2019 BMW 3 Series G20: This Is It!
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/10/355a20a6-2019-bmw-3-series-m-sport-package-5.jpg)
Ladies and gentlemen, here's the all-new BMW 3 Series G20 in all its glory, courtesy of the automaker's leaked car configurator.
Picked up by the BimmerPost forum and brought to our attention by reader Al, the configurator shows various models in the 3 Series lineup, including the range-topping M340i, the M Sport Package, the Sport Line, as well as various interior configurations.
Our first impression is that the G20 looks better proportioned than its predecessor, as well as more aggressive. That has a lot to do with the front end that features a new design for the headlights (available as LEDs or with laser technology) and a more sculpted bumper. The flatter taillights are quite different from those of the predecessor model as well, helping make the car look wider.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/10/4cccb93f-2019-bmw-3-series-vermont-bronze.jpg)
Viewed from the side, the longer wheelbase is quite obvious, and it contributes to giving the car a more elegant profile. The M340i and M Sport Package cars shown in the gallery display the most aggressive aero kit, with large side intakes in the front bumper and creases that flow from the headlights.
The models also feature sharper side sills and a vented rear bumper with two round exhaust tips (330i M Sport Package) or trapezoidal exhausts (M340i) on each side. Finally, there are four new exterior colors available: Dravit Grey, Tansanit Blue II, Citrin Black II, and Vermont Bronze.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/10/f3d90e3d-2019-bmw-3-series-interior-11.jpg)
As for the interior, we get to see the 12.3-inch configurable digital instrument panel once again, the 10.25-inch central touchscreen display, the new sports seats, the new controls for the climate control area, and the new steering wheels.
Overall, the cabin appears to be a big step forward, both in terms of design and quality. Curiously, there's no gearshift lever on the center console for the models equipped with the Sport Automatic transmission. However, we can't spot any transmission buttons either, so this one remains a mystery for now.
As always, one would have to spec the optional appearance packages to make the 3 Series look its best, but the lower-spec Sport Line model doesn't look half bad. Stay tuned for more on the G20 3 Series as its official reveal is just around the corner at the Paris Motor Show that starts tomorrow.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/10/83e5207c-2019-bmw-3-series-m-sport-package-3.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/10/3125d371-2019-bmw-3-series-interior-13.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/10/923cda50-2019-bmw-3-series-sport-line.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/10/832b3a6f-2019-bmw-340i-6.jpg)
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2018/10/2019-bmw-3-series-g20-this-is-it/
Very conservative. Too conservative actually. The good part of that is that it won't make my just bought M3 look that dated immediately.
If they improved the dynamics and if they bring a competitive EV version at some point are the key questions IMO.
The 3er segment is really, really crowded these days - and sedan sales are in decline so BMW faces more pressure for this model than ever. Fortunately they are doing their SUV's right to stay healthy in the short term.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 01, 2018, 08:12:29 AM
Very conservative. Too conservative actually. The good part of that is that it won't make my just bought M3 look that dated immediately.
If they improved the dynamics and if they bring a competitive EV version at some point are the key questions IMO.
The 3er segment is really, really crowded these days - and sedan sales are in decline so BMW faces more pressure for this model than ever. Fortunately they are doing their SUV's right to stay healthy in the short term.
Are they working on an EV version of the 3-series? I presume they are working on EV's, but with the way the market is going I would also have assumed they would be working on a CUV EV.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on October 01, 2018, 08:20:39 AM
Are they working on an EV version of the 3-series? I presume they are working on EV's, but with the way the market is going I would also have assumed they would be working on a CUV EV.
There are some conflicting rumors about it. EV mules have been spotted. I do think the Tesla 3 is the biggest competitive threat to BMW today.
From what I understand the CLAR platform can accommodate anything on the ICE-EV gradient. BMW is just gauging market interest before they speak on offerings (which seems a bit late at this point)
Thoughts:
- Supposedly 340 will be xi + auto only. The market is the market :(
- Nose is ugly and busy. Almost looks like an Infiniti
- They fucked up the kink
- Taillights:
(https://inventory-cf.assets-cdk.com/9/8/4/17617618489x640.jpg)
(http://releasedatesautos.com/wp-content/uploads/car-photos/2018-Lexus-RC-350-rear-view-taillights.jpg)
Looking to see what they do with the hybrid/EV versions... but F30 330e is still my pick
(https://media.giphy.com/media/phwYIvkKMa9Pi/giphy.gif)
I can tell it has changed a little, but this looks shockingly similar to the existing car.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2018, 11:15:22 AM
RWD 340i is confirmed as is AWD 340d
From what I understand the CLAR platform can accommodate anything on the ICE-EV gradient. BMW is just gauging market interest before they speak on offerings (which seems a bit late at this point)
Thoughts:
- Supposedly 340 will be xi + auto only. The market is the market :(
- Nose is ugly and busy. Almost looks like an Infiniti
- They fucked up the kink
- Taillights:
(https://inventory-cf.assets-cdk.com/9/8/4/17617618489x640.jpg)
(http://releasedatesautos.com/wp-content/uploads/car-photos/2018-Lexus-RC-350-rear-view-taillights.jpg)
Looking to see what they do with the hybrid/EV versions... but F30 330e is still my pick
It sort of looks like e60 grade Japanese styling influence nobody liked back in the day
Yawn.
