7 years old/117,000 miles. Bought it certified and two months to go on monthly finance before I own it. No longer take it to dealer for service because nothing under warranty anymore. It's been awesome and my favorite car I've owned. Has had a few issues but everything besides oil changes/filters, brakes, battery, and tires has been covered under warranty and it's never left me stranded.
Took it in for an oil change today at a local independent who I've used a lot in the past. Front brakes need to be replaced soon (month or two). Left front hub has movement but no noise when test driven. Needs to get replaced probably sooner rather than later. Both of those together are gonna cost close to a grand to fix. All 4 tires will need to be replaced in a few months (this car with its 22 in wheels eats tires). That's another grand. Will need all the fluids changed soon. The drive belts are dry and cracked and will need to be replaced within 6 months.
I gotta decide should I invest the money or get a new or another certified car. Probably makes most sense to invest the money and keep driving it but it's my wife's daily driver in addition to our family car and she does want something a bit more fuel efficient and doesn't require premium gas. Plus we take a lot of long interstate trips with this car (although not in the last 6 weeks) and older rust belt cars are more likely to have things go wrong mid trip and that's not something I want to deal with.
Thinking about a Hyundai Palisade. Most people think the Kia Telluride looks better but my wife and I kinda like the Palisade. Can get pretty good financing rates right now plus I think should get about 10 grand on trade in for my Infiniti.
My question is would you dump the Infiniti now or pay to get the front brakes and front hub replaced and dump the car at the end of the summer.
I mean, financially speaking it is almost always better to keep the used car as long as it is practical.
But if you can comfortably afford a newer/nicer vehicle, nothing wrong (IMHO) upgrading at the point you are at. I mean, I traded in my last car when it was a year younger and way less mileage. I would like to get ~6 years out of my current car as well, at which point I'll almost certainly be looking to sell/trade it.
Quote from: veeman on April 17, 2020, 11:38:19 AM
7 years old/117,000 miles. Bought it certified and two months to go on monthly finance before I own it. No longer take it to dealer for service because nothing under warranty anymore. It's been awesome and my favorite car I've owned. Has had a few issues but everything besides oil changes/filters, brakes, battery, and tires has been covered under warranty and it's never left me stranded.
Took it in for an oil change today at a local independent who I've used a lot in the past. Front brakes need to be replaced soon (month or two). Left front hub has movement but no noise when test driven. Needs to get replaced probably sooner rather than later. Both of those together are gonna cost close to a grand to fix. All 4 tires will need to be replaced in a few months (this car with its 22 in wheels eats tires). That's another grand. Will need all the fluids changed soon. The drive belts are dry and cracked and will need to be replaced within 6 months.
I gotta decide should I invest the money or get a new or another certified car. Probably makes most sense to invest the money and keep driving it but it's my wife's daily driver in addition to our family car and she does want something a bit more fuel efficient and doesn't require premium gas. Plus we take a lot of long interstate trips with this car (although not in the last 6 weeks) and older rust belt cars are more likely to have things go wrong mid trip and that's not something I want to deal with.
Thinking about a Hyundai Palisade. Most people think the Kia Telluride looks better but my wife and I kinda like the Palisade. Can get pretty good financing rates right now plus I think should get about 10 grand on trade in for my Infiniti.
My question is would you dump the Infiniti now or pay to get the front brakes and front hub replaced and dump the car at the end of the summer.
Simply the name itself would make me choose the Paslisade over the Telluride. Besides, KIA is still looked upon as the lesser of the brands.
I wouldn't dump a few thousand into it just to keep it until end of summer.
I think a Teluride looks better, but they're basically the same one. Get whichever one you like more. Seems like a lot of vehicle for the money.
Quote from: FoMoJo on April 17, 2020, 12:16:56 PM
Simply the name itself would make me choose the Paslisade over the Telluride. Besides, KIA is still looked upon as the lesser of the brands.
Yeah I hear ya but that's more of a factor for my wife than me (brand name) and I don't think she cares if it's Hyundai vs Kia. They're basically kinda the same Korean company with very similar product lines, same warranty, etc. Kia Telluride has a more butch look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g7S6dxlGqA
Quote from: MrH on April 17, 2020, 12:35:11 PM
I wouldn't dump a few thousand into it just to keep it until end of summer.
I think a Teluride looks better, but they're basically the same one. Get whichever one you like more. Seems like a lot of vehicle for the money.
Thanks for your opinion! I think if I tell my wife I think we should get a new car now instead of paying an extra thousand now vs I think we should pay the extra thousand now and wait out the summer she'll probably go along with what I say either way. Since I got two months left to pay it off, for the former I would pay the car off now (about two thousand dollars) and for the latter I would let it play out with the bank financing (a thousand a month).
