The Z06 was stupid fast and broke the previous fastest lap record set by Ford GT now that is seriously fast :rockon:.
The unexpected disappointment of the group in my opinion was the Porsche 911 Turbo because it nearly matched the lap times of Mustang GT500 :confused:
Atleast the Porsche GT3 saved face for the Porshe by putting blazingly quick second fastest lap times. However, compared to other cars it was basicly wearing street legal race tires. The other big surprise was the 3rd fastest laps posted by regular Vette :praise:.
The mighty mouse Lotus Elise edged the Audi R8 by a tenth which is no small thing :praise:.
The biggest shocker besides Mustang GT500 nearly matching the Porsche 911 turbo times was that BMW 335i coupe was faster then both more powerfull Audi RS4 and lighter and faster in house rival Z4 M coupe :confused:.? I would have never thought in hundred years that Mustang GT500 would nearly match Porsche 911 turbo time nor BMW 335i coupe beating powerfull rivals like RS4 which is suppose to compete against M3 not the basic 3 series. All of this without the LSD for the 335i. It edged the Z4 M coupe despite lacking the LSD, 30hp and weighing in at 54 Ibs more. One can only imagine what this car would be capable of if it had a true LSD. That is amazing.? :rockon:
Among the less powerfull cars the Soltice GXP was the winner edging out Mazda 3 and Mini cooper.
The Lightning Lap 2007 included the following cars.
LL1: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3
LL1: 2007 Mini Cooper S
LL1: 2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP
LL2: 2007 BMW Z4 M Coupe
LL2: 2007 BMW 335i Coupe
LL2: 2007 Chevrolet Corvette
LL2: 2007 Ford Shelby GT500
LL3: 2008 Audi R8
LL3: 2007 Audi RS4
LL3: 2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06
LL3: 2007 Lotus Exige S
LL3: 2007 Porsche 911 GT3
LL4: 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo
The ranking according to lap times is :
#1.? ?Corvette Z06 :-? 2:58.2 @ 82.7 mph
#2.? ?Porsche 911 GT3 :-? 3:01.8? @ 81.3 mph
#3.? ?Corvette :- 3:03.6 @ 80 mph
#4.? Lotus Exige S :-? 3:04.5 @ 79.8 mph
#5.? Audi R8 :- 3:04.6 @ 79.6 mph
#6. Porsche 911 Turbo :-? 3:05.8 @ 79.9 mph
#7. Mustang GT500 :-? 3:05.9 @ 79.2 mph
#8. BMW 335i coupe :-? 3:10.5 @ 77.2 mph
#9. Audi RS4 :-? 3:11.2 @ 77 mph
#10. BMW Z4M coupe :-? 3:11.7 @ 77 mph
#11.? Pontiac Soltice GXP:? 3:15.7 @ 75.1 mph
#12.? Mazda Speed3 :? 3:16 @ 75.1 mph
#13.? Mini Copper S :? 3:22.9 @ 72.4 mph
Here is a link to the article: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/13173/the-lightning-lap-2007.html
I believe this is a repost.
Goes to show you how good the Corvettes (Z06 :rockon:) and the BMW 3-series really are.
I deam this is the huge sig thread.
welc0me to last month... :thumbsup:
In your face, RS4. (POS poseur sports sedan based on a FWD platform! :lol:)
kidding, kidding...
Quote from: the_koof on July 18, 2007, 05:17:19 PM
Goes to show you how good the Corvettes (Z06 :rockon:) and the BMW 3-series really are.
You gotta love 'em!Even the Z51 outlapped the Exige! :ohyeah:
My bad I didnot read that other thread.
Quote from: VetteZ06 on July 18, 2007, 03:47:48 PM
I believe this is a repost.
I never thought that RS4 would beat the Z4 M even though it is very very close between both of them. I think the V8 of RS4 has some strong legs and that AWD is not bad at putting the power down thru turns.
Quote from: red_shift on July 18, 2007, 05:32:09 PM
In your face, RS4. (POS poseur sports sedan based on a FWD platform!? :lol:)
kidding, kidding...
Don't feel bad.? The other thread dealt almost exclusively with the Bimmers and the Audi with a little bit of talk about the other cars...and I don't believe anyone posted the full results in that thread either.
I'm most surprised at the GT500, Z06, and Z51 Vette.? Those are monster times by all three of those cars. I can't wait to see what a GT500KR will do with the much much better suspension setup.
I believe this track favors outright speed, right?
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=10223.msg512842#msg512842 date=1184852952
I believe this track favors outright speed, right?
