The Official MX-5 Miata Thread

Started by Onslaught, September 09, 2010, 01:35:50 PM

Laconian

Quote from: MX793 on June 04, 2020, 02:04:37 PM
Was it lifter tick or injector noise?  DI motors have a fair bit of clatter from the injectors.

Edit:  do recent Miatas even have hydraulic lifters?  IIRC, the NCs had solid lifters.  I would assume NDs retained that.  NAs and NBs had hydraulic lifters.

Oh, maybe it's injector noise. My NA made a racket from the hydraulic lifters when started cold.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

shp4man

There's a debate between NC owners about oil weights (like almost every other car and bike).  0-20 supposedly gets to the valvetrain faster on cold start, 5-20 provides better lubrication. It never ends.

Laconian

Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

AutobahnSHO

Definitely drive all your cars at least 20min every week!!!   It's bad to sit not moving.

Will

AutobahnSHO

BTW it's my tires.   :mask:  :confused:  :nutty:  :huh:  :rolleyes:  :lol:  :rage:  :evildude:  :lockedup:  :thumbsup:  :hammerhead:  :facepalm:

It was high 80s yesterday, finally hit that one traffic light with two left turn lanes green (first time ever!) and was only doing about 25mph in the outside (right) turn lane, squealing the entire time.
Will

Laconian

Good news and bad news.

Bad news is that you'll be out some money.
Good news is that fresh new tires will enjoyment of your car.

Did you spend your 'rona stimulus check? This would be stimulatin'.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: Laconian on June 05, 2020, 10:53:27 AM
Good news and bad news.

Bad news is that you'll be out some money.
Good news is that fresh new tires will enjoyment of your car.

Did you spend your 'rona stimulus check? This would be stimulatin'.

Fresh tires will definitely enjoyment of your car. :lol:

2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

giant_mtb

Shitty tires on a Miata is like putting mud terrains on a funny car.

Laconian

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on June 05, 2020, 11:04:59 AM
Fresh tires will definitely enjoyment of your car. :lol:

Aw fuck off, I'm typing in a remote desktop connection, everything's all laggy :lol:
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: Laconian on June 05, 2020, 11:48:10 AM
Aw fuck off, I'm typing in a remote desktop connection, everything's all laggy :lol:

I freaking hate remote desktops
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

shp4man

Crappy tires make noise. In a Miata, this is a very real issue.

CaminoRacer

Get some BFG sport comp 2 all seasons. Seems like a good match and they are decently cheap
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Eye of the Tiger

Get some Ohtsu FP7000s. Cheap and cheap. :lol:
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

SJ_GTI

If you are looking at new tires I have been happy with the continentals I got for my Z3. I've only had them in the wet a couple times but I was genuinely surprised how much trip they had. I think MX recommended them IIRC.

MX793

Quote from: SJ_GTI on June 05, 2020, 06:11:01 PM
If you are looking at new tires I have been happy with the continentals I got for my Z3. I've only had them in the wet a couple times but I was genuinely surprised how much trip they had. I think MX recommended them IIRC.

If they were the Extreme Contact Sports, those are fantastic in all conditions (except snow and sub-freezing).  A little pricey (though not as bad as a comparable Michelin).  Those were what I was running in that rainy auto-x video.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Speed_Racer

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 05, 2020, 12:36:17 PM
Get some BFG sport comp 2 all seasons. Seems like a good match and they are decently cheap

I had a set of those on my Kizashi and they were super grippy but they got LOUD as they wore down. I replaced them early - I couldn't handle it at hwy speeds

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Speed_Racer on June 05, 2020, 07:18:47 PM
I had a set of those on my Kizashi and they were super grippy but they got LOUD as they wore down. I replaced them early - I couldn't handle it at hwy speeds

Yeah I think they're getting loud on my Mazda6. Not nearly as loud as the Bridgestone RE-71Rs on the El Camino though :lol:
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

AutobahnSHO

So they still have plenty of tread, Rich was of opinion (and I agree) that getting them too sticky makes hitting the limit dangerous... I love love love driving the car hard. And still staying mostly just a bit over the speed limit.

I'm on stock rims so I'll have to look at options. But first move to Georgia...
Will

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 05, 2020, 08:31:14 PM
So they still have plenty of tread, Rich was of opinion (and I agree) that getting them too sticky makes hitting the limit dangerous... I love love love driving the car hard. And still staying mostly just a bit over the speed limit.

I'm on stock rims so I'll have to look at options. But first move to Georgia...

Wait now, you're moving all the way to GA? I thought you just left there for DC.  :lol:
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on June 05, 2020, 08:55:54 PM
Wait now, you're moving all the way to GA? I thought you just left there for DC.  :lol:

Nah, 2016 moved from Georgia to NY. 2019 moved here to VA. :thumbsup:
Will

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 06, 2020, 04:29:11 AM
Nah, 2016 moved from Georgia to NY. 2019 moved here to VA. :thumbsup:

I can't keep track. :lol:
So is moving to GA your retirement move?
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

MX793

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 05, 2020, 08:31:14 PM
So they still have plenty of tread, Rich was of opinion (and I agree) that getting them too sticky makes hitting the limit dangerous... I love love love driving the car hard. And still staying mostly just a bit over the speed limit.

I'm on stock rims so I'll have to look at options. But first move to Georgia...

The notion that running lo-po tires makes it safer to push a car to the limit on the street is a fallacy.  Driving at the limit on public streets is dangerous, period.  Unless "the limit" is slower than you can run, losing control of a vehicle at the limit can result in very serious property damage and potentially serious injury.  I've even seen cars sustain expensive damage just skidding into a curb on an icy road at walking pace.  A car traveling 35-40 mph on good tires can easily skid 100+ ft on dry pavement if control is lost.  And the less grippy the tires, the further the car can potentially slide before friction drags it to a stop.  Assuming your tires generate .7g of grip while skidding, a car losing control at only 25 mph can potentially slide 90 ft before it stops.  Average 2-lane road in the US is 25 ft wide.

As a poignant example, here's some in-car of me losing control at an auto-x a couple of years ago. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsvH3cZNbH8

I was running on some good, sticky tires (you see them registering 1g+ of lateral grip).  GPS says I was going ~40 mph when I lost it.  I did a measurement on Google maps to see how far I slid.  116 ft.

At the same venue, I saw a guy in a brand new FRS lose control in a tighter section, going maybe 30-35 mph.  He fishtailed and skidded about 90 ft before bumping the front corner of the car into one of the light poles at the last moments of his skid.  A new bumper, fender, headlamp assembly, and frame straightening later (yes, even that relatively light impact managed to bend the frame slightly), the repairs were in the thousands.  Had that been on public streets, that pole may have been someone else's car or a pedestrian and the cost significantly higher.

The other, overlooked, drawback of running on lousy tires is that it means that in "regular" driving, you are always closer to the limit.  Most importantly, tires are the #1 deciding factor in braking distances.  Lousy tires compromise your ability to stop as well as make evasive maneuvers.  While you can generally compensate by allowing larger following distances, this does nothing to mitigate the risks associated with unforeseen circumstances like a deer dashing out in front of you, an inattentive driver pulling out right in front of you, or a child darting out into the street from behind a parked car that you had no way of seeing or anticipating.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Rich

LOL.  I'm sorry but an NB Miata on low grip 185 all seasons with an open diff on a backroad at 9/10ths which would probably be at the speed limit, but above the recommended turn speeds) is much more fun and safer than it would be with pilot sport cup 2 tires at 7/10ths on a backroad which would probably be twice the speed limit.
2003 Mazda Miata 5MT; 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 4AT

MX793

#2543
Quote from: Rich on June 06, 2020, 09:49:09 AM
LOL.  I'm sorry but an NB Miata on low grip 185 all seasons with an open diff on a backroad at 9/10ths which would probably be at the speed limit, but above the recommended turn speeds) is much more fun and safer than it would be with pilot sport cup 2 tires at 7/10ths on a backroad which would probably be twice the speed limit.

Safer does not mean safe.  It's like comparing playing around with an M80 vs a full stick of dynamite and arguing that the M80 is safer.  The M80 might be safer in that if it goes off in your hand it might only leave you deaf and missing a hand instead of dead, but that isn't anyone's definition of "safe", either.  And, of course, traveling 55 mph isn't even necessarily safer than traveling 80 or 90.  Spinning off the road at 55 mph in a Miata will total the vehicle and likely result in serious, maybe even fatal, injury to the occupants depending on what you collide with and how.  Sideways into a tree?  You're probably dead.  This is true of most cars.  Wrap a new Corvette around a tree sideways at 55 and you're also looking at a hospital stay, if not a trip to the morgue.  Dead is dead.  Falling out of a 10th story balcony will kill you just as surely as falling out of a 20th story balcony.  It's not "safer" to hang further off the edge of a 10th story balcony than the 20th story simply because it's half as far to the ground.

Then there's the matter of margin.  Any vehicle being driven at 9/10s is closer to out of control than one being driven at 7/10.  This is inherently less safe than operating a vehicle with more margin to its limits.  Less margin for error.  Less margin to absorb something unanticipated (animal, debris in the road, whatever). 

And, as established, a car can slide a considerable distance if control is lost even at what we consider "slow" or "safe" speeds of under 35 mph, let alone 50+.  I watched a guy nearly completely roll his car at an auto-x traveling at maybe 45 mph.  Lost control in a slalom, skidded off the edge of the pavement (we were on a taxiway) into a shallow ditch/depression, the car went up on its side and then got caught by a chainlink fence before going completely over.  I had full view of the underside of the car from where I was standing.  Car skidded and fishtailed at least 120 ft on asphalt before dropping tires into the soft shoulder at the end of the pavement.  Thankfully it was a targa top (Del Sol), so the driver was able to get out by popping the roof and climbing out that way.  The doors couldn't be opened because the car was literally at a 45 degree angle to the ground, driver's side down.  Do you have at least 150 ft of open, unobstructed space without hard obstacles, other drivers, or pedestrians when pushing your vehicle near the limit on public streets?  Because that's about what you need even if speeds stay under 50 mph.

I design auto-x courses.  A lot of thought is put into course layout to minimize the odds of someone hitting a hard obstacle, spectators, or other drivers (when 2 cars are on course at the same time).  Even with the relatively low speeds involved, we make sure that, in any section where a car is likely to lose control, there are no hard obstacles or hazards within at least 120 ft of a likely trajectory zone and that an out of control vehicle would be unlikely spin into the path of another car on course.  This also includes leaving generous run off at the end of faster sections ending in 180 turn-arounds in case someone has a fluke brake failure.  Even then, people find a way, once in a blue moon, to hit something.

You can argue that lo-po tires are legitimately safer on a race track with generous run offs, sand/gravel traps, and tire walls (assuming carry enough speed to make it past the run off and sand/gravel trap), allowing you to reach and play at the limits of the car in a controlled environment at speeds where you are more likely to recover control before hitting something.  Public streets are not a controlled environment with generous runoffs, gravel traps, and soft barriers.  You don't have 100s of feet of nothing if you spin off the road.  You frequently don't even have 100 ft.  Pushing a vehicle to its limit on public streets is not safe unless "the limit" is slower than you can travel by foot.  The notion that putting lo-po tires on your car so you can reach the limit at lower speeds allows you to safely explore the limits of your car on the street is a fallacy.  And in lowering the limit, you actually make your vehicle less safe to drive on the street by reducing your performance envelop and reducing operating margin.  Fitting your car with lousy tires is akin to disconnecting the brakes on one axle.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

AutobahnSHO

I rarely get up to 45mph around here......  when I do drive the highways it's up to about 60mph on 50mph roads and I'm driving maybe 6/10.

So when I say I'm driving it hard I mean accelerating full throttle (150hp? of fury!?!?!) which barely sometimes keeps up with traffic. I mean taking corners kind of hard (8/10) which yes if I slammed a curb would ruin much of the car, and I only take a corner hard if I have a) no cars whatsoever around the corner if I were to spin out or slide and b) have pure sightline for pedestrians, bikes, etc... and no one present.

Even 6/10 in this car is way more than most other drivers corner their cars though. It's hilarious being first at a left turn and going 7/10 and looking in the rearview to see cars like 8 car lengths behind. 

I looked at the tires this morning- Michelin something or others and while they are not new they still all have at least 1/4" tread on them. So yes, getting time to start shopping. 

Will

Laconian

Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

CaminoRacer

2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Speed_Racer

Love the RF, especially in that red. When I sat in one it reminded me of my MR2 - open top, flying buttresses.

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: Speed_Racer on June 12, 2020, 12:30:54 PM
Love the RF, especially in that red. When I sat in one it reminded me of my MR2 - open top, flying buttresses.

want want want want want
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

Laconian

Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT