I'm a clutch-nazi; that is, I'm always overly concerned with the health of my transmission and giving it the least punishment possible. I've heard that most BMW clutches are supposed to last the life of the car.
-Are 0-60 runs featuring hard and quick shifting with tires chirping going to significantly shorten the life of my clutch?
Is there an easy way to evaluate how my clutch is holding up?
If it engages fine and doesn't slip it's fine. I wouldn't worry about it. Clutches are fairly easy to replace anyway on a RWD car.
Based on the experience of my friends with fast turbo Zs run at the dragstrip, the thing that hurts the most in that kind of driving is the driveline. Stub axles, transmissions, etc.
I don't really worry myself with clutch-wear, or tires for that matter. The way I see it, the sooner they go the more fun you had.
Clutches these days are pretty tough. If you know how to drive a stick properly (as you do, I'm sure), it will last a long time. Things like riding the clutch, not disengaging it all the way at stoplights, and constant redline clutch drop launches are going to wear it out quickly, but I wouldn't worry too much about regular spirited driving.
My Ford Ranger had over 160K miles on the original clutch when I traded, and I beat the living crap out of that truck. Likewise, my Civic has 116K miles on the original clutch (with the last 55K miles from me), and I drive that car in a spirited fashion all the time.
You are probably fine, but I understand the anal retetentiveness, I have that same problem with things.
The Click and Clack method of clutch evaluation (I've heard this elsewhere too):
Ease up to the side of a building, a tree or some other immovable object. Use padding between your front bumper and the immovable object if you are worrying about marring your bumper. Start the car and rev the ending to about 1200-1500 RPM while easing out the clutch. If the engine stalls your clutch is OK. If the engine slows but still runs you have a slipping clutch.
We've got a '96 Accord in the family with WELL over 230k (odo stopped a coupla years ago there) on the clock.
My Subie has over 190k.
Both are original clutches. The Honda saw my bro an I learn to drive stick on it, and I dont treat my Subie too responsibly sometimes.
I'd not worry.
Yeah, I've taught 4 or 5 people how to drive stick on my car, and the clutch still grabs high and doesn't slip at all.
Quote from: J86 on March 06, 2007, 11:51:58 AM
We've got a '96 Accord in the family with WELL over 230k (odo stopped a coupla years ago there) on the clock.
My Subie has over 190k.
Both are original clutches.? The Honda saw my bro an I learn to drive stick on it, and I dont treat my Subie too responsibly sometimes.
I'd not worry.
Does/did something in the suspension on the Accord ever start making a kind of "hurka-hurka" creaking noise over speed bumps? I can't tell if it's that or my replaced fender rubbing against the edge of the hood :P
Quote from: etypeJohn on March 06, 2007, 11:09:13 AM
The Click and Clack method of clutch evaluation (I've heard this elsewhere too):
Ease up to the side of a building, a tree or some other immovable object.? Use padding between your front bumper and the immovable object if you are worrying about marring your bumper.? Start the car and rev the ending to about 1200-1500 RPM while easing out the clutch.? If the engine stalls your clutch is OK.? If the engine slows but still runs you have a slipping clutch.
Yikes....
My preferred ( and somewhat less-redneck style) method is to just floor the throttle in 3rd gear while going up a decent hill. That'll usually make a bad clutch known.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on March 06, 2007, 02:24:44 PM
Does/did something in the suspension on the Accord ever start making a kind of "hurka-hurka" creaking noise over speed bumps? I can't tell if it's that or my replaced fender rubbing against the edge of the hood :P
What year and how many miles is your Accord?
Depending if the miles are high or not, it could be bushings in the suspension system.
Quote from: The Pirate on March 06, 2007, 04:15:17 PM
What year and how many miles is your Accord?
Depending if the miles are high or not, it could be bushings in the suspension system.?
97 and a whole lot.
Quote from: Pancor on March 06, 2007, 04:10:47 PM
Yikes....
My preferred ( and somewhat less-redneck style) method is to just floor the throttle in 3rd gear while going up a decent hill.? ?That'll usually make a bad clutch known.? ?
That is how I would do it too, although I see the merits in the Car Guys' approach.
I've done this accidentally, and it's a sure way to check your clutch: When stationary, let the clutch out while the car is running and in gear. When I did it, I thought it was in neutral, and never bothered to check before I let the clutch out.
And what is supposed to happen?
Quote from: TBR on March 07, 2007, 08:22:31 PM
And what is supposed to happen?
The engine should stall if you let the clutch out in gear without raising rpm.
