2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars

Started by 2o6, January 16, 2017, 09:08:22 AM

Raza

Quote from: giant_mtb on January 24, 2017, 11:20:04 AM
A Suburban is huge.  An Excursion is huge.  Edge is not even close to huge.

Everything is huge. 
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

Raza

Quote from: MrH on January 24, 2017, 11:22:20 AM
Yeah.  The 4Runner is quite a bit bigger than an Edge.  Hell, half ton trucks are the best sellers here and they're waaaaaay bigger than an Edge.

4Runner is a house.  It's enormous.  It's essentially a landgoing battleship.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

AutobahnSHO

2017 4runner
190-191″ L x 76″ W x 72″ H


2017 Odyssey
203″ L x 79″ W x 68″ H
Will


RomanChariot

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 25, 2017, 05:12:08 AM
2017 4runner
190-191″ L x 76″ W x 72″ H


2017 Odyssey
203″ L x 79″ W x 68″ H


2017 Ford Edge 188"L x 76"W x 69"H

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: RomanChariot on January 25, 2017, 10:17:34 AM
2017 Ford Edge 188"L x 76"W x 69"H

I did NOT realize those are so large. They do a good job of appearing smaller.
Will

2o6

2007 Toyota Yaris (4-speed auto) Purchased July 2016, sold September 2016


Obviously, I owned two of these before this one but, my driving impressions changed after I bought the Sonic




+ Good economy

+ interior plastics feel good quality and well assembled

+ I actually like the center mounted gauge cluster

+ easy to maneuver and park

+ lots of space inside for a small car

+ good sound system

+ 1.5L is tractable with good low down torque for it's size

+ ride is good

- it's too damn slow

- 4 gears don't seem like enough, despite it being OK for the Corolla

- handling is clumsy

- steering feel and response is bad




RomanChariot

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 25, 2017, 02:52:48 PM
I did NOT realize those are so large. They do a good job of appearing smaller.

The latest 4Runner is over 15" longer and 9" wider than the original from the '80s. It is also 5" longer but about 3" narrower than the K5 Blazer from the '80s.

MrH

Quote from: Raza  on January 25, 2017, 03:29:10 AM
4Runner is a house.  It's enormous.  It's essentially a landgoing battleship.


:lol:

Honestly, for an SUV, it's absolutely perfect in size for me. Third row in a pinch, good room in the second row. Front seats don't feel like they're a mile apart like in a Suburban.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

Vinsanity

Quote from: 2o6 on January 17, 2017, 12:01:02 AM
2004 Cadillac CTS 3.6L


+ I still like this design a lot. It still has held up well, and I think edgier designs are the way to go for luxury cars.

+ The steering is both Cadillac familiar, but still precise.

+ GM really does well with automatic transmissions, this car shifts smoothly and confidently.

+ It's interesting how the 3.6L "HIGH FEATURE" engine changes character depending on what it's in or which variant is used. In the FWD applications, like the Traverse and other LAMBDA crossovers, it feels borderline inappropriate in regards to how late the power/torque comes in the car. In this car, partially because of gearing and weight, the 3.6L feels a lot more free and easier. I prefer it to most BMW I6 cars.

+ The leather has a distinct GM Cadillac smell that channels my childhood.

+ Ride was compliant, but handling was still very good. It rode better than a 3 series, and felt more comfortable than a C-class, without being wafty and insubstantial like a Lexus ES.

+ automatic shifter has great weight and good feel

- Although fit and finish was better than anything GM was making at the time (Step inside an 04 Cavalier or any of the GM N-body cars), material quality was honestly about on the same level as a VW Jetta

- The 2.8L and whatever other engine that isn't the 3.6L is refried garbage

- Some of the interior design choices are stupid (THERE ARE A LOT OF BUTTONS)

- Some of the controls are kind of cryptic (Sunroof control)

- This car held up far worse than practically any other small luxury car of the day, except maybe the X-type. X-types are garbage.

hmm thought I remember you saying the car was garbage  ;)

2o6

Quote from: Vinsanity on January 25, 2017, 08:06:32 PM
hmm thought I remember you saying the car was garbage  ;)



That particular example had been beat. Terrible water leak, rust issues

Vinsanity

Quote from: 2o6 on January 25, 2017, 08:51:50 PM


That particular example had been beat. Terrible water leak, rust issues
Yeah just busting your chops, figured yours was beat.

Did you have to put a lot of money into it to make it flippable?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


2o6




2008 Honda Fit - Purchased Jan 2017, Sold ????



+ Excellent use of space

+ Man this 1.5L is really rev happy. The 1.5L in the Yaris has a sweeter midrange and stronger low end torque and feels more balanced, but the 1.5L in the Fit more fun to wring out

+ this shifter/clutch is great! It's super fun and easy to fling in gear. It's different than the germanic heaviness of the clutch/shifter/steering of my Sonic.

+ Handling is super precise. Transitional speed and stability bests a lot of big cars

+ super versatile seats



- The gearing is too damn short. 5th feels like 3rd in my Sonic, and more like 4th in the manual Yarises I had. At 70MPH, the Fit is at 3700RPM. At 70MPH, the Sonic is at 2200RPM.

- Although the car is rev happy and the gearing makes it feel like youre really doing something, in real life, the car is actually very slow. Sonic can out walk this car.

- Above 70MPH it's not as stable as it could be (Sonic rides like a big car)

- this steering wheel is actually kind of large. Also the range of adjustment is lacking.

- NO AUX INPUT. This seems silly to complain about, but GM had this standard on most cars in 2006, and in this Honda it's only available on the Fit Sport.



The Sonic and Fit are two different cars. They're both fun, but the Sonic is more comfortable.

2o6

2007 Mazda 6 * not sure what model grade is

Purchased, early Dec 2016. Sold, Early Feb 2017.


2.3L, 5AT




+ The 4 cylinder plus the gearing of the five speed auto feels faster and more responsive than the 4cyl Accord or 4cyl Camry.

+ The seats are super comfy

+ Overall suspension tuning seems more responsive than the Camry.

- The Accord and Camry feel better made in nearly every way. Especially the Accord.

- The Accord and Camry have more room.

- The steering is merely, OK

- I see why this car was a fleet queen





MrH

Quote from: 2o6 on January 29, 2017, 11:45:38 AM



2008 Honda Fit - Purchased Jan 2017, Sold ????



+ Excellent use of space

+ Man this 1.5L is really rev happy. The 1.5L in the Yaris has a sweeter midrange and stronger low end torque and feels more balanced, but the 1.5L in the Fit more fun to wring out

+ this shifter/clutch is great! It's super fun and easy to fling in gear. It's different than the germanic heaviness of the clutch/shifter/steering of my Sonic.

+ Handling is super precise. Transitional speed and stability bests a lot of big cars

+ super versatile seats



- The gearing is too damn short. 5th feels like 3rd in my Sonic, and more like 4th in the manual Yarises I had. At 70MPH, the Fit is at 3700RPM. At 70MPH, the Sonic is at 2200RPM.

- Although the car is rev happy and the gearing makes it feel like youre really doing something, in real life, the car is actually very slow. Sonic can out walk this car.

- Above 70MPH it's not as stable as it could be (Sonic rides like a big car)

- this steering wheel is actually kind of large. Also the range of adjustment is lacking.

- NO AUX INPUT. This seems silly to complain about, but GM had this standard on most cars in 2006, and in this Honda it's only available on the Fit Sport.



The Sonic and Fit are two different cars. They're both fun, but the Sonic is more comfortable.

Can't wait to pick it up for $800 :lol:
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

giant_mtb

Quote from: 2o6 on February 07, 2017, 07:59:28 AM


Those have aged really well. That's a good looking car. ...unlike the newer ones (IMO).

93JC

Quote from: 2o6 on February 07, 2017, 07:59:28 AM
2007 Mazda 6

[...]

- I see why this car was a fleet queen

It was? Don't think I've ever seen one in a rental fleet. The generation after that one, yeah, but not the first gen. 6.

