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Auto Talk => The Garage => Topic started by: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 01:48:58 PM

Title: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 01:48:58 PM
Car background:

1993 Impreza, 165k on the car, 117k on the engine.  The oil was changed about 300-350 miles ago.

I drive a very modest drive to work -- about 3-4 miles in dense traffic.  It takes a little under 20 minutes to get to work from my apartment.  If my calculations are correct, I am averaging about 15 mpg right now, if that.

I'd prefer not to take the bus to work because of wait times, inclement weather, and the fact that I really don't like riding the bus, but is that poor of gas mileage to be expected for such driving?  Is there any way to improve it?
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Rupert on May 18, 2008, 02:08:22 PM
Spark plugs and wires?
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: The Pirate on May 18, 2008, 02:09:29 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 01:48:58 PM
Car background:

1993 Impreza, 165k on the car, 117k on the engine.  The oil was changed about 300-350 miles ago.

I drive a very modest drive to work -- about 3-4 miles in dense traffic.  It takes a little under 20 minutes to get to work from my apartment.  If my calculations are correct, I am averaging about 15 mpg right now, if that.

I'd prefer not to take the bus to work because of wait times, inclement weather, and the fact that I really don't like riding the bus, but is that poor of gas mileage to be expected for such driving?  Is there any way to improve it?


You already stated the reason for the poor mileage - "3 to 4 miles in dense traffic."  The car probably has a cold engine for half of that commute (cold engine = worse fuel economy) and you're always switching from the throttle to the brakes in traffic, which hurts mileage as well.

Plus, it's an AWD car with a small engine saddled to an automatic transmission.  That's not the ideal drivetrain for efficiency.  You could try changing your plugs, wires, air filter, etc., but I doubt you'll see a substantial increase.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Secret Chimp on May 18, 2008, 02:19:10 PM
We had an automatic 94 2.2L Legacy wagon and it would easily get mileage in the teens. You might try changing out any differential fluids you have for compatible synthetics.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 02:20:04 PM
Quote from: The Pirate on May 18, 2008, 02:09:29 PM

You already stated the reason for the poor mileage - "3 to 4 miles in dense traffic."  The car probably has a cold engine for half of that commute (cold engine = worse fuel economy) and you're always switching from the throttle to the brakes in traffic, which hurts mileage as well.

Plus, it's an AWD car with a small engine saddled to an automatic transmission.  That's not the ideal drivetrain for efficiency.  You could try changing your plugs, wires, air filter, etc., but I doubt you'll see a substantial increase.

So I should just bite the bullet?
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: J86 on May 18, 2008, 02:55:18 PM
Bite the bullet, ride a bike, it will be quicker!  Shit, I rode one 7 miles this past summer to work 'cause it's less stressful than sitting in traffic.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: The Pirate on May 18, 2008, 03:03:27 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 02:20:04 PM
So I should just bite the bullet?


The bullet being what?  New tranny, new car...?  You have no payment on that car, and you know it's history.  I'd keep it.  Even if you get something else that brings you up to 25mpg, you are still going to come out behind because you'll be making payments (and your insurance costs will go up as well).
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 03:09:26 PM
Quote from: The Pirate on May 18, 2008, 03:03:27 PM

The bullet being what?  New tranny, new car...?  You have no payment on that car, and you know it's history.  I'd keep it.  Even if you get something else that brings you up to 25mpg, you are still going to come out behind because you'll be making payments (and your insurance costs will go up as well).

On the highway, I'm still averaging somewhere around 30 mpg, but this transmission just doesn't like city driving.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 03:14:18 PM
Quote from: J86 on May 18, 2008, 02:55:18 PM
Bite the bullet, ride a bike, it will be quicker!  Shit, I rode one 7 miles this past summer to work 'cause it's less stressful than sitting in traffic.

The traffic in this city sucks, and the drivers are worse.  I can't see myself buying one.  Also, I'm seemingly getting more than enough of a workout at work with all of the running around and washing.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Northlands on May 18, 2008, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 03:09:26 PM
On the highway, I'm still averaging somewhere around 30 mpg, but this transmission just doesn't like city driving.

Yikes, that's quite a difference between city and hwy. Besides some of the normal maintenance recommendations, is there another route to work available you can take? I've changed mine a few times to suit a more mileage friendly experience and it does work.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: The Pirate on May 18, 2008, 03:19:48 PM
Quote from: Northlands on May 18, 2008, 03:15:39 PM
Yikes, that's quite a difference between city and hwy. Besides some of the normal maintenance recommendations, is there another route to work available you can take? I've changed mine a few times to suit a more mileage friendly experience and it does work.


That's actually a really good idea.  I did something similar, there's myriad ways for me to get to work and school.  The route I usually take is a bit longer (an extra 3 miles or so), but the traffic density and "stop and go" stuff is much less, so the increased fuel economy more than makes up for it.  It's probably the best route in terms of time, as well.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Northlands on May 18, 2008, 03:15:39 PM
Yikes, that's quite a difference between city and hwy. Besides some of the normal maintenance recommendations, is there another route to work available you can take? I've changed mine a few times to suit a more mileage friendly experience and it does work.

There's an excellent alternative route.  The only problem with it is that it's completely brick, and after driving on it, my turn signals and steering rack started making funny clicking noises.  It's not very smooth.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Raza on May 18, 2008, 04:57:13 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 03:09:26 PM
On the highway, I'm still averaging somewhere around 30 mpg, but this transmission just doesn't like city driving.