According to C/D it's very balanced.
Wow, the normal Vette is a monster! :confused:
I'm becoming a bigger and bigger Vette fan. Traditionally I have been a Viper fan, but the Vettes are killing everything in their way.
Too bad they didn't include a Viper in the comparison so we could see how it stacked-up.
Quote from: VetteZ06 on July 18, 2007, 03:47:48 PM
I believe this is a repost.
Someone made a thread about the results of the 335 and RS4, and discussion mainly focused on those to cars.
Quote from: Tave on July 19, 2007, 09:53:44 AM
Too bad they didn't include a Viper in the comparison so we could see how it stacked-up.
It ran a 3:01.6 last year.
Ahead of the base Vette but behind the Z06? That makes sense.
And it looked better doing it, too. :evildude:
Quote from: JYODER240 on July 19, 2007, 09:58:00 AM
It ran a 3:01.6 last year.
Faster then the GT3. Barely, but it's still faster. I can't wait to see what the 600 hp Viper will do.
There was something obviously wrong with the 911 Turbo. Even given the profound (almost absurd) leeway that it has equivalent handling to the GT500, it is both much, much quicker and has much, much better brakes.
Something's been very fishy about the Turbo since its release. It was posting 3.4 0-60 runs in the snow and now it's getting its ass handed to it by everything under the sun.
Quote from: 1 BAD 7 on July 18, 2007, 06:25:42 PM
I never thought that RS4 would beat the Z4 M even though it is very very close between both of them. I think the V8 of RS4 has some strong legs and that AWD is not bad at putting the power down thru turns.
But the RS4 has, what, 90 more hp than the Z4 M? With that kind of power advantage, you'd think it would kill the Z4 M unless the track was excessively technical.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 19, 2007, 10:28:14 AM
There was something obviously wrong with the 911 Turbo. Even given the profound (almost absurd) leeway that it has equivalent handling to the GT500, it is both much, much quicker and has much, much better brakes.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it.? They stated it didn't like corners.? The power went away after a few laps just like it did in the GT500 which is something that boosted cars do if they aren't cooled properly. Heat soak sucks a lot of power.
As before, there was only one entrant in this class, this time in the shape of a Porsche 911 Turbo. Despite a strong 480 horsepower, it wasn?t that happy around VIR and ran an unexpectedly mediocre 3:05.8 time, partly because of its 3528-pound mass, partly because the power went away after a couple of laps, and partly because it really doesn?t like to dance. Although the Audi R8 was down on straightaway speed, it was undeniably easier to drive fast. The Turbo suffers from an overly stimulating amount of midcorner lift-throttle oversteer, although it?s reasonably stable as long as it?s set up early and powered through the turns. As with all 911s, the brake-pedal feel and the steering are superb, but the engine note is a bit too muted.
The Turbo was a touch underwhelming, making us wonder where the model fits into the 911 range, now that the Carrera S is so good and the GT3 so much more extreme. Still, the upcoming GT2?essentially a GT3 with the Turbo?s powertrain?might have a shot at the Ford GT?s LL4 time of 3:00.7 that we set at the 2006 Lightning Lap contest.
Oh I remember now! Doesn't the Turbo have some engine management system that ups boost and increases power for a short amount of time under full-throttle? In that case it can burn in everyday driving but that power won't be on tap if you're constantly getting on it, like you would at a track.
SNAP!
Quote from: HEMI666 on July 19, 2007, 10:39:45 AM
I don't think there's anything wrong with it.? They stated it didn't like corners.? The power went away after a few laps just like it did in the GT500 which is something that boosted cars do if they aren't cooled properly.? Heat soak sucks a lot of power.
If the GT500 did indeed have similar power disappearing issues, it should have similary ratched down; leaving it still far below the 911 Turbo. I skeptical about this; what of the Ford GT's honors last year?
IMO, this lap comparison isn't worth a whole lot. Per the previous thread on the subject, this was the single fastest lap for each car; no lap averages, no
driver averages, and on different days. It's interesting perhaps, but it doesn't mean really much of anything as a gage of relative performance.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 19, 2007, 10:54:53 AM
If the GT500 did indeed have similar power disappearing issues, it should have similary ratched down; leaving it still far below the 911 Turbo. I skeptical about this; what of the Ford GT's honors last year?
The Ford GT's cooling system obviously did the job. The GT500 and 911 Turbo obviously are quite affected by Heat Soak.
"There were no such discussions concerning the Ford Shelby GT500, which returned because bad ignition parts soured its visit to last year?s Lightning Lap. It?s a strange car?it moves around obsessively when driven hard, with so much body roll and pitch that it?s hard to believe it was designed to perform in such a manner. It is, however, a safe car to drive fast because it is exceptionally predictable, is seemingly impossible to spin, and has brakes that hold up well. As long as the ambient temperature was below 70 degrees, the GT500 was fairly quick and posted a 3:05.9 lap. But when the temperature climbed to about 90 degrees, the engine started lying down, and the lap time lengthened by four seconds. None of the other cars was so affected by the heat." QuoteIMO, this lap comparison isn't worth a whole lot. Per the previous thread on the subject, this was the single fastest lap for each car; no lap averages, no driver averages, and on different days. It's interesting perhaps, but it doesn't mean really much of anything as a gage of relative performance.
It means a lot actually. The difference between one day and the next will be minimal at best if the weather and temp are similar. Fastest lap is the only way to do it, because that is what that particular car is capable of. Lap averages will take into account a lap where the driver misses a shift or some other driver error that has nothing to do with the car's performance.
Quote from: HEMI666 on July 19, 2007, 11:14:29 AM
The Ford GT's cooling system obviously did the job.? The GT500 and 911 Turbo obviously are quite affected by Heat Soak.
Heat soak isn't really a cooling system issue; it's more a function of engine component design.
However, I still remain skeptical that the 911 Turbo's smack down was solely a function of heat soak.
Quote
It means a lot actually. The difference between one day and the next will be minimal at best if the weather and temp are similar. Fastest lap is the only way to do it, because that is what that particular car is capable of. Lap averages will take into account a lap where the driver misses a shift or some other driver error that has nothing to do with the car's performance.
I disagree. Driver is a huge factor on road course performance. It's safe to assume that they used good drivers, but no driver is of the same skill.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 19, 2007, 12:58:56 PM
Heat soak isn't really a cooling system issue; it's more a function of engine component design.
However, I still remain skeptical that the 911 Turbo's smack down was solely a function of heat soak.
I never said it was THE issue. I said it didn't like the corners, which is basically what the article stated.
QuoteI disagree. Driver is a huge factor on road course performance. It's safe to assume that they used good drivers, but no driver is of the same skill.
It can be, but I'm sure everyone took a turn in each car and they used the fastest times. I could be wrong though.
I agree there is something fishy with 911 turbo. Maybe its just too much power to handle by such a rear bias layout during hard conrnering. Because after all the Mustang is supercharged and BMW 335i is turbocharged.
Another strange thing is C/D didnot mention anything about 335i overheating etc. after hard lap. It must have had the upgraded oil cooler BMW has now included with the 335i.
Quote from: 1 BAD 7 on July 19, 2007, 02:29:18 PM
I agree there is something fishy with 911 turbo. Maybe its just too much power to handle by such a rear bias layout during hard conrnering. Because after all the Mustang is supercharged and BMW 335i is turbocharged.
Another strange thing is C/D didnot mention anything about 335i overheating etc. after hard lap. It must have had the upgraded oil cooler BMW has now included with the 335i.
The automatic doesn't come with it, but the manual with the sport package comes with it standard.
Another thing to keep in mind with the Turbo is that 911's are known to be difficult to drive fast. It's probably easier to set fast times in a Mustang or Vette than in a 911. So the times we see by the Turbo may not be what it's capable of depending on the skill of the drivers.
Ahhh......I see I dont know why I thought both of them came with it. Why doesnot the automatic come with it are the auto's not heating up as bad.
Quote from: HEMI666 on July 19, 2007, 03:30:42 PM
The automatic doesn't come with it, but the manual with the sport package comes with it standard.
Quote from: 1 BAD 7 on July 20, 2007, 12:03:18 AM
Ahhh......I see I dont know why I thought both of them came with it. Why doesnot the automatic come with it are the auto's not heating up as bad.
I have no idea. All I know is the manual with the sport package comes with it and the auto with the sport package doesn't. Maybe they don't think it will be driven as hard as the manual.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 19, 2007, 10:54:53 AM
If the GT500 did indeed have similar power disappearing issues, it should have similary ratched down; leaving it still far below the 911 Turbo. I skeptical about this; what of the Ford GT's honors last year?
IMO, this lap comparison isn't worth a whole lot. Per the previous thread on the subject, this was the single fastest lap for each car; no lap averages, no driver averages, and on different days. It's interesting perhaps, but it doesn't mean really much of anything as a gage of relative performance.
The Ford GT uses a twn-screw supercharger, this is much more efficient than the roots type blower found on the GT500. The roots Eaton blower (commonly referred to as the Heaton) will warm the air during boost far more, producing heat soak of the intercooler much faster, than reduced timing etc. cutting power. So it is not surprising that the GT500 suffers more than the better engineered Ford GT from the heat of the day or repeated laps.
The porsche is more surprising, you would think they could have engineered a better IC, esecailly since it no doubt air-to-air with a turbo, which should be less prone to heat soak. Maybe the IC is not big enough, or maybe that was debris in it, a bird or garbage got in the way.
I could have sworn that the Ford GT uses a Roots-style blower.
Quote from: HEMI666 on July 19, 2007, 03:30:42 PM
The automatic doesn't come with it, but the manual with the sport package comes with it standard.
Do you have any documentation on it?
I have heard that originally the automatic did not come with an intercooler, but that now they have added it to all 335i's. I cannot find any mention of it on their website (one way or another).
Quote from: SJ_GTI on July 20, 2007, 12:11:14 PM
Do you have any documentation on it?
I have heard that originally the automatic did not come with an intercooler, but that now they have added it to all 335i's. I cannot find any mention of it on their website (one way or another).
I believe you are correct, IIRC all 335i now come with the extra oil cooler.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on July 20, 2007, 12:11:14 PM
Do you have any documentation on it?
Read the article in Motor Trend this month where they pitted the G37 vs. the 335i with automatics.
QuoteI have heard that originally the automatic did not come with an intercooler, but that now they have added it to all 335i's. I cannot find any mention of it on their website (one way or another).
That's correct. They do now, but up until just recently the autos did not come with it.
Quote from: HEMI666 on July 20, 2007, 12:47:46 PM
Read the article in Motor Trend this month where they pitted the G37 vs. the 335i with automatics.
That's correct. They do now, but up until just recently the autos did not come with it.
Let us be clear that we are talking about oil coolers, not intercoolers. And, the 335i auto has had the extra oil cooler for a good couple months now (at least 3), MT happened to get a 335i (provided by Infiniti from what I hear) that did not have one.
Quote from: LonghornTX on July 20, 2007, 02:07:59 PM
Let us be clear that we are talking about oil coolers, not intercoolers.? And, the 335i auto has had the extra oil cooler for a good couple months now (at least 3), MT happened to get a 335i (provided by Infiniti from what I hear) that did not have one.
I assume this extra oil cooler on the auto is actually a transmission cooler.
Quote from: 1 BAD 7 on July 19, 2007, 02:29:18 PM
I agree there is something fishy with 911 turbo. Maybe its just too much power to handle by such a rear bias layout during hard conrnering. Because after all the Mustang is supercharged and BMW 335i is turbocharged.
Another strange thing is C/D didnot mention anything about 335i overheating etc. after hard lap. It must have had the upgraded oil cooler BMW has now included with the 335i.
That rear engined layout just can't handle that much power.The handling is too quirky with all that weight hanging behind the rear wheels.Porsche should consider swtching to a mid engine(Boxter,Cayman) design next go around!
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on July 20, 2007, 04:10:08 PM
That rear engined layout just can't handle that much power.The handling is too quirky with all that weight hanging behind the rear wheels.Porsche should consider swtching to a mid engine(Boxter,Cayman) design next go around!
stfu!
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on July 20, 2007, 04:10:08 PM
That rear engined layout just can't handle that much power.The handling is too quirky with all that weight hanging behind the rear wheels.Porsche should consider swtching to a mid engine(Boxter,Cayman) design next go around!
More power and less weight than the Turbo yet it seems to handle fine.
(http://germancarscene.com/wp-content/uploads/gt3rsr1-10-07-06.jpg)
Quote from: NACar on July 20, 2007, 02:11:46 PM
I assume this extra oil cooler on the auto is actually a transmission cooler.
Nope, it is an extra engine oil cooler we are referring to. So legend has it, BMW thought owners of the autos wouldn't push their cars as hard as the MT sport package vehicles (the original vehicles with two), so they wouldn't need it.
Quote from: JYODER240 on July 20, 2007, 05:19:08 PM
More power and less weight than the Turbo yet it seems to handle fine.
(http://germancarscene.com/wp-content/uploads/gt3rsr1-10-07-06.jpg)
Isn't the turbo AWD and GT3s RWD? :huh:
Quote from: NACar on July 20, 2007, 04:22:42 PM
stfu!