Xer0

Quote from: giant_mtb on February 07, 2017, 09:46:07 AM
Those have aged really well. That's a good looking car. ...unlike the newer ones (IMO).

It needs the dealer installed body kit, imo, to really look its best.  Without it looks kinda wimpy.

2o6

Quote from: 93JC on February 07, 2017, 01:09:31 PM
It was? Don't think I've ever seen one in a rental fleet. The generation after that one, yeah, but not the first gen. 6.


Yep. Big fleet Queen in the US

ifcar

Quote from: 93JC on February 07, 2017, 01:09:31 PM
It was? Don't think I've ever seen one in a rental fleet. The generation after that one, yeah, but not the first gen. 6.

The basic ones seemed to fill fleets nicely, even in the first generation. Maybe it was just that fleet operators couldn't kick their habit of buying 626s.

93JC

Quote from: 2o6 on February 07, 2017, 02:08:13 PM

Yep. Big fleet Queen in the US

Huh.

Ten years ago the big mid-size fleet queens here were "domestic": Chevy Malibu, the then-new Dodge Avenger and Chrysler Sebring, and to a lesser extent the Ford Fusion. It was around this time that I started seeing Camrys and Altimas hitting the rental fleets. "The new 'Bu" is still a fleet queen here, and I haven't seen a privately-owned Impala in many, many years, but the Camry and Altima picked up the business Chrysler used to get. I don't see Mazda 6es in rental fleets; I don't see Mazda 6es at all... Very unpopular car, sadly.

veeman

I think if Mazda did what Hyundai/Kia started doing in the U.S. two decades ago - offering a 10 year/100,000 mile power train warranty and 5 year/60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty - they wouldn't be such a minor niche brand here.  They make better cars than Hyundai/Kia. 

ifcar

Quote from: veeman on February 07, 2017, 10:47:50 PM
I think if Mazda did what Hyundai/Kia started doing in the U.S. two decades ago - offering a 10 year/100,000 mile power train warranty and 5 year/60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty - they wouldn't be such a minor niche brand here.  They make better cars than Hyundai/Kia. 

Mazda does make niche cars compared to Hyundai/Kia, though. Relatively expensive, relatively premium-feeling, and sporty rather than roomy or comfortable. Nicer to drive, sure, but it's easy to see why they're lower-volume.

2o6

2008 Saturn VUE XE (2.4L, 4AT)



Purchased Late September 2016, sold Early November 2016

+ Easy to drive. Car is deceptively maneuverable.

+ Good ride

+ Big cargo area (some of these modern SUV's have really small cargo areas for some reason)

+ Handsome looking

+ transmission is butter smooth

- It is so damn slow. It's probably slower than the Automatic Yaris I had. The 2.4 in theory produces ~170HP, but I have no clue where they are. When paired to the 4AT, it's just a slow POS, and even worse when full of people. I took it apple picking with friends, and freeway jaunts were full of just the car revving the piss out of that 2.4L to get anywhere. The 2.4L isn't known for low down torque, and it's not the nicest to really wring out, either.

- These seats are uncomfortable. They're very hard, and the seat bottoms are very short.

- Not very memorable. It's like it was designed to be a rental car.

- Standard GM AcDelco parts bin crapola stereo.


2o6





2010 Dodge Journey SXT (3.5L, FWD, 6AT, 5-passenger) (Purchased April 2017, Sold ???)


+ I still think it's a handsome looking vehicle, even if a bit bland. Lines are clean, and it's pleasant to look at.

+ Chrysler stereos are generally good (no U-connect in my car, however), and it's got good quality, if a bit biased on the low and midrange ends.

+ loads of cubby holes, two in the rear floorboards, the little drink chiller above the glovebox is nifty.

+ loads of power outlets, including a 110v standard house plug outlet

+ Seats are comfortable, if a bit unsupportive

+ good amount of interior room for 5-passengers.