15/30 sounds pretty good to me.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 05:04:39 PM
Quote from: Raza  on May 18, 2008, 04:57:13 PM
15/30 sounds pretty good to me.

The car was doing about 22-23/28-31, but this short driving is killing that.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 18, 2008, 05:23:47 PM
So, you're getting about 15 MPG and doing a 3-4 mile commute each way?

In other words, you're taking two days to burn a gallon of gas to get back and forth from work, making the cost of commuting fuel about $10/week at $4/gal?

I'm sorry, you were complaining about something?
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Raza on May 18, 2008, 05:41:06 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 05:04:39 PM
The car was doing about 22-23/28-31, but this short driving is killing that.

Duh.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Cookie Monster on May 18, 2008, 07:05:48 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 18, 2008, 05:23:47 PM
So, you're getting about 15 MPG and doing a 3-4 mile commute each way?

In other words, you're taking two days to burn a gallon of gas to get back and forth from work, making the cost of commuting fuel about $10/week at $4/gal?

I'm sorry, you were complaining about something?
+1
You're not even spending that much money on gas. Either pay for the gas (not that much) or ride a bike and keep the car for rainy/snowy days.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: CALL_911 on May 18, 2008, 08:48:21 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 18, 2008, 05:23:47 PM
So, you're getting about 15 MPG and doing a 3-4 mile commute each way?

In other words, you're taking two days to burn a gallon of gas to get back and forth from work, making the cost of commuting fuel about $10/week at $4/gal?

I'm sorry, you were complaining about something?

That's what I thought too.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 08:57:43 PM
I'm getting the impression none of you think this is particularly bad. 

On another note then, will this mean I'll have to change the oil or any other fluids more frequently?  I'm using Mobil Clean 5000 in the car right now.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Cookie Monster on May 18, 2008, 09:07:06 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 08:57:43 PM
I'm getting the impression none of you think this is particularly bad. 

On another note then, will this mean I'll have to change the oil or any other fluids more frequently?  I'm using Mobil Clean 5000 in the car right now.
I don't think it's very bad, because as Adam and others listed out, you have an automatic AWD car, which is the least fuel efficient drivetrain, you're driving in the city in dense traffic and you barely get the car warmed up.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 09:14:57 PM
Quote from: thecarnut on May 18, 2008, 09:07:06 PM
I don't think it's very bad, because as Adam and others listed out, you have an automatic AWD car, which is the least fuel efficient drivetrain, you're driving in the city in dense traffic and you barely get the car warmed up.

And you all are absolutely right.  It's not incredibly fuel-efficient, but I'd also like to get more out of each gallon of gas.  This is about as well as my car has been handling winter weather, gaswise.  It just sucks that after filling my tank at $3 a gallon when gas is hovering at about $3.80 around here now, my efficiency has gone way down.  I filled my tank on the 8th and it's right around 3/4 as we speak on a 12.9 gallon tank.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: giant_mtb on May 18, 2008, 09:19:35 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 09:14:57 PM
And you all are absolutely right.  It's not incredibly fuel-efficient, but I'd also like to get more out of each gallon of gas.  This is about as well as my car has been handling winter weather, gaswise.  It just sucks that after filling my tank at $3 a gallon when gas is hovering at about $3.80 around here now, my efficiency has gone way down.  I filled my tank on the 8th and it's right around 3/4 as we speak on a 12.9 gallon tank.

Three and a quarter gallons of gas for 10 days of driving?  That's fantastic.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 18, 2008, 09:20:22 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 09:14:57 PM
And you all are absolutely right.  It's not incredibly fuel-efficient, but I'd also like to get more out of each gallon of gas.  This is about as well as my car has been handling winter weather, gaswise.  It just sucks that after filling my tank at $3 a gallon when gas is hovering at about $3.80 around here now, my efficiency has gone way down.  I filled my tank on the 8th and it's right around 3/4 as we speak on a 12.9 gallon tank.

You filled your tank on the 8th. It's the 18th. You have 3/4 of a tank left.

Seriously, stop this conversation now.

I filled up today. I filled up on the 13th, the 8, the 3rd as well.  About 10-11 gallons each time. And I get about 30 MPG.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Cookie Monster on May 18, 2008, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 18, 2008, 09:19:35 PM
Three and a quarter gallons of gas for 10 days of driving?  That's fantastic.
srsly.
When a tank of gas lasts you over 5 weeks, you have nothing to complain about. That's less than $50 for an entire fillup, assuming you don't have ANYTHING left in your tank. That's $1.25 a day. Two freaking bus tickets will cost more than that a day.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 18, 2008, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 18, 2008, 09:19:35 PM
Three and a quarter gallons of gas for 10 days of driving?  That's fantastic.

