(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--QbZcxn9m--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/e0lpwdnipttmjljsrxqz.jpg)
https://jalopnik.com/the-mahindra-roxor-is-a-tiny-offroad-jeep-to-conquer-am-1823460351
https://jalopnik.com/heres-how-similar-the-mahindra-roxor-is-to-an-old-jeep-1823474555
Starting prices for the two trim levels, according to company representatives, will range from $15,549 to $18,999.
Well shit. Call me a hypocrite for dumping on $20K+ side-by-sides that aren't legal for the road. I want this. In my little hamlet south of Trenton, I can drive on the road for short distances (it's acceptable practice in most rural areas) and pick up the old railbed to a lot of riding areas. No need to haul it.
Yeah, perfectly good road-legal Wranglers can be had for $15-18,000. The Roxor might be irrational, but I still want one. I like the old-school mechanical Jeepness about it.
Man I wish someone would make a track only car like this
Big go kart please
Nice work Mahindra. Lets see if off roaders put their money where their mouths are
900 different paint color options is awesome.
Too bad jeeps aren't built for snow plowing. A covered one would be great for school or mall parking lots.
Huh, every headline I've seen about this has called it a "tiny Jeep", without really going into details. I think it says more about where we're at with modern cars, knowing now that this thing is about the width of a CJ-3 and length of a CJ-7.
Quote from: veeman on March 05, 2018, 07:58:42 AM
900 different paint color options is awesome.
Too bad jeeps aren't built for snow plowing. A covered one would be great for school or mall parking lots.
People put plows on their Jeeps (and side by sides) all the time...?
And, no, you don't want to plow a mall with a Jeep unless you wanna be there for 17 hours. That's what front end loaders with plow attachments are for. :nutty:
(https://s14.postimg.org/3vzzz4f75/plow.jpg)
Yeah, lots of guys around here have plows on their SBSs.
Quote from: veeman on March 05, 2018, 07:58:42 AM
900 different paint color options is awesome.
Too bad jeeps aren't built for snow plowing. A covered one would be great for school or mall parking lots.
Jeeps can and have plowed for- well, forever.
You use a smaller plow, that's all.
Mall parking lots? no man, you use front end loaders for that.
Quote from: 93JC on March 05, 2018, 08:16:01 AM
Huh, every headline I've seen about this has called it a "tiny Jeep", without really going into details. I think it says more about where we're at with modern cars, knowing now that this thing is about the width of a CJ-3 and length of a CJ-7.
no, this is a tiny Jeep;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M422_Mighty_Mite
For a while, you could get a new, road legal version of the M151A2 for around $14,000. It was called Titan something, and it looks to have disappeared off the internet completely. It would have been a great alternative to the Roxor.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 05, 2018, 07:39:52 AM
Man I wish someone would make a track only car like this
Big go kart please
They already make those. There are any number of small, inexpensive formula cars out there. Google "F500" or "Formula 500". A friend ran these for several years in SCCA before switching to a shifter kart.
Quote from: MX793 on March 05, 2018, 09:30:36 AM
They already make those. There are any number of small, inexpensive formula cars out there. Google "F500" or "Formula 500". A friend ran these for several years in SCCA before switching to a shifter kart.
I'm probably gonna go that route at some point. El Camino, DD sports car, family car, racing kart. I can use the El Camino to haul the kart.
All you guys saying that you can plow with a Jeep... When I was seriously considering buying one all of the Jeep Wrangler forums were indicating that it was a terrible idea. Just like putting a plow on my Infiniti QX56. The frame isn't sturdy enough, especially for heavy wet snow, and if you do it with any regularity you'll mess up your car. They're just not designed for it unlike a 3/4 ton class pickup. It's different if you get a used beater Wrangler and just use it for your driveway. Even then you gotta be real careful that you don't push too heavy snow. You'll mess up the frame and transmission.
Yeah you're right for a mall it's too small anyways.
Quote from: veeman on March 08, 2018, 01:29:36 PM
All you guys saying that you can plow with a Jeep... When I was seriously considering buying one all of the Jeep Wrangler forums were indicating that it was a terrible idea. Just like putting a plow on my Infiniti QX56. The frame isn't sturdy enough, especially for heavy wet snow, and if you do it with any regularity you'll mess up your car. They're just not designed for it unlike a 3/4 ton class pickup. It's different if you get a used beater Wrangler and just use it for your driveway. Even then you gotta be real careful that you don't push too heavy snow. You'll mess up the frame and transmission.
Yeah you're right for a mall it's too small anyways.
Hmmm, forums versus real world experience...
I would expect Jeep forums to be more practically minded than most, but who knows?
Snow plows fuck up anything smaller than a dump truck if used with any regulatory. My old work had some F250 Super Duty trucks with a plow package and they still suffered.
