The Norwegian govt. has decided to abolish most taxes on importing cars 20 years or older.
That opens up some interesting possibilities for cars that were previously uneconomical to import (especially reasonably priced gas guzzlers)
C5 Corvette is the obvious choice.
Also, I kind of like the old Panther platform cars.
Any other gems from that era?
What else could be worth getting?
If the C5 is on the list than the Viper and Cobra Mustangs of the time probably should be too. I'm a big fan of the Terminator Mustangs of that era.
If you care about pickups, the F-150 Lightning and the Ram R/T10 are pretty awesomely obnoxious too.
(http://i.imgur.com/mdzeLcX.jpg?2)
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 24, 2019, 03:12:38 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/mdzeLcX.jpg?2)
:lol:
I was thinking about suggesting the S2K but figured he could probably easily get one from the UK.
E46 M3 and E39 M5 also come to mind, but maintenance costs = :cry:
4th gen Camaro Z-28 (and SS if you could) by a country mile over everything - all-aluminum LS1 (305 - 320 hp), 6sp M/T, Torsen limited slip, and won't creak and rattle nearly as much as the C5:
(https://cdn1.mecum.com/auctions/sc0512/sc0512-125388/images/sc0512-125388_1.jpg?1337193269000)
Quote from: Xer0 on January 24, 2019, 03:13:29 PM
:lol:
I was thinking about suggesting the S2K but figured he could probably easily get one from the UK.
Oh, were the aforementioned import taxes for US vehicles only?
Here's a great modern-day review of the 2000 Camaro SS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbTuTOPESS0
Tax lift is for cars of any nationality, but it would probably make more sense to pick up German/euro cars from Germany.
S2K is an interesting proposition, but there are already a few available here.
The Camaro is OK, but I'd have problems picking it over a C5. The Firebird is too ugly, imo.
SUV/truck would be cool also, but I'd prefer a diesel which I suppose is pretty rare.
The SN94 Mustangs look very dated now, I think.
Wait, isn't Norway banning the internal combustion engine by 2030 - or is that Sweden?
Of all the Ford SVT vehicles, the 5.4 supercharged Lightning truck was my favorite. It has low end torque none of the others had.
....although the terminator is pretty bad ass. Only available from 03, though.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on January 24, 2019, 03:41:01 PM
Wait, isn't Norway banning the internal combustion engine by 2030 - or is that Sweden?
They have an ambition to go all zero pollution at some time, but it will depend on such cars being avilable in all segments. It will only affect new cars, though.
(https://d32c3oe4bky4k6.cloudfront.net/articles-videos/-/media/uscamediasite/images/story-images/2017/11/95-impala-ss-mecum(1).ashx?modified=20171121195534&mw=1440&hash=EBC0B9F276E2517593F2021F743E7D396F97DB4F)
Quote from: 2o6 on January 24, 2019, 04:28:38 PM
(https://d32c3oe4bky4k6.cloudfront.net/articles-videos/-/media/uscamediasite/images/story-images/2017/11/95-impala-ss-mecum(1).ashx?modified=20171121195534&mw=1440&hash=EBC0B9F276E2517593F2021F743E7D396F97DB4F)
Ohhhh, solid.
Also, on that note:
(http://performance.ford.com/content/fordracing/home/enthusiasts/collector-vehicles/mercury/marauder/2003/_jcr_content/fr-contentItem/image.img.jpg/1486274870163.jpg)
Mercury Marauder...
(https://i.postimg.cc/PrptwK13/maxresdefault.jpg)
Marauder is a lame copy cat.
E36 M3.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 24, 2019, 04:39:56 PM
Ohhhh, solid.
Also, on that note:
(http://performance.ford.com/content/fordracing/home/enthusiasts/collector-vehicles/mercury/marauder/2003/_jcr_content/fr-contentItem/image.img.jpg/1486274870163.jpg)
You beat me.
Quote from: mzziaz on January 24, 2019, 03:35:45 PM
Tax lift is for cars of any nationality, but it would probably make more sense to pick up German/euro cars from Germany.
S2K is an interesting proposition, but there are already a few available here.
The Camaro is OK, but I'd have problems picking it over a C5. The Firebird is too ugly, imo.
SUV/truck would be cool also, but I'd prefer a diesel which I suppose is pretty rare.
Diesel trucks of that era are not rare, but they are rare in smaller-than-F350-crewcab size and with less than 300,000 miles on them.
The Panther cars have a bit of a cult following, but unless you're really into, you're going to find the overall experience disappointing.
C4/C5 Corvettes are probably the best bet. The Syclone/Typhoon trucks might interest you too.
C5 Corvette is clearly the best choice mentioned so far. I wouldn't touch a C4 unless I got it as a beater for under two geez.
Late 90s was actually kind of a shitty time for fun cars
Japan basically died, outside of the C5 domestics were.........
And Germans were at peak unreliability. But yea C5 is the obvious pick
You could totally get a Dodge (Neon) SRT-4, but good luck finding one that isn't ruined.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7842/32991167858_04962f6eba_h.jpg)
(http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/41011621.jpg)
basically like mine, except i had a white pinstripe that the dealer added on and charged me four thousand dollars for
(https://cdn04.carsforsale.com/3/478577/9920231/877997517.jpg)
just weld the camshafts
Can't go wrong with the C5 or the F Body LS1 cars. Don't touch that Marauder tho! It's a stone compared to Impala SS.........
Quote from: GoCougs on January 24, 2019, 03:20:43 PM
Here's a great modern-day review of the 2000 Camaro SS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbTuTOPESS0
Brings back memories of road trips in my '94/'99 Z28s.......
so much excite
(http://radkamaric.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/1995-Oldsmobile-Aurora_5.jpg)
or did they all get turned in to cash for clunkers?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 24, 2019, 06:47:43 PM
so much excite
(http://radkamaric.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/1995-Oldsmobile-Aurora_5.jpg)
or did they all get turned in to cash for clunkers?
I haven't seen one of those in over a decade! LOL!!!!
Quote from: 68_427 on January 24, 2019, 06:21:32 PM
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7842/32991167858_04962f6eba_h.jpg)
Love that color! So rare, unfortunelately
Quote from: 2o6 on January 24, 2019, 04:28:38 PM
(https://d32c3oe4bky4k6.cloudfront.net/articles-videos/-/media/uscamediasite/images/story-images/2017/11/95-impala-ss-mecum(1).ashx?modified=20171121195534&mw=1440&hash=EBC0B9F276E2517593F2021F743E7D396F97DB4F)
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 24, 2019, 04:39:56 PM
Ohhhh, solid.
Also, on that note:
(http://performance.ford.com/content/fordracing/home/enthusiasts/collector-vehicles/mercury/marauder/2003/_jcr_content/fr-contentItem/image.img.jpg/1486274870163.jpg)
Interesting in their day but unfortunately both are dog slow today - would be lucky to keep pace with the non-V6 Camry/Accord or the average full-size half-ton. The Impala SS is the better car though, esp. owing to modibility.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 25, 2019, 09:42:25 AM
Interesting in their day but unfortunately both are dog slow today - would be lucky to keep pace with the non-V6 Camry/Accord or the average full-size half-ton. The Impala SS is the better car though, esp. owing to modibility.
For someone who whats a slower, more bloated looking boulevard cruiser, yeah, I guess the Impala SS would be seen as the better car. :huh:
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 25, 2019, 10:38:19 AM
For someone who whats a slower, more bloated looking boulevard cruiser, yeah, I guess the Impala SS would be seen as the better car. :huh:
Nah, while the Marauder was more buttoned down the Impala SS was quicker (and far more mod friendly), as the Marauder suffered greatly due to lackluster power band + 4,300 lb car + 4sp AT:
From C&D: (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15136621/2003-mercury-marauder-road-test/)
Impala SS:
0-60: 6.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.0 sec @ 92 mph
Top speed: 142 mph
Mercury Marauder:
0-60: 7.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.5 sec @ 91 mph
Top speed: 117 mph (governed, due to drive shaft)
EDIT: Note that the Marauder was a 10-year newer design (first year for Impala SS was 1994).
1996 Buick Roadmaster wagon?
My grandpa had one. When my dad did an estate sale, someone came and bought it instantly. I wish we would have kept it. It was mint and very low mileage. Wood paneling and a third row seat. Lots of good memories in that car.
Yeah the Maurader was considered pretty tepid even when brand new.
This thread is a great reminder of how mediocre American cars from that era were.
Even the C5 I test drove was pretty blah other than straight-line speed, IMO.
