Jeep Wrangler JL

Started by giant_mtb, December 06, 2017, 11:34:09 AM

r0tor

Quote from: Laconian on December 11, 2018, 12:04:11 PM
There's a reason why you hear that they're bad on-road. They're slow, loud, the interior is made of interlocked Rubbermaid totes, and they get 16mpg for no apparent reason.

The throttle does that truck thing where 50% of its travel yields louder fuel guzzling sounds but no actual acceleration.

What did you think of Hawaii?

You forgot they all pretty much leak too
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Soup DeVille

No. Not even my soft top YJ leaked when it was properly zipped up. That was 3 generations ago.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

giant_mtb

Quote from: r0tor on December 11, 2018, 03:46:45 PM
You forgot they all pretty much leak too

I've washed/detailed many Wranglers and not one roof leaked. Hard top, soft top, doesn't matter. And I spray water everywhere and in every direction.

BimmerM3

My step dad has had two (normal TJ, Unlimited TJ) and I don't recall either having any issues with leaking.

r0tor

Heh... I had 2 workers with new JKs and they both leaked and one was lemon lawed for it
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

giant_mtb

Quote from: r0tor on December 11, 2018, 06:10:04 PM
Heh... I had 2 workers with new JKs and they both leaked and one was lemon lawed for it

I have a friend whose wife's Renegade was essentially totaled because of a catastrophically leaky sunroof.  Or at least I think it's a Renegade, I dunno, the mini Jeeps confuse me. 

It happens. It's not strictly a Wrangler problem. Your strange fear of anything off-road worthy continues. 

Soup DeVille

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 11, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
I have a friend whose wife's Renegade was essentially totaled because of a catastrophically leaky sunroof.  Or at least I think it's a Renegade, I dunno, the mini Jeeps confuse me. 

It happens. It's not strictly a Wrangler problem. Your strange fear of anything off-road worthy continues. 

Drain tubes broke off from the front drip tray.

That was my fault.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

giant_mtb

Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 11, 2018, 06:38:27 PM
Drain tubes broke off from the front drip tray.

That was my fault.

You bastard!

And now my friend vows to never have an FCA product again. He drives a Tundra. Like a smart person. :devil:

Raza

Quote from: Laconian on December 11, 2018, 12:04:11 PM
There's a reason why you hear that they're bad on-road. They're slow, loud, the interior is made of interlocked Rubbermaid totes, and they get 16mpg for no apparent reason.

The throttle does that truck thing where 50% of its travel yields louder fuel guzzling sounds but no actual acceleration.

What did you think of Hawaii?

Hawaii was beautiful, felt hotter than it should have been for the temperature and humidity, and a really weird place for someone to vacation who doesn't like the beach or the heat. Still, I really enjoyed Maui. I'm looking forward to my return trip, where there will be less focus on doing touristy things and more focus on actually relaxing. I preferred my week in Napa because the weather was more my speed (40-70F), even though the sky was full of smoke from the wildfire, and drinking wine all day is much more relaxing than walking around in a sweat box all day.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

r0tor

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 11, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
Your strange fear of anything off-road worthy continues. 

What's up with that?

There are plenty of off road worthy SUVs on sale that don't completely suck while being driven on road - which is what 95+% of Wranglers are.

A 95th percentile Wrangler buyer pays an awful premium in price, quality, and performance for image.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

giant_mtb

#160
Quote from: r0tor on December 11, 2018, 07:57:33 PM
What's up with that?

There are plenty of off road worthy SUVs on sale that don't completely suck while being driven on road - which is what 95+% of Wranglers are.

A 95th percentile Wrangler buyer pays an awful premium in price, quality, and performance for image.

A Wrangler is a dirtbike.  A Grand Cherokee or 4Runner is a dual-sport.

One is designed for 50/50 on-/off-road use and the other is designed for 90/10 (edit: or 10/90 based on how I said on/off just then lol)

You do understand that there are places where it is fun and makes sense to have a Wrangler, right?

Soup DeVille

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 11, 2018, 06:44:20 PM
You bastard!

And now my friend vows to never have an FCA product again. He drives a Tundra. Like a smart person. :devil:

We were never good enough to make sunroofs for Toyota.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

BimmerM3

And some people like truckiness, being up high, and open air experience, even if they don't take it off road.

It's really not that much different that liking a stiff, sporty ride, feeling like you're gonna scrape your butt on the ground, and open air experience. Just personal preference.

r0tor

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 11, 2018, 08:53:31 PM

You do understand that there are places where it is fun and makes sense to have a Wrangler, right?

Absolutely.  I rent one every once in a while to cruise around sand dunes on vacation... and it's great until you hit pavement.

It simply though doesn't apply to 90% of owners.  Most take something that is terrible on road, put a lift and tires on that make it even worse on road, and never take it offroad (let's be serious - these things cost $40k+ now and aren't exactly expendable ).  The owners simply are looking for the image and have ridiculously low expectations for daily driving.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

RomanChariot

Quote from: r0tor on December 12, 2018, 08:36:07 AM
Absolutely.  I rent one every once in a while to cruise around sand dunes on vacation... and it's great until you hit pavement.