I think I would get a Roxor before spending as much or more on a frikkin side by side that you can't use on the road... But that's about the only case I can figure out for one.
Quote from: r0tor on March 08, 2018, 04:29:49 PM
Snow plows fuck up anything smaller than a dump truck if used with any regulatory. My old work had some F250 Super Duty trucks with a plow package and they still suffered.
I think I would get a Roxor before spending as much or more on a frikkin side by side that you can't use on the road... But that's about the only case I can figure out for one.
The Roxor isn't road legal either. It's just a side-by-side dressed up to look like a Jeep.
Lots of side-by-sides are street legal in town. :huh:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 08, 2018, 05:11:21 PM
Lots of side-by-sides are street legal in town. :huh:
Maybe if you live in the vast, sparsely populated states between the Mississippi and California (Utah, Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas, etc) that permit the use of ORVs/ATVs on public roads. These are not street-legal in civilized places. It fails to meet federal automotive safety standards, so it can't be registered as an automobile.
Quote from: MX793 on March 08, 2018, 05:18:54 PM
Maybe if you live in the vast, sparsely populated states between the Mississippi and California (Utah, Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas, etc) that permit the use of ORVs/ATVs on public roads. These are not street-legal in civilized places. It fails to meet federal automotive safety standards, so it can't be registered as an automobile.
In Michigan they'll sell "road legal" kits for these that add turn signals, windshield wipers and sprayers, and a couple other things. You can then get them imspected and plated for road use.
Quote from: veeman on March 08, 2018, 01:29:36 PM
All you guys saying that you can plow with a Jeep... When I was seriously considering buying one all of the Jeep Wrangler forums were indicating that it was a terrible idea. Just like putting a plow on my Infiniti QX56. The frame isn't sturdy enough, especially for heavy wet snow, and if you do it with any regularity you'll mess up your car. They're just not designed for it unlike a 3/4 ton class pickup. It's different if you get a used beater Wrangler and just use it for your driveway. Even then you gotta be real careful that you don't push too heavy snow. You'll mess up the frame and transmission.
Yeah you're right for a mall it's too small anyways.
A plow wreaks havoc on any vehicle. Come up here some time and marvel.
Quote from: MX793 on March 08, 2018, 04:54:49 PM
The Roxor isn't road legal either. It's just a side-by-side dressed up to look like a Jeep.
It's not road legal? Will then fuck that
Quote from: MX793 on March 08, 2018, 04:54:49 PM
The Roxor isn't road legal either. It's just a side-by-side dressed up to look like a Jeep.
Well, no, it's a licensed Jeep copy from India that is being sold over here as a side-by-side competitor. It fundamentally isn't much different from old Jeeps that were road legal decades ago.
Quote from: MX793 on March 08, 2018, 05:18:54 PM
Maybe if you live in the vast, sparsely populated states between the Mississippi and California (Utah, Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas, etc) that permit the use of ORVs/ATVs on public roads.
And the UP. :praise:
Have any of you even driven a SBS? The hate is unwarranted...they're fuckin' badass. Who cares if you can't drive it to the grocery store...that's not what it was designed for. They're absolute animals in the dirt. :nutty:
If it's not road legal, I don't see any benefit over a RZR
Quote from: r0tor on March 09, 2018, 09:47:13 AM
If it's not road legal, I don't see any benefit over a RZR
Get a VIN from a junkyard Jeep and make it legal.
Quote from: r0tor on March 09, 2018, 09:47:13 AM
If it's not road legal, I don't see any benefit over a RZR
It's probably more durable as a work/farm vehicle, but less capable off road.
Also, in many states most can be made road legal.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 09, 2018, 09:50:15 AM
Get a VIN from a junkyard Jeep and make it legal.
In NY, if the VIN has been reported as salvaged/junked, you need to go through bunch of hoops and inspections to show that the vehicle is now road-worthy to register that VIN. Said inspections will quickly show that the vehicle isn't a Jeep.
I recommend not living in NY
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 09, 2018, 10:34:15 AM
I recommend not living in NY
NY's not the only place that does it. It goes beyond assuring road-worthiness. It's a means of curbing car thefts and trafficking of stolen vehicles. Heard a story about a guy who restored a classic Ford (Mustang, I think) and he removed the firewall VIN tag so he could repair some rust damage to the firewall in that area, then riveted it back on. Took the car to a classic car auction and an inspector noted the new rivets on the VIN tag. Car was impounded by the police until he could prove that was the actual VIN tag for that car.
How do they manage to get a 2.5L turbodiesel to put out only 62HP?
Quote from: Morris Minor on March 17, 2018, 06:22:11 AM
How do they manage to get a 2.5L turbodiesel to put out only 62HP?
That's right in line with most industrial grade engines.
I was curious too, how it only managed to make 62 hp from a 2.5 L. I suspect this is an old International Harvester tractor engine with a new head and fuel injection system. Mahindra is now the largest tractor manufacturer in the world. They got their start in the tractor market building licensed copies of IH products.
