I was hoping it was just ice/snow on a wheel, but Odyssey has some pretty massive steering wheel shimmy. Starts at 5mph, most pronounced at 25mph, but continues all the way up to our recent top speed of 70mph. Tires don't seem to be wearing out funny.
I think it began when we took it in to Firestone to check the brakes (really bad squeak) a couple months ago.
They offered a "free inspection" and recommended billion$ in work. And said the rear roters/pads needed changed. I changed those myself and rechecked the lugs were tight. https://www.carspin.club/index.php?topic=34265.0
What should I check or start with to figure out what this issue is?
Needs a front end alignment or tire rebalance?
Bushings
Quote from: Laconian on February 03, 2018, 01:50:33 PM
Needs a front end alignment or tire rebalance?
I think those are good. It was all done last year and see below VV
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 03, 2018, 02:15:37 PM
Bushings
That's one thing Firestone said we needed, but I don't remember which ones, I'll have to look at the paperwork.
What bugs me is the van was NOT shimmying like this before Firestone "looked at it". We have a lifetime alignment with them. And I heard the one on-base here closed down. So we'll have to travel off-post for any future alignments.
Chances are they "mistakenly" knocked off a couple of wheel weights.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 03, 2018, 08:06:23 PM
Chances are they "mistakenly" knocked off a couple of wheel weights.
Can't say I've ever encountered a wheel imbalance that becomes noticeable at such a low speed if wheel imbalance is the only issue (bent rim or other contributing factors notwithstanding). They also tend to have a more narrow range of symptomatic speeds rather than getting continually worse as speeds rise. I had a tire shop "forget" to balance a set of tires and didn't even know until the next day when I hit the highway and got up to 45-50 mph. On the 30-35 mph roads between home and the shop, it felt perfectly smooth. And at speeds above 60 or so, it also smoothed out.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 03, 2018, 04:51:14 PM
I think those are good. It was all done last year and see below VV
That's one thing Firestone said we needed, but I don't remember which ones, I'll have to look at the paperwork.
What bugs me is the van was NOT shimmying like this before Firestone "looked at it". We have a lifetime alignment with them. And I heard the one on-base here closed down. So we'll have to travel off-post for any future alignments.
Perhaps when they got it up on the lift and the suspension had a chance to fully droop, it put the last nail in the coffin for whatever wear part needs replacing.
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 04, 2018, 08:46:54 AM
Perhaps when they got it up on the lift and the suspension had a chance to fully droop, it put the last nail in the coffin for whatever wear part needs replacing.
Could be, but I've had it on the lift without problems. :huh:
Or it was bad when they looked at it and now it's gotten worse. Doesn't it have 200k+ miles?
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 04, 2018, 08:46:54 AM
Perhaps when they got it up on the lift and the suspension had a chance to fully droop, it put the last nail in the coffin for whatever wear part needs replacing.
Or when tugging on parts to check for play...
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 04, 2018, 09:06:31 AM
Could be, but I've had it on the lift without problems. :huh:
Fair enough. But the next place you take it is probably going to tell you the same things as far as replacing worn parts. Then you're back to square one, frustrated and shimmying. :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 04, 2018, 09:29:04 AM
Fair enough. But the next place you take it is probably going to tell you the same things as far as replacing worn parts. Then you're back to square one, frustrated and shimmying. :lol:
yeah yeah. :) I was just asking them to look at the brake squeaking and they said "the inspection is free!"
Quote from: MX793 on February 04, 2018, 09:28:50 AM
Or when tugging on parts to check for play...
definite possibility.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 04, 2018, 09:25:50 AM
Or it was bad when they looked at it and now it's gotten worse. Doesn't it have 200k+ miles?
It always had a little, but that has never bothered me, all my cars are old and probably needed suspension replacements. :confused: I'm pretty sure it got drastically worse after Firestone looked at it. Not saying it doesn't need work, just wondering where to start. Don't feel like dumping a lot of money into it.
Odyssey has 217k now, bought in Feb 2015 with 168k.
Without getting involved in a pissing match about who's fault it is :lol: my professional advice would be that if you aren't will to drop serious cash on this heap, it's time to visit Carmax.
Another factor is that the copious amounts of salt (and, to a lesser degree, sand) used over the long Northeastern winters take a serious toll on cars. They easily age twice as fast here than elsewhere. Can cause issues that normally might develop more gradually to seem to develop much more suddenly. A former coworker kept fastidious records of his car repairs and expenses (he had a Honda Accord that he kept for something like 15 years before finally replacing with another new Accord) once told me that starting around year 8, his corrosion-related repair expenses started to appear and continued to grow until his primary expense was fighting off corrosion. There's a reason you don't see a lot of cars much over 12 years old around here, and those that you do see look like they could fall apart at a moment's notice (or they were imports from warmer climes if they don't look that rough).
Quote from: MX793 on February 04, 2018, 10:41:27 AM
Another factor is that the copious amounts of salt (and, to a lesser degree, sand) used over the long Northeastern winters take a serious toll on cars. They easily age twice as fast here than elsewhere. Can cause issues that normally might develop more gradually to seem to develop much more suddenly. A former coworker kept fastidious records of his car repairs and expenses (he had a Honda Accord that he kept for something like 15 years before finally replacing with another new Accord) once told me that starting around year 8, his corrosion-related repair expenses started to appear and continued to grow until his primary expense was fighting off corrosion. There's a reason you don't see a lot of cars much over 12 years old around here, and those that you do see look like they could fall apart at a moment's notice (or they were imports from warmer climes if they don't look that rough).
Totally. This van was rustfree (from SC) until 4 months of winter here in NY, rust started on the bottom of the back door.
Quote from: shp4man on February 04, 2018, 10:22:17 AM
Without getting involved in a pissing match about who's fault it is :lol: my professional advice would be that if you aren't will to drop serious cash on this heap, it's time to visit Carmax.
Carmax is not where I buy cars- their overhead and whatnot add a lot to the purchase price without adding any value.
safety inspection expires tomorrow, finally took it in.
Passed inspection.
-Sway bar link bushings are GONE. $35 each, I can do those easy.
-rear wiper blade
-oil leak, says the valve cover gasket needs replaced.
-serpentine belt is cracked
-terminals on the battery are loose and don't tighten, need replacement.
The shop (not firestone) wanted ~$1000 to do that. $580 of that is the valve cover.
Said the shimmy is because the front tires "have a hop to them". He offered to rebalance and move to the rear, they have 5/32 left. I need to look up at home when we bought them- we got road hazard at Firestone. Rears have 9/32 so worse case I swap them out.
I need to rotate the tires more often...! BUT a lot of that wear is from this winter- when you lightly push the gas and the tires spin they'll wear out even on snow/ice I assume..
Sounds like a belt shifted in a tire.
This all sounds like normal wear and tear on an older car.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 27, 2018, 01:50:42 PM
Sounds like a belt shifted in a tire.
This all sounds like normal wear and tear on an older car.
yeah, honestly besides brakes, tires, and oil, I can't remember any other maintenance since I bought it in 2015. (50k miles ago!)
Quote from: MX793 on February 04, 2018, 10:41:27 AM
Another factor is that the copious amounts of salt (and, to a lesser degree, sand) used over the long Northeastern winters take a serious toll on cars. They easily age twice as fast here than elsewhere. Can cause issues that normally might develop more gradually to seem to develop much more suddenly. A former coworker kept fastidious records of his car repairs and expenses (he had a Honda Accord that he kept for something like 15 years before finally replacing with another new Accord) once told me that starting around year 8, his corrosion-related repair expenses started to appear and continued to grow until his primary expense was fighting off corrosion. There's a reason you don't see a lot of cars much over 12 years old around here, and those that you do see look like they could fall apart at a moment's notice (or they were imports from warmer climes if they don't look that rough).
Was it a 1990 Accord?
Because no modern car that isn't a Mazda should stsrt rusting out that early.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 27, 2018, 02:41:17 PM
Was it a 1990 Accord?
Because no modern car that isn't a Mazda should stsrt rusting out that early.
It was a later 90s Accord. And I don't know what he meant when he said "corrosion related". May have been some minor stuff like a parking brake cable at first. That said, you see rust forming very early on cars here. I think we use more salt on the roads here than anywhere else in the lower 48. Not just rock salt, either. And since there's precipitation 2 out of every 3 days during the winter months, the roads are pretty much constantly wet, so cars are in a near constant brine spray for 4-5 months of the year. Another coworker had a first generation Fit ('07 I think) and I remember him telling me a couple of years ago that the rear hatch latch on the outside had completed rotted out (car was maybe 9 years old) and I think he may have had to replace the whole rear hatch. Had some other corrosion issues, too. Another coworker bought an early US WRX ('02 or '03 I think) back in 2013, so the car was 10 or 11 years old. Had some visible rust on the fenders and the fuel filler area was pretty rotten. Radiator ruptured within the first month of ownership due to corrosion. Followed by the fuel tank splitting a seam about a month later. First shop he took it to to have the fuel tank replaced refused to do the work because when they looked underneath, the rust was so bad they were concerned they'd end up breaking everything they had to remove to get the tank out. He got it fixed eventually, but was told it was too rotten to pass NYS inspection. He ended up unloading it to somebody out of state.
Quote from: MX793 on February 27, 2018, 07:30:01 PM
It was a later 90s Accord. And I don't know what he meant when he said "corrosion related". May have been some minor stuff like a parking brake cable at first. That said, you see rust forming very early on cars here. I think we use more salt on the roads here than anywhere else in the lower 48. Not just rock salt, either. And since there's precipitation 2 out of every 3 days during the winter months, the roads are pretty much constantly wet, so cars are in a near constant brine spray for 4-5 months of the year. Another coworker had a first generation Fit ('07 I think) and I remember him telling me a couple of years ago that the rear hatch latch on the outside had completed rotted out (car was maybe 9 years old) and I think he may have had to replace the whole rear hatch. Had some other corrosion issues, too. Another coworker bought an early US WRX ('02 or '03 I think) back in 2013, so the car was 10 or 11 years old. Had some visible rust on the fenders and the fuel filler area was pretty rotten. Radiator ruptured within the first month of ownership due to corrosion. Followed by the fuel tank splitting a seam about a month later. First shop he took it to to have the fuel tank replaced refused to do the work because when they looked underneath, the rust was so bad they were concerned they'd end up breaking everything they had to remove to get the tank out. He got it fixed eventually, but was told it was too rotten to pass NYS inspection. He ended up unloading it to somebody out of state.
Ehh, some shops are used to dealing with rust, some aren't. It makes things a pain in the ass, so I can understand.
Still, I'd call those the exceptions. I doubt NY uses much more salt than MI.
Newer cars have gotten much better about everything corrosion wise.
Wouldn't call those outliers, as I've got lots of stories of friends, coworkers and family with other corrosion-related problems in cars ~10 years old. A guy I autoX with blew his brake lines on a 2004 Mini Cooper at an event a few years back. 10 year old car and the brake lines had rotted out.
It's not just the salt, it's that the roads are so frequently wet AND salty. Constant salt spray, wet and dry cycles (car gets sprayed while you drive, then dries out in the parking lot, then gets sprayed again, then dries in the garage/driveway) wreaks havoc. They salt from November through April and it rains and/or snows 2 days out of 3 in those months. Last season, from November '16-April '17, there was observed precipitation on 132 days (out of 181), measurable quantities for 111 of those. We get considerably more and more frequent precipitation than the lower part of Michigan. Colder temperatures in the UP mean that the roads stay snowy rather than being wet asphalt.
Prior to ending up with the Jetta, I was perusing the local used car superstore and the amount of rust I saw on cars that were less than 10 years old was surprising to me. Some of it could be attributed to paint damage that was left unrepaired (bad chips or scrapes), but a lot wasn't. And for whatever is showing on the body, the underbody is usually much worse.
The main highways and county roads here are heavily salted. Main city veins are also heavily treated. Other than that, yeah, in my small town things are just plowed and remain hardpack unless it warms up. My street is a fuckin' mess right now with the warmth we've been having. Although it is generally colder, we still get a fair number of freeze-thaws and they salt a lot, so wet/salty roads are generally the norm in the winter.
https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/marquette/michigan/united-states/usmi0525/2016/2
Marquette is generally a couple-few degrees warmer and less snowy than me 10 miles upland, but. 97% of people here touch US-41 or a county road to get to/from work...they're always salty as frig.
