i just came accross the following article. hope it interests you, too! comments, please :P !
TCC, May 12, 2006: I've got some good news and some bad news, depending on your propensity to break the law.
The good people of America will be glad to know that the ancient Ford Police Interceptor is no longer the only "proper" police car on the market. Pretty soon, police departments will be able to trade in their archaic body-on-frame Fords with their underpowered 250-hp 4.6-liter V-8s for the new Dodge Charger squad car, which is considerably faster, better handling, more efficient, and safer.
For criminally minded individuals, however, this is apocalyptic. It means that the police will be able to respond faster and will be more difficult to outrun on the highway or elude on city streets. When the inevitable occurs, lowlifes will find the rear compartment isn't air-conditioned or heated and it's not awfully comfortable either, especially with a set of cuffs on. The only bright spot for perps is that it should get you to the station faster than ever, and if it happens to be a HEMI-powered model, it'll make a pleasing V-8 rasp along the way.
Woo woo woo woo!
The Charger enters the Cops fray simply because Dodge decided it wants a bigger piece of the 70,000-unit police car market and that wasn't going to happen with the insipid Intrepid. According to Peter Kash, whose job it is to bring the car to police departments for evaluation, the interest in the vehicle is considerable as police officers all over the country are craving a new squad car.
And who can blame them? Not only is the Dodge more modern and technologically advanced than the Ford, it's considerably meaner and more menacing in police drag. I know it really shouldn't matter in a police car, but for some reason you feel less inclined to run from something that looks as ticked off as this. They also developed a police-specification Magnum, which is intended to replace the SUVs used by non-pursuit units, but it really doesn't slacken the bowels quite as convincingly as the Charger.
So what am I doing behind the wheel? Other than realizing a boyhood dream, not much. Although the Charger has a full set of police lights and POLICE plastered down the sides it's not a real police car, per se, so the lights have been deactivated and I'm not allowed to play with the siren. Even so it attracts a lot of attention, especially from vigilant police officers who are willing to overlook impersonation of a police officer charges for a peek at the new car.
I even encountered one curious Trooper during my brief drive and he was extremely excited at the prospect of a 340-hp police car.
"I bet this sucker runs, with those low profile lights and that HEMI," he drawls, admiring the slick light bar on the roof.
"We have to limit you to 147," says Kash, "but you won't need to go much faster than that, will you?" The officer tells us about a local video game programmer with a twin-turbo Viper who's proving to be an elusive foe. The officer might need a little more speed to take him down, we concur, but otherwise 147 mph should suffice.
A great cop car!
As you might expect, it takes more than a set of lights and stickers to make a cop car. A great many requirements have to be met and each car has to be tested extensively by the Police Vehicle Evaluation Program before being certified for service. As part of its modifications, Dodge had to move the Charger's central-located gear selector to the column to make room for all the police equipment that lives between the seats. There's no finesse to the new shifter's operation, but it does feel like it will last an eternity.
The engines are stock, but Dodge has fitted an engine hour meter and there are external oil coolers for the engine oil, transmission fluid and power steering fluid, allowing the Charger to run at extremely high speeds for sustained periods. It also has a heavy duty cooling system and, naturally, air conditioning is standard, but only for front seat occupants. You're just going to have to sweat it out, scumbag.
The suspension is stiffer and more robust than usual and the speedometer is a certified and calibrated unit. The 18-inch steel wheels are wrapped in high-performance tires and the brakes are bigger than those fitted to the Viper, with dual piston front calipers, anti-lock brakes and three-mode ESP as standard. As a result, it's noticeably sportier to drive than the standard Charger, though it's anything but harsh and actually offers more road feel than the civilian-spec sedan.
A 250-hp 3.5-liter V-6 is the basic "economy" engine, matching the output of the Ford Interceptor's V-8, while the growly, 340-hp 5.7-liter HEMI is a $2,200 option and the one every cop wants to have. According to L.A. County Police vehicle tests, the HEMI-powered police Charger can hit 60 mph in just 6.5 seconds and can actually reach 150 mph, making it about 2 seconds and 20 mph swifter than the Ford.
Just the facts, man!
The wiring loom has been adapted to make it easy to add new devices and accessories, and the whole vehicle wiring and electronic system has been upgraded to cope with the massive electrical needs of a police vehicle.
Holes are drilled into the A-pillars and wiring is put in place for spot lamps, while the front and rear lights flash alternately (known as "wig-wag"), and there's a stealth mode switch that turns off every light on the car except for the gear indicator, which legally has to be left on.
Finally, you have the basics like the mounting bracket between the front seats, a rollover bar, compartment divider with a Perspex screen and hard-wearing material on the seats and floor. A couple of things surprised me about the Charger squad car, however, like the fact that Dodge fits a CD stereo as standard and there are no cupholders to be found in there. I guess that explains why they always throw their coffee out the window when a call comes in.
I may not have been allowed to play with the car's lights and sirens, but it was interesting to see the variety of buttons used by police to operate the multitude of functions both offer. The "Take Down" button is the one that pretty much illuminates everything on the car to make it easier to take down a perp. The arrow buttons make the roof lights point traffic in a particular direction, while the "Alley" switches turn on powerful side lamps to illuminate dark areas to the side of the car.
Despite the restrictions, there was still lots of fun to be had driving around in a police car and I swear, the follicles on my upper lip were starting to tingle profusely by the end of my drive. For example, you can drive at the speed limit and line traffic up for miles behind you, while drivers of oncoming vehicles are constantly slamming on the brakes when they notice the Charger approaching. Nobody eyeballs us at traffic lights, either, and the world becomes a utopian land of courteous and good-natured drivers that move out of the left lane and use their turn signals when they're supposed to.
It says a lot for the new Charger police car's presence that it commands such respect, even from a considerable distance, and it's good to know that agents of law enforcement now have a modern and agile vehicle to better protect us in the future. If you fancy a Dodge Charger Police car for yourself, all you need to do is join the force and convince the local mayor you need $26,575 for vital police equipment, or better yet, $28,805 for the HEMI.
If that sounds like too much work, though, there are easier ways to get a ride in the new Charger squad car. None you want to commit, however.
Pretty cool. I've seen pictures of this car, and it's a sweet-looking police car.
I don't attempt to outrun the police....anymore.....so I'm not too worried about their additional capabilities. I'm for anything that helps the police catch more bad guys.
Catman was pretty impressed with the Charger, and would love if his department ordered some.
dazzleman:
i'd like to see catman behind the wheel of a new charger squad car -- especially if he gives all of us a break if we're ever pulled over by him :praise: !
during the winter, an officer in a charger gave me a ride when my vehicle slid off of an icy road. what a cool ride. the policeman was in awe of the charger, too!
Quotedazzleman:
i'd like to see catman behind the wheel of a new charger squad car -- especially if he gives all of us a break if we're ever pulled over by him :praise: !
during the winter, an officer in a charger gave me a ride when my vehicle slid off of an icy road. what a cool ride. the policeman was in awe of the charger, too!
Hah, it sure would be a relief, after getting pulled over, to find out it was Catman. At least I'd know I had a shot of getting cut some slack, especially if I compliment him on his Charger... :lol:
The Chargers seem to be getting a great reception from law enforcement. I hope they do well. I'll keep my eye out to see if they pop up around my area.
dazzleman:
i wish dodge a lot of luck, too! they really look hot B) !
:ph34r: B) :ph34r: :pullover: :pullover:
:wave:
Sorry I haven't posted in awhile but I do have a number of sites i've been trying to keep up with. The following link is where ya can always find the latest pic's and news I have found on Dodge Police cars.
Cop Charger Forms (http://nwjcra.org/copcharger/index.php)
Hope this is of help to anyone looking for DCC (Dodge Cop Cars).
Enjoy as always!
B) :wave:
Quote:ph34r: B) :ph34r: :pullover: :pullover:
:wave:
Sorry I haven't posted in awhile but I do have a number of sites i've been trying to keep up with. The following link is where ya can always find the latest pic's and news I have found on Dodge Police cars.
Cop Charger Forms (http://nwjcra.org/copcharger/index.php)
Hope this is of help to anyone looking for DCC (Dodge Cop Cars).
Enjoy as always!
B) :wave:
welcome back, dude :wave: ! thanks for the links. yes! i just signed up to the dodge magnum and charger squad car site :lol: ! others should check it out, too! great reading and funky vehicle pix :thumbsup: !
catman should enjoy...
I'm driving one. Its a good car so far. A few issues after just a month but nothing too serious. You have to expect a few bugs in the first model year.
This is only for the states right? So i dont have to look out for Chargers here
Quote from: the nameless one on September 05, 2006, 09:20:11 AM
I'm driving one. Its a good car so far. A few issues after just a month but nothing too serious. You have to expect a few bugs in the first model year.
Hey nameless, how goes it? We'll probably be getting a couple in the next few months. Keep us advised and can you list the problems so far? Do you have a cage in it?
Quote from: M_power on September 05, 2006, 10:26:14 AM
This is only for the states right? So i dont have to look out for Chargers here
Any agency can get Chargers. We're probably getting a couple soon.
Quote from: M_power on September 05, 2006, 10:26:14 AM
This is only for the states right? So i don't have to look out for Chargers here
by states, do you mean the united states, or what catman was referring to ~ state police vehicles? he's absolutely correct. if you're talking about outside of the u.s., i believe the charger squad car is available in canada.
catman: tell us more about your plans!
Quote from: Atomic on September 05, 2006, 05:27:23 PM
by states, do you mean the united states, or what catman was referring to ~ state police vehicles? he's absolutely correct. if you're talking about outside of the u.s., i believe the charger squad car is available in canada.
catman: tell us more about your plans!
He's from Canada so he must mean up there. Well, don't worry!
(http://www.phildorsett.com/images/chargers/canadiancharger2.jpg)
Oh damn it. Now another car to watch for other than a Crown Vic, Impala, Malibu, Neon.
Quote from: M_power on September 05, 2006, 06:17:32 PM
Oh damn it. Now another car to watch for other than a Crown Vic, Impala, Malibu, Neon.
Don't forget the windstar :)
Quote from: eThirteen on September 05, 2006, 09:43:58 PM
Don't forget the windstar :)
Welcome to carspin man :rockon: What windstar?
Quote from: Catman on September 05, 2006, 05:38:03 PM
He's from Canada so he must mean up there. Well, don't worry!
(http://www.phildorsett.com/images/chargers/canadiancharger2.jpg)
i just returned from a trip to montreal. wow! i couldn't believe the large number of new dodge caravan police vehicles!
Quote from: Atomic on September 06, 2006, 09:06:05 AM
i just returned from a trip to montreal. wow! i couldn't believe the large number of new dodge caravan police vehicles!
:(
don't fret, catman! your department can order a fleet here in the u.s. :devil:!
Dodge Caravans? So that's where the cops piss away all the government funding...
They have to Caravans to carry the big bad guys, mother-in-laws, CSI equipment. You wouldn't want them driving H? all the time would you.
I think there's a very good chance we'll be getting some Chargers in October. The chief would love to tout the gas savings to town meeting. ;)
I just drove through the New Jersey turnpike last week and I spotted an unmarked slate-blue Charger with black styled steel wheels and chrome center caps sitting in the median. I was going too fast to catch any more details or take a picture. Cool looking color combo I thought, I would almost take one like that.
On a side note, I always thought it was funny that the police didn't want the Chrysler 300 because it was percieved/styled as a "luxury" car, even though they had cheaper stripped down models available as rentals long before the Charger was ever released. It's like the Vic/Marqi... same damn car, who cares.
Quote from: NACar on September 08, 2006, 02:16:15 PM
I just drove through the New Jersey turnpike last week and I spotted an unmarked slate-blue Charger with black styled steel wheels and chrome center caps sitting in the median. I was going too fast to catch any more details or take a picture. Cool looking color combo I thought, I would almost take one like that.
On a side note, I always thought it was funny that the police didn't want the Chrysler 300 because it was percieved/styled as a "luxury" car, even though they had cheaper stripped down models available as rentals long before the Charger was ever released. It's like the Vic/Marqi... same damn car, who cares.
The 300 was never certified as a pursuit car and the floor shifter makes it very hard to mount equipment.
I saw an NYPD Charger the other day. It looked really nice. I didnt take a picture for fear of getting arrested and put away.
Quote from: Catman on September 08, 2006, 02:59:02 PM
The 300 was never certified as a pursuit car and the floor shifter makes it very hard to mount equipment.
The Charger comes with a column shifter? I thought they were all in the console.
Quote from: NACar on September 08, 2006, 04:24:08 PM
The Charger comes with a column shifter? I thought they were all in the console.
That's why the Charger took another year to be available to police. They had to design a shifter.
Here's a pic I took.
Quote from: NACar on September 08, 2006, 02:16:15 PM
I just drove through the New Jersey turnpike last week and I spotted an unmarked slate-blue Charger with black styled steel wheels and chrome center caps sitting in the median. I was going too fast to catch any more details or take a picture. Cool looking color combo I thought, I would almost take one like that.
On a side note, I always thought it was funny that the police didn't want the Chrysler 300 because it was percieved/styled as a "luxury" car, even though they had cheaper stripped down models available as rentals long before the Charger was ever released. It's like the Vic/Marqi... same damn car, who cares.
obviously, you weren't driving fast enough, or that slate blue charger would have pulled your sorry ass over curb size! lol :) !
Quote from: Atomic on September 08, 2006, 08:36:24 PM
obviously, you weren't driving fast enough, or that slate blue charger would have pulled your sorry ass over curb size! lol :) !
Yes, driving really fast through a lot of localities is a great way to learn about all the different unmarked cars that are being used.... :lol:
The most unusual ones I've seen were Chevy Camaros being used in Florida.
Quote from: dazzleman on September 08, 2006, 09:43:34 PM
Yes, driving really fast through a lot of localities is a great way to learn about all the different unmarked cars that are being used.... :lol:
The most unusual ones I've seen were Chevy Camaros being used in Florida.
nys use to use camaros and mustangs during summer months. i've seen those camaros in fl, too :mask:!
Walpole, NH now has a Charger cruiser. Not sure if it is the Hemi, it sounds mean but then 3800 GMs can pass a rorty exhaust note too.
Quote from: R-inge on September 09, 2006, 07:31:19 PM
Walpole, NH now has a Charger cruiser. Not sure if it is the Hemi, it sounds mean but then 3800 GMs can pass a rorty exhaust note too.
NHSP just ordered some too. :pullover:
Quote from: R-inge on September 09, 2006, 07:31:19 PM
Walpole, NH now has a Charger cruiser.? Not sure if it is the Hemi, it sounds mean but then 3800 GMs can pass a rorty exhaust note too.
I've been to Walpole. It's a tiny town -- hard to believe they even have their own PD.
Quote from: dazzleman on September 09, 2006, 08:10:19 PM
I've been to Walpole. It's a tiny town -- hard to believe they even have their own PD.
The PD covers Walpole, North Walpole, and much of the surround area east of the river.
Washington State Patrol now has a number of unmarked R/Ts. Most I image are part of the aggressive driving patrol whereby they drive covertly with traffic, looking for major offenses. What better way to draw 'em out than a Charger R/T.
Quote from: Atomic on September 08, 2006, 08:36:24 PM
obviously, you weren't driving fast enough, or that slate blue charger would have pulled your sorry ass over curb size! lol :) !
As I recall, my radar detector never went off. The cop must have been eating lunch or sleeping.
Quote from: Atomic on September 09, 2006, 02:20:47 PM
nys use to use camaros and mustangs during summer months. i've seen those camaros in fl, too :mask:!
I've learned the hard way that unmarked Camaros come in both red and black in South Carolina.
I believe my friend got nailed by a white unmarked Camaro in Myrtle Beach.
I saw an unmarked black 300 police car in Quebec on my trip but I think it was a detective who drove it and he was standing a few stores away and he kept looking at me when i had a camera. So I got scared and didn't even try to take a picture.
Quote from: M_power on September 10, 2006, 12:19:01 PM
I saw an unmarked black 300 police car in Quebec on my trip but I think it was a detective who drove it and he was standing a few stores away and he kept looking at me when i had a camera. So I got scared and didn't even try to take a picture.
Sounds like you've got the fear in you. I almost got stopped for trying to steal my own car.
the 2007 charger will offer awd for the first time. this opt. was only available on the 300/magnum series for 2005 and 2006. i wonder if dodge will offer the awd system on the charger squad car :pullover:?
should they?
Quote from: Atomic on September 10, 2006, 07:55:19 PM
the 2007 charger will offer awd for the first time. this opt. was only available on the 300/magnum series for 2005 and 2006. i wonder if dodge will offer the awd system on the charger squad car :pullover:?
should they?
It would certainly be nice in the snow. ;)
Quote from: Catman on September 10, 2006, 08:26:23 PM
It would certainly be nice in the snow. ;)
any drawbacks with awd regarding speed, for example, catman?
AWD adds weight, which hurts gas mileage.
Quote from: Atomic on September 11, 2006, 08:12:46 AM
any drawbacks with awd regarding speed, for example, catman?
I doubt it. A little perhaps but nothing major. As Raza said, mileage would suffer some.
Quote from: Catman on September 11, 2006, 06:00:25 PM
I doubt it. A little perhaps but nothing major. As Raza said, mileage would suffer some.
would dodge need to make any modifications to the police package to accommodate awd? i hope to see awd offered!
Quote from: Atomic on September 11, 2006, 07:27:59 PM
would dodge need to make any modifications to the police package to accommodate awd? i hope to see awd offered!
I don't imagine so. As it's already RWD, you won't lose any trunk space.
AWD is awesome in wet weather and snow. But maybe not on ice but still better than RWD and FWD not to be confused with 4WD.
Quote from: Raza on September 10, 2006, 06:20:49 PM
Sounds like you've got the fear in you.? I almost got stopped for trying to steal my own car.
lol what happened. I didn't want to get into any kind of trouble while I was there and he didn't seem like the nicest guy. I
think it was a prostitute standing next to him in front of the store. No idea what the cop was doing
Looks okay to me.
Quote from: Atomic on September 10, 2006, 07:55:19 PM
the 2007 charger will offer awd for the first time. this opt. was only available on the 300/magnum series for 2005 and 2006. i wonder if dodge will offer the awd system on the charger squad car? :pullover:?
should they?
It would be a good idea for cops here
Quote from: M_power on September 11, 2006, 10:04:19 PM
lol what happened. I didn't want to get into any kind of trouble while I was there and he didn't seem like the nicest guy. I think it was a prostitute standing next to him in front of the store. No idea what the cop was doing
I'd just gotten my haircut (since I've been going to the same barbershop for nigh a decade, they let me stick around long if I'm running late) and it was pretty late and I walked out to my Mercedes, saw the cop, and he startled me. So I reached for the handle of my car and it didn't open, since I didn't unlock it. I was just standing there, and the cop stopped his car and looked over at me, like he was going to get out of the car. Then I hit unlock on the key, the hazards flashed, and I waved to him and got in.
Quote from: Raza on September 12, 2006, 05:11:05 AM
I'd just gotten my haircut (since I've been going to the same barbershop for nigh a decade, they let me stick around long if I'm running late) and it was pretty late and I walked out to my Mercedes, saw the cop, and he startled me. So I reached for the handle of my car and it didn't open, since I didn't unlock it. I was just standing there, and the cop stopped his car and looked over at me, like he was going to get out of the car. Then I hit unlock on the key, the hazards flashed, and I waved to him and got in.
:mask:
Quote from: Raza on September 12, 2006, 05:11:05 AM
I'd just gotten my haircut (since I've been going to the same barbershop for nigh a decade, they let me stick around long if I'm running late) and it was pretty late and I walked out to my Mercedes, saw the cop, and he startled me. So I reached for the handle of my car and it didn't open, since I didn't unlock it. I was just standing there, and the cop stopped his car and looked over at me, like he was going to get out of the car. Then I hit unlock on the key, the hazards flashed, and I waved to him and got in.
you drive a 'benz, raz? what year and model?
Quote from: Atomic on September 13, 2006, 08:49:50 AM
you drive a 'benz, raz? what year and model?
Used to. 2002 E320, black over ash leather. My brother drives it now. I have the Passat pictured in my signature.
Quote from: Raza on September 14, 2006, 06:22:27 PM
Used to.? 2002 E320, black over ash leather.? My brother drives it now.? I have the Passat pictured in my signature.
What did you do wrong that your parents passed the Mercedes on to your brother, and downgraded you to a VW? :lol:
The town I work in (here in NH) just got an undercover blue Charger patrol car. It looks completely stock, but I think they are slowly filling it with the necessary equipment.
If I remember correctly the Albany Police Dept. has a Charger. It's pretty sweet looking.
Quote from: Atomic on May 12, 2006, 05:16:25 PM
TCC, May 12, 2006:
...there was still lots of fun to be had driving around in a police car and I swear, the follicles on my upper lip were starting to tingle profusely by the end of my drive...
Did anybody else catch this golden prose? Close to 90% of the LEOs around here are definitely sporting a Burt Reynolds of some sort.
Edit: Back on topic, the Charger definitely kicks some tail, and I hope they do sell well. I have yet to see any here, most of the local agencies have Chevy Tahoes and a few Crown Vics here and there.
That's what the revised Tiburon looks like! Burt Reynolds! I knew I'd seen it before somewhere!
Quote from: dazzleman on September 14, 2006, 08:05:59 PM
What did you do wrong that your parents passed the Mercedes on to your brother, and downgraded you to a VW? :lol:
I believe he actually prefers the VW...
Quote from: TBR on September 17, 2006, 02:39:13 PM
I believe he actually prefers the VW...
I do prefer the Volkswagen.
Quote from: IrishGuy on September 17, 2006, 09:22:40 AM
If I remember correctly the Albany Police Dept. has a Charger. It's pretty sweet looking.
albany, ny?
Quote from: Atomic on September 17, 2006, 05:33:07 PM
albany, ny?
Yep, my brother goes to school at SUNY Albany, I saw one when I was up visiting him recently.
Quote from: The Pirate on September 17, 2006, 06:11:32 PM
Yep, my brother goes to school at SUNY Albany, I saw one when I was up visiting him recently.
cool! great school.
rumor has it that nys will replace their ford crown victoria interceptors with dodge hemi v8 chargers and either 6 or 8 cylinder magnums. however, i have yet to receive confirmation. i am seeing plenty of dodge ram pick-ups.
any news, catman? others?
Quote from: Atomic on September 18, 2006, 05:16:44 PM
cool! great school.
rumor has it that nys will replace their ford crown victoria interceptors with dodge hemi v8 chargers and either 6 or 8 cylinder magnums. however, i have yet to receive confirmation. i am seeing plenty of dodge ram pick-ups.
any news, catman? others?
There will be no news from my department until after Oct town meeting.
Quote from: Atomic on September 18, 2006, 05:16:44 PM
cool! great school.
rumor has it that nys will replace their ford crown victoria interceptors with dodge hemi v8 chargers and either 6 or 8 cylinder magnums. however, i have yet to receive confirmation. i am seeing plenty of dodge ram pick-ups.
any news, catman? others?
Most of the troopers around here drive Tahoes and the occasional Expedition, if it were me, I would rather be in the Charger or Magnum. The sheriffs around here always had some Crown Vics, a good number of Tahoes, and every now then a Ford SuperDuty truck thrown in the mix. Although, just between today and yesterday, I've seen three new Impalas driven by the local deputies. I must say that the new Impala looks quite nice with the dual exhaust and black steelies.
Around here we just have CVs, F-150s, and an occassional K9 Explorer or Expedition.
At home, in my local PD, we have mostly Yukons and Tahoes. A couple of unmarked Impalas (one green, one black) and one unmarked Grand Marquis (gold). In surrounding PDs, we have one Impala, marked, whose job is to patrol a few in-town streets for speeders, and mostly CVs. Another one has Explorers and CVs.
Calgary Police Service now has Charger cruisers to complement their Crown Victoria Police Interceptors and Chevrolet Impalas. I've seen two already.
Haven't seen the Impalas in a while though. Maybe they got rid of 'em.
Quote from: 93JC on September 20, 2006, 10:39:05 AM
Calgary Police Service now has Charger cruisers to complement their Crown Victoria Police Interceptors and Chevrolet Impalas. I've seen two already.
Haven't seen the Impalas in a while though. Maybe they got rid of 'em.
Most likely, they really aren't cutting it for most depts. I went to Medford Police, MA one day on business and noticed they had some Impalas. When I asked the Capt how they liked them he became enraged and was still yelling after I walked outside. :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage:
Quote from: Catman on September 20, 2006, 05:16:41 PM
Most likely, they really aren't cutting it for most depts.? I went to Medford Police, MA one day on business and noticed they had some Impalas.? When I asked the Capt how they liked them he became enraged and was still yelling after I walked outside. :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage:
Do you know what their deficiencies are, Catman?
Quote from: dazzleman on September 20, 2006, 07:34:31 PM
Do you know what their deficiencies are, Catman?
The list was long and he kept yelling so I really didn't catch it all. It was like, "Growl growl growl transmission growl grown catalytic converter growl growl radiator growl growl growl front ends growl..............".
I imagine they are also quite a bit slower than the Fords and aren't any cheaper. I don't know why a PD would buy them.
Quote from: Catman on September 20, 2006, 07:37:03 PM
The list was long and he kept yelling so I really didn't catch it all. It was like, "Growl growl growl transmission growl grown catalytic converter growl growl radiator growl growl growl front ends growl..............".
Isn't being FWD historically an achilles heel for police vehicles? Most of the police vehicles around here have an obvious dent in the front bumper from where the car jumped a curb or something. I would think that the CV would deal with that scenario much better than any FWD vehicle, not to mention body on frame vs. unibody. It will be interesting to see how the Charger holds up in that respect, as it's unibody. It's definitely got bragging rights in a pursuit setting, but the police vehicles around here seem to be subjected to potholes, curbs, and off roading much more frequently than they see high speed duty.
Quote from: Raza on September 12, 2006, 05:11:05 AM
I'd just gotten my haircut (since I've been going to the same barbershop for nigh a decade, they let me stick around long if I'm running late) and? it was pretty late and I walked out to my Mercedes, saw the cop, and he startled me.? So I reached for the handle of my car and it didn't open, since I didn't unlock it.? I was just standing there, and the cop stopped his car and looked over at me, like he was going to get out of the car.? Then I hit unlock on the key, the hazards flashed, and I waved to him and got in.
Everyone around my car stares at me when I get into the car and drive. I know I don't look older than my age but in a month I'll be able to legally drive by myself...
Quote from: TBR on September 20, 2006, 08:01:12 PM
I imagine they are also quite a bit slower than the Fords and aren't any cheaper. I don't know why a PD would buy them.
Surprisingly enough, with the new 3.9l the Impala puts up some impressive numbers. At least if you compare it to the CVPI. It beats the ford in every acceleration tests, it gets to 110 and 120 in less distance by almost 3/10's of a mile quicker, and it has a top speed of 142 to Fords best of 128. Plus they perform much better in the brake tests than the CVPI. They seem to lack in the road course, where they end up trailing the CVPI and the Charger v6 by a couple seconds. But, they are about $18,500 and get about 23mpg overall on patrol. But overall, I agree, I can not see any reason for a department to buy one. If you need economy buy the v6 Charger.
Quote from: hounddog on September 23, 2006, 05:16:24 AM
Surprisingly enough, with the new 3.9l the Impala puts up some impressive numbers. At least if you compare it to the CVPI. It beats the ford in every acceleration tests, it gets to 110 and 120 in less distance by almost 3/10's of a mile quicker, and it has a top speed of 142 to Fords best of 128. Plus they perform much better in the brake tests than the CVPI. They seem to lack in the road course, where they end up trailing the CVPI and the Charger v6 by a couple seconds. But, they are about $18,500 and get about 23mpg overall on patrol. But overall, I agree, I can not see any reason for a department to buy one. If you need economy buy the v6 Charger.
Nice to see you here Hounddog! We're probably getting a couple V6 Chargers for the traffic division.
Quote from: Catman on September 23, 2006, 05:18:00 AM
Nice to see you here Hounddog!? We're probably getting a couple V6 Chargers for the traffic division.
Thanks. Been back in the hospital with mini stroke. Doing better than last time! I think you will like the v6's. They are able to get to 110 and 120 in less distance than the CVPI. I do not understand the physics behind acceleration, but the CVPI gets to those speeds faster, but in a biger space. Somehow, the acceleration numbers are not always revealing of how fast the car really is. Never will understand all that stuff! I guess that expains why I said several months ago that it felt like the Charger v6 had more power. I do have a question though, why does DC use the 2.87 gears in the v6 Charger, but they used the 3.55 in the Intrepid? Would not the performance numbers be off the chart?
Quote from: hounddog on September 23, 2006, 05:24:31 AM
Thanks. Been back in the hospital with mini stroke. Doing better than last time! I think you will like the v6's. They are able to get to 110 and 120 in less distance than the CVPI. I do not understand the physics behind acceleration, but the CVPI gets to those speeds faster, but in a biger space. Somehow, the acceleration numbers are not always revealing of how fast the car really is. Never will understand all that stuff! I guess that expains why I said several months ago that it felt like the Charger v6 had more power. I do have a question though, why does DC use the 2.87 gears in the v6 Charger, but they used the 3.55 in the Intrepid? Would not the performance numbers be off the chart?
Good question on the gearing, not sure but perhaps it's related to fuel mileage?
Glad to hear you feel better, take care of yourself!
There are a few cops around here with Intrepids with the same engine as mine :rockon:... the High-Output version of the 3.5L(which is what I have) was only standard on the top-of-the-line Intrepids, and standard on 300Ms. A cop in an Intrepid saw mine and gave me the thumbs up once. :)
Quote from: touareg208 on September 23, 2006, 02:31:36 PM
There are a few cops around here with Intrepids with the same engine as mine :rockon:... the High-Output version of the 3.5L(which is what I have) was only standard on the top-of-the-line Intrepids, and standard on 300Ms. A cop in an Intrepid saw mine and gave me the thumbs up once. :)
How quick are the Intrepids with said HO engine? The midlevel engine was a 3.2 I think? I know the base was a 2.7 and rather gutless, but I drove one with the midlevel engine (3.2) and it was decent, but there was definite room for improvement.
In the 2nd Generation Intrepids, there was originally these options
2.7 and 3.2...
Then in 2002 or 2003, the 3.2 was replaced with a 3.5... and in 2003 for sure they came out with a High-Output 3.5.
When it was killed in 2004, these were the 3 choices
Intrepid SE had a 2.7L - 190hp
Intrepid ES had a 3.5L - 234hp
Intrepid R/T and SXT had a 3.5L - 252hp (same engine that's now available in 300, Charger, Magnum, new Sebring, Pacifica, etc.)
I think it does 0-60 in 6.5...but mine has a chip and an aftermarket exhaust, so it has an extra 15-ish horsepower...
Quote from: touareg208 on September 24, 2006, 12:17:15 PM
In the 2nd Generation Intrepids, there was originally these options
2.7 and 3.2...
Then in 2002 or 2003, the 3.2 was replaced with a 3.5... and in 2003 for sure they came out with a High-Output 3.5.
When it was killed in 2004, these were the 3 choices
Intrepid SE had a 2.7L - 190hp
Intrepid ES had a 3.5L - 234hp
Intrepid R/T and SXT had a 3.5L - 252hp (same engine that's now available in 300, Charger, Magnum, new Sebring, Pacifica, etc.)
I think it does 0-60 in 6.5...but mine has a chip and an aftermarket exhaust, so it has an extra 15-ish horsepower...
Nice, can't argue with a 0 to 60 of less than 6.5 seconds from a full size sedan. The R/T was a pretty sharp looking car, if only it had a proper transmission.
Intrepid was identical to the 300M, right?
If that's true, there's no way you're looking at 6.5 seconds to 60.
Quote from: Raza on September 24, 2006, 10:44:44 PM
Intrepid was identical to the 300M, right??
If that's true, there's no way you're looking at 6.5 seconds to 60.
You are right, Raza. I was at the September 2003 MSP tests, and it seems to me it put up 0-60 in the area of 7.5 ish. Do not remember the exact numbers anymore, but it was in that area. My wifes 330Cic convertible get 0-60 in 6.6, and that car is definately faster than the Intrepid. But I have driven the Intrepid squad car with the 3.5HO and I will say I would rather have that over the CVPI, except for the brakes. It rode, handled, had better accleration and top speed, had much more front seat room, but less headroom for me. It was a fun car to drive.
Mine has the R/T engine and the AutoStick manumatic 4-spd transmission. The same engine was also the 3.5HO engine in the squad cars. AFTER chip and exhaust it can barely do 6.5 ;)..though I may be inaccurate...I got this number with a stopwatch and an empty patch of the 407ETR (for the Toronto members).
Instead of 252hp, mine puts out 267 and it feels more powerful than my 268-hp Camry.
Quote from: touareg208 on September 25, 2006, 06:53:19 AM
Mine has the R/T engine and the AutoStick manumatic 4-spd transmission. The same engine was also the 3.5HO engine in the squad cars. AFTER chip and exhaust it can barely do 6.5 ;)..though I may be inaccurate...I got this number with a stopwatch and an empty patch of the 407ETR (for the Toronto members).
Instead of 252hp, mine puts out 267 and it feels more powerful than my 268-hp Camry.
Car and Driver got a 0-60 of around 8 seconds for the 300M.
15 horsepower isn't going to cut off a second and a half from 3700 pound sedan.
Quote from: hounddog on September 25, 2006, 02:34:57 AM
You are right, Raza. I was at the September 2003 MSP tests, and it seems to me it put up 0-60 in the area of 7.5 ish. Do not remember the exact numbers anymore, but it was in that area. My wifes 330Cic convertible get 0-60 in 6.6, and that car is definately faster than the Intrepid. But I have driven the Intrepid squad car with the 3.5HO and I will say I would rather have that over the CVPI, except for the brakes. It rode, handled, had better accleration and top speed, had much more front seat room, but less headroom for me. It was a fun car to drive.
I can imagine that the interior packaging was better than the Crown. But why then, are PDs so angered by the Impala?
Front-drive, not as durable as the Crown Vic, not as easy to fix as the Crown Vic, more expensive on the whole than the Crown Vic.
Quote from: 93JC on September 25, 2006, 10:38:32 AM
Front-drive, not as durable as the Crown Vic, not as easy to fix as the Crown Vic, more expensive on the whole than the Crown Vic.
Sounds legit.
Quote from: touareg208 on September 25, 2006, 06:53:19 AM
Mine has the R/T engine and the AutoStick manumatic 4-spd transmission. The same engine was also the 3.5HO engine in the squad cars. AFTER chip and exhaust it can barely do 6.5 ;)..though I may be inaccurate...I got this number with a stopwatch and an empty patch of the 407ETR (for the Toronto members).
Instead of 252hp, mine puts out 267 and it feels more powerful than my 268-hp Camry.
You basically stopped in the middle of the 407? Crazy bastard :lol:
Quote from: Raza on September 24, 2006, 10:44:44 PM
Intrepid was identical to the 300M, right??
If that's true, there's no way you're looking at 6.5 seconds to 60.
The Intrepid was not quite identical, but very close. The squad car was lighter as it had a lesser interior and none of the nice elecronics. But, yea, they were close. I think you are right here, too. With the improvements he made of 15 horsepower I have a hard time believing he got a second off the time as well. I am not saying he is lying, he probably did clock his car at that speed. But that is why MSP uses people outside the car with electronic timers to get the times they use, vastly more accurate.
On another note, Catman, remember when we thought the Caprice was fast? Now every car is putting up numbers that are almost identical, or faster, to the Caprice? Funny how perceptions have changed. One thing that has really changed is that 9C1 only got about 11-13 mpg! YIKES! Of course with gas at $0.89 a gallon
before they took off taxes for government it did not really matter. Times have changed.
Quote from: hounddog on September 25, 2006, 11:18:23 PM
The Intrepid was not quite identical, but very close. The squad car was lighter as it had a lesser interior and none of the nice elecronics. But, yea, they were close. I think you are right here, too. With the improvements he made of 15 horsepower I have a hard time believing he got a second off the time as well. I am not saying he is lying, he probably did clock his car at that speed. But that is why MSP uses people outside the car with electronic timers to get the times they use, vastly more accurate.
On another note, Catman, remember when we thought the Caprice was fast? Now every car is putting up numbers that are almost identical, or faster, to the Caprice? Funny how perceptions have changed. One thing that has really changed is that 9C1 only got about 11-13 mpg! YIKES! Of course with gas at $0.89 a gallon before they took off taxes for government it did not really matter. Times have changed.
Too right. I'm not calling him a liar or anything like that, but when magazines and manufacturers get 0-60 times they use lasers and GPS trackers, not stopwatches. It's not exactly the most precise type of instrument. But if any given car could lose up to a second and a half from just 15 brake horsepower, I think they'd take extra steps to try and attain that.
Quote from: touareg208 on September 25, 2006, 06:53:19 AM
Mine has the R/T engine and the AutoStick manumatic 4-spd transmission. The same engine was also the 3.5HO engine in the squad cars. AFTER chip and exhaust it can barely do 6.5 ;)..though I may be inaccurate...I got this number with a stopwatch and an empty patch of the 407ETR (for the Toronto members).?
Instead of 252hp, mine puts out 267 and it feels more powerful than my 268-hp Camry.
regarding the 2006-07 charger squad cars: a 5 spd. automotic is standard, eh? w/ both the top v6 and the hemi v8? ya see, i'm too lazy to get my '07 charger brochure from the next room ;)!
Quote from: hounddog on September 25, 2006, 11:18:23 PM
The Intrepid was not quite identical, but very close. The squad car was lighter as it had a lesser interior and none of the nice elecronics. But, yea, they were close. I think you are right here, too. With the improvements he made of 15 horsepower I have a hard time believing he got a second off the time as well. I am not saying he is lying, he probably did clock his car at that speed. But that is why MSP uses people outside the car with electronic timers to get the times they use, vastly more accurate.
On another note, Catman, remember when we thought the Caprice was fast? Now every car is putting up numbers that are almost identical, or faster, to the Caprice? Funny how perceptions have changed. One thing that has really changed is that 9C1 only got about 11-13 mpg! YIKES! Of course with gas at $0.89 a gallon before they took off taxes for government it did not really matter. Times have changed.
Yeah, I remember the Caprice being popular though we never had any. We did have a couple in the USAF when I was in but those were 5.0L's. I'll tell you what drives me crazy is the losers who reminisce about how the Caprice LC1 was the fastest cruiser ever, blah, blah. Yeah, well it's time for a reality check for those clowns. Just about everything is faster now. :tounge:
the latest rumor? the availability of an all new dodge charger squad car w/ a 6.1 liter hemi v8 in awd. good idea? better w/out awd?
too much power? :confused:?!
Quote from: Atomic on October 01, 2006, 05:59:33 PM
the latest rumor? the availability of an all new dodge charger squad car w/ a 6.1 liter hemi v8 in awd. good idea? better w/out awd?
too much power :confused:?!
Where did you hear that? :mask:
Quote from: Raza on September 25, 2006, 12:28:14 PM
Sounds legit.
So have you backed down from your Aveo cop car position?
Quote from: Catman on October 01, 2006, 06:24:51 PM
Where did you hear that? :mask:
some friends in blue from the gym. what's really cool is when they drive their colorful hemi v8 charger squad cars to the fitness center and park them next to each other. so far, i've seen chargers from three different agencies all at once.
so catman, if this rumor is true, is it a good idea? i think you said in another forum that this (6.1 liter v8) engine would be too powerful for police work. however, we were speculating about the rwd model. what about an awd variant?[hell! where is spell check? did we lose it :banghead:? grrr...] ~ atomic
Quote from: Atomic on October 03, 2006, 03:50:20 PM
some friends in blue from the gym. what's really cool is when they drive their colorful hemi v8 charger squad cars to the fitness center and park them next to each other. so far, i've seen chargers from three different agencies all at once.
so catman, if this rumor is true, is it a good idea? i think you said in another forum that this (6.1 liter v8) engine would be too powerful for police work. however, we were speculating about the rwd model. what about an awd variant?
[hell! where is spell check? did we lose it :banghead:? grrr...] ~ atomic
They could make it an option but it's overkill I think. We're getting V6's.
Quote from: Catman on October 03, 2006, 04:39:43 PM
They could make it an option but it's overkill I think.? We're getting V6's.
post the pix when the cars come in! cool :praise:!
Quote from: TBR on October 01, 2006, 09:12:00 PM
So have you backed down from your Aveo cop car position?
No. It may be legit from their viewpoint, but I'm not in the habit of being sympathetic towards police officers.
Quote from: Raza on October 03, 2006, 10:44:04 PM
No. It may be legit from their viewpoint, but I'm not in the habit of being sympathetic towards police officers.
My belly hurts. :(
Looks like we're probably not going to get a Charger this year. Ford is including a better warranty and is cheaper. We got a little crunched on money this year too. Not that I care since I drive a desk. :praise:
Quote from: Catman on October 04, 2006, 09:38:11 AM
My belly hurts. :(
Oh, Cat. You should know by now, I don't consider you a cop. I consider you a decent human being.
Your heart is true. You're a pal and a confidant. And if you threw a party, invited everyone you knew, you would see the biggest gift would be from me and the card attached would say: "Thank you for being a friend."
Quote from: Raza on October 04, 2006, 05:11:39 PM
Oh, Cat. You should know by now, I don't consider you a cop. I consider you a decent human being.
Your heart is true. You're a pal and a confidant. And if you threw a party, invited everyone you knew, you would see the biggest gift would be from me and the card attached would say: "Thank you for being a friend."
ROFLMAO :lol:
Quote from: Catman on October 04, 2006, 05:30:34 PM
ROFLMAO :lol:
Good, I'm glad you got that. I'm cracking up right now. I'm waiting for some kid to roll in here and have no clue what's going on.
Quote from: Raza on October 05, 2006, 03:53:16 AM
Good, I'm glad you got that.? I'm cracking up right now.? I'm waiting for some kid to roll in here and have no clue what's going on.
golden girls???
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5749/cnpca6144viub0.jpg)
Quote from: Catman on October 08, 2006, 05:41:57 PM
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5749/cnpca6144viub0.jpg)
That's a nice crowd control vehicle - just hit people with the bull bar. Efficiency! I like it :praise:
WOW! that's one hot charger. great color scheme, too! it's nice to find squad cars cool again :tounge:!
Quote from: Raza on October 03, 2006, 10:44:04 PM
No.? It may be legit from their viewpoint, but I'm not in the habit of being sympathetic towards police officers.
w/ all due respect, my good man, raza, catman is one
great guy. we agree on this! i bet he is one hell of a law enforcement officer, too. we still are coming from the same place here, too. catman actually helped me when my equally as special cousin, a policeman, was killed in the line of duty.
you are pretty
awesome from what i have learned about you, raza! yes. this, despite our many
fun loving disagreements!
i hope you'll come to realize that there are many good men and women in uniform out there.
personally, i had a very hard time w/ "the police" after the rodney king horror story, amongst others. fortunately, i have since learned that the
vast majority of officers are like our buddy, catman. those officers who commit "police brutality" desrve even harsher treatment then many of the civilian criminals out there. if this is where you are coming from, we agree once more, buddy :praise:!
i just
hate generalizations :nono:!
Quote from: Atomic on October 10, 2006, 04:27:02 PM
w/ all due respect, my good man, raza, catman is one great guy. we agree on this! i bet he is one hell of a law enforcement officer, too. we still are coming from the same place here, too. catman actually helped me when my equally as special cousin, a policeman, was killed in the line of duty.
you are pretty awesome from what i have learned about you, raza! yes. this, despite our many fun loving disagreements!
i hope you'll come to realize that there are many good men and women in uniform out there.
personally, i had a very hard time w/ "the police" after the rodney king horror story, amongst others. fortunately, i have since learned that the vast majority of officers are like our buddy, catman. those officers who commit "police brutality" desrve even harsher treatment then many of the civilian criminals out there. if this is where you are coming from, we agree once more, buddy? :praise:!
i just hate generalizations? :nono:!?
Dude, you're so politically correct..... :lol:
But let me tell you...if Catman were such a great cop, he would have arrested me for driving 90 mph when he was in the back seat of my car.... :lol: What kind of cop just stands by and watches such egregious violations of the law without intervening? :P
Quote from: dazzleman on October 10, 2006, 08:23:07 PM
Dude, you're so politically correct..... :lol:
But let me tell you...if Catman were such a great cop, he would have arrested me for driving 90 mph when he was in the back seat of my car.... :lol:? What kind of cop just stands by and watches such egregious violations of the law without intervening?? :P
oh!!! i might owe raza an apology :cheers:!!! guess catman deserves an aveo afterall!
Jeeeezus I am NOT going to be happy seeing one of those in my rearview this ski season...I'm glad BIllerica didn't get one!
Unfortunately, the staties will probably have?
Quote from: J86 on October 11, 2006, 09:25:13 PM
Jeeeezus I am NOT going to be happy seeing one of those in my rearview this ski season...I'm glad BIllerica didn't get one!
Unfortunately, the staties will probably have?
Well, you better get used to it dude, 'cause now the staties will finally have a car that can catch up to you and give you the pounding you've long deserved..... :lol:
Off topic, but relevant to my part in this thread at the top of the page,
I removed the speed limiter on my car today... but I don't trust my car at speeds over 200, it has too much torque steer at lower speeds. However, I fired my S550 up to 231 before having to back down. I'm hoping to hit the
Km/h?
:lol:
I just saw my first Calgary City Police Dodge Charger cruising around the Bridlewood area in the SW. Looks good...for a cop car. Have you seen it yet 93JC?
Quote from: 93JC on September 20, 2006, 10:39:05 AM
Calgary Police Service now has Charger cruisers to complement their Crown Victoria Police Interceptors and Chevrolet Impalas. I've seen two already.
Haven't seen the Impalas in a while though. Maybe they got rid of 'em.
I'm on the ball. :ohyeah:
Quote from: 93JC on October 16, 2006, 01:53:03 PM
I'm on the ball.? :ohyeah:
Sorry, didn't read the whole thread. :cheers:
:praise:
Quote from: dazzleman on October 12, 2006, 05:12:58 AM
Well, you better get used to it dude, 'cause now the staties will finally have a car that can catch up to you and give you the pounding you've long deserved..... :lol:
First weekend in Nov...road trip to rhody and back. I am keeping my fingers crossed, and my buddy's Escort plugged into the dash.
Turns out we are getting a Charger, just one. It'll be a V6 and it's going to take four months to come in. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Catman on October 19, 2006, 05:53:21 AM
Turns out we are getting a Charger, just one.? It'll be a V6 and it's going to take four months to come in. :rolleyes:
Big help that will be. Why bother?
Quote from: dazzleman on October 19, 2006, 05:58:29 AM
Big help that will be. Why bother?
That's kind of the problem with Dodge right now. Regardless, it's not like we don't have the current car until it comes in. The Fords we're getting will be here in early November. The Dodge is going to the Traffic division and it will basically be a test car. It's cheaper to do this since we do not need a cage and lightbar for it.
Quote from: Atomic on May 12, 2006, 05:16:25 PM
stealth mode switch that turns off every light on the car except for the gear indicator, which legally has to be left on.
YAWN-
My Voyager has this feature too, except it's 2 switches, I need to wire a switch for the brake lights, and my gear indicator is just lit up by a regular light, so it goes dim, too... :rockon:
LOL
I like the Charger- they'd look awesome as popo-mobiles..
Quote from: touareg208 on September 24, 2006, 12:17:15 PM
In the 2nd Generation Intrepids, there was originally these? options
2.7 and 3.2...
Then in 2002 or 2003, the 3.2 was replaced with a 3.5... and in 2003 for sure they came out with a High-Output 3.5.
When it was killed in 2004, these were the 3 choices
Intrepid SE had a 2.7L - 190hp
Intrepid ES had a 3.5L - 234hp
Intrepid R/T and SXT had a 3.5L - 252hp (same engine that's now available in 300, Charger, Magnum, new Sebring, Pacifica, etc.)
I think it does 0-60 in 6.5...but mine has a chip and an aftermarket exhaust, so it has an extra 15-ish horsepower...
pfft.
The ANCIENT 220hp SHO was good for 6.7 seconds. Some mods and you're in low 6's. :rolleyes:
http://www.geocities.com/autobahnsho/candd6.html
[/SHO troll]
[hide]
Suck my 268hp Camry balls Autobahn. :rolleyes:
[/Camry Troll]
Hey Cat, you got any ins with the NYSP? I need them off the Thruway from late Dec. 15th into the wee hours of the 16th :praise:
Quote from: J86 on October 23, 2006, 05:59:34 PM
Hey Cat, you got any ins with the NYSP? I need them off the Thruway from late Dec. 15th into the wee hours of the 16th :praise:
No, sorry man.
Merde. Last exam ends at 10 PM, plane takes off from Logan at 6 AM. Need to be there at 4 AM... :lol:
Quote from: J86 on October 23, 2006, 09:06:33 PM
Merde. Last exam ends at 10 PM, plane takes off from Logan at 6 AM. Need to be there at 4 AM... :lol:
I can get you a 35 minute window, not more. But what's in it for me?
Quote from: Raza on October 24, 2006, 06:36:28 PM
I can get you a 35 minute window, not more.? But what's in it for me?
a new business venture, raz?! if the price is right, you would be a billionaire before you know it. i will gladly take a cut :cheers:!
Quote from: Atomic on October 25, 2006, 03:24:09 PM
a new business venture, raz?! if the price is right, you would be a billionaire before you know it. i will gladly take a cut :cheers:!
No problem. But, what's in it for me?
(http://static.flickr.com/85/280732743_7d570f4be1_b.jpg)
:rockon:
(http://www.inthejob.com/samike100_1718.jpg)
Those are ours.
Toronto cop cars are pathetic. Example : not too long ago, a guy stole sombody's 350Z and he was later found on the highway with the car and the cops were chasing him. Result? The 350Z topped out at max speed and got away
Australian police tend not to get into that many high-speed chases - they are quite rare.
Calgary Police Service will sick HAWC2 on high-speed chasees.
(http://www.alea.org/pics/images/hawc/050906/calgary-050906-001.jpg)
:lol:
Nice looking chopper! :ohyeah:
Indeed. Better than HAWC1, for sure.
(http://www.calgarypolice.ca/images/sections/support/hawc_link_1.jpg)
No gun turret?
No, no gun turret. The po-po in Canada don't deal in urban warfare. :tounge:
Quote from: 93JC on October 29, 2006, 11:46:41 PM
No, no gun turret. The po-po in Canada don't deal in urban warfare. :tounge:
What about out in the northwest territories? Grizzlies don't pack heat?
cat, nice nc hemi charger :ohyeah:! they did a great job w/ the color scheme and disguising the body side moldings. too many agencies leave off the protective strips from the front doors to display their crests -- leaving an odd look, eh?!
Quote from: Raza on October 30, 2006, 01:15:11 PM
What about out in the northwest territories?? Grizzlies don't pack heat?
Urban warfare? NWT? It's twice the size of Texas and home to only 40,000 people.
:lol:
No, grizzlies don't pack heat. They're deadly enough as it is. :tounge:
Quote from: Raza on October 30, 2006, 01:15:11 PM
What about out in the northwest territories? Grizzlies don't pack heat?
Go ask them yourself :lol:
Quote from: Catman on October 19, 2006, 05:53:21 AM
Turns out we are getting a Charger, just one.? It'll be a V6 and it's going to take four months to come in. :rolleyes:
That doesn't even make sense. thomas Dodge in Illinios has them on the lot right now. Dozens of them in every color all spot ligthed up and ready to go. Not all that long ago I went with some friends to Chicago and we stopped by there on a Satruday just to look around for my sheriff. They told us that it usually takes about 4-8 weeks to get a car.
Quote from: rohan on November 12, 2006, 12:55:25 PM
That doesn't even make sense.? thomas Dodge in Illinios has them on the lot right now.? Dozens of them in every color all spot ligthed up and ready to go.? Not all that long ago I went with some friends to Chicago and we stopped by there on a Satruday just to look around for my sheriff.? They told us that it usually takes about 4-8 weeks to get a car.
There's been issues here with distribution. MHQ in Marlboro MA is where most of the municipalities get their cars (Ford's). They didn't sell Dodge's but their sister dealer does. Chrysler doesn't want their cars being sold alongside the Ford's. MHQ will now sell them but not service them and no dealer has really stepped up to the fleet business yet. It's a mess right now. I've said it from day one, chrysler dropped the ball on distribution around here.
Quote from: Catman on November 12, 2006, 01:08:02 PM
There's been issues here with distribution.? MHQ in Marlboro MA is where most of the municipalities get their cars (Ford's).? They didn't sell Dodge's but their sister dealer does.? Chrysler doesn't want their cars being sold alongside the Ford's.? MHQ will now sell them but not service them and no dealer has really stepped up to the fleet business yet.? It's a mess right now.? I've said it from day one, chrysler dropped the ball on distribution around here.
Maybe you should cancel that order and wheel and deel with Tomas Dodge- they even upfit and ship with their own carrier. That's just insane and there's no reason for it. Any dealership can service it - if they want ot. We don't have any but I keep hoping.
By the way I'm going back to work next week. Decided I should because there's no reason for me not to once they move Tony.
Quote from: rohan on November 12, 2006, 07:10:14 PM
Maybe you should cancel that order and wheel and deel with Tomas Dodge- they even upfit and ship with their own carrier.? That's just insane and there's no reason for it.? Any dealership can service it - if they want ot.? We don't have any but I keep hoping.?
By the way I'm going back to work next week.? Decided I should because there's no reason for me not to once they move Tony.
I have enough to worry about on the technology end so I could care less about the cars. I don't drive them anyway except to go to lunch. Glad to see you're going back to work. Any change in Tony?
Quote from: Catman on November 12, 2006, 07:13:53 PM
I have enough to worry about on the technology end so I could care less about the cars.? I don't drive them anyway except to go to lunch.? Glad to see you're going back to work.? Any change in Tony?
Typical of stripes! They're all the same.
Katharine took her kids to see him today. The two younger ones wrote a story at school and I guess they read them to him. Kat told me one of them was really sad stroy and the other was really quite funny and they were both about their dad. They were all geeked because he gave small smile at the funny one and a tear rolled down his cheek on the sad one. It's been a about 4 hours since she told me that and everytime I think about it I start getting tears. It means he's still in there somewhere. :thumbsup: Kat told me I needed to go back to work. She told me I've done enough for them and it was time for her to start to take over again. She's going back to work on Monday too. Now I gotta find another apt! And I have 5 days to do it well really 4 cause I'm spending Thursday with Tony at his new place. Otherwise he's still kinda the same not much noticable improvemnetn yet. We hope for more in the next month according to doctors.
Quote from: rohan on November 12, 2006, 08:35:21 PM
Typical of stripes!? They're all the same.
Katharine took her kids to see him today.? The two younger ones wrote a story at school and I guess they read them to him.? Kat told me one of them was really sad stroy and the other was really quite funny and they were both about their dad.? They were all geeked because he gave small smile at the funny one and a tear rolled down his cheek on the sad one.? It's been a about 4 hours since she told me that and everytime I think about it I start getting tears.? It means he's still in there somewhere.? ?:thumbsup:? Kat told me I needed to go back to work.? She told me I've done enough for them and it was time for her to start to take over again.? She's going back to work on Monday too.? ?Now I gotta find another apt!? And I have 5 days to do it well really 4 cause I'm spending Thursday with Tony at his new place.? Otherwise he's still kinda the same not much noticable improvemnetn yet.? We hope for more in the next month according to doctors.
The fact that he's responding, even if it's small, is a good sign. Good luck on the apt hunting.
Quote from: Catman on November 12, 2006, 07:13:53 PM
I have enough to worry about on the technology end so I could care less about the cars.? I don't drive them anyway except to go to lunch.? Glad to see you're going back to work.? Any change in Tony?
Q:
do you take calls (requiring a response to the scene) from headquarters if need be during a lunch break in a cruiser?
Quote from: Atomic on November 17, 2006, 03:38:50 AM
Q:
do you take calls (requiring a response to the scene) from headquarters if need be during a? lunch break in a cruiser?
If need be
Quote from: Catman on November 17, 2006, 11:26:36 AM
If need be
notice... i resisted those donut shop shots, eh? :devil:?!
lol :lol:!
what an impressive sight! during the midst of a surprise flash flood, i had the pleasure of seeing countless dodge charger squad cars dispatched from our local county sheriff's department parking lot. these cars scattered in every direction :confused: !!!
fortunately, no one was killed or injuried and i knew that there would be little or no property damage; merely detours. otherwise, i would not have been so in awe of the rush of the charger r/t cruisers.
Quote from: dazzleman on May 13, 2006, 07:26:47 PM
The Chargers seem to be getting a great reception from law enforcement. I hope they do well. I'll keep my eye out to see if they pop up around my area.
NYPD has an unmarked charger patrolling the Hutch around Bay Plaza or I-95 near the Bronx-Westchester border
I saw a Charger police car for the Lemont, IL PD while I was back home on thanksgiving break. Looked like one scary mofo. :lol:
Quote from: 850CSi on November 27, 2006, 02:23:15 PM
I saw a Charger police car for the Lemont, IL PD while I was back home on thanksgiving break. Looked like one scary mofo.? :lol:
color scheme? a v6 or hemi v8?
talk about a mustang squad car? well, around here, the local officers and fleet managers are already anticipating an all new dodge challenger coupe police cruiser. would a 6.1 liter hemi v8 coupe give us more than what the current '07 5.7 liter hemi v8 charger delivers?
catman?
all others?
note: i know that this is speculative, but what the hell. it if fun :tounge:!
i just heard from a regional dodge dealership that the very popular dodge charger police will soon be offered in awd -- now that it's a new option on civilian models.
a good idea?
i say yes :ohyeah:!
Atomic: where did you get that pic in your sig? It would be an awesome wallpaper!
isn't it awesome?! catman found it for me. he's cool. just like the car :lol:!
Let me know when you're done with it so I can mooch it. :devil:
Quote from: TheIntrepid on January 27, 2007, 06:09:34 PM
Let me know when you're done with it so I can mooch it. :devil:
Do you do anything but steal pictures?
;)
my local dodge dealer told me this very day that our local city police department and the new york state trooper's department just order large fleets of hemi v8 dodge charger squad cars.
can any of you find information about the nys police department's alleged decision to replace all of it's crown victorias with chargers (and i believe magnums, too)?
he was right about our local city police department.
i could not confirm anything on the web about the state of ny.
thanks :ohyeah: !
Quote from: M_power on October 30, 2006, 10:59:46 PM
Go ask them yourself :lol:
Raza with shovel > Grizzlies packing heat.
Do you guys in the US ever see P.A.C.E.R cars?
I've seen pics of the PACER civic type-R's and PACER TSX's.
it's basically police and individuals "educating" <lol racers.. i got a pic of a civic typeR with a shitload of mods and sirens.. and a few weeks ago I saw a TSX with a pacer sticker.. undercover maybe?
Quote from: TheIntrepid on January 25, 2007, 04:20:00 PM
Atomic: where did you get that pic in your sig? It would be an awesome wallpaper!
damn! i wish i could remember what car that was. the bentley gtc? the last generation mercedes-benz cl? gee, how i wish they would stick and not all be replace whenever we change sigs!
Quote from: Atomic on April 22, 2007, 07:21:03 PM
damn! i wish i could remember what car that was. the bentley gtc? the last generation mercedes-benz cl? gee, how i wish they would stick and not all be replace whenever we change sigs!
It was the picture of the grey CL, front 3/4 angle. I have that pic in poster on my wall now.
The real reason for a column shifter was that the policeman needed a place to hang their donut.
Quote from: sparkplug on April 22, 2007, 10:59:34 PM
The real reason for a column shifter was that the policeman needed a place to hang their donut.
and that leaves space for a box of donut holes between the front seats :thumbsup: !
Our department got our test mule today- a v6 civilian version. Why the hell would you order a civi package for police service even to test I don't know???? One of my patrol LT's told me he thinks they sent the wrong car and it was supposed to be a RT civi package. He thinks they are sending it back but only the high ups know.
Our new captain just told me the other day all the new cars for this order batch will be Chargers with the v8. And in talking to some of the troops today I found that the new ones are 40 more horsies than the last ones we got. :wub:
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 11:14:53 AMOur new captain just told me the other day all the new cars for this order batch will be Chargers with the v8. And in talking to some of the troops today I found that the new ones are 40 more horsies than the last ones we got. :wub:
Lucky bastard! We're in the process of confiscating an all-black V8 Magnum that was being used in a theft ring we just busted. It hasn't been decided what we're gonna do with it (there's a rumor that the City Manager wants it, and we'd better get something damn good if the Chief bows down and gives it to him), but I'd love to take it for a spin and see what it can do. We have a V6 that's being used as a K9 unit, and I thought it was a bit of a dog (no pun intended :lol:).
Yeah except my car is a v6 and I won't get a new one til I hit 75k miles. It's only got 35k ish now. :cry:
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 11:41:14 AMYeah except my car is a v6 and I won't get a new one til I hit 75k miles. It's only got 35k ish now. :cry:
Awwww! Guess if you'd get out from behind that desk every once in a while and do some real police work, you'd have more miles on that car! :evildude: Frickin' butterbars... :devil:
:lol:
speaking of that- I'm running the shift traffic grants in the "real world" on Friday and Sunday 8am to 4pm. LOL That's gonna be soooo much fun.
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 11:45:28 AMspeaking of that- I'm running the shift traffic grants in the "real world" on Friday and Sunday 8am to 4pm. LOL That's gonna be soooo much fun.
Do you remember where the switch is to turn on the lightbar? Got any tickets that aren't dry rotted? You know it's cold outside and you actually might have to get out of the car, right? :lol:
Quote from: bing_oh on December 30, 2009, 11:52:17 AM
Do you remember where the switch is to turn on the lightbar? Got any tickets that aren't dry rotted? You know it's cold outside and you actually might have to get out of the car, right? :lol:
I'm :confused:
So :huh:
I'll probably just :zzz:
:winkguy:
My car doesn't have a light bar- it's got those cool little hidden flashy things. :lol:
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 11:54:37 AM
I'm :confused:
So :huh:
I'll probably just :zzz:
:winkguy:
My car doesn't have a light bar- it's got those cool little hidden flashy things. :lol:
Just have one of the road guys help ya you, Randy. I know you've been mouldering away behind that desk for awhile, so maybe they can do a little refresher FTO for ya! :devil:
Are you allowed to do straight traffic enforcement in Michigan in an unmarked? We're not allowed to under Ohio law, which kinda sucks.
Yea we can. Which is why my car gets used everytime by the grant guys. We have a couple other admin cars set up just like mine. One is a gold 05 impala (which honestly just isn't fair because it doesn't look like a cop car) and a black charger just like mine. hehehehehe We also use regular marked cars as well.
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 12:07:36 PMYea we can. Which is why my car gets used everytime by the grant guys. We have a couple other admin cars set up just like mine. One is a gold 05 impala (which honestly just isn't fair because it doesn't look like a cop car) and a black charger just like mine. hehehehehe We also use regular marked cars as well.
I love it when I get the chance to use an unmarked. We'll occasionally break out an admin or detective vehicle in the summer for bar patrol, and it's amazing what we catch that we'd never see in a marked cruiser. People just aren't used to departments using unmarked units for normal patrol work in my area, so they don't give anything without a lightbar a second glance.
LOL- yeah it's fun. But honestly when I came to this department we had Streethawks for overheads on white cars. I could be driving down a main road- anyroad really in the middle of a sunny bright day and catch people going 80/55. Did it all the time- easier now with the "invisible" bars we're all using. People just aren't tuned into what's going on around them at all-
So what you're saying is that your city's tax dollars are going towards you joyriding in a new 390 hp V8 Charger?
Not at all. I'm saying our county tax dollars are going towards working in a new 390 hp V8 Charger. (if I can ever get the miles on my take home car up over 75k)
This is just me being ignorant about how police forces work (hence the skepticism in the last post), but in daily driving, a good Crown Vic will be lucky to get 12-14 mpg for a police force. Yeah, it's huge, but it's not like a Charger or Impala can't do the same things.
A 390 hp Charger will eat fuel like it's Frosted Mini Wheats. Why should a police force get something like that, only getting 10-12 mpg on tax dollars instead of an Impala that may get upwards of 15 or 16 mpg?
It makes a big difference when you're logging 20-30k miles per car per year, doesn't it?
Quote from: bing_oh on December 30, 2009, 12:26:19 PM
I love it when I get the chance to use an unmarked. We'll occasionally break out an admin or detective vehicle in the summer for bar patrol, and it's amazing what we catch that we'd never see in a marked cruiser. People just aren't used to departments using unmarked units for normal patrol work in my area, so they don't give anything without a lightbar a second glance.
so not sporting :lol:
Quote from: the Teuton on December 30, 2009, 12:58:14 PMThis is just me being ignorant about how police forces work (hence the skepticism in the last post), but in daily driving, a good Crown Vic will be lucky to get 12-14 mpg for a police force. Yeah, it's huge, but it's not like a Charger or Impala can't do the same things.
A 390 hp Charger will eat fuel like it's Frosted Mini Wheats. Why should a police force get something like that, only getting 10-12 mpg on tax dollars instead of an Impala that may get upwards of 15 or 16 mpg?
It makes a big difference when you're logging 20-30k miles per car per year, doesn't it?
First, the V8 Charger has the Multi-Displacement System, which should pretty much even out the gas milage issue while still maintaining the ability for the quick acceleration and high speeds that are sometimes necessary in LE. Second, if you ask any patrol cop, they'll tell you that the Impala is ill-suited for LE. They're small, cramped, have maintenance issues, and don't have the same acceleration and speed that the CVPI's or (especially) V8 Chargers have.
LE vehicles aren't all about the best gas milage. As was explained in the CVPI thread, a police cruiser has to meet a certain set of criteria to actually be useful on the job. If that wasn't so, we'd be driving Yugos.
Quote from: the Teuton on December 30, 2009, 12:58:14 PM
This is just me being ignorant about how police forces work (hence the skepticism in the last post), but in daily driving, a good Crown Vic will be lucky to get 12-14 mpg for a police force. Yeah, it's huge, but it's not like a Charger or Impala can't do the same things.
A 390 hp Charger will eat fuel like it's Frosted Mini Wheats. Why should a police force get something like that, only getting 10-12 mpg on tax dollars instead of an Impala that may get upwards of 15 or 16 mpg?
It makes a big difference when you're logging 20-30k miles per car per year, doesn't it?
It's not ignorant it's a good question and one we have to deal with everytime the issue of ordering cars comes up. There's all sorts of variables weighed into ordering cars- we cover about 800 square miles from interstates to one lane dirt paths practically as a county sheriff department. We need the best mix of room- mileage- straightline performance- handling- braking- comfort- reliability- cost- safety- crash test results- and presence we can find. We are concerned with all of that. In our last couple years we've been purposely buying several different brands in a effort to find a good car that can do it all well. The CVPI does it all "good" but nothing "well" except room and there it's falls short of the old Caprice. We've found the Charger kills the CVPI on mileage and is better than about half way between the Ford and the Impala. Impala just doesn't have the room and it falls on it's face for handling. Like the CVPI it's doing everything "good" but not "well." With snow tires the Charger is easily better than the other 2 on slush and ice with the nannies and honestly the brakes last longer on the Charger which is in direct disagreement with what we read on LE forums. They just have the best of all the worlds excpet trunk room and it's almost as good as the impala. We've been looking at them all for a long time and the Charger just is the best car. Also in the county when the guys are just patrolling all the cars see at least 15mpg. The Ford gets about 15 the Charger is about 21 and the Impala is about 25. We've tested the v6 charger- we've got 4 of them and they do GREAT on gas but they just don't have the power we need in the county for long runs. When you push one the gas mileage falls way below the charger Hemi cars and so does the Impala because they are working harder. That help?
There is another school of thought and that's the power vs. economy of a patrol car. The economy side is obvious so I'm not gonna explain it but the power side is the argument goes that it is far safer if our officers have to catch a speeder when they can do it in half the distance.
If a guy goes by us at say 80 in a 55 and we're gonna try to catch him we have to use "closing speed" to gain on him. But first we gotta stop and turn around and then accelerate. If it takes a closing speed of say 110 to catch up to him and one car doesn't reach 110 for 1.5 miles ( but gets 25 miles per gallon) and it takes him say 4 miles to catch the speeder. while another car can get to 110 in say 0.5 miles (but gets 21mpg's on regular patrol) and it takes him 2.5 miles to catch the speeder- the risk management would call that an acceptable loss in gas economy in favor of risk reduction to both the department and the population because the officer is driving fast for almost half the distance.
Well then you need to see it from the real world's perspective. In our county- the out county- on a midnight shift the guys are assigned to districts. one maybe 2 patrols in one district. That one car has to be able to catch everything a normal person might drive because his back up or assistance could easily be 10 minutes away. If you live in my county- and a man breaks into your parents home rapes your mom and kills your dad- and he flees driving the car you have pictured in your sig wouldn't you want the men and women who have to apprehend him to be using the best car their administration can find?
Also the new Caprice will probably be 400 horse and do 0-6 in about 4.8 seconds.
edit- Teuton why'd you delete that post? It was a valid question. ??
Interesting. Yeah, that helps. Thanks. :ohyeah:
My roommate has a 1992 Caprice 5.7 liter TPI 9C1.
Now that is a big car, but even under his unleaded foot, it still only returns about 15 mpg in the city and about 25-30 on the highway. When it was used by some PD in New Jersey a long time ago, I can't imagine it did that well.
That's a full 4,000 pound car with only about 200 horse power. It's actually not bad for the age of the car.
edit- Also unless it was a LT-1 which I think came out in 94 it would've been throttle body not tuned port injection.
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 01:23:40 PM
edit- Teuton why'd you delete that post? It was a valid question. ??
I saw you posted some more while I was writing that, and I wanted to check to see if you answered my question.
I copied it just in case:
Ten years ago, the average family sedan probably could hit 60 mph in 8-10 seconds and topped out at 110-120. Today, the average family sedan can probably do the same thing in 6-8 seconds and top out at 120-140.
Most cars on the road are relatively slow still, and most people don't drive them well enough that acceleration should be a concern. Even the most experienced car booster probably couldn't out-drive your average Sunday autocrosser in traffic. I don't buy that anyone really needs a full-size sedan that can hit 60 mph in under 6 seconds to do police duty. That seems like overkill to me, especially since a) most police are pretty good drivers, and b) police have radios and a network of other patrol officers that can track down and surround a speeding criminal.
I can't see why anything more than a V6 Charger or Caprice (when it comes out) would be necessary.
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 12:49:55 PM
Not at all. I'm saying our county tax dollars are going towards working in a new 390 hp V8 Charger. (if I can ever get the miles on my take home car up over 75k)
I thought one of the advangtages of the CVPI was the body on frame construction which allowed many bodywork repairs to be made more cheaply than the unibody structure of a charger.
I'm sure it does bytme. I don't know much about the repair of body damage- and we have insurance to cover crashed cars. I'm still learning all the in's and out's of risk management so I can't answer that one fully. but honestly we don't have many cars get crashed - maybe 1-2 a year so it's really not an issue. Now the state police crash them all the time so it's probably a big issue. But everyone seems to be going with the impala these days and it has the same concern as the Charger would right? Maybe Greg or Bing could answer that one better than me.
Quote from: the Teuton on December 30, 2009, 01:27:28 PM
I saw you posted some more while I was writing that, and I wanted to check to see if you answered my question.
I copied it just in case:
Ten years ago, the average family sedan probably could hit 60 mph in 8-10 seconds and topped out at 110-120. Today, the average family sedan can probably do the same thing in 6-8 seconds and top out at 120-140.
Most cars on the road are relatively slow still, and most people don't drive them well enough that acceleration should be a concern. Even the most experienced car booster probably couldn't out-drive your average Sunday autocrosser in traffic. I don't buy that anyone really needs a full-size sedan that can hit 60 mph in under 6 seconds to do police duty. That seems like overkill to me, especially since a) most police are pretty good drivers, and b) police have radios and a network of other patrol officers that can track down and surround a speeding criminal.
Actually- that's a question for everyone- how pissed would you be?
I can't see why anything more than a V6 Charger or Caprice (when it comes out) would be necessary.
In my scenario above where your parents home in invaded by someone and their brutally assaulted- an honest question----- How pissed would you be if our department chose to use Impalas because of gas mileage when the guy was driving a car capable of 0-110 in 18 seconds and 150 top speed and he got away because of that? Because our people couldn't keep up with him?
Actually that's a good question for everyone- seriously- how pissed would you be in that case if we chose economy or performance and your families attacker got away because of it?
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 01:39:04 PM
Now the state police crash them all the time so it's probably a big issue.
Well you're in Michigan, so the State Police cars are probably whooshed into the air by the giant, single rotating light on top and the funky thing sticking out of the hood. :lol:
They claim it's tradition. Now they're switching the giant huge rotating bulb system to a the same housing but they've got four hug LED panels that blink randomly. It's ultra dumbass looking and honestly makes our state look like complete hickerbillyville. The side stop markers I actually like. They have been using them since they started patrolling with cars. They're very retro in my opinion. The also have a light and glow surprisingly they're actually really visable when they're on.
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 01:41:25 PM
In my scenario above where your parents home in invaded by someone and their brutally assaulted- an honest question----- How pissed would you be if our department chose to use Impalas because of gas mileage when the guy was driving a car capable of 0-110 in 18 seconds and 150 top speed and he got away because of that? Because our people couldn't keep up with him?
Actually that's a good question for everyone- seriously- how pissed would you be in that case if we chose economy or performance and your families attacker got away because of it?
:lol:
The attacker would be 2 miles away by the time the call was answered by the police. You'd need a Veyron to catch up with them then
I think I'm entirely ok with that.
I think your police force should all drive Priuses and Camry Hybrids.
HA! That's never gonna happen!