In India the vehicle is sold as the Thar, which is marketed with a new 105 hp engine and this older 63 hp one: http://www.mahindrathar.com/mahindra-thar-models.aspx#!thar-models-specification
A 2523 cc engine is also sold in at least some of their tractors: https://www.mahindratractor.com/tractor-mechanisation-solutions/tractor/mahindra-595-di It's the exact same displacement as their jeep engine; I presume it's the same.
I figured this is an old IH engine given the bore and stroke, 88.9 mm x 101.6 mm, converts to exactly 3.5" x 4": same as an IH BD154 diesel from the '60s.
They need to make the 105 hp engine an option.
I doubt they will, in order to keep up the appearance that this is strictly an off-road vehicle. You can see on the Mahindra website that the Thar comes with a much more substantial interior, full windshield, doors, roof, etc. that the Roxor won't have. More power and creature comforts will raise the ire of government regulators who may consider it a non-FMVSS-compliant car instead.
I wonder how easy it would be to mod it. Im assuming it's an iron block
Quote from: Rich on March 18, 2018, 06:16:10 AM
I wonder how easy it would be to mod it. Im assuming it's an iron block
Diesels often just need moar boost; but really, 62 HP is plenty for an offroad vehicle of this size
Yeah, crawling through the woods is relatively easy work. More tire spin isn't always a good thing.
More is always better
Comparing the Roxor with the Polaris RZR XP 1000...
Roxor: 62 HP at 3200 RPM and 144 lb-ft at 1400 rpm.
RZR: 110 HP @ 8500 RPM and 70 lb-ft @ 7600 rpm.
At 3200 rpm, the RZR is only making 35 hp, and at 1400 rpm, ~50 ft-lb of torque. Different machines at roughly the same price, but it's clear the Roxor is a low speed, high grunt offroader. It'll tractor over a hill, while the RZR will spin a roostertail at high rpm going up the hill.
Comparing the two seems pretty moot.
Quote from: giant_mtb on March 18, 2018, 07:40:10 PM
Comparing the two seems pretty moot.
Why? They're 2 seater SBS's that cost roughly the same. A comparison is important to decide what kind of offroading you want to do.
Quote from: Rockraven on March 18, 2018, 07:46:15 PM
Why? They're 2 seater SBS's that cost roughly the same. A comparison is important to decide what kind of offroading you want to do.
Fair enough.
Quote from: Rockraven on March 18, 2018, 07:46:15 PM
Why? They're 2 seater SBS's that cost roughly the same. A comparison is important to decide what kind of offroading you want to do.
It's like comparing a Kawasaki Mule to a RZR. Or a Polaris Ranger to the RZR, if we want to stay in the same stable. The Roxor is more a utility vehicle, whereas the RZR is a sport/performance model.
Quote from: MX793 on March 18, 2018, 08:26:37 PM
It's like comparing a Kawasaki Mule to a RZR. Or a Polaris Ranger to the RZR, if we want to stay in the same stable. The Roxor is more a utility vehicle, whereas the RZR is a sport/performance model.
It's like cross shopping a Wrangler and a Raptor. Or a Silverado and a Camara. Or something.
It's definitely the market they're trying to attract, but I think they're doing so more out of necessity than anything. For what it's worth Mahindra already makes a couple side-by-sides, the Retriever and XTV. I think they're using this thing to dip their toes into the full-fledged automobile market without having to go through the rigamarole of fully certifying a product. There was talk they wanted to sell their pickup truck here about eight years ago, remember? I bet they still do.
Quote from: MX793 on March 18, 2018, 08:26:37 PM
It's like comparing a Kawasaki Mule to a RZR. Or a Polaris Ranger to the RZR, if we want to stay in the same stable. The Roxor is more a utility vehicle, whereas the RZR is a sport/performance model.
Well yeah, no shit. I just wanted to compare the 2 types. Most, or at least many buyers don't know what kind of SBS they need or want, which is why they should compare them.
MSRP on their US configurator starts at $14,999.
Quote from: giant_mtb on March 18, 2018, 07:40:10 PM
Comparing the two seems pretty moot.
They're both off road toys in the same price range.
Quote from: Rockraven on March 18, 2018, 08:45:42 PM
Most, or at least many buyers don't know what kind of SBS they need or want
You say this as if the Internet doesn't exist and people don't do hours of research before walking into a powersports shop to drop $15k. 🤔
Quote from: giant_mtb on March 18, 2018, 09:15:45 PM
You say this as if the Internet doesn't exist and people don't do hours of research before walking into a powersports shop to drop $15k. 🤔
Right... to compare the different types to determine what fits their needs. The main point of my comparison was the complaint that the Roxor engine was only 62 hp from 2500 cc, while other SBS's have well over 100 from 800-1000 cc's. At low rpm, where the rough terrain grunt is needed, the RZR and Maverick types are only making around half the power of the Roxor. Conversely, the Roxor won't touch the high revving SBS's in open terrain.