I don't like the new M Sport steering wheel at all
... Also not crazy about all digital Guage on a performance car...
Quote from: r0tor on October 01, 2018, 03:05:21 PM
I don't like the new M Sport steering wheel at all
... Also not crazy about all digital Guage on a performance car...
It's a performance car not an antique
(https://store.racepak.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/p-311-iq3displaydash2.jpg)
Yea, that's great for a stripped out race car.
In a sports sedan i would rather have a nice classics analog gauge set. Clear, concise, non distacting, and legible. I want a car with passion and driver focus. I want a Swiss chronograph and not a stupid Iwatch to go with the iPad stuck on the dash.
Swiss chronograph to iPad analogy is apt....
iPad keeps laser accurate time and displays it clearly, Swiss chronographs do not. Well designed digital dashes are very driver focused, displaying info relevant to performance driving clearly and accurately.
I am not using antique as a pejorative; I think there is a place for analog gauges in cars. I'm not sure a cutting edge tech driven sedan like the G20 3 is that. Literally every 3er up to this point has the gauges you seek so there is plenty of choice... but I don't think this car is the place for nostalgia honestly.
"a cutting edge tech driven sedan"
That was exactly the problem with the F30. The focus was on tech and not driving or the driving experience.
A Swiss chronograph has character - you hear it, you feel it winding, it's a joy to look at the mechanical hits moving. Those things can never be improved upon by electronics.
You can't hear or feel gauges in a dashboard, nor see its mechanical bits moving.... plus as the pics show there is an "analog gauge" mode. Functionally what's the difference?
And the F30 had analog gauges. The tech was not the issue with its driving dynamics; bubble gum analog subframe bushings and bullshit run flat tires were.
Ok why the hell did they already jump to G from F30? They spent decades in the E's.
I think the digital dash is ok and frankly inevitable for the class it competes in. Any less and it would be perceived as "falling behind" by most buyers. Not enough swiss cronograph fans to make up for that.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 01, 2018, 07:51:11 PM
Ok why the hell did they already jump to G from F30? They spent decades in the E's.
Model explosion maybe.
Real pics look much better.....
https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1540840
It is a shame that they got rid of the signature round LED daytime driving lamps.
There are analog gauges available, at least in Europe.
(https://imgr2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/BMW-3er-Leak-fotoshowBig-a00d8824-1191869.jpg)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 01, 2018, 07:51:11 PM
Ok why the hell did they already jump to G from F30? They spent decades in the E's.
Because F models almost across the bmw model range were not very good.
Quote from: Galaxy on October 01, 2018, 09:05:36 PM
There are analog gauges available, at least in Europe.
(https://imgr2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/BMW-3er-Leak-fotoshowBig-a00d8824-1191869.jpg)
Are you sure? That looks digital to me.
Quote from: r0tor on October 02, 2018, 04:08:50 AM
Because F models almost across the bmw model range were not very good.
Now you done did it :lol:
Agreed that real world pics look a lot better. Still looks like a Lexus though.
It's not a bad looking car at all, but it's certainly.nothing special. Shame that me second favorite company in the industry has lost all my interest
Moment of silence for the death of the manual 3er in the US
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-bmw-3-series-330i-m340i-photos-info
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 02, 2018, 05:27:36 AM
Are you sure? That looks digital to me.
It is difficult to find any pictures of it, since BMW is only showing highly optioned versions, but you can see the standard gauges in the configurator. I think the center part of the gauges is digital.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/33tja1l.png)
Was just going to say, I heard a ugly rumor that no manual would be available
So what manual "sport" sedans are left? A4? ATS is dead and I get a strong hunch its replacement won't have one.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 02, 2018, 10:59:50 AM
Was just going to say, I heard a ugly rumor that no manual would be available
So what manual "sport" sedans are left? A4? ATS is dead and I get a strong hunch its replacement won't have one.
G70
Quote from: r0tor on October 02, 2018, 10:23:34 AM
Moment of silence for the death of the manual 3er in the US
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-bmw-3-series-330i-m340i-photos-info
Unless you have 70+K to drop on an M3 :cry:
Quote from: 2o6 on October 02, 2018, 11:35:08 AM
G70
Ah yes. A4 manual is dead for 2019 so all hope rests on the Genesis. We'll see....