Late 90s were a dark time
Some bright spots... mainly from Honda and BMW. Industry really got its mojo back in the mid aughts
Quote from: GoCougs on January 25, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
Nah, while the Marauder was more buttoned down the Impala SS was quicker (and far more mod friendly), as the Marauder suffered greatly due to lackluster power band + 4,300 lb car + 4sp AT:
From C&D: (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15136621/2003-mercury-marauder-road-test/)
Impala SS:
0-60: 6.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.0 sec @ 92 mph
Top speed: 142 mph
Mercury Marauder:
0-60: 7.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.5 sec @ 91 mph
Top speed: 117 mph (governed, due to drive shaft)
EDIT: Note that the Marauder was a 10-year newer design (first year for Impala SS was 1994).
Oddly, you're right :huh:. With 50 more bhp, you'd think the Marauder would be quicker. Of course, it's torque that's king on the strip. The governed top speed is questionable, though a Kenny Brown Marauder takes care of all the gripes; if you really want a cool boulevard cruiser.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 25, 2019, 12:02:09 PM
Late 90s were a dark time
Some bright spots... mainly from Honda and BMW. Industry really got its mojo back in the mid aughts
Heh, someone else mentioned in the "late 90s dark ages" in another thread. I was gonna respond with a list of cars I liked from that era until I realized that they're pretty much all Hondas and BMWs. :lol:
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 25, 2019, 01:05:43 PM
a Kenny Brown Marauder takes care of all the gripes; if you really want a cool boulevard cruiser.
Panthers will never be cool in my eyes. They just scream "beat to hell surplus police car."
Quote from: Laconian on January 25, 2019, 01:15:31 PM
Panthers will never be cool in my eyes. They just scream "beat to hell surplus police car."
You're not 75 years old :huh:.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 25, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
Nah, while the Marauder was more buttoned down the Impala SS was quicker (and far more mod friendly), as the Marauder suffered greatly due to lackluster power band + 4,300 lb car + 4sp AT:
From C&D: (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15136621/2003-mercury-marauder-road-test/)
Impala SS:
0-60: 6.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.0 sec @ 92 mph
Top speed: 142 mph
Mercury Marauder:
0-60: 7.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.5 sec @ 91 mph
Top speed: 117 mph (governed, due to drive shaft)
EDIT: Note that the Marauder was a 10-year newer design (first year for Impala SS was 1994).
The top speed limit is easily deactivated.
Quote from: Laconian on January 25, 2019, 01:15:31 PM
Panthers will never be cool in my eyes. They just scream "beat to hell surplus police car."
Probably have a completely different reaction in Norway though.
mzziaz said in the first post it was cars older than 20 years. So get a car that will rise in value, be fun to drive, and most of all, be able to get parts for, even in Europe.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/1st_Ford_Mustang_coupe.jpg)
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 25, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
The top speed limit is easily deactivated.
Driveshaft is easily asploded.
Quote from: shp4man on January 25, 2019, 01:41:17 PM
mzziaz said in the first post it was cars older than 20 years. So get a car that will rise in value, be fun to drive, and most of all, be able to get parts for, even in Europe.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/1st_Ford_Mustang_coupe.jpg)
Good point, so ...
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/mineral-bluff-70-gto-455-auto/6794514313.html
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/d/boaz-rare-1972-oldsmobile-cutlass/6803575376.html
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/d/peoria-1971-plymouth-cuda/6803227727.html
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/d/mary-esther-1974-trans-am-lengine/6786659964.html
I'd go for this...
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/los-angeles-1970-oldsmobile-442-with/6768284369.html (https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/los-angeles-1970-oldsmobile-442-with/6768284369.html)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wM4Jps14/00-I0-I-2-Gz96l-Dt-T7-R-600x450.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rss0QFf1/00-A0-A-d7-Wm-Rcj-ICjb-600x450.jpg)
Nice cars all. But that sweet little 289 with a C4 automatic. Oh ya. :ohyeah:
64 Mustangs are both pricey and a bit of a clichè, imo.
Miata/MR2/300zx are some nice Nippon alternatives
(https://ccmarketplace.azureedge.net/cc-temp/listing/107/8731/11408223-1993-ford-lightning-std.jpg)
20 years old this year:
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/amv-prod-cad-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/images/01q2/267337/2001-ford-svt-f-150-lighning-instrumented-test-car-and-driver-photo-9750-s-original.jpg)
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 25, 2019, 02:31:12 PM
I'd go for this...
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/los-angeles-1970-oldsmobile-442-with/6768284369.html (https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/los-angeles-1970-oldsmobile-442-with/6768284369.html)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wM4Jps14/00-I0-I-2-Gz96l-Dt-T7-R-600x450.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rss0QFf1/00-A0-A-d7-Wm-Rcj-ICjb-600x450.jpg)
Totally legit. The lesser known muscle cars; from GM and elsewhere; very cool - Buick GSX, 2nd gen GTO, Mercury Cyclone, etc.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 25, 2019, 02:35:49 PM
Seems unlikely.
V6 S197 Mustangs were also listed to around 115 mph due to driveshaft limitations. Numerous videos on YouTube of owners who removed their top speed limiter and had their driveshafts come apart during high speed runs (or on dynos).
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 25, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
The top speed limit is easily deactivated.
Just because it can be doesn't mean it should be. You can prob run NANKANG all seasons on a Veyron too.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 25, 2019, 03:45:32 PM
Just because it can be doesn't mean it should be. You can prob run NANKANG all seasons on a Veyron too.
Nankang tires are pretty good now.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 25, 2019, 03:45:32 PM
Just because it can be doesn't mean it should be. You can prob run NANKANG all seasons on a Veyron too.
NANKANG? We got a rich man over thee.
You mean Westlake
Quote from: 2o6 on January 25, 2019, 04:41:34 PM
NANKANG? We got a rich man over thee.
You mean Westlake
I'll run retreads, but I won't run Westlakes.
E46 M3 CSL
Audi TT Quattro
996 Turbo
Quote from: mzziaz on January 24, 2019, 11:28:17 PM
Love that color! So rare, unfortunelately
I agree. That's my favorite color for a 'Vette.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 25, 2019, 01:11:23 PM
Heh, someone else mentioned in the "late 90s dark ages" in another thread. I was gonna respond with a list of cars I liked from that era until I realized that they're pretty much all Hondas and BMWs. :lol:
What about Saab? That was the time when their redesign broke them out of the egghead college professor from Comnecticut crowd and they became pretty popular. I considered Saab before getting my BMW.
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 25, 2019, 02:31:12 PM
I'd go for this...
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/los-angeles-1970-oldsmobile-442-with/6768284369.html (https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/los-angeles-1970-oldsmobile-442-with/6768284369.html)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wM4Jps14/00-I0-I-2-Gz96l-Dt-T7-R-600x450.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rss0QFf1/00-A0-A-d7-Wm-Rcj-ICjb-600x450.jpg)
Now we're talking....Thismis a great car, a close cousin to the early 70s Chevelle.
Porsche 996. Not a well loved 911, but that means you can still get a good one for under $20k, and they're still fantastic driving cars.
This one has 85,000 miles, 6 speed manual, for $18,000...
Quote from: Rockraven on January 26, 2019, 07:08:52 AM
Porsche 996. Not a well loved 911, but that means you can still get a good one for under $20k, and they're still fantastic driving cars.
This one has 85,000 miles, 6 speed manual, for $18,000...
Pretty sure 996s are widely available in Europe. I think the point was to import something that was never offered in that market.
Quote from: MX793 on January 26, 2019, 08:22:12 AM
Pretty sure 996s are widely available in Europe. I think the point was to import something that was never offered in that market.
Ah ok.
...
Quote from: Rockraven on January 26, 2019, 08:41:16 AM
...
I had one of those, a '78. It got around 12 mpg. Nothing would stop it though.
Quote from: dazzleman on January 26, 2019, 06:54:29 AM
What about Saab? That was the time when their redesign broke them out of the egghead college professor from Comnecticut crowd and they became pretty popular. I considered Saab before getting my BMW.
They were certainly better than American cars of that era. :lol:
I wasn't a huge fan of the first gen 9-3's styling at the time, though I think it's aged fairly well. 9-5s were always pretty handsome cars. I test drove a 9-5 Aero when my old Accord got flooded and I assumed that it was going to be totalled, and liked it a lot.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 26, 2019, 09:42:41 AM
They were certainly better than American cars of that era. :lol:
I wasn't a huge fan of the first gen 9-3's styling at the time, though I think it's aged fairly well. 9-5s were always pretty handsome cars. I test drove a 9-5 Aero when my old Accord got flooded and I assumed that it was going to be totalled, and liked it a lot.
The 9-5 was the model that I was looking at. Some time in the late 1990s, I noticed that they were really popular in my area, and that Saab had shed the egghead styling for which it was known in earlier years. It was a pretty handsome car. What dissuaded me from getting the car was stories I heard of major mechanical malfunctions when the car was relatively new. There was this mentality that this was one of the "quirks" of owning a Saab, and that it was part of the car's charm. I didn't really agree -- When I need to go somewhere, I want the car to start and get me there without incident, and I don't want to be doing major repairs when the car is a year or two old.
Quote from: mzziaz on January 24, 2019, 03:55:42 PM
They have an ambition to go all zero pollution at some time, but it will depend on such cars being avilable in all segments. It will only affect new cars, though.
That sucks. I see the Greens are ru[ i ][n]ning your country as well!
Here there is serious talk of introducing speed limits on the Autobahn - a pathetic 130 km/h. How people are gonna stay away at that speed is beyond my understanding... :tounge: :cry:
How reasonably priced is reasonably priced?
(https://img.memecdn.com/dodge-viper-gts-coupe_o_953849.jpg)
Were the Japanese sports cars originally imported?
(http://www.carsaddiction.com/files/cars/99_Nissan_Skyline_GT-R_R34.jpg)
(https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/jpg/200511/1979-toyota-supra-13.jpg)
(https://cdntdreditorials.azureedge.net/cache/2/5/e/8/2/e/25e82eaaa270db25eb73237f031b06a796fb30aa.jpg)
Yikes, did someone crossbreed a FD with a S2000 there? Those fixed headlights aren't stock, are they?
Quote from: Laconian on January 27, 2019, 03:06:39 PM
Yikes, did someone crossbreed a FD with a S2000 there? Those fixed headlights aren't stock, are they?
Later FDs had those but they aren't headlights- they still have popup headlights. Honestly I like those a lot, more than the earlier FD.
Lol, it's the low camera angle.
I'm gonna go with whack focal length (probably short):
(http://annawu.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/focal-16-vs-200-900x299.jpg)
Yearlier FDs had different shaped lights there too.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Mazda-RX-7-FD.jpg/1200px-Mazda-RX-7-FD.jpg)
Post facelift from a normal angle.
(https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/gallery/MAZDARX-7-FD--935_12.jpg)
I'd like to keep the budget at $15k for a low mileage, clean car. That rules out the Supra/Viper, I think. Not sure if I want to roll the dice on a rotary.
How about a mn12 Thunderbird?
Looks good, probably cheap, IRS, manual, V8 or supercharged V6:
(https://www.cheatsheet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/1990-Ford-Thunderbird-MS1990.jpg)
Quote from: mzziaz on January 28, 2019, 10:48:44 AM
I'd like to keep the budget at $15k for a low mileage, clean car. That rules out the Supra/Viper, I think. Not sure if I want to roll the dice on a rotary.
How about a mn12 Thunderbird?
Looks good, probably cheap, IRS, manual, V8 or supercharged V6:
(https://www.cheatsheet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/1990-Ford-Thunderbird-MS1990.jpg)
Looks good? Mate, they were dated when they were new.
Its been a long time since I saw one of those that wasn't beat to hell and back.
I've never seen one with a stick; I see that one was offered, but never seen one.
The Cougar XR7 was the more attractive twin, also came with a stick.
(http://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/91161091990511.jpg)
Quote from: mzziaz on January 28, 2019, 10:48:44 AM
I'd like to keep the budget at $15k for a low mileage, clean car. That rules out the Supra/Viper, I think. Not sure if I want to roll the dice on a rotary.
How about a mn12 Thunderbird?
Looks good, probably cheap, IRS, manual, V8 or supercharged V6:
Unless you just want something different for the sake of being different, save your money. Anything from that era under $15k that's worth the trouble of importing is already available in Europe.
...
What's the year cut-off? I see a few Pontiac GTOs, V8 + manual, in your price range. I think 2004 is the first year for them though.
Quote from: Speed_Racer on January 28, 2019, 11:25:05 AM
The Cougar XR7 was the more attractive twin, also came with a stick.
(http://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/91161091990511.jpg)
It looks like a regular car backed into a Lego car. Yikes.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 28, 2019, 01:11:07 PM
What's the year cut-off? I see a few Pontiac GTOs, V8 + manual, in your price range. I think 2004 is the first year for them though.
Yeah, that'd be a good choice if it works. Head and shoulders above the Mustang of that era.
What about a Trans Am?
I had the pleasure of putting a few miles on one of those Australian GTO's. Somebody traded it in. It was a stick, too. Lot's of fun. :ohyeah:
Quote from: Speed_Racer on January 28, 2019, 11:25:05 AM
The Cougar XR7 was the more attractive twin, also came with a stick.
(http://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/91161091990511.jpg)
LOL. That pick is taken right outside the studio for Grace & Wilde (an ad firm that works with cars)
(coincidentally a lot of screen shots of nav systems also show this address, or BBDO's on 8 mile in Farmington.
Quote from: Speed_Racer on January 28, 2019, 11:25:05 AM
The Cougar XR7 was the more attractive twin, also came with a stick.
(http://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/91161091990511.jpg)
That "formal roofline" looks like garbage.
Quote from: Submariner on January 28, 2019, 04:42:54 PM
That "formal roofline" looks like garbage.
Yeah, where's the imitation leather? I want a proper landeau roof on my America luxury :fogey: :neverforget: :neverforget: :neverforget: :neverforget:
Better?
or...
Quote from: Speed_Racer on January 28, 2019, 11:25:05 AM
The Cougar XR7 was the more attractive twin, also came with a stick.
(http://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/91161091990511.jpg)
The Lincoln MKVIII was the pick of the MN12 litter. 280-290 hp quad cam V8 (vs 205 for the V8 T-bird and Cougar, or 230 for the S/C V6 T-bird). Active suspension that would lower the ride height at speed. I heard a story that a nearly stock example was clocked at 180+ mph at Bonneville.
2000 Lincoln LS...
(https://i.postimg.cc/jjszcqSx/1200px-00-02-Lincoln-LS.jpg)
They were RWD and came with either a 3.0 litre V6 (Jaguar version) or a 3.9 litre V8 (Jaguar DOHC 32 valve). I've seen them listed at around $5,000 CAD.
Quote from: MX793 on January 28, 2019, 06:58:18 PM
The Lincoln MKVIII was the pick of the MN12 litter. 280-290 hp quad cam V8 (vs 205 for the V8 T-bird and Cougar, or 230 for the S/C V6 T-bird). Active suspension that would lower the ride height at speed. I heard a story that a nearly stock example was clocked at 180+ mph at Bonneville.
Technically, that was the FN10 platform.
Quote from: MX793 on January 28, 2019, 06:58:18 PM
The Lincoln MKVIII was the pick of the MN12 litter. 280-290 hp quad cam V8 (vs 205 for the V8 T-bird and Cougar, or 230 for the S/C V6 T-bird). Active suspension that would lower the ride height at speed. I heard a story that a nearly stock example was clocked at 180+ mph at Bonneville.
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/04/24/that-time-lincoln-built-a-land-speed-mark-viii-and-set-a-182-mph-record-at-bonneville/
Also this body style was tested for NASCAR but Ford said NO.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lTkwIJmf4j8/VkRtk4Fyx0I/AAAAAAAABSY/dYJXOeD4TXE/s1600/Lincoln%2B37.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1qPsu6WgAEy7qH.jpg)
The cougar as well, but the roof profile proved to have too little downforce and while fast, it was essentially uncontrollable.
(https://preview.redd.it/3pfvv3ugqps01.jpg?width=800&auto=webp&s=f6302b578c11116c0a1ce9e64ec975cee31a2029)
Quote from: Rockraven on January 28, 2019, 06:11:39 PM
Better?
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/761150256/overview/
I've always liked that gen Seville...and this one has 13k miles!!!
Cut off is 20 years
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 25, 2019, 04:46:20 PM
I'll run retreads, but I won't run Westlakes.
Westlake makes disc golf discs. Same company? :lol:
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 29, 2019, 05:47:37 AM
Westlake makes disc golf discs. Same company? :lol:
I'd switch to retreaded disc golf discs if I were you :lol:
Quote from: Submariner on January 28, 2019, 08:07:19 PM
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/761150256/overview/
I've always liked that gen Seville...and this one has 13k miles!!!
With
The Northstar System!
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 29, 2019, 07:17:27 AM
I'd switch to retreaded disc golf discs if I were you :lol:
LOL Never mind, it's "Westside", but they have cool disc names, just scroll down:
https://westsidediscs.com/category/discs/
Quote from: mzziaz on January 29, 2019, 12:39:48 AM
Cut off is 20 years
Wait a year and get a 2000 Lincoln LS. :huh:
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 29, 2019, 08:33:43 AM
Wait a year and get a 2000 Lincoln LS. :huh:
Again, unless he's looking for something different just for the sake of being different, I don't see why anyone would go through the trouble of importing one of those, especially since it's basically just a Jag S-Type, which I'm assuming he could already get. They were OK for their time, but there's absolutely nothing remarkable about it. Or pretty much anything else mentioned in this thread that's in his budget.
