Cadillac CT5

Started by 2o6, March 19, 2019, 01:47:05 PM

GoCougs

Sad. So many hits by GM but this is gonna be yet another Caddy that no one is going to buy...

CALL_911

It reminds me of a Nissan Versa sedan


2004 S2000
2016 340xi

FoMoJo

Quote from: 2o6 on March 20, 2019, 01:20:19 PM
Also, remember this is basically a production version of the Escala concept.



Why the hell couldn't they make the production version look like the concept?  The concept looks good.  The production version looks like it ran into something that made it short and lumpy looking.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

giant_mtb

The concept looks like it should be a larger luxo-barge. 

giant_mtb

#34
Texted my GM buddy about the C-pillar, told him he was fired. :lol:  He works in powertrain, though.

Submariner

Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 20, 2019, 12:06:41 PM
They're not even facing the same way. Totally different :lol:

I do think the C-pillar looks a bit Korean. I can't find an exact car that it reminds me of, though.

2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

Gotta-Qik-C7

2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

FoMoJo

QuoteTo make sure the Blackwing version of the CT5 is up for the fight, Cadillac will fit an updated version of the CTS-V's 6.2-liter supercharged V-8, not the 550-hp twin-turbo 4.2-liter Blackwing V-8.

That's disappointing. :(

How can they call it a Blackwing?
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Gotta-Qik-C7

Quote from: FoMoJo on April 20, 2020, 05:25:04 AM
That's disappointing. :(

How can they call it a Blackwing?
Makes no sense!  :huh:
2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

Xer0

Stop complaining!!  Its a 650 hp monster that you can get with a 6spd, thats freaking great  :lol:

While I can't afford this thing, the CT5-V is also supposedly getting the stick and that at 47K is more in my price range and exciting!

MX793

Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C7 on April 19, 2020, 08:39:15 PM
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32094033/cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing-confirmed-2021/

I don't know who is working the branding and marketing group there, but they need to be reassigned to someplace they can't do further harm.  Like sweeping floors.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

GoCougs

Blackwing is a performance moniker akin to "AMG" or "NISMO" and is based on the earlier versions of the Caddy crest (which had black birds on it).

Pooprod magic is alive and well - no competitor can match GM's supercharged V8 for power + simplicity + compactness + weight - so this motor is mos def the right choice for the car.

FoMoJo

Quote from: GoCougs on April 20, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
Blackwing is a performance moniker akin to "AMG" or "NISMO" and is based on the earlier versions of the Caddy crest (which had black birds on it).

Pooprod magic is alive and well - no competitor can match GM's supercharged V8 for power + simplicity + compactness + weight - so this motor is mos def the right choice for the car.
So they spent years and a small fortune finally developing a modern V8 called the "Blackwing" and the only thing they kept was the name.  Just seems really goofy. 
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

SJ_GTI

#43
I'd be happy to have a CT5 with the 6.2L pooprod and no blower, if I am being honest. Basically a nicer version of the Chevy SS.

MX793

Quote from: GoCougs on April 20, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
Blackwing is a performance moniker akin to "AMG" or "NISMO" and is based on the earlier versions of the Caddy crest (which had black birds on it).

Pooprod magic is alive and well - no competitor can match GM's supercharged V8 for power + simplicity + compactness + weight - so this motor is mos def the right choice for the car.

Why is their latest Caddy-exclusive engine also branded "Blackwing" when it is not used in any Blackwing models?  Blackwing would be a great moniker for a performance trim, had they not used it for an engine that is used in regular versions of the CT6 and is not used in any of these new "Blackwing" models.

It would be like Ford releasing a new engine called the Cobrajet, putting it in the new Explorer, then building a series of performance versions of their other vehicles called "Cobrajet", but not using the Cobrajet engine in any of them.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

CaminoRacer

I have not been impressed with any car brands' marketing department in the past few years. They're all a mess. Cadillac has been a mess for years and this just continues the status quo.

The 6.2L 650 hp engine is the right choice. Calling the 550 hp engine the Blackwing is the problem.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

MX793

Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 20, 2020, 11:51:27 AM
I have not been impressed with any car brands' marketing department in the past few years. They're all a mess. Cadillac has been a mess for years and this just continues the status quo.

The 6.2L 650 hp engine is the right choice. Calling the 550 hp engine the Blackwing is the problem.

Yes, nothing wrong with the LT or LS engine they are using.  The problem is the use of the name "Blackwing" as both a trim and an unrelated engine.  If they wanted to use "Blackwing" as a trim, they should not have used it as their engine's name, unless they intended to use that engine (or variant thereof) in all Blackwing models.  Even then it would have been questionable, but not as confused as what they have now.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Xer0

I think you guys are getting too caught up in the name.  The Blackwing engine was used in such low numbers, and in only one model that no one bought, that no one has any association with it.  Its a cool name and Caddy decided that it was better used somewhere else before anyone had mentally associated it with anything else.

GoCougs

Definitely overthinking it. NISMO exhaust, TRD trim, AMG model, etc., etc.

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Xer0 on April 20, 2020, 01:29:16 PM
I think you guys are getting too caught up in the name.  The Blackwing engine was used in such low numbers, and in only one model that no one bought, that no one has any association with it.  Its a cool name and Caddy decided that it was better used somewhere else before anyone had mentally associated it with anything else.

True. TBH I never heard of the name until today :lol:
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

MX793

Quote from: GoCougs on April 20, 2020, 01:42:00 PM
Definitely overthinking it. NISMO exhaust, TRD trim, AMG model, etc., etc.

I will repeat myself

QuoteIt would be like Ford releasing a new engine called the Cobrajet, putting it in the new Explorer, then building a series of performance versions of their other vehicles called "Cobrajet", but not using the Cobrajet engine in any of them.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Xer0

Well no, that's not it at all.  The Blackwing engine was installed in about 1500 vehicles TOTAL from 2019-2020, all of them CT6's, and there are no plans to continue after 2020.  This engine is a one off, has no cache at all, and is associated with nothing.  Comparing it to something that sells thousands a month in a weird hypothetical is pointless. 

MX793

Quote from: Xer0 on April 20, 2020, 03:31:44 PM
Well no, that's not it at all.  The Blackwing engine was installed in about 1500 vehicles TOTAL from 2019-2020, all of them CT6's, and there are no plans to continue after 2020.  This engine is a one off, has no cache at all, and is associated with nothing.  Comparing it to something that sells thousands a month in a weird hypothetical is pointless. 

Why does quantity sold matter?

End of the day, Caddy has an engine and a trim line each called "Blackwing" that are completely unrelated to each other.  Would be one thing if the Blackwing engine was some long discontinued historical footnote.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Xer0

Quote from: MX793 on April 20, 2020, 03:47:48 PM
Why does quantity sold matter?

End of the day, Caddy has an engine and a trim line each called "Blackwing" that are completely unrelated to each other.  Would be one thing if the Blackwing engine was some long discontinued historical footnote.

You're more than welcome to correct me, but it seems like your point is that using "Blackwing" is confusing because its a name used elsewhere in the Caddy lineup and they both reference two completely different things.  First, its current application is so insignificant that not even the average car enthusiast is aware of it.  Second, the "Blackwing" engine is out of production and the CT4/CT5V Blackwing aren't even on offer yet.  For 99.9999% of the buying public the first time they will have heard of "Blackwing" will be with the CT4/CT5.  Quantity maters because if this thing sold like your hypothetical Explorer people would actually know about it and Cadillac would legitimately be confusing a decent amount of people.  But that isn't the case at all.

MX793

Quote from: Xer0 on April 20, 2020, 04:01:04 PM
You're more than welcome to correct me, but it seems like your point is that using "Blackwing" is confusing because its a name used elsewhere in the Caddy lineup and they both reference two completely different things.  First, its current application is so insignificant that not even the average car enthusiast is aware of it.  Second, the "Blackwing" engine is out of production and the CT4/CT5V Blackwing aren't even on offer yet.  For 99.9999% of the buying public the first time they will have heard of "Blackwing" will be with the CT4/CT5.  Quantity maters because if this thing sold like your hypothetical Explorer people would actually know about it and Cadillac would legitimately be confusing a decent amount of people.  But that isn't the case at all.

OK, let me fix it so that we can have equal quantities.

Ford releases some super fancy Lincoln Continental trim called the "Ultra" featuring an all new engine called "Cobrajet".  Said Lincoln sells like air conditioners in Antarctica for 2 years and is quietly slated for discontinuation.  Before the Continental Ultra's, and "Cobrajet" engine's, corpse is even cold, Ford announces they will be releasing a new performance line for several of their vehicles called "Cobrajet".  None of said vehicles will utilize the recently released, and now slated to be discontinued, Cobrajet engine.

Blackwing is an awesome name for a trim level or even a performance division.  They shouldn't have wasted it on an engine that only utilized in a poorly selling model.

Second issue is the notion that GM developed an all new, clean-sheet motor for Caddy only to use it in a single, super low volume model for like 2 years.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Xer0

Quote from: MX793 on April 20, 2020, 04:12:34 PM
OK, let me fix it so that we can have equal quantities.

Ford releases some super fancy Lincoln Continental trim called the "Ultra" featuring an all new engine called "Cobrajet".  Said Lincoln sells like air conditioners in Antarctica for 2 years and is quietly slated for discontinuation.  Before the Continental Ultra's, and "Cobrajet" engine's, corpse is even cold, Ford announces they will be releasing a new performance line for several of their vehicles called "Cobrajet".  None of said vehicles will utilize the recently released, and now slated to be discontinued, Cobrajet engine.

Blackwing is an awesome name for a trim level or even a performance division.  They shouldn't have wasted it on an engine that only utilized in a poorly selling model.

Yes it is an awesome, which is why its no longer being wasted on an engine for a car that no one bought.  Names are just marketing tools and ways to differentiate products and this name has virtually no cache.  And as for the Lincoln example, sure why not, they decided that the marketing would be better used somewhere while the name is still not wasted.

QuoteSecond issue is the notion that GM developed an all new, clean-sheet motor for Caddy only to use it in a single, super low volume model for like 2 years.

Not gonna argue with that, its a waste of money but re-purposing the name is a GOOD move, not a bad one.

FoMoJo

My only point is, they spent countless millions for

this...



and they ended up with this...

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

GoCougs

Hmmm. Trying hard for that W. IMO still way overthinking it. Near countless examples of marge performance branding applying to divisions, models, trims, parts RAM, TRD, NISMO, AMG, etc.

Cadillac was under no delusions that the CT6 was a low volume seller, and a $100k CT6 was going to be even more so, as evidenced with the 2nd and 3rd gen CTS-V. However, Cadillac's volume unit; the Escalade; and the rest of GM's V8 lineup and its competition, is as we've seen, better served with N/A pooprod motors, so that's not happening.

Here's my bet as to what happened. The logical goal was to use the Blackwing V8 in the mid/upper trim big Caddy sedan and new XT6. Thing is, by the time the engine was done, Tesla changed the luxury car market, so GM "pivoted" away to devote efforts there. Also, GM sold the Blackwing to a boutique automaker, so not a total loss.

MX793

#58
Quote from: GoCougs on April 20, 2020, 07:10:37 PM
Hmmm. Trying hard for that W. IMO still way overthinking it. Near countless examples of marge performance branding applying to divisions, models, trims, parts RAM, TRD, NISMO, AMG, etc.


And you are still completely missing the point.  Toyota doesn't build an engine codenamed or branded "the TRD".  Nissan doesn't build an engine named the "NISMO".  Mercedes doesn't build an engine called the AMG.  The TRD, NISMO, and AMG brands are exclusively "performance" lines, trims, or divisions.  Caddy has both an engine and an unrelated trim line branded as "Blackwing".

Cadillac already has a performance trim line.  It's called the V series.  I'm fine with that.  I liked the V cars.  If GM wants to ape Mercedes and add further tiers to the V line, like making a V-Ultra or whatever, fine.  Re-using the moniker of a recent new engine as that new super trim line, when the cars in that line don't use said engine, seems silly.  It would be like Ford coming out with a new, hyper Focus one notch above the RS and calling it the Focus RS Voodoo, powered by a 2.3L Ecoboost.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

FoMoJo

Quote from: GoCougs on April 20, 2020, 07:10:37 PM
Hmmm. Trying hard for that W. IMO still way overthinking it. Near countless examples of marge performance branding applying to divisions, models, trims, parts RAM, TRD, NISMO, AMG, etc.

Cadillac was under no delusions that the CT6 was a low volume seller, and a $100k CT6 was going to be even more so, as evidenced with the 2nd and 3rd gen CTS-V. However, Cadillac's volume unit; the Escalade; and the rest of GM's V8 lineup and its competition, is as we've seen, better served with N/A pooprod motors, so that's not happening.

Here's my bet as to what happened. The logical goal was to use the Blackwing V8 in the mid/upper trim big Caddy sedan and new XT6. Thing is, by the time the engine was done, Tesla changed the luxury car market, so GM "pivoted" away to devote efforts there. Also, GM sold the Blackwing to a boutique automaker, so not a total loss.
Not quite...https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/cadillac-blackwing-v8-new-stratos-mat/

QuoteCadillac's Blackwing V8 won't live within new Stratos maker after all

MAT originally said it received a license for the engine; GM said that's not the case.

Cadillac's twin-turbo 4.2-liter Blackwing V8 will absolutely become a collector's item. After the engine, originally meant as a Cadillac exclusive, only made its way to a single car, the company abandoned it altogether. Cadillac CT6-V owners, I wouldn't let go of your cars, like, ever.

Although the engine was rumored to find a home at Manifattura Automobili Torino, that's unfortunately not the case. Hagerty last Friday reported Cadillac's Blackwing engine would serve a new MAT project in the near future. MAT, the company behind the reborn Stratos project, knows how to build some incredible machines.

I guess they'll be stuck using a Ferrari engine. ;)
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."