It simply though doesn't apply to 90% of owners.  Most take something that is terrible on road, put a lift and tires on that make it even worse on road, and never take it offroad (let's be serious - these things cost $40k+ now and aren't exactly expendable ).  The owners simply are looking for the image and have ridiculously low expectations for daily driving.

Men wear pants they have to hold up by hand to keep them from falling off. Women wear 6" stilettos that are miserable to walk in. People buy $250,000 sports cars that they only take on leisurely Sunday drives. If it makes them happy, who am I to complain. Except of course the baggy pants. Those are just stupid.

r0tor

Quote from: RomanChariot on December 12, 2018, 10:42:19 AM
Men wear pants they have to hold up by hand to keep them from falling off. Women wear 6" stilettos that are miserable to walk in. People buy $250,000 sports cars that they only take on leisurely Sunday drives. If it makes them happy, who am I to complain. Except of course the baggy pants. Those are just stupid.

So what's so bad about saying

QuoteThe owners simply are looking for the image and have ridiculously low expectations for daily driving.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

RomanChariot

Quote from: r0tor on December 12, 2018, 10:55:12 AM
So what's so bad about saying


Nothing in particular except you have a penchant for bashing the Wrangler in every thread that mentions it.

CaminoRacer

He does own a Grand Cherokee.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

BimmerM3

Quote from: r0tor on December 12, 2018, 10:55:12 AM
So what's so bad about saying


1. It has a negative connotation, like you're insulting the owners. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's how it comes off.
2. It's not adding anything useful to the conversation. We all know that Wranglers suck on-road. Who cares if other people choose to drive them anyway?

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: RomanChariot on December 12, 2018, 10:42:19 AM
Men wear pants they have to hold up by hand to keep them from falling off. Women wear 6" stilettos that are miserable to walk in. People buy $250,000 sports cars that they only take on leisurely Sunday drives. If it makes them happy, who am I to complain. Except of course the baggy pants. Those are just stupid.

Fuck pants. I wear coveralls, also known as a onesie.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

r0tor

Quote from: BimmerM3 on December 12, 2018, 12:43:58 PM
1. It has a negative connotation, like you're insulting the owners. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's how it comes off.
2. It's not adding anything useful to the conversation. We all know that Wranglers suck on-road. Who cares if other people choose to drive them anyway?

It was relevant in response to the safety testing - nobody is going to care about safety ratings in a vehicle they ride around top less and doorless that accelerates, brakes, and overall handles like crap.  There is no overall high expectation from these things like a Volvo buyer might have.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Payman

Jesus Christ, they're not that bad to drive on pavement. They're actually better in the city than many cars. Up high view, excellent visibility all round, short wheelbase makes it easy to navigate traffic, potholes and bad pavement doesn't phase it, etc. At legal highway speeds, it can be perfectly comfortable.

r0tor

Umm there is a pretty substantial difference in stopping distances between a Wrangler and Grand Cherokee... at highway speeds there is an absolute enormous difference in ride/handling
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

giant_mtb

Quote from: r0tor on December 13, 2018, 07:45:13 AM
Umm there is a pretty substantial difference in stopping distances between a Wrangler and Grand Cherokee... at highway speeds there is an absolute enormous difference in ride/handling

Nobody cares. So it's not the vehicle for you. Don't buy one. It's so simple. Your ego over what other people drive is stupendous. 

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Rockraven on December 13, 2018, 05:17:40 AM
Jesus Christ, they're not that bad to drive on pavement. They're actually better in the city than many cars. Up high view, excellent visibility all round, short wheelbase makes it easy to navigate traffic, potholes and bad pavement doesn't phase it, etc. At legal highway speeds, it can be perfectly comfortable.

Except for the random tippiness and swerviness and complete disconnect from the road....
Will

giant_mtb

Finally got my hands on one today. Really fresh, like 8k miles. Felt like a Wrangler for the 2 blocks I drove it. Super base model...crank windows and no power locks. She handed me the key fob and it was a totally buttonless switchblade fob. Confused me...I was like "do the doors lock on their own or something?"  Nope.  Manual locks.

BimmerM3

Ha, I guess that's a Wrangler for ya.

The TJ Unlimited (the 2-door version with the extened trunk/bed area) is the most recent one I've driven, and even that was for short distances so I wasn't paying attention to how bad the NVH and handling really was. I seriously doubt that I'll get one, but I should at least go check out a new one whenever I start seriously shopping for a new car. If nothing else, the interiors are way nicer than they used to be.

giant_mtb

Yeah, what with removable doors and stuff, they decided to just forego any and all door electronics on base models.  Not terribly surprised, but it is 2019... :lol:

12,000 RPM

Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Tave

We've been pretty happy with our JL. It crushes everything we can throw at it and has held up great. On-road manners are fine, a little darty but that's mostly the oversquare wheelbase. Fuel economy consistently hovers around ~21 mpg (which isn't bad for a two-ton brick w/ wheels). NVH is night and day compared the even the JK.

Only drawback is how goofy the roof rack looks w those pop off front roof panels.
As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me.

Quote from: thecarnut on March 16, 2008, 10:33:43 AM
Depending on price, that could be a good deal.