I go to work and I buy groceries.  That's about it at the moment.  I don't particularly worry about people stealing my car because it's one of the uglier cars in Oakland (especially since I'm still rocking the steelies covered in surface rust), so it's a relatively low-worry car.  I just can't get over 10-15 mpg in a car this small and supposedly economical.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on May 18, 2008, 09:32:51 PM
It does kinda blow my mind that your mileage is that bad...I get around 20-21 in the city, and I'm generally hustling.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: giant_mtb on May 18, 2008, 09:55:28 PM
Indeed...that sort of mileage does seem inadequate for such a vehicle, even if it is an automatic AWD.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Rupert on May 18, 2008, 10:25:14 PM
It seems low to me, even given the circumstances. I changed my plugs and wires last summer, and my mileage increased four or so miles per gallon. They were all pretty worn out, though.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Laconian on May 18, 2008, 10:57:05 PM
Check the emergency brake. :lol:

The Accord is a pretty efficient car, but even its instantaneous MPGs of the Accord are horrendous (10-15) while accelerating. If 100% of your driving is like this, well, of course it will average out to crap. If "biting the bullet" means getting a more efficient car, you'll be extremely hard pressed to find one that doesn't suck in a pure stop and go existence.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Rupert on May 18, 2008, 11:22:20 PM
Buying a car specifically for a commute is really silly when it's a college kind of job that won't last more than a year or so.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: 280Z Turbo on May 18, 2008, 11:31:53 PM
Quote from: Laconian on May 18, 2008, 10:57:05 PM
Check the emergency brake. :lol:

The Accord is a pretty efficient car, but even its instantaneous MPGs of the Accord are horrendous (10-15) while accelerating. If 100% of your driving is like this, well, of course it will average out to crap. If "biting the bullet" means getting a more efficient car, you'll be extremely hard pressed to find one that doesn't suck in a pure stop and go existence.

Even a Honda CRX is capable of acheiving just 12 mpg. :lol: (on a racetrack)
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 19, 2008, 06:44:32 AM
I'm not replacing my car anytime soon, but I think I'm going to replace the sparkplug wires if that's what might be killing my efficiency.  They might be as old as the engine (14 years and 117k), and the guy who changed my engines said they might need to be replaced soon.  I just had no idea they made that big of a difference.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: The Pirate on May 19, 2008, 12:40:06 PM
Dude, I don't think you're going to get any better than 15 mpg with the way your commute is.  I've no doubt the car could post about 22 mpg if you were doing a 10 to 15 mile stint in light traffic.  But a 4 mile drive in dense traffic is going to give you crappy mileage, no matter what.  You're always on and off the gas and brakes, and thus never have the ability to get to a sustained, constant speed (which is where cars are most efficient).  I get shit mileage when I'm in traffic, too. 


And I probably drive about 55 miles per day, half of it being in traffic like that too.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Byteme on May 19, 2008, 12:49:48 PM
Quote from: The Pirate on May 19, 2008, 12:40:06 PM
Dude, I don't think you're going to get any better than 15 mpg with the way your commute is.  I've no doubt the car could post about 22 mpg if you were doing a 10 to 15 mile stint in light traffic.  But a 4 mile drive in dense traffic is going to give you crappy mileage, no matter what.  You're always on and off the gas and brakes, and thus never have the ability to get to a sustained, constant speed (which is where cars are most efficient).  I get shit mileage when I'm in traffic, too. 


And I probably drive about 55 miles per day, half of it being in traffic like that too.

:hesaid: :hesaid: :hesaid: :hesaid: :hesaid: :hesaid: :hesaid: :hesaid:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: r0tor on May 19, 2008, 04:29:27 PM
my mother's 6 gets 14mpg pretty regularly on her commute which is about 2 miles each way.  Engines run pig rich until they get fully warmed up.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 19, 2008, 07:15:03 PM
That sucks then.

On another note, I am having one of the BMW techs check out my car tomorrow.  He, too, is a Subaru owner.  :lol:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: TBR on May 20, 2008, 12:06:49 PM
I'll ponder that later today when I am pumping my car full of $50+ of gas (while basking in amazement that I actually made it more than a week on one tank).

Seriously, I doubt there is anything wrong.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 20, 2008, 05:06:08 PM
For the cost of a pack of Marlboro Reds, I found out that I need:

-Fuel Filter
-Tensioner/idler pulley
-PCV valve
-Air Filter
-And some transfer case fluid.

Not a bad value if you ask me.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Rupert on May 20, 2008, 09:10:31 PM
I need some of those things, too.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 26, 2008, 10:19:26 PM
I'm still going to fix a lot of those parts I listed, but I just got done with a 130 mile drive back to the 'Burgh.  I drafted some semis, averaged maybe 65-70 mph, and just got 30.2 mpg, so I have about 2/3 tank left, and I unfortunately paid $3.799 for it.

Gas back home might be the most expensive of all of the eastern US at $3.999 right now.  It's terrible.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Rupert on May 26, 2008, 10:23:12 PM
Psh, it's $4.19 here.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: The Pirate on May 26, 2008, 10:37:38 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 26, 2008, 10:19:26 PM
I'm still going to fix a lot of those parts I listed, but I just got done with a 130 mile drive back to the 'Burgh.  I drafted some semis, averaged maybe 65-70 mph, and just got 30.2 mpg, so I have about 2/3 tank left, and I unfortunately paid $3.799 for it.

Gas back home might be the most expensive of all of the eastern US at $3.999 right now.  It's terrible.


Yeah dude, it's ~$4.11 here.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 26, 2008, 10:40:46 PM
Gas prices suck right now.  I'm sorry for you guys.  Prices here are $3.93-97 right now.

I hope the prices go down some after the holiday.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on May 26, 2008, 10:44:26 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 20, 2008, 05:06:08 PM
For the cost of a pack of Marlboro Reds, I found out that I need:

-Fuel Filter
-Tensioner/idler pulley
-PCV valve
-Air Filter
-And some transfer case fluid.