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 17, 2020, 11:58:25 AM
I mean, financially speaking it is almost always better to keep the used car as long as it is practical.
But if you can comfortably afford a newer/nicer vehicle, nothing wrong (IMHO) upgrading at the point you are at. I mean, I traded in my last car when it was a year younger and way less mileage. I would like to get ~6 years out of my current car as well, at which point I'll almost certainly be looking to sell/trade it.
It's not the right way to think about it at all I know but I currently pay about a thousand month and have two months left to pay off the car. If I trade it for a new Palisade with the amount I should get as a trade in minus the amount I owe, I'd be paying around 300 less a month. Course, if I kept the Infiniti I would be paying 0 a month in a few months as I'd own the car from the bank.
I think the Telluride is more handsome but haven't read reviews of either one.
Of course I think your current ride is just barely broken in, so I'd update it and enjoy a few years of no car payments. :lol: The money saved would surely pay for tow truck, repairs, rental cars, and hotel stays many times over.
In addition, Odyssey or Sienna are far superior than any of those. :cheers:
Well no doubt a minivan is the best family hauler but... :lol:
Anyways I decided to hold off on buying anything new and got the brakes and front hub replaced on my Infiniti. I'm in the process of refinancing my house and didn't want a new debt to show up on my credit check until it goes through which is still a few weeks away. Also thought I would get a low ball offer on trade in of my car since there's a glut of cars on the used car market. Also having second thoughts about getting a new car since you can get really good deals on certified low mileage one to two year old used cars right now.
For the price of a well optioned Palisade, you could easily get a used manual Aston Martin V8 Vantage. World'll be over soon enough, I say go for it.
Quote from: veeman on May 17, 2020, 12:32:38 PM
Well no doubt a minivan is the best family hauler but... :lol:
Anyways I decided to hold off on buying anything new and got the brakes and front hub replaced on my Infiniti. I'm in the process of refinancing my house and didn't want a new debt to show up on my credit check until it goes through which is still a few weeks away. Also thought I would get a low ball offer on trade in of my car since there's a glut of cars on the used car market. Also having second thoughts about getting a new car since you can get really good deals on certified low mileage one to two year old used cars right now.
Cool cool.
I think the US car market (and probably many other places as well) has a lot of emotional games which the average consumer doesn't think about.
1- cars last a lot longer than people think.
2- that magical 100k miles hump (and/or timing belt change).
3- On the low end (sub $10k and especially sub $5k) the "worth" of the car for sale or tradein is usually much lower than it would cost to get an equivalent car with good history.
4- Even if repairs are necessary, "usually" once stuff is fixed it's not going to break again for a long time.
5- even an engine swap can be under $2500 for mainstream cars. Much cheaper than going out and buying a new car with new unknown problems.
6- it's fun and exciting to get a new car. Keeping the one you have is boring.
It's funny to see ads with "i just replaced x, y, z, h, a, b, c".
-Basically they've fixed all the stuff that will get the car good but are "scared it will keep breaking". But now x, y, z, h, a, b, c are not going to break again. So they will get something else now that the car should last awhile.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on May 18, 2020, 12:10:18 PM
It's funny to see ads with "i just replaced x, y, z, h, a, b, c".
-Basically they've fixed all the stuff that will get the car good but are "scared it will keep breaking". But now x, y, z, h, a, b, c are not going to break again. So they will get something else now that the car should last awhile.
The question is usually "what's going to break next?". Newer cars, and luxury cars especially, have increasingly complex electronics in them that are much harder to diagnose. You could sink a lot of money just into diagnostic fees to have a mechanic try to identify and isolate a fault if it's something in the electrics, even if the part itself isn't too much to replace.
Quote from: MX793 on May 20, 2020, 12:23:25 PM
The question is usually "what's going to break next?". Newer cars, and luxury cars especially, have increasingly complex electronics in them that are much harder to diagnose. You could sink a lot of money just into diagnostic fees to have a mechanic try to identify and isolate a fault if it's something in the electrics, even if the part itself isn't too much to replace.
Yeah but if you just changed the brakes, timing belt, and waterpump, and air conditioner, those things are not going to fail again soon.
Yeah for me it's having the thoughts about whether in the future should I really take this 7 year old, 100 thousand mile plus, salted road winter car on a long 8 hr interstate trip with my family. It's maintained, it's fine, but a newer lower mileage car is less likely to run into problems. I know there's no magic number of miles or number of years before I should dump it but something tells me now's about time. If it was my work car, I can tolerate a break down. Call a tow truck, Uber to work, show up an hour late. Not a very big deal. 1 am in the middle of BFE, not anywhere near my house, only have a few days for this vacation... not to mention my wife's anger,... uh no thanks. Yeah anything can happen with any car but older high mileage cars are just much more likely to fail.
