The Official C8 Corvette Thread...

Started by Gotta-Qik-C7, April 25, 2018, 07:28:09 PM

FoMoJo

Quote from: Rockraven on February 20, 2021, 08:33:14 AM
While I'm a Foose fan, he's off the mark here.

https://www.motor1.com/news/489429/chip-foose-redesigned-c8-corvette/

Love the comment "There's not enough 'Corvette' mojo in the new Corvette". So he sketched a modernized 1999 Camaro.  :lol:
He's got a point, the C8 doesn't have much in the way of "corvette design," but he needs to keep working at it.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Payman

Quote from: FoMoJo on February 20, 2021, 09:26:54 AM
He's got a point, the C8 doesn't have much in the way of "corvette design," but he needs to keep working at it.

I disagree. I think it looks exactly like a mid-engine Corvette should. If there was no badging, people who know Vette design language should have no trouble.

CaminoRacer

A black C6 Z06 or Grand Sport is still my favorite modern Corvette design. C8 is cool for the chassis but I'm a bit lukewarm on the styling.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Gotta-Qik-C7

Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 20, 2021, 03:43:16 PM
A black C6 Z06 or Grand Sport is still my favorite modern Corvette design. C8 is cool for the chassis but I'm a bit lukewarm on the styling.
Those are still sexy!
2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

Payman

C7 Zo6 is peak Corvette for me. This is my brother's.

CaminoRacer

I like the front end of the C7 but the rear end of the C6
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

AutobahnSHO

Red C8 parks at (one of) the Waffle house(s) on the way to work at 8:15am-ish. Very handsome!
Will

Payman

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 02, 2021, 07:06:35 PM
Red C8 parks at (one of) the Waffle house(s) on the way to work at 8:15am-ish. Very handsome!

There's at least a bronze one, a silver one and a blue one around here.

Gotta-Qik-C7

2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

r0tor

The performance Porsche gets from it's cars is massively impressive
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

r0tor

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

GoCougs

The official test stats say the C8 should walk both these cars as if they were standing still. Alas, with all these actual real-world tests; here and otherwise; the C8 never comes close to performing.

r0tor

The replacement for displacement is obviously sauerkraut
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Gotta-Qik-C7

Quote from: GoCougs on July 13, 2021, 07:25:55 AM
The official test stats say the C8 should walk both these cars as if they were standing still. Alas, with all these actual real-world tests; here and otherwise; the C8 never comes close to performing.
I wouldn't say that! The C8 was the cheapest car in both test and had LESS HP than the BMW. It looks like it's punching waaaay above its weight class to me!
2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

r0tor

Relatively speaking they were all the same price.  The BMW ran away from it and there is no way a 4.0L NA boxster should match the C8 times.  The C8 is just not the performance bargain the C7 was - at least in current trims
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Submariner

Plus it doesn't look nearly as good.

Much nicer interior and a trick roof, though.
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

MX793

Perhaps the Vette's lackluster performance has something to do with the fact that it has 5 overdrive gears (4th gear is .88:1) whereas the BMW has 2?
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

GoCougs

Quote from: MX793 on July 13, 2021, 01:00:53 PM
Perhaps the Vette's lackluster performance has something to do with the fact that it has 5 overdrive gears (4th gear is .88:1) whereas the BMW has 2?

It's overall drive ratio (transmission + differential) that matters. The C8 may have lots of overdrive gears but it has decently steep gearing overall, plus legit DCT launch control, rear/mid engine traction, weighs ~100 lbs less and is much smaller. The new M3/M4 is now a slushie AT so no legit launch control, and when in launch control starts in 2nd gear. (no joke). Owing to its turbo nature the M3/M4 has a meatier power band though, and when under way, the M3/M4 has bit steeper gearing. Max speed in mph in each gear - I'm guessing in those two vids max speed was 120-130 mph, which would be 5th gear for each car:

C8 (Z51):
1st: 35
2nd: 58
3rd: 83
4th: 116
5th: 157
6th: 200

G80 M3:
1st: N/A
2nd: 57
3rd: 81
4th: 103
5th: 133
6th: 175

So, it's not gearing, or if it is, it's because there's too much (i.e., C8 can't get good traction, but that doesn't seem likely). Either way, I've yet to see the C8 perform remotely close to published specification (0-60 in ~2.8s and 1/4 mile in 11.2 @ 122 mph). Such specs would utterly destroy any Cayman or new M3/M4.

MX793

Quote from: GoCougs on July 13, 2021, 01:37:54 PM
It's overall drive ratio (transmission + differential) that matters. The C8 may have lots of overdrive gears but it has decently steep gearing overall, plus legit DCT launch control, rear/mid engine traction, weighs ~100 lbs less and is much smaller. The new M3/M4 is now a slushie AT so no legit launch control, and when in launch control starts in 2nd gear. (no joke). Owing to its turbo nature the M3/M4 has a meatier power band though, and when under way, the M3/M4 has bit steeper gearing. Max speed in mph in each gear - I'm guessing in those two vids max speed was 120-130 mph, which would be 5th gear for each car:

C8 (Z51):
1st: 35
2nd: 58
3rd: 83
4th: 116
5th: 157
6th: 200

G80 M3:
1st: N/A
2nd: 57
3rd: 81
4th: 103
5th: 133
6th: 175

So, it's not gearing, or if it is, it's because there's too much (i.e., C8 can't get good traction, but that doesn't seem likely). Either way, I've yet to see the C8 perform remotely close to published specification (0-60 in ~2.8s and 1/4 mile in 11.2 @ 122 mph). Such specs would utterly destroy any Cayman or new M3/M4.