About 2/3rds of the Accord's gauges are an LCD screen. It's great in function. When it's just the tachometer, it's hard to even tell it apart from the analog speedometer. I say bring on the digital gauges!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 02, 2018, 11:55:14 AM
Ah yes. A4 manual is dead for 2019 so all hope rests on the Genesis. We'll see....
Says someone who hasn't bought a manual in years (decades?).
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 02, 2018, 12:45:56 PM
Says someone who hasn't bought a manual in years (decades?).
ROASTED :lol:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 02, 2018, 12:45:56 PM
Says someone who hasn't bought a manual in years (decades?).
I sold the Civic last year (1 year ago) :confused:
And didn't you just buy an automatic? :hmm:
Quote from: MrH on October 02, 2018, 01:17:03 PM
ROASTED :lol:
How? Even when I had manual cars I thought all the :vapors: over them was silly. My mom can drive stick. There are other ways to engage with a car than grabbing a big knob erecting out of the center console.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 02, 2018, 01:21:28 PM
I sold the Civic last year (1 year ago) :confused:
Selling is not the same as buying.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 02, 2018, 01:21:28 PM
And didn't you just buy an automatic? :hmm:
Yes. I am not complaining about no manuals in the entry 3ers however. That has been the case in Mexico for more than 10 years already.
Since you asked, this being my first modern DCT gearbox I am in awe of the speed and the smoothness of the shifts. I know the tech isn't that new but it definitely is new to me. The M3 is so fast and savage that I am not currently missing the manual. But I do enjoy it in the cars that have it.
I love grabbing big knobs.
Wait, what?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 02, 2018, 01:29:52 PM
Selling is not the same as buying.
Well it definitely hasn't been "decades".
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 02, 2018, 01:29:52 PMYes. I am not complaining about no manuals in the entry 3ers however.
I'm not either, which makes your "burn" silly. Stop being so sensitive about BMW.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 02, 2018, 01:29:52 PMSince you asked, this being my first modern DCT gearbox I am in awe of the speed and the smoothness of the shifts. I know the tech isn't that new but it definitely is new to me. The M3 is so fast and savage that I am not currently missing the manual. But I do enjoy it in the cars that have it.
Which is why the manual is dying. Which is OK :huh:
Manuals really only make sense now for weekend & open road entertainment. As daily commuters that sit in rush-hour gridlock two hours a day, they're horrible. Also, with modern automatics, the fuel economy advantage that manuals had is just about gone.
Electrification, which will become more and more key for increasingly stringent global FE/emissions regs, is also way easier with automatic transmissions.
Quote from: Morris Minor on October 03, 2018, 01:46:56 PM
Manuals really only make sense now for weekend & open road entertainment. As daily commuters that sit in rush-hour gridlock two hours a day, they're horrible. Also, with modern automatics, the fuel economy advantage that manuals had is just about gone.
My morning commute is an hour each way through Chicago's annoyingly packed and always under construction roads. Driving a manual is really not that much more inconvenient than an auto, imo. And modern manuals alleviate some of the tedium with hill holds and rev matching and all that jazz. I think manuals are mostly screwed now because they offer no objective advantage over an auto; they aren't faster, they aren't cheaper, they aren't more fuel efficient, and they aren't more comfortable. Really, the only reason to get one now is subjective.
Quote from: Morris Minor on October 03, 2018, 01:46:56 PM
Manuals really only make sense now for weekend & open road entertainment. As daily commuters that sit in rush-hour gridlock two hours a day, they're horrible. Also, with modern automatics, the fuel economy advantage that manuals had is just about gone.
I mean, sitting in rush hour traffic for 2 hours itself is horrible. IME having a manual or not has never bothered me when I had to deal with a lousy commute. It is basically second nature for me. I actually feel awkward using an automatic on the rare occasions I have a car with one.
Quote from: Xer0 on October 03, 2018, 02:01:40 PM
My morning commute is an hour each way through Chicago's annoyingly packed and always under construction roads. Driving a manual is really not that much more inconvenient than an auto, imo. And modern manuals alleviate some of the tedium with hill holds and rev matching and all that jazz. I think manuals are mostly screwed now because they offer no objective advantage over an auto; they aren't faster, they aren't cheaper, they aren't more fuel efficient, and they aren't more comfortable. Really, the only reason to get one now is subjective.
+1 to everything here.
I remember my right leg getting more sore in traffic than my left when I drove stick so maybe the traffic thing is overblown.
But yea, it's purely subjective now.
