Tesla

Started by SJ_GTI, February 23, 2017, 07:11:02 AM

93JC

Quote from: MX793 on November 15, 2018, 11:34:20 AM
Cars with frameless side windows that slightly lower the window when you open the door are all problematic in winter because these can freeze and the upper lip that the glass tucks into, while somewhat compliant in warm weather, hardens in freezing temps.  Makes it difficult to open the door and near impossible to close properly until things thaw out.

Yes, I know, in fairness it's not just Tesla that has this sort of door opening mechanism. Mercedes-Benz CLAs work the same way, I think they're equally silly, but I've used many CLAs and have first-hand experience that this doesn't (seem to) regularly happen with them.

93JC

Quote from: MrH on November 15, 2018, 11:58:41 AM
The corvette has manual releases on the floor if the electronic latch were to fail.  Something the Model 3 rear doors or trunks don't have.

Really? Tesla doesn't even have emergency manual releases? Holy fuck.

MX793

Quote from: 93JC on November 15, 2018, 03:29:14 PM
Yes, I know, in fairness it's not just Tesla that has this sort of door opening mechanism. Mercedes-Benz CLAs work the same way, I think they're equally silly, but I've used many CLAs and have first-hand experience that this doesn't (seem to) regularly happen with them.

I haven't regularly driven either of my Mustangs in the snow.  Basically only if I get caught in a very early or very late season snowfall.  Even in those relatively few times I drove those cars when it was snowing, I encountered window sticking issues.  I can only imagine how bad it would be in the dead of winter when temperatures are colder and the snow more plentiful.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Char

Quote from: 93JC on November 11, 2018, 10:29:09 AM
I just can't stand the Tesla/Elon acolytes and their bullshit.

I have nothing against electric cars—I've done the math and it is very compelling—but the hyperbole from the fanbois would have you believe that any electric car that isn't a Tesla is a colossal turd for a myriad of reasons that boil down to "because it's not a Tesla". I don't like that kind of bullshit.

I like the idea of the Tesla sales model, selling directly to consumers for a fixed non-negotiable price with no hidden fees and other such bullshit endemic to sales at dealerships. I don't like that the sales model is predicated on putting down big deposits years in advance, and when it is finally being built the actual cost is grossly inflated from the promised cost.

I don't like the gewgaws like "Falcon doors", and I'll never get past the execrable touchscreen controls for eeeeeverything.
Quote from: 565 on December 26, 2012, 09:13:44 AM
... Nissan needs to use these shocks on the GT-R.  It would be like the Incredible Hulk wielding Thor's hammer.... unstoppable.

Char

Quote from: 565 on December 26, 2012, 09:13:44 AM
... Nissan needs to use these shocks on the GT-R.  It would be like the Incredible Hulk wielding Thor's hammer.... unstoppable.

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 15, 2018, 12:09:33 PM
TBH, I was largely playing Devil's Advocate there, but I guess my overall point is that despite all these problems, buyers don't seem to care a whole lot and Tesla keeps exceeding expectations financially. Earlier this year, a bunch of experts were saying that they'd be bankrupt by now, but they've become profitable and appear to be stronger than ever.

Because people are dumb. The people buying these cars don't even understand the issues with poor design which we've discussed. And they don't care either.
Will

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: MX793 on November 15, 2018, 06:03:44 PM
I haven't regularly driven either of my Mustangs in the snow.  Basically only if I get caught in a very early or very late season snowfall.  Even in those relatively few times I drove those cars when it was snowing, I encountered window sticking issues.  I can only imagine how bad it would be in the dead of winter when temperatures are colder and the snow more plentiful.

Subarus have had frameless windows for a long long time and I've never heard of winter issues with them.

Impreza has very very soft and thick rubber around the top and sides of the lower-able windows.
Will

MX793

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on November 15, 2018, 07:43:13 PM
Subarus have had frameless windows for a long long time and I've never heard of winter issues with them.

Impreza has very very soft and thick rubber around the top and sides of the lower-able windows.

Does the Impreza roll the window down half an inch automatically when you pull on the door handle to allow the door to open or is it old-school frameless (top of window just presses against a big bulb seal)?  Old-school frameless are fine (my 240SX had them, never had an issue).  It's these newer ones where the window actually tucks into a seam and when you pull the door handle, the window actually rolls down a little bit and then rolls back up when you close the door that have been problematic.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: MX793 on November 15, 2018, 07:53:18 PM
Does the Impreza roll the window down half an inch automatically when you pull on the door handle to allow the door to open or is it old-school frameless (top of window just presses against a big bulb seal)?  Old-school frameless are fine (my 240SX had them, never had an issue).  It's these newer ones where the window actually tucks into a seam and when you pull the door handle, the window actually rolls down a little bit and then rolls back up when you close the door that have been problematic.

Impreza is old-school.

I can see the seam causing issues- not a lot of room and ice would indeed mess stuff up.
But I'm sure those cars are probably quieter inside....
Will

CaminoRacer

I don't like frameless windows. Too much form over function
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

MX793

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on November 15, 2018, 07:59:02 PM
Impreza is old-school.

I can see the seam causing issues- not a lot of room and ice would indeed mess stuff up.
But I'm sure those cars are probably quieter inside....

They do it for better air sealing, but if your window freezes due to ice build up at the base, it makes getting in and out of the car a pain.  Opening is OK since the outer edge is a semi-pliable, rubbery material (though it stiffens up in the cold), but closing, especially in winter, doesn't work so well.

This is what I'm specifically talking about

https://youtu.be/7fkqODRGJ6o?t=564

Ford compounded the issue on the Mustang because that black stripping you see at the bottom of the window isn't the wiper seal.  The rubber wiper seal is behind/below that.  That outer stripping just makes a nice trough for slush and water to collect in and then freeze solid when the car is parked, pretty much ensuring that your window will freeze and there's no easy way to clean the ice out of that little trough.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

BimmerM3

Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 15, 2018, 08:03:26 PM
I don't like frameless windows. Too much form over function

Yeah I never really understood why anyone would put them on non-convertibles.

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 15, 2018, 08:08:05 PM
Yeah I never really understood why anyone would put them on non-convertibles.

It makes it really easy to replace the glass when it shatters from slamming to door or forcing it open when it's iced up.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

giant_mtb

Quote from: MX793 on November 15, 2018, 07:53:18 PM
Does the Impreza roll the window down half an inch automatically when you pull on the door handle to allow the door to open or is it old-school frameless (top of window just presses against a big bulb seal)?

IME, no, Subarus don't do the window roll. They just open/close as they are.

As an aside, frameless windows make detailing a joy. I don't have to roll the windows down to clean the top edges and there's less door jamb to clean. Winwin.

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 15, 2018, 08:17:02 PM
It makes it really easy to replace the glass when it shatters from slamming to door or forcing it open when it's iced up.

:lol:
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

giant_mtb

I wonder how often that happens with Subarus. They're clearly designed with snow and cold in mind, given their geography.

12,000 RPM

Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 15, 2018, 08:08:05 PM
Yeah I never really understood why anyone would put them on non-convertibles.
Um they're beautiful.



They can be well done with enough money.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

BimmerM3

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2018, 11:28:31 AM
Um they're beautiful.

They can be well done with enough money.

Fair enough, I guess. I don't personally care about losing pillar, but to each his own.

Plus that doesn't explain Subaru doing it.

MX793

Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 16, 2018, 12:56:35 PM
Fair enough, I guess. I don't personally care about losing pillar, but to each his own.

Plus that doesn't explain Subaru doing it.

IIRC, it allowed for beefier pillars and structure around the door frames than framed doors.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Galaxy

Quote from: 93JC on November 15, 2018, 03:31:10 PM
Really? Tesla doesn't even have emergency manual releases? Holy fuck.

