Spotted today at the local BMW dealership. Hot. :mrcool:
Also, I am going to testdrive an M3 in February 2008 when the dealer gets delivery of one. I can't wait! :rockon:
Sorry for the poor picture quality. My Nikon is still in the shop. :lockedup:
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/614/bmwm301fh7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
By cawimmer430 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/cawimmer430)
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By cawimmer430 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/cawimmer430)
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By cawimmer430 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/cawimmer430)
What a stunner! I wouldn't have thought white would look so good on it; generally I'm not a fan of white cars.
Looks good, but white's got to be my least favorite color on that car.
I wish there was a Lexus IS-F in the showrrom. At least you guys would have something to laugh about when you saw it next to the M3. :devil:
^Where's Treppy?^ :devil: :devil: :devil:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 19, 2007, 12:13:16 PM
I wish there was a Lexus IS-F in the showrrom. At least you guys would have something to laugh about when you saw it next to the M3. :devil:
^Where's Treppy?^ :devil: :devil: :devil:
Why laugh at a good car?
I dont think either one will be bad
Quote from: Onslaught on October 19, 2007, 12:42:14 PM
Why laugh at a good car?
(http://upload.moldova.org/auto/Lexus/Lexus_IS-F_Performance_Sedan_2.jpg)
Look at those pipes
The IS-F looks like a turd.
Wait did the IS-F ever make it into production? :confused:
Quote from: M_power on October 19, 2007, 01:43:02 PM
Wait did the IS-F ever make it into production? :confused:
It should be on sale soon.
Ah okay
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 19, 2007, 12:13:16 PM
I wish there was a Lexus IS-F in the showrrom. At least you guys would have something to laugh about when you saw it next to the M3. :devil:
^Where's Treppy?^ :devil: :devil: :devil:
*wave*
at least they are trying to be different... i really dont see anything wrong with it except for all these wannabe's copying it after.. AKA Toyota Altezza..
Meaning.. before Toyota Aletzza no car contained clear back lights and after the whole world had too..
Quote from: Yawn on October 19, 2007, 03:25:24 PM
Meaning.. before Toyota Aletzza no car contained clear back lights and after the whole world had too..
They gave the IS-F Star Trek pipes, and enough body cladding to make it look like an IS with an allergic reaction.
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 19, 2007, 01:24:33 PM
The IS-F looks like a turd.
The BMW is no beauty queen itself. I'm not a fan of the Lexus tail pipes but other than that it's fine.
It's will probably be more reliable and the dash won't split after 10 years. :devil:
Quote from: Onslaught on October 19, 2007, 03:27:49 PM
The BMW is no beauty queen itself. I'm not a fan of the Lexus tail pipes but other than that it's fine.
It's will probably be more reliable and the dash won't split after 10 years. :devil:
Meh, I like the BMW a lot.
But yeah, the BMW will be no match for the supreme reliability of the Lexus. Toyota is the only reliable automaker around these days. :lol:
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 19, 2007, 03:27:28 PM
They gave the IS-F Star Trek pipes, and enough body cladding to make it look like an IS with an allergic reaction.
I really dont see anything wrong with it at all. I think the kit looks clean and far from anything Ricey..
Quote from: Onslaught on October 19, 2007, 12:42:14 PM
Why laugh at a good car?
Because...um...it looks like...(http://www.auto-motor.at/Auto/Autos-Neuwagen/Automarken-Automodelle-Neuigkeiten/Lexus-News/Lexus-IS-F-Detroit/Lexus-IS-F-vorne_high.jpg)
(http://www.autoreport.at/img-report/lexus-is-f.jpg)
(http://actualidadmotor.com/actualidadmotor/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/trasera1.jpg)
I mean, just look at that! The worst part are those stacked exhausts. Utterly tacky... (http://my-smileys.de/smileys3/rofl.gif)
Quote from: Onslaught on October 19, 2007, 03:27:49 PM
It's will probably be more reliable and the dash won't split after 10 years. :devil:
Here's a shot of Lexus Leather after 10 years...
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/cawimmer430a/GASTIEG/TractorSeat.jpg) :devil:
Other than the exhausts it looks good to me.
I like the blue.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 20, 2007, 05:42:11 AM
Other than the exhausts it looks good to me.
I like the blue.
I don't doubt it will perform well, but the body kit and rear exhausts are really my only problem with it. It looks "RICEish". The German performance sedans somehow still manage to pull of a conservative-sporty body kit look. Not the IS-F. It screams "LOOK AT ME!"
I doubt the 90 year old buyer on his second defilibrator will want that... :devil:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 20, 2007, 05:41:40 AM
Here's a shot of Lexus Leather after 10 years...
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/cawimmer430a/GASTIEG/TractorSeat.jpg)
:devil:
Looks more like a BMW dash to me.I respect the performance of their cars. And I used to think they made good looking sedans. But I've noticed that their dash materials don't hold up very well. My friend works on them and when I visit his shop it's something I've noticed over and over again.
Well would you look at this! Someone trolled and then derailed the very same thread he created. That's unheard of.
Christian, the Lexus jokes weren't even funny when they stared. Let alone a year later, just let it go.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 20, 2007, 05:46:01 AM
I don't doubt it will perform well, but the body kit and rear exhausts are really my only problem with it. It looks "RICEish". The German performance sedans somehow still manage to pull of a conservative-sporty body kit look. Not the IS-F. It screams "LOOK AT ME!"
I doubt the 90 year old buyer on his second defilibrator will want that... :devil:
One thing you dont know what Rice is.. I have seen your posts on rice and its just europeans not knowing what the hell their doing with their cars..
I have seen alot of Brabus kits that were non appealing as well but you dont hear me ranting about mercedes..Brabus does not scream look at me?? oh my god.. are you blind?? I actually like all cars but hearing every other post talking crap gets old...
Come to LA and OC you will see a ton of Mercedes turds putting on Brabus and AMG badges and AMG wheels on their "Mercedes" when it does not deserve the right...But then again LA gets better Mercedes and even BMW's than its home country.Actually sells more of the high end models too. thats pretty sad..
Quote from: JYODER240 on October 20, 2007, 08:39:33 AM
Christian, the Lexus jokes weren't even funny when they stared. Let alone a year later, just let it go.
x100.
Quote from: JYODER240 on October 20, 2007, 08:39:33 AM
Christian, the Lexus jokes weren't even funny when they stared. Let alone a year later, just let it go.
he just doesn't learn...
And to think he used to be one of the cooler members on C/D. :cry:
Quote from: Raghavan on October 20, 2007, 12:45:12 PM
he just doesn't learn...
And to think he used to be one of the cooler members on C/D. :cry:
I still think he's an awesome dude, he just gets a bit too carried away with the immaturiyt.
I really like the third shot.
I rather like the IS-F (though I wouldn't buy one) and I really like the stacked exhaust pipes. :mask: It's different and it's kinda cool.
And, I absolutely love white cars, that M3 looks great.
To be frank I think it looks like shit. Especially in white.
The shape of the car is great, but the details are awful. Especially the front fascia, rear fascia and bottoms of the doors.
To top it off the black roof on a white body is ridiculous.
Blech. I don't care how many people worship BMW: this is an ugly car.
Both the M3 an IS-F are ugly. It's to be expected because they're based on ugly cars.
Man I am just kidding. I really love Lexus. Such a classy and prestigeous luxury brand. Did you guys know that they have more prestige than BMW and are equal to Mercedes in terms of prestige? Lexus rocks! Those silly Germans had had over 100 years to perfect their cars, but it took a 20 year old Japanese company to show them the light. Lexus is the best!
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 19, 2007, 01:24:33 PM
The IS-F looks like a turd.
I agree. Like the fat bastard stepchild of a Hyundai Sonata and a Mazda 6.
Don't like the stacked exhaust either.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:14:21 AM
Man I am just kidding. I really love Lexus. Such a classy and prestigeous luxury brand. Did you guys know that they have more prestige than BMW and are equal to Mercedes in terms of prestige? Lexus rocks! Those silly Germans had had over 100 years to perfect their cars, but it took a 20 year old Japanese company to show them the light. Lexus is the best!
No car brand has perfected their cars.
And it's my personal opinion that neither BMW, Lexus or Mercedes are prestigious.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:14:21 AM
Man I am just kidding. I really love Lexus. Such a classy and prestigeous luxury brand. Did you guys know that they have more prestige than BMW and are equal to Mercedes in terms of prestige? Lexus rocks! Those silly Germans had had over 100 years to perfect their cars, but it took a 20 year old Japanese company to show them the light. Lexus is the best!
Look Wimmer, the hood is open!
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c178/jyoder240/c350.jpg)
Oh my god, they forgot to close it.
Looks closed to me. If you look at the body line at the hood and bumper and hood and headlamps you can see that it can't get any closer without hitting each other.
I find it sad that I bash the C-Class just to troll against Wimmer. I actually think it's a superb-looking car. A hot girl at school has one now. C300 something? It's very nice.
The 335i looks better then the M3. They certainly aren't what I would call pretty cars, but they aren't ugly either. I just don't think this generation of BMW's will age as gracefully as the previous generations did. They are going to look old as soon as the next generation comes out. Stupid Germans, that's supposed to be a Japanese trait.
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 21, 2007, 11:01:16 AM
They are going to look old as soon as the next generation comes out. Stupid Germans, that's supposed to be a Japanese trait.
(http://images.securedwebform.com/stock/300/HYUNDAI/SONATA/2003/4SA.JPG)
I still think this looks good.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on October 21, 2007, 11:11:39 AM
(http://images.securedwebform.com/stock/300/HYUNDAI/SONATA/2003/4SA.JPG)
I still think this looks good.
I never liked it. It screamed "knockoff" to me.
Quote from: JYODER240 on October 21, 2007, 10:12:40 AM
Look Wimmer, the hood is open!
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c178/jyoder240/c350.jpg)
The best FAIL picture in the history of everything.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:14:21 AM
I really love Lexus. Such a classy and prestigeous luxury brand. Did you guys know that they have more prestige than BMW and are equal to Mercedes in terms of prestige? Lexus rocks!
Prestige is built upon building a superior product. And right now Lexus is kicking everyone else's ass.
QuoteThose silly Germans had had over 100 years to perfect their cars, but it took a 20 year old Japanese company to show them the light.
The Germans really have had over 100 years to perfect their cars,
but they haven't. Lexus' first car was considered better-built, more reliable, etc. Sure it was a pretty blatant copy of a Mercedes-Benz. But it was quantifiably
better.
And for most car buyers that is paramount. It's what builds prestige (other than having ridiculously high prices, which is just about the only thing keeping Mercedes-Benz 'prestigious' whatsoever in Canada).
Quote from: TheIntrepid on October 21, 2007, 11:11:39 AM
(http://images.securedwebform.com/stock/300/HYUNDAI/SONATA/2003/4SA.JPG)
I still think this looks good.
Hyundai is Korean.
Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 11:16:08 AM
Prestige is built upon building a superior product. And right now Lexus is kicking everyone else's ass.
The Germans really have had over 100 years to perfect their cars, but they haven't. Lexus' first car was considered better-built, more reliable, etc. Sure it was a pretty blatant copy of a Mercedes-Benz. But it was quantifiably better.
And for most car buyers that is paramount. It's what builds prestige (other than having ridiculously high prices, which is just about the only thing keeping Mercedes-Benz 'prestigious' whatsoever in Canada).
:clap: :clap: :clap:
GOOD MAN!
Quote from: Raza on October 21, 2007, 11:16:58 AM
Hyundai is Korean.
:lol:
He was just going along with the whole Japanese thing, and how it applies to Koreans too.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 21, 2007, 09:59:05 AM
And it's my personal opinion that neither BMW, Lexus or Mercedes are prestigious.
Interesting. Why? :cheers:
Quote from: JYODER240 on October 21, 2007, 10:12:40 AM
Look Wimmer, the hood is open!
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c178/jyoder240/c350.jpg)
:lol:
That's actually funny. Too bad the hood is closed. :rolleyes:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 11:28:00 AM
:lol:
That's actually funny. Too bad the hood is closed. :rolleyes:
Doesn't look like it. :lol:
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 21, 2007, 11:29:16 AM
Doesn't look like it. :lol:
Looks like the hood on my sister's 118i isn't closed either... :wtf:
I like it. A lot. I'm not a huge fan of white on most cars (despite owning a white car :shrug:), but I think that white looks very elegant on BMWs.
As far as the timeless goes, I think this probably won't be as timeless as past BMWs, but personally, I think the pre-facelift E46s look pretty outdated. In fact, I'd say that they look more dated than E36s. Hell, one of my dad's co-workers has an E36 M3 that he thought was newer than my uncle's E46 M3.
(http://images.automotive.com/reviews/images/99bmw328i.jpg)
(http://2cars.cz/files/images/b8e36_1.preview.jpg)
Quote from: BimmerM3 on October 21, 2007, 12:05:42 PM
I like it. A lot. I'm not a huge fan of white on most cars (despite owning a white car :shrug:), but I think that white looks very elegant on BMWs.
As far as the timeless goes, I think this probably won't be as timeless as past BMWs, but personally, I think the pre-facelift E46s look pretty outdated. In fact, I'd say that they look more dated than E36s. Hell, one of my dad's co-workers has an E36 M3 that he thought was newer than my uncle's E46 M3.
(http://images.automotive.com/reviews/images/99bmw328i.jpg)
(http://2cars.cz/files/images/b8e36_1.preview.jpg)
I love both of them.
I think E30's have aged very well...
I showed a pic of an E30 M3 to my mom and she was like "oh that's a pretty nice looking car. It must be pretty new, right?"
I told her it was a '91 and she was astonished.
Quote from: Raghavan on October 21, 2007, 12:25:17 PM
I think E30's have aged very well...
I showed a pic of an E30 M3 to my mom and she was like "oh that's a pretty nice looking car. It must be pretty new, right?"
I told her it was a '91 and she was astonished.
Your mother is an idiot. It looks like it's from the late 80s.
Quote from: Raghavan on October 21, 2007, 12:25:17 PM
I showed a pic of an E30 M3 to my mom and she was like "oh that's a pretty nice looking car. It must be pretty new, right?"
What's your mom smoking? :lol:
Quote from: TheIntrepid on October 21, 2007, 12:48:21 PM
Your mother is an idiot. It looks like it's from the late 80s.
You're an idiot. It's beautiful. Unlike a certain family boat.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 11:27:26 AM
Interesting. Why? :cheers:
Other than a few rare models like the 300SL or few other like the SLR, what makes them prestigious? The cost? The fact that many of the people who drive them are stuck up dicks?
Not that I hold the last one against the car itself. It can't help that. And I'm not say that all the people who drive them are that way.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 21, 2007, 12:52:25 PM
Other than a few rare models like the 300SL or few other like the SLR, what makes them prestigious?
:mask: :confused:
Buddy, you need to look at these threads and learn a few things. :ohyeah:
http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=10610.0
http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=10287.0
<---- NOW THIS SAYS IT ALL!And these...http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=10500.0
http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=10693.0
http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=10588.0
http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=10461.0
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x307/cawimmer430MB02/MBMuseum05/MBM_95.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x307/cawimmer430MB02/MBMuseum05/MBM_141.jpg)
There's so much which makes MB probably the most prestigeous carbrand in the world. The inventor of the automobile, various innovations and safety features which are standard on all cars today, a glorious motorsport heritage (with impressive innovations and engineering feats and accomplishments) etc.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on October 21, 2007, 12:48:21 PM
Your mother is an idiot. It looks like it's from the late 80s.
Well, you're a fucking dumbass. So there.
And it still looks awesome and always makes me stare when one drives by.
Unlike a certain POS Intrepid. I can't think of one car that I could care less of.
So does Dodge deserve that much prestige for developing the first minivan, first removable seats, first Stow'N'Go, Swivel'N'Go, etc etc etc
Quote from: TheIntrepid on October 21, 2007, 01:12:25 PM
So does Dodge deserve that much prestige for developing the first minivan, first removable seats, first Stow'N'Go, Swivel'N'Go, etc etc etc
Let's be honest here. The history and accomplishments of Mercedes blow those of Dodge out of the water. Sure, Dodge has their achievements etc., but Mercedes was and still is a leader in the global automotive scene - something Dodge never was.
And MB actually invented the "minivan". No lie. :ohyeah:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:09:47 PM
:mask: :confused:
There's so much which makes MB probably the most prestigeous carbrand in the world. The inventor of the automobile, various innovations and safety features which are standard on all cars today, a glorious motorsport heritage (with impressive innovations and engineering feats and accomplishments) etc.
And they
still can't screw together a car as well as Lexus.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:15:25 PM
And MB actually invented the "minivan". No lie. :ohyeah:
Ha! I'd love to hear this story...
Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:17:28 PM
Ha! I'd love to hear this story...
At this point, Wimmer is just spewing BS out of his ass.
Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:16:52 PM
And they still can't screw together a car as well as Lexus.
Proof please.
Most of the cars you just showed are ugly overrated German junk. :lol:
Prestige comes from history and tradition. A car like the Farboud doesn't have prestige. It has exclusivity. A Ferrari has prestige (an amount that even Lamborghini doesn't have).
Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:16:52 PM
And they still can't screw together a car as well as Lexus.
:nutty:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:15:25 PM
And MB actually invented the "minivan". No lie. :ohyeah:
That's bullshit. Ever heard of the Scout Scarab?
I like Mercedes a lot too, but you're taking it WAY too far. Jake Miller's taken over you.
Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:17:28 PM
Ha! I'd love to hear this story...
Quote from: Raghavan on October 21, 2007, 01:18:22 PM
At this point, Wimmer is just spewing BS out of his ass.
Here's a bunch of MBs that could pass for a bus/minivan (MULTI-SEATER).PWNED1895 Benz OmnibusOffering a seating capacity for 8 people, the Benz Omnibus was the world's first bus. They were used for public transportation between Siegen-Netphen-Deuz, only for a weeks however since massive rainfalls made the muddy roads impassable. The originals have been lost, the model shown is a replica.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/cawimmer430MB01/MBMuseum01/1886-189914.jpg)
1899 Daimler Motor-Gesch?ftswagenThe Daimler Gesch?ftswagen (business vehicle) was the forerunner of today's commercial vans (Mercedes Sprinter, Ford Econoline etc.). A Phoenix engine powered the car and enabled it to transport freight with a maximum weight of 500 kg.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/cawimmer430MB01/MBMuseum01/1886-189918.jpg)
Mercedes-Benz L 406 KastenwagenThe L 406 is a representative of the L 319 van series. Introduced in 1955, the model offered an innovative and ground breaking design that distinguished it from trucks.
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x307/cawimmer430MB02/MBMuseum06/MBM_171.jpg)
Heck, the L406 is basically a minivan in commercial disguise. These were also sold as "minibuses" to private and commercial buyers meaning they were available in better trim for family use.
Quote from: Raghavan on October 21, 2007, 01:12:10 PM
Well, you're a fucking dumbass. So there.
And it still looks awesome and always makes me stare when one drives by.
Unlike a certain POS Intrepid. I can't think of one car that I could care less of.
I CARE LESS ABOUT THE CAMRY HYBRID!!!!!!!! AND A GRAND CARAVAN!!!!!
Quote from: Onslaught on October 21, 2007, 01:18:52 PM
Most of the cars you just showed are ugly overrated
Read the history behind them. They are not overrated. :ohyeah:
You want overrated? I got a five letter word for you: L E X U S
Now that stuff is MEGA-OVERRATED. :ohyeah:
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 21, 2007, 01:24:07 PM
I CARE LESS ABOUT THE CAMRY HYBRID!!!!!!!! AND A GRAND CARAVAN!!!!!
Oh yeah, that is true. :devil:
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 21, 2007, 01:22:53 PM
That's bullshit. Ever heard of the Scout Scarab?
I like Mercedes a lot too, but you're taking it WAY too far. Jake Miller's taken over you.
I am not taking this too far at all, just CLEARING UP A FEW THINGS. :ohyeah:
Dodge/Chrysler might have been the first to make minivans popular for the family, but they didn't exactly invent this concept. In fact, I am sure there were probably a few unheard of European manufacturers that came up with this concept before Dodge and even before MB.
People always claim that "BMW invented the sports sedan". Did they? Because Daimler and Benz were offering cars in the 1900s all the way to the 1930s that were considered sport sedans - and were sporty for their time. :ohyeah:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:23:23 PM
Here's a bunch of MBs that could pass for a bus/minivan (MULTI-SEATER).
PWNED
1895 Benz Omnibus
Offering a seating capacity for 8 people, the Benz Omnibus was the world's first bus. They were used for public transportation between Siegen-Netphen-Deuz, only for a weeks however since massive rainfalls made the muddy roads impassable. The originals have been lost, the model shown is a replica.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/cawimmer430MB01/MBMuseum01/1886-189914.jpg)
What a POS! Look at those skinny little tyres! Leaf springs? No shocks? That is the worst front end design I've ever seen in my life. The headlights look like something you hang on a Christmas tree, and the steering wheel looks straight off the plumbing in my basement. Don't even get me started on the panel gaps!
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:28:29 PM
I am not taking this too far at all, just CLEARING UP A FEW THINGS. :ohyeah:
Dodge/Chrysler might have been the first to make minivans popular for the family, but they didn't exactly invent this concept. In fact, I am sure there were probably a few unheard of European manufacturers that came up with this concept before Dodge and even before MB.
People always claim that "BMW invented the sports sedan". Did they? Because Daimler and Benz were offering cars in the 1900s all the way to the 1930s that were considered sport sedans - and were sporty for their time. :ohyeah:
Infiniti G35
That is all.
:lol:
Quote from: TheIntrepid on October 21, 2007, 01:30:19 PM
Infiniti G35
That is all.
Infiniti didn't invent the sports sedan. They just showed BMW how to make them cheaper. :lol:
This thread = :rockon:
Quote from: TheIntrepid on October 21, 2007, 01:32:50 PM
Kids.
Know what? Call me a n00b, but please explain your joke. I still don't get it.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:32:43 PM
Infiniti didn't invent the sports sedan. They just showed BMW how to make them cheaper. :lol:
And not quite as good. I'd like to see every G35/3-series review re-done without price taken into account. There's a reason the G35 costs less money.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on October 21, 2007, 01:39:48 PM
And not quite as good. I'd like to see every G35/3-series review re-done without price taken into account. There's a reason the G35 costs less money.
Trust me, BMW is still and will always be the Ultimate Driving Machine. Infiniti might come close, but they can't recreate the BMW passion and motorsport heritage. :ohyeah:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:18:31 PM
Proof please.
Every quality survey in the world in the last 20 years.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 21, 2007, 01:23:23 PM
Here's a bunch of MBs that could pass for a bus/minivan (MULTI-SEATER).
My Jeep has multi-seats: that doesn't make it a minivan.
Buses are buses, not minivans.
Quote
1895 Benz Omnibus
Offering a seating capacity for 8 people, the Benz Omnibus was the world's first bus. They were used for public transportation between Siegen-Netphen-Deuz, only for a weeks however since massive rainfalls made the muddy roads impassable. The originals have been lost, the model shown is a replica.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/cawimmer430MB01/MBMuseum01/1886-189914.jpg)
That's a bus, not a minivan.
Besides, it isn't a Benz: it was built after-market by Netphener Omnibusgesellschaft.
Quote1899 Daimler Motor-Gesch?ftswagen
The Daimler Gesch?ftswagen (business vehicle) was the forerunner of today's commercial vans (Mercedes Sprinter, Ford Econoline etc.). A Phoenix engine powered the car and enabled it to transport freight with a maximum weight of 500 kg.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/cawimmer430MB01/MBMuseum01/1886-189918.jpg)
Trucks aren't minivans, and minivans are by definition not truck-based.
QuoteMercedes-Benz L 406 Kastenwagen
The L 406 is a representative of the L 319 van series. Introduced in 1955, the model offered an innovative and ground breaking design that distinguished it from trucks.
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x307/cawimmer430MB02/MBMuseum06/MBM_171.jpg)
Heck, the L406 is basically a minivan in commercial disguise. These were also sold as "minibuses" to private and commercial buyers meaning they were available in better trim for family use.
It's a forward-control van. Congratulations, you found a forward control van that debuted five years after the VW Type 2. It's a body on frame truck, it's not a minivan.
First minivan was arguably the Stout Scarab, probably the VW Type 2, and now defined by the Dodge Caravan.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on October 21, 2007, 01:39:48 PM
And not quite as good. I'd like to see every G35/3-series review re-done without price taken into account. There's a reason the G35 costs less money.
Says the guy with a BMW in his name, avatar, and signature.
Price has to be taken into account because the price matters. If you disregard price you should be allowed to disregard any other thing. Like BMW's historically shitty brakes (according to Evo, I haven't driven every BMW), or the Infiniti's high weight.
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 21, 2007, 01:35:49 PM
Know what? Call me a n00b, but please explain your joke. I still don't get it.
Jake Miller likes the Infiniti G35. That was a very Jake Miller-y post that I quoted, so i said "Infiniti G35". Wimmer, whom the joke was intended at, got it, so stfu.
Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:45:44 PM
Every quality survey in the world in the last 20 years.
Oh please. If you want an UNBIASED opinion, MB cars at the moment are just as well-made as those of Lexus. Heck, even the W210 E-Class was overall a decent car for example. I personally know two people (friends of m y dad) with W210s that have over 500,000 km on them and are still running strong. They use their cars to do business in Eastern Europe and travel there quite a few times a year. The major weakness of the W210 was rusting problems however. Build quality wise it was more than decent.Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:45:44 PMMy Jeep has multi-seats: that doesn't make it a minivan.
Yes, soccer dad. :devil:Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:45:44 PMBuses are buses, not minivans.
Yes, I agree. All I'm saying is that Mercedes sold some of their smaller buses in trim levels that would appeal to private buyers. Back then, a small bus could be considered the modern forerunner of the minivan, since the minivan wasn't officially "created" yet. And don't forget the VW Campers of the 1950s. Now those were pretty much solid minivans, even moreso than the MB buses. :ohyeah:Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:45:44 PMBesides, it isn't a Benz: it was built after-market by Netphener Omnibusgesellschaft.
With the chassis and engine coming from Benz. Netphener merely provided the coachwork.Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:45:44 PMIt's a forward-control van. Congratulations, you found a forward control van that debuted five years after the VW Type 2. It's a body on frame truck, it's not a minivan.
Yeah, you're right anyway. I think VW deserves more credit for really hammering in this type of vehicle than MB. :cheers:
I just wanted to piss Treppy off too. :ohyeah:
Fact is, at least from what I've read, that MB did invent the concept of a motorized multi-purpose carrier in the late 19th / early 20th century.Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:45:44 PMFirst minivan was arguably the Stout Scarab, probably the VW Type 2, and now defined by the Dodge Caravan.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 22, 2007, 05:50:04 AM
Oh please. If you want an UNBIASED opinion, MB cars at the moment are just as well-made as those of Lexus.
Unbiased? No offense but you couldn't give an unbiased opinion about a comparison between the two.
No more then I could with say a Solstice and MX-5.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 22, 2007, 05:58:04 AM
Unbiased? No offense but you couldn't give an unbiased opinion about a comparison between the two.
No more then I could with say a Solstice and MX-5.
Yes I could. I've said many positive things before about Lexus. Like how I think the GS has the best interior in class with the Audi A6 for example, way above the E-Class. Or how they're good value for money and probably appeal to people who want a well-equipped car and don't care about heritage. Stuff like that. :ohyeah:
But I'm being really serious when I say that Lexus is IMHO mega-overrated. They are.
