*Renamed: $10large small SUV?

Started by AutobahnSHO, January 29, 2019, 08:33:00 PM

CaminoRacer

I think a spaceship Civic is a great idea. Drives well, reliable, in the price range, etc
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

12,000 RPM

They are incredibly fun to drive
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

FoMoJo

Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 01, 2019, 07:34:04 AM
I drove one to LA and back and didn't one notice it being loud :huh:
Loss of hearing due to blasting around in your El Camino :huh:.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

CaminoRacer

Quote from: FoMoJo on February 01, 2019, 07:36:13 AM
Loss of hearing due to blasting around in your El Camino :huh:.

Exactly. Everything is quiet compared to that.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

2o6

Most Hondas have issues with road noise.


If you get a Civic, make sure it's 2009+. Early cars have block casting issues and will crack blocks with no warning and start pouring out coolant and oil.



Also, once again, be cautious; Si models, the K20 and K24 are generally solid, but yet again they tend to use and burn oil higher in miles. Sometimes seals on them like to weep, too.

2o6

Quote from: HurricaneSteve on January 31, 2019, 03:34:36 PM
Define no economy. EPA had the 2.3L Focus at 25/33 which is similar to the 2.0 Mazda3 of the same era. I also see quite a few 1st gen Mazda3 hatches still flying around, as well as Mazda6's & Fusions so I don't know if a few junkyard adventures tell the whole story.


Uh, junkyards definitely DO tell a lot of the story. If a motor is expensive at a junkyard, that generally means it's crap. Not to mention, I barely got 25MPG mixed out of my Mazda 3.


Here's some experience I've had with that shitty 2.3MZR/Duratec

2012 - Mazda 5 taken on trade from dealer I worked at. I start car to move it across the parking lot - clang clang clang, rod knock.

2012 - Mazda CX-7, identical story to above.

2014 - Passed on Mazda 5 that was in terrible physical shape, due to rod knock.

2014 - Too slow to contact seller to buy Manual trans Mazda 5 with rod knock.

2016 - I bought a 2008 Mazda 6 4cyl. Rod knock. The car only has 89k.

2016 - two of my car flipping friends bought identical Mazda 6's to mine; one with 110k, another with 140k. Both have rod knock. The one with 110k has a hole in the pan and a connecting rod sticking out.

2018 - I bought a 2007 Mazda 3 with 104k.... the valve train and bottom end is fucked up from low oil pressure despite regular oil changes. I get new motor installed. New motor has timing chain issues. I replace with another engine.


The 2.3L MZR is a shitty motor.

CaminoRacer

I am determined to get mine to 300k to spite you :lol:
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

2o6

Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 01, 2019, 08:16:05 AM
I am determined to get mine to 300k to spite you :lol:


You're like the only one

BimmerM3

#68
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 31, 2019, 07:42:25 PM
I will be looking out for AWD/ sunroof/ manual transmission combos....

Any particular priority order to those preferences? Getting all three (particularly the MT) in a CUV will be really tough.

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 01, 2019, 08:28:40 AM
Any particular priority order to those preferences? Getting all three (particularly the MT) in a CUV will be really tough.

The MT is a long shot, I think only the Forester and maybe CX-5 had them? Not super concerned with that.

I really really want sunroof and wife will really really want AWD.

I really love the panorama roof available on Forester, but the chain on the CR-V and RAV4 is very appealing...
Will

AutobahnSHO

Will

MX793

Quote from: 2o6 on February 01, 2019, 08:06:07 AM

Uh, junkyards definitely DO tell a lot of the story. If a motor is expensive at a junkyard, that generally means it's crap. Not to mention, I barely got 25MPG mixed out of my Mazda 3.


Here's some experience I've had with that shitty 2.3MZR/Duratec

2012 - Mazda 5 taken on trade from dealer I worked at. I start car to move it across the parking lot - clang clang clang, rod knock.

2012 - Mazda CX-7, identical story to above.

2014 - Passed on Mazda 5 that was in terrible physical shape, due to rod knock.

2014 - Too slow to contact seller to buy Manual trans Mazda 5 with rod knock.

2016 - I bought a 2008 Mazda 6 4cyl. Rod knock. The car only has 89k.

2016 - two of my car flipping friends bought identical Mazda 6's to mine; one with 110k, another with 140k. Both have rod knock. The one with 110k has a hole in the pan and a connecting rod sticking out.

2018 - I bought a 2007 Mazda 3 with 104k.... the valve train and bottom end is fucked up from low oil pressure despite regular oil changes. I get new motor installed. New motor has timing chain issues. I replace with another engine.