Quote from: Galaxy on October 02, 2018, 10:57:35 AM
It is difficult to find any pictures of it, since BMW is only showing highly optioned versions, but you can see the standard gauges in the configurator. I think the center part of the gauges is digital.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/33tja1l.png)
My thinking was the those circular plastic decorators were real, but the speedometer information inside them is digital. We'll see when we get to see the car in person, which in my case will be soon!
BMW Exec Implies There Won't Be A Next-Gen 3-Series GT
In an interview during the 2018 Paris Motor Show, BMW global development boss Klaus Frohlich admitted that the new X1 and X3 would make a next-gen 3-Series GT useless.
Speaking with Aussie outlet Motoring, Frohlich implied that the G20-generation 3-Series won't spawn a Gran Turismo version, which is good news only for those who felt as though the 3 GT was never a proper BMW to begin with. Others however appreciated just how practical it was.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/10/9a6160d8-bmw-official-says-no-more-3-series-gt-1.jpg)
"Things are changing," said Frohlich during the interview. "When we did the GT we saw that in demographic change people want to sit a little more upright. But then you saw the X1 and X3 you can sit upright and you feel younger."
"So this segment is under pressure from SUVs, which are having no disadvantage in fuel consumption or in ride and handling. Segments are growing and shrinking and you have to always be careful. Some cars we will always try and this doesn't mean they have to be proceeded with."
The BMW exec concluded by saying that there are already seven or eight 3 and 4 Series derivatives and that "you can do 10 derivatives but you will not sell more."
The 3-Series GT was initially launched back in 2013, based on the chassis used by the Chinese-market LWB sedan version of the 3-Series. Therefore, it had a longer wheelbase than the F31 Touring, a higher roof and increased overall width, allowing for three full-size adults to fit comfortably in the back.
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2018/10/bmw-exec-implies-wont-next-gen-3-series-gt/
That's logical. I however always liked the 5er now 6er GT. Albeit in the same way that Sporty likes manuals.
Looking forward to see what the next 4GC looks like
BMW recently unveiled a Hi-Po 2.0T for use in the FWD based M performance models with like 300hp. It would be awesome if they put that engine in the new 3er with a manual and a decent suspension. Automotive Christmas land can be a lot of fun sometimes.
Would much rather a limited run of 3.0L NA 6s
In fact those should be the only engines with stickshift cars, since stickshift is basically a whole new model anyway. They'd become instant classics so lease residuals would be plump. And they would sound like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSBxCLGeAok&t=40s
instead of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBxpWKKee0Q&t=70s
Yea... BMW needs to go back to NA inline 6s or at least have a damn option
I mean, I would love a singing NA I6, but I'm trying to be semi reasonable in my auto Christmas-land wish list.
Reviews are out all over the place... Thought this one sums things up nicely
https://www.motor1.com/reviews/297249/2019-bmw-3-series-first-drive/
It's a solid effort but it's trying too hard to do too much - therefore it's not the best at anything. The improved dynamics are being lost in a swath of half baked and completely unneeded tech.
Dont know what else they could do. Cant sacrifice anything for dynamics... that's how the ATS bombed. Can't be less techy than a mainstreamer, even though mainstreamers are pretty damn techy- and in contrast to lux brands techy in a way that's actually usable on the road. What's really left? Outside of loving the brand, AWD, or virtue signaling (i.e. "I care about driving") I feel like the poser class has never been a harder sell.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 14, 2018, 12:46:21 PM
Dont know what else they could do. Cant sacrifice anything for dynamics... that's how the ATS bombed.
Apparently they did though. The new 3er supposedly has a suspension that is noticeable harsher across the board in order to get driving dynamics up. BMW explained that the more comfort oriented buyers will go for the X3 anyways.
The 3er will always be successful (in sales) because it's a 3er. Nothing more. New car buyers have NEVER cared for "dynamics" no matter the class.
That virtual assistant looks like a nightmare. What a joke new cars are becoming. NOBODY wants this tech.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 14, 2018, 01:04:46 PM
New car buyers have NEVER cared for "dynamics" no matter the class.
I disagree with that. Someone people will even buy a car because of perceived dynamics. It has gotten better in recent years, but in the mid 2010s some cars - e.g.: some Audis with the sport suspension, some Jaguars - had suspensions that were brutally hard, to the point where the car actually had poor performance because the tires lost traction when driven hard because the suspension could not absorb impacts, but many people liked them because it "feels" sporty. Also look at the tires packages people buy. Many have 21, 22 inch tires because it is perceived a "race car". The Viper ACR set it's lap records with 19 inch tires. 21 inch would not absorb impacts enough, leading to catapulting.
... I thought I bought my car based on dynamics...
Quote from: r0tor on December 14, 2018, 02:13:25 PM
... I thought I bought my car based on dynamics...
It's a step back in dynamics and engagement from the RX-8, so that couldn't be the reason.
