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Auto Talk => The Garage => Topic started by: giant_mtb on September 15, 2005, 07:27:07 PM

Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 15, 2005, 07:27:07 PM
Alright so my brother's '93 Explorer isn't working very well.  It wouldn't start a few days ago so we replaced the battery and it started.  But then after shutting it off, it wouldn't start back up and the electricity (lighting) was very weak.  Then today he tried and again and it started right up.  Then, again, when he turned it off, it wouldn't start back up.

What the heck is goin' on?!
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: Run Away on September 15, 2005, 07:40:34 PM
Check your grounds, specifically the negative battery cable.

Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 15, 2005, 07:41:17 PM
QuoteCheck your grounds, specifically the negative battery cable.
Yeah...the battery is connected properly.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: TBR on September 15, 2005, 07:43:22 PM
It might be the alternator.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 15, 2005, 07:44:07 PM
QuoteIt might be the alternator.
We just had that replaced...would a bad alternator affect it so bad that it will make it impossible for the engine to even turn over?  I mean you turn the key and nothing happens...absolutely nothing.  The lights barely come on.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: TBR on September 15, 2005, 07:46:52 PM
The problem is a dead battery, which is a symptom of a bad alternator. Try jumping it.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: MX793 on September 15, 2005, 07:46:53 PM
Possibly a short somewhere in the ignition switch?
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 15, 2005, 07:47:24 PM
QuoteThe problem is a dead battery, which is a symptom of a bad alternator. Try jumping it.
Jumping it starts it.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 15, 2005, 07:48:13 PM
Man I'm stumped.  :(  
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: TBR on September 15, 2005, 07:48:18 PM
Then I bet it is the alternator or something related to it. If jumping it works then the either the battery is at the end of its life or it just isn't getting charged.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 15, 2005, 07:48:50 PM
QuoteThen I bet it is the alternator or something related to it. If jumping it works then the either the battery is at the end of its life or it just isn't getting charged.
We just put in a brand new battery yesterday...  ;)  
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: Run Away on September 15, 2005, 07:49:12 PM
It wouldn't be the alternator...a car can run for 20+ minutes on battery alone depending on # of cylinders and what other electrical systems are running.

I don't mean where the battery is connected, I mean the other end of the negative battery cable. It should be grounded somewhere (on my car it's on the transmission).

It seems like there is a loose conection somewhere most likely near the battery, as it effects all electrical systems (lighting AND the starter) and not just one specific component.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 15, 2005, 07:50:49 PM
QuoteIt wouldn't be the alternator...a car can run for 20+ minutes on battery alone depending on # of cylinders and what other electrical systems are running.

I don't mean where the battery is connected, I mean the other end of the negative battery cable. It should be grounded somewhere (on my car it's on the transmission).

It seems like there is a loose conection somewhere most likely near the battery, as it effects all electrical systems (lighting AND the starter) and not just one specific component.
Possibly.  I guess I'll have to find that somehow.  :(   Because for now it's stuck in our garage/driveway...unless we get it towed.  <_<  
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: TBR on September 15, 2005, 07:51:41 PM
QuoteIt wouldn't be the alternator...a car can run for 20+ minutes on battery alone depending on # of cylinders and what other electrical systems are running.

I don't mean where the battery is connected, I mean the other end of the negative battery cable. It should be grounded somewhere (on my car it's on the transmission).

It seems like there is a loose conection somewhere most likely near the battery, as it effects all electrical systems (lighting AND the starter) and not just one specific component.
Oops, I misread his post. I assumed it had been driven.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: 280Z Turbo on September 15, 2005, 07:56:26 PM
Perhaps some new battery cables would cure it.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 15, 2005, 07:57:16 PM
What I don't understand is why after a certain amount of time it will gladly start up...but then after running it for less then a minute and turn it off, it won't start back up...
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: TBR on September 15, 2005, 08:06:49 PM
call cartalk!  
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: 280Z Turbo on September 15, 2005, 08:14:34 PM
It could very well be an electronic glitch.

From my experience, posting here in the garage won't help. We can only guess and no one here is an Explorer expert.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: MX793 on September 15, 2005, 10:27:33 PM
QuoteThen I bet it is the alternator or something related to it. If jumping it works then the either the battery is at the end of its life or it just isn't getting charged.
If the alternator is gone, then the car won't run long, especially if the battery is weak.  A friend of mine had the alternator go on her Cavalier.  I jumped started her car and it made it all of two miles before it quit.  Jumped it again and it made it a few hundred feet.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 16, 2005, 04:55:30 AM
I don't know why the alternator would be shot...it was just replaced.  So if it is the alternator it was assembled or put in improperly or something...which I'm a bit skeptical to believe.  There has to be something else to it...
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: ifcar on September 16, 2005, 05:04:05 AM
I'd post this on C/D. You can get a lot more second opinions there, and there's a better chance that someone will immidiately know the exact problem.  
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 16, 2005, 05:15:10 AM
Good idea. ^_^
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: Run Away on September 16, 2005, 11:02:34 AM
There's a few people here that are Ford Techs too I think. That guy with the Saab...ArchAngel?
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: Champ on September 16, 2005, 11:18:56 AM
Check also the voltage regulator on the alternater.  Mine went out on the 87 saab, similar symptoms.  Acts basically like the alternater does not work.  Would charge the battery.  VR's are substantially cheaper than alternaters.  This part is most likely attached to the alternater.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: Raza on September 16, 2005, 12:00:44 PM
I have no effing clue.  
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: TBR on September 16, 2005, 03:13:13 PM
QuoteThere's a few people here that are Ford Techs too I think. That guy with the Saab...ArchAngel?
He's registered as JWC, but his sn at C/D is ArcAngel.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: JWC on September 16, 2005, 05:49:27 PM
QuoteThere's a few people here that are Ford Techs too I think. That guy with the Saab...ArchAngel?
ArcAngel, not "ARCH". Jeez. :lol:

Only a guess, but I'd say the starter has an intermittent short; (solenoid to be more precise).

I just went through a very similar experience with a Taurus. The battery failed a CCA test the first time in, so we replaced it. Three days later, the guy calls from Raleigh and says it acting up again. No click or clicking, just won't crank, as if it has no juice.  He drove in from Raleigh, after having it jumped. We couldn't look at it Wednesday afternoon, and it seem to be OK for the moment, so he decided to keep driving. Thursday he calls. Broke down in a parking lot, won't crank. We towed it in, rechecked it. The battery was marginal, though we had just installed it. (NAPA brand).  Everything seemed fine afterward. He picked the car up, called thirty minutes later from Lowes...same problem. Towed it back in..rechecked with the VAT40, everything was fine. TAP tested the starter, cranked right up. Replaced the starter and haven't heard from him since.

(In case you're unfamiliar with a TAP test....you "tap" the starter with a brass hammer :D ).
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: Run Away on September 17, 2005, 12:51:32 PM
Yeah but what about the interior lights being dim when it doesn't want to start, then back to normal a few minutes later when it works?
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: JWC on September 17, 2005, 01:04:58 PM
QuoteYeah but what about the interior lights being dim when it doesn't want to start, then back to normal a few minutes later when it works?
The short is causing a drain on the electrical current after starting the car. After the car sits awhile, the current comes back up in the battery. Of course, I'm just venturing a guess since I'm not there to see exactly what it is doing.

He has a new battery and alternator and I'm venturing he has taken previous advice and rechecked his grounds and battery-to-starter cables, including the wires from the ignition switch to the relay and solenoid. If all that is fine, which is what we found on the Taurus, then the next item on the list is the starter.

Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 17, 2005, 01:23:18 PM
Well I have not checked the ground points because I have no idea how to find them...there isn't much visibility under the hood of that car.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: JWC on September 17, 2005, 01:46:14 PM
QuoteWell I have not checked the ground points because I have no idea how to find them...there isn't much visibility under the hood of that car.
Two words:

Shop light

or


flash light
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: giant_mtb on September 17, 2005, 05:06:58 PM
Quote
QuoteWell I have not checked the ground points because I have no idea how to find them...there isn't much visibility under the hood of that car.
Two words:

Shop light

or


flash light
That's not what I mean...I have light...but it's ridiculously cramped and crowded under the hood...I don't know how I'm gonna find the ground.
Title: Something's messed up here...
Post by: JWC on September 17, 2005, 05:33:39 PM
Are you friendly with any dealers in the area? We routinely copy pages from the EVTM manuals and service manuals for folks needing info.