Not a bad value if you ask me.

T-case fluid?  WTF did you put in those Marlboro Reds?
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: The Pirate on May 26, 2008, 10:46:47 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 26, 2008, 10:40:46 PM
Gas prices suck right now.  I'm sorry for you guys.  Prices here are $3.93-97 right now.

I hope the prices go down some after the holiday.


I'd love to be paying less, but I doubt they are going to be dropping anytime soon.  In fact, they keep creeping up, at least here.  NY has some of the highest fuel taxes in the nation.  I don't recall our ranking, but we're in the top 5.  I'd never thought it would cost $60 to fill up an economy car though.  :mask:  My car does have a rather large tank for being a compact though.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on May 26, 2008, 10:46:54 PM
I was listening to a local Consumer Advocate show on the radio and the guy was trying explain to this idiot caller that she has no reason to trade in her car which is 100% paid off with only 40k miles on it for a Hybrid.  Why is it that people think that by going 20-25k in the hole they are going to beat high gas prices?  The fact is that if you have a vehicle that is paid off with lower mileage you are probably better off holding onto it, even if it is a relative gas hog, till it dies and you really need a new car.  Then you could get whatever you want, but for the time being just suck it up and deal with the higher prices.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 26, 2008, 10:47:14 PM
Quote from: R-inge on May 26, 2008, 10:44:26 PM
T-case fluid?  WTF did you put in those Marlboro Reds?

He didn't know exactly what to call it (his Subie is FWD), but the front diff fluid?  I'm at about 3/4 level right now.  What do you call it?
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on May 26, 2008, 10:50:01 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 26, 2008, 10:47:14 PM
He didn't know exactly what to call it (his Subie is FWD), but the front diff fluid?  I'm at about 3/4 level right now.  What do you call it?

Um...gear oil?  :lol:

Automatic Subies have a sealed front diff which takes 75w-90 gear oil, while the trans portion uses something like Dexron (it was dexron on the older cars, they use something else now I think).
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on May 26, 2008, 10:50:44 PM
I guess you could drain and refill your diffs with Mobil 1 gear oil, that might help reduce drivetrain loses marginally.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: The Pirate on May 26, 2008, 10:52:00 PM
Quote from: R-inge on May 26, 2008, 10:46:54 PM
I was listening to a local Consumer Advocate show on the radio and the guy was trying explain to this idiot caller that she has no reason to trade in her car which is 100% paid off with only 40k miles on it for a Hybrid.  Why is it that people think that by going 20-25k in the hole they are going to beat high gas prices?  The fact is that if you have a vehicle that is paid off with lower mileage you are probably better off holding onto it, even if it is a relative gas hog, till it dies and you really need a new car.  Then you could get whatever you want, but for the time being just suck it up and deal with the higher prices.


Good point, and I hear this all the time.  I work with a guy that drives a 2002 (or so) Subaru Legacy wagon.  It's paid off, and he's talking about selling it to get a Honda Fit or something.  It makes perfect sense to take on a $350 car payment (and raise your insurance costs as well) so you can save $100 per month on fuel.  :rolleyes:

Though, I'm tempted to encourage his line of thinking here, so I can pick up his Subie!  I'll tell him it gets crappy mileage because of the AWD, so it's resale value is very poor!  :devil:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 29, 2008, 08:39:41 PM
What the hell is this and does it really work?

My dad sent it to me.

http://www.saveongaseasy.com/
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 29, 2008, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 29, 2008, 08:39:41 PM
What the hell is this and does it really work?

My dad sent it to me.

http://www.saveongaseasy.com/

100% old school bullshit.

That black stuff on your tailpipe isn't gasoline- it's carbon, and it's what happens when you burn hydrocarbons like gasoline.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 29, 2008, 08:46:12 PM
Quote from: The Pirate on May 26, 2008, 10:52:00 PM

Good point, and I hear this all the time.  I work with a guy that drives a 2002 (or so) Subaru Legacy wagon.  It's paid off, and he's talking about selling it to get a Honda Fit or something.  It makes perfect sense to take on a $350 car payment (and raise your insurance costs as well) so you can save $100 per month on fuel.  :rolleyes:

Though, I'm tempted to encourage his line of thinking here, so I can pick up his Subie!  I'll tell him it gets crappy mileage because of the AWD, so it's resale value is very poor!  :devil:

At night, siphon gas out of his car. Or, let some air out of his tires. Or spray paint half of his air cleaner.

Be inventive. I know you can "reduce his gas mileage" sufficiently enough to make him just run out and buy that Fit.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on May 29, 2008, 09:17:06 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 29, 2008, 08:44:17 PM
100% old school bullshit.

That black stuff on your tailpipe isn't gasoline- it's carbon, and it's what happens when you burn hydrocarbons like gasoline.

But what about the product?
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 29, 2008, 09:17:27 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on May 29, 2008, 08:39:41 PM
What the hell is this and does it really work?

My dad sent it to me.

http://www.saveongaseasy.com/

All of the testimonials on the sight involve older cars, many of which are carbureted. I would guess that this stuff is nothing more than a type of detergent that can remove deposits from metering jets and injectors and return them to running like they should. There are already many products that do the exact same thing.

All the talk about "molecule spacing," "esters," and "excited molecules" is old fashioned horse hockey.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: 280Z Turbo on May 29, 2008, 09:33:32 PM
A guy at work believed in the 250 mpg carburetor story. You know, the one where the oil companies hire an assassin to take him out and destroy his design?

I tried to explain to him that:

1.) A normal Otto cycle gasoline engine can't run that lean
2.) Carburetors are primitive technology that don't have the capacity for precise engine management
3.) Somebody else would have invented it by now
4.) Automakers spend millions every year just to get a few extra MPG

...but he would hear none of it.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 29, 2008, 09:39:34 PM
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut10.shtm

Game. Check. Mate.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 29, 2008, 09:40:48 PM
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on May 29, 2008, 09:33:32 PM
A guy at work believed in the 250 mpg carburetor story. You know, the one where the oil companies hire an assassin to take him out and destroy his design?

I tried to explain to him that:

1.) A normal Otto cycle gasoline engine can't run that lean
2.) Carburetors are primitive technology that don't have the capacity for precise engine management
3.) Somebody else would have invented it by now
4.) Automakers spend millions every year just to get a few extra MPG

...but he would hear none of it.

Well, I think carburetors are marvelously complex and ingenious little devices, but otherwise you're 1000% right.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on May 31, 2008, 03:29:05 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 29, 2008, 09:40:48 PM
Well, I think carburetors are marvelously complex and ingenious little devices, but otherwise you're 1000% right.
I have to agree, carbs are mind-blowingly clever.  I also am totally lost around one, even though I'm a driveability tech... :sadsack:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 31, 2008, 03:33:28 PM
Quote from: R-inge on May 31, 2008, 03:29:05 PM
I have to agree, carbs are mind-blowingly clever.  I also am totally lost around one, even though I'm a driveability tech... :sadsack:

I just finished rebuilding the Qijet for the Caddy, and although its something I've done maybe a dozen times, I'm only beginning to really understand how it works, how it transfers from the idle circuit to the partial primary circuits, to the secondary circuit, and all that.

They're like swiss watches- there's nothing new or cutting edge about any of the technology, but it took somebody that was pretty damned clever to get the thing to work in the first place.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on May 31, 2008, 03:42:31 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 31, 2008, 03:33:28 PM
I just finished rebuilding the Qijet for the Caddy, and although its something I've done maybe a dozen times, I'm only beginning to really understand how it works, how it transfers from the idle circuit to the partial primary circuits, to the secondary circuit, and all that.

They're like swiss watches- there's nothing new or cutting edge about any of the technology, but it took somebody that was pretty damned clever to get the thing to work in the first place.

That's a great analogy. :praise:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: GoCougs on May 31, 2008, 04:21:55 PM
My area is finally off winter gas it seems, as now I'm getting 29-30 as opposed to 26-27.

For all the faults I see, the V6 Accord is shockingly easy on gas given its size, power and performance.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: dazzleman on May 31, 2008, 04:36:55 PM
Quote from: Psilos on May 18, 2008, 11:22:20 PM
Buying a car specifically for a commute is really silly when it's a college kind of job that won't last more than a year or so.

I agree.

Jake, you have the 'perfect storm' for bad gas mileage.  A short drive with dense traffic.  The engine isn't as efficient when it's cold, and you're spending the whole ride in stop-and-go traffic, which is the worst for gas mileage.

I don't think you should get another car.  The ride is too short to justify that.  Even though your gas mileage sucks, you're still not using that much since the drive is short.  That's a lot better than shitty gas mileage on a long ride, and not being able to afford a different car, which is the case for some people I know.

If the money you're spending really bothers you, then bite the bullet and take the bus.  Or walk or bike it.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: R-inge on May 26, 2008, 10:46:54 PM
I was listening to a local Consumer Advocate show on the radio and the guy was trying explain to this idiot caller that she has no reason to trade in her car which is 100% paid off with only 40k miles on it for a Hybrid.  Why is it that people think that by going 20-25k in the hole they are going to beat high gas prices?  The fact is that if you have a vehicle that is paid off with lower mileage you are probably better off holding onto it, even if it is a relative gas hog, till it dies and you really need a new car.  Then you could get whatever you want, but for the time being just suck it up and deal with the higher prices.

I'm always amazed with people who fall for this line of thinking as well.  Buying a new car before you need one to save on gas is a pretty stupid idea.

And even when it IS time to buy a new car, buying a new hybrid vs. a comparable gasoline engine isn't always worth it, i.e. a Prius versus a Civic or something, or a $50k+ Tahoe Hybrid vs. a <$40k non-hybrid Tahoe, it takes years for the gas savings to offset the higher purchase price.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 04:43:05 PM
Teuton, I don't think you have anything to worry about.  I have a short commute in crappy traffic, and I only get about 12mpg (my car is rated 18/28).  The cold engine and bad traffic kill your gas mileage, there's nothing you can do about it other than ride your bike to work.  But the flip side is, because of our short commutes we don't spend much on gas, so don't worry about it.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 31, 2008, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 04:40:44 PM
I'm always amazed with people who fall for this line of thinking as well.  Buying a new care before you need one to save on gas is a pretty stupid idea.

And even when it IS time to buy a new car, buying a new hybrid vs. a comparable gasoline engine isn't always worth it, i.e. a Prius versus a Civic or something, or a $50k+ Tahoe Hybrid vs. a <$40k non-hybrid Tahoe, it takes years for the gas savings to offset the higher purchase price.

Image has always played a far more important role in car marketting than any practical concerns.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 05:49:30 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 31, 2008, 04:43:29 PM
Image has always played a far more important role in car marketting than any practical concerns.