+ (Ive been in a 7-seat model) although the 3rd row in these cars is obviously tight - but it's not totally useless like the Highlander or Outlander


- 3.5L is merely adequate. I know the 3.6L Pentastar is a better engine and has wayy more power and economy, but I think this was the swan song for the 3.5L SOHC unit that initially saw service in the '93 Intrepid

- This car probably barely moves with the 2.4L 4cyl

- transmission is smooth, but doesn't like downshifting.

- motor is smooth, but doesn't really like revving

- every plastic you are meant to touch feels like shit. The worst offender being the "leather wrapped" steering wheel

- the automatic transmission gear selector is positioned in a weird place, super close to your hip, and it feels awkward to use and like the gearstick is in the wrong place at all times

- Ride is squishy and unresolved

- handling and steering is kind of poor

- fuel economy sucks for the level of performance you get. A 2010 CRV offers about 85% of the space, but with better performance and economy.



I can see why you'd be lured into a pre FCA car with steep discounts. But at list price? Hell no.

2o6




2008 Scion xD, (1.8L 4AT)

Purchased Late July 2017, Sold Early August 2017

+ It's super roomy for being a small car

+ the 4AT is acceptable for what it is

+ Roadholding and freeway manners are wayyy better than the Yaris it's based upon

- I'm not sure I drove this car enough to get a good impression, I had it for literally 6 days and about ~100 miles

- The 1ZZ (Corolla's old 1.8) and that 4AT seem like a more robust combo, with more midrange and tractability.

2o6




2006 Toyota Corolla - Purchased in August 2017, sold ???



+ That 1.8L and 4AT combo is nowhere near as bad as it sounds. Although the car is not fast, I never felt as if the car was too slow or out of it's depth.

+ It has good interior room, and the space is managed well.

+ Interior and plastics quality are pretty good for the year and time period it was made

+ Fuel economy is superb


- I feel like Fuel economy is good because the car forces you to drive slower because it's s dynamically bad. The shocks are soft. The steering is vague with little feel. It feels as secure at 65MPH as my Sonic feels at 90MPH.

- God, this car is so outrageously dull. Any sort of design flair that could have been put on the inside or outside was forgone for something much more inoffensive.

- This is a Corolla LE; the topmost trim. This car has keyless entry, power locks, power windows, cruise control, etc. The works. Yet curiously, this car doesn't have ABS. I checked Toyota's spec sheet; ABS was still an option on all the trims. WHY.

- The brakes are so progressive, it's actually kind of hard to lock the wheels, not sure if this is good or bad.

- I've complained about the footwells being too shallow on the Vibe/Matrix- but the Corolla is even worse. The steering column doesn't telescope and the footwell is EVEN SHALLOWER than the Vibe/Matrix. The driving position is unnatural.

93JC

Quote from: 2o6 on August 23, 2017, 01:50:09 PM
+ It has good interior room, and the space is managed well.

[...]

- I've complained about the footwells being too shallow on the Vibe/Matrix- but the Corolla is even worse. The steering column doesn't telescope and the footwell is EVEN SHALLOWER than the Vibe/Matrix. The driving position is unnatural.

Contradictory, no? I test-drove almost every compact car on the market 2008-2009 when I was shopping for my car but I didn't even bother going to Toyota: I had seat time in a Corolla at the local auto show and the uncomfortable seating position behind the wheel immediately eliminated the car from consideration. I thought they, and the Matrix/Vibe, were horrendously uncomfortable thus not making very good use of the available interior room at all.

2o6

Quote from: 93JC on August 23, 2017, 03:38:09 PM
Contradictory, no? I test-drove almost every compact car on the market 2008-2009 when I was shopping for my car but I didn't even bother going to Toyota: I had seat time in a Corolla at the local auto show and the uncomfortable seating position behind the wheel immediately eliminated the car from consideration. I thought they, and the Matrix/Vibe, were horrendously uncomfortable thus not making very good use of the available interior room at all.


The legroom is fine, but the pedal placement and steering wheel placement (particularly the too short column) is the worst.

CaminoRacer

I complained about that when I rented one last week. Especially since I'm used the wheel being very close to me in my car.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV