https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-subaru-legacy-redesigned-large-touchscreen/
Copying the Tesla interior. Article points out they're keeping a sedan too!
Very interesting. Subaru has been behind the times with interiors/tech for some time now. But this might be a leap too far ahead
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 31, 2019, 07:35:54 PM
Very interesting. Subaru has been behind the times with interiors/tech for some time now. But this might be a leap too far ahead
agree.
I saw it on FB and someone said "they couldn't do leather until yesterday and now they want to go all Tesla?"
Just as stupid as others replacing physical buttons with a distracting touch screen for everyday functions
I use Android Auto every day and it's not that bad
The most I do with my HVAC is change the temperature or turn defrost on/off. A well designed screen wouldn't make that too difficult.
Would be great if they made an app to let you program the HVAC for remote starts. A screen would enable that much easier than physical controls
Looks like there are still hard buttons for the HVAC actually.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 31, 2019, 07:35:54 PM
Very interesting. Subaru has been behind the times with interiors/tech for some time now. But this might be a leap too far ahead
It took them awhile to get around to adding flashy infotainment, but EyeSight was pretty ahead of its time.
Noooooooooooooooooooooooo
I hope it's an OLED, at least. Milky LCD consoles at night are gross.
More details were released yesterday: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26147950/2020-subaru-legacy-photos-info/
Very much an evolution of the current design, but looks quite a bit sharper. Excited that it gets the turbo-engine.
Car and Driver did a rendering of the Outback: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26236402/subaru-outback-confirmed-2020/
RIP H6
CVT only :(
Quote from: MrH on February 09, 2019, 11:33:09 AM
CVT only :(
They haven't offered a manual in the Outback since the prior generation - 2014.
I know. Still sad about it.
Curious about the XT's EPA numbers. Could be interesting when our current one gets long in the tooth
Waiting to see that 2.4T in the WRX/STI.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 09, 2019, 12:48:27 PM
Waiting to see that 2.4T in the WRX/STI.
Yeah - having not really kept up with a lot of the auto industry over the past several years, I was surprised to learn the other day that the current WRX is still based on the previous generation Impreza, which is a pretty old car at this point.
This is probably wishful thinking, but maybe they'll throw it in the Forester too.
If I had to pick I'd say they need to put it in the Crosstrek
After the WRX that's def the Subaru that needs it the most. Even more than the BRZ
That'd be nice too, but according to MT, the Forester is even slower to 60 than the Crosstrek, and I very seriously doubt that they'd put it in the Crosstrek but not the Forester.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 09, 2019, 06:15:00 PM
If I had to pick I'd say they need to put it in the Crosstrek
After the WRX that's def the Subaru that needs it the most. Even more than the BRZ
Agree, it's one of their hottest sellers. I follow Subie on FB and most comments are "can we get a turbo in the Crosstrek?"
Don't get me wrong - a WRX powered Crosstrek is pretty much the exact thing I want to own. I just don't see it happening.
It seems so weird to me that new sports cars are so fast and powerful but Subarus and cute utes are slow AF with weezy little hamster engines.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 09, 2019, 09:24:21 PM
It seems so weird to me that new sports cars are so fast and powerful but Subarus and cute utes are slow AF with weezy little hamster engines.
Subaru's fight againt time dilation.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 09, 2019, 07:32:00 PM
That'd be nice too, but according to MT, the Forester is even slower to 60 than the Crosstrek, and I very seriously doubt that they'd put it in the Crosstrek but not the Forester.
Forester is selling like hotcakes so I'm guessing that market doesn't give AF about 0-60
Oddly enough I know a dude with a Forester XT... I'll ask him what's next when I see him
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 10, 2019, 07:30:15 AM
Forester is selling like hotcakes so I'm guessing that market doesn't give AF about 0-60
Oddly enough I know a dude with a Forester XT... I'll ask him what's next when I see him
It's not like the Crosstrek is a sales slouch though. It's increased its sales pretty significantly every year it's been out and nearly doubled base Impreza sales from 2018 (~76k units).
2018 - 144,384
2017 - 110,138
2016 - 95,677
2015 - 88,927
2014 - 70,956
2013 - 53.741
2012 - 7.396
(carsalesbase.com numbers)
I really hope both models get the new engine. I'd just be surprised if they skipped the Forester on the way to the Crosstrek.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 10, 2019, 09:17:59 AM
It's not like the Crosstrek is a sales slouch though. It's increased its sales pretty significantly every year it's been out and nearly doubled base Impreza sales from 2018 (~76k units).
2018 - 144,384
2017 - 110,138
2016 - 95,677
2015 - 88,927
2014 - 70,956
2013 - 53.741
2012 - 7.396
(carsalesbase.com numbers)
I really hope both models get the new engine. I'd just be surprised if they skipped the Forester on the way to the Crosstrek.
They essentially tripled sales volume from '13 to '18.
Need to rename it the CashTrek.
How many sales just ate into regular imprezza sales though?
You raise a good point r0tor but Impreza sales have climbed a bit over the same period
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/subaru/subaru-impreza/
Subaru has been killing it.... at significant cost (https://jalopnik.com/subarus-success-in-america-is-pushing-it-to-its-breakin-1832525761)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 12, 2019, 07:13:31 AM
You raise a good point r0tor but Impreza sales have climbed a bit over the same period
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/subaru/subaru-impreza/
Subaru has been killing it.... at significant cost (https://jalopnik.com/subarus-success-in-america-is-pushing-it-to-its-breakin-1832525761)
Apparently it's popularity is why it can't get a better engine!
https://www.motortrend.com/news/subaru-says-crosstrek-popular-get-turbocharged-version
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 12, 2019, 07:13:31 AM
Subaru has been killing it.... at significant cost (https://jalopnik.com/subarus-success-in-america-is-pushing-it-to-its-breakin-1832525761)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 12, 2019, 11:14:20 AM
Apparently it's popularity is why it can't get a better engine!
https://www.motortrend.com/news/subaru-says-crosstrek-popular-get-turbocharged-version
Those two things put together actually make a surprising amount of sense.
I didn't see anything in that Jalopnik article that really amounts to a "crisis". They had a single recall and some employees were working a ton of overtime? They're running full out at peak capacity, tons of overtime is expected. The recall isn't necessarily correlated to running at peak capacity though.
Quote from: MrH on February 12, 2019, 11:27:36 AM
I didn't see anything in that Jalopnik article that really amounts to a "crisis". They had a single recall and some employees were working a ton of overtime? They're running full out at peak capacity, tons of overtime is expected. The recall isn't necessarily correlated to running at peak capacity though.
"compelled thousands of workers to forgo millions of dollars in unpaid wages by working overtime off the clock" isn't cool
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 12, 2019, 11:32:05 AM
"compelled thousands of workers to forgo millions of dollars in unpaid wages by working overtime off the clock" isn't cool
Naw, but that's all happening in Japan at HQ. It's just weird to say this stuff is causing a quality crisis at the plant in the US.
Unpaid overtime, damage to the brand at home, management shakeups?
"Now imagine... it's Tesla"
Not arguing for or against the use of the word "crisis" but it's clear Subaru is having problems meeting demand. A nice problem to have but a problem nonetheless.
And there are quality issues creeping up here. Subaru paint is garbage for example
Quote from: MrH on February 12, 2019, 11:27:36 AM
I didn't see anything in that Jalopnik article that really amounts to a "crisis". They had a single recall and some employees were working a ton of overtime? They're running full out at peak capacity, tons of overtime is expected. The recall isn't necessarily correlated to running at peak capacity though.
Unpaid overtime. I don't know if that's common in Japan or not.
But also it's Jalopnik. Exaggeration is par for the course.
I'll have to ask my brother how things are where he works (its their NA HQ, not a manufacturing plant). It could just be that Japan is feel the crunch (that is where the Crosstrek is made currently).
Even the Camry took a hit on quality a few years back when Toyota forced increased output bypassing normal checks. At least that's what I remember reading. If only Ford could have Subaru's current problems.
Subaru's bread and butter (outside of the WRX/STi and BRZ) is slow and noisy, go anywhere on road any season, good interior space, good price. They're touting themselves as a real "safe" brand with the "eyesight" stuff being standard on even the most base models in the future. This negates them from offering a manual because a manual transmission is not compatible with eyesight. So I expect the Crosstrek next time around won't offer a manual as the take rate for it is pretty low anyways.
Quote from: veeman on February 12, 2019, 02:57:21 PM
Even the Camry took a hit on quality a few years back when Toyota forced increased output bypassing normal checks. At least that's what I remember reading. If only Ford could have Subaru's current problems.
Subaru's bread and butter (outside of the WRX/STi and BRZ) is slow and noisy, go anywhere on road any season, good interior space, good price. They're touting themselves as a real "safe" brand with the "eyesight" stuff being standard on even the most base models in the future. This negates them from offering a manual because a manual transmission is not compatible with eyesight. So I expect the Crosstrek next time around won't offer a manual as the take rate for it is pretty low anyways.
Wait, why isn't eyesight compatible with a manual? And if it isn't compatible, wouldn't it make more sense to just make it compatible?
My car is a manual and it has all the same driver aids that the automatic has. Lane keep assist, auto cruise control (including speeding up and slowing down), auto braking (when it sees an obstacle). The only difference between my car and the auto is that if I still have to change the gears myself.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 12, 2019, 03:01:30 PM
Wait, why isn't eyesight compatible with a manual? And if it isn't compatible, wouldn't it make more sense to just make it compatible?
My car is a manual and it has all the same driver aids that the automatic has. Lane keep assist, auto cruise control (including speeding up and slowing down), auto braking (when it sees an obstacle). The only difference between my car and the auto is that if I still have to change the gears myself.
When it does the auto braking, do you have to push in the clutch?
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 12, 2019, 03:03:22 PM
When it does the auto braking, do you have to push in the clutch?
Auto stop just stalls the engine :lol:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 12, 2019, 03:01:30 PM
auto cruise control (including speeding up and slowing down)
To FoMoCo's point about the clutch, is it full stop/restart cruise control though?
Subaru also doesn't include X-Mode on the manual models.
There are European cars with auto start stop + manual transmissions. It's possible, but Americans are too stupid and litigious
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 12, 2019, 03:16:43 PM
It's possible, but Americans are too stupid
Gotta pander to the dumbest 10%
Is it really about being too stupid or do American's just generally not want that stuff? I'll tell ya, personally, keep that shit as far away from me as possible and I'm glad that choosing to get a manual most of the time means I won't get most of it or have to worry.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 12, 2019, 07:13:31 AM
You raise a good point r0tor but Impreza sales have climbed a bit over the same period
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/subaru/subaru-impreza/
Subaru has been killing it.... at significant cost (https://jalopnik.com/subarus-success-in-america-is-pushing-it-to-its-breakin-1832525761)
Chances are most Crosstrek buyers would still be imprezza (or at least forester) owners if it didn't exist... I'm not sure how you actually convince yourself to buy one over the other
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 12, 2019, 03:11:12 PM
To FoMoCo's point about the clutch, is it full stop/restart cruise control though?
Subaru also doesn't include X-Mode on the manual models.
I'm not sure what you guys are asking.
Its a normal manual transmission. Anything to do with engaging or disengaging the clutch or gears is manual.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 12, 2019, 03:55:23 PM
I'm not sure what you guys are asking.
Its a normal manual transmission. Anything to do with engaging or disengaging the clutch or gears is manual.
I was asking about automatic braking. Does it bring the car to a full stop and, in doing so, do you have to manually disengage the clutch?
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 12, 2019, 03:57:36 PM
I was asking about automatic braking. Does it bring the car to a full stop and, in doing so, do you have to manually disengage the clutch?
Yes it will stop the car, and no, as mentioned, it is a manual transmission. If it could disengage the clutch on its own it wouldn't be a manual. :lol:
VW does make a version with an automated clutch, but it is generally referred to as an automatic.
Quote from: r0tor on February 12, 2019, 03:45:11 PM
Chances are most Crosstrek buyers would still be imprezza (or at least forester) owners if it didn't exist...
I dunno - Forester sales dramatically increased the first full year of Crosstrek sales, and as previously noted, Impreza sales have also been stable/slightly increasing in the same time span.
I think it's more that Subaru gave their cars much nicer interiors. My dad had a third gen (05-09) Outback for a few years when he first moved out to CO. It was not a particularly nice vehicle to be in.
Forester:
2018 - 171.613
2017 - 177.563
2016 - 178.593
2015 - 175.192
2014 - 159.953
2013 - 123.592 (Fourth gen introduced)
2012 - 76.347
2011 - 76.196
2010 - 85.080
2009 - 77.781
2008 - 60.748 (Third gen introduced)
2007 - 44.530
2006 - 51.258
Impreza:
2018 - 76.400
2017 - 86.043 (Fifth gen introduced)
2016 - 55.238
2015 - 66.785
2014 - 57.996
2013 - 58.856
2012 - 68.175 (Fourth gen introduced)
2011 - 27.391
2010 - 36.072
Quote from: r0tor on February 12, 2019, 03:45:11 PM
I'm not sure how you actually convince yourself to buy one over the other
Ground clearance? I'd have thought that would be obvious... It's a big deal for outdoorsy people. I don't think the Impreza has X-Mode either. Not a big deal to me, but I don't know if most people would care.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 12, 2019, 04:07:00 PM
Yes it will stop the car, and no, as mentioned, it is a manual transmission. If it could disengage the clutch on its own it wouldn't be a manual. :lol:
VW does make a version with an automated clutch, but it is generally referred to as an automatic.
Every time you hit the clutch, it'll disengage though right? And it'll brake until it stalls the car ?
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 12, 2019, 03:55:23 PM
I'm not sure what you guys are asking.
Its a normal manual transmission. Anything to do with engaging or disengaging the clutch or gears is manual.
Most of the auto cruise controls these days can bring the car to a full stop and restart it while in stop-and-go traffic. Which is basically the only automated driving feature that I would want, so if I can't have that, I don't really care if I don't get the rest of EyeSight.
But to your point, I don't know why they don't just remove that feature and make an "EyeSight Light" available on manual cars.
Quote from: MrH on February 12, 2019, 04:13:02 PM
Every time you hit the clutch, it'll disengage though right? And it'll brake until it stalls the car ?
It depends on what you mean by disengage. It will stop applying the throttle while the clutch it disengaged, but when the clutch is reengaged it will automatically reapply the throttle.
I have only had the emergency braking activate itself a couple times...it slams the brakes...i presume the car would stall if i didn't disengage the clutch but i wasn't interested in finding out right at that moment.
Quote from: MrH on February 12, 2019, 04:13:02 PM
Every time you hit the clutch, it'll disengage though right? And it'll brake until it stalls the car ?
I know this isn't SJ's car, but I found an article about the feature in manual Mustangs, and it gives you an audible warning and it turns off the cruise control before it would stall. Not sure what it would do in an emergency braking situation (or if the Mustang even has that equipped).
https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/heres-how-adaptive-cruise-control-works-manual-for-281474979852771
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 12, 2019, 04:19:16 PM
It depends on what you mean by disengage. It will stop applying the throttle while the clutch it disengaged, but when the clutch is reengaged it will automatically reapply the throttle.
I have only had the emergency braking activate itself a couple times...it slams the brakes...i presume the car would stall if i didn't disengage the clutch but i wasn't interested in finding out right at that moment.
Oh, most cars (including the Mustang I mentioned above) turn off the cruise control as soon as you hit the clutch. At least with traditional cruise control. I don't know how a manual Civic, for example, would react.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 12, 2019, 04:16:01 PM
Most of the auto cruise controls these days can bring the car to a full stop and restart it while in stop-and-go traffic. Which is basically the only automated driving feature that I would want, so if I can't have that, I don't really care if I don't get the rest of EyeSight.
But to your point, I don't know why they don't just remove that feature and make an "EyeSight Light" available on manual cars.
In that case no, the cannot simultaneously be an automatic and manual.
Obviously fully automated driving requires an automated transmission. But there is no functional reason they can't automate everything but the transmission fkr those folks that still like to have a manual transmission.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 12, 2019, 04:23:44 PM
In that case no, the cannot simultaneously be an automatic and manual.
Obviously fully automated driving requires an automated transmission. But there is no functional reason they can't automate everything but the transmission fkr those folks that still like to have a manual transmission.
I mean, presumably if they really wanted to, they could create a mechanism that only controls the clutch with cruise control on or in emergency braking situations. But I can't imagine it'd be worth the cost.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 12, 2019, 04:33:50 PM
I mean, presumably if they really wanted to, they could create a mechanism that only controls the clutch with cruise control on or in emergency braking situations. But I can't imagine it'd be worth the cost.
Electric clutch?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Magnetic
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 12, 2019, 11:42:35 AM
Unpaid overtime. I don't know if that's common in Japan or not.
But also it's Jalopnik. Exaggeration is par for the course.
It is common for hourly workers in Japan to stay late, without pay, to fix any mistakes they made or to make up the time that the mistake took to fix.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 12, 2019, 04:22:10 PM
Oh, most cars (including the Mustang I mentioned above) turn off the cruise control as soon as you hit the clutch. At least with traditional cruise control. I don't know how a manual Civic, for example, would react.
The same way.
The Subaru Eyesight is not manual transmission friendly:
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/subaru-will-probably-kill-off-its-manual-transmission-because-eyesight-isn-t-compatible-ar180284.html
Quote from: Laconian on February 12, 2019, 04:38:07 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Magnetic
Yep, pre-consolidation era, there was a ton of intriquing engineering going on.
Quote from: r0tor on February 12, 2019, 03:45:11 PM
Chances are most Crosstrek buyers would still be imprezza (or at least forester) owners if it didn't exist... I'm not sure how you actually convince yourself to buy one over the other
I wouldn't have bought an Imprezza and probably not a Forester if the Crosstrek didn't exist. Crosstrek looks very different than both. It's shocks/struts/whatever are more robust than the Imprezzas and the raised height makes all the stylistic difference. Forester, too me, looks kinda boring. Crosstrek has some personality especially in some of their more unique colors.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 12, 2019, 04:22:10 PM
Oh, most cars (including the Mustang I mentioned above) turn off the cruise control as soon as you hit the clutch. At least with traditional cruise control. I don't know how a manual Civic, for example, would react.
It would react the same as it always has.... the manual Hondas don't have ACC :cry:
Why all this fuss about automated cruise control? It has no place in heavy traffic. But then, at least 53% of human drivers have no place in any traffic, so we're all fucked no matter what. Just drive a big old truck with metal bumpers and let the idiots bounce off it.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 12, 2019, 04:33:50 PM
I mean, presumably if they really wanted to, they could create a mechanism that only controls the clutch with cruise control on or in emergency braking situations. But I can't imagine it'd be worth the cost.
Yeah, just put an electronic actuator on it. Or make it fully electric. might be kinda weird but who knows
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 12, 2019, 05:40:04 PM
Why all this fuss about automated cruise control? It has no place in heavy traffic.
Drive through Atlanta rush hour with it engaged. I think you will change your mind.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 12, 2019, 05:44:59 PM
Drive through Atlanta rush hour with it engaged. I think you will change your mind.
I haven't used the latest systems, but I disagree with them.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 12, 2019, 05:48:51 PM
I haven't used the latest systems, but I disagree with them.
I thought it was an acceptable balance of automation but me still having to pay attention because steering. I don't want lane keep though.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 12, 2019, 05:20:39 PM
It would react the same as it always has.... the manual Hondas don't have ACC :cry:
That was the main reason I went auto in the accord. Honda Sensing is really neutered on a manual.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 12, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
Ground clearance? I'd have thought that would be obvious... It's a big deal for outdoorsy people. I don't think the Impreza has X-Mode either. Not a big deal to me, but I don't know if most people would care.
That's what the forester is... A jacked up imprezza with different sheet metal rather than the jacked up imprezza with mostly the same sheet metal rather then the base imprezza
A Subaru buyer is going to be a Subaru buyer... Price, economy, and acceleration be damned
Quote from: veeman on February 12, 2019, 04:57:29 PM
The Subaru Eyesight is not manual transmission friendly:
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/subaru-will-probably-kill-off-its-manual-transmission-because-eyesight-isn-t-compatible-ar180284.html
Not much information as to *why* it's not compatible, but I did see a lot of ads :lol:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 12, 2019, 05:40:04 PM
Why all this fuss about automated cruise control? It has no place in heavy traffic. But then, at least 53% of human drivers have no place in any traffic, so we're all fucked no matter what. Just drive a big old truck with metal bumpers and let the idiots bounce off it.
The new systems are designed for heavy traffic. :huh:
Much cheaper than fixing cars over and over....
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 12, 2019, 08:40:49 PM
The new systems are designed for heavy traffic. :huh:
Much cheaper than fixing cars over and over....
I find it pretty easy not to crash by using the foot pedals and the large hand ring to control the motor vehicle. It's the other drivers that always crash into me.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 12, 2019, 09:10:14 PM
I find it pretty easy not to crash by using the foot pedals and the large hand ring to control the motor vehicle. It's the other drivers that always crash into me.
cuz you're unpredictable and unstable :popcorn: :dance: :rockon: :pullover: :pullover: :pullover: :nutty: :ohyeah: :ohyeah: :devil: :devil:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 12, 2019, 09:10:14 PM
I find it pretty easy not to crash by using the foot pedals and the large hand ring to control the motor vehicle. It's the other drivers that always crash into me.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: I lel'ed.
I will say, everyone who has said it's unnecessary, then rode with me and watched it in action in heavy traffic immediately get it. If it's stop and go, you just turn it on and sit there.
Quote from: r0tor on February 12, 2019, 06:32:12 PM
That's what the forester is... A jacked up imprezza with different sheet metal rather than the jacked up imprezza with mostly the same sheet metal rather then the base imprezza
A Subaru buyer is going to be a Subaru buyer... Price, economy, and acceleration be damned
Sub-compact vs. compact and ~$2500 difference.
Quote from: MrH on February 13, 2019, 07:47:59 AM
:lol: I lel'ed.
TMI
Quote from: MrH on February 13, 2019, 07:47:59 AM
I will say, everyone who has said it's unnecessary, then rode with me and watched it in action in heavy traffic immediately get it. If it's stop and go, you just turn it on and sit there.
Agreed, it's amazing. The Subaru has been rear-ended twice by inattentive phone-engrossed drivers in stop and go. At this point I think I prefer robots to do the tailgating.
Quote from: Laconian on February 16, 2019, 02:12:36 PM
Agreed, it's amazing. The Subaru has been rear-ended twice by inattentive phone-engrossed drivers in stop and go. At this point I think I prefer robots to do the tailgating.
It's coming!
They need to build in the dashcams. Then you have easy court evidence and the meat-holding-steering-wheel cars will become detrimental vs the computer cars.