The 2.3L MZR is a shitty motor.

The rest of the car disintegrated around it, but mine ran flawlessly for 100K.  Before all of the stations switched to E10, I was getting mid 30s on the highway.  Probably around 28 mpg combined.  After the switch to E10 that dropped to like 31-32 and around 27 mixed.    Between ethanolated fuel, plus winter blend, and cold winter temps (running the defrost non-stop), I was still getting 23 mpg in pure city driving.  Hell of a lot better than my VW (which gets like 18 under the same conditions).  A friend had a 2.3 Mazda3 of the same vintage and his motor was going strong as well with 6 figures on the odometer.  And that was his auto-x car for a couple of seasons.  Coworker had one, passed down to his kid, no engine issues.  Sounds like it's either something about the Mazda5s or all of the used ones you looked at may not have been taken care of.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

FoMoJo

Quote from: MX793 on February 01, 2019, 05:12:29 PM
The rest of the car disintegrated around it, but mine ran flawlessly for 100K.  Before all of the stations switched to E10, I was getting mid 30s on the highway.  Probably around 28 mpg combined.  After the switch to E10 that dropped to like 31-32 and around 27 mixed.    Between ethanolated fuel, plus winter blend, and cold winter temps (running the defrost non-stop), I was still getting 23 mpg in pure city driving.  Hell of a lot better than my VW (which gets like 18 under the same conditions).  A friend had a 2.3 Mazda3 of the same vintage and his motor was going strong as well with 6 figures on the odometer.  And that was his auto-x car for a couple of seasons.  Coworker had one, passed down to his kid, no engine issues.  Sounds like it's either something about the Mazda5s or all of the used ones you looked at may not have been taken care of.
Some people just don't believe in oil changes :huh:.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: FoMoJo on February 01, 2019, 05:32:38 PM
Some people just don't believe in oil changes :huh:.

Oil changes are a scam, and the earth is flat.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

2o6

Quote from: MX793 on February 01, 2019, 05:12:29 PM
The rest of the car disintegrated around it, but mine ran flawlessly for 100K.  Before all of the stations switched to E10, I was getting mid 30s on the highway.  Probably around 28 mpg combined.  After the switch to E10 that dropped to like 31-32 and around 27 mixed.    Between ethanolated fuel, plus winter blend, and cold winter temps (running the defrost non-stop), I was still getting 23 mpg in pure city driving.  Hell of a lot better than my VW (which gets like 18 under the same conditions).  A friend had a 2.3 Mazda3 of the same vintage and his motor was going strong as well with 6 figures on the odometer.  And that was his auto-x car for a couple of seasons.  Coworker had one, passed down to his kid, no engine issues.  Sounds like it's either something about the Mazda5s or all of the used ones you looked at may not have been taken care of.


They do it in the Ford Escape, as well.

Even a quick search of Mazda 2.3 rod knock gives you pages, and pages, and pages of these things destroying rod bearings.

If you maintain one new (or significantly low miles) it might be fine, but considering the pages upon pages of these things blowing up, i don't think they're a strong engine. Hell, the 2.5L is known swap for Mazda 3 owners when the 2.3L blows up, because it's a more reliable engine and it's a direct fit.


The 1ZZ Corolla is also notorious for doing similar things, but those got revised in 2005 ish, and they don't spin bearings and use oil as much.


HurricaneSteve

Quote from: 2o6 on February 01, 2019, 08:06:07 AM

Uh, junkyards definitely DO tell a lot of the story. If a motor is expensive at a junkyard, that generally means it's crap. Not to mention, I barely got 25MPG mixed out of my Mazda 3.


Here's some experience I've had with that shitty 2.3MZR/Duratec

2012 - Mazda 5 taken on trade from dealer I worked at. I start car to move it across the parking lot - clang clang clang, rod knock.

2012 - Mazda CX-7, identical story to above.

2014 - Passed on Mazda 5 that was in terrible physical shape, due to rod knock.

2014 - Too slow to contact seller to buy Manual trans Mazda 5 with rod knock.

2016 - I bought a 2008 Mazda 6 4cyl. Rod knock. The car only has 89k.

2016 - two of my car flipping friends bought identical Mazda 6's to mine; one with 110k, another with 140k. Both have rod knock. The one with 110k has a hole in the pan and a connecting rod sticking out.

2018 - I bought a 2007 Mazda 3 with 104k.... the valve train and bottom end is fucked up from low oil pressure despite regular oil changes. I get new motor installed. New motor has timing chain issues. I replace with another engine.


The 2.3L MZR is a shitty motor.

Didn't you say on the 2007 Mazda 3 you bought that the VVT solenoid blew due to a lack of oil? And didn't you have to replace both the motor AND the transmission? In all of my years owning cars and driving, I have not once had to replace an engine or transmission, much less both at the same time. Something tells me despite what he had you believe, the previous owner was quite terrible with maintenance. As far as your other experiences, the Mazda 5 stands out but it's also the heaviest vehicle that Mazda placed the 2.3L in (it also seats up to 6 passengers) so I think that was a case of too small of an engine in too big of a car. The CX-7 was a disaster but that also was a heavy vehicle paired with a turbo at a time when few, if any SUV's were powered by turbos and turbo tech has come a long way since.

I won't deny that Toyota and Honda are at the top when it comes to reliability but that doesn't mean other cars that fall short of their standard are crap. I also don't recall any of their economy cars offering any engines larger than 2.0L (the closest competitors would be the 2.4L from GM and Chrysler, both of which had noticeably worse MPG than the Duractec/Mazda). The Ford Fusion also featured the 2.3L and has been one of the most reliable mid sized cars from that era so I have to say I'm a bit hesitant to call the 2.3L a "shitty motor" when much of your experience comes from buying broken down cars that people can't wait to get rid of because they skimped on maintenance and care.


HurricaneSteve

In that case I think a RAV4 with the V-6 would be pretty awesome.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd/d/sacramento-2009-toyota-rav4-lmtd-clean/6809602414.html

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/d/daly-city-toyota-rav4-limited-2011/6804865473.html

I'd imagine you could find something similar in your neck of the woods.

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 01, 2019, 03:43:16 PM
The MT is a long shot, I think only the Forester and maybe CX-5 had them? Not super concerned with that.

I really really want sunroof and wife will really really want AWD.

I really love the panorama roof available on Forester, but the chain on the CR-V and RAV4 is very appealing...

Laconian

My brother's waifu likes her V6 RAV4. Drives great, amazingly fast for what it is..
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

BimmerM3

I don't know if the Tiguan had any problems, but my parents were not very happy with their Touareg.

2010 CR-V AWD w/ Sunroof, leather, heated seats

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageBody&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=BODYSTYLE&bodyTypeGroup=bg7&zip=22315&distance=50&startYear=&endYear=&minPrice=0&maxPrice=10000&maxMileage=100000&makeId=4&makeId=6&makeId=7&makeId=37&makeId=42&makeId=53&wheelSystems=AWD&showNegotiable=false&installedOptionIds=2&modelChanged=undefined&filtersModified=true#listing=224992047

You can get an RDX for basically the same price.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageBody&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=BODYSTYLE&bodyTypeGroup=bg7&zip=22315&distance=50&startYear=&endYear=&minPrice=0&maxPrice=10000&maxMileage=100000&makeId=4&makeId=6&makeId=7&makeId=37&makeId=42&makeId=53&wheelSystems=AWD&showNegotiable=false&installedOptionIds=2&modelChanged=undefined&filtersModified=true#listing=218571705

Forester with only 75k miles

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageBody&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=BODYSTYLE&bodyTypeGroup=bg7&zip=22315&distance=50&startYear=&endYear=&minPrice=0&maxPrice=10000&maxMileage=100000&makeId=4&makeId=6&makeId=7&makeId=37&makeId=42&makeId=53&wheelSystems=AWD&showNegotiable=false&installedOptionIds=2&modelChanged=undefined&filtersModified=true#listing=213527750

AutobahnSHO

Yeah, I'm getting excited. I need to wait a few weeks to actually pull the trigger. Need that money!
Will

12,000 RPM

I like the Tiguan idea. Dunno if you can get an R-Line but they come with 255 width tires or something stupid like that... would def be my pick :lol:
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Payman

Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 01, 2019, 09:23:26 PM
I don't know if the Tiguan had any problems, but my parents were not very happy with their Touareg.


Night and day. It would be a shame to dismiss the Tiguan because its completely different and over-engineered stablemate has a bad reputation. The Tiguan is a perfectly fine vehicle.

MX793

Quote from: Rockraven on February 02, 2019, 08:14:01 AM
Night and day. It would be a shame to dismiss the Tiguan because its completely different and over-engineered stablemate has a bad reputation. The Tiguan is a perfectly fine vehicle.

I overhear the guy who sits over the wall from me complaining about how his Tig has been a money pit.  Similar crap that my Jetta has (inexplicable broken rear springs, electrical gremlins, etc).  Based on my experiences and those of people I've known with VWs over the past 20 years, I can soundly say "never again".  At least not off-warranty, at any rate.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Payman

Quote from: MX793 on February 02, 2019, 10:46:37 AM
I overhear the guy who sits over the wall from me complaining about how his Tig has been a money pit.  Similar crap that my Jetta has (inexplicable broken rear springs, electrical gremlins, etc).  Based on my experiences and those of people I've known with VWs over the past 20 years, I can soundly say "never again".  At least not off-warranty, at any rate.

And I had several VWs that were the most reliable cars I ever owned. My brother in law has bought VW's exclusively for decades. He traded in his '01 TDi with over 500,000 kms on it, and he currently has a '14 Tiguan, '17 Passat, and a '17 Mercedes 250-something (small crossover). I also know people who've had issues with CRVs and RAV4s. My brother lost the engine in his '98 RAV4 within 2 years.

BimmerM3

It can definitely be hard to tell the difference between anecdotal experience and actual trends sometimes.

Payman

Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 02, 2019, 11:11:41 AM
It can definitely be hard to tell the difference between anecdotal experience and actual trends sometimes.

Do the research, pull the Carfax, have it looked over, and spring for the extra warranty if little/none remains. Standard used car buying stuff. That Tig looks like a good deal, and it checks everything off for him.


MX793

Quote from: Rockraven on February 02, 2019, 10:57:05 AM
And I had several VWs that were the most reliable cars I ever owned. My brother in law has bought VW's exclusively for decades. He traded in his '01 TDi with over 500,000 kms on it, and he currently has a '14 Tiguan, '17 Passat, and a '17 Mercedes 250-something (small crossover). I also know people who've had issues with CRVs and RAV4s. My brother lost the engine in his '98 RAV4 within 2 years.

My car has less than 76K miles.  The interior has fallen apart in a manner I have not seen since mid-80s Chrysler products, and I've encountered or heard of others of the same vintage with the exact same issues (headliners coming unglued, paint on buttons bubbling up and falling off, etc).  It has numerous electrical gremlins that I just deal with because the cost to chase them down and fix them isn't worth it.  Again, an internet search shows a number of these that I've experienced being fairly common.  I don't know about you, but in the winter time I kind of like having a rear defroster that I can turn on and not worry about it burning the fuse out if left on for more than 90 seconds.  In less than 10K miles with this car, I've put more money into fixing non-corrosion related shit, plus all of the issues that I'm not bothering to address because they are inconvenient but don't result in a failed inspection or inability to drive the car, than any other vehicle I've owned, and I've run vehicles with far higher miles.

I also have a profound problem with the way VW builds their cars.  Their design for repair and maintainability is poor.  I've got a coolant level sensor that's failing (get bogus coolant warnings any time it's under 10F).  I looked into what it takes to replace it.  You have to replace the whole @#$%ing coolant reservoir if the sensor goes bad because it's molded into the reservoir bottle.  My windshield sprayers failed a couple of years ago.  I popped the hood and found that the line from the pump to the nozzles, which instead of being made of a rubbery material, was made out of a brittle, convoluted plastic tubing that's prone to breaking, had snapped at the hood hinge point (internet search showed this was an EXTREMELY common problem across multiple generations of Golf/Jetta).  I figured I'd just need to buy a length of this cheap shit "hose" material for a couple of bucks to replace the piece between the pump and the T where it split to the nozzles.  NOPE.  Whole hose assembly is fused together (plastic tube is thermally welded to the fittings) so you have to replace everything from the pump to the nozzles.  I patched it myself using some rubber line, barbed fittings, and duct tape from the hardware store.  And, of course, interior adhesives and paints that clearly don't stand the test of time.

My cousin had a MKIV Jetta that she unloaded for a Honda the instant the warranty was up.  She was sick of taking it into the dealer to fix niggling little electrical problems, especially once said problems would no longer be covered by warranty.  Thankfully hers was a VR6, considering the 1.8Ts had a notorious timing belt tensioner design flaw that, instead of fixing, VW simply reduced the inspect & replace interval by a factor of 2.  The place I bought my Mazda from also sold VWs and I can remember sitting in the service waiting area one day while my car was getting its annual state inspection while a pair of female Jetta owners traded stories about the problems their cars had had.  Interestingly, their stories were near identical. 

"Oh, your rear windows came off the tracks too?!  This is my third time getting that fixed.  Did you know they have to take the whole door apart to fix it?".  Sadly, they still seemed enamored with their cars.

These cars are junk.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5