Everyone knows the 911 is tailhappy!We also know the Cayman and Boxster are better in the handling department.So prove me wrong smart ass!
Quote
Quote from: JYODER240 on July 20, 2007, 05:19:08 PM
More power and less weight than the Turbo yet it seems to handle fine.
(http://germancarscene.com/wp-content/uploads/gt3rsr1-10-07-06.jpg)
I'm sure it does,but I was reffering to the prodution models. :ohyeah:
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on July 22, 2007, 03:53:14 PM
I'm sure it does,but I was reffering to the prodution models. :ohyeah:
Techinicaly it is a production version that you can buy it's just not street legal. But I get your point.
I was wondering if Z4 M coupe in this test was still wearing those two generation old OEM tires rather then the more new state of the art tires. I know BMW had a brain freez and droped the ball by equipping such a performance machine with dated tires during its introduction last year. Because in theory the Z4 M coupe should be faster then the 335i coupe thanks to lighter weight and better power to weight ratio and a LSD.
Quote from: 1 BAD 7 on July 27, 2007, 12:03:49 PM
I was wondering if Z4 M coupe in this test was still wearing those two generation old OEM tires rather then the more new state of the art tires. I know BMW had a brain freez and droped the ball by equipping such a performance machine with dated tires during its introduction last year. Because in theory the Z4 M coupe should be faster then the 335i coupe thanks to lighter weight and better power to weight ratio and a LSD.
Do you write brochures for BMW or something?
No but do you always ask such retarded questions instead of providing any positive info ;).
Quote from: JYODER240 on July 27, 2007, 04:48:02 PM
Do you write brochures for BMW or something?
Quote from: 1 BAD 7 on July 27, 2007, 11:37:46 PM
No but do you always ask such retarded questions instead of providing any positive info ;).
Nope I just ask retarded questions.
Question: Which is the best choice for performance?
a. Audi RS4 with 18" wheels
b. Audi RS4 with 22" wheels
c. Audi RS4 with 30" wheels
I'll pick
D. The RS4 sucks.
You forgot to put your favorite choice:
Audi RS4 with 12" wheels :evildude:
Quote from: JYODER240 on July 27, 2007, 11:41:51 PM
Nope I just ask retarded questions.
Question: Which is the best choice for performance?
a. Audi RS4 with 18" wheels
b. Audi RS4 with 22" wheels
c. Audi RS4 with 30" wheels
Quote from: 1 BAD 7 on July 27, 2007, 11:49:11 PM
You forgot to put your favorite choice:
Audi RS4 with 12" wheels :evildude:
Wrong, only BMWs are good for performance :nono:
Na na na.....beep.....you got it wrong :nono:.......... only BMW with 11" wheels are good for performance compared to 12" Audi RS4. ;)
Quote from: JYODER240 on July 27, 2007, 11:50:03 PM
Wrong, only BMWs are good for performance :nono:
Quote from: JYODER240 on July 27, 2007, 04:48:02 PM
Do you write brochures for BMW or something?
Actually, he just reads them and memorizes them.
http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=10042.msg500354#msg500354
Quote from: 1 BAD 7 on July 27, 2007, 11:52:08 PM
Na na na.....beep.....you got it wrong :nono:.......... only BMW with 11" wheels are good for performance compared to 12" Audi RS4. ;)
Off Topic,nice gixxer!
Atleast I have the ability to memorize but because your brain in located near your anus you dont have that ability :evildude:
Quote from: Danish on July 28, 2007, 12:02:42 AM
Actually, he just reads them and memorizes them.
http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=10042.msg500354#msg500354
You too man :ohyeah:.
What year is your gixxer and do you have any mods done to it.
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on July 28, 2007, 07:05:41 PM
Off Topic,nice gixxer!
Quote from: 1 BAD 7 on July 31, 2007, 09:48:23 PM
Atleast I have the ability to memorize but because your brain in located near your anus you dont have that ability :evildude:
I have something that I'd like to locate near
your anus :wub:
this is becoming one of my favorite threads
Keep your gay comments for your boyfriends :evildude:
Quote from: NACar on July 31, 2007, 09:53:41 PM
I have something that I'd like to locate near your anus :wub:
Quote from: 1 BAD 7 on July 31, 2007, 09:49:19 PM
You too man :ohyeah:.
What year is your gixxer and do you have any mods done to it.
I just have the basics done.It's a '04 600.I got a power commander,Yosh slip on,and the normal cosmetics(undertail,frame sliders,led blinkers,tinted windscreen,etc.).