Thinking of buying a Cayenne S

[Payman]

Honest opinions appreciated. 160k kms = 100k miles.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/cayenne/toronto/ontario/5_44448125_on20080130113612898/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=5_15_40&sprx=-2

[MX793]

I think my stance on off-warranty VWAG products is pretty well known (and let's face it, this is really a VW product).

A coworker had a Touareg of about that vintage and started having a lot of problems right around the 100K mark.  Problems that were really expensive to fix.  In part because VWAG doesn't design their vehicles to be particularly easy to repair so the labor hours are ridiculous.  And the parts themselves are often way more expensive than other vehicles (and Porsche will be worse than VW).  Like the transmission cooler cracked and needed to be replaced, and when they took it to the dealer, the dealer explained that the massive repair cost quoted was because replacing said cooler required removing the entire front clip.  My coworker ended up doing it himself and found a way to do it without nearly as much disassembly, but said it was a really tight squeeze and required bending/flexing some things out of the way that might have broken something if not done very carefully.  Seemed like nearly every Monday he was complaining about spending a good chunk of his weekend trying to fix something on the car himself because the dealer quoted some obscene price, and cursing how horrible the thing was to work on because it was not designed with ease of service or repair in mind.  Had a seal leaking at the back of the engine or at the transmission that was going to cost more than half what the vehicle was worth to fix (and outside his capability to do at home).  Decided to cut bait and run before it got so bad that it had to be fixed and while he was still able to get something in trade for it.

[Payman]

I think my stance on off-warranty VWAG products is pretty well known (and let's face it, this is really a VW product).

A coworker had a Touareg of about that vintage and started having a lot of problems right around the 100K mark.  Problems that were really expensive to fix.  In part because VWAG doesn't design their vehicles to be particularly easy to repair so the labor hours are ridiculous.  And the parts themselves are often way more expensive than other vehicles (and Porsche will be worse than VW).  Like the transmission cooler cracked and needed to be replaced, and when they took it to the dealer, the dealer explained that the massive repair cost quoted was because replacing said cooler required removing the entire front clip.  My coworker ended up doing it himself and found a way to do it without nearly as much disassembly, but said it was a really tight squeeze and required bending/flexing some things out of the way that might have broken something if not done very carefully.  Seemed like nearly every Monday he was complaining about spending a good chunk of his weekend trying to fix something on the car himself because the dealer quoted some obscene price, and cursing how horrible the thing was to work on because it was not designed with ease of service or repair in mind.  Had a seal leaking at the back of the engine or at the transmission that was going to cost more than half what the vehicle was worth to fix (and outside his capability to do at home).  Decided to cut bait and run before it got so bad that it had to be fixed and while he was still able to get something in trade for it.

Yeah, but at this price it's really attractive. It's one thing to have a $100,000 SUV fall apart on you, but at $13k and another $2k for a 3 year warranty this would be pretty awesome to own for a few years. If something catastrophic does happen, I'm not in it for much and it'll be easy to cut my losses by reselling it.

[Payman]

So here's the scenario... cash on the hood for a badass luxury SUV to drive like a baller for 2-3 years, $15k maximum. Looking at Range Rovers, Audi Q7, BMW X5. Anything else? No Cadillacs/Lincolns. This 385 hp V8 Cayenne S is the best I found so far.

[veeman]

Infiniti QX80   It drives smaller than it looks. 400 hp V8. If you think it looks like ass in a bad way, then obviously that's out.

[Payman]

Infiniti QX80   It drives smaller than it looks. 400 hp V8. If you think it looks like ass in a bad way, then obviously that’s out.

Not a fan, but I did look. The only thing in my budget is the QX56, and at 50% more mileage than the Cayenne.

[giant_mtb]

Sounds like somebody has $93,541 burning a hole in their pocket.

[MX793]

There's a reason why the older used European luxury SUVs are so much cheaper than those from Lexus or Infiniti.  They are far less reliable and much more costly to fix.  LR has been a permanent fixture at the bottom of the reliability survey ratings.  I wouldn't touch anything from VW off of factory warranty.  And the X5?  I can still vividly remember my academic advisor in engineering school going on a tirade about how his X5 was the most poorly designed and engineered vehicle he'd ever seen.  A big part of that was design for maintainability and repair, which seems to be a problem for the Germans.  Stuff like having to remove the entire front clip of a vehicle to change an oil cooler (VW) or burying the battery under a bunch of stuff that needs to be removed to do a battery replacement (BMW).  In what world is it OK for a battery replacement to take over an hour of labor?  Changing a battery should take no more than 15 minutes.  Oh, and the hatch to the battery is secured by non-standard screws that require a special tool to discourage DIY (BMW).  BMW, especially, seems to go out of their way to force owners to have to go to BMW authorized service centers for anything.  And I've become convinced that they just aren't built to last.  BMW actually has radiator replacement listed as routine maintenance with a replacement interval of well under 100K miles.  How in the hell does a radiator, a chunk of metal with no moving parts, require more frequent replacement than many cars' timing belts?

[Payman]

Sounds like somebody has $93,541 burning a hole in their pocket.

No, but I'm allowed one indulgence. I'm selling the Focus and need a 3 season vehicle, and I want to be able to tow. I'll have the Miata, the Cabrio, and maybe a Cayenne, all paid for.

[Payman]

If I went and bought a $60,000 truck, nobody would bat an eye.

[FoMoJo]

Go for it.  If the extended warranty covers the expensive parts, it's likely worth it just for the hell of it.  Do your own maintenance or they'll rip you off at a dealer.

The only other sporty SUV worth looking at is the F Pace, but they'll still be pretty expensive.

[MX793]

What about a similar vintage Land Cruiser with the 5.7?

[Payman]

What about a similar vintage Land Cruiser with the 5.7?

Great choice, but the only thing in my budget is much older, rattier, and 300,000+ kms. An LC equivalent to this Cayenne is double the price.

[Payman]

Go for it.  If the extended warranty covers the expensive parts, it's likely worth it just for the hell of it.  Do your own maintenance or they'll rip you off at a dealer.

The only other sporty SUV worth looking at is the F Pace, but they'll still be pretty expensive.

Sent email last night.

[MX793]

Great choice, but the only thing in my budget is much older, rattier, and 300,000+ kms. An LC equivalent to this Cayenne is double the price.

And would probably have fewer problems and cost less to run than anything from ze Germans (or LR).

[Payman]

And would probably have fewer problems and cost less to run than anything from ze Germans (or LR).

No doubt, but... boring.

[FoMoJo]

No doubt, but... boring.

For sure. 

[shp4man]

Get a used crew cab Silverado with V8. MX793 is right.
You won't have to put a Trump/Pence 2020 sticker on it. 

[FoMoJo]

I was looking at a Cayenne the other day in a parking lot.  Big Brembo brakes up front with vented rotors, decent styling, nice interior, nice stance, about the closest UV you're going to get to a sports car.

[Laconian]

I would be wary of a car with that many miles, ESPECIALLY a VWAG product.

It might be more cost effective in the long run to simply get a Cayenne with fewer miles. It would almost certainly drive better too.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

BMW and a Porsche made the list! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnvHdaBI8eM&list=LLUx-WW-FSfbzkShUOgpQdvA&index=5&t=0s

[Payman]

BMW and a Porsche made the list! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnvHdaBI8eM&list=LLUx-WW-FSfbzkShUOgpQdvA&index=5&t=0s

WTF is he on???

[AutobahnSHO]

Since it won't be a primary vehicle, and you're not hurting for ca$h, sounds like fun!

Wouldn't be my first choice, I'd be looking at Tacomas/ Colorados...

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

WTF is he on???

It must be some good stuff!!!!

[cawimmer430]

What model year Cayenne are you considering? I went back in time to the 2011 model where owners give it high marks, including reliability.

https://www.cars.com/research/porsche-cayenne-2011/consumer-reviews/

[MX793]

What model year Cayenne are you considering? I went back in time to the 2011 model where owners give it high marks, including reliability.

https://www.cars.com/research/porsche-cayenne-2011/consumer-reviews/

A lot of those were written by people who hadn't owned the car very long, or written when the car was new.  Here's a telling review (rating from this person was very positive overall) from some who bought the car new and kept it for 7+ years.

It was a very reliable car since 2017 when it started to be costly. The car needed parts from here and there from time to time and the computer starting to freak out lately ( June 2018); it shows that oil level is above average while is not, the fog lights are not working while it works, flat tire while is all good. To conclude, I would say it is a great car for the first 5-6 years (depending on the usage), but after that you might be spending up to 20.000 $ in repairs within 2 years (especially if you're living up north).

[Payman]

So I have an appointment set up later in the week to see this Cayenne and look at some others they have. I do take your comment seriously, especially the concerns, and will be asking the questions, reviewing the history, and if I do get it I'll make sure the extra warranty package will be adequate.

[Submariner]

I wouldn't trust any German car with air springs past warranty.

Though FWIW, my aunt had a 2005 Touareg that made it to 100k miles with no major mechanical issues (she sold it so I don't know how long that lasted for).  My moms old Range Rover (circa 2009) made it to 140k miles with a similarly good mechanical history.

[cawimmer430]

A lot of those were written by people who hadn't owned the car very long, or written when the car was new.  Here's a telling review (rating from this person was very positive overall) from some who bought the car new and kept it for 7+ years.

Maybe he'll get lucky and the Cayenne he'll buy was built by Japanese workers in Germany...   

[MX793]

Maybe he'll get lucky and the Cayenne he'll buy was built by Japanese workers in Germany...   

I think the Germans can assemble a car just fine.  I question the longevity of the parts and materials they use.  Like the headliner adhesive on my Jetta (and something I've seen in multiple Jettas of similar age) that simply gave up after 10 years.  Or whatever paint/coating material they coated the switchgear with that started to blister or turn sticky/gooey and essentially flow off of the switches.  Or the plastic (not rubber) washer fluid lines that got brittle with age, especially when it was cold out, and snapped near the hood hinge (multiple times on my car).  Or the rear springs that broke with only 76K miles (a co-worker with a Golf-platform car had the exact same thing happen at similarly low miles).  Or the plastic radiators on maybe early 2000s (and possibly later) BMWs that fail after 75K miles because they become brittle and crack/split.  And then there's the electronics.  As far as I can tell, the only difference between Bosch and Lucas is that the stuff from Bosch will at least work pretty well for the first 4-5 years before going to pot.