Lexus LS Facelift To Get 600h V8-Powered Hybrid And Four-Cylinder Turbo?

[cawimmer430]

Lexus LS Facelift To Get 600h V8-Powered Hybrid And Four-Cylinder Turbo?

Unlike its predecessor, the fifth generation Lexus LS cannot be had with a V8 engine, but not all is lost, as the eight-banger is rumored to return for the 2021 or 2022 model year, with the facelifted iteration of the car.

The news comes via Japan's Mag-X, which in its June issue claims that Toyota's luxury brand is working on a new hybrid V8 to be added to the lineup. If it's true, then that means that Lexus might revive the LS 600h moniker that was buried with the fourth generation flagship sedan.



No other details are known about the powertrain, but the old LS 600h came with a 5.0-liter V8, with electric assistance, boasting 439 horsepower. Even without any updates, that's already a big improvement compared to the current LS 500 and LS 500h, which boast 416 and 354 horsepower respectively.


Four-cylinder turbo too?

More surprisingly, the Japanese car magazine says that the LS family could be expanded to include a four-pot turbo option that might fill the empty space left by the demise of the GS. It's impossible to verify this rumor at this point, but even if the flagship sedan will launch with a four-cylinder engine, it's not certain that it will be available in North America. For what it's worth, BMW, Mercedes and Audi do offer 4-cylinder versions of their flagship sedans in some markets.

As for the mid-cycle refresh, it looks like the LS will bring a new front bumper that will continue to incorporate the huge spindle grille. The publication shared an image of a prototype that had the front end covered up. The facelifted LS might also welcome an advanced semi-autonomous driving system.


Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2020/04/lexus-ls-facelift-to-get-600h-v8-powered-hybrid-and-four-cylinder-turbo/

[FoMoJo]

Nice lines, the grille is still a bit startling though.

[Xer0]

Good.  The current 500h sounds like a bit of a lame-duck and with the German's taking the hybrid and electronic HP race to obscene numbers Lexus can't just sit there twiddling its thumbs with 350hp and barely better MPG. 

[veeman]

Of all the large car saloons (not including supercars), this is my favorite.  4 cylinder turbos suit these types of cars all wrong.  Just wrong. 

[cawimmer430]

I don't think the addition of an efficient 4-cylinder in this class  is wrong at all. It most likely won't speak to many private buyers who want the status of more cylinders, but it's the engine of choice for luxury hotel fleets who are looking at lower fuel costs. I say go for it.

[veeman]

I think if they were that concerned about fuel economy or the environment they would get the hybrid and pay the extra premium.  More likely interested in the discount price.  Passengers who know about cars would be able to tell but the majority of passengers wouldn't know and the hotel customers aren't driving the car anyways. 

[GoCougs]

It's just some mag talking about a turbo 4 - nothing official from Toyota.

Such an engine in a car like this is indeed nonsensical, and not only because in such a big heavy car the MPG advantage will very small if anything.

[MX793]

It's just some mag talking about a turbo 4 - nothing official from Toyota.

Such an engine in a car like this is indeed nonsensical, and not only because in such a big heavy car the MPG advantage will very small if anything.

It's not about real world fuel economy, it's about gaming fuel economy tests and displacement taxes.  BMW offers the 7 series with a 2.0T 4-banger in certain markets.  MB offers a 4-cylinder diesel in the S class.

[veeman]

I wonder what the profit margin is on these weak sauce flagship sedans with the weak engines compared with the normal engines.  It's a discount price I know but I wonder if the profit margin per car is actually higher because of the cheaper to make engine. 

[MX793]

I wonder what the profit margin is on these weak sauce flagship sedans with the weak engines compared with the normal engines.  It's a discount price I know but I wonder if the profit margin per car is actually higher because of the cheaper to make engine. 

The tiny engines are mostly marketed in places where it's nigh impossible to purchase a vehicle with a larger engine due to displacement taxes, etc.

[Laconian]

2.0L turbo 4 is code for "I want to sell in China".

[GoCougs]

It's not about real world fuel economy, it's about gaming fuel economy tests and displacement taxes.  BMW offers the 7 series with a 2.0T 4-banger in certain markets.  MB offers a 4-cylinder diesel in the S class.

Sales volume on the LS is so low I trouble to envision any sort of improvement in CAFE, and the current Chinese and Japanese market (both of which have displacement taxes) is V6. Beyond that, in car this big and heavy, I'd be skeptical that the mpg test could even be gamed. Look to GM's PR disaster with the I-4 Silverado - but 1 mpg (combined) advantage vs. the 5.3L V8 (20 vs. 19 mpg).

[cawimmer430]

I think if they were that concerned about fuel economy or the environment they would get the hybrid and pay the extra premium.  More likely interested in the discount price.  Passengers who know about cars would be able to tell but the majority of passengers wouldn't know and the hotel customers aren't driving the car anyways. 

A modern 4-cylinder [turbo] can be smooth and quiet, see my new car for instance. I've often stated that the refinement is utterly amazing (especially once it's warm).

Maybe they will couple this theoretical 4-cylinder to an electric motor and create a more "efficient" car.

[veeman]

A modern 4-cylinder [turbo] can be smooth and quiet, see my new car for instance. I've often stated that the refinement is utterly amazing (especially once it's warm).

Maybe they will couple this theoretical 4-cylinder to an electric motor and create a more "efficient" car.

Yeah but you have a small car though Wimmer. 

I have a 4 cylinder Camry.  It's fine.  No complaints. I can tell right away the difference though when I drive it vs a 6 cylinder Camry and I can tell pretty readily the difference when I'm a passenger in one. The 6 is just better. Smoother and quieter with less obvious gear changes during acceleration.  Also as Cougs was saying, doubt much fuel economy advantage. Probably a more break down prone engine especially with the turbo.  I think it's a displacement tax issue like MX793 was saying and also a way to get more fleet purchases who can get a flagship large saloon sedan at a significant discount. 

Maybe if they offer the 4 cylinder turbo with hybrid set up it'll be OK but I don't think they're doing that (or planning to do that).

[cawimmer430]

Yeah but you have a small car though Wimmer. 

I have a 4 cylinder Camry.  It's fine.  No complaints. I can tell right away the difference though when I drive it vs a 6 cylinder Camry and I can tell pretty readily the difference when I'm a passenger in one. The 6 is just better. Smoother and quieter with less obvious gear changes during acceleration.  Also as Cougs was saying, doubt much fuel economy advantage. Probably a more break down prone engine especially with the turbo.  I think it's a displacement tax issue like MX793 was saying and also a way to get more fleet purchases who can get a flagship large saloon sedan at a significant discount. 

Maybe if they offer the 4 cylinder turbo with hybrid set up it'll be OK but I don't think they're doing that (or planning to do that).

Most E-Classes sold in Germany are powered by 4-cylinders and they do just fine. The S-Class isn't that much heavier in the grand scheme of things. I once drove an W211 E200 Kompressor and it was perfectly fine for daily driving and not underpowered. It only began to struggle past 150 km/h, a speed which in most countries is not even allowed on the highway.

I still think a market exists for these cars, especially in the premium hotel/chauffeur sector. And as you guys said, some countries have horrendous taxes on engine displacement, fuel prices etc. so such a car makes sense. Just because someone can afford this car doesn't mean they do not care about fuel economy.


Oh, and check this out. 


2020 Mercedes-Benz CLS 260 Gains Tiny 1.5L Four-Cylinder Engine In China

In an attempt to make the CLS as affordable as it can, Mercedes-Benz China has launched a new entry-level model that's powered by a tiny gasoline engine.

Dubbed the CLS 260, it slots under the 300 and 350 in the People's Republic, and features a 1.5-liter turbocharged four-pot. Shared with the smaller C-Class, the lump develops an identical 181 HP (184 PS / 135 kW) at 6,100 rpm and 207 lb-ft (280 Nm) of torque from 3,000 to 4,000 rpm.

The power is channeled to the rear wheels through a nine-speed automatic transmission and, in this form, the CLS 260 can accelerate to 62 mph (100 km/h) in 8.7 seconds and reach a 155 mph (250 km/h) top speed. The average fuel consumption, according to the local standard, is 32.7 mpg US (7.2 l/100 km).

Pricing starts at 576,800 yuan, which equals to $81,332 at the current exchange rates and looks like a lot of money to pay on a four-cylinder CLS, especially considering what happens in other markets.

In the United States, for example, Mercedes is asking a minimum of $69,950 for the entry-level CLS 450. However, this model packs a 3.0-liter turbocharged six-cylinder engine delivering 362 HP and 369 lb-ft (500 Nm). The CLS 450 sprints to 60 mph (96 km/h) in 5.1 seconds with rear-wheel drive and 4.8 seconds with four-wheel drive. The latter variant has an MSRP of $72,450.

For the equivalent of $62,440 (€57,792), German customers can choose the CLS 220d diesel powered by a 192 HP (194 PS / 143 kW) 2.0-liter turbo-four engine enabling a 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) sprint of 7.5 seconds and 147 mph (237 km/h) top speed. The CLS 350 petrol variant starts at €63,468 ($68,573) and has 295 HP (299 PS / 220 kW), covering 0-62 mph in 5.9 seconds and reaching a top speed limited to 155 mph (250 km/h).


Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2020/05/2020-mercedes-benz-cls-260-gains-tiny-1-5l-four-cylinder-engine-in-china/