Yeah, thanks for the additional info R-inge. I must have been in a hurry, as I apparently left that sentence out of my original post.
Quote from: R-inge on March 07, 2007, 08:23:15 PM
The engine should stall if you let the clutch out in gear without raising rpm.
Not if you have 400ft-lbs of torque at 500rpms :lol:
Quote from: NACar on March 07, 2007, 08:26:48 PM
Not if you have 400ft-lbs of torque at 500rpms :lol:
I don't have that problem, unfortunately.
Quote from: NACar on March 07, 2007, 08:26:48 PM
Not if you have 400ft-lbs of torque at 500rpms :lol:
True, with some cars if you just let off gradually you can effectively start out at idle. However, if you drop the clutch suddenly I am pretty sure it would be the same result. (not totally sure though lol)
Quote from: NACar on March 07, 2007, 08:26:48 PM
Not if you have 400ft-lbs of torque at 500rpms :lol:
If you let off on the clutch easy enough, you can get any car to move without touching the gas pedal.
Depends on alot of things... weight of car, rotating mass, gear ratios, idle speed, blah blah blah...
My car will get going without any gas with a really slow clutch let out.
Quote from: NACar on March 07, 2007, 08:37:06 PM
Depends on alot of things... weight of car, rotating mass, gear ratios, idle speed, blah blah blah...
I've done it on a type-2 VW bus with all of 25 HP; just to prove this point. If you could find one, I'd do it again.
I can do it quite easily in my car.
Quote from: R-inge on March 07, 2007, 08:23:15 PM
The engine should stall if you let the clutch out in gear without raising rpm.
My Jaguar won't. On a level surfact it will just start moving. 265 HP and 283 pound feets of torque coupled to a flywheel that weighs about 20 pounds does that for you.
Quote from: etypeJohn on March 06, 2007, 11:09:13 AM
The Click and Clack method of clutch evaluation (I've heard this elsewhere too):
Ease up to the side of a building, a tree or some other immovable object.? Use padding between your front bumper and the immovable object if you are worrying about marring your bumper.? Start the car and rev the ending to about 1200-1500 RPM while easing out the clutch.? If the engine stalls your clutch is OK.? If the engine slows but still runs you have a slipping clutch.
Is there a preferred gear to use when doing this test??
Quote from: The Pirate on March 07, 2007, 08:28:22 PM
I don't have that problem, unfortunately.
Get a GTO! 20mph without ever touching the gas.
Quote from: R-inge on March 07, 2007, 08:23:15 PM
The engine should stall if you let the clutch out in gear without raising rpm.
I can side step the clutch on in my mustang on dry pavement, and it won't stall.
As for the original question, my opinion on cluthces is they are one of those things that ware out, just like brake pads. Not a big deal.
Quote from: Ron From Regina on March 08, 2007, 01:41:34 PM
As for the original question, my opinion on cluthces is they are one of those things that ware out, just like brake pads. Not a big deal.
Unless it's an old Ford FWD. :banghead: :lockedup:
(Took me a long time and lots of sweat to fix that problem.)
(ps- Maybe I'm the only one on the board to have driven the Autobahn with a broken clutch??)
Quote from: Raza on March 08, 2007, 12:05:36 PM
Get a GTO! 20mph without ever touching the gas.
I've done that in my car.
Quote from: R-inge on March 07, 2007, 08:23:15 PM
The engine should stall if you let the clutch out in gear without raising rpm.
So let it out like you would normally? Both the Prelude and the Outback will go without gas if you let the clutch out slow enough.
No, let it out quickly. It should grab, lurch and stall. If not, there is a problem.
So basically if you ever stall you're still good?
Basically, yes. If the car will stall, it essentially means that clutch is still grabbing. A clutch that is close to on it's way out would cruise ahead smoothly in that scenario, due to it slipping.
There are other factors as well, but a grabbing clutch is generally still in good shape.
How about, if your clutch works fine, then don't worry about it?
Okay, then my clutch is definitely good :P (not that I stall all the time, but I do have those days).
Quote from: NACar on March 08, 2007, 10:08:52 PM
How about, if your clutch works fine, then don't worry about it?
That's my philosophy.
Quote from: Raza on March 08, 2007, 09:13:25 PM
On level ground?
Yes. Might not have quite been 20, I didn't have a huge run of space. Definately in the teens. I'll have to find a big level parking lot and try for 20 mph without touching the gas pedal.
My brother truck goes 30+ when idling, it's ridiculous (302 with 4AT).
I'll have to see how fast the Accord goes when it's idling...
Quote from: The Pirate on March 06, 2007, 06:08:13 PM
I've done this accidentally, and it's a sure way to check your clutch:? When stationary, let the clutch out while the car is running and in gear.? When I did it, I thought it was in neutral, and never bothered to check before I let the clutch out.
You'll still stall, even with a bad clutch. Also, if I let it out slowly, the car won't likely stall, it'll roll, partially because of the delay valve.
Like Faris said, even with a moderately worn clutch you might still stall if you just pop it.? I recommend Pancor's method of loading it in 3rd or 4th gear on a hill.? If it is very lurchy/jumpy, you likely have a worn out clutch.
Quote from: 850CSi on March 10, 2007, 10:26:28 PM
You'll still stall, even with a bad clutch. Also, if I let it out slowly, the car won't likely stall, it'll roll, partially because of the delay valve.
Yeah, but with a bad clutch it doesn't lurch and buck. I didn't clarify this in my original post (actually, the whole post was rather vague). I've done this in a car with a bad clutch, and it stalls, but it's a rather smooth, creamy stall. With a good clutch, it will lunge your car into the rear of the car parked ahead of you. :devil:
Quote from: The Pirate on March 10, 2007, 10:30:01 PM
Yeah, but with a bad clutch it doesn't lurch and buck.? I didn't clarify this in my original post (actually, the whole post was rather vague).? I've done this in a car with a bad clutch, and it stalls, but it's a rather smooth, creamy stall.? With a good clutch, it will lunge your car into the rear of the car parked ahead of you.? :devil:
LOL :lol: "Smooth, creamy stall."
My car bucks like a Bronco when I do something it doesn't like with the clutch.
The reason why I'm asking is this:
It may be just me, but I'm feeling like the clutch is a little lighter than when I bought the car (I like heavy clutches), and it vibrates a little more (ie I can feel more of the engine). I'm a bit obsessive over clutch health.
Your car is relatively low mileage, right? My car has 116K HARD miles, and the clutch still feels great. I would have to believe that a BMW clutch is going to be tougher than a Honda clutch. It is probably a hydraulic clutch, you could try checking the fluid. I wouldn't be too concerned though, the bucking means it's grabbing, and that's a good thing. As far as being lighter, your clutch leg probably got stronger.
If it self-grenades and blows all kinds of driveline parts all over Route 41, then you can worry. :lol:
I saw how fast the Accord goes when it idles... The speedo didn't even move. :banghead: :lol:
Quote from: The Pirate on March 10, 2007, 10:53:43 PM
Your car is relatively low mileage, right?? My car has 116K HARD miles, and the clutch still feels great.? I would have to believe that a BMW clutch is going to be tougher than a Honda clutch.? It is probably a hydraulic clutch, you could try checking the fluid.? I wouldn't be too concerned though, the bucking means it's grabbing, and that's a good thing.? As far as being lighter, your clutch leg probably got stronger.?
It could defenitely be that, I was still rehabbing after knee reconstruction when I first started driving my car.
Quote from: R-inge on March 10, 2007, 10:30:57 PM
LOL :lol: "Smooth, creamy stall."
Must have beer on the mind...
Quote from: MX793 on March 08, 2007, 10:28:04 PM
Yes. Might not have quite been 20, I didn't have a huge run of space. Definately in the teens. I'll have to find a big level parking lot and try for 20 mph without touching the gas pedal.
With the clutch all the way out?
Quote from: Raza on March 16, 2007, 09:43:45 PM
With the clutch all the way out?
Yes. I put the car in first and ease the clutch out. Then shift into 2nd once rolling and let the clutch out. Then 3rd, then 4th... Basically run through the gears without touching the gas.
I tried it the other day and got into 4th and the motor was lugging pretty badly. Got up to maybe 13 mph. But the engine was warm, as I had just gotten back from a 50 mile trip, and only idling at like 600 rpm. With the engine cold and idling at 1000 rpm, I think it would go faster.
Quote from: MX793 on March 16, 2007, 09:50:49 PM
Yes. I put the car in first and ease the clutch out. Then shift into 2nd once rolling and let the clutch out. Then 3rd, then 4th... Basically run through the gears without touching the gas.
I tried it the other day and got into 4th and the motor was lugging pretty badly. Got up to maybe 13 mph. But the engine was warm, as I had just gotten back from a 50 mile trip, and only idling at like 600 rpm. With the engine cold and idling at 1000 rpm, I think it would go faster.
I didn't mean
slowly.
Quote from: Raza on March 16, 2007, 09:55:16 PM
I didn't mean slowly.
It doesn't take all that long since I shift once the motor is up to idle in each gear, which barely takes a second.