Yes, I'm very aware of that.

I think it's funny that all these rich people (mostly women) drive a Prius and have this holier than thou attitude about how "green" they are.  Yet, how many of these people were driving Tercels before the Prius came out?  They drive them because they like the "green" image, not because they actually give a shit about the environment.  I bet most of these people wouldn't be caught dead driving a Carolla.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 31, 2008, 06:09:27 PM
Quote from: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 05:49:30 PM
Yes, I'm very aware of that.

I think it's funny that all these rich people (mostly women) drive a Prius and have this holier than thou attitude about how "green" they are.  Yet, how many of these people were driving Tercels before the Prius came out?  They drive them because they like the "green" image, not because they actually give a shit about the environment.  I bet most of these people wouldn't be caught dead driving a Carolla.

They're also likely the ones that will circle the mall parking lot 42 times looking for a close spot rather than walk from the back.

Its also why all the hybrids for sale are only avaialable in the shittiest muted colors avaialable since the mid '70s.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 07:31:16 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 31, 2008, 06:09:27 PM
They're also likely the ones that will circle the mall parking lot 42 times looking for a close spot rather than walk from the back.

Its also why all the hybrids for sale are only avaialable in the shittiest muted colors avaialable since the mid '70s.

Do you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm?  Larry David's wife on that show is the perfect stereotypical rich California woman who drives a Prius.

She's filthy rich, drives a prius, buys sandpaper-like "green" toilet paper, yet they live in alike a 10,000 square foot house ... I'm sure it doesn't cost much to air condition that place.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: dazzleman on May 31, 2008, 08:34:40 PM
Quote from: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 07:31:16 PM
Do you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm?  Larry David's wife on that show is the perfect stereotypical rich California woman who drives a Prius.

She's filthy rich, drives a prius, buys sandpaper-like "green" toilet paper, yet they live in alike a 10,000 square foot house ... I'm sure it doesn't cost much to air condition that place.

That's how most of those people are.  Totally hypocritical, and just laughable.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Cookie Monster on May 31, 2008, 09:49:04 PM
Do you guys think it's stupid to trade in an MDX for $20k for a $20k TSX with one third the miles and gets about 12 MPG (mixed) more?
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on May 31, 2008, 10:22:21 PM
Quote from: thecarnut on May 31, 2008, 09:49:04 PM
Do you guys think it's stupid to trade in an MDX for $20k for a $20k TSX with one third the miles and gets about 12 MPG (mixed) more?

Assuming equal value, I don't think that would be silly.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 10:37:54 PM
Quote from: thecarnut on May 31, 2008, 09:49:04 PM
Do you guys think it's stupid to trade in an MDX for $20k for a $20k TSX with one third the miles and gets about 12 MPG (mixed) more?

Not necessarily, depends on the situation and the needs of the person considering it.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Cookie Monster on May 31, 2008, 10:46:38 PM
Quote from: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 10:37:54 PM
Not necessarily, depends on the situation and the needs of the person considering it.
My dad uses it to commute to work every day, and he doesn't take anyone else... with gas well over $4.50 for premium, I'm trying to push him into something smaller that gets better MPG's.

Regular here is $4.48 or so. :mask:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Lebowski on June 01, 2008, 07:44:34 AM
Quote from: thecarnut on May 31, 2008, 10:46:38 PM
My dad uses it to commute to work every day, and he doesn't take anyone else... with gas well over $4.50 for premium, I'm trying to push him into something smaller that gets better MPG's.

Regular here is $4.48 or so. :mask:

Sounds like it makes sense in his case, if he doesn't need the space of an SUV.

Why is this thread a sticky?
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: sportyaccordy on June 01, 2008, 09:29:35 AM
Get a FWD car man...

I get better mileage flooring it all the time. (17mpg is my worst)
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Danish on June 06, 2008, 09:35:20 PM
Quote from: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 05:49:30 PM
I bet most of these people wouldn't be caught dead driving a Carolla.

Hey hey, no need to knock the almighty Corolla(http://img308.imageshack.us/img308/9347/bowdown8yi1ut.gif)
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Rupert on June 06, 2008, 09:43:58 PM
Quote from: Lebowski on May 31, 2008, 05:49:30 PM
Yes, I'm very aware of that.

I think it's funny that all these rich people (mostly women) drive a Prius and have this holier than thou attitude about how "green" they are.  Yet, how many of these people were driving Tercels before the Prius came out?  They drive them because they like the "green" image, not because they actually give a shit about the environment.  I bet most of these people wouldn't be caught dead driving a Carolla.

I know a few Prius owners, and none of them have a holier than thou greenie attitude.  :huh:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Laconian on June 07, 2008, 12:34:42 PM
Most of the Prius owners I know are buying as a hedge against gas prices. Their smugness comes from knowing that they only have to fill up once every two weeks, not from being holier than thou. :lol:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on June 10, 2008, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: Laconian on June 07, 2008, 12:34:42 PM
Most of the Prius owners I know are buying as a hedge against gas prices. Their smugness comes from knowing that they only have to fill up once every two weeks, not from being holier than thou. :lol:

Yeah too bad they paid too much for that priviledge.  They get to own their car for several years to make it back, and hopefully in that time their powertrain doesn't have issues... :lol:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Lebowski on June 10, 2008, 07:10:41 PM
Quote from: Laconian on June 07, 2008, 12:34:42 PM
Most of the Prius owners I know are buying as a hedge against gas prices. Their smugness comes from knowing that they only have to fill up once every two weeks, not from being holier than thou. :lol:

Well their smugness should be tempered by their inability to run a simple DCF analysis indicating they'll never make back the extra cash they spent for a Prius vs. a similar sized, similarly equipped non-hybrid car.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Rich on June 10, 2008, 09:30:02 PM
What cars compare best to the Prius's interior volume?

From my memory I thought it was as big as the midsizers before they got huge (old accord, old malibu, ect...)  If it is, then the 21k price is pretty competitive.

Even still, most "compacts" are getting to be about 17k when typically equipped... not far off the 21k for a base Prius, or 23k for the Touring model.

I'm not sure if hybrids have equivalent resale percentages of non hybrids but the extra money to buy a Pruis can probably be recovered at resale.  The cost of gas when buying the non hybrid is not recoverable.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Laconian on June 10, 2008, 10:52:32 PM
Quote from: R-inge on June 10, 2008, 06:38:45 PM
Yeah too bad they paid too much for that priviledge.  They get to own their car for several years to make it back, and hopefully in that time their powertrain doesn't have issues... :lol:
The first generation Prius batteries have been lasting much longer than expected.

My mom wants to get a Prius now, the one with leather trim, because:
* it's economical, but not perceived as cheap (real estate clients are a shallow, emotional bunch I guess)
* the big hatch can fit her real estate shit as well as the Tribute can, she brought her signs to the dealer to test it out
* it actually exists, whereas the Ford Escape hybrid might as well be vapor, given the waiting list
* good MPGs without the pump penalty of diesel

I'm not the Prius' biggest fan but I do agree with her logic. Good fuel economy in the US is like manual transmissions: it's available on the cheap cars and the expensive cars, but not on many cars in between.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on June 11, 2008, 06:07:20 PM
Quote from: HotRodPilot on June 10, 2008, 09:30:02 PM
What cars compare best to the Prius's interior volume?

From my memory I thought it was as big as the midsizers before they got huge (old accord, old malibu, ect...)  If it is, then the 21k price is pretty competitive.

Even still, most "compacts" are getting to be about 17k when typically equipped... not far off the 21k for a base Prius, or 23k for the Touring model.

I'm not sure if hybrids have equivalent resale percentages of non hybrids but the extra money to buy a Pruis can probably be recovered at resale.  The cost of gas when buying the non hybrid is not recoverable.

If you already own a vehicle, then the cost of depreciation on your current vehicle, added to the extra interest you will pay on a higher loan for this vehicle which by default requires more money than say a Corolla since that's a common comparison, added to the cost of depreciation of the new Prius you own will all add up to such an extent that it takes years of fuel savings to recoup.  If everyone is so worried about out of pocket expense, then why is it that they don't seem to care about a higher car payment?  It makes no sense.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Rich on June 11, 2008, 06:29:36 PM
Quote from: R-inge on June 11, 2008, 06:07:20 PM
If you already own a vehicle, then the cost of depreciation on your current vehicle, added to the extra interest you will pay on a higher loan for this vehicle which by default requires more money than say a Corolla since that's a common comparison, added to the cost of depreciation of the new Prius you own will all add up to such an extent that it takes years of fuel savings to recoup.  If everyone is so worried about out of pocket expense, then why is it that they don't seem to care about a higher car payment?  It makes no sense.

I was referring to someone that is looking to buy a new car anyway, who isn't buying a new car because of the cost of gas....

Not everyone wants to hang onto a car forever :lol:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on June 12, 2008, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: HotRodPilot on June 11, 2008, 06:29:36 PM
I was referring to someone that is looking to buy a new car anyway, who isn't buying a new car because of the cost of gas....

Not everyone wants to hang onto a car forever :lol:

Haha too true...
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: r0tor on June 13, 2008, 05:43:04 AM
help, my gas mileage i3t da sux0r!

Last time I got gas I dumped a can of BG 44K fuel system/engine cleaner and I've been beating the piss out of my car ever since to get flow through the secondary and tertiary ports and injectors.

any ideas on my poor gas mileage?  :lol:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on June 13, 2008, 07:32:56 AM
Quote from: r0tor on June 13, 2008, 05:43:04 AM
help, my gas mileage i3t da sux0r!

Last time I got gas I dumped a can of BG 44K fuel system/engine cleaner and I've been beating the piss out of my car ever since to get flow through the secondary and tertiary ports and injectors.

any ideas on my poor gas mileage?  :lol:
lmao...try drafting more semis on the way to work.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: r0tor on June 13, 2008, 08:52:43 AM
yea, maybe drafting would help my unexplainable gas mileage.  Throttle response while cruising at 70mph in 3rd gear at 7ooo rpms seems downright remarkable... so i can't imagine there being an engine problem
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on June 13, 2008, 09:25:35 AM
Quote from: r0tor on June 13, 2008, 08:52:43 AM
yea, maybe drafting would help my unexplainable gas mileage.  Throttle response while cruising at 70mph in 3rd gear at 7ooo rpms seems downright remarkable... so i can't imagine there being an engine problem

Try more WOT acceleration all the way to redline while you're at it.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: r0tor on June 13, 2008, 09:43:51 AM
that would decrease the restriction in the air intake... hmmm
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: 280Z Turbo on June 13, 2008, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: r0tor on June 13, 2008, 05:43:04 AM
help, my gas mileage i3t da sux0r!