I'll drive it through the summer and then start looking again. A one or two year old certified luxury name three row SUV might be more enticing than a new Palisade/Telluride. Used cars can be had at a significant discount now looking at autotrader. I haven't seen that with new cars.
I've driven very old cars all the way from NY or SC to Wyoming. :lol:
But yeah, if you can afford, used are a much better financial coffee.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on May 20, 2020, 12:54:53 PM
Yeah but if you just changed the brakes, timing belt, and waterpump, and air conditioner, those things are not going to fail again soon.
No, those aren't going to fail again anytime soon, but what is the next item to fail? And how much might it cost to fix?
A coworker had a VW T-reg diesel. Liked the vehicle quite a bit. Very luxurious, great mileage, perfect tow rig for his camper. Then, as it got to that 10 year, 100,000 mile mark, things started to fail. A piece of flex pipe in the exhaust cracked. Exhaust shop couldn't weld it. He talked to the dealer about fixing it and they quoted him like 2 grand. He's mechanically competent, so he decided to do the replacement himself. Because VW, he couldn't just buy the piece of flex pipe, he had to buy an entire exhaust ($$$). And because the car was so uncommon, couldn't source one at a junkyard. Bought the least expensive one he could find online and did the repair himself. Afterwards, he said he understood why the dealer price was so high. Not only were parts expensive, but you basically need to remove the engine.
Not long after, one of the heat exchangers failed (either the oil cooler or trans cooler). Again, dealer quoted a 4-figure price. Again, coworker fixed it himself. Again, parts were $$$. Again, the repairs required substantial labor (service manual said to remove the entire front clip, coworker found a way not to do that, but admitted the approach risked damaging some expensive parts). Then a main bearing seal started dripping oil a few weeks after that. He did some research and that one was a major $$$ repair and beyond his ability to do at home. He decided to trade it in while it was still worth something.
Brakes and water pump are wear items. They need periodic replacement, the latter typically around that 100k mark. AC isn't a critical failure. But what's next on the list that might be? Is the radiator on the verge of splitting a seam and dumping coolant all over the road (happened to a friend)? Sudden transmission cooler rupture (happened to a relative)? These aren't wear items and aren't inconvenient "I'll fix it when I get a chance" failures. These are "call a tow truck and find another mode of transportation while it spends a few days in the shop" failures.
Quote from: MX793 on May 27, 2020, 06:19:47 AM
Brakes and water pump are wear items. They need periodic replacement, the latter typically around that 100k mark. AC isn't a critical failure. But what's next on the list that might be? Is the radiator on the verge of splitting a seam and dumping coolant all over the road (happened to a friend)? Sudden transmission cooler rupture (happened to a relative)? These aren't wear items and aren't inconvenient "I'll fix it when I get a chance" failures. These are "call a tow truck and find another mode of transportation while it spends a few days in the shop" failures.
And calling a tow truck and paying for a rental car and a shop to fix stuff is still cheaper than starting a round of car payments. :huh:
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on May 27, 2020, 09:23:55 PM
And calling a tow truck and paying for a rental car and a shop to fix stuff is still cheaper than starting a round of car payments. :huh:
Rust belt cars age much faster than elsewhere. A few years back, a friend bought an early WRX. Car was like 12 or 13 years old, average mileage. Single-owner, unmodified/unmolested. Had a little body rust in the usual areas, but otherwise seemed to be in good shape. Within the first month, he was sitting at an intersection and the radiator emptied its contents onto the street. No sooner was that fixed, a CV joint self-destructed while on a road trip. A few weeks after that, the fuel tank split a seam and started leaking. At least one shop actually refused to repair it because the chassis was so rusted that the car wouldn't pass inspection. He managed to get it fixed with a used junkyard tank and then found some sucker out of state who wanted to buy it. He sunk at least 50% of what he'd paid for the car in repairs within 6 months. Major repair after major repair could well add up to money better spent on a newer, lower mileage vehicle.
Yeah, if you have to spend $600 every other month to fix something, might as well get a new Civic or something for $200-300 a month.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 28, 2020, 09:28:54 AM
Yeah, if you have to spend $600 every other month to fix something, might as well get a new Civic or something for $200-300 a month.
And it's not just the cost of fixing the car, it's the other costs like missing work. I worked with a guy who was a temp/contract worker with the potential for full time employment if it panned out. He was frequently late to work, or didn't show at all, and his excuse was typically "car trouble". Needless to say, he was not offered a permanent position. I think we may have even terminated his contract early.
Quote from: MX793 on May 28, 2020, 09:54:32 AM
And it's not just the cost of fixing the car, it's the other costs like missing work. I worked with a guy who was a temp/contract worker with the potential for full time employment if it panned out. He was frequently late to work, or didn't show at all, and his excuse was typically "car trouble". Needless to say, he was not offered a permanent position. I think we may have even terminated his contract early.