The BMW i3 can not even open the rear doors without the fronts being opened. If memory serves, there are other cars with electric lock, that do not have a manual override on the rear doors. Doug DeMuro always harps about this, as he should. Then there are the child locks of course with hinder any opening. 

BimmerM3

Quote from: Galaxy on November 16, 2018, 02:54:39 PM
The BMW i3 can not even open the rear doors without the fronts being opened.

Isn't that true of a lot of those rear suicide doors? FJ Cruiser, RX-8, some extended cab pickups, etc.

I mean... god forbid you sit in the back of a 2+2 coupe...

MX793

Quote from: Galaxy on November 16, 2018, 02:54:39 PM
The BMW i3 can not even open the rear doors without the fronts being opened. If memory serves, there are other cars with electric lock, that do not have a manual override on the rear doors. Doug DeMuro always harps about this, as he should. Then there are the child locks of course with hinder any opening. 

Child locks don't prevent someone outside of the vehicle, like a first responder, from opening the door.  Same with rear-hinged half-doors.  If there's a power failure in a Model 3, there is no way to open the rear doors to get an occupant out.  Your options are for the occupant to try to crawl into the front seat, crawl or be dragged out of the window, or cut the door off.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

BimmerM3

Quote from: MX793 on November 16, 2018, 04:04:26 PM
Child locks don't prevent someone outside of the vehicle, like a first responder, from opening the door.  Same with rear-hinged half-doors.  If there's a power failure in a Model 3, there is no way to open the rear doors to get an occupant out.  Your options are for the occupant to try to crawl into the front seat, crawl or be dragged out of the window, or cut the door off.

Oh, the exterior handles are electronic too? I figured that they were mechanical since they actually move.

Yeah, that is dumb.

12,000 RPM

All it's gonna take is one tragedy, sadly. Teslas are pretty safe, but that's a very stupid design decision.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Morris Minor

Tesla starts taking Model 3 orders in China
(Reuters) - Tesla Inc has started taking orders for its Model 3 sedan in China for a deposit of 8,000 yuan ($1,153.60), according to the electric carmaker's China website www.tesla.cn/model3/reserve.
Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk said, "Probably some deliveries in March, but April is more certain", after a Twitter user asked when the deliveries in China would begin.
Tesla declined to comment.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-model-3-china/tesla-starts-taking-model-3-orders-in-china-idUSKCN1NL1W0
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

veeman

Quote from: MX793 on November 15, 2018, 07:53:18 PM
Does the Impreza roll the window down half an inch automatically when you pull on the door handle to allow the door to open or is it old-school frameless (top of window just presses against a big bulb seal)?  Old-school frameless are fine (my 240SX had them, never had an issue).  It's these newer ones where the window actually tucks into a seam and when you pull the door handle, the window actually rolls down a little bit and then rolls back up when you close the door that have been problematic.

My Beetle had the kind which rolled down half an inch automatically.  I thought it was kinda cool.  I drove it through 3 winters in the Northeast US.  When it was really cold out, the door wouldn't shut properly.  It would close shut and not swing open but not completely.  I just had to keep driving for about 10 minutes and then everything would thaw enough that I could close the door completely.  Wasn't a big deal for me and it only happened when it was close to zero degrees F.

12,000 RPM

Z had frameless doors and the windows would drop I forget when. Was interesting to open the doors when the battery died
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Morris Minor

⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

GoCougs

Ole Neil has been overexposed IMO.

Jobs, Bezos, Gates, etc., created things that created sustained value, and that created the future. Musk is still working on the first part and things don't look so good.

AutobahnSHO

LOLS- Idiot spins a Tesla 3 at 130mph

Highlights:
-just after start calls Wendover "a hole"
- :45 lame music for a run up to 154mph
- 2:00 starts another run
- 2:40 starts to spin and drives like a tard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZbLeRD8hQE
Will