If you can't beat 'em join 'em - Ford goes pooprod for 2020 Super Duty.

Started by GoCougs, February 06, 2019, 11:41:57 PM

Soup DeVille

On the last vehicle I paid attention to this on, it seemed to adjust for idle time in drive, but not in park.

It could also be using the nominal diameter of your tires, and not accounting for squish and the effective diameter.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

MX793

Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 11, 2019, 07:10:56 PM
On the last vehicle I paid attention to this on, it seemed to adjust for idle time in drive, but not in park.

It could also be using the nominal diameter of your tires, and not accounting for squish and the effective diameter.

Manual transmission doesn't have "park".

Wheel diameter shouldn't matter.  The odometer counts rotations and the computer bounces that against the factory wheel size.  Since I use the odometer reading for my hand-calculations, the car and I are both using the same value for miles.  Now, if I was tracking mileage with an independent device, that might make a difference.

I can go into the settings on the vehicle (I think I have to engage diagnostic mode, but that's just a matter of hitting a couple of buttons in the right sequence) and adjust the fuel mileage readout on the Mustang.  Basically introduce a scaling factor to correct it if it's consistently wrong.  Haven't bothered to try it.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5


MX793

I also don't run the pump at wide-open until it kicks off and then call it full.  After it kicks the first time, I trickle fill until it kicks a second time.  Also almost always use the same station (only station that has non-ethanol) and usually the same pump.  I can pretty much guarantee the fill variability is within .1 gallons.  And pumps are also checked monthly for accuracy by the state.  On a typical 11-12 gallon fill up (I don't let it drop below 1/4 tank), fill error isn't more than 1%.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Submariner

Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 11, 2019, 07:10:56 PM
On the last vehicle I paid attention to this on, it seemed to adjust for idle time in drive, but not in park.

It could also be using the nominal diameter of your tires, and not accounting for squish and the effective diameter.

I know my car does register MPG whenever the engine is on.  In other words, my MPG drops even if I'm in park.
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

12,000 RPM

Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 11, 2019, 06:54:22 PM
Miles driven doesn't include reverse and idle time. For any given trip, from start to stop, modern on board fuel economy readouts should be very accurate. Older systems might not be.
The G, Z and Kia were all off by as much as 10% for average FE

Maybe the instantaneous reading is accurate, but that's not of much use to me.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

GoCougs

Breaking news, Ford powertrain engineer spills the secrets for transitioning to pooprod motors - smaller, lighter, better powerband: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a26306469/ford-super-duty-73-v8-engine-details-specs/

Laconian

Quote from: GoCougs on February 12, 2019, 08:18:12 PM
Breaking news, Ford powertrain engineer spills the secrets for transitioning to pooprod motors - smaller, lighter, better powerband: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a26306469/ford-super-duty-73-v8-engine-details-specs/

"Beltramo pointed out that most vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of under 8500 pounds cruise around without carrying or towing much weight at all. That means they don't use much sustained horsepower. By contrast, vehicles with a GVWR over 8500 pounds tend to tow and haul a lot, which means they're using a lot of their horsepower a lot of the time."

Translation: pushrods are better for poseurs who daily drive their trucks for no reason.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

shp4man

It was designed as a truck engine. They don't have the EPA breathing down their backs on F-250's and bigger.

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: Laconian on February 12, 2019, 08:30:10 PM
"Beltramo pointed out that most vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of under 8500 pounds cruise around without carrying or towing much weight at all. That means they don't use much sustained horsepower. By contrast, vehicles with a GVWR over 8500 pounds tend to tow and haul a lot, which means they're using a lot of their horsepower a lot of the time."

Translation: pushrods are better for poseurs who daily drive their trucks for no reason.

Oh, it's a good thing my daily has pooprods. But wait. I use a lot if its horsepower a lot of the time. Should I install an overhead cam?
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

Laconian

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 12, 2019, 09:25:43 PM
Oh, it's a good thing my daily has pooprods. But wait. I use a lot if its horsepower a lot of the time. Should I install an overhead cam?

I'm pretty sure you can get a stick-on DOHC head at Pep Boys
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

Submariner

Quote from: Laconian on February 12, 2019, 09:28:29 PM
I'm pretty sure you can get a stick-on DOHC head at Pep Boys

If not DOHC stickers are like $2.99 on Amazon.
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

Eye of the Tiger

Oh man, I don't think I can afford DOHC. SOHC stickers should be half the price.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

GoCougs

Quote from: Laconian on February 12, 2019, 08:30:10 PM
"Beltramo pointed out that most vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of under 8500 pounds cruise around without carrying or towing much weight at all. That means they don't use much sustained horsepower. By contrast, vehicles with a GVWR over 8500 pounds tend to tow and haul a lot, which means they're using a lot of their horsepower a lot of the time."

Translation: pushrods are better for poseurs who daily drive their trucks for no reason.

I took it the opposite - pooprod was proving better with legit truck use (i.e., driving around with heavy loads most of the time).

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: GoCougs on February 12, 2019, 09:58:49 PM
I took it the opposite - pooprod was proving better with legit truck use (i.e., driving around with heavy loads most of the time).

I like this translation better. My heavy tow rig has 12 poorods, and I believe it only gets stronger the more I beat on it.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

Laconian

Quote from: GoCougs on February 12, 2019, 09:58:49 PM
I took it the opposite - pooprod was proving better with legit truck use (i.e., driving around with heavy loads most of the time).

Oh whoops, yes.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

GoCougs


FoMoJo

Quote from: GoCougs on February 12, 2019, 08:18:12 PM
Breaking news, Ford powertrain engineer spills the secrets for transitioning to pooprod motors - smaller, lighter, better powerband: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a26306469/ford-super-duty-73-v8-engine-details-specs/
More torque at low rpm to carry heavy loads.  Sounds perfect for those fat-assed Chevy drivers in their Camaros. :huh:
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

GoCougs

Quote from: FoMoJo on February 13, 2019, 11:08:49 AM
More torque at low rpm to carry heavy loads.  Sounds perfect for those fat-assed Chevy drivers in their Camaros. :huh:

Perhaps the Mustang would benefit then? Versus the Camaro, in general, the Mustang is both heavier and slower.

12,000 RPM

Quote from: GoCougs on February 13, 2019, 11:37:47 AM
Perhaps the Mustang would benefit then? Versus the Camaro, in general, the Mustang is both heavier and slower.
If only anyone cared....

A couple of tenths to 60 is not worth the huge losses in practicality and livability. The Rustang is 97% as fast as the Camaro while being about 300% nicer to live with. That is why the Rustang is the top selling coupe in Germany (!) while the Camaro is nowhere to be found in Europe.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

FoMoJo

Quote from: GoCougs on February 13, 2019, 11:37:47 AM
Perhaps the Mustang would benefit then? Versus the Camaro, in general, the Mustang is both heavier and slower.
No doubt for the average Mustang owner as well.  Semi-exotics like the GT 350 excluded of course.  Then again, the new GT 500 will soon put an end to the fractional lead in speed that Camaro fanboys seem to think exists.  Chevy engineers are currently scrambling to make their pooprods work a little faster without flying out of the engine.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

GoCougs

Quote from: FoMoJo on February 13, 2019, 12:31:40 PM
No doubt for the average Mustang owner as well.  Semi-exotics like the GT 350 excluded of course.  Then again, the new GT 500 will soon put an end to the fractional lead in speed that Camaro fanboys seem to think exists.  Chevy engineers are currently scrambling to make their pooprods work a little faster without flying out of the engine.

Well, the GT500 does look interesting though the DCT-only tack is quite odd. Either way it's shaping up to be a rehash of the past - the GT500 is quicker in a straight line than the ZL1, but underperforms everywhere else. Perhaps this will comfort Mustang fans from playing second fiddle the last decade, but I sorta doubt it. Of course, should Chevy drop the ZR1's 755 hp LT5 into the ZL1 1LE, well, Mustang fans will be back to having Bad Days.

12,000 RPM

Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

FoMoJo

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 13, 2019, 01:59:24 PM
??????????

The GT500 hasn't even come out yet :lol:
That's the beauty.  We can speculate all we want.  Besides, it has killer sound; and it's called Predator. :lol:
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Gotta-Qik-C7

Quote from: FoMoJo on February 13, 2019, 12:31:40 PM
No doubt for the average Mustang owner as well.  Semi-exotics like the GT 350 excluded of course.  Then again, the new GT 500 will soon put an end to the fractional lead in speed that Camaro fanboys seem to think exists.  Chevy engineers are currently scrambling to make their pooprods work a little faster without flying out of the engine.
Chevy engineers are too busy readying the C8 to go Ferarri/Lambo/McClaren hunting to worry about the GT 500........
2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

FoMoJo

Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on February 13, 2019, 04:54:48 PM
Chevy engineers are busy readying the C8 to go Ferarri/Lambo/McClaren hunting to worry about the GT 500........
Ford already did that in 1966 :huh:.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Submariner

2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

Gotta-Qik-C7

2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide


FoMoJo

Quote from: Submariner on February 13, 2019, 09:06:23 PM
With a modified Lola Mk 6, yeah.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on February 13, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
DAMN YOU BEAT ME TO IT!!!  :lol:
Ford learned early on that to be competitive in international races it was important to bring on board the experts in the specific class.  Most of the expertise, at the time, was in Britain; to a degree, it still is.  In their venture into F1, they commissioned Messrs. COStin and DuckWORTH to build an engine for Lotus, having a partnership of sorts with Colin Chapman at the time.  The result, of course, was the remarkable Ford/Cosworth DFV which dominated F1 for years.  This partnership also extended into Indy racing where a Ford Windsor powered Lotus, driven by Jim Clark, changed the structure of Indy race cars.  Of course, the Windsor went on to dominate the series for years powering various entries.

Regarding GT/prototype racing, at the time, Eric Broadly, another Brit, had developed the Lola Mk 6 which used the small block Windsor and was surprisingly quick so Ford put a team together and contracted Broadly as a collaborator to build the Ford GT.  The first year of racing 1964, was not successful so Ford brought in Shelby to manage the team.  We all know what happened after that.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."