Was it actually car trouble, or was it "car trouble."
Dump Nissan
Get Kia Stinger
Miata
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 28, 2020, 10:57:43 AM
Was it actually car trouble, or was it "car trouble."
Obviously I did not witness any automotive failures first hand. I know one day he was late (although not too late) because he got pulled over after overtaking a NY Conservation Officer while talking on his cell phone. He shows up like 30 minutes late and says "Did you know DEC officers can write traffic tickets?".
Ok but I bought a 12yr old minivan with 168k miles and 5 years later it has 80k more miles with minimal repairs. Spent quite a bit to have dealer do the timing belt and water pump etc...
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 28, 2020, 09:28:54 AM
Yeah, if you have to spend $600 every other month to fix something, might as well get a new Civic or something for $200-300 a month.
Yes but 4 repairs like that is still a year of car payments...
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on May 28, 2020, 06:20:27 PM
Yes but 4 repairs like that is still a year of car payments...
Fair enough, but predictability is a factor. On an older vehicle, you may never know when something will pop up, and some people just don't want to deal with that uncertainty.
Me and you are lucky...our high-miles Japanese vehicles are going strong. Taco is at 194k miles with no major issues (fingers crossed). :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 28, 2020, 07:37:57 PM
Fair enough, but predictability is a factor. On an older vehicle, you may never know when something will pop up, and some people just don't want to deal with that uncertainty.
Me and you are lucky...our high-miles Japanese vehicles are going strong. Taco is at 194k miles with no major issues (fingers crossed). :lol:
You can try to stack the cards, but sometimes that doesn't matter.
My wife has always driven newish cars- I've always had the old ones.
Currently, the 208,000 mile 2002 LC is at the same number of breakdowns as the 2018 Durango at 40,000 miles, and a quarter of the days out of service.
The previous Acadia didn't fair much better; dropping a transmission on her twice.
But, I did have a vehicle burst into flames on me, so there's that...
For sure. It's never a for-sure thing with a newer vehicle. But at least with a new-vehicle lease, things are covered under warranty to a point. Doesn't speak to down time without the vehicle, though, and that's a big factor.
I'm lucky that I have a professional mechanic for a best friend that also has a Taco like mine so he knows them in and out. I buy parts and some beers for the garage...we get things done.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 28, 2020, 07:50:40 PM
Currently, the 208,000 mile 2002 LC is at the same number of breakdowns as the 2018 Durango at 40,000 miles, and a quarter of the days out of service.
To be fair, you're comparing a Toyota product to a FCX product.
Yeah Soup's and MX793's thoughts are completely where I'm thinking. It'd be different if it was my daily driver to work and I have to deal with a break down by myself or car in the shop for an unscheduled repair. It's that it's my wife's daily driver, her commute is 40 minutes long each way, and it's our long distance road trip car. The car still "feels" solid though unlike my Buick Enclave (same architecture as Soup's Acadia) which felt all used up around 100 thousand miles and 5 to 6 years old. Still a 7 year old winter salt road car with 100,000 miles is a bit tired. Things break, rust out, fray, etc.
I could get the same car I currently have except only 3 years old with < 15 thousand miles on the odometer for great great deals right now.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=534967843&zip=06883&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D06883%26listingTypes%3DCERTIFIED%26startYear%3D2017%26maxMileage%3D30000%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceASC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Doff%26modelCodeList%3DINFINQX80%26makeCodeList%3DINFIN%26searchRadius%3D75%26isNewSearch%3Dtrue&listingTypes=CERTIFIED&startYear=2017&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=INFINQX80&makeCodeList=INFIN&searchRadius=75&makeCode1=INFIN&modelCode1=INFINQX80&clickType=listing
True it's a great deal because it's ugly, a gas hog, from a floundering brand, with an ancient electronic interface.
But I like it :lol:
When I bought my car it was certified, 3 years old, and had 20 thousand miles on the odometer. It was way more expensive than what I'm seeing now on autotrader for certified, 3 year old, similar mileage same model cars. Now they're like 10-15 grand cheaper.
Quote from: MX793 on May 28, 2020, 09:42:29 PM
To be fair, you're comparing a Toyota product to a FCX product.
I am.
But, also a Ford to a GM, and Honda to Honda. Aaand, Honda to Honda again I guess.
All I'm saying is that buying a new car isn't a guarantee of a problem free experience. With the old cars, I've basically known what to expect and rolled with the punches when I didn't. With the new cars, I get pissed and gnash my teeth.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 28, 2020, 10:39:32 PM
I am.
