ALPHA.... I mean Alfa!!!!!

Started by r0tor, October 12, 2018, 05:19:56 PM

MexicoCityM3

My M cars revert to default settings when turned on. The M5 has an M button on the steering wheel you can press for your personalized choices (suspension, DSC mode, transmission aggressiveness, steering weight, throttle response). The new M3 has two such buttons that you can program with combinations as needed. The new M3 also has a "driver profile" that is associated to that and any other settings (like seat memory positions for example). So I can have a "street" profile with two personalized combos as well as a "track profile" with two completely different combos.
Founder, BMW Car Club de México
http://bmwclub.org.mx
'05 M3 E46 6SPD Mystic Blue
'08 M5 E60 SMG  Space Grey
'11 1M E82 6SPD Sapphire Black
'16 GT4 (1/3rd Share lol)
'18 M3 CS
'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)

r0tor

I think they need to focus more on 1 or 2 drive modes rather then 17 individual custom settings with 5 levels each...

Just concentrate and put all the effort on 1 or 2 well sorted modes an call it a day.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

mzziaz

Nice!

It's beautiful in white. Best car in it's class, imo.
Cuore Sportivo

mzziaz

#63
Now there are two Turismo Internazionales on the forum, btw.
Cuore Sportivo

FoMoJo

Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 15, 2018, 07:39:30 AM
I have to admit, I've never gotten into the goofy stuff like "exhaust sound" control, and rarely done more than he general "sport" and "comfort" type settings.
I don't see the point of having different exhaust sounds.  Alfas, in the past, have always made a beautiful sound, even the I4s; maybe even, especially, the I4s.  See The Graduate for an example.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

r0tor

My chief problem with all the performance modes is there is little to no benefit to them.

There is no point to the steering settings on most cars.  It creates no better feel or feedback.  Just fake sportiness.

Why do you need a jumpy throttle for a sports setting?  The last thing I actually want on a track is a jumpy overbooked throttle.

Stiffer shock settings almost never show any performance benefit.  Most of the change is almost always to ride quality aspects of the shock curve and not actual performance aspects.

It's all a bunch of fake hoopla that detracts from the engineering of getting the base package right.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Soup DeVille

Quote from: FoMoJo on October 15, 2018, 10:19:36 AM
I don't see the point of having different exhaust sounds.  Alfas, in the past, have always made a beautiful sound, even the I4s; maybe even, especially, the I4s.  See The Graduate for an example.

Naww, the GTV6 and even the Milano sound way better than any Graduate.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

FoMoJo

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

12,000 RPM

Quote from: r0tor on October 15, 2018, 10:25:23 AM
My chief problem with all the performance modes is there is little to no benefit to them.

There is no point to the steering settings on most cars.  It creates no better feel or feedback.  Just fake sportiness.

Why do you need a jumpy throttle for a sports setting?  The last thing I actually want on a track is a jumpy overbooked throttle.

Stiffer shock settings almost never show any performance benefit.  Most of the change is almost always to ride quality aspects of the shock curve and not actual performance aspects.

It's all a bunch of fake hoopla that detracts from the engineering of getting the base package right.
I really wonder who those buttons are for. The best drivers' cars of the past had 2 settings... on and off :lol:

With regulatory constraints further strangling what cars can be, "driving engagement" is increasingly becoming having more buttons to push. It is a bit of a shame. After countless suspension setups I've definitely had some that really hit the sweet spot of comfort and performance. It's not hard at all. Softish springs, aggressive low speed damping, compliant high speed damping, some negative camber. My first Accord was on Koni/Neuspeeds... it was dialed in at all times but rode like a Cadillac. It was amazing.

Even with all that though the Giulia is def the pick of the litter for driving engagement... ZF8 + 2.0T and all
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Soup DeVille

Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

MrH

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 15, 2018, 11:25:07 AM
After countless suspension setups I've definitely had some that really hit the sweet spot of comfort and performance. It's not hard at all. Softish springs, aggressive low speed damping, compliant high speed damping, some negative camber


:wtf:

Come on man.  This is ridiculous and you know it.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

FoMoJo

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

FoMoJo

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

r0tor

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 15, 2018, 11:25:07 AM
I really wonder who those buttons are for. The best drivers' cars of the past had 2 settings... on and off :lol:

With regulatory constraints further strangling what cars can be, "driving engagement" is increasingly becoming having more buttons to push. It is a bit of a shame. After countless suspension setups I've definitely had some that really hit the sweet spot of comfort and performance. It's not hard at all. Softish springs, aggressive low speed damping, compliant high speed damping, some negative camber. My first Accord was on Koni/Neuspeeds... it was dialed in at all times but rode like a Cadillac. It was amazing.

Even with all that though the Giulia is def the pick of the litter for driving engagement... ZF8 + 2.0T and all

Alfa would have been fine without the adaptive suspension - the stock calibration is a sweet mix of ride comfort and handling.  My guess is the only reason the adaptive setup exists is because "everyone else does it"

If I was special ordering the car and not leftover shopping I would have been hesitant on ordering it.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Soup DeVille

Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Laconian

Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

r0tor

Yea, not a huge fan of that exhaust
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

12,000 RPM

Quote from: MrH on October 15, 2018, 11:33:20 AM
:wtf:

Come on man.  This is ridiculous and you know it.
You are right, I didn't drive on that suspension for 2 years in NYC. My bad
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

MrH

You boiling down something as complicated as car handling dynamics to qualitative descriptions and saying it should be easy for automakers to do is peak Sporty :lol:

Live look into vehicle dynamic departments everywhere: "Shit guys, this Sporty guy has it figured out.  He's had the blueprint this entire time!  If only we had seen his comments before.  Trash the calculators, tens of thousands of hours of development and testing.  We just need softish springs, aggressive low speed damping, compliant high speed damping, some negative camber, and we'll win Best Driver's Car no problem!"
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

CaminoRacer

Quote from: r0tor on October 15, 2018, 12:49:53 PM
Yea, not a huge fan of that exhaust

Sounds like a tractor.

Same problem as the Fiat 500 Abarth.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

cawimmer430

Interior picture is not loading.

Don't worry about reliability so much. Here are some current German Giulia and Stelio owners reporting that their cars have been fine. The first poster already has 44,000 km (posted in May 2018) with his Giulia Q4 and no issues.

Alfa's have improved dramatically. And even if they have some hiccups, they will still put a smile on your face just by driving so good. My BMW had some hiccups, but man it was (still is) so fun to drive. Always makes me smile, even if I am just cruising along in the city etc.

https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/thema-zuverlaessigkeit-erfahrungen-t6336003.html
-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
www.wimmerfotografie.de
www.facebook.com/wimmerfotografie

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 15, 2018, 11:25:07 AM
It's not hard at all. Softish springs, aggressive low speed damping, compliant high speed damping, some negative camber. My first Accord was on Koni/Neuspeeds... it was dialed in at all times but rode like a Cadillac. It was amazing.

Start your own car company already. You seem to know all that needs to be known.

Quote from: r0tor on October 15, 2018, 10:25:23 AM
My chief problem with all the performance modes is there is little to no benefit to them.

There is no point to the steering settings on most cars.  It creates no better feel or feedback.  Just fake sportiness.

Why do you need a jumpy throttle for a sports setting?  The last thing I actually want on a track is a jumpy overbooked throttle.

Stiffer shock settings almost never show any performance benefit.  Most of the change is almost always to ride quality aspects of the shock curve and not actual performance aspects.

It's all a bunch of fake hoopla that detracts from the engineering of getting the base package right.

Modes expand the range of a cars ability somewhat for very little cost because all the electronic components are there.. Some don't make sense (like the steering modes you mention) but others definitely do. When in stop & go traffic I appreciate a slower throttle response. Suspension modes help if you track since most tracks feel better in the harder modes. Gearbox aggressiveness is also useful.

Even very "purist" cars have modes and it isn't even that recent. The GT4 has adjustable suspension firmness, exhaust loudness and throttle response as well as 3 levels of stability control. The 1M and the E46 both have adjustable throttle response.

With the configurable combinations on single buttons it is very manageable, at least if you own the car. For a one day (or one week) journalist test it is a bit much. But there is a reason these features are in demand and basically must-have on new lux/sport cars these days.
Founder, BMW Car Club de México
http://bmwclub.org.mx
'05 M3 E46 6SPD Mystic Blue
'08 M5 E60 SMG  Space Grey
'11 1M E82 6SPD Sapphire Black
'16 GT4 (1/3rd Share lol)
'18 M3 CS
'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)

r0tor

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

cawimmer430

-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
www.wimmerfotografie.de
www.facebook.com/wimmerfotografie

Submariner

2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

MexicoCityM3

Founder, BMW Car Club de México
http://bmwclub.org.mx
'05 M3 E46 6SPD Mystic Blue
'08 M5 E60 SMG  Space Grey
'11 1M E82 6SPD Sapphire Black
'16 GT4 (1/3rd Share lol)
'18 M3 CS
'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)

FoMoJo

It has a hint of older Alfa's steering wheel and gauge surrounds.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Galaxy

I do like that the screens are integrated and not free standing.

r0tor

Quote from: Galaxy on October 15, 2018, 04:15:43 PM
I do like that the screens are integrated and not free standing.

Yea, I hate all of the tacked on screen designs of late.  This just integrates everything to remind you it's about the driving enjoyment and not the tech... which is completely what I want
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

12,000 RPM

Quote from: MrH on October 15, 2018, 01:24:01 PM
You boiling down something as complicated as car handling dynamics to qualitative descriptions and saying it should be easy for automakers to do is peak Sporty :lol:

Live look into vehicle dynamic departments everywhere: "Shit guys, this Sporty guy has it figured out.  He's had the blueprint this entire time!  If only we had seen his comments before.  Trash the calculators, tens of thousands of hours of development and testing.  We just need softish springs, aggressive low speed damping, compliant high speed damping, some negative camber, and we'll win Best Driver's Car no problem!"
IKR? Who in the world utilizes digressive shock valving? What a stupid concept.

http://www.bilsteincanada.com/blog/2017/11/motorsports-the-science-behind-the-valve-stack/

QuoteDigressive Valving
Digressive valving is characterized by a low flow rate at low shaft speeds. This results in more oil flow resistance. The resistance rate increases as shaft speeds increase, but only to a pre-determined level. At that point, the resistance tapers off and as the shaft speed continues to increase, the resistance remains constant. This eliminates unnecessary resistance and provides more control as the vehicle encounters irregularities in the road's surface.

https://www.ohlins.com/ohlins-unique-dual-flow-valve/

QuoteBecause DFV opens more quickly and easily on minor road imperfections, ride comfort is surprisingly supple and more akin to an OEM strut than a coilover set-up. Over undulating surfaces, the compliancy of the R&T units allows the car to crest bumps and pot-holes, whilst still keep stable and in control. Traction is always maintained at its optimum level. When comparing suspension, why settle for second best?

For bonus points you can quote where I claimed to know something OEMs don't. Most likely stock car suspensions don't have this kind of tech because it's more expensive. So in that way it's not "easy" but it's hardly outlandish.

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 15, 2018, 03:38:05 PM
Start your own car company already. You seem to know all that needs to be known.

My apologies, I know mods on the 'SPIN = playing God.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs