Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 22, 2024, 09:56:47 AMEVs only need mining once vs. constant extraction for gasoline throughout the car's life. Plus, battery recycling is very good. CATL has achieved a recovery rate of 99.6% for nickel, cobalt and manganese, and 91% for lithium. And battery chemistries like LFP and sodium batteries reduce the demand for nickel and cobalt.

To my knowledge, thar recycling is at a table top level not at scale - and no real details from an environmental perspective on what appears to be a seriously nasty process.

Quote from: giant_mtb on May 21, 2024, 06:54:36 PMMain difference being, oil was initially (and still is) relatively cheap compared to the millions/billions that would need to be invested into "renewable" resources to produce the same energy if everything is supposed to run on electricity.  As I've said before, as somebody who has lived in mine country their whole life...people think it's so simple and clean. But it's not.

EVs only need mining once vs. constant extraction for gasoline throughout the car's life. Plus, battery recycling is very good. CATL has achieved a recovery rate of 99.6% for nickel, cobalt and manganese, and 91% for lithium. And battery chemistries like LFP and sodium batteries reduce the demand for nickel and cobalt.

The Collector Car Feed YouTube channel is all about roasting cars.

https://www.youtube.com/@CollectorCarFeed/videos

Quote from: GoCougs on May 21, 2024, 11:52:12 PM[snip]
Detroit is failing at EVs, so there's that. Bailouts for all yet again.

The protectionist tariffs SPINners are squabbling over in the EVs thread are arguably one incarnation of bailouts.

that was awesome

Quote from: giant_mtb on May 21, 2024, 05:41:04 PM100% EV adoption will never happen in our lifetime. Those who want 100% EV do not understand how mining (to make their EVs) works.

Yes; mining and ensuing Middle East v2.0 will be a prominent deciding factor.

People are so damned broke expecting them to pay 25-50% more for their (new) vehicles is a deal breaker.

Detroit is failing at EVs, so there's that. Bailouts for all yet again.

I love being judgmental... and I know you do too.

https://x.com/floridathales/status/1792562350794358791

Quote from: giant_mtb on May 21, 2024, 06:54:36 PMMain difference being, oil was initially (and still is) relatively cheap compared to the millions/billions that would need to be invested into "renewable" resources to produce the same energy if everything is supposed to run on electricity.  As I've said before, as somebody who has lived in mine country their whole life...people think it's so simple and clean. But it's not.

This may or may not be something that resolves how energy is stored or how it's used, but does offer a glimpse at "new things" being discovered in the field of electronics.

New Breakthrough in Energy Storage – MIT Engineers Create Supercapacitor out of Ancient Materials

Two of humanity's most ubiquitous historical materials, cement and carbon black (which resembles very fine charcoal), may form the basis for a novel, low-cost energy storage system, according to a new study. The technology could facilitate the use of renewable energy sources such as solar, wind, and tidal power by allowing energy networks to remain stable despite fluctuations in renewable energy supply.

The two materials, the researchers found, can be combined with water to make a supercapacitor — an alternative to batteries — that could provide storage of electrical energy. As an example, the MIT researchers who developed the system say that their supercapacitor could eventually be incorporated into the concrete foundation of a house, where it could store a full day's worth of energy while adding little (or no) to the cost of the foundation and still providing the needed structural strength. The researchers also envision a concrete roadway that could provide contactless recharging for electric cars as they travel over that road.

Futuristic, maybe, but with a bunch of turbines, or other future form of energy capture generating power that is stored in the highway?  Certainly not in my lifetime or likely yours, but no doubt other viable means of generating and storing and distributing electricity without robbing the earth of scarce materials will be found. 

Quote from: FoMoJo on May 21, 2024, 06:15:13 PMIt took about a 100 years to develop reasonably efficient I/C engines so you're probably right.  Future development in the areas of batteries and capacitors may be the key to viable EVs that will eventually replace I/C vehicles.

Main difference being, oil was initially (and still is) relatively cheap compared to the millions/billions that would need to be invested into "renewable" resources to produce the same energy if everything is supposed to run on electricity.  As I've said before, as somebody who has lived in mine country their whole life...people think it's so simple and clean. But it's not.

Quote from: giant_mtb on May 21, 2024, 05:41:04 PM100% EV adoption will never happen in our lifetime. Those who want 100% EV do not understand how mining (to make their EVs) works.

It took about a 100 years to develop reasonably efficient I/C engines so you're probably right.  Future development in the areas of batteries and capacitors may be the key to viable EVs that will eventually replace I/C vehicles.