Quote from: Galaxy on December 14, 2018, 01:38:25 PM
I disagree with that. Someone people will even buy a car because of perceived dynamics. It has gotten better in recent years, but in the mid 2010s some cars - e.g.: some Audis with the sport suspension, some Jaguars - had suspensions that were brutally hard, to the point where the car actually had poor performance because the tires lost traction when driven hard because the suspension could not absorb impacts, but many people liked them because it "feels" sporty. Also look at the tires packages people buy. Many have 21, 22 inch tires because it is perceived a "race car". The Viper ACR set it's lap records with 19 inch tires. 21 inch would not absorb impacts enough, leading to catapulting.
I would argue those ridiculous suspension and tire packages helped accelerate the demise of the sedan. I'd say my G and Z rode about the same. Down here they are for but comfortable. I took the Z up north once... It was horrible. It could not deal with NYC roads. Non sorry crossovers on high profile tires probably rode like old Cadillacs by comparison. And don't lunch wheels.
Autocorrect really went to town on that post @_@
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 14, 2018, 08:52:21 PM
It's a step back in dynamics and engagement from the RX-8, so that couldn't be the reason.
I wouldn't say that... Longer wheelbase obviously changes the playfulness and nothing beats hydraulic steering , but the front end of the Giulia and range of comfort/control is definitely better.
I mean... Longer wheelbase, electric steering, automatic transmission, "comfort"...
It's no knock, but the same money probably could have bought an M240i 6MT. Hell I think even a 340i can be had in the mid 50s. ATS too. Not knocking the purchase but if driving engagement is the driver there are def other choices.
I drove the 340i... It was a fast boring pig.
The Giulia is everything that makes a sports sedan a great sports sedan - fantastic handling, brakes, compliance, and practicality. The engine is also way above OK.
It looks better than the current gen at least :huh:
Lets wait for the M cars before we write off the dynamics.
Quote from: Xer0 on December 17, 2018, 08:34:56 AM
Lets wait for the M cars before we write off the dynamics.
This alone is an indictment on the current state of BMW. We didn't used to have to wait.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 17, 2018, 10:34:43 AM
This alone is an indictment on the current state of BMW. We didn't used to have to wait.
Yup.
I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys, BMW is only going to build the cars that people actually buy and when it comes to wanting sporty and with a manual, that means M cars.
Quote from: Xer0 on December 17, 2018, 12:24:29 PM
I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys, BMW is only going to build the cars that people actually buy and when it comes to wanting sporty and with a manual, that means M cars.
For sure... my "indictment" was in the context of dynamics. Normal 3s used to lead the segment for everything dynamics related; the notion that now you have to get an M-car for good dynamics is enough to write them off. That's not to say the 3 is a bad car- I'd get one over all it's dynamically superior competition- but still....
I still don't think that's fair. Think about what was in the same class as the 3er when it was the top of the heap, so around the E36/46. It was mostly garbage. The C class was a joke, the A4 or whatever it was called before was only taken seriously in the occasional S-guise, the Lexus ES just didn't care to be hustled, the Acura TL/CL-S were okay I guess, and I can't even remember what Infinit was pushing. It was by default the only choice if you wanted anything resembling driving fun. Now though? Decent driving machines in this class are everywhere. I don't think BMW has changed it philosophy on the 3er much honestly, its just everyone else has gotten so much better that it looks like they dropped the ball.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 17, 2018, 12:32:19 PM
For sure... my "indictment" was in the context of dynamics. Normal 3s used to lead the segment for everything dynamics related; the notion that now you have to get an M-car for good dynamics is enough to write them off.
Yup.
I don't expect them to change, but it still sucks that entry level 3ers used to be
very good driver's cars and that they are not anymore, according to most reports anyway (haven't driven one since E90).
Quote from: Xer0 on December 17, 2018, 12:50:04 PM
I still don't think that's fair. Think about what was in the same class as the 3er when it was the top of the heap, so around the E36/46. It was mostly garbage. The C class was a joke, the A4 or whatever it was called before was only taken seriously in the occasional S-guise, the Lexus ES just didn't care to be hustled, the Acura TL/CL-S were okay I guess, and I can't even remember what Infinit was pushing. It was by default the only choice if you wanted anything resembling driving fun. Now though? Decent driving machines in this class are everywhere. I don't think BMW has changed it philosophy on the 3er much honestly, its just everyone else has gotten so much better that it looks like they dropped the ball.
How's the steering feel on the most recent 3ers? IMO, that's mostly where their competitive advantage was. My dad's 2017 A4 handles just fine, but the steering feel is terrible for something that some people consider to be a sport sedan.
3er remained the top of the heap through the E9x generation, for good reason. It was as civil and refined as anything else in the class, while also being the fastest and most dynamically competent. The G, which was its closest competitor, was a mess dynamically even in sport trim. Dynamically the F30 was a mess, with a sloppy, vague chassis and steering (at least in the rental trim I had). Coincidentally, several competitors also stepped their game up dynamically. But it's not like the 3 stood its ground. It definitely took a step back with the F30. The F80 also had some issues until the Comp package came out.
Mags say the current one got its mojo back but after the disappointment of the Mazda 3 I'm gonna wait to drive one before I believe it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 17, 2018, 01:10:25 PM
Mags say the current one got its mojo back but after the disappointment of the Mazda 3 I'm gonna wait to drive one before I believe it.
5 minutes in a Giulia is all that's needed to confirm the sports sedan still lives and is as good as ever
I mean, everything different between a Giulia and a manual E46/E90 goes against what enthusiasts want. Low revving turbo 4 vs a singing NA 6; 200-400lb extra weight; availability of 3 pedals vs not. The unthusiast market and regulations have forced things in this direction.
.. and one of the most iconic bmws had a low revving turbo 4.
Not to mention the most desirable e90s being turbo
Or Audi doing the turbo 4 sports sedan thing forever
Quote from: r0tor on December 17, 2018, 06:59:55 PM
.. and one of the most iconic bmws had a low revving turbo 4.
Everything was low revving 40 years ago.......................................
Quote from: r0tor on December 17, 2018, 06:59:55 PMNot to mention the most desirable e90s being turbo
I don't think they ever made a turbocharged E9x M3..................................
You said "e90" -shrug-
Yes, the most desirable E90 was the M3.
Didn't realize we suddenly started talking m cars in a non m car thread
E36 M3
New 3er at BMW Welt, both in CO2-low emitting 320d form! :tounge:
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJ5t2SCX/BMW-3er-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVDmj9MY/BMW-3er-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXJyBmfD/BMW-3er-3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTMfxbmW/BMW-3er-4.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cJnRV44k/BMW-3er-5.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vZj7q6M6/BMW-3er-6.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qqk2hscW/BMW-3er-7.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Twjr37br/BMW-3er-8.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/90JZGDJ0/BMW-3er-9.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CMNGy2S0/BMW-3er-10.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/x1WHyDyv/BMW-3er-11.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/5y7QXZ2F/BMW-3er-12.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/FFDLCJVs/BMW-3er-13.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sXzhqYL1/BMW-3er-14.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xvd5sHQT/BMW-3er-15.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXV1pqdD/BMW-3er-16.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RhVnVM4B/BMW-3er-17.jpg)
I like it less
The grille, the gauges, the c pillar
No bueno
Looks nice. I just don't like the way the grille is eating into the hood's real estate.
I hate the uni-grill and digital gauges
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 02, 2019, 08:19:04 PM
Looks nice. I just don't like the way the grille is eating into the hood's real estate.
Looks like a dog's nose.
The black surround on the grille looks awful.
Besides, if I wanted an automatic BMW, I'd buy an X1, X3, or X5. Not something that's supposed to be good to drive.
I'm liking the grill a lot more when its not chromed out, still, I think I'd prefer it not being outlined.
The connected black grille looks better in person. I am not that bothered by it.
I have to say the rear lights do remind me of a Lexus IS. I saw a new BMW 3er from the rear on the road today (without camouflage but still a factory car) and I initially assumed it was a Lexus IS.
"Wow! A Lexus! Somebody actually bought one here...oh wait, it's the new 3er." :lol:
New X3/X4 M just reveled and probably also confirms the engine that will go into the new M3/4
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a23070105/2020-bmw-x3-x4-m-photos-info/
3.0 TT i6 with either 470 or 503hp. 7300 RPM redline so this thing will probably feel pretty good too.
Everytime someone posts a link to Car and Driver I weep. Can't view their website. Communist Europe... eh, GDPR... :cry:
What a weird time for cars.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 13, 2019, 05:09:58 AM
What a weird time for cars.
Governments (especially in Europe) are borderline hysterical about CO2 and "man-made climate change" and want to punish anyone with an ICE car, and car companies are still building overpowered, thirsty gas-guzzling SUVs and performance cars because people want that stuff.
Weird time indeed. :lol:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on February 13, 2019, 03:14:46 AM
Everytime someone posts a link to Car and Driver I weep. Can't view their website. Communist Europe... eh, GDPR... :cry:
Germany blocks Car and Driver?
Quote from: veeman on February 14, 2019, 11:37:16 PM
Germany blocks Car and Driver?
No,
Car and Driver has geo-blocked parts of Europe thanks to these idiotic GDPR laws, which are now being further extended with EU Article 11 and 13, the latter which is going to ruin the Internet for fun-loving Europeans.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation
Article 13 is gonna be balls. How will forums, or anything featuring user-generated content, survive?
