3458244,-76.3891451,845m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89d9dec1b1ed2721:0x3bfb1e28715c9402!8m2!3d43.3458244!4d-76.3869564)
Didn't do as well as I'd hoped. My tires just didn't have the grip and the weather worked against me. I was in the first run group, so the AM runs were on a track that was a little dusty/loose with no rubber down. Also somewhat cool. Temperatures were only in the low 60s in the AM and fairly overcast, so the track surface wasn't much warmer than the air. My tires seem to work best when it's hotter out. Then, as we took a break for lunch, it started to pour and continued raining, more fairly lightly, through the first half of my afternoon runs. It let up about halfway through, but by that point the track was thoroughly wet. We kindly dried it out to mildly damp in time for run group 2 to get a course nearly as good as the AM for their runs by their last runs of the day.
The lack of grip in the AM seemed to work against all the high-powered, RWD guys in general. There was a C7 Z51 that clearly was struggling to put power down. I think I ended up beating him in raw time, although he is a bit less experienced at cone courses than I am (he can beat my in raw time at the shifter kart track we run on). There was another guy in an E92 M3 that was also wagging the tail every time he tried to get on the power hard. He ended up clipping my time by about 1/8th of a second (our cars run in the same class). Said M3 pilot was a former professional/factory rally racer (apparently a former Greek national rally champion) who now instructs at a high performance driving school, so no shame in getting edged out by him.
Based on the GPS in my camera, the course length worked out to be just over .8 miles. My best time was a 71.16, which about where I figured I'd run. 78.x-80.x in the wet...
Compiling videos now. Will link when complete.
Best run of the day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fXSJtesM9E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fXSJtesM9E)
Best run in the wet (this was the driest I saw the track in the afternoon)
http://youtu.be/zK735GyIAhE (http://youtu.be/zK735GyIAhE)
I will say that the major downside(s) of a course that long is that it takes a while to walk (~15-20 minutes per walk-through if you take the time to eye up the lines and commit it to memory) and there's a lot to remember. Any time we've run a course over ~40 seconds, it usually entails a course that has multiple laps or otherwise has sections repeated, so you have less to remember. Also quicker to walk. Normal length courses only take like 6-7 minutes to walk through. I'll usually walk them 3-5 times in the AM before Driver's Meeting. With no repeated segments, there was a lot to try to remember. Also, since I run registration, I didn't have time to walk the course at all this morning (and I usually find time to get at least one walk in between closing registration and driver's meeting). I walked it like twice yesterday evening, but it wasn't the freshest in my memory ~16 hours later.
Oh man that thing is long ! I know that's all you guys have but I'm not a fan of that venue.
I'm not a fan of all the slaloms.
You were in Fulton and didn't use the dirt track instead?? Shame
:lol:
Quote from: 68_427 on May 21, 2017, 10:21:24 PM
You were in Fulton and didn't use the dirt track instead?? Shame
:lol:
There's a dirt track in like every town with more than 5,000 people in upstate.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on May 21, 2017, 08:35:32 PM
I'm not a fan of all the slaloms.
Utah SCCA loves slaloms too. A 3-4 cone slalom in a long course is cool but more than that gets boring.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 22, 2017, 09:38:27 AM
Utah SCCA loves slaloms too. A 3-4 cone slalom in a long course is cool but more than that gets boring.
Yea, to me the slalom is probably the most boring possible thing in an auto x
Quote from: MX793 on May 22, 2017, 09:02:27 AM
There's a dirt track in like every town with more than 5,000 people in upstate.
Fulton has roomy bleachers though for chillin
New tires worked splendidly (though pushed the driver's front hard and it got pretty scuffed). Same venue as before; still very slalom-heavy. Pulled a real rabbit out of the hat in my final run, knocking about 1.5 seconds off my previous best. I was surprised that it was not only my best run of the day, but so much better than my next best run. The first half of the run felt really sloppy. Felt like I was off line because I was pushing too hard and then having to slow down to correct. I'll need to watch a side-by-side of my in car footage to see where I made up the time. The last third of the run felt pretty well dialed and one of the guys working course (who was a damned good driver himself) gave me kudos after the event on how well I nailed the last stretch in my final run, but I don't think I shaved a full second off there.
My final run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DQ0XJPAEe8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DQ0XJPAEe8)
Better results than before, but that can in large part be attributed to several of the people who beat me previously not attending. Did manage to beat one person who beat me pretty handily last event (like .6 seconds in PAX). I believe I got him by about a quarter second this go around. He and I started racing the same time and have run pretty closely for years, so we have a friendly rivalry going. At one point, we were both running 1st gen Mazda3ses.
Also found out one of the people in my class from last event was mis-classed due to a misunderstanding in the rules. They were running AP2 S2K wheels on an AP1 in the Stock/Street class :nono:. They thought that because it was a factory S2K wheel, they were OK running it on the older generation car. They didn't realize the standard factory equipment rule for the stock class was model year (and trim) specific. If they get retro-actively re-classed, that would move me up a spot in the last event, though wouldn't really change my points situation since we score points based on how much slower your time was from the winner (sort of a percentage basis), not what position you placed. It's a new scoring system for this season. I have mixed feelings. Makes the mental math of figuring out your points situation at the end of the event a lot harder than position-based scoring where you know that finishing in a certain position always awards the same points.
That "Braking" indicator - are you actually pressing the brakes, or is that just an accelerometer sensing deceleration? I would think that you would want to *not* brake through slaloms so that you have more traction for turning?
<-- autoX virgin
The braking indicator is a decel meter, so engine braking will show up as "braking". Engine braking is ~.2G, so anything more than that on the decel meter is actual brake application.
If a slalom has decreasing spacing or transitions from a shallower offset to a deeper one, you need to decrease speed as you progress through, so I'll occasionally tap the brakes a bit in the slalom to adjust speed accordingly. Or to help settle the car if it's getting a little out of shape.
I'll tap the brakes a tad if the front end needs more weight on it after a couple cones. Otherwise I try to keep the throttle steady
Running at Goodguys Columbus this weekend. My dad got top 5 in his Camaro, with a 63.9 lap. Faster than the GT350 running today, which is still in the 64s
I just got a 75.0 in the VW. Could chop a couple tenths off still.