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 27, 2018, 08:49:30 PM
The main highways and county roads here are heavily salted. Main city veins are also heavily treated. Other than that, yeah, in my small town things are just plowed and remain hardpack unless it warms up. My street is a fuckin' mess right now with the warmth we've been having. Although it is generally colder, we still get a fair number of freeze-thaws and they salt a lot, so wet/salty roads are generally the norm in the winter.
https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/marquette/michigan/united-states/usmi0525/2016/2
Marquette is generally a couple-few degrees warmer and less snowy than me 10 miles upland, but. 97% of people here touch US-41 or a county road to get to/from work...they're always salty as frig.
We average 20 more days of measurable precipitation than Marquette per year, November-April (25% more). And our average high temperature for the 3 coldest months of the year is low 30s (above freezing) vs high 20s for Marquette. In terms of typical temperatures, we're very similar to Detroit. In terms of amount of snow, we're comparable to Marquette. In terms of number of precipitation days, think Seattle (actually, annually we have significantly more precipitation days than Seattle because we don't have a dry season, we have rainy season and snowy season). All of the streets are wet or slushy and heavily salted, not just the main thoroughfares (though those are extra salty). If we get a cold snap, you might have a week or so when you're driving on a thin snowpack instead of wet and slush, but that's not the norm.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 27, 2018, 02:41:17 PM
Was it a 1990 Accord?
Because no modern car that isn't a Mazda should stsrt rusting out that early.
Also Hyundai. I think they're fine now though regarding rust.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 27, 2018, 01:40:48 PM
safety inspection expires tomorrow, finally took it in.
Passed inspection.
-Sway bar link bushings are GONE. $35 each, I can do those easy.
-rear wiper blade
-oil leak, says the valve cover gasket needs replaced.
-serpentine belt is cracked
-terminals on the battery are loose and don't tighten, need replacement.
The shop (not firestone) wanted ~$1000 to do that. $580 of that is the valve cover.
Said the shimmy is because the front tires "have a hop to them". He offered to rebalance and move to the rear, they have 5/32 left. I need to look up at home when we bought them- we got road hazard at Firestone. Rears have 9/32 so worse case I swap them out.
I need to rotate the tires more often...! BUT a lot of that wear is from this winter- when you lightly push the gas and the tires spin they'll wear out even on snow/ice I assume..
Does the Odyssey have the 3.0 V6? If it's the rearward valve cover, there's a reason why it's $580 to replace the cover gasket.
Quote from: Rockraven on February 28, 2018, 11:29:20 AM
Does the Odyssey have the 3.0 V6? If it's the rearward valve cover, there's a reason why it's $580 to replace the cover gasket.
3.5L V6 but yeah, it's a serious PITA to get anything done on these motors. Everything is crammed in there so tight you have to remove 50 things to get enough space to do the real work..
They wanted $1000 to do everything but I could do all of it but the valve cover gasket. She laughed because she said that's the most expensive part :lol:
If the bulk of the work/cost is getting the gasket done, I'd just foot the bill and have them do everything else as well so you don't have to worry about it. If you want to do it yourself, absolutely go for it, but sometimes it's just nice to let the pros kill a few birds with one stone and have it over with.
Replacing the rear drum brakes on my son's Pontiac G5 was a bitch. The shop wanted $260 to do them, but I decided I could save money by doing it myself. Buying the parts and cleaner to do it was over $100 as it was, but the hours of swearing at seized parts and thumb-stabbing springs convinced me to never tackle that job again. Some things are worth just having the shop do them.
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 28, 2018, 12:46:20 PM
If the bulk of the work/cost is getting the gasket done, I'd just foot the bill and have them do everything else as well so you don't have to worry about it. If you want to do it yourself, absolutely go for it, but sometimes it's just nice to let the pros kill a few birds with one stone and have it over with.
Quote from: Rockraven on February 28, 2018, 12:58:56 PM
Some things are worth just having the shop do them.
Totally agree.
I started wrenching when I was super-broke and they wanted $110 to replace a CV boot on the SHO when I first bought it. Part was $10. Half a day later.....
I later tried to do engine internal junk and that's part of what killed the SHO on the Autobahn. :cry:
I can do brakes and simple stuff, it's amazing how different some vehicles are from each other. My 1999 caravan to install a trailer hitch meant removing the bumper cover, drilling holes, fishing a nut through the frame with a wire, and tightening the bolt holding the hitch to that nut.
On my 2003 Honda and 2004 Toyota minivans though, you just move the muffler out of the way, and bolt the hitch to the pre-tapped holes in the frame.
Yeah you probably have to drop that motor slightly to get it