But, also a Ford to a GM, and Honda to Honda. Aaand, Honda to Honda again I guess.
All I'm saying is that buying a new car isn't a guarantee of a problem free experience. With the old cars, I've basically known what to expect and rolled with the punches when I didn't. With the new cars, I get pissed and gnash my teeth.
I'm like that too. Except my definition of old is pre-1980 and so even my 180k Mazda6 falls in my "newer car that shouldn't break" category and I gnash my teeth.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 29, 2020, 09:12:59 AM
I'm like that too. Except my definition of old is pre-1980 and so even my 180k Mazda6 falls in my "newer car that shouldn't break" category and I gnash my teeth.
An older car for me is anything over 12 years. Consumer's Reports say the average car service life is about 8 years. The average age of cars on the road is 11 years.
Anything older than that, and one should expect some problems.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 29, 2020, 10:44:55 AM
An older car for me is anything over 12 years. Consumer's Reports say the average car service life is about 8 years. The average age of cars on the road is 11 years.
Anything older than that, and one should expect some problems.
I agree, it's just an irrational thing in my mind. And I still think it's like 2010 so a 2004 car is still fairly new!
Shit, I get excited when I see a car from 2004 in good shape. 2004 Grand Prix with that beautiful plastic cladding down the side, not rusted out and beat to fuck by some kid?? Holy shit!
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 29, 2020, 10:55:57 AM
Shit, I get excited when I see a car from 2004 in good shape. 2004 Grand Prix with that beautiful plastic cladding down the side, not rusted out and beat to fuck by some kid?? Holy shit!
I get excited if I see a Grand Am where the taillights work.
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 29, 2020, 10:55:57 AM
Shit, I get excited when I see a car from 2004 in good shape. 2004 Grand Prix with that beautiful plastic cladding down the side, not rusted out and beat to fuck by some kid?? Holy shit!
I actually like those ... sportsy boats. The interior is comfy, and with the 3800 there isn't much to worry aboot.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 29, 2020, 11:24:29 AM
I get excited if I see a Grand Am where the taillights work.
:lol:
Friend of mine in HS had a really nice dark green Riviera with the s/c 3.8. What a fuckin nice whip to cruise as a couple of teenagers. He kept it nice, too.
I have a theory that if you buy a car more than 100k miles in good condition, it's going to last.
1- Lots of cars get totalled (most by people who can't drive?)
2- If it's at that many miles, whoever drove it usually took care of it.
3- Lemons die earlier and/or they get the major issues finally taken care of.
Now obviously there are too many factors to take into consideration.
I went minivan shopping in 2005 and found a small lot that specialized in 3-8yr old Chrysler minivans. That's literally all they had! In our price range (about $5k). Ex wanted a purple one, it was cold out that day but I moved a car seat and booster into the purple one so the whole family could take a test drive. Steering was SUPER wobbly, heater never blew hot (after it warmed up), and CEL. I told the dealer and they tried to say tire must be low, gotta let it warm up, and gas cap might be loose.
Didn't want to waste the drive so asked about a different one- ex was ok just letting me drive it. 1999 Dodge Grand Caravan sport, bought it and drove quite well except for major rear a/c repair until I totaled it 4 years later. :cry:
Anyway, lemons are lemons but the higher mileage ones are "broken in" if they've been cared for.
LOL our current minivan is the most money I've ever spent on a car ($12500) and 2nd newest (8yrs). Plus we have wife's 15yr old and the 20yr old daily driver go-kart. I was realizing today the silliness that was my newest (2004 Sienna in 2009)- paid $7k in cash and $100 payments for 4 years then still had to use half a tax return into paying it off.
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 29, 2020, 10:55:57 AM
Shit, I get excited when I see a car from 2004 in good shape. 2004 Grand Prix with that beautiful plastic cladding down the side, not rusted out and beat to fuck by some kid?? Holy shit!
There are 2 in my neighborhood. I was shocked as well. Must have been southern cars.
Quote from: MX793 on May 31, 2020, 07:14:12 AM
There are 2 in my neighborhood. I was shocked as well. Must have been southern cars.
Or elderly-owned. I have a handful of old ladies I detail for that have cars like a pristine 8th gen Buick Lesabre with like 45k miles on it. Just did a super clean, elderly owned 2010 Corolla with 34k miles on it the other day.
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 31, 2020, 07:20:49 AM
Or elderly-owned. I have a handful of old ladies I detail for that have cars like a pristine 8th gen Buick Lesabre with like 45k miles on it. Just did a super clean, elderly owned 2010 Corolla with 34k miles on it the other day.
Possibly, but you didn't tend to see too many of those later Pontiacs being driven by elderly people. They tended to go towards Buicks, Olds, or Impalas. Or a Bonnie, if a Pontiac. The GP tended to ride pretty stiff.
Tru tru.
In its time I always saw the Pontiac Grand Prix driven by young men. In warmer months usually hand washed in their driveway every weekend.
Quote from: veeman on May 31, 2020, 02:03:44 PM
In its time I always saw the Pontiac Grand Prix driven by young men. In warmer months usually hand washed in their driveway every weekend.
The Grand Prix and sportbikes were the things to buy for sailors around the naval station. Dodge Charger seems to fill that niche now, which arguably fits the performance bill better for a young 20something overflowing with testosterone.
Quote from: Laconian on May 31, 2020, 02:51:02 PM
The Grand Prix and sportbikes were the things to buy for sailors around the naval station. Dodge Charger seems to fill that niche now, which arguably fits the performance bill better for a young 20something overflowing with testosterone.
And lousy credit.
Underflowing with credit.
Quote from: Laconian on May 31, 2020, 02:51:02 PM
The Grand Prix and sportbikes were the things to buy for sailors around the naval station. Dodge Charger seems to fill that niche now, which arguably fits the performance bill better for a young 20something overflowing with testosterone.
And Challenger. We saw one the other day and it's as long as our minivan with 1/10th the utility.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 01, 2020, 09:05:55 AM
And Challenger. We saw one the other day and it's as long as our minivan with 1/10th the utility.
Challies are huge. They are also the cheapest V8 ponycar and Chrysler tends to have the best finance deals.
Quote from: MX793 on June 01, 2020, 10:54:13 AM
Challies are huge. They are also the cheapest V8 ponycar and Chrysler tends to have the best finance deals.
Didn't you spend an entire thread in the not too distant past saying the Challenger is not a pony car because it's too big for that classification?
:lol:
Quote from: MX793 on June 01, 2020, 10:54:13 AM
Challies are huge. They are also the cheapest V8 ponycar and Chrysler tends to have the best finance deals.
But they're FCA.
Quote from: MX793 on June 01, 2020, 10:54:13 AM
Challies are huge. They are also the cheapest V8 ponycar and Chrysler tends to have the best finance deals.
They are literally only like 5 inches longer than an Odyssey, wheelbase is almost the same. I rode in one last year and felt more cramped in the front passenger side than my Miata. Such a waste of metal.
The point of a Challenger and all its wasted metal is they look cool. They actually look like 60s/70s muscle cars. There's plenty of room in the front for adults. For short trips, the backseat is OK for normal sized adults (assuming they're lithe enough to squeeze back there through the coupe front doors).
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 01, 2020, 02:20:13 PM
They are literally only like 5 inches longer than an Odyssey, wheelbase is almost the same. I rode in one last year and felt more cramped in the front passenger side than my Miata. Such a waste of metal.
I'm not sure I'd call them cramped. The center console is large, but I always found them to have plenty of head, leg and shoulder room. At least in the front seat. Never sat in the back, but I assume the back seat is roomier than my car's. The high sides and gun-slit windows, along with a generally dark interior color scheme, does make the interior "feel" smaller than it is. My Mustang definitely feels "airier" inside because there's more glass, but the Challenger actually has more interior space if you took a tape measure to it.
Quote from: veeman on June 01, 2020, 11:57:39 AM
Didn't you spend an entire thread in the not too distant past saying the Challenger is not a pony car because it's too big for that classification?
:lol:
I was going to put "muscle car", but it's primary competitors aren't necessarily muscle cars. It's a cheaper way into a V8 coupe than either of the pony cars from Ford or GM.
Quote from: MX793 on June 01, 2020, 04:16:13 PM
I was going to put "muscle car", but it's primary competitors aren't necessarily muscle cars. It's a cheaper way into a V8 coupe than either of the pony cars from Ford or GM.
The mid-sixties ('65) Dodge Dart "Charger" was likely the closet thing that Chrysler had to a pony car.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 01, 2020, 04:36:23 PM
The mid-sixties ('65) Dodge Dart "Charger" was likely the closet thing that Chrysler had to a pony car.
Barracuda was a Pony Car. Actually pre-dated the Mustang by almost a year, but the Mustang was the one that "defined" the segment, hence why we call them pony cars and not... fish cars?
Ok, so maybe we also call them pony instead of fish because the former simply sounds much better.
And the Mustang was developed to fight the Corvair Monza, which was later retconned as a pony car even though it came first.
Quote from: MX793 on June 01, 2020, 06:12:04 PM
Barracuda was a Pony Car. Actually pre-dated the Mustang by almost a year, but the Mustang was the one that "defined" the segment, hence why we call them pony cars and not... fish cars?
Ok, so maybe we also call them pony instead of fish because the former simply sounds much better.
And the Mustang was developed to fight the Corvair Monza, which was later retconned as a pony car even though it came first.
The Mustang defined the pony car, so anything predating it could never be a pony car. The would like calling a Falcon a pony car.
Yes, a Barracuda would be a fish car. Very fishy.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 01, 2020, 06:16:30 PM
The Mustang defined the pony car, so anything predating it could never be a pony car. The would like calling a Falcon a pony car.
Yes, a Barracuda would be a fish car. Very fishy.
Falcon and Mustang were built at the same time. The Falcon was never considered a pony car. The Corvair Monza of the later 60s was considered a Mustang competitor and it got lumped with the pony cars. Lack of a V8 meant it really only competed with the secretary trim Mustangs, though.
Quote from: MX793 on June 01, 2020, 06:20:41 PM
Falcon and Mustang were built at the same time. The Falcon was never considered a pony car. The Corvair Monza of the later 60s was considered a Mustang competitor and it got lumped with the pony cars. Lack of a V8 meant it really only competed with the secretary trim Mustangs, though.
The Mustang, of course, was initially built on the Falcon platform/frame/chassis. The Corvair, Monza or not, at the time, was never considered in the same category/breath as a Mustang, or any of the so-called pony cars. After '67, pony cars essentially evolved into muscle cars when they started dropping in big blocks.
That's how I remember it. I had a '66 Mustang, beautiful little car and a '70 Mach I, 351 Cleveland. No comparison. No one I ever knew considered a Corvair in the same category.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 01, 2020, 06:29:30 PM
The Mustang, of course, was initially built on the Falcon platform/frame/chassis. The Corvair, Monza or not, at the time, was never considered in the same category/breath as a Mustang, or any of the so-called pony cars. After '67, pony cars essentially evolved into muscle cars when they started dropping in big blocks.
That's how I remember it. I had a '66 Mustang, beautiful little car and a '70 Mach I, 351 Cleveland. No comparison. No one I ever knew considered a Corvair in the same category.
Chevy seemed to think it was. The '65 restyle, particularly the Monza coupe, was aimed squarely at the Mustang. Lack of a V8 meant consumers didn't really take it seriously as a Mustang competitor. Queue the Camaro/Firebird in '67.
Quote from: MX793 on June 01, 2020, 06:35:06 PM
Chevy seemed to think it was. The '65 restyle, particularly the Monza coupe, was aimed squarely at the Mustang. Lack of a V8 meant consumers didn't really take it seriously as a Mustang competitor. Queue the Camaro/Firebird in '67.
If Chevy thought it was, they were the only ones. Nobody on the street did, likely even Corvair owners. If anything, it was a Falcon competitor. Falcon was Ford's attempt at an 'economy' car. The Corvair was Chevy's attempt.
Quote from: veeman on June 01, 2020, 11:57:39 AM
Didn't you spend an entire thread in the not too distant past saying the Challenger is not a pony car because it's too big for that classification?
:lol:
I think that you should buff up and get yourself a Boss. It'll make your trip to work and back the most fun you've had in your life. :lol:
My problem with modern Challengers is the slab sides, wheel gap, and any tire skinnier than a 295+ make the car look like a rental car
Quote from: veeman on June 01, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
The point of a Challenger and all its wasted metal is they look cool. They actually look like 60s/70s muscle cars. There's plenty of room in the front for adults. For short trips, the backseat is OK for normal sized adults (assuming they're lithe enough to squeeze back there through the coupe front doors).
Oh I get the "point" but it's is seriously seriously loserville.
Quote from: MX793 on June 01, 2020, 04:14:41 PM
I'm not sure I'd call them cramped. The center console is large, but I always found them to have plenty of head, leg and shoulder room. At least in the front seat.
I had plenty of room for my short ride but it "felt" like I had less space than a Miata.
Seriously this car might be fairly ok in a straight line but is far less functional for anything else than most other vehicles.
To me, it's a serious waste.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 02, 2020, 06:49:13 AM
Oh I get the "point" but it's is seriously seriously loserville.
I had plenty of room for my short ride but it "felt" like I had less space than a Miata.
Seriously this car might be fairly ok in a straight line but is far less functional for anything else than most other vehicles. To me, it's a serious waste.
I pulled the specs and the Chally is significantly bigger inside than an NB (top up) in every dimension but leg room. Miata actually has about 3/4 of an inch more max legroom (which you probably won't notice if average height and you set the seat a comfortable distance from the dash). Headroom advantage for the Dodge was over an inch, hip and shoulder was like 4-5 inches. I think it's just perception because of the tall sides, small windows, and dark interior. It definitely feels cave-like. But I've been in NAs and NBs and I would not say the Dodge is more cramped. You're rubbing elbows with the passenger in a Miata whereas you'd have to reach to touch the shoulder of the passenger in a Chally.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 01, 2020, 10:29:13 PM
My problem with modern Challengers is the slab sides, wheel gap, and any tire skinnier than a 295+ make the car look like a rental car
Even though the Mustang and the Challenger are both "retro-modern," the Mustang seems genuine to me and the Challenger seems like its wearing a costume.
It may be because I find the original Challengers so much more appealing than the early '70s Mustangs.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 02, 2020, 08:14:29 AM
Even though the Mustang and the Challenger are both "retro-modern," the Mustang seems genuine to me and the Challenger seems like its wearing a costume.
It may be because I find the original Challengers so much more appealing than the early '70s Mustangs.
The '71-'73 Mustangs were kinda hard to love. They deviated enough from the design to make it look fat and clumsy. Of course, the engines were getting strangled by the anti-pollution devices of the time as well.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 02, 2020, 08:14:29 AM
Even though the Mustang and the Challenger are both "retro-modern," the Mustang seems genuine to me and the Challenger seems like its wearing a costume.
It may be because I find the original Challengers so much more appealing than the early '70s Mustangs.
I can honestly say I'm not really a fan of Mustangs from model years 1971 through 1993. I guess I can kind of see some appeal in the sleeper vibe of the Fox cars, but they've always looked too much like Tempos to me.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 02, 2020, 08:14:29 AM
Even though the Mustang and the Challenger are both "retro-modern," the Mustang seems genuine to me and the Challenger seems like its wearing a costume.
It may be because I find the original Challengers so much more appealing than the early '70s Mustangs.
Yeah, if you look at an original Challenger and a new one, you see all the flaws with the new one.
The Hellcats and Demons look good but that's a lot of money to pay just to fix the styling. :lol:
Quote from: MX793 on June 02, 2020, 07:37:26 AM
I pulled the specs and the Chally is significantly bigger inside than an NB (top up) in every dimension but leg room. Miata actually has about 3/4 of an inch more max legroom (which you probably won't notice if average height and you set the seat a comfortable distance from the dash). Headroom advantage for the Dodge was over an inch, hip and shoulder was like 4-5 inches. I think it's just perception because of the tall sides, small windows, and dark interior. It definitely feels cave-like. But I've been in NAs and NBs and I would not say the Dodge is more cramped. You're rubbing elbows with the passenger in a Miata whereas you'd have to reach to touch the shoulder of the passenger in a Chally.
No doubt.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 29, 2020, 11:24:29 AM
I get excited if I see a Grand Am where the taillights work.
I LOL'd
If I see a vehicle with a brake light out, it's pretty well always GM.
FWIW my accountant's rule of thumb for his clients is 10 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 06, 2020, 02:49:41 PM
I LOL'd
If I see a vehicle with a brake light out, it's pretty well always GM.
Glad I'm not the only one to notice. Burned out DRLs, too.
For a while I saw tons of <1 year old Hyundais/Kias with burnt out taillights
I'm assuming, especially for non HID and LED lights, all of the auto manufacturers use pretty much the same sort of bulbs for their headlights, taillights, brakelights, daytime running lights, blinkers, high beams, etc. It must be something about the lens or housing that maybe let's in more moisture in certain brands.
Quote from: veeman on June 07, 2020, 02:40:59 PM
I'm assuming, especially for non HID and LED lights, all of the auto manufacturers use pretty much the same sort of bulbs for their headlights, taillights, brakelights, daytime running lights, blinkers, high beams, etc. It must be something about the lens or housing that maybe let's in more moisture in certain brands.
A lot of cheaper cars don't use LED tail lamps. And back when Pontiac was still a thing, LED tail lamps weren't super widely used outside of luxury cars.
Yeah, that's what I mean. Most cars use the same kind of bulbs especially when they're not using HID headlights or LED lights. So the ones that are apt to burn out early seem to be a housing issue surrounding the bulb. Just my guess.
Quote from: veeman on June 07, 2020, 04:11:06 PM
Yeah, that's what I mean. Most cars use the same kind of bulbs especially when they're not using HID headlights or LED lights. So the ones that are apt to burn out early seem to be a housing issue surrounding the bulb. Just my guess.
They use standard form factors. That doesn't mean they all use the same bulb. An H7 bulb from Sylvania might last longer than the one from Dirt Cheap Lightbulbs Inc.
Also could have been something with the housings or wiring.
Quote from: veeman on June 07, 2020, 04:11:06 PM
Yeah, that's what I mean. Most cars use the same kind of bulbs especially when they're not using HID headlights or LED lights. So the ones that are apt to burn out early seem to be a housing issue surrounding the bulb. Just my guess.
With the Grand Ams specifically, its the way the housings are made, and they use thin metal ribbons as conductors inside the tail lights that are supposed to be pressed together by the plastic.