Quote from: giant_mtb on March 18, 2018, 09:15:45 PM
You say this as if the Internet doesn't exist and people don't do hours of research before walking into a powersports shop to drop $15k. 🤔
LOL Tons of people just get a tax return or itching to go 'outdoors' and likely do just go drop money on stuff. They're not even paying for it, they're getting a loan.
Quote from: Rockraven on March 19, 2018, 05:30:07 AM
Right... to compare the different types to determine what fits their needs. The main point of my comparison was the complaint that the Roxor engine was only 62 hp from 2500 cc, while other SBS's have well over 100 from 800-1000 cc's. At low rpm, where the rough terrain grunt is needed, the RZR and Maverick types are only making around half the power of the Roxor. Conversely, the Roxor won't touch the high revving SBS's in open terrain.
Power/torque @ RPM doesn't really matter that much with the RZR since it has a CVT (snowmobile transmission).
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/fca-seeks-to-stop-jeep-like-mahindra-roxor-4x4-in-the-us
:rolleyes: :facepalm:
Not surprised FCA is doing that. They make a shit-ton of money from Jeep Wrangler sales, and the Roxor is very clearly just a CJ with a slightly different grille. Mahindra had a licence to build copies in India, and I would strongly suspect that licensing agreement would not allow them to sell these outside of India (and perhaps some of India's neighbouring countries). Jeep still makes a mint off of a very similar successor vehicle: they have to defend their trademarks as vigorously as they can in order to maintain them.
Quote from: 93JC on August 09, 2018, 06:33:51 PM
Not surprised FCA is doing that. They make a shit-ton of money from Jeep Wrangler sales, and the Roxor is very clearly just a CJ with a slightly different grille. Mahindra had a licence to build copies in India, and I would strongly suspect that licensing agreement would not allow them to sell these outside of India (and perhaps some of India's neighbouring countries). Jeep still makes a mint off of a very similar successor vehicle: they have to defend their trademarks as vigorously as they can in order to maintain them.
I dunno the conditions of the license agreement, but I don't think Mahindra would do this if it thought it was in contravention to that agreement. In their favour, it's based on a long obsolete design, and it's off-road only, marketed as a side-by-side ATV. FCA can go pound sand.
Didn't Chrysler/Jeep try to go after Hummer for using a similar grille design?
They didn't try to go after Hummer, they DID go after them for using a seven-slot grille. Their application for an injunction against GM was tossed for many reasons, among them the fact that the Hummer brand was borne of the same lineage as Jeep and they BOTH used seven-slot grilles for decades before DaimlerChrysler filed suit, and there had been many Jeeps made without seven-slot grilles.
The XJ alone had 10 slots ('84-'87)...
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EXme55_gFsk/maxresdefault.jpg)
...eight ('88-'96)...
(https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/gallery/JEEPCherokee-XJ--794_3.jpg)
...21 ('84-'85 Wagoneer)...
(http://www.imcdb.org/i056611.jpg)
... and no vertical slots at all! ('86-'90 Wagoneer)
(https://autoweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/gen-932-524/public/wagoneer.jpg?itok=0oz5Nq0u)
Well, they at least changed the grille from that of their home market Thar to mitigate the possibility of FCA getting their panties in a bunch...
(https://www.carblogindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Mahindra-Roxor-Vs-Mahindra-Thar-Front-720x359.jpg)
Quote from: Rockraven on August 09, 2018, 06:48:59 PM
I dunno the conditions of the license agreement, but I don't think Mahindra would do this if it thought it was in contravention to that agreement. In their favour, it's based on a long obsolete design, and it's off-road only, marketed as a side-by-side ATV. FCA can go pound sand.
Agreed. I feel like Mahindra knew what they were doing and had/have their asses covered. Don't worry, Jeep, the Roxor really isn't going to cut into Wrangler sales. It's pretty niche for the simple fact that it's extremely spartan and not street legal.
I think Mahindra knew what they were doing insofar as they're very careful to have changed the grille, removed most of the dashboard, deleted turn signals, etc. and marketed the vehicle exclusively as a "side-by-side" competitor. They probably knew FCA would have issue with this truck being sold here, so prepared themselves in advance to make the argument "Hey, look, we changed the look of the thing and made it so it's not street-legal and we've marketed it as an off-highway utility vehicle; we're not competing in the same market as Jeep®."
What will end up working against them is that in some states and municipalities the Roxor is legal to drive on-road. (I.e. in places where golf carts, SxS and ATVs are street-legal.) It's also incredibly easy to get aftermarket CJ-5 parts to make a Roxor "street-legal".
Seems easier to just get a used Wrangler you can drive on the road :huh:
Quote from: 93JC on August 10, 2018, 11:38:01 AM
I think Mahindra knew what they were doing insofar as they're very careful to have changed the grille, removed most of the dashboard, deleted turn signals, etc. and marketed the vehicle exclusively as a "side-by-side" competitor. They probably knew FCA would have issue with this truck being sold here, so prepared themselves in advance to make the argument "Hey, look, we changed the look of the thing and made it so it's not street-legal and we've marketed it as an off-highway utility vehicle; we're not competing in the same market as Jeep®."
What will end up working against them is that in some states and municipalities the Roxor is legal to drive on-road. (I.e. in places where golf carts, SxS and ATVs are street-legal.) It's also incredibly easy to get aftermarket CJ-5 parts to make a Roxor "street-legal".
Well that depends on the jurisdiction, of course. No matter what street legal additions you put on a Roxor, you'll never be able to register it for the road in Ontario, and I bet you can't in any other province either.
Quote from: MrH on August 10, 2018, 11:49:10 AM
Seems easier to just get a used Wrangler you can drive on the road :huh:
That can be said for any SBS ATV, which is basically saying there's no point to them, why bother.
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 10, 2018, 09:42:52 AM
Agreed. I feel like Mahindra knew what they were doing and had/have their asses covered. Don't worry, Jeep, the Roxor really isn't going to cut into Wrangler sales. It's pretty niche for the simple fact that it's extremely spartan and not street legal.
What FCA really needs to do is start making an off road only Jeep to compete with the SBSs. Call it a CJ9, and make absolutely no pretense about it being an on highway vehicle.
Cars like the first Land Cruiser are also remarkable close to the Jeep styling.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 11, 2018, 07:43:33 AM
What FCA really needs to do is start making an off road only Jeep to compete with the SBSs. Call it a CJ9, and make absolutely no pretense about it being an on highway vehicle.
What it really boils down to, is that Jeep is butthurt it didn't think of this. A whole new segment to exploit.
Quote from: Rockraven on August 11, 2018, 12:19:17 PM
What it really boils down to, is that Jeep is butthurt it didn't think of this. A whole new segment to exploit.
Road-legal Jeeps are selling quite well, and they probably don't want to cannibalize their own market.
Jeep could spin up a sub brand or invest in Polaris or something.
Quote from: Galaxy on August 11, 2018, 12:16:24 PM
Cars like the first Land Cruiser are also remarkable close to the Jeep styling.
The Land Cruiser was sued- successfully. After the BJs though, later designs diverged enough to avoid further lawsuits.
Quote from: Laconian on August 11, 2018, 12:22:36 PM
Road-legal Jeeps are selling quite well, and they probably don't want to cannibalize their own market.
Jeep could spin up a sub brand or invest in Polaris or something.
A non road legal Jeep couldn't possibly be a threat to their current sales.
No one cares about SBS
Its a half million unit per year segment. Guaranteed some people care.
Quote from: 2o6 on August 11, 2018, 12:27:59 PM
No one cares about SBS
You need to get outta the city more.
I think its fair to say that young male gay black urban dwelling creatives aren't exactly the target audience here.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HQUf9Y1Oi0
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 11, 2018, 12:23:10 PM
The Land Cruiser was sued- successfully. After the BJs though, later designs diverged enough to avoid further lawsuits.
Did not know that, interesting.
SBS are the way to go if you're gonna do a lot of adventuring. Don't have to worry about breaking your main vehicle and they're built to withstand more from the factory, no modding your Jeep necessary
... except that a Jeep is street-legal, and in most places side-by-sides aren't. You have to get your SxS to wherever it is you're going "adventuring", usually meaning truck and trailer.
Yeah? That's the point. And then if you break it, you just tow it home.
I'd rather get an RZR that is dedicated to off-road fun than a Jeep that has to compromise between the street and trail.
Quote from: 93JC on August 11, 2018, 03:40:53 PM
... except that a Jeep is street-legal, and in most places side-by-sides aren't. You have to get your SxS to wherever it is you're going "adventuring", usually meaning truck and trailer.
No, you have to buy a house correctly. Where you can leave your driveway and just go. Like me. Suck it.
Jeeps also need registration & insurance.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 11, 2018, 06:32:07 PM
Jeeps also need registration & insurance.
A lot of places now require registration and insurance to operate ATVs on public land/trails.
Quote from: MX793 on August 11, 2018, 06:56:48 PM
A lot of places now require registration and insurance to operate ATVs on public land/trails.
ORV stickers and insurance are a fraction of real car insurance; its less than even motorcycle insurance. And it doesn't apply to everybody everywhere.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 11, 2018, 03:51:54 PM
Yeah? That's the point. And then if you break it, you just tow it home.
I'd rather get an RZR that is dedicated to off-road fun than a Jeep that has to compromise between the street and trail.
Obviously a street-legal SUV has to make some compromises; to say "yeah, that's the point, if you break a side-by-side you just tow it home" is failing to acknowledge how incredibly impractical that is for many people. You make it sound like people ought to just have a truck and trailer at their disposal, and ignore the costs of that. A street-legal SUV is a hell of a lot more convenient to own, precisely because you can drive it on public roads to get it to trailheads. If you don't live right by a trailhead and don't already have a truck and trailer to tow the thing around in a side-by-side is, frankly: pointless, stupid, and preposterously expensive.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 11, 2018, 06:32:07 PM
Jeeps also need registration & insurance.
Quote from: MX793 on August 11, 2018, 06:56:48 PM
A lot of places now require registration and insurance to operate ATVs on public land/trails.
:hesaid:
Here you're not allowed to drive an "off-highway vehicle" on public land without valid registration and insurance.
Sucks to live where you live. :huh: :lol:
Quote from: Rockraven on August 11, 2018, 06:27:45 PM
No, you have to buy a house correctly. Where you can leave your driveway and just go. Like me. Suck it.
:rockon:
That's one great thing about a small town. Or virtually anywhere in the UP. You're very unlikely to be pulled over on/in an ORV cruising through town to get on the trail unless you're being a goon. I've ridden through town dozens of times and seen cops multiple times and have yet to be stopped.
Also nice that the shop is 2 blocks from the trail. But I'll buzz through town if I wanna hit a different spot.
A street legal SUV that's actually used off road is usually either well modified, or a factory option package that cost equal to what a trailer and a decent SBS will cost. Look at a Rubicon versus a base Wrangler, or even better a Raptor versus an F150.
Plus, driving your trail rig everyday costs money in gas, while wearing down your expensive MT tires, and all in all giving you a worse on-road experience.
Cost wise, I'd bet its a wash a best; and that before the inevitable repairs and wear and tear start to show.
One of the things something like a Roxor has over a SBS as a true adventure vehicle is cargo space. Not much space on a SBS for multiple days worth of camping gear, especially if both seats are occupied.
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 11, 2018, 08:27:02 PM
One of the things something like a Roxor has over a SBS as a true adventure vehicle is cargo space. Not much space on a SBS for multiple days worth of camping gear, especially if both seats are occupied.
A 4 seater RZR might be close if you pack the back seats with gear. Although the Roxor probably competes with the more utilitarian models instead of the racy RZRs
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 11, 2018, 09:23:00 PM
A 4 seater RZR might be close if you pack the back seats with gear. Although the Roxor probably competes with the more utilitarian models instead of the racy RZRs
Yeah. 4 seat SBS's are weird, though. I'd pick a Roxor over one any day.
There is no point to building a non-street legal wrangler... The standard issue is more capable then 99.999% of its owners need it to be.
It's an imagine only truck, which means it needs to be street legal to be seen in
Quote from: r0tor on August 12, 2018, 03:24:33 PM
There is no point to building a non-street legal wrangler... The standard issue is more capable then 99.999% of its owners need it to be.
It's an imagine only truck, which means it needs to be street legal to be seen in
Not this horseshit again. :facepalm:
New Wranglers are over $30k now. If Jeep entered the SBS market with a resurrection of a stripped and lightened CJ5, offroad only and at $15,000, I think they'd do quite well. Granted, a street legal used $15,000 Wrangler would be a more sensible purchase, but the SBS market isn't about sensibility. $25,000+ 4 seat SBS's sell regardless of more practical street legal SUV's in that price range.
Quote from: r0tor on August 12, 2018, 03:24:33 PM
There is no point to building a non-street legal wrangler... The standard issue is more capable then 99.999% of its owners need it to be.
It's an imagine only truck, which means it needs to be street legal to be seen in
I understand that you don't understand the off-roading world, but you don't understand.
If most wranglers went off of the pavement, every offroad park would be a traffic jam parking lot
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 06:20:26 AM
If most wranglers went off of the pavement, every offroad park would be a traffic jam parking lot
If every sports car went to the race track...
Your point is moot and point-less.
A Roxor will just about always be off road because it's not allowed to be on the road. Ergo, it's a commitment to off roading, and is far cheaper than a new Wrangler.
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 06:20:26 AM
If most wranglers went off of the pavement, every offroad park would be a traffic jam parking lot
More than most other offroad oriented vehicles, they do. That doesn't mean they spend the majority of the time there, nor does it mean the majority of Wranglers are even used offroad regularly. It certainly doesn't mean they go to offroad parks to do so.
SBSs sell in the range of 500,000 units per year, and the market is growing. A whole bunch of those are being towed with Jeep vehicles of some type; which means there's already a potential market for a Jeep SBS like the Roxor.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 13, 2018, 06:47:44 AM
SBSs sell in the range of 500,000 units per year, and the market is growing. A whole bunch of those are being towed with Jeep vehicles of some type; which means there's already a potential market for a Jeep SBS like the Roxor.
The SBS market is crazy. I wonder how 4 wheeler sales have dropped compared to the rise of SBS sales. Basically anybody that can afford it is making the switch from a quad to a SBS.
SBSs are a different market of offroad then wranglers. SBSs are more desert runners where independant suspension is favored.
Besides striping out airbags (and taking a small fraction off the msrp) , I'm not sure what else jeep would do for an offroad only wrangler... It's not like the design is all that compromised for street usage.
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 08:59:40 AM
SBSs are a different market of offroad then wranglers. SBSs are more desert runners where independant suspension is favored.
Besides striping out airbags (and taking a small fraction off the msrp) , I'm not sure what else jeep would do for an offroad only wrangler... It's not like the design is all that compromised for street usage.
What's your point...? lol. A Wrangler starts at $27.5k. A Roxor is $15.5k. Roxors are cool. Wranglers are cool. Want a Wrangler? Buy a Wrangler. Want a Roxor, buy a Roxor.
Stop getting so butthurt about other people's decisions. Your obsession with "other people's" image really shows that it's you who has the issue with image. :huh:
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2018, 09:07:29 AM
What's your point...? lol. A Wrangler starts at $27.5k. A Roxor is $15.5k. Roxors are cool. Wranglers are cool. Want a Wrangler? Buy a Wrangler. Want a Roxor, buy a Roxor.
Stop getting so butthurt about other people's decisions. Your obsession with "other people's" image really shows that it's you who has the issue with image. :huh:
Who buys a new Wrangler to go beat it up on the trails as a toy? You buy a used Wrangler for that kind of thing, which can easily go for the price of a Roxor.
Quote from: MX793 on August 13, 2018, 09:16:44 AM
Who buys a new Wrangler to go beat it up on the trails as a toy? You buy a used Wrangler for that kind of thing, which can easily go for the price of a Roxor.
Yeah, so...if you wanna do that, then do that. Why is it such an argument...? The Roxor has a certain "cool factor," just like any other toy. Don't like it, don't buy one.
If Mahindra can find buyers, more power to them. Not sure I quite see a market that isn't otherwise served. Whether somebody buys a new Roxor or used Wrangler as a trail toy is no skin off my nose, either. I think the Polaris Slingshot is a waste of money when you can get a very gently used, or even new, Miata for the same money. But people buy them...
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2018, 09:07:29 AM
What's your point...? lol. A Wrangler starts at $27.5k. A Roxor is $15.5k. Roxors are cool. Wranglers are cool. Want a Wrangler? Buy a Wrangler. Want a Roxor, buy a Roxor.
Stop getting so butthurt about other people's decisions. Your obsession with "other people's" image really shows that it's you who has the issue with image. :huh:
So for $12k in savings you get a 40 year old design... Yay
Just get a used wrangler for the money
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 10:24:16 AM
So for $12k in savings you get a 40 year old design... Yay
Just get a used wrangler for the money
Maybe they want something brand new. Maybe they want a CJ5 looking SBS.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 13, 2018, 10:33:34 AM
Maybe they want something brand new. Maybe they want a CJ5 looking SBS.
The amount of work trying to justify that much money for a 65hp ancient designed jeep is a bit much
You're the one who is putting a lot of work into bashing something that you clearly don't understand.
I'm not gonna buy one, but I'm not gonna stupidly say that no one else will either. I live in the SBS capital of the world and know the people who buy them.
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 08:59:40 AM
SBSs are a different market of offroad then wranglers. SBSs are more desert runners where independant suspension is favored.
Besides striping out airbags (and taking a small fraction off the msrp) , I'm not sure what else jeep would do for an offroad only wrangler... It's not like the design is all that compromised for street usage.
Funny, how I live nowhere near a desert and yet they're still wildly popular here then. Maybe there's something you're missing.
Nobody has said or even implied a Jeep branded SBS would be based off the current Wrangler.
Yeah...SBS are not strictly desert runners. lol.
I've only ever seen a side-by-side at a motorcycle show; never seen one out in the wild. :mask:
Quote from: 93JC on August 13, 2018, 12:00:37 PM
I've only ever seen a side-by-side at a motorcycle show; never seen one out in the wild. :mask:
I figured everybody in Canada had one by now and people just drove them to work and sold their vehicles.
Nah man, we all take our snowmobiles to work.
Quote from: 93JC on August 13, 2018, 12:06:59 PM
Nah man, we all take our snowmobiles to work.
Throw some tracks on that sum'bish.
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2018, 11:27:39 AM
Yeah...SBS are not strictly desert runners. lol.