Wait two years and get a C5 Z06. This is the right answer. Something uniquely American but actually worth the trouble.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=untrackedExternal_false_0&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=c400&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=80301&distance=50000&searchChanged=true&trimNames=Z06+Hardtop+Coupe+RWD&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true#listing=230180639
I've made a lot of money working on Lincoln LS's. Just sayin'.
The 84 Tbird was a fairly decent car with the 5.0 V8. Had one.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 29, 2019, 08:45:08 AM
Wait two years and get a C5 Z06. This is the right answer. Something uniquely American but actually worth the trouble.
I agree with this guy.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 29, 2019, 08:45:08 AM
Again, unless he's looking for something different just for the sake of being different, I don't see why anyone would go through the trouble of importing one of those, especially since it's basically just a Jag S-Type, which I'm assuming he could already get. They were OK for their time, but there's absolutely nothing remarkable about it. Or pretty much anything else mentioned in this thread that's in his budget.
They were an interesting car, imo. Pleasant styling with a couple of responsive engines with the option of having a 5 speed manual. As well, they can be had for $5,000 or less.
Another car of that era that I like is the Mazda Millenia. Once again, pleasant styling, an interesting engine and entry level luxu interiors.
(https://i.postimg.cc/14xdMPcH/U9MAGEB1.jpg)
Again, C5 will rattle and squeak like no other, plus the transaxle can be finicky, and it only has two seats. The answer still remains 4th gen Camaro Z/28 or SS:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5009/5250371772_fa8d26fd56_b.jpg)
Once again: Impala SS.
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 29, 2019, 09:23:59 AM
They were an interesting car, imo. Pleasant styling with a couple of responsive engines with the option of having a 5 speed manual. As well, they can be had for $5,000 or less.
My dad had one for 6 or 7 years. It was a decent alternative to a 5er for considerably less money, but as Shippy said, they had some mechanical issues. 20 years later, they're just another mediocre old car. It's a better suggestion than most of the cars in the thread, but still not worth the trouble of getting one from another continent.
If he's gonna get a 20 year old, mid-size sport luxury sedan that has known mechanical issues, he might as well just get an E39. Much better overall vehicle and he won't have to deal with the hassle of importing.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 29, 2019, 09:34:57 AM
Again, C5 will rattle and squeak like no other, plus the transaxle can be finicky, and it only has two seats. The answer still remains 4th gen Camaro Z/28 or SS:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5009/5250371772_fa8d26fd56_b.jpg)
Yeah, but he'll have to grow a mullet to drive the thing. :huh:
Quote from: GoCougs on January 29, 2019, 09:34:57 AM
Again, C5 will rattle and squeak like no other, plus the transaxle can be finicky, and it only has two seats. The answer still remains 4th gen Camaro Z/28 or SS:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5009/5250371772_fa8d26fd56_b.jpg)
And you don't think a 4th generation F-body will rattle and squeak like nothing else? T-top cars will be especially bad.
Quote from: MX793 on January 29, 2019, 09:53:04 AM
And you don't think a 4th generation F-body will rattle and squeak like nothing else? T-top cars will be especially bad.
The mullet absorbs the squeaks and rattles in the Camaro. The C5 does not have that advantage.
Those F-bodies are also absolutely hideous. Yuck.
Does the reborn GTO make the cut or is that too new? That might be a fun car to tinker with.
Quote from: Xer0 on January 29, 2019, 10:01:44 AM
Those F-bodies are also absolutely hideous. Yuck.
Does the reborn GTO make the cut or is that too new? That might be a fun car to tinker with.
No. The GTOs stay here. I still want one, and we don't have enough to share. :rage:
Quote from: Xer0 on January 29, 2019, 10:01:44 AM
Those F-bodies are also absolutely hideous. Yuck.
Does the reborn GTO make the cut or is that too new? That might be a fun car to tinker with.
2004 was the first MY.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 29, 2019, 09:39:18 AM
My dad had one for 6 or 7 years. It was a decent alternative to a 5er for considerably less money, but as Shippy said, they had some mechanical issues. 20 years later, they're just another mediocre old car. It's a better suggestion than most of the cars in the thread, but still not worth the trouble of getting one from another continent.
If he's gonna get a 20 year old, mid-size sport luxury sedan that has known mechanical issues, he might as well just get an E39. Much better overall vehicle and he won't have to deal with the hassle of importing.
I guess it depends on what mzziaz is looking for. I expect an E39 is not uncommon over where he lives. He mentioned Panther bodies, so big boulevard cruisers the likes of an Impala SS or a Marauder with a raucous V8 may appeal more to his style. Tons of upgrades available for both of them. However, I'd advise him to have a close look at the rear quarter panels of the SS before he decides.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 29, 2019, 10:12:18 AM
2004 was the first MY.
Hmm, bummer. C5 is still the answer than.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 29, 2019, 10:07:05 AM
No. The GTOs stay here. I still want one, and we don't have enough to share. :rage:
Looks like you can decent ones for about 15K, thats more than I expected honestly. Future collectible maybe? :hmm:
C5. Either buy one now or wait to get a Z06 like mentioned previously.
Everything else mentioned is a POS that isn't worth the effort, or has been available to import already. An Olds 442 is awesome and you should get one, but it doesn't necessarily make sense given the point of this thread.
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 29, 2019, 10:33:09 AM
I guess it depends on what mzziaz is looking for. I expect an E39 is not uncommon over where he lives. He mentioned Panther bodies, so big boulevard cruisers the likes of an Impala SS or a Marauder with a raucous V8 may appeal more to his style. Tons of upgrades available for both of them. However, I'd advise him to have a close look at the rear quarter panels of the SS before he decides.
Personally, I'm not into those souped up cop cars, but at least they're something that's actually unique in Europe.
The LS is just a not-as-good version of a European sport-sedan. The only thing it has going for it is that he'll be the only person he knows with one.
Remember, he imported a fox-body Mustang. Per also tried to buy an Alfa in Michigan, but lost it because his local agent didn't act fast enough.
So we know he can tolerate '80s build quality and features, which the Panthers have mostly improved on. They'd also be unique enough to turn heads.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 29, 2019, 11:19:02 AM
Personally, I'm not into those souped up cop cars, but at least they're something that's actually unique in Europe.
The LS is just a not-as-good version of a European sport-sedan. The only thing it has going for it is that he'll be the only person he knows with one.
That may be the point.
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 29, 2019, 11:32:04 AM
That may be the point.
Yup. :ohyeah:
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 28, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Unless you just want something different for the sake of being different,
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 29, 2019, 08:45:08 AM
Again, unless he's looking for something different just for the sake of being different,
But I can't imagine that C5s are terribly common either. I think that they would be different enough while also being something actually worth driving. :lol:
Quote from: 2o6 on January 29, 2019, 09:36:55 AM
Once again: Impala SS.
Second best to the Z/28 or SS.
Quote from: MX793 on January 29, 2019, 09:53:04 AM
And you don't think a 4th generation F-body will rattle and squeak like nothing else? T-top cars will be especially bad.
Then don't get t-tops ;). It will squeak and rattle, but not like a C5.
As has been the case since 1967, the Camaro is always the better (and IMO more desirable) used car vs. the Corvette - body integrity, build quality, modibility, utility, durability (esp. rear transaxle C5+).
Unfortunately non t-top F Bodies are also not exactly common.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 29, 2019, 12:06:09 PM
Second best to the Z/28 or SS.
Who cares? He wants something distinctly American and something you can't get readily in NW Europe.
An Impala SS seems like the ticket. It's big, BOF, and V8.
He might as well get a regular..... Caprice?
The more I think about it the more Panthers make sense though. Cheap, abundant, American
The only thing from that era, '95-'00 that I would recommend without guilt is a Blazer or Bronco.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 29, 2019, 12:34:27 PM
The only thing from that era, '95-'00 that I would recommend without guilt is a Blazer or Bronco.
wat
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 29, 2019, 12:39:52 PM
wat
Seriously. There's not a single domestic car from those years that I'd recommend him to buy. Maybe a C5, but it's not going to be a good one for $13,000.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 29, 2019, 12:42:09 PM
Seriously. There's not a single domestic car from those years that I'd recommend him to buy. Maybe a C5, but it's not going to be a good one for $13,000.
I'd say a '98 Dodge Dakota is a good choice. Two of them, one for parts (cuz they break).
Maybe a black Formula Firehawk so he can pretend to be the Dark Knight or Knight Rider.
What's more American than a Jeep? Beware, these vehicles hold their value really well. A nice 2000 Wrangler will set you back an incredible ten grand or so.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 29, 2019, 11:31:07 AM
Remember, he imported a fox-body Mustang. Per also tried to buy an Alfa in Michigan, but lost it because his local agent didn't act fast enough.
So we know he can tolerate '80s build quality and features, which the Panthers have mostly improved on. They'd also be unique enough to turn heads.
Yeah, I like oddballs. Also, panthers is kind of familiar to a lot of yurps from movies and such. Combined with a pretty big amcar culture, there might actually be a market for shipping them over.
Quote from: Submariner on January 28, 2019, 08:07:19 PM
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/761150256/overview/
I've always liked that gen Seville...and this one has 13k miles!!!
FWD is a deal breaker to me.
Quote from: mzziaz on January 29, 2019, 01:15:27 PM
FWD is a deal breaker to me.
RWD? Then you need a Cadillac Catera.
Which was based on an Opel.
From Europe.
:lol:
Quote from: mzziaz on January 29, 2019, 01:11:41 PM
Yeah, I like oddballs. Also, panthers is kind of familiar to a lot of yurps from movies and such. Combined with a pretty big amcar culture, there might actually be a market for shipping them over.
If you can deal with them driving like big American cars, they might be the ticket.
Quote from: mzziaz on January 29, 2019, 01:15:27 PM
FWD is a deal breaker to me.
Maybe the RWD STS? You can get decent examples for 15k or so.
Quote from: Submariner on January 29, 2019, 01:43:54 PM
Maybe the RWD STS? You can get decent examples for 15k or so.
Too new. Nothing built after 2000.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 29, 2019, 01:27:55 PM
If you can deal with them driving like big American cars, they might be the ticket.
The Lincolns are best. Town Car .... or Mk.VIII
Quote from: GoCougs on January 25, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
Nah, while the Marauder was more buttoned down the Impala SS was quicker (and far more mod friendly), as the Marauder suffered greatly due to lackluster power band + 4,300 lb car + 4sp AT:
From C&D: (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15136621/2003-mercury-marauder-road-test/)
Impala SS:
0-60: 6.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.0 sec @ 92 mph
Top speed: 142 mph
Mercury Marauder:
0-60: 7.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.5 sec @ 91 mph
Top speed: 117 mph (governed, due to drive shaft)
EDIT: Note that the Marauder was a 10-year newer design (first year for Impala SS was 1994).
That's a pretty optimistic 0-60 time. Motor Trend has it listed at 8 seconds, which seems much more reasonable given 250HP + 4300lbs + 4AT.
1998-2000 are likely the best panthers to look for. They had made improvements to handling in 1998 and, by that time, they were almost bullet-proof. Ford Crown Vics, Mercury Marquis and Lincoln Town Cars are what you have to choose from. Should still be lots of them around. Get Shippy's opinion on the 4.6 modular engine, but they were/are very stout and reliable.
Quote from: MX793 on January 29, 2019, 01:47:33 PM
Too new. Nothing built after 2000.
Oh.
Panther-body cars are awful. I mean, so are F-bodies but they definitely have a certain appeal, but the Panther cars are the real deal. They're garbage. Even the top shelf Town Car felt like a poorly screwed together turd the moment it left the factory. Luxury cars for people with no taste and no soul. That's why the mob loved them.
I think a well sorted C5 is your best bet. The Lincoln LS is just a re-bodied Jag that isn't as good as a comparable 5er. There is nothing remarkable about the Thunderbird, and it's inbred Mercury cousin is just an ugly Thunderbird, plus I'd never trust a 20+ year old air suspension which many of the top trim cars came with.
The 996 Nick mentioned is nice (I'd go for a C4S coupe but w/e) but that isn't American exclusive. The Chevelle and 442 are obviously "cool" but I'm not sure what kind of condition car you can get for your budget.
The C5 is going to be rare enough and has a huge aftermarket + fan base. I think that's your best bet.
Quote from: Submariner on January 29, 2019, 02:05:00 PM
That's a pretty optimistic 0-60 time. Motor Trend has it listed at 8 seconds, which seems much more reasonable given 250HP + 4300lbs + 4AT.
Marauder first model year was 2003 so it doesn't fit. Still it's a better choice than the SS boat.
Quote from: Submariner on January 29, 2019, 02:09:24 PM
Oh.
Panther-body cars are awful. I mean, so are F-bodies but they definitely have a certain appeal, but the Panther cars are the real deal. They're garbage. Even the top shelf Town Car felt like a poorly screwed together turd the moment it left the factory. Luxury cars for people with no taste and no soul. That's why the mob loved them.
I think a well sorted C5 is your best bet. The Lincoln LS is just a re-bodied Jag that isn't as good as a comparable 5er. There is nothing remarkable about the Thunderbird, and it's inbred Mercury cousin is just an ugly Thunderbird, plus I'd never trust a 20+ year old air suspension which many of the top trim cars came with.
The 996 Nick mentioned is nice (I'd go for a C4S coupe but w/e) but that isn't American exclusive. The Chevelle and 442 are obviously "cool" but I'm not sure what kind of condition car you can get for your budget.
The C5 is going to be rare enough and has a huge aftermarket + fan base. I think that's your best bet.
Nonsense :nutty:. Thousands of town cars still serve as airport taxis all over North America. They just keep running.
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 29, 2019, 02:13:14 PM
Nonsense :nutty:. Thousands of town cars still serve as airport taxis all over North America. They just keep running.
They still feel like poorly screwed together turds though. It's like Ford figured out how to make a screw that's always loose but never comes completely unscrewed.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 29, 2019, 02:15:40 PM
They still feel like poorly screwed together turds though. It's like Ford figured out how to make a screw that's always loose but never comes completely unscrewed.
Years of experimenting until they got it just right :ohyeah:.
I don't have time right now, but I heard a good story from a Ford insider about the development of the 4.6L Ford V8. It has to do with the downturn in the big defense industry after the Berlin Wall got taken down. ;)
The 4.6 just never feels like it has all of the power that it could. I'd rather have pooprods.
I friggin love these, and missed out on a sweet deal on one because I hesitated. How badass would you look driving this through downtown Oslo? :lol:
https://www.oldcaronline.com/1971-Buick-Riviera-Cadillac-Michigan-for-sale-ID882410.htm
Oh. My. God. :confused:
https://www.oldcaronline.com/1997-Ford-Thunderbird-Lutz-Florida-for-sale-ID841067.htm
Quote from: Rockraven on January 29, 2019, 03:01:20 PM
Oh. My. God. :confused:
https://www.oldcaronline.com/1997-Ford-Thunderbird-Lutz-Florida-for-sale-ID841067.htm
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
Quote from: Rockraven on January 29, 2019, 03:01:20 PM
Oh. My. God. :confused:
https://www.oldcaronline.com/1997-Ford-Thunderbird-Lutz-Florida-for-sale-ID841067.htm
NO, just NO!
(https://i.postimg.cc/63P6TFVK/841067-1.jpg)
:confused: :confused: :confused: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 29, 2019, 02:13:14 PM
Nonsense :nutty:. Thousands of town cars still serve as airport taxis all over North America. They just keep running.
I honestly haven't seen a single Town Car at JFK or Newark the last three or four times I've been. It's all Camry's, Accords's, Altima's, Pathfinders, Continentals and XTS's.
"This is a terrific way to get some attention"
In the same way being put on a sex offender registry does.
Quote from: Submariner on January 29, 2019, 03:54:12 PM
I honestly haven't seen a single Town Car at JFK or Newark the last three or four times I've been. It's all Camry's, Accords's, Altima's, Pathfinders, Continentals and XTS's.
Still thick as giant flies up here.
As for taxis, etc., I know they've been pretty well replaced by the likes of Camry's, et al and we don't ride in taxis often, other than taking the local Town Car Limo to the airport on occasion, but the last time we were in Manhattan, a few years ago for a few days, we did travel around town quite a bit in taxis. One of the first was a Crown Vic, extended I think. It was late at night in the rain. We got into the big back seat and sunk down in the cushions. Very comfortable, easy in and out and floated like a cloud over the bumps and potholes. Another time, it was a Camry. Cracked my head, almost my neck, trying to slide into the back seat. Felt every single bump and pothole on the way to our hotel. Another time, it was some sort of goofy looking Nissan van. Easy enough to get into and out of, but it was riding inside a drum. Thank goodness we got a Town Car to take us to the airport.
