My Z3

[veeman]

 

[cawimmer430]

IIRC the first Z4 was only slightly longer and wider, but I think each new model got progressively bigger. I think that first Z4 is the sweet spot on mechanical ability and driving dynamics, but for me the nostalgia and looks pushed me toward the Z3. Interestingly, getting a Z4 would have likely only been a couple grand more, so I do wonder if the Z3 is near its bottom on the depreciation curve.

I think you picked a good car. It's from an era when BMWs still had that direct steering feedback and the cars probably had less electronic safety nannies. In short, it's a driver's car. Have fun!

[Raza]

IIRC the first Z4 was only slightly longer and wider, but I think each new model got progressively bigger. I think that first Z4 is the sweet spot on mechanical ability and driving dynamics, but for me the nostalgia and looks pushed me toward the Z3. Interestingly, getting a Z4 would have likely only been a couple grand more, so I do wonder if the Z3 is near its bottom on the depreciation curve.

Z4 is 2" longer in wheelbase and overall, 1" wider, and the same height.  Wow, I had no idea they were so close in dimensions.  The shape of the Z3 makes it look so much smaller.

Good looking car.  I love my Z4, of course, but the Z3 is also a looker. 

[SJ_GTI]

So the new tires were delivered today, but not in time to get them mounted. i dropped them off at the shop around closing time and, since everything but the tires were done i decided to leave the Golf there for the weekend and take the Z3.

Once the sun started going down i took it out just to play around with it. Its so nice to drive. The clutch and shifter feel so much more mechanical and connected than the Golf. The engine is sooooo buttery smooth all the way to redline...plus it sounds so nice with the top down.

Will be interesting to see if or how if feels with new wheels. Its fun as is, but it always feels like its on the edge of losing its grip.

My one regret is that I should have bought something like this years ago. So much wasted time!

[FoMoJo]

Being prudent is wise, but as you get older, enjoying the day becomes more important.

Hope you have a blast with your new toy.

[Raza]

So the new tires were delivered today, but not in time to get them mounted. i dropped them off at the shop around closing time and, since everything but the tires were done i decided to leave the Golf there for the weekend and take the Z3.

Once the sun started going down i took it out just to play around with it. Its so nice to drive. The clutch and shifter feel so much more mechanical and connected than the Golf. The engine is sooooo buttery smooth all the way to redline...plus it sounds so nice with the top down.

Will be interesting to see if or how if feels with new wheels. Its fun as is, but it always feels like its on the edge of losing its grip.

My one regret is that I should have bought something like this years ago. So much wasted time!

Welcome back to the sports car club.  It's good here.   

[SJ_GTI]

Pass emissions inspection this morning so I am completely road legal (until 2021) now. 

[cawimmer430]

Pass emissions inspection this morning so I am completely road legal (until 2021) now. 

Starting 2021 you gotta stuff an electric motor or two in it, eh?

[SJ_GTI]

So I dropped my Z3 off at my dad's shop yesterday evening (to get the new tires put on sometime this week) and got my Golf R back. After driving the Z3 all weekend the Golf felt really strange. The clutch, shifter, and steering are all so much lighter (and numb), it took me a while to be able to drive it smoothly again. The seat in the Golf is more comfortable (more bolstering) but I felt like I was sitting so high up. 

[FoMoJo]

At one point, decades ago, I had 2 vehicles that I drove on a regular basis, a '78 Bronco (gen 2) and an Alfa Spider.  Sitting in the Spider after driving the Bronco felt like I was sitting on the road.

[CaminoRacer]

So I dropped my Z3 off at my dad's shop yesterday evening (to get the new tires put on sometime this week) and got my Golf R back. After driving the Z3 all weekend the Golf felt really strange. The clutch, shifter, and steering are all so much lighter (and numb), it took me a while to be able to drive it smoothly again. The seat in the Golf is more comfortable (more bolstering) but I felt like I was sitting so high up. 

Oh I bet. Even after driving my E46 for a while, it was strange to drive a mainstream car. Those BMWs have much different steering feel/weight than most new cars. Is the gas pedal pretty heavy too?

[MX793]

If the Golf is anything like my Jetta, steering is as numb as an old arcade game.  I'm always amazed at how much better the hydraulic PS on 90s and earlier 00s sporty cars feel.  By modern standards, the S550 Mustang's EPAS is pretty good and has decent feedback, but then I jump into a 90s Miata or pre-EPAS BMW and it's like "wow, I forgot how much steering feel these older cars had".

[FoMoJo]

If the Golf is anything like my Jetta, steering is as numb as an old arcade game.  I'm always amazed at how much better the hydraulic PS on 90s and earlier 00s sporty cars feel.  By modern standards, the S550 Mustang's EPAS is pretty good and has decent feedback, but then I jump into a 90s Miata or pre-EPAS BMW and it's like "wow, I forgot how much steering feel these older cars had".

I bet your Grandpa's old Chevy has a lot more steering feel as well.

[SJ_GTI]

Oh I bet. Even after driving my E46 for a while, it was strange to drive a mainstream car. Those BMWs have much different steering feel/weight than most new cars. Is the gas pedal pretty heavy too?

I wouldn't have called it heavier, but definitely different.

The gas pedal is probably one of the few areas where I like the Golf is better.

[12,000 RPM]

If the Golf is anything like my Jetta, steering is as numb as an old arcade game.  I'm always amazed at how much better the hydraulic PS on 90s and earlier 00s sporty cars feel.  By modern standards, the S550 Mustang's EPAS is pretty good and has decent feedback, but then I jump into a 90s Miata or pre-EPAS BMW and it's like "wow, I forgot how much steering feel these older cars had".

It's funny, because force feedback on a decent racing wheel is pretty good. Dare I say as good or even better than some real hydraulic steering racks I've used. I prefer to feel steering load rather than texture though so that may be the difference.

[MX793]

It's funny, because force feedback on a decent racing wheel is pretty good. Dare I say as good or even better than some real hydraulic steering racks I've used. I prefer to feel steering load rather than texture though so that may be the difference.

Resistance tells you nothing about what's happening at the wheels.  The Jetta has "weight", or resistance, but no actual feel.  The resistance doesn't get light when the fronts start to push.  There's no feedback from the road.

[AutobahnSHO]

Congrats d00d!!   Great cars- as much as I love Miata much of the appeal is that they're just cheaper (like me). I'd take one of those in a heartbeat!!   Looks great, hope you enjoy it lots!

[12,000 RPM]

Resistance tells you nothing about what's happening at the wheels.  The Jetta has "weight", or resistance, but no actual feel.  The resistance doesn't get light when the fronts start to push.  There's no feedback from the road.

So resistance from your Jetta tells you nothing. Fair enough. That's not the case with everything. Best steering I've recently experienced was my Civic. Resistance tied directly to load in that, to the point that I could play right at the absolute limit of grip in the rain (not very high limits and not often). God bless the DWS06s.

With the FFB wheel resistance speaks to the grip load of the car pretty directly as well. Not sure what more feedback is needed

[MX793]

So resistance from your Jetta tells you nothing. Fair enough. That's not the case with everything. Best steering I've recently experienced was my Civic. Resistance tied directly to load in that, to the point that I could play right at the absolute limit of grip in the rain (not very high limits and not often). God bless the DWS06s.

With the FFB wheel resistance speaks to the grip load of the car pretty directly as well. Not sure what more feedback is needed

Good steering feedback is more than just ramping resistance with steering wheel angle and vehicle speed.  At the limit, steering gets light.  That's the first sign that you're about to go over the edge.

As to "texture", the striking difference between driving hard on real surfaces and video game surfaces is that real ones have "texture".  Does your racing sim wheel accurately capture what it feels like to hit a patch of speedy-dry or sand/gravel that a car in front of you dragged onto the course after an off-track excursion?  How about tar strips or crumbling patches of pavement?  Small, choppy bumps (like a pothole patch) that can lighten a tire but not fully loaded/unload the suspension?  Transitions between different pavement types (fresh asphalt, old asphalt, recently sealed asphalt, concrete)?  The sensation of one or both front wheels hydroplaning in the rain?  Driving on a drying track with dry, damp, and wet/puddled sections?

[giant_mtb]

So resistance from your Jetta tells you nothing. Fair enough. That's not the case with everything. Best steering I've recently experienced was my Civic. Resistance tied directly to load in that, to the point that I could play right at the absolute limit of grip in the rain (not very high limits and not often). God bless the DWS06s.

With the FFB wheel resistance speaks to the grip load of the car pretty directly as well. Not sure what more feedback is needed

Does the FFB wheel lose resistance when traction is lost?

[12,000 RPM]

Good steering feedback is more than just ramping resistance with steering wheel angle and vehicle speed.  At the limit, steering gets light.  That's the first sign that you're about to go over the edge.

As to "texture", the striking difference between driving hard on real surfaces and video game surfaces is that real ones have "texture".  Does your racing sim wheel accurately capture what it feels like to hit a patch of speedy-dry or sand/gravel that a car in front of you dragged onto the course after an off-track excursion?  How about tar strips or crumbling patches of pavement?  Small, choppy bumps (like a pothole patch) that can lighten a tire but not fully loaded/unload the suspension?  Transitions between different pavement types (fresh asphalt, old asphalt, recently sealed asphalt, concrete)?  The sensation of one or both front wheels hydroplaning in the rain?  Driving on a drying track with dry, damp, and wet/puddled sections?

IME steering is at its heaviest when grip is highest. And most of what you are speaking to is changes in load, not texture. In any case, yes the wheel also transmits vibrations from curbs and road imperfections. Yes, the wheel transmits the sensation of hydroplaning and the different grip levels stemming from moisture on the ground. Etc. I actually turn down the "texture" stuff just to get a more pure feel for what the tires are doing.

Does the FFB wheel lose resistance when traction is lost?

Yes, that is ground zero of decent FFB

[Eye of the Tiger]

You need to optimize your scrub radius and caster angles.

[Char]

I'm surprised you got enough wheelspin to feel uncomfortable.  I haven't driven the regular Z3, but a friend let me take his M Roadster of the same vintage for a run through an auto-x course and my recollection was that the TCS/ESP was super intrusive.  Cut the power at the slightest hint of traction loss.

I've had 2. Ask me anything.

[AutobahnSHO]

Saw a beautiful 2000 Z3 M today on the for sale lot today. $12k.

[NomisR]

Saw a beautiful 2000 Z3 M today on the for sale lot today. $12k.

Does that mean you're getting one?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Saw a nice 1999 Carerra coupe 6 speed manual today. $13K. Only 127K miles. Want to trade for Fiesta?

[AutobahnSHO]

Does that mean you're getting one?

Haha I wish.

[SJ_GTI]

I picked up my Z3 again Friday evening with the new tires installed. The difference was pretty stark.

As far as grip, I feel like driving with stability control on is more feasible now. I can break the tires loose if I try, but it doesn't happen with normal driving anymore.  And even with relatively aggressive driving the grip is very good.

Interestingly, the ride seemed to firm up quite a bit as well. I think I've read reviews that mentioned softer or stiffer sidewalls, but I don't think I've ever felt a difference this stark before. I wonder if it was because the old tires we in fact "really old" even though they had a lot of tread left.

[MX793]

When I switched from the lo-po, high efficiency A/S tires to summer performance tires on my last Mustang, it totally transformed the ride.  Way less floaty.  I also went up a rim size (shorter sidewalls) which I'm sure stiffened it up some as well.  A lot of lower performance, passenger car oriented tires tend to have a softer sidewall for ride comfort.

[CaminoRacer]

When I switched from the lo-po, high efficiency A/S tires to summer performance tires on my last Mustang, it totally transformed the ride.  Way less floaty.  I also went up a rim size (shorter sidewalls) which I'm sure stiffened it up some as well.  A lot of lower performance, passenger car oriented tires tend to have a softer sidewall for ride comfort.

My Mazda had a set of Pirellis on it that always looked like they were low on air because the sidewalls were so squishy.