That might be what pushes Europe over the edge with the EU. My inner conspiracy theorist says they're using this shit to stifle communication (and dissent)
Quote from: Laconian on February 21, 2019, 04:06:13 PM
Article 13 is gonna be balls. How will forums, or anything featuring user-generated content, survive?
Good question.
So far Article 13 only applies to major websites like Youtube, Facebook, Amazon etc. Smaller websites will eventually have to follow suit, IIRC. I watched a video from a German lawyer who went through the whole thing. This guy is very active on the Internet and he was tearing apart these idiot politicians who enforced Article 13.
It's basically the lovetoy from a man called Axel Voss from the CDU political party in Germany. The hashtag #NieWiederCDU (Never again CDU) became an instant hit on the web. German politics are a mess right now...
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 21, 2019, 05:08:37 PM
That might be what pushes Europe over the edge with the EU. My inner conspiracy theorist says they're using this shit to stifle communication (and dissent)
That's exactly what it is: CENSORSHIP. Censorship under the guise of "copyright laws". The EU and major governments in Europe are fearful of the alternative media who are reporting the truth about their crap politics and idiotic decisions.
By enacting this law, they can silence these people, or at least prevent them from using copyrighted material and thus make their video/news presentations a little more dull.
What these idiots are not thinking about is how this will ruin people who for example make a living reviewing movies, video games etc. on Youtube. They won't be able to use clips or trailers or mere screenshots anymore - unless they have a "contract" with Facebook/Youtube. And even the assholes who came up with EU Article 13 (Axel Voss), have no idea how that contract looks like or will actually work. Essentially these morons are "Shooting first, ask questions later!"
Europe is being run by morons.
Censorship, or protectionism? The laws were written with heavy input from European media and major copyright holders.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on February 22, 2019, 01:55:07 AM
That's exactly what it is: CENSORSHIP. Censorship under the guise of "copyright laws". The EU and major governments in Europe are fearful of the alternative media who are reporting the truth about their crap politics and idiotic decisions.
By enacting this law, they can silence these people, or at least prevent them from using copyrighted material and thus make their video/news presentations a little more dull.
What these idiots are not thinking about is how this will ruin people who for example make a living reviewing movies, video games etc. on Youtube. They won't be able to use clips or trailers or mere screenshots anymore - unless they have a "contract" with Facebook/Youtube. And even the assholes who came up with EU Article 13 (Axel Voss), have no idea how that contract looks like or will actually work. Essentially these morons are "Shooting first, ask questions later!"
Europe is being run by morons.
This is the natural, inescapable progression of anti-speech laws (outlawing blasphemy, Holocaust denial, Nazi symbols, etc.).
Have no fear, the US isn't that bad, but we will be.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 22, 2019, 03:22:59 PM
This is the natural, inescapable progression of anti-speech laws (outlawing blasphemy, Holocaust denial, Nazi symbols, etc.).
Have no fear, the US isn't that bad, but we will be.
I can only imagine the difficulties you face as a Holocaust denier in the US. Hopefully we can make things right ffor you
I agree with Wimmer. Some of the European governments are poorly run and based on faulty, idealistic beliefs.
Quote from: Laconian on February 22, 2019, 02:20:34 PM
Censorship, or protectionism? The laws were written with heavy input from European media and major copyright holders.
There is some truth to that. The mainstream European media is pro Article 13 because it means their competition - the alternative media - has a good chance of getting silenced. Many Europeans are distrustful of the mainstream media and have begun looking elsewhere for news.
My news comes from alternative news sources, and not state-run bullshit FAKE NEWS sources like ARD, ZDF, Der Spiegel etc.. ;)
Quote from: shp4man on February 22, 2019, 09:34:30 PM
I agree with Wimmer. Some of the European governments are poorly run and based on faulty, idealistic beliefs.
:hesaid:
Currently Western Europe is infested with Leftist-Green ideological assholes that want to save the world no matter what the cost - even if it means the literal destruction of our society, economy, well-fare etc. No wonder people are drawn to populist movements...
Quote from: cawimmer430 on February 22, 2019, 01:55:07 AM
That's exactly what it is: CENSORSHIP. Censorship under the guise of "copyright laws". The EU and major governments in Europe are fearful of the alternative media who are reporting the truth about their crap politics and idiotic decisions.
Criticisms of certain agendas are of course legit, but you are getting into dangerous waters with the whole "alternative" thing. I do not know why people develop such outright hate for a certain political entity based on a few policies.
Has Angela Merkel made some mistakes? Yes. At the end of the day however, after 14 Merkel years the country is in much better shape then it was before. There is basically full employment, and she has halved Germany's foreign debt. One of her best traits is that she is willing to do things that she knows are unpopular. There are soooooo many calls for her to spend money on on thing or another, and she has resounded with a simple "Nein" even if that increases the number of people running around with "Merkel has to go" signs. I call that character.
Quote from: shp4man on February 22, 2019, 09:34:30 PM
Some of the European governments are poorly run and based on faulty, idealistic beliefs.
The problem is people hate when they get rid of faulty, idealistic beliefs.
Many of the southern EU countries have made significant reforms these last few years, they got rid many government programs that they quite frankly could no longer afford. And the results have actually been significat, the finances of countries like Spain and Greece are better then they have been in 50 years. The voters have punished the parties that made these reforms because they are upset that the gravy train has stopped running, and they are mad at the EU for forcing their countries to implement more sustainable finances.
Take a look at Italy. They elected a government that ran on a campaign of lowering taxes
and more social programs. How is one supposed to run a campaign based on logic in that environment?
Quote from: cawimmer430 on February 23, 2019, 10:47:42 AM
Currently Western Europe is infested with Leftist-Green ideological assholes that want to save the world no matter what the cost - even if it means the literal destruction of our society, economy, well-fare etc. No wonder people are drawn to populist movements...
Come on, anno 2019 we are tearing down villages in Germany to stip mine lignite, what is leftist-green about that?
Some of the fall out from the diesel scandal is a bit excessive, but the fact of the matter is, the auto industry has completely dropped the ball. Today there are diesel cars that are far cleaner then demanded by current Euro 6d regulations. The Mercedes E220d would be allowed 168 mg of Nox per km in real life driving. Car magazines in independent tests are achieving 7.5 mg/km. There has been no breakthrough technology with diesel emissions in recent years. They made the choice to put polluting cars on the road. It was only after several courts banned the car that they stopped dragging their collective asses.
Apropos dieselgate: VW yesterday announced it's biggest profit ever. So, even though they have not yet gotten the final bill, it seems as though dieselgate will not be as devastating as initially thought. Still a shame though, they could have used that 80, or 100 Billion to make some really impressive cars, or leap frog battery technology.
I think Wimmer's problem is that people he disagrees with have political power. I'd wager that's what a lot of the bellyaching in politics comes down to these days.
Ouch!!!
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a26990610/2019-bmw-330i-xdrive-by-the-numbers/
Wow, I wasn't expecting a review that scathing of the new 3er.
Can't believe they didn't fix the bushings :facepalm:
Their description of the loosy goosy rear end mirrors my experience with the F30. What a shame
Pretty bad review from C&D. Euro mags (as usual) like it a lot more calling it best-in-class again. It hasn't arrived at dealers here yet. I'll report when I drive one.
On another note, yesterday was the official start of production for the Mexican plant that is building the 3 series. We're building 35 cars per hour to start.
I wonder if the RWD versions are a little sharper to drive. IIRC, the AWD models were always a little less crisp in their responses.
So that's a good question. In the F30 the mSport package on an xdrive car was nothing more then a bumper and wheels as BMW wouldn't sell you awd with a sport suspension. The G20 now lists the mSport suspension as part of the mSport package on xdrive cars.
They did briefly offer a Track Handling Package on the F30 that promised to sharpen things up (available on the xdrive) but it never reviewed all that well and were rarely sighted on dealer lots. I think they are eventually releasing the package for the G20.
But in the end of the day the problem is if you want your BMW to handle the way a BMW should, you have to cough up some serious $$$$ for the right package - something you don't need to do with some of their competitors
Or get a 2 series
G20 is just going with the tides of the segment, which overall is becoming less and less of a driver's choice. G20 is longer than the E39 in wheelbase
Sadly isn't the 2 Series going to FWD?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 02, 2019, 11:55:57 AM
Or get a 2 series
G20 is just going with the tides of the segment, which overall is becoming less and less of a driver's choice. G20 is longer than the E39 in wheelbase
Quote from: HurricaneSteve on April 03, 2019, 12:46:44 PM
Sadly isn't the 2 Series going to FWD?
IIRC, just the 4 door Gran Coupe. The 2 door normal coupe will stay RWD. So real coupe, RWD, fake coupe, FWD/AWD. In typical BMW fashion it makes no sense :lol:
Quote from: Xer0 on April 03, 2019, 12:58:54 PM
IIRC, just the 4 door Gran Coupe. The 2 door normal coupe will stay RWD. So real coupe, RWD, fake coupe, FWD/AWD. In typical BMW fashion it makes no sense :lol:
Correct.
Looks like they're axing the convertible as well.
Quote from: Xer0 on April 03, 2019, 12:58:54 PM
IIRC, just the 4 door Gran Coupe. The 2 door normal coupe will stay RWD. So real coupe, RWD, fake coupe, FWD/AWD. In typical BMW fashion it makes no sense :lol: