Dyson EV

[FoMoJo]

Dyson electric car

Something to keep an eye on for the future...



Imo, Dyson has made a fortune making existing products better.  I would not discount his company from producing an EV that is a cut above the rest.  Solid state batteries?

[Payman]

I dunno. If their products don't suck, they blow.

[Eye of the Tiger]

It sucks.

And it never loses that ability.

[FoMoJo]

It sucks.

You can say that again.  We just got a Dyson V10 cordless vacuum and it's brilliant. 

[CaminoRacer]

Car are way different than all other consumer products. Far more complicated, far more government regulations, etc. My faith in an outside company being able to do it better than the established players (specifically GM, Toyota, VW) is zero.

[BimmerM3]

Car are way different than all other consumer products. Far more complicated, far more government regulations, etc. My faith in an outside company being able to do it better than the established players (specifically GM, Toyota, VW) is zero.

They have a better shot than all the other newcomers since they already have a legitimate, profitable business to help them get past the barriers to entry.

[12,000 RPM]

Starting a car division is a great way to go bankrupt

[MrH]

Car are way different than all other consumer products. Far more complicated, far more government regulations, etc. My faith in an outside company being able to do it better than the established players (specifically GM, Toyota, VW) is zero.

Kind of my thoughts too.

I know a guy through the internet who's one of the leaders getting this off the ground though.  He knows his stuff.   The only thing Dyson is really bringing to the table here is solid state batteries.  Could be interesting if they can do that cost effectively

[12,000 RPM]

At this point all new EV operations are vaporware until proven profitable.

[FoMoJo]

Kind of my thoughts too.

I know a guy through the internet who's one of the leaders getting this off the ground though.  He knows his stuff.   The only thing Dyson is really bringing to the table here is solid state batteries.  Could be interesting if they can do that cost effectively

Battery development is key.  While Dyson may fail at his attempts at developing an EV that's profitable, a £1 billion in R&D will go a long way in battery development and push the quest for a better battery quite a ways further along.

Bear in mind, technology is currently at a point of major developments and you guys will be part of it.

[AutobahnSHO]

At this point all new EV operations are vaporware until proven profitable.

Kinda like the car market 1880s-1950s present. (Olds, Saturn, Pontiac, Mercury....)

[93JC]

They have a better shot than all the other newcomers since they already have a legitimate, profitable business to help them get past the barriers to entry.

Cost is the biggest barrier to entry, and the automotive market costs a hell of a lot more to break into than the appliance industry. Dyson has annual revenues in the billions. Tesla's revenue is an order of magnitude higher than Dyson's and Tesla is still bleeding money. The likes of Toyota, GM, VW, Daimler, etc. have annual revenues in the hundreds of billions of dollars, and even they consider the investment into EV research to be a shitload of money.

[BimmerM3]

Cost is the biggest barrier to entry, and the automotive market costs a hell of a lot more to break into than the appliance industry. Dyson has annual revenues in the billions. Tesla's revenue is an order of magnitude higher than Dyson's and Tesla is still bleeding money. The likes of Toyota, GM, VW, Daimler, etc. have annual revenues in the hundreds of billions of dollars, and even they consider the investment into EV research to be a shitload of money.

Still better than starting with $0 revenue, like every other EV company.

And more importantly, they're profitable to the tune of $1B/year. https://www.manufacturingglobal.com/leadership/dyson-reaches-record-profits-2017-hitting-ps801mn

[FoMoJo]

Cost is the biggest barrier to entry, and the automotive market costs a hell of a lot more to break into than the appliance industry. Dyson has annual revenues in the billions. Tesla's revenue is an order of magnitude higher than Dyson's and Tesla is still bleeding money. The likes of Toyota, GM, VW, Daimler, etc. have annual revenues in the hundreds of billions of dollars, and even they consider the investment into EV research to be a shitload of money.

Smaller companies tend to be more innovative.  Vacuums were crap until Dyson reinvented them.  His company is based on innovation; making existing products better. 

[Soup DeVille]

But Dyson vacuums suck (and not in the good way).

[FoMoJo]

But Dyson vacuums suck (and not in the good way).

Do you have a Dyson?

[Soup DeVille]

Do you have a Dyson?

No, but my mother burnt out two of them. They work well when they work, I'll give them that- but they don't last, and for the $500+ they charge for the damn things you should never have to buy one again.

[FoMoJo]

No, but my mother burnt out two of them. They work well when they work, I'll give them that- but they don't last, and for the $500+ they charge for the damn things you should never have to buy one again.

Don't have any experience with the longevity yet, but at least they work.  This is our third vacuum in 3 years.  The first was a hoover.  It worked okay at first and then the bushings wore out after a few months and it screamed so loud, we couldn't be in the same room with it.  The Dirt Devil was just crap.  The Dyson V10 works great.  I'll see if it lasts longer them me.

[BimmerM3]

No, but my mother burnt out two of them. They work well when they work, I'll give them that- but they don't last, and for the $500+ they charge for the damn things you should never have to buy one again.

I went down a black hole of vacuum research a few years ago and basically determined that you've gotta spend $800+ on a commercial model for something that has an above average chance of lasting a long time. I settled on the middle ground of a $220 Ninja that works well but isn't too crazy expensive to replace when it inevitably breaks. So far so good.

EDIT: Shark, not Ninja.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I went down a black hole of vacuum research a few years ago and basically determined that you've gotta spend $800+ on a commercial model for something that has an above average chance of lasting a long time. I settled on the middle ground of a $220 Ninja that works well but isn't too crazy expensive to replace when it inevitably breaks. So far so good.

I also did that research, and ended up with a cheap AF Dirt Devil upright with disposable bags. And a modified intake.

[FoMoJo]

I went down a black hole of vacuum research a few years ago and basically determined that you've gotta spend $800+ on a commercial model for something that has an above average chance of lasting a long time. I settled on the middle ground of a $220 Ninja that works well but isn't too crazy expensive to replace when it inevitably breaks. So far so good.

Cordless?

[shp4man]

So the Dyson cone thing isn't an original idea. Caterpillar diesels in heavy equipment engines had a similar pre-filter setup in the 1970's.

Our vacuum cleaner is a Hoover. Plastic. About 6 years old, floppy loose, buy still works.

[BimmerM3]

Cordless?

Nope. Also, it's a Shark, not a Ninja. I don't know if Ninja makes vacuums.

My condo is like 730 SQ FT. I can easily reach the entire place from two outlets - one if I put a little more effort into moving the cord around furniture.

[giant_mtb]

So the Dyson cone thing isn't an original idea. Caterpillar diesels in heavy equipment engines had a similar pre-filter setup in the 1970's.

Our vacuum cleaner is a Hoover. Plastic. About 6 years old, floppy loose, buy still works.

Cyclonic separation.  Used in lots of industry.  Sawmills come to mind.  Fluid mechanics.

[FoMoJo]

Nope. Also, it's a Shark, not a Ninja. I don't know if Ninja makes vacuums.

My condo is like 730 SQ FT. I can easily reach the entire place from two outlets - one if I put a little more effort into moving the cord around furniture.

I was pleasantly surprised at how convenient a cordless is.  It claims that the charge will last an hour, but there are 3 speeds and, I expect, the high speed will only last about 20 minutes.  However, It only takes me about 15 minutes to vacuum the place so I don't really know for sure.  It's one of these stick things with the workings at the top.  Very light and it has 6 different attachments that snap easily into place.  I really only use a couple of them.  The high setting has tremendous suction, compared to the other cord vacuums we had and what's convenient as well is that you can remove the stick and attach the various brushes, etc. right to the vacuum head.  Easy for vacuuming the inside of the car; though I haven't done that yet.  Too damned cold.

[FoMoJo]

Cyclonic separation.  Used in lots of industry.  Sawmills come to mind.  Fluid mechanics.

Clever to apply that technology to a vacuum.  I still don't really know how his fans works though.  They've got no fan.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Clever to apply that technology to a vacuum.  I still don't really know how his fans works though.  They've got no fan.

They just use an impeller in the base to blow air into the ring.

[FoMoJo]

They just use an impeller in the base to blow air into the ring.

Ah, curves, angles and induction.  Very clever.  I like their hand dryers as well; as long as it does blow my skin off.

[giant_mtb]

Clever to apply that technology to a vacuum.  I still don't really know how his fans works though.  They've got no fan.

Oh there's a fan. It's just in the base where you can't see it. Total gimmick. But if you use cool words like "air multiplier," you can charge $300 for a fan.

[93JC]

Still better than starting with $0 revenue, like every other EV company.

True.

And more importantly, they're profitable to the tune of $1B/year. https://www.manufacturingglobal.com/leadership/dyson-reaches-record-profits-2017-hitting-ps801mn

True, and last year it was up to $1.42B in profit on $5.67B in revenue. Margins in the automotive industry are much tighter, and even basket-case Tesla posted over $11B in revenue in 2017, and lost over $600M. Their 2018 revenues should hit about $20B but they'll almost assuredly still post a loss.

That said Dyson is still a private firm owned solely by James Dyson himself, so ultimately he can make whatever irrational decisions he wants as long as he's got the cash to burn.