The M4 walked the C8 from a roll, so no traction issues.  It's pretty clear that the M4's gearing from 3rd gear and beyond is what allows it to pull the Vette at speed.  Similarly telling is that while the Vette is quicker to 60 (combination better launch and similar gearing for the first 3 gears), the M4 starts reeling it in by the end of the 1/4, including trapping 3 mph faster.  It's clear that the BMW is pulling on the Vette at speeds >60 mph, despite the Vette having a significant peak P/W advantage and a decently fat torque curve.  Meaning that the BMW is putting significantly more power to the road, average, when accelerating at higher speeds. 
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

GoCougs

Quote from: MX793 on July 13, 2021, 01:55:05 PM
The M4 walked the C8 from a roll, so no traction issues.  It's pretty clear that the M4's gearing from 3rd gear and beyond is what allows it to pull the Vette at speed.  Similarly telling is that while the Vette is quicker to 60 (combination better launch and similar gearing for the first 3 gears), the M4 starts reeling it in by the end of the 1/4, including trapping 3 mph faster.  It's clear that the BMW is pulling on the Vette at speeds >60 mph, despite the Vette having a significant peak P/W advantage and a decently fat torque curve.  Meaning that the BMW is putting significantly more power to the road, average, when accelerating at higher speeds.

Correct - not explained by over drive gearing or any other readily available stat, vs. the M4 or Cayman. Something else is going on here, and many other similar comparos whereby the C8 underperforms its stats.

MX793

#1250
Quote from: GoCougs on July 13, 2021, 02:17:04 PM
Correct - not explained by over drive gearing or any other readily available stat, vs. the M4 or Cayman. Something else is going on here, and many other similar comparos whereby the C8 underperforms its stats.

No, the rolling drag race results against the M4 are pretty clearly explained by gearing, particularly 4th gear and beyond.

EDIT:  Just ran some quick and dirty math in excel.  If the Vette had the same overall gearing (top speed @ redline) as the Bimmer in 4th and 5th gears, it would generate ~3.5% more average power on a 58-133 mph pull.

EDIT 2:  Looking at a dyno plot for the M4, the power curve is much flatter within the RPM ranges used than the Corvette's.  Over that 60-133 mph range, the Vette operates between ~4500 and 6500 RPM for 3rd gear, ~4700 to 6500 in 4th, and then ~4700 to 5500 in 5th.  The BMW runs from 5000-7000 in 3rd, 5700-7000 in 4th, ~5500-7000 in 5th.

The BMW's power curve is flat (and at peak) from 6000-7000 and at 5000 it's making ~84% of peak.  From 5500 RPM, the BMW is making at least 90% of peak power.  So outside of the first 6 mph of the pull, the BMW is averaging over 90% peak power.

The Vette makes ~75% of peak power at 4500 RPM where it starts the pull from, and from 4700 RPM up (where it starts each successive gear) it's making about 80%.  For the Vette to maintain the same 90%+ peak power in the pull, the gearing would need to be such that it never dropped below 5400 RPM.  And to start at the same 84% peak, 3rd would need to be 10% shorter so that the Vette started at 5000 RPM.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

GoCougs

Stats = aforementioned test stats, not car tech stats. By those C8 test stats, both the M4 and Cayman GTS get complete walked in any aspect, esp. the Cayman. Jesus, C&D shows the C8 time of 30-50 under 2 seconds. See the myriad C8 vs. 911 real-world test by many of the same channels - despite virtually identically test stats the 911 walks the C8 in the real world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avVNWWBnQek

C8 wringers? I dunno. I don't intent to be too critical. All told, the C7->C8 leap is something no other automaker on the planet could pull off, and same with some of the rumored hi-po versions (i.e., ~625 hp N/A V8).




Submariner

The poor Supra is just hunched over in the corner thinking "hey guys what about me?"
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

MX793

Quote from: GoCougs on July 13, 2021, 08:58:16 PM
Stats = aforementioned test stats, not car tech stats. By those C8 test stats, both the M4 and Cayman GTS get complete walked in any aspect, esp. the Cayman. Jesus, C&D shows the C8 time of 30-50 under 2 seconds. See the myriad C8 vs. 911 real-world test by many of the same channels - despite virtually identically test stats the 911 walks the C8 in the real world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avVNWWBnQek

C8 wringers? I dunno. I don't intent to be too critical. All told, the C7->C8 leap is something no other automaker on the planet could pull off, and same with some of the rumored hi-po versions (i.e., ~625 hp N/A V8).





And what do "test stats" say about the Vette's acceleration performance at super-legal (>70 mph) speeds as compared to M4s, Coxsters, 911s, etc?
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Gotta-Qik-C7

2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

Payman

#1255
Naturally aspirated 5.5 litre flat plane V8, 600+ hp, 8500-9000 rpm! Ohhhhh myyyyyy....

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37755007/2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-official-photo-released/




Payman

Like the coffin spoke wheels, and the spoiler.  :wub:

Gotta-Qik-C7

Quote from: Rockraven on September 27, 2021, 06:08:40 PM
Like the coffin spoke wheels, and the spoiler.  :wub:
Me too! The subtle styling upgrades make s big difference!
2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

Gotta-Qik-C7

2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

GoCougs

If that's the real engine/exhaust sound, that is beyond legit. At 600+ hp N/A, no one is doing V8s like that right now, and even in recent times, no one really did it. The F458 peaked at well less than 600 hp, and the Ford Voodoo barely beat the 15+ year-old LS7. This sounds like it will rival the N/A V10s of Lamborghini and Audi. Will be very interesting.

Two things I REALLY don't - squar-cle steering wheel and exhaust tips. Bugs me to no end. I have a feeling that on the Z06 the latter will be different, but still.