I did one lap in the Camaro - 67.something. I haven't driven it with the sticky tires before, so I got to explore the new limits. Damn it's fast. The 383 pulls like a freight train and the tires stick like glue.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on July 09, 2017, 08:30:33 AM
Running at Goodguys Columbus this weekend. My dad got top 5 in his Camaro, with a 63.9 lap. Faster than the GT350 running today, which is still in the 64s
I just got a 75.0 in the VW. Could chop a couple tenths off still.
Assuming it's a new GT350 and not a 1960s one, that's not surprising. Goodguys courses are super tight and slow.
This course was actually pretty fast for Goodguys. More transitional than technical. Very fun
Quote from: CaminoRacer on July 10, 2017, 09:43:29 AM
This course was actually pretty fast for Goodguys. More transitional than technical. Very fun
I think a GT350 would struggle on any Auto-x course, but Good guys, from what I've seen are especially tight. Saw some onboard footage from a GT350 at one of their events either from earlier this year or late last and he didn't even get out of first gear from what I recall.
Quote from: MX793 on July 10, 2017, 10:20:05 AM
I think a GT350 would struggle on any Auto-x course, bu Good guys, from what I've seen are especially. Saw some onboard footage from a GT350 at one of their events either from earlier this year or late last and he didn't even get out of first gear from what I recall.
It takes a quarter horse for those events, not a Thoroughbred.
How tall is first on a GT350, like 40mph? :lol:
Quote from: FoMoJo on July 10, 2017, 10:47:57 AM
It takes a quarter horse for those events, not a Thoroughbred.
The fast cars at the events are pure racecars. More power and more suspension than a stock Mustang, even a GT350R
Quote from: CaminoRacer on July 10, 2017, 02:17:38 PM
The fast cars at the events are pure racecars. More power and more suspension than a stock Mustang, even a GT350R
But they're race cars built for Auto-x, which means a unique setup compared to a car built for full size road courses.
Quote from: giant_mtb on July 10, 2017, 01:58:12 PM
How tall is first on a GT350, like 40mph? :lol:
Yeah, somewhere around there. 42 maybe?
EDIT: Looks like they'll do about 55 in 1st. They're geared a little taller in terms of mph/1000 RPM than the regular Mustang GT with 3.73 gears and they have an additional 1250 RPM to play with.
Anyone remember when a GM with a 4 speed auto would do like 70mph in second? :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on July 10, 2017, 03:18:42 PM
Anyone remember when a GM with a 4 speed auto would do like 70mph in second? :lol:
I think the ZR1 does over 60 in 1st. Pretty sure the regular Vette, and Camaro SS, with the MT will do 70, or near to it, in 2nd.
Quote from: MX793 on July 10, 2017, 03:15:44 PM
But they're race cars built for Auto-x, which means a unique setup compared to a car built for full size road courses.
The set up can be changed for road course. Just need to change the shock settings, maybe the sway bar. Everything is adjustable.
Neighboring SCCA region just lost their primary site (parking lot at a community college), which in turn wiped out about half their season. Also means we lost another of our events this season, since our final event of the season was scheduled to be an out-of-region, joint event at that site with our neighboring region hosting. Unless we find another event, we're now down to 7 for the season since we had to cancel our first event as well.
I'm getting bits and pieces of what happened off of Facebook. The initial story I heard, posted by one of their club officers, was that the school's administration didn't realize, after 3+ years, that the club was hosting auto-x events on the lot and canceled once they found out.
I got a slightly different story from another Facebook comment (which was pretty quickly deleted). Won't repeat it because it's completely unsubstantiated, but if true I think that it reflects kind of poorly on the club.
Someone made it on the CNY SCCA FB
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18156991_10154589592875875_4570353725069960024_n.jpg?oh=ff86d68161795cc876420f8810fc4ca4&oe=5A112865)
I might be able to do the August 27th event at Oswego County airport
I may have measurably shortened the life of my tires with this one...
http://youtu.be/BsvH3cZNbH8 (http://youtu.be/BsvH3cZNbH8)
Best run of the day
http://youtu.be/M6KnEgu7_40 (http://youtu.be/M6KnEgu7_40)
Quote from: MX793 on July 22, 2017, 03:41:29 PM
Best run of the day
http://youtu.be/M6KnEgu7_40 (http://youtu.be/M6KnEgu7_40)
No powerslides, no jumps? Did you at least weld your doors shut so you climb in and out of the car through the window?
I like how the tire smoke from the spin was still there on the way back
Utah Region is having an event on Monday for Labor Day :rockon:
I have done 0 autocrossing this year and its making me very sad.
I did a decent job today. I'm still getting used to the more wide open nature of SCCA events, so I got quicker every lap as I tested how much I could push the car without spinning. The new transmission is great - 1st is a little taller so I could stay in 1st most of the course, then shift into 2nd on the final straight/slalom. I finally got the shifter adjusted correctly last night, so the 1-2 shift was like butter. Very fun!
Last weekend's event was my worst of the season. I just couldn't seem to find any grip. Not sure if my tires have already heat cycled to the point where they are degrading (shouldn't be, they aren't gooey cheater tires) or if my pressures just weren't right, but something wasn't working.
No class title for me this year. Still have 3 events left, but the winner already has it mathematically locked. I'm in a close dogfight for 2nd, but that's the best I can possibly do.
Quote from: MX793 on September 04, 2017, 05:13:05 PM
Last weekend's event was my worst of the season. I just couldn't seem to find any grip. Not sure if my tires have already heat cycled to the point where they are degrading (shouldn't be, they aren't gooey cheater tires) or if my pressures just weren't right, but something wasn't working.
No class title for me this year. Still have 3 events left, but the winner already has it mathematically locked. I'm in a close dogfight for 2nd, but that's the best I can possibly do.
What car does thee winner have?
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 04, 2017, 05:28:44 PM
What car does thee winner have?
One of the Frizbee twins. It's less the car and more the driver. One of the better out-of-region drivers who decided to compete in our series as well as his home region. You know when someone is driving to a neighboring region (and running dedicated race tires) for every event, they take the sport seriously.
QuoteCookie Class
SCR has a regional class which has been named "Cookie Class" (CC). CC is open to all cars which would normally fit in at least one other SOLO class. There are no tire or modification restrictions. Winner of an event in CC must provide cookies for all CC competitors at the next event. Non "Cookie Class"competitors are not eligible for CC cookies.
Cookie Rules: Cookies must be at least 2 inches in diameter. Cookies must not be sugar free or gluten free. Alternate flours must be approved by the Cookie Class rules committee before submission.
I'm dying bruh
I like that. I don't care for most class rules (which is why I only do CAM)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 09, 2017, 10:12:46 AM
I like that. I don't care for most class rules (which is why I only do CAM)
Dude, CAM is way more restrictive that E Mod, which has been around for a long, long time (far longer than CAM). Bascially, anything that started life as a production vehicle and weighs over 1800 lbs qualifies. No limits on wheel widths, tire widths, tire compounds, engines swaps, engine mods, suspension mods.... I think the only limitations besides minimum weight would be some aerodynamic limitations (limits on wings and underbody ground effects that generate downforce).
Nobody runs E Mod though :huh:
CAMs few rules aren't very restrictive unless you make your own chassis. I'd rather run 200TW than slicks.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 09, 2017, 11:47:22 AM
Nobody runs E Mod though :huh:
CAMs few rules aren't very restrictive unless you make your own chassis. I'd rather run 200TW than slicks.
Practically every Cobra kit I've seen has run E-mod. Even with the intro of CAM, they predominantly favor E-Mod (even when running on street tires).
Enduro event. I would like this venue much better if there were more run-off before a car-eating obstacle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6JMUCwlVaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6JMUCwlVaw)
Quote from: MX793 on September 10, 2017, 04:21:31 PM
Enduro event. I would like this venue much better if there were more run-off before a car-eating obstacle.
Nice! That's tight. Especially because a small mistake means you are on the grass and if it's the rears under power almost certainly a spin. Like you said, too little runoff in many spots.
Good race day today. Best overall finish both in position and points this season. Best class finish in terms of position, but only 3rd best for points earned (points are scaled relative to the winner's time, the closer you are, the more points you get).
I've been in a very tight points race both in my class and for overall position all season with a driver who started the same time as I did and with whom I've had a friendly rivalry for several years now. I think today gave me the final upper hand. I was just under half a point down coming in, and leave with a ~1.7-1.8 point lead, which is the biggest gap the two of us have had all season. Only other time we were more than a point apart was after the 3rd event, when I had a 1.25 point lead in the standings. I, and he, don't expect the points order to change in the final event. We're both of the mind that it'll be one of our 3 "throw-away" events based on the competition that will be there.
Anything can happen, but the likelihood of my getting bumped backwards either in class or overall is very low.
Just found out the guy who won my class this past Sunday was running mods not permitted by the class and has been DQed, so I just picked up my first class win for the season and a corresponding points increase. Also stretches my class lead over my nearest competitor by a few hundredths of a point, which isn't much, but I'll take everything I can get.
Also moved up a spot in the overall for the weekend, but my overall championship points are unchanged.
Any ideas what the illegal modz were that got the guy DQ'd?
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 26, 2017, 05:12:31 PM
Any ideas what the illegal modz were that got the guy DQ'd?
No. Could have been wheels/tires (either wider than stock or <200TW), but don't know for certain. The driver self-reported to the event coordinator, who sent a message to myself and the other top-contenders in the class points chase.
Nice. Good to hear he was honest about it.
If it was wheels and/or tires, it may have been an honest mistake. I know the driver has multiple sets for their car, they may have forgotten to swap their class-legal set on before the event and realized after the fact.
Results from my autoX on Saturday have been posted. 33 of 75 in PAX, 49 of 75 in RAW.
https://scsportscar.com/solo/solo-results/2017-schedule-and-results/2017_e07/pax/
This was my first autocross since 2011. I think I could have gotten another 3 tenths with some more runs. With stickier tires maybe another .3. The DS class winner was on continental tires...I can't remember the model.
I might have to try some AUTO-X(TREME) next year
I should maybe consider a quicker rack :mask:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pssHVt7eDF7Cj6e3EDbfPpBWzEDcoNwK
lel
Was that cone glued to the tarmac? I've had cones dislodge fender liners, but that's the first time I've seen bodywork removed.
Losing a rear bumper probably made him violate his class rules
Looks like the cone is as annoyed by that color and body kit as I am.
Quote from: MX793 on March 12, 2018, 09:52:30 AM
Was that cone glued to the tarmac? I've had cones dislodge fender liners, but that's the first time I've seen bodywork removed.
Sounds like a good idea. Make 1 cone out of concrete and fasten it to the tarmac with a piece of re-rod.
Driver who finds it gets a free donut.
Quote from: Xer0 on March 12, 2018, 05:22:34 PM
Looks like the cone is as annoyed by that color and body kit as I am.
:lol:
Quote from: MX793 on March 12, 2018, 09:52:30 AM
Was that cone glued to the tarmac? I've had cones dislodge fender liners, but that's the first time I've seen bodywork removed.
I have no idea. I'm gonna blame the person who installed the bumper...
The 2nd event of the year is March 31st. I have to be somewhere at 1 pm but I think I'm gonna go for the morning heats and leave at lunch. (we do 2 run groups, both get a morning & afternoon heat of ~3 runs)
I just wanna race, even if I only get half a days worth for the same price.
Our first event is in May. The snow SHOULD all be gone by then. I hope.
That's about when all of ours is gone. At least as far as roads and parking lots are concerned.
Quote from: giant_mtb on March 23, 2018, 05:36:53 PM
That's about when all of ours is gone. At least as far as roads and parking lots are concerned.
Hoping both the snow is gone and we get some heavy rains to wash all of the sand off.
Actually, looking at the schedule, we don't have a single parking lot event. We've got a few at a Police EVOC training facility, several on a runway at an old Army base, and a couple on a small road course at a private motor club (think Monticello, but smaller and less expensive membership). Awesome set of venues.
A Leaf showed up at the regional event yesterday. Looked decent. I wonder how hard it is to hotrod.
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/04/autocrossing-a-chevrolet-volt-the-need-for-an-electrified-entry-level-performance-car/
One of our regulars has run a Volt. He normally runs a Cobra kit in EM, but when the forecast calls for rain, he'll run his Volt (in EM for the class points). On non-performance tires, no less.
Seneca Army Depot this weekend?
Quote from: Rich on June 08, 2018, 01:08:58 PM
Seneca Army Depot this weekend?
This weekend is the national tour event (which sold out well ahead of the event). Way out of my league and too serious for my liking.
Also need new front tires (again) after the double header there last weekend. Didn't cord them like last year, but one more event on aggressive concrete/pavement will. Definitely getting some RE71s and dedicated wheels. The Contis are a great tire, but I keep chewing up the shoulders on the fronts despite keeping tire pressures up. Not sure if I just need wider fronts to contend with the weight, more camber (not really adjustable on this car), or if the sidewalls are just too soft. I just can't afford to chew up front tires at the rate I am. Also, I'm getting my ass kicked by guys running 200TW Autocross rubber (Rivals, RE71s, Star Specs, etc).
Go next year after experience on the RE71s. I think it'd be fun to run a National tour event. I've seen the times in DS and there's a 10s+ spread for the weekend 1st to last. Not too bad. I think you'd do ok
Quote from: MX793 on June 08, 2018, 02:48:49 PM
This weekend is the national tour event (which sold out well ahead of the event). Way out of my league and too serious for my liking.
Also need new front tires (again) after the double header there last weekend. Didn't cord them like last year, but one more event on aggressive concrete/pavement will. Definitely getting some RE71s and dedicated wheels. The Contis are a great tire, but I keep chewing up the shoulders on the fronts despite keeping tire pressures up. Not sure if I just need wider fronts to contend with the weight, more camber (not really adjustable on this car), or if the sidewalls are just too soft. I just can't afford to chew up front tires at the rate I am. Also, I'm getting my ass kicked by guys running 200TW Autocross rubber (Rivals, RE71s, Star Specs, etc).
How much camber do you have now? The sticky tires seem to want at least -2 degrees.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 08, 2018, 03:10:10 PM
How much camber do you have now? The sticky tires seem to want at least -2 degrees.
Whatever it came with from the factory. Doesn't appear to be any way to adjust it and still stay FS-legal. The OE Pirellis, which had harder sidewalls, didn't have their shoulders chewed up like I've experienced with these Contis. I blamed the first set of Contis on running them a bit too soft at one event. Figured the sidewalls rolled from being soft. Made sure to bump my pressures up since, but still rolling onto the shoulder even at over 40 psi.
You need CAMber ;)
Quote from: Rich on June 08, 2018, 02:54:49 PM
Go next year after experience on the RE71s. I think it'd be fun to run a National tour event. I've seen the times in DS and there's a 10s+ spread for the weekend 1st to last. Not too bad. I think you'd do ok
Looked at the results. Based on where people I've competed against ended up, I would've finished somewhere around 230 out of the 250ish entries. Would've been dead last in class, 2.5 PAX seconds off the next car and 11+ seconds off the class winner. Yeah, glad I didn't waste my time/money.
Wish I had time to go watch
Just ordered up a set of RE-71s on OZ Leggera HLTs. 265 wide fronts and 285 wide rears (up from 255 and 275). The OZs are the exact same size as the factory wheels, right down to the offsets, so no issue staying FS compliant. 10 lbs lighter per corner than the factory wheels, too. They were on clearance, which brought the price down to not too much more than getting another set of Mustang Performance Pack wheels.
Unfortunately, I lost a bit of overall diameter (~3% smaller), so I'll be hitting the rev limiter in 2nd (or using 3rd) even more often. Really wish there was more selection of 200TW tires in larger sizes. Selection for 19"+ diameter wheels is super limited and almost nothing if you're looking to maintain a 27"+ overall diameter tire. Sucks for the pony cars because we're stuck having to pick tires that are smaller overall diameter than factory.
Sounds like the firmer sidewalls are less prone to rolling over and resulting in the burned up shoulders I've been seeing on the Contis. Hoping I can get the remainder of this season and a whole season after that on these because they're kind of pricey.
Event next weekend, so I'm stoked to see if these give me better results. I've been frustrated with my finishes this season. I've been the fastest guy on legitimate street tires, but when half the field shows up on 200TW gumballs and most of them are of comparable experience and skill, it's hard to pull off much better than a mid-pack finish.
They're here...
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2em1zio.jpg)
Gonna daily them the next couple of days to scrub off the mold release so they're ready to rock this weekend. Didn't think I'd like the dark silver as much as I do. The black wheels kind of gave the car a bit of a Bullitt vibe, but these work. Would work even better if the tires were the same overall diameter as OE so the wheel gap wasn't quite as big... Function over form, though. I was a little scared about going wider on the front tires because there wasn't much clearance between the tire and the strut with the 255s (I'd guess ~10mm), but these still have enough gap that I'm not worried about rubbing. Probably could have gotten away with 275s up front.
Looking good.
:rockon:
Lovely color on your Mustang..
Wrapped the season today. Thought I was going to have to miss this one due to an oil leak that suddenly appeared earlier this week, but I was able to find and fix that issue myself pretty easily. Ran on a private road course (Baby Monticello type of country club) with a few cones placed to keep the speeds down to a more Auto-X appropriate level (I think I might have been hitting 65-70 at the fastest point). Also cut out the main straightaway, so you started at the end of the main straight (at pit road exit) and finished one turn before the start of the straight (a bit before pit road entrance). Tons of elevation change at this place, which is a huge difference from cones in a parking lot or runway. Definitely strange coming off a corner and seeing the road just drop away as you charge over a blind crest. Unfortunately, I forgot my dash cam... Here's a video of somebody else running the full, unaltered course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wKy4WOhJUg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wKy4WOhJUg)
The camera doesn't do the drop off after/in Turn 4 justice. With that big pony car nose out in front, my first couple of runs before I figured out how to place the car were a little intimidating. That and trusting the car to stick under power as the road is falling away and you're still turning slightly. The Mustang felt really composed, though. It felt better suited to the more flowing bends of a course like this than the tighter, wheel-sawing slaloms of a traditional auto-x (though, as noted, we threw in a couple of offsets/chicanes on some of the longer straights). I left the ESC on in sport mode just to be safe, but I'm not sure I ever really felt it kick in.
Somehow managed to pull a pretty decisive class win. When I saw the entry list, I saw a really fast driver from our neighboring region in a Focus RS and figured he'd be a shoe-in to win the class. When I ran against him last year, he beat me by a couple of seconds every time, which is huge on a ~1 minute course. I do have better tires now, but the tires I had last year were nothing to scoff at, either. I was basically of the mindset that I'd be happy if I could keep within a second of him. At the end of the morning runs, I was only trailing him by .001. I figured he'd find some more time in the afternoon heats and pull away, I ended up shaving off considerably more time than he did, finishing with a pretty comfortable ~.6 second margin of victory.
Between a solid win today and a dominating win a couple of weeks ago, I put a bow on the class title. Good thing I was able to fix my car and run, because if I hadn't been there, my main rival in the class championship would have scored enough points to overtake me.
Nice going.
Congrats!!!!! Excellent.
You are too modest. To win your class took some very good skills.
:cheers:
Congratulations!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYTnFLevN5g
I've registered for my first national event in March. 3 hours into registration and 122 have signed up so far
Quote from: Rich on January 30, 2019, 08:21:13 PM
I've registered for my first national event in March. 3 hours into registration and 122 have signed up so far
Yeah, but which car?
The 86. The Miata has a bunch of frame braces that basically puts me in one of the Mod classes :rolleyes:
(https://i.imgur.com/asOPY4p.jpg)
Randy made an appearance at the Dixie region autocross here in GA
In a pretty dinged up 997. I think it has some kind of suspension mods as well
Quote from: Rich on February 03, 2019, 09:52:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/asOPY4p.jpg)
Randy made an appearance at the Dixie region autocross here in GA
In a pretty dinged up 997. I think it has some kind of suspension mods as well
No class indicated on the car? Hope you protested him.
They have a run time only class. I'm guessing he's in it
I'm also getting creamed by an old guy in a cooper S who arguably is at Randy's level since he's only a couple seconds off the Porsche and a good 4 seconds ahead of most of us.
There's also a civic type r that's killing me but hopefully the SCCA throws it into a higher class soon.
Quote from: Rich on February 03, 2019, 10:01:31 AM
They have a run time only class. I'm guessing he's in it
That's my kind of class. I don't like all the class rules.
Quote from: Rich on February 03, 2019, 10:03:05 AM
I'm also getting creamed by an old guy in a cooper S who arguably is at Randy's level since he's only a couple seconds off the Porsche and a good 4 seconds ahead of most of us.
There's also a civic type r that's killing me but hopefully the SCCA throws it into a higher class soon.
How many BRZ/FRS/86s are there?
2 others running now in DS. I think a couple more in STX. I don't know what times they are running
Quote from: Rich on February 03, 2019, 10:03:05 AM
I'm also getting creamed by an old guy in a cooper S who arguably is at Randy's level since he's only a couple seconds off the Porsche and a good 4 seconds ahead of most of us.
There's also a civic type r that's killing me but hopefully the SCCA throws it into a higher class soon.
Ha! SCCA moving a car into a HIGHER class? The trend has been to keep shoving fast cars down into slower classes. Practically all of what was G a couple of years ago is now in H. Cars that were legit H class cars like regular Civics, Mazda3s, base Minis are just not even competitive anymore when you have Civic SIs and Fiesta STs playing in that class. A lot of what was D is now in G.
http://live.dixiescca.com/
Quote from: Rich on February 03, 2019, 10:03:05 AM
I'm also getting creamed by an old guy in a cooper S who arguably is at Randy's level since he's only a couple seconds off the Porsche and a good 4 seconds ahead of most of us.
There's also a civic type r that's killing me but hopefully the SCCA throws it into a higher class soon.
What are you driving?
Quote from: MX793 on February 03, 2019, 10:11:10 AM
Ha! SCCA moving a car into a HIGHER class? The trend has been to keep shoving fast cars down into slower classes. Practically all of what was G a couple of years ago is now in H. Cars that were legit H class cars like regular Civics, Mazda3s, base Minis are just not even competitive anymore when you have Civic SIs and Fiesta STs playing in that class. A lot of what was D is now in G.
On that note, I just took a look at the 2019 rules draft for what cars they shuffled to what classes... W T F
Spoiler alert: No, they aren't moving the CTR up to a faster class with the cars it would normally compete with like the Golf R, STI, Lancer Evo, or Focus RS. They moved all of those cars down into D to join it. I'm actually kind of surprised they didn't punt the CTR down to G and then punt the current CSi down to H with the previous generation CSis.
'16+ Audi TTS moved from A to B
pre-'16 Audi TTS moved from B to D
'16-'17 Focus RS moved from B to D (for some reason the '18 stays in B?)
Lancer Evo moved from B to D
Audi S3 moved from B to D
VW Golf R ('15+) moved from B to D
WRX STI from B to D
350Z from C to D
370Z from A to B
981 ('13-'16) Coxster (base models only) moved from A to C
981 Coxster S and GTS moved from SS to A
S2000 moved from B to C
2002-2008 WRX moved from D to G
Camaro SS 1LE Moved from A to B
Shelby GT350 moved from A to B
E46 3-series (non-M) moved from D to G
IS300 moved from D to G
Only car I see moved up a class is the Mustang GT w/ PP2 option, which goes from F to A. Yes, that's right, the PP2 Mustang GT is in a faster class than either the GT350 or the Camaro SS 1LE...
They must have moved the S2000 more than a few times; it was moved from B to C when I owned one.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 03, 2019, 05:35:23 PM
They must have moved the S2000 more than a few times; it was moved from B to C when I owned one.
I only have rulebooks going back to '13, but they've been in B since at least that long, with the CR models being in A. Looking back through the online results archive, looks like they may have been in A back in '09. Unless the entrant actually had a CR and that just wasn't recorded in the "Car" field for the results file. There was also somebody running a CR model that year who ran in A.
Quote from: MX793 on February 03, 2019, 05:52:47 PM
I only have rulebooks going back to '13, but they've been in B since at least that long, with the CR models being in A. Looking back through the online results archive, looks like they may have been in A back in '09. Unless the entrant actually had a CR and that just wasn't recorded in the "Car" field for the results file. There was also somebody running a CR model that year who ran in A.
In '03 it was moved from B to C.
They should just come up with a calculated point system. Drive wheels, tire compound + mm/lb, power to weight
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 04, 2019, 05:39:51 AM
They should just come up with a calculated point system. Drive wheels, tire compound + mm/lb, power to weight
That's basically what they do, but there's a lot more to it than that. What about weight distribution and engine placement? Suspension type? Limited slip vs open diff? The general tuning of the factory suspension (a base V6 Mustang isn't going to hang with an E46 M3...). Classing aside, there's a handicap system based on class so cars across classes (or in mixed classes like pro or novice) can compete head to head. They consider things like drivetrain layout, power, weight, wheel size, and overall capabilities and class accordingly. Part of the "problem" now is that newer cars are so much more capable over the past few years that they've had to push the fast cars of a couple of years ago down to slower classes to keep them competitive. The trickle down effect has basically shit on the folks who were driving the slowest sets of cars, like the economy car segment, because there were no slower classes to push those cars down to. So the folks running regular Focuses, Civics, or Mazda3s are now classed with Fiesta STs, 8th gen Civic SIs, and Fiat Abarths. What they need is a new "slow car" class. Also hurts people like me running the "muscle car" class because as fast cars move to slower classes with more favorable handicaps, my own handicap has stayed largely the same. My car is no slower compared to a Lancer Evo this year than it was last, but the Evo just saw a significant improvement in it's handicap while mine stayed the same (got a little worse, actually).
There are a lot of classes because the sport has to accommodate a lot of different cars. And that's before you get into the modifications.
Autocross series like Good guys can get away with fewer classes because
1. They are a "hot rod" organization so the expectation is that nobody is running stock
2. They restrict the eligible vehicle to street-legal, American made, and pre 1987.
I did pretty good on the stock tires up in Atlanta (2nd in class of 4). The forecast was calling for what would have been standing water so I didn't want to waste the RE71R's on a weekend trip to the city just for a half day of standing water autocross. By the last run it ended up almost dry and I think I could have kept up if the RE71r were on
http://live.axti.me/results/EJ2iEPKrI
And I got annihilated down in south GA by a Civic Type R (2nd place in class of 4). If I drove my car better I think it was capable of beating the Type R's time. I was on the RE71r's down there.
http://www.dixiescca.com/2019results/Dixie2019-01_FINAL.pdf
At the Dixie champ tour getting my butt woooped
Find your center. Visualize the taste of victory.
Our first event got canceled because of snow. March is probably too early anyway. I wasn't gonna go because I didn't want to stand around in 40 degree weather (at best, and it was actually colder)
We stopped attempting to schedule anything before May. Even then, we've had snow (or temperatures cold enough for snow) at our opening event...
Had a good event out at Utah Motorsports Campus today (formerly Miller)
The Midway lot we were using is very long and narrow, so it takes some creativity to figure out a course that doesn't just turn into a slalom the entire way down and back. Today was a figure 8 type course that was very fast and technical. Guys with bigger cars just had to send it and hope for the best when it came to hitting cones. I enjoyed it a lot. The RE-71R grip is awesome so I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.
This was my fastest time but I hit a cone:
https://youtu.be/Dw3gZIbHztQ
My last run was a bit slower but no cones, so it's my best lap:
https://youtu.be/2VTeaulNocM
That's sick, man. Is it sometimes hard to follow those courses? I find myself wondering sometimes how people don't just fuck up and go the wrong way. Like I can tell that they lay cones out to make it at least a bit intuitive, but damn. I feel like half my brain power would be focused on where TF I'm supposed to turn next. I assume you get practice/walk time?
You get to walk the course in the morning before it starts. That's super important to do, although once you're in the car and going fast it can still be tough. Lots of people get lost or go off the course, especially on their first few runs. My second run was a DNF because I completely skipped a corner at the beginning and went straight for the next cone. :lol:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 21, 2019, 02:37:58 PM
This was my fastest time but I hit a cone:
https://youtu.be/Dw3gZIbHztQ
My last run was a bit slower but no cones, so it's my best lap:
https://youtu.be/2VTeaulNocM
I assume 2nd gear the whole time, and I thought you were going to hit the guy on the fence, cool beans dooood.
mang i miss autoxin, but im thinkin aboit drag racin
Quote from: giant_mtb on April 21, 2019, 02:41:08 PM
That's sick, man. Is it sometimes hard to follow those courses? I find myself wondering sometimes how people don't just fuck up and go the wrong way. Like I can tell that they lay cones out to make it at least a bit intuitive, but damn. I feel like half my brain power would be focused on where TF I'm supposed to turn next. I assume you get practice/walk time?
The local autocross group in my area, Chicago, does a yearly event for newbies were you go over the basics and run a course that's a bit shorter than average. Think 30 seconds to complete instead of 50-60 seconds for the regular season. Anyway, a couple years ago when I participated in it there was this hot shot in a brand new M3 that brought his girlfriend with him and his first run he instantly got lost in the course. It was pretty embarrassing :lol: Point is it happens, but honestly its pretty hard to get lost if you're always looking a turn or two ahead and not just what's in front of you. Plus you walk the course a couple times and if you're running any group but the first one, you should have a good idea of the layout.
I'm far more likely to forget the course layout when I'm not in the first run group. I typically work timing, so I'm not as focused on watching cars on course. I also run registration, so I'm lucky to get more than one walk-through in the morning. I find I need at least 3 walkthroughs to really commit a course to memory. I started helping with course setups the day before just so I'd get more time walking the course.
Makes sense. I'm not very consistent with going, maybe a couple times a year, so my assignment is on the course itself and picking up cones. You get familiar with the course real quick when you're out there watching the runs.
Do these layouts ever involve backing up?