Heritage can only take you so fare. I don't know many people who go around worrying if their car has heritage or not. But the people I know don't have their noses up in the air too.
All I know is that in the States I could go get a Lexus for far less than a MB and have just as good a car. But I'd still rather have an Infinity over both of them.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 22, 2007, 05:50:04 AM
Oh please. If you want an UNBIASED opinion, MB cars at the moment are just as well-made as those of Lexus. Heck, even the W210 E-Class was overall a decent car for example. I personally know two people (friends of my dad) with W210s that have over 500,000 km on them and are still running strong. They use their cars to do business in Eastern Europe and travel there quite a few times a year. The major weakness of the W210 was rusting problems however. Build quality wise it was more than decent.
You're not qualified to offer an unbiased opinion about anything Mercedes-benz related.
Conversely, I know a tow-truck driver. He tows mostly two kinds of vehicles:
- old junkers that are falling apart
- brand new Mercedes-Benzes and BMWs with electrical system failures
Quote
Yes, I agree. All I'm saying is that Mercedes sold some of their smaller buses in trim levels that would appeal to private buyers. Back then, a small bus could be considered the modern forerunner of the minivan, since the minivan wasn't officially "created" yet.
Exactly.
QuoteWith the chassis and engine coming from Benz. Netphener merely provided the coachwork.
Yeah, Netphener provided the coachwork. You know, the thing that separated it from everything else at the time...
QuoteFact is, at least from what I've read, that MB did invent the concept of a motorized multi-purpose carrier in the late 19th / early 20th century.
I'm sure you did read that somewhere. Probably a Mercedes-Benz book...
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 22, 2007, 06:09:58 AM
Yes I could. I've said many positive things before about Lexus. Like how I think the GS has the best interior in class with the Audi A6 for example, way above the E-Class. Or how they're good value for money and probably appeal to people who want a well-equipped car and don't care about heritage. Stuff like that. :ohyeah:
But I'm being really serious when I say that Lexus is IMHO mega-overrated. They are.
GS has the worst interior in class, I believe. Large empty expanses of plain plastic, ugly design, and nowhere near the quality of the Audi.
Wow. Automotive enthusiasts competing to prove who can hate the most cars. You sure you guys aren't car-hating eco-nazis IRL?
I like the white M3. I'd prefer the roof to be the same color as the car in this case, but I still like it. And I love the looks of the new 3 series coupes. I'd love this car in Estoril Blue...
BTW, my 7 series had excellent brakes and at 10 years and 154k miles old, has a perfect condition dash and leather interior. Don't know WHAT you guys are smoking...
I'm just going on what I've read, almost specifically about M car brakes. However, I've been in a few old BMWs and they have fine interiors though.
Quote from: ChrisV on October 22, 2007, 12:13:01 PM
BTW, my 7 series had excellent brakes and at 10 years and 154k miles old, has a perfect condition dash and leather interior. Don't know WHAT you guys are smoking...
I didn't say they all crack no matter what. But I've noticed that many do.
Quote from: ChrisV on October 22, 2007, 12:10:49 PM
Wow. Automotive enthusiasts competing to prove who can hate the most cars. You sure you guys aren't car-hating eco-nazis IRL?
I like the white M3. I'd prefer the roof to be the same color as the car in this case, but I still like it. And I love the looks of the new 3 series coupes. I'd love this car in Estoril Blue...
:hesaid:
Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 11:16:08 AM
Prestige is built upon building a superior product. And right now Lexus is kicking everyone else's ass.
The Germans really have had over 100 years to perfect their cars, but they haven't. Lexus' first car was considered better-built, more reliable, etc. Sure it was a pretty blatant copy of a Mercedes-Benz. But it was quantifiably better.
And for most car buyers that is paramount. It's what builds prestige (other than having ridiculously high prices, which is just about the only thing keeping Mercedes-Benz 'prestigious' whatsoever in Canada).
The first ES 250 and LS 400 were in no way better, or for that matter even close, to their comparible Mercedes. The Mercedes were, however, rediculously overpriced for what they were. The second generation LS 400 was the start of their rise to the top. The 1st IMO was vastly overated.
The 98-03ish Lexus products, in terms of build quality at least, easily had Merc beat. However, once again, Mercedes seems to have sliped ahead, and looking at their recent efforts (S, C, and especially the CL) seem to want to keep it that way.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 22, 2007, 02:34:58 PM
I didn't say they all crack no matter what. But I've noticed that many do.
EDIT: Any leather interior that's not taken care of and is subjected to the wrong conditions will crack after 10 years. It's just the nature of leather.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on October 22, 2007, 07:14:42 PM
Any leather interior that's not taken car of will crack after 10 years. It's just the nature of leather.
My parents' Accord just turned 10 years old and we haven't done anything to the interior and it's fine. :lol:
Quote from: Raza on October 21, 2007, 01:45:49 PM
Says the guy with a BMW in his name, avatar, and signature.
Price has to be taken into account because the price matters. If you disregard price you should be allowed to disregard any other thing. Like BMW's historically shitty brakes (according to Evo, I haven't driven every BMW), or the Infiniti's high weight.
Sure, you can disregard any other thing. It depends on what you're trying to prove. If you're going to show that the 3 series is a better driving car, you disregard price. If you're trying to show that the G35 is a better deal than a 3 series, you disregard that the 3 series is a better driving car.
Fact is, if I have $45,000 to spend on a sport sedan, and the G35 is a better driving car even though it only costs $35,000, I'm not going to buy the BMW just because I have 10 extra grand to spare. However, if the 3 series is a better driving car, I'm going to buy that, even though I'll be out 10 grand more.
Quote from: Raghavan on October 22, 2007, 07:17:04 PM
My parents' Accord just turned 10 years old and we haven't done anything to the interior and it's fine. :lol:
I edited my post. Maybe your 'rent's car spent fewer days in glaring sun.
All I'm saying is I'm around many older BMW cars. And a alarming number of them have big cracks on the dash.
As for seats, I've had leather before and it held up great. But then again I take better care of my car then most people.
Perhaps I live is some strange area that destroys BMW dashes faster than all other cars?
And I didn't say that BMW's suck because of this. 240Z cars rust and I like them. MX-5's clutch slave cylinders fail around 60K on the dot and I still like them.
I'm just sick of seeing some people talk about how perfect German cars are and what crap Toyota sells.
Quote from: Submariner on October 22, 2007, 04:27:18 PM
The 98-03ish Lexus products, in terms of build quality at least, easily had Merc beat. However, once again, Mercedes seems to have sliped ahead, and looking at their recent efforts (S, C, and especially the CL) seem to want to keep it that way.
I agree those years of Lexus are clearly better built and have better materials than the competition. I think they've slacked a little on their more recent stuff and are trying to live off their reputation.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 22, 2007, 07:25:11 PM
All I'm saying is I'm around many older BMW cars. And a alarming number of them have big cracks on the dash.
As for seats, I've had leather before and it held up great. But then again I take better care of my car then most people.
Perhaps I live is some strange area that destroys BMW dashes faster than all other cars?
And I didn't say that BMW's suck because of this. 240Z cars rust and I like them. MX-5's clutch slave cylinders fail around 60K on the dot and I still like them.
I'm just sick of seeing some people talk about how perfect German cars are and what crap Toyota sells.
I trust you on the BMW thing... I think I came off a little too defensive. It seems to me like a lot of older BMWs that I've been in have cracked leather on the seats, but like I said, I've experienced that on many older cars, not just BMWs.
I also don't think that anyone on this board will seriously tell you that Toyota sells crap. Sure, most of us agree that Camrys are painfully non-engaging, but we all know they're good at what they do.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 22, 2007, 06:31:06 AM
Heritage can only take you so fare. I don't know many people who go around worrying if their car has heritage or not. But the people I know don't have their noses up in the air too.
All I know is that in the States I could go get a Lexus for far less than a MB and have just as good a car. But I'd still rather have an Infinity over both of them.
Something that all European luxury brands have in common is a lot of heritage. To me therefore, this is one of the things a "true luxury" brand needs. People aspire to own a BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar or Rolls Royce (etc.) because they stand for something.
A lot of people don't care about heritage, THAT'S FINE. What's not fine is when they come out with bullshit like "Lexus has more prestige than BMW and is equal to Mercedes because the LS can park itself and S-Class can't..." Sorry, but that's utter BULLSHIT. Take a look at my Mercedes Museum / BMW Museum threads. They own Lexus a million times over in achievements and accomplishments. Lexus is a boring brand with no heritage that I wouldn't aspire to owning. They make superb cars, but that's it. There's nothing emotionally attractive or enticing about a Lexus. No participation in motorsports (except some Rolex Series that nobody has ever heard off), no real accomplishments the way BMW or Mercedes accomplished something. In fact, I find the accomplishments of Lexus to be totally overrated.
For God's sake they had rich daddy Toyota behind them with virtually unlimited cash reserves. I'm pretty sure Lexus could afford to sell at a loss to gain market share when they first started out - because Toyota could afford it. Lexus is where it is because of the financial power of Toyota. They could afford to offer more for less money (even if it meant making a slight financial loss per car) for the sake of gaining market share. More importantly, Lexus has hardly any real innovations. They take existing technology and improve upon it. Best example is the Mercedes Pre-Safe system which Lexus shamelessly ripped off and had the balls to claim they "invented it" in some bullshit lame Lexus advertisement. Pathetic.
Quote from: 93JC on October 22, 2007, 07:07:45 AM
You're not qualified to offer an unbiased opinion about anything Mercedes-benz related.
Conversely, I know a tow-truck driver. He tows mostly two kinds of vehicles:
- old junkers that are falling apart
- brand new Mercedes-Benzes and BMWs with electrical system failures
Sounds to me like your friend is a Lexus fanboy...Quote from: 93JC on October 22, 2007, 07:07:45 AMExactly.
Yeah, Netphener provided the coachwork. You know, the thing that separated it from everything else at the time...
The coachwork was the body. Benz supplied the engine and a number of other mechanical components.Quote from: 93JC on October 22, 2007, 07:07:45 AMI'm sure you did read that somewhere. Probably a Mercedes-Benz book...
Mercedes-Benz Museum actually. I don't think they would lie about something like that.
Quote from: Raza on October 22, 2007, 11:39:51 AM
GS has the worst interior in class, I believe. Large empty expanses of plain plastic, ugly design, and nowhere near the quality of the Audi.
The Lexus GS does strike me as a mediocre car overall, mainly because it seems to be so "uncompetitive" in many ways. The inside is small (I've sat in one, front and back with the front seats moved all the way forward etc.) and so is the trunk. The transmission tunnel is unusually wide (just like on the IS) taking up precious leg space, front and back. Engine wise, you have an overrated GS450h which gets worse fuel economy and emissions than a new BMW 530i and the GS300 (or is it GS350 now?) and that new GS460. Might be fine for America, but not for Europe.
I find the interior to be really good though, right up there with the Audi A6. It's even better than the LS even IMO, which I find slightly overrated.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 22, 2007, 02:34:58 PM
I didn't say they all crack no matter what. But I've noticed that many do.
You can say that about nearly any car. Especially in sunshine states, where the UV damages the vinyls. I've seen cracked dashes in Miatas and Civics, too.
Quote from: ChrisV on October 23, 2007, 05:34:36 AM
You can say that about nearly any car. Especially in sunshine states, where the UV damages the vinyls. I've seen cracked dashes in Miatas and Civics, too.
Well I've been in literally thousands of the cars you just named. And I can only remember one MX-5 with a busted up dash. I can't remember ever seeing a civic.
But I'm wrong and it's just a fluke. BMW has never made anything that could go wrong and because your car is fine then all of them are.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 23, 2007, 04:56:01 AM
Something that all European luxury brands have in common is a lot of heritage. To me therefore, this is one of the things a "true luxury" brand needs. People aspire to own a BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar or Rolls Royce (etc.) because they stand for something.
A lot of people don't care about heritage, THAT'S FINE. What's not fine is when they come out with bullshit like "Lexus has more prestige than BMW and is equal to Mercedes because the LS can park itself and S-Class can't..." Sorry, but that's utter BULLSHIT. Take a look at my Mercedes Museum / BMW Museum threads. They own Lexus a million times over in achievements and accomplishments. Lexus is a boring brand with no heritage that I wouldn't aspire to owning. They make superb cars, but that's it. There's nothing emotionally attractive or enticing about a Lexus. No participation in motorsports (except some Rolex Series that nobody has ever heard off), no real accomplishments the way BMW or Mercedes accomplished something. In fact, I find the accomplishments of Lexus to be totally overrated.
For God's sake they had rich daddy Toyota behind them with virtually unlimited cash reserves. I'm pretty sure Lexus could afford to sell at a loss to gain market share when they first started out - because Toyota could afford it. Lexus is where it is because of the financial power of Toyota. They could afford to offer more for less money (even if it meant making a slight financial loss per car) for the sake of gaining market share. More importantly, Lexus has hardly any real innovations. They take existing technology and improve upon it. Best example is the Mercedes Pre-Safe system which Lexus shamelessly ripped off and had the balls to claim they "invented it" in some bullshit lame Lexus advertisement. Pathetic.
Bull shit.
A good car is a good car regardless of how many races or inventions the manufacture has made in the past. How the hell does prestige help you after you buy a Jag and it leaves you on the side of the road?
I'm sure while you call a tow truck to get your stuck up ass you can tell the Lexus driver who's driving by "well, my car has more prestige than yours."
I'm fully aware that MB has done many great things in the past and present. But that's not enough to say that others can't make something just as good as they do. Hell, Hyundai could make a better car.
I know that they have been around longer and have a more"prestigious" history. But in the end it makes no difference in the quality of the current cars sold.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 23, 2007, 05:53:07 AM
Well I've been in literally thousands of the cars you just named. And I can only remember one MX-5 with a busted up dash. I can't remember ever seeing a civic.
http://austin.craigslist.org/car/455286767.html
http://www.hondacarforum.com/acura/3854-1989-acura-legend-dash-kit.html
The point is, any car can have a cracked dash as it ages, depending on location and how it was taken care of. And any car can NOT have a cracked dash. Judging it by brand is ridiculous.
QuoteBut I'm wrong and it's just a fluke. BMW has never made anything that could go wrong and because your car is fine then all of them are.
Oh, come on, Way to act like a fucking baby. Face it, you made a blanket statement that was wrong. Not all of them have to be perfect for that to be the case.
The fact is, I bought a cheap used one, and like all of them I looked at, the dash is uncracked. The car is 10 years old, thus your statement that they WILL fucking crack at 10 years old is WRONG.
Quit acting like a fucking baby about it and crying because I caught you out on a blanket statement.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on October 22, 2007, 07:20:36 PM
Sure, you can disregard any other thing. It depends on what you're trying to prove. If you're going to show that the 3 series is a better driving car, you disregard price. If you're trying to show that the G35 is a better deal than a 3 series, you disregard that the 3 series is a better driving car.
Fact is, if I have $45,000 to spend on a sport sedan, and the G35 is a better driving car even though it only costs $35,000, I'm not going to buy the BMW just because I have 10 extra grand to spare. However, if the 3 series is a better driving car, I'm going to buy that, even though I'll be out 10 grand more.
Okay, here's the hypothetical. The BMW is better. But only by a little (let's say 5%). But it costs 25% more. Would you still buy it? What if it costs 50% more? 100% more? If so, you're a fool.
The argument isn't whether or not the car is marginally better. The argument is whether it's worth the extra money.
Fuck all of you and your pretentious cars.
Mustang = Prestige :praise:
Quote from: Submariner on October 22, 2007, 04:27:18 PM
The first ES 250 and LS 400 were in no way better, or for that matter even close, to their comparible Mercedes. The Mercedes were, however, rediculously overpriced for what they were. The second generation LS 400 was the start of their rise to the top. The 1st IMO was vastly overated.
You can delude yourself into believing whatever you want. Toyota will laugh to the bank regardless.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 23, 2007, 04:58:21 AM
Sounds to me like your friend is a Lexus fanboy...
:rolleyes:
He's a
tow-truck driver...
Not everybody who thinks Mercedes-Benzes and BMWs are unreliable is a 'Lexus fanboi'.
QuoteThe coachwork was the body.
Exactly. What separated the 'omnibus' from ever other car at the time? The BODY.
Netphener could just as easily have picked some other car to put their body on.
QuoteMercedes-Benz Museum actually. I don't think they would lie about something like that.
Mercedes-Benz, corporately, tends to overexaggerate in such claims. I suppose you think The first cars to have ABS and airbags were Mercedes-Benzes? That's what they would have you believe, but it's not true.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 23, 2007, 04:56:01 AM
Something that all European luxury brands have in common is a lot of heritage. To me therefore, this is one of the things a "true luxury" brand needs. People aspire to own a BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar or Rolls Royce (etc.) because they stand for something.
A lot of people don't care about heritage, THAT'S FINE. What's not fine is when they come out with bullshit like "Lexus has more prestige than BMW and is equal to Mercedes because the LS can park itself and S-Class can't..." Sorry, but that's utter BULLSHIT. Take a look at my Mercedes Museum / BMW Museum threads. They own Lexus a million times over in achievements and accomplishments. Lexus is a boring brand with no heritage that I wouldn't aspire to owning. They make superb cars, but that's it. There's nothing emotionally attractive or enticing about a Lexus. No participation in motorsports (except some Rolex Series that nobody has ever heard off), no real accomplishments the way BMW or Mercedes accomplished something. In fact, I find the accomplishments of Lexus to be totally overrated.
For God's sake they had rich daddy Toyota behind them with virtually unlimited cash reserves. I'm pretty sure Lexus could afford to sell at a loss to gain market share when they first started out - because Toyota could afford it. Lexus is where it is because of the financial power of Toyota. They could afford to offer more for less money (even if it meant making a slight financial loss per car) for the sake of gaining market share. More importantly, Lexus has hardly any real innovations. They take existing technology and improve upon it. Best example is the Mercedes Pre-Safe system which Lexus shamelessly ripped off and had the balls to claim they "invented it" in some bullshit lame Lexus advertisement. Pathetic.
The whole reason I keep prodding you on in this thread is to play devil's advocate: I don't like Lexus, I don't like Mercedes-Benz. I'm trying to make a point, because frankly, on behalf of the rest of the forum, we're sick and fucking tired of the idiotic trolling.
You need to understand and accept this: we don't give a fuck. We don't give a fuck if Mercedes-Benz has more racing wins, more 'innovations' throughout its history, blah blah blah, etc. No one cares. No one cares about what you think about Lexus. You made your point a LONG time ago.
Accept these facts:
- we don't care about Mercedes-Benz's prestige
- we don't care about Lexus' prestige
- we don't care who has more prestige
- we don't care who has less prestige
So shut the fuck up about it.
i think there are more fanbois in here then i can shake a stick at... :mask:
Quote from: ChrisV on October 23, 2007, 06:47:54 AM
http://austin.craigslist.org/car/455286767.html
http://www.hondacarforum.com/acura/3854-1989-acura-legend-dash-kit.html
The point is, any car can have a cracked dash as it ages, depending on location and how it was taken care of. And any car can NOT have a cracked dash. Judging it by brand is ridiculous.
Oh, come on, Way to act like a fucking baby. Face it, you made a blanket statement that was wrong. Not all of them have to be perfect for that to be the case.
The fact is, I bought a cheap used one, and like all of them I looked at, the dash is uncracked. The car is 10 years old, thus your statement that they WILL fucking crack at 10 years old is WRONG.
Quit acting like a fucking baby about it and crying because I caught you out on a blanket statement.
Listen up grandpa. The little 10 year old comment with the devil head after it was a fucking joke. Most people would understand that and if you can't then I don't give a fuck.
I live right down the road from a German specialty shop called Touring Car. My good friend has worked there for about 16-17 years and is a BMW specific mechanic. I go and see him all the time and look at all kinds of BMW cars over the years. I personal noticed that cars from around 6+ years old seemed to have the problem I stated before. I asked him if it was just me or did they seem to not hold up as well as you would think a car that cost that much should and he said that they aren't the best in that department. And he's about the biggest Bimmer troll I know.
My info isn't false but just and observation of many cars I've observed over the years. I'm not saying that if you buy a BMW it's dash WILL blow up in 10 years. But if I got one it would be something I'd worry about myself.
But you are the know it all on this site. I should know better than to question or dispute your vast knowledge of the automobile. I mean you have had over 100 cars in your life time and I've only worked on them for over 14+ years so WTF do I know? I never get in and out of hundreds of cars a month so how would I know what problems some cars seem to have more than others?
Please don't get mad at me and track me down in your rascal and give the the thrashing of my lifetime. Pompous ass jerk wad.
Quote from: JYODER240 on October 22, 2007, 08:16:39 PM
I agree those years of Lexus are clearly better built and have better materials than the competition. I think they've slacked a little on their more recent stuff and are trying to live off their reputation.
The Newest LS shows no real improvements over its predecessor in terms of build quality or detail...infact, it seems to have slipped, slightly.
Quote from: 93JC on October 23, 2007, 11:33:37 AM
You can delude yourself into believing whatever you want. Toyota will laugh to the bank regardless.
Ahhh but this is not about their profit margins. This is about the build quality of their cars. I simply stated that they were not better than Mercedes of the time. I never said they sold poorly.
Quote from: Submariner on October 23, 2007, 04:08:03 PM
The Newest LS shows no real improvements over its predecessor in terms of build quality or detail...infact, it seems to have slipped, slightly.
I'd agree with build quality but not with detail.
Quote from: Raza on October 23, 2007, 08:56:11 AM
Okay, here's the hypothetical. The BMW is better. But only by a little (let's say 5%). But it costs 25% more. Would you still buy it? What if it costs 50% more? 100% more? If so, you're a fool.
The argument isn't whether or not the car is marginally better. The argument is whether it's worth the extra money.
If I sit down and decide that I can comfortably spend $45,000 on a car (and I'd never buy a car that I couldn't comfortably afford), I'm not going to go with my second choice just to save 10 grand. Go ahead, call me a fool, but it's no less foolish than any of us not buying Yaris hatchbacks.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on October 23, 2007, 08:12:11 PM
If I sit down and decide that I can comfortably spend $45,000 on a car (and I'd never buy a car that I couldn't comfortably afford), I'm not going to go with my second choice just to save 10 grand. Go ahead, call me a fool, but it's no less foolish than any of us not buying Yaris hatchbacks.
Damn fool.
I'm with you on that.
Quote from: JYODER240 on October 23, 2007, 05:20:25 PM
I'd agree with build quality but not with detail.
Compared to the A8 or S-class...yes.
Quote from: Submariner on October 23, 2007, 08:27:51 PM
Compared to the A8 or S-class...yes.
You said over its predecessor. That's what I was refering to.
Quote from: JYODER240 on October 23, 2007, 08:48:34 PM
You said over its predecessor. That's what I was refering to.
Ahh...I see.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 23, 2007, 06:00:21 AM
Bull shit.
A good car is a good car regardless of how many races or inventions the manufacture has made in the past. How the hell does prestige help you after you buy a Jag and it leaves you on the side of the road?
Quality aside, we're talking about BRAND PRESTIGE here. Lexus can be the most reliable car in the world, but that doesn't make them prestigeous in any way. They're just reliable, that's it.Quote from: Onslaught on October 23, 2007, 06:00:21 AMI'm fully aware that MB has done many great things in the past and present. But that's not enough to say that others can't make something just as good as they do. Hell, Hyundai could make a better car.
I know that they have been around longer and have a more"prestigious" history. But in the end it makes no difference in the quality of the current cars sold.
All I am saying is that the history of Mercedes gives them an edge in the prestige department above many car manufacturers, particularly Lexus etc. If Hyundai makes a great car, that's good for them, but that doesn't mean they have more brand prestige than Mercedes. Brand prestige can be defined by past and present achievements (in many areas such as motorsport, safety, innovations etc.), global appeal, quality etc.
Quote from: 93JC on October 23, 2007, 11:33:37 AM
He's a tow-truck driver...
So? Possibly has a Lexus fetish. :devil:
:lol: :cheers:Quote from: 93JC on October 23, 2007, 11:33:37 AMExactly. What separated the 'omnibus' from ever other car at the time? The BODY. Netphener could just as easily have picked some other car to put their body on.
A small Omnibus could have passed for a small "van" in those days, that's all.Quote from: 93JC on October 23, 2007, 11:33:37 AMMercedes-Benz, corporately, tends to overexaggerate in such claims. I suppose you think The first cars to have ABS and airbags were Mercedes-Benzes? That's what they would have you believe, but it's not true.
Any real car enthusiast will know that Mercedes-Benz was the first to use ABS in the mass-produced W116 S-Class beginning in 1972. The ABS claim lies on the S-Class class, the upper luxury class segment where MB was the first to use it. Chrysler used it in what, 1971 on some of their cars? Furthermore in the mid 1930s, I know that Mercedes and the Robert Bosch company worked together on a crude ABS system which actually saw service on some Mercedes' cars, notably the heavy 770. Source: "Faszination Mercedes-Benz" by Trevor Legate.Quote from: 93JC on October 23, 2007, 11:33:37 AMThe whole reason I keep prodding you on in this thread is to play devil's advocate: I don't like Lexus, I don't like Mercedes-Benz. I'm trying to make a point, because frankly, on behalf of the rest of the forum, we're sick and fucking tired of the idiotic trolling.
Oh please, I am not trolling. When I told Treppy that Mercedes "invented" the minivan, I was looking to firstly piss him off a bit. :tounge:
Let me come clean. Mercedes didn't exactly invent the minivan but they invented a similar concept that evolved into the minivan.
Oh yeah, and after World War II Mercedes produced these 170V "Kastenwagens" which were classified as "panel vans": a concept that evolved into cars such as the Sprinter or L409 series.
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x307/cawimmer430MB02/MBMuseum08/MBM_246.jpg)Quote from: 93JC on October 23, 2007, 11:33:37 AMYou need to understand and accept this: we don't give a fuck. We don't give a fuck if Mercedes-Benz has more racing wins, more 'innovations' throughout its history, blah blah blah, etc. No one cares. No one cares about what you think about Lexus. You made your point a LONG time ago.
I know that. :rolleyes:
My point in this case is that the history of Mercedes makes them more prestigeous than Lexus anyday. Lexus is where they are because of Toyota's financial backing and because they began making cars in the late 1980s when anyone could build a car. In the late 19th century things were different, yet Benz & Cie. / DMG pulled through with innovations, motorsport success etc. etc. etc.
This is my point: MB PWNS LEXUS WHEN IT COMES TO BRAND PRESTIGE.Quote from: 93JC on October 23, 2007, 11:33:37 AMAccept these facts:
- we don't care about Mercedes-Benz's prestige
- we don't care about Lexus' prestige
- we don't care who has more prestige
- we don't care who has less prestige
So shut the fuck up about it.
:praise:
I know what you're trying to say. But to be honest I just don't give a fuck.
This could have been a post just about the looks of the M3 you posted. But like many post you had to throw a jab at Lexus in it and to be honest it's getting just a little old.
We all know what you think of them. We all know the joke by now. And making fun of them on occasion would be one thing but all the time is another. Some of us don't
hate Toyota and some of us even like some of the cars that they offer. I'm not trying to be a jerk off about it.
Heres an interesting pic of an M coupe near my house.. My house is a few miles from the firestorm in OC.
http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/2007/10/23/fire.bbc2.jpg