Last time I got gas I dumped a can of BG 44K fuel system/engine cleaner and I've been beating the piss out of my car ever since to get flow through the secondary and tertiary ports and injectors.

any ideas on my poor gas mileage?  :lol:

You are putting in the wrong fuel.

Your car is powered by 2 hamster wheels. It needs pellets and water.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on June 13, 2008, 11:12:15 PM
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 13, 2008, 06:41:30 PM
You are putting in the wrong fuel.

Your car is powered by 2 hamster wheels. It needs pellets and water.

:lol:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: r0tor on June 14, 2008, 11:32:32 AM
i'm going green and using soy pellets  :praise:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: hotrodalex on June 14, 2008, 02:49:22 PM
Quote from: r0tor on June 14, 2008, 11:32:32 AM
i'm going green and using soy pellets  :praise:

Beware, hamsters are known to go on strike when fed soy products.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: 280Z Turbo on June 14, 2008, 08:06:17 PM
Quote from: R-inge on June 13, 2008, 11:12:15 PM
:lol:

That's not funny. My own joke just offended me. :(

I just started doing track days in an RX-7, so I've developed a soft spot for that noisy little hamster cage called a 12A. On the other hand, it also gives me the right to make fun of it even more. :lol:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: 2o6 on June 14, 2008, 08:14:45 PM
Quote from: The Pirate on May 26, 2008, 10:52:00 PM

Good point, and I hear this all the time.  I work with a guy that drives a 2002 (or so) Subaru Legacy wagon.  It's paid off, and he's talking about selling it to get a Honda Fit or something.  It makes perfect sense to take on a $350 car payment (and raise your insurance costs as well) so you can save $100 per month on fuel.  :rolleyes:

Though, I'm tempted to encourage his line of thinking here, so I can pick up his Subie!  I'll tell him it gets crappy mileage because of the AWD, so it's resale value is very poor!  :devil:


If you were to pay for it in outright cash, OK. But I don't think an '02 Legacy is worth that much.



Also, for a little car, the Fit's MPG's isn't that great. Only 27.....but the Civic gets almost identical milage.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: The Pirate on June 14, 2008, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: 2o6 on June 14, 2008, 08:14:45 PM

If you were to pay for it in outright cash, OK. But I don't think an '02 Legacy is worth that much.



Also, for a little car, the Fit's MPG's isn't that great. Only 27.....but the Civic gets almost identical milage.

Fit is rated 27 mpg in the city and 34 mpg highway, IIRC.  That's an average of 30 mpg, which is an improvement over the Legacy in question. 


And I don't understand what you are saying about the Legacy wagon.  Hypothetically, if I bought it for less than book value and paid cash (or financed for 2 years) it would be a good purchase.  And, KBB puts the value of this particular car at $8500.  That's a lot of money for a car (to me), and I couldn't exactly pay cash for that amount tomorrow. 
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: r0tor on June 17, 2008, 04:14:56 PM
i did about another 10 miles today of freeway traveling at 75mph in 3rd gear at 7,5oo rpms.... engine wailing... glorious sounds while going through underpasses... neck snapping throttle response...

and i filled up my tank on the way home and still averaged 17.5 mpg this tank  :partyon:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Danish on June 18, 2008, 09:26:16 PM
Moved home from Berkeley this past weekend. Car was (literally) full of stuff, A/C on most of the way, driving at 80 mph - and I still got 36 mpg for the trip!
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on August 04, 2008, 07:26:45 PM
So, I've been driving around at WOT everywhere for the last month, and my fuel economy blows a whole legion of chimp.  Any ideas?
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: the Teuton on August 04, 2008, 07:28:36 PM
Quote from: R-inge on August 04, 2008, 07:26:45 PM
So, I've been driving around at WOT everywhere for the last month, and my fuel economy blows a whole legion of chimp.  Any ideas?

I don't know.  I just averaged 17 mpg on my last go-around.  I thought that was great for how I've been driving.
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Danish on August 04, 2008, 07:34:23 PM
Quote from: R-inge on August 04, 2008, 07:26:45 PM
So, I've been driving around at WOT everywhere for the last month, and my fuel economy blows a whole legion of chimp.  Any ideas?

You need one of these:

(http://www.v6mustangstuff.com/images/tornado.jpg)



http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/shop_brands/tornado.html
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: S204STi on August 05, 2008, 06:06:04 PM
Quote from: Danish on August 04, 2008, 07:34:23 PM
You need one of these:

(http://www.v6mustangstuff.com/images/tornado.jpg)



http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/shop_brands/tornado.html

Sweet, I just ordered 5 on your recommendation. :praise:
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Danish on August 05, 2008, 06:52:42 PM
Quote from: R-inge on August 05, 2008, 06:06:04 PM
Sweet, I just ordered 5 on your recommendation. :praise:

NO! That much fuel economy is bad! America needs its dependence on foreign oil!
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: Secret Chimp on December 04, 2014, 10:17:34 PM
made you look
Title: Re: My gas mileage sucks
Post by: AutobahnSHO on December 05, 2014, 05:52:58 AM
LOL you did

http://news.yahoo.com/why-gas-below-2-parts-us-not-others-224233845.html (http://news.yahoo.com/why-gas-below-2-parts-us-not-others-224233845.html)