(http://www.firebirdgallery.com/4th%20Gen%20Images/99ta18.2.jpg)
(http://www.buyavette.net/New%20Pictures/247203.jpg)
That's as american as I could think of
Quote from: 68_427 on January 29, 2019, 04:11:07 PM
(http://www.firebirdgallery.com/4th%20Gen%20Images/99ta18.2.jpg)
(http://www.buyavette.net/New%20Pictures/247203.jpg)
That's as american as I could think of
Yup! F Bodies, C5 (who cares :huh: about some squeaks in a 20 year old Muscle/Pony car) and the Impala are the only ones I'll think he'll be happy with! Damn for sure he won't like any of the Panther cars mentioned! :nutty:
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 29, 2019, 02:10:22 PM
Marauder first model year was 2003 so it doesn't fit. Still it's a better choice than the SS boat.
Funny you should use the term "Boat" when The last BOAT of that era was using the same Panther Platform as your tarted up police cruiser....
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on January 29, 2019, 07:23:47 PM
Yup! F Bodies, C5 (who cares :huh: about some squeaks in a 20 year old Muscle/Pony car) and the Impala are the only ones I'll think he'll be happy with! Damn for sure he won't like any of the Panther cars mentioned! :nutty:
Pace cars even more so! Honestly my Corvette doesn't have any rattles that I wouldn't expect any 20 year old car to have, and later F bodies were tightened up too :beer:
4th gen Trans Ams were one of my favorite cars when I was a kid. Those nostrils.
Maybe I should get one soon. Either that or a GTO if I want something a bit nicer.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 29, 2019, 07:41:44 PM
4th gen Trans Ams were one of my favorite cars when I was a kid. Those nostrils.
Maybe I should get one soon. Either that or a GTO if I want something a bit nicer.
WS6 prices have gone up in the last couple of years. I remember them being under $10k and now they're around $15k for a clean example, and Firehawks are $20k+
40 years later, I still want a Bandit Trans Am.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 29, 2019, 07:43:10 PM
WS6 prices have gone up in the last couple of years. I remember them being under $10k and now they're around $15k for a clean example, and Firehawks are $20k+
Wow. That's easy GTO money.
Quote from: Submariner on January 29, 2019, 02:09:24 PM
I think a well sorted C5 is your best bet. The Lincoln LS is just a re-bodied Jag that isn't as good as a comparable 5er.
I seem to recall the LS being compared favorably to the E39, particularly in driving dynamics. Interior and refinement wasn't quite up to the BMW's standards, but it was considered the better driving car. And it was a heck of a lot cheaper. IIRC, you could get the V8 Lincoln for what a 528i cost.
You can even get a convertible model...
If you must have a Ford V8, consider having it in a Panoz Esperante, or the earlier Roadster.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 29, 2019, 12:11:34 PM
Then don't get t-tops ;). It will squeak and rattle, but not like a C5.
As has been the case since 1967, the Camaro is always the better (and IMO more desirable) used car vs. the Corvette - body integrity, build quality, modibility, utility, durability (esp. rear transaxle C5+).
The C5 "transaxle" which is just a 4L60 auto or Tremec T56 (same trannies as the F bodies) bolted directly to the differential rather than having a length of driveshaft between? Why exactly would that be inherently more problematic than when there is several feet of extra shaft between them? For that matter, can you point me to some stories of transaxle issues that plagued the C5? I can't seem to find any other than the onesy-twosy issues that you can find for pretty much any car.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 29, 2019, 07:29:07 PM
Pace cars even more so! Honestly my Corvette doesn't have any rattles that I wouldn't expect any 20 year old car to have, and later F bodies were tightened up too :beer:
My '99 Vert was solid as a rock! No rattles or leaks!
Quote from: shp4man on January 29, 2019, 08:47:00 AM
I've made a lot of money working on Lincoln LS's. Just sayin'.
The 84 Tbird was a fairly decent car with the 5.0 V8. Had one.
Anecdotal, but my friend spent a lot of money keeping his Lincoln LS on the road too. Seemed like pieces of junk.
Quote from: Xer0 on January 29, 2019, 10:01:44 AM
Those F-bodies are also absolutely hideous. Yuck.
Does the reborn GTO make the cut or is that too new? That might be a fun car to tinker with.
2004 was the LS1 model, 2005 the LS2. Extra 50 horsepower, a little more extroverted styling, louder exhaust, and, as I recall, the change to the exhaust split it up so it looked like a dual exhaust (the LS1 model had a true dual, but they exited on the same side) and was rerouted to allow for a bigger trunk.
I totally dig the LS2 GTO (and the LS1 wasn't bad either), but he could just get a Monaro which would be easier to get over there. And in Europe, they sold a Monaro VXR500, which supercharged the engine for 500 horsepower. If you feel like going completely insane.
(https://cdn1.evo.co.uk/sites/evo/files/styles/gallery_adv/public/images/dir_422/car_photo_211123.jpg?itok=WF_YDamK)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on January 29, 2019, 07:26:44 PM
Funny you should use the term "Boat" when The last BOAT of that era was using the same Panther Platform as your tarted up police cruiser....
Face it man, they were all boats. How else could you cruise in them? :huh:
Quote from: Raza on January 30, 2019, 06:47:24 AM
Anecdotal, but my friend spent a lot of money keeping his Lincoln LS on the road too. Seemed like pieces of junk.
My mom had two (one V6 and a V8) and din't have any issues! We had a T Bird (same car) also that was trouble free......
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on January 30, 2019, 07:16:23 AM
My mom had two (one V6 and a V8) and din't have any issues! We had a T Bird (same car) also that was trouble free......
My grandparents had a V6 for like 10 years and I don't recall any issues. And my grandfather is kind of hard on his vehicles (he once took his LS off road chasing some kids on ATVs off his property...).
Quote from: MX793 on January 30, 2019, 07:20:11 AM
My grandparents had a V6 for like 10 years and I don't recall any issues. And my grandfather is kind of hard on his vehicles (he once took his LS off road chasing some kids on ATVs off his property...).
:lol:
Always loved the Lincoln LS. Crisp lines, excellent proportions, RWD. Pretty rare to see around here, especially in good condition.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on January 30, 2019, 07:16:23 AM
My mom had two (one V6 and a V8) and din't have any issues! We had a T Bird (same car) also that was trouble free......
Quote from: MX793 on January 30, 2019, 07:20:11 AM
My grandparents had a V6 for like 10 years and I don't recall any issues. And my grandfather is kind of hard on his vehicles (he once took his LS off road chasing some kids on ATVs off his property...).
Well, I said it was anecdotal.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 29, 2019, 12:42:09 PM
Seriously. There's not a single domestic car from those years that I'd recommend him to buy. Maybe a C5, but it's not going to be a good one for $13,000.
Rustang Cobra?
Quote from: MX793 on January 30, 2019, 07:20:11 AM
My grandparents had a V6 for like 10 years and I don't recall any issues. And my grandfather is kind of hard on his vehicles (he once took his LS off road chasing some kids on ATVs off his property...).
Would you have known about it if they did? I've never discussed mechanical issues with my grandparents.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 30, 2019, 09:20:55 AM
Would you have known about it if they did? I've never discussed mechanical issues with my grandparents.
My grandfather is somewhat of a car guy (raced dirt track stock cars when he was younger, has several show-worthy classics, still wrenches on his old cars) and my grandmother is pretty vocal if something is causing a lot of problems or costing them money. If it was a POS, I'd have heard about it.
Quote from: shp4man on January 29, 2019, 02:25:57 PM
I don't have time right now, but I heard a good story from a Ford insider about the development of the 4.6L Ford V8. It has to do with the downturn in the big defense industry after the Berlin Wall got taken down. ;)
So what's the story here? :huh: Were they going to use it power bulldozers?
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 30, 2019, 09:28:58 AM
So what's the story here? :huh: Were they going to use it power bulldozers?
After the USSR collapsed, many really good engineers in the defense industry were laid off. Some innovative thinking person at Ford brought some of them in and assigned them to design a V8 engine. Their design was overbuilt, and despite easily lasting half a million miles, it was too expensive to build competitively. Ford asked them to make adjustments.
And the result was the 4.6, maybe the best V8 ever made for multiple applications. That's debatable, I know. Chevy small block?
I don't know what happened to the defense engineers. They probably went to work for better pay somewhere. ;)
Quote from: shp4man on January 30, 2019, 12:27:07 PM
After the USSR collapsed, many really good engineers in the defense industry were laid off. Some innovative thinking person at Ford brought some of them in and assigned them to design a V8 engine. Their design was overbuilt, and despite easily lasting half a million miles, it was too expensive to build competitively. Ford asked them to make adjustments.
And the result was the 4.6, maybe the best V8 ever made for multiple applications. That's debatable, I know. Chevy small block?
I don't know what happened to the defense engineers. They probably went to work for better pay somewhere. ;)
I want to know what adjustments they made to make the 4.6 cheaper.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 30, 2019, 12:39:51 PM
I want to know what adjustments they made to make the 4.6 cheaper.
Internal and external block stiffening and metallurgy.
Quote from: shp4man on January 30, 2019, 12:27:07 PM
After the USSR collapsed, many really good engineers in the defense industry were laid off. Some innovative thinking person at Ford brought some of them in and assigned them to design a V8 engine. Their design was overbuilt, and despite easily lasting half a million miles, it was too expensive to build competitively. Ford asked them to make adjustments.
And the result was the 4.6, maybe the best V8 ever made for multiple applications. That's debatable, I know. Chevy small block?
I don't know what happened to the defense engineers. They probably went to work for better pay somewhere. ;)
The CSB was the choice of hot rodders. The Windsor and the 4.6 was the choice of serious racers.
Quote from: shp4man on January 30, 2019, 12:47:33 PM
Internal and external block stiffening and metallurgy.
And that's why they don't actually last a half million miles.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 30, 2019, 12:39:51 PM
I want to know what adjustments they made to make the 4.6 cheaper.
Thing is I don't see anything of note in the Modular design vs. other OHC designs of the times (save for the :facepalm: 2-valve version). The hitch is the Modular had all the detriments of OHC design (size/weight/complexity/cost) but none of the advantages (esp. no more power) - a conundrum carried forward 25+ years later into the Coyote/Voodoo.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 30, 2019, 04:14:24 PM
Thing is I don't see anything of note in the Modular design vs. other OHC designs of the times (save for the :facepalm: 2-valve version). The hitch is the Modular had all the detriments of OHC design (size/weight/complexity/cost) but none of the advantages (esp. no more power) - a conundrum carried forward 25+ years later into the Coyote/Voodoo.
:clap:
IIRC isn't the Modular design actually very unmodular from the consumer's POV? As in, you can't trivially transplant a hi-po Modular from one car to another like you can with a SBC. IIRC the "modular" moniker had more to do with factory modularity or something mundane like that.
Quote from: Laconian on January 30, 2019, 04:36:38 PM
IIRC isn't the Modular design actually very unmodular from the consumer's POV? As in, you can't trivially transplant a hi-po Modular from one car to another like you can with a SBC. IIRC the "modular" moniker had more to do with factory modularity or something mundane like that.
Yeah, the manufacturing process is what was modular, not the engine. The manufacturing may have been efficient, but the product was not.
Remember to always use Modular in italics, that's what makes the engine modern.
Stop hating on Ford. Here is a video demonstrating some Modular excellence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcN_WcGr4BU
I agree that a man sitting inside of an engine bay is the worst engine ever.
Not an engine for those who don't do maintenance. Got to change the oil once in a while.
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 30, 2019, 06:48:21 PM
Not an engine for those who don't do maintenance. Got to change the oil once in a while.
... and the cam phasers, VVT solenoids, timing chains and guides and tensioners, intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, ignition coils, spark plugs and/or cylinder heads ...
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 30, 2019, 06:58:53 PM
... and the cam phasers, VVT solenoids, timing chains and guides and tensioners, intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, ignition coils, spark plugs and/or cylinder heads ...
:lol:
Quote from: Laconian on January 30, 2019, 04:36:38 PM
IIRC isn't the Modular design actually very unmodular from the consumer's POV? As in, you can't trivially transplant a hi-po Modular from one car to another like you can with a SBC. IIRC the "modular" moniker had more to do with factory modularity or something mundane like that.
Yes, physically its a much larger engine than the old small block Windsor it replaced.
LOL. The 5.4 three valve wasn't designed by the guys that did the 4.6. And the 4.6 wasn't designed for high power output. It was designed for dependability and longevity.
That's why when the cops racked up 150,000 miles, taxi companies painted them yellow and racked up another 200K.
4.6 liters equals about 280 cubic inches. I'll let you do a comparison there.
Quote from: MX793 on January 29, 2019, 08:01:58 PM
The C5 "transaxle" which is just a 4L60 auto or Tremec T56 (same trannies as the F bodies) bolted directly to the differential rather than having a length of driveshaft between? Why exactly would that be inherently more problematic than when there is several feet of extra shaft between them? For that matter, can you point me to some stories of transaxle issues that plagued the C5? I can't seem to find any other than the onesy-twosy issues that you can find for pretty much any car.
The inherent problem is that the driveshaft is contained within what is called a torque tube (a non-rotating tube around the driveshaft between engine and transaxle). This torque tube is actually a core structural member of the car, and thus imparts a lot of force/moment into the transaxle that wasn't entirely designed for such a thing, leading to cracked cases and failed components:
(https://corvetteactioncenter.com/gallery/data//523/medium/c5chassis2.jpg)
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 30, 2019, 08:01:10 PM
Yes, physically its a much larger engine than the old small block Windsor it replaced.
DOHC Modular (left) vs. 5.0 pooprod (right):
(http://i.imgur.com/Ozemlxh.jpg)
GM LS (left) vs. Coyote (right):
(https://www.speednik.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2015/12/2015-12-21_22-37-23.jpg)
Yikes, that thing is huge
Quote from: GoCougs on January 30, 2019, 10:08:20 PM
The inherent problem is that the driveshaft is contained within what is called a torque tube (a non-rotating tube around the driveshaft between engine and transaxle). This torque tube is actually a core structural member of the car, and thus imparts a lot of force/moment into the transaxle that wasn't entirely designed for such a thing, leading to cracked cases and failed components:
(https://corvetteactioncenter.com/gallery/data//523/medium/c5chassis2.jpg)
Seeing as the Corvette's engine is on compliant mounts, the drivetrain is not a structural member in the same sense as the actual frame (or something like an F50 Ferrari or a motorcycle). If that was actually part of the chassis structure, you'd likely see broken motor mounts and engine blocks as much as broken transmission housings.
If these are so problematic, then why am I not inundated with hits when I search for terms like:
"Corvette transaxle issues"
"Corvette cracked transmission case"
"Corvette cracked transaxle"
Presenting evidence contrary to Cougs' beliefs is immoral.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 30, 2019, 06:58:53 PM
... and the cam phasers, VVT solenoids, timing chains and guides and tensioners, intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, ignition coils, spark plugs and/or cylinder heads ...
Well, they can't win them all :huh:.
It seems the problem may stem from an oil seal on one or both timing chain tensionsers and precipitates the other damage. An article that explains it quite well...http://abautomotive.ca/2017/03/09/ford-5-4-phasers-noise/ (http://abautomotive.ca/2017/03/09/ford-5-4-phasers-noise/)
n short, this problem is caused by the lack of oil pressure on top of the engine causing incorrect operation of cam phasers and lack of lubrication for the camshafts bearings. From my observations, I can conclude that the problem starts with a failure of the oil seal on one or both timing chain tensioners. Damage to the cam phasers and camshaft bearings is a consequence of this condition. To a certain extent use of 5W-20 viscosity oil also contributes to this problem. Apparently, Ford has it figured out too as they supply new engines with 5W-30 oil viscosity recommendation (as I found it to be shown on the oil cap of the brand new engine)(https://i.postimg.cc/Dy1xv7Xk/20170309-120253.jpg)
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 30, 2019, 06:48:21 PM
Not an engine for those who don't do maintenance. Got to change the oil once in a while.
Oil sludging is also a characteristic of engines that aren't run long enough to get up to temperature. People who almost exclusively do very short trips to the local store or work.
Quote from: MX793 on January 31, 2019, 08:09:34 AM
Oil sludging is also a characteristic of engines that aren't run long enough to get up to temperature. People who almost exclusively do very short trips to the local store or work.
Or oil that is overheated. Lack of oil pressure to the heads may well cause them to overheat and burn the oil. Toyota had this problem in the late nineties and early aughts.
Quote from: MX793 on January 31, 2019, 05:15:44 AM
Seeing as the Corvette's engine is on compliant mounts, the drivetrain is not a structural member in the same sense as the actual frame (or something like an F50 Ferrari or a motorcycle). If that was actually part of the chassis structure, you'd likely see broken motor mounts and engine blocks as much as broken transmission housings.
If these are so problematic, then why am I not inundated with hits when I search for terms like:
"Corvette transaxle issues"
"Corvette cracked transmission case"
"Corvette cracked transaxle"
The torque tube is a structural member of the car, and it imparts undue stress into the transaxle, which can lead to premature failure. It should be a notable area of concern for anyone considering the purchase of a (used) C5, esp. with miles.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 31, 2019, 09:30:37 AM
The torque tube is a structural member of the car, and it imparts undue stress into the transaxle, which can lead to premature failure. It should be a notable area of concern for anyone considering the purchase of a (used) C5, esp. with miles.
Ah, the "I say it, therefore it's indisputable" tack. I didn't mention it before, but the torque tube couplers are also compliant/rubber/urethane. So between the entire driveline being compliantly mounted, and the chassis itself being far more rigid, the chassis is going to carry the load (remember statically indeterminate systems in freshman engineering school?). Otherwise, you're saying that the engine in the Corvette is a stressed member in the chassis, something the SBC was certainly never designed to be.
Again, where are all of the actual failures? Why do I not pull up countless threads on Corvette forums talking about broken transmission/transaxle housings (or the engine block side) on their C5+ Vettes? Or at the engine side of the interface, as well as increased loads on the motor mounts, where there would also be similarly high stresses (yet you seem to focus on the trans side). The Vette uses a purpose built trans housing, but not a purpose built engine block. If the uniquely designed trans housing can't handle the stresses, what makes you think the GM parts bin engine block can?
I just don't see evidence of this being a recurring or common problem.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 31, 2019, 09:30:37 AM
The torque tube is a structural member of the car, and it imparts undue stress into the transaxle, which can lead to premature failure. It should be a notable area of concern for anyone considering the purchase of a (used) C5, esp. with miles.
Ah, yes, the classic GoCougs "if I keep saying the same thing over and over, maybe it'll become true" argument style.
The torque tube is a structural member of the car, and it imparts undue stress into the transaxle, which can lead to premature failure. It should be a notable area of concern for anyone considering the purchase of a (used) C5, esp. with miles.
Guys, the torque tube is a structural member of the car, and it imparts undue stress into the transaxle, which can lead to premature failure. It should be a notable area of concern for anyone considering the purchase of a (used) C5, esp. with miles.
"The torque tube is a structural member of the car, and it imparts undue stress into the transaxle, which can lead to premature failure. It should be a notable area of concern for anyone considering the purchase of a (used) C5, esp. with miles." = Cougs BSOD
Someone please reset him
EXACTLY. Wasn't so hard, was it.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 31, 2019, 11:00:15 AM
The torque tube is a structural member of the car, and it imparts undue stress into the transaxle, which can lead to premature failure. It should be a notable area of concern for anyone considering the purchase of a (used) C5, esp. with miles.
So Canadian ones should be OK then?
:lol:
Are bellhousings structural members of cars?
Quote from: shp4man on January 30, 2019, 09:49:29 PM
LOL. The 5.4 three valve wasn't designed by the guys that did the 4.6. And the 4.6 wasn't designed for high power output. It was designed for dependability and longevity.
That's why when the cops racked up 150,000 miles, taxi companies painted them yellow and racked up another 200K.
4.6 liters equals about 280 cubic inches. I'll let you do a comparison there.
Perhaps it wasn't the intention, but the robust design of the 4.6 found it's way into a number of sports cars, exotics and race cars...
Marcos Mantis
1997–1999
327 hp (244 kW)
317 lb⋅ft (430 N⋅m)
Marcos Mantis GT
1998–1999
506 hp (377 kW)
452 lb⋅ft (613 N⋅m)
Supercharged
Panoz AIV Roadster
1997–1999
305 hp (227 kW)
300 lb⋅ft (407 N⋅m)
Panoz Esperante
2000–2009
305 hp (227 kW)
300 lb⋅ft (407 N⋅m) [12]
Qvale Mangusta
2000–2001
320 hp (239 kW)
317 lb⋅ft (430 N⋅m)
MG X-Power SV
2003–2005
320 hp (239 kW)
317 lb⋅ft (430 N⋅m)
Koenigsegg CC8S
2003
646 hp (482 kW)
550 lb⋅ft (746 N⋅m)
Dual Supercharged
Koenigsegg CCR V8
2004–2006
806 hp (601 kW)
679 lb⋅ft (920 N⋅m)
Dual Supercharged
Invicta S1
2004–2012
320 hp (239 kW)
317 lb⋅ft (430 N⋅m)
https://petrolicious.com/articles/among-exotics-in-denmark-a-pantera-makes-practical-sense
I love the Pantera, but I wish owners would stop putting oversized wheels on classic cars. It looks so goddamn stupid.
I feel attacked
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 06, 2019, 04:18:13 PM
I feel attacked
:lol:
Well. I haven't seen what you've done, but those big arsed chrome wheels on that Pantera looks awful.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 06, 2019, 04:18:13 PM
I feel attacked
:lol: Your car looks good! I think the larger wheels fill the wheel wells out pretty good on the Pantera. They def look better than the itty bitty original wheels and tires! The side walls on the original rears look like they belong on a Top Fuel Dragster!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on February 06, 2019, 05:22:49 PM
:lol: Your car looks good! I think the larger wheels fill the wheel wells out pretty good on the Pantera. They def look better than the itty bitty original wheels and tires! The side walls on the original rears look like they belong on a Top Fuel Dragster!
I'm okay with tall sidewalls on Panteras if they are also hella wide. Stick a 335 width tire back there and they look gooooood
Quote from: Rockraven on February 06, 2019, 04:20:16 PM
:lol:
Well. I haven't seen what you've done, but those big arsed chrome wheels on that Pantera looks awful.
I think a better style might fix your issue. Or something not chrome.
This is mine FWIW. 18 inchers. Some guys run 20s, but 18s are better for autocross due to tire selection and unsprung weight. The 20s fill out the wheel wells more, so they're better for looks.
(https://i.imgur.com/QSOWCwO.jpg)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 06, 2019, 06:14:44 PM
I think a better style might fix your issue. Or something not chrome.
This is mine FWIW. 18 inchers. Some guys run 20s, but 18s are better for autocross due to tire selection and unsprung weight. The 20s fill out the wheel wells more, so they're better for looks.
(https://i.imgur.com/QSOWCwO.jpg)
I disagree.
That parking garage is so clean!
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 06, 2019, 06:14:44 PM
I think a better style might fix your issue. Or something not chrome.
This is mine FWIW. 18 inchers. Some guys run 20s, but 18s are better for autocross due to tire selection and unsprung weight. The 20s fill out the wheel wells more, so they're better for looks.
(https://i.imgur.com/QSOWCwO.jpg)
I can accept 18s, and your car looks great. Disagree on the 20s for looks. That's just too much rim.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 06, 2019, 06:14:44 PM
I think a better style might fix your issue. Or something not chrome.
This is mine FWIW. 18 inchers. Some guys run 20s, but 18s are better for autocross due to tire selection and unsprung weight. The 20s fill out the wheel wells more, so they're better for looks.
(https://i.imgur.com/QSOWCwO.jpg)
Goddamn that looks good, man.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 06, 2019, 06:14:44 PM
I think a better style might fix your issue. Or something not chrome.
This is mine FWIW. 18 inchers. Some guys run 20s, but 18s are better for autocross due to tire selection and unsprung weight. The 20s fill out the wheel wells more, so they're better for looks.
(https://i.imgur.com/QSOWCwO.jpg)
Nice. Very nice. :ohyeah: No rust?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 06, 2019, 06:14:44 PM
I think a better style might fix your issue. Or something not chrome.
This is mine FWIW. 18 inchers. Some guys run 20s, but 18s are better for autocross due to tire selection and unsprung weight. The 20s fill out the wheel wells more, so they're better for looks.
(https://i.imgur.com/QSOWCwO.jpg)
That looks pretty good, man. Imagine if they'd finished building the car all the way to the back!
Quote from: shp4man on February 06, 2019, 09:37:48 PM
Nice. Very nice. :ohyeah: No rust?
Don't look underneath :lol:
Quote from: Raza on February 07, 2019, 08:10:45 AM
That looks pretty good, man. Imagine if they'd finished building the car all the way to the back!
They finished a few of them.
(http://www.vaultcars.com/wp-content/uploads/69Chevelle-014.jpg)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 06, 2019, 06:14:44 PM
I think a better style might fix your issue. Or something not chrome.
This is mine FWIW. 18 inchers. Some guys run 20s, but 18s are better for autocross due to tire selection and unsprung weight. The 20s fill out the wheel wells more, so they're better for looks.
(https://i.imgur.com/QSOWCwO.jpg)
It needs flames, big flames.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 07, 2019, 10:30:23 AM
Don't look underneath :lol:
They finished a few of them.
(http://www.vaultcars.com/wp-content/uploads/69Chevelle-014.jpg)
Nice!
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 07, 2019, 04:00:52 PM
It needs flames, big flames.
It has flames. The front side marker light has gloss black pinstripe flames coming off it. Very subtle and I can't find a picture that actually shows them.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 08, 2019, 01:14:30 PM
It has flames. The front side marker light has gloss black pinstripe flames coming off it. Very subtle and I can't find a picture that actually shows them.
I stalked your FB.
(https://i.imgur.com/efYnhRc.jpg)
Ah there ya go. Can kinda see it there
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 08, 2019, 07:51:07 PM
Ah there ya go. Can kinda see it there
Kinda, if I squint.