Not that I'm aware of. The course is laid out so that there are usually 3 cars running it at any given time with about 20 seconds or so separating them. It always needs to be moving forward in the same direction or you'll have lots of problems.
I was wondering whether it was similar to gymkhana courses. I used to go and watch a few of them at one time.
Quote from: FoMoJo on April 22, 2019, 07:34:05 AM
Do these layouts ever involve backing up?
Only when you run over the timing lights. :mask:
If courses included having to reverse, I can think of several vehicle classes that would no longer be able to compete. Karts and most/all motorcycle-powered formula cars (F440, F500, FSAE) don't have reverse gears.
Quote from: MX793 on April 22, 2019, 10:14:08 AM
If courses included having to reverse, I can think of several vehicle classes that would no longer be able to compete. Karts and most/all motorcycle-powered formula cars (F440, F500, FSAE) don't have reverse gears.
It was kind of neat though. It wasn't so much about speed, more about control and consistency. You could power out of the reverse box though.
Quote from: FoMoJo on April 22, 2019, 07:34:05 AM
Do these layouts ever involve backing up?
That's gymkhana, which has gotten pretty rare these days.
Gymkhana is like auto-x on meth with a hit of weed to keep you focused.
Quote from: Xer0 on April 21, 2019, 09:43:45 PM
The local autocross group in my area, Chicago, does a yearly event for newbies were you go over the basics and run a course that's a bit shorter than average. Think 30 seconds to complete instead of 50-60 seconds for the regular season. Anyway, a couple years ago when I participated in it there was this hot shot in a brand new M3 that brought his girlfriend with him and his first run he instantly got lost in the course. It was pretty embarrassing :lol: Point is it happens, but honestly its pretty hard to get lost if you're always looking a turn or two ahead and not just what's in front of you. Plus you walk the course a couple times and if you're running any group but the first one, you should have a good idea of the layout.
I love hotshot newbies with fast cars. A few years ago, I attended an event at our neighboring region. A guy with a Viper showed up. Attracted a bit of a crowd since we don't usually see a lot of high end stuff. He was a short way behind me during morning coursewalk and I overheard him telling the people he was walking with that he'd never autocrossed, but has done some track days so this should be a breeze. He finished 110 out of 112 in raw and handicapped time. Only cars that ran slower raw times were a couple of little kids (like under 8 years old) in mini karts that were governed to like 15 mph. I watched one of his runs and it was slow. Overconfident Viper guy quit and went home after morning runs.
Track and auto-x are soooooo differet. Auto-X is so much more rapid and intense. Sounds like a douchebaggggg.
I never liked auto-x as I always had issues with trying to figure out where the course was among the sea of cones at our crappy laid out parking lots.
But put it on something like a go-kart track and it's impossibly fun. With slower speeds you can try much more maniacal driving moves then on a large track.
Quote from: MX793 on April 22, 2019, 05:04:40 PM
I love hotshot newbies with fast cars. A few years ago, I attended an event at our neighboring region. A guy with a Viper showed up. Attracted a bit of a crowd since we don't usually see a lot of high end stuff. He was a short way behind me during morning coursewalk and I overheard him telling the people he was walking with that he'd never autocrossed, but has done some track days so this should be a breeze. He finished 110 out of 112 in raw and handicapped time. Only cars that ran slower raw times were a couple of little kids (like under 8 years old) in mini karts that were governed to like 15 mph. I watched one of his runs and it was slow. Overconfident Viper guy quit and went home after morning runs.
If you see a guy with a light blue Lincoln MKZ in the fingerlakes region tell him sweet ride grandpa.
https://youtu.be/QOPJFUIPDCo
https://youtu.be/2N2iJxW33FE
HS? That's bullshit. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on September 23, 2019, 01:19:47 PM
HS? That's bullshit. :thumbsup:
Fiesta ST is the dominate car in that class. Similar HP to the Bolt, less torque, but also less weight. I think they're pretty similar overall.
No engine noise, only tire squealing!
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 23, 2019, 01:30:40 PM
Fiesta ST is the dominate car in that class. Similar HP to the Bolt, less torque, but also less weight. I think they're pretty similar overall.
Fiesta ST shouldn't be in H, either. But they keep punting faster cars into slower classes. You used to be able to show up in a stock Corolla or non-Si Civic with decent tires and at least have a chance in H. Those were the kinds of cars H was intended for. Not anymore.
Next mods: Hoosiers, flux capacitor, drain pipe RSB.
RE-71Rs would be the tire of choice. Hoosiers would bump me out of street class.
https://youtu.be/TUJW0ayd81E
I want to see the slowest run with doritoes.
No doritoes this time. I did drift the last sweeper a couple of times.
Event #2 of 2021 is on Saturday! I skipped the first one because it was freezing & raining. More like Winter-X than Auto-X.
El Camino is mid-transmission swap right now, so this will be the Miata's time to shine.
Got 10 runs today, 6 in the morning and 4 in the afternoon. I got progressively better each run, as I got used to the car. I was in 3rd place out of 3 Miatas in C Street until the last run, when I dropped 0.6 seconds and took 1st place. Not bad for the first event in this car :rockon:
For raw time I was 28th out of 78, PAX was 20th.
This is one of my runs from the morning heat, but I went like 2 seconds faster in the afternoon when the camera was off.
https://youtu.be/NfGXfP--B_I
Looking fast! What camera are you running? Does it support an external-connected mic to pick up more engine sounds?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 04, 2021, 10:55:00 AM
This is one of my runs from the morning heat, but I went like 2 seconds faster in the afternoon when the camera was off.
https://youtu.be/NfGXfP--B_I
Looks like fun.
Quote from: Speed_Racer on April 05, 2021, 09:49:44 AM
Looking fast! What camera are you running? Does it support an external-connected mic to pick up more engine sounds?
I've got a $50 faux-pro from Amazon right now. I'm looking into buying an actual GoPro sometime soon. An external mic would be great, since any camera view outside the car always has ridiculous wind noise.
FauxPro, I love it :lol:
I found a nail in my tire already :rage:
Pretty close to the edge, probably not patchable. Hopefully it's not actually leaking. I pulled it out, and it might not have pierced all the way through. It was kinda sideways through the tread.
That stinks. I had to replace a brand new tire once that had a spike go through the sidewall when I was going through some tall grass. I got lucky and the tire shop replaced it for free on a road hazard warranty.
I wouldn't be as worried if it wasn't for the fact that these tires are discontinued, so I probably can't find a replacement in stock anywhere. I'd have to replace at least 2 of the tires with some Falken RT660's or something.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 12, 2021, 03:49:49 PM
I wouldn't be as worried if it wasn't for the fact that these tires are discontinued, so I probably can't find a replacement in stock anywhere. I'd have to replace at least 2 of the tires with some Falken RT660's or something.
What tire?
Quote from: MX793 on April 12, 2021, 04:03:17 PM
What tire?
RE-71R
215/45/17
Not available from Tire Rack anymore. I bought them on clearance in February, didn't think about the potential need for replacements.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 12, 2021, 04:15:45 PM
RE-71R
215/45/17
Not available from Tire Rack anymore. I bought them on clearance in February, didn't think about the potential need for replacements.
Just that size? I need a new set of autox tires and RE71s were the only ones close to my OE tire size...
Quote from: MX793 on April 12, 2021, 04:22:45 PM
Just that size? I need a new set of autox tires and RE71s were the only ones close to my OE tire size...
All RE's are being discontinued for some reason. IDK what Bridgestone is thinking.
Have you checked the Falken RT660 sizes? Looks like they have decent selection for 18s and 19s
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 12, 2021, 04:57:16 PM
All RE's are being discontinued for some reason. IDK what Bridgestone is thinking.
Have you checked the Falken RT660 sizes? Looks like they have decent selection for 18s and 19s
Well shoot...
Last I checked, Falken only had my front size. Problem is nobody makes 275/40R19. RE71s came in 285/35, which fits the rim and was as close as I could get to the original diameter.
Quote from: MX793 on April 12, 2021, 05:00:22 PM
Well shoot...
Last I checked, Falken only had my front size. Problem is nobody makes 275/40R19. RE71s came in 285/35, which fits the rim and was as close as I could get to the original diameter.
I'm guessing you have a 9" wide rim and 295/35 is too wide?
That's rough. Call up Falken and ask for a 285/35
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 12, 2021, 05:45:09 PM
I'm guessing you have a 9" wide rim and 295/35 is too wide?
That's rough. Call up Falken and ask for a 285/35
9.5 on the rear. 285 is the widest that fits.
I could put a 275/35 on there, but that's a 5% hit to diameter. The car barely does 60mph in 2nd with stock size and I regularly hit the governor at our typical venues. Hate having to shift more than the initial 1-2 in a run.
I may just have the bite to bullet and settle for 275/35s. 4% smaller than factory, but the 285/35s are 3%. What's .6 mph?
275/35 will also fit on the 9" front wheels. Not sure if they'll clear the struts, though. They should. I've got just under half an inch of static clearance with 265s and 275 would be less than 1/4" closer...
My tire is holding air, looks like the nail didn't go all the way through. Yay.
I bought a GoPro Hero8 Black yesterday. Here's some glorious 4k footage of my fastest lap. It was good enough for first place for a few minutes, but I got beat by a tenth shortly after. Still have a lot of work to do learning to drive this car. And maybe an external mic to decrease the wind noise :lol:
https://youtu.be/S3Hhg5n8XLU
Wow. Quality of the video is great. Are GoPros still outrageously priced? I haven't looked into them in years
Yeah they're still a few hundred bucks.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 18, 2021, 11:23:39 PM
My tire is holding air, looks like the nail didn't go all the way through. Yay.
I bought a GoPro Hero8 Black yesterday. Here's some glorious 4k footage of my fastest lap. It was good enough for first place for a few minutes, but I got beat by a tenth shortly after. Still have a lot of work to do learning to drive this car. And maybe an external mic to decrease the wind noise :lol:
https://youtu.be/S3Hhg5n8XLU
You might shave a few hundredths off if you had a hard top.
I got a wind SLAYER foam cover for the GoPro, seems to help a lot.
This weekend's course was pretty tough. It was a cold morning and the tires never got great grip until the afternoon. I hit a lot of cones (not typical for me) and had to just get a some decent clean run times, so I ran pretty wide for my last 2 runs. Came in 3rd this time.
https://youtu.be/iNIZLIKntK4
Nice! Sounds is much improved too.
I was hoping to be out at UMC that day as well for some motorcycling, but house projects have gotten in the way of prepping the Triumph for track time
Yeah it was a busy day out there. Motorcycle track day, cars and coffee, autocross, off road experience thing, etc.
It was hot and sunny today, which sucks for standing around chasing cones, but it was great to finally have hot tires and enjoy the grip.
I wasn't pushing the car hard enough through the slaloms enough for most of the day. The last 2 runs I figured it out more and took 1st place in CS. Still gotta work on my hand position and smoothing out my inputs. I drive the El Camino like I'm wringing it's neck, but this car likes to be smooth.
https://youtu.be/saRRWDvm35U
https://youtu.be/TvNKHEBETNY
Got 2nd this weekend by 0.070 seconds.
I didn't record my last & fastest run, but this was my second fastest. I shaved 3 tenths off for my fastest. The bumper view is nice to get a better sense of the speed, although the over the should view is better for improving my technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpV-7Vn2tqI
Only my 2nd event this year. Weather has been cooler and rainier so I haven't bothered going to many yet. Today was nice though!
https://youtu.be/fOY5yVvLsow
So much fun! Competing against a lot of Camaros.
Snagged 1st place today :praise: Right at the end, I dropped ~1.3 seconds on my last run. Wasn't pushing hard enough or looking far enough ahead on my earlier runs. Partially because the asphalt was slick and I didn't trust the tires. Once I had a few runs, I could finally trust the grip enough to push it and not be worrying in the back of mind about spinning out. My RE-71Rs can still get sticky, but they take a while to warm up. Probably almost heat cycled out.
Nice
:ohyeah:
Fresh Yokohama A052 tires are fantastic. Love the grip
https://youtu.be/9t66Tbj_PaE
looks fun, I want to try this some day but I'm too lazy to look it up