Desert running as in higher speed offroad driving... They definitely suck for rock crawling (which is where a wrangler is well suited)
Yes, that must be why Polaris sells rock crawling packages for its SBSs, why many, many clubs for rock crawling SBSs specifically exist, there are aftermarket companies that exclusively cater to rock crawling UTVs and why they have their own class at King of the Hammers.
https://rzr.polaris.com/en-us/rzr-xp-1000-eps-trails-rocks-edition/
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7id5DxjtkGs
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 02:41:31 PM
Desert running as in higher speed offroad driving... They definitely suck for rock crawling (which is where a wrangler is well suited)
Enter the Roxor.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 13, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Yes, that must be why Polaris sells rock crawling packages for its SBSs, why many, many clubs for rock crawling SBSs specifically exist, there are aftermarket companies that exclusively cater to rock crawling UTVs and why they have their own class at King of the Hammers.
https://rzr.polaris.com/en-us/rzr-xp-1000-eps-trails-rocks-edition/
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7id5DxjtkGs
There is generally nothing left after a razor is modded to go rock crawling... and the same can be done as or more easily with an old jeep
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 03:59:48 PM
There is generally nothing left after a razor is modded to go rock crawling... and the same can be done as or more easily with an old jeep
Ten minutes ago, you were ignorant that this is even done. Now, you're an expert on what modifications it takes.
Don't kid yourself; those are far closer to stock than any Jeep doing the same thing.
Quote from: Rockraven on March 18, 2018, 07:36:43 PM
Comparing the Roxor with the Polaris RZR XP 1000...
Roxor: 62 HP at 3200 RPM and 144 lb-ft at 1400 rpm.
RZR: 110 HP @ 8500 RPM and 70 lb-ft @ 7600 rpm.
At 3200 rpm, the RZR is only making 35 hp, and at 1400 rpm, ~50 ft-lb of torque. Different machines at roughly the same price, but it's clear the Roxor is a low speed, high grunt offroader. It'll tractor over a hill, while the RZR will spin a roostertail at high rpm going up the hill.
RZR generates its power at high rpm. It's not made to be a rock crawler, unlike the Roxor, which has its grunt at a much lower rpm.
Quote from: Rockraven on August 13, 2018, 04:03:25 PM
RZR generates its power at high rpm. It's not made to be a rock crawler, unlike the Roxor, which has its grunt at a much lower rpm.
The Roxor creates no power at any rpm
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 13, 2018, 04:01:58 PM
Ten minutes ago, you were ignorant that this is even done. Now, you're an expert on what modifications it takes.
Don't kid yourself; those are far closer to stock than any Jeep doing the same thing.
Yea, if only I hadn't watched it on top gear, diesel Brothers, and various other automotive programming you might be on to something
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 04:29:59 PM
The Roxor creates no power at any rpm
It's not an RX8.
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 04:29:59 PM
The Roxor creates no power at any rpm
Dude it makes 90% the torque of your RX-8 and weighs about the same. Low end grunt is what you want off road. That's what the Roxor has.
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 04:31:19 PM
Yea, if only I hadn't watched it on top gear, diesel Brothers, and various other automotive programming you might be on to something
Your post history tells a different story.
Bottom line is people are rock crawling these, and paying good money to do so. That's all you need to make a business case. You can claim its stupid. That doesn't matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viwHijpPk4U
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 13, 2018, 04:40:12 PM
Your post history tells a different story.
Bottom line is people are rock crawling these, and paying good money to do so. That's all you need to make a business case. You can claim its stupid. That doesn't matter.
The amount of money spent on rock crawling a razor could just be spent on any number of rock crawling chassis setups with better results... and probably cheaper
People race pintos and chevettes... Doesn't mean its actually a good thing to do
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 04:49:25 PM
The amount of money spent on rock crawling a razor could just be spent on any number of rock crawling chassis setups with better results... and probably cheaper
People race pintos and chevettes... Doesn't mean its actually a good thing to do
Yeah, you clearly have no idea what these things cost in relation to one another, much less their capabilities out of the box.
Again; in the end it doesn't matter what you think of them; it matters if they'll sell. Half a million units a year and a strong aftermarket support system says they will.
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 04:49:25 PM
The amount of money spent on rock crawling a razor could just be spent on any number of rock crawling chassis setups with better results... and probably cheaper
People race pintos and chevettes... Doesn't mean its actually a good thing to do
The real question is...why do you care? You clearly aren't in the market or demographic for these types of vehicles. Is this 'cause we all rag on Tezluh?
LMAO... Leave it in 4Low because it doesn't have enough power
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 13, 2018, 04:52:07 PM
Yeah, you clearly have no idea what these things cost in relation to one another, much less their capabilities out of the box.
Again; in the end it doesn't matter what you think of them; it matters if they'll sell. Half a million units a year and a strong aftermarket support system says they will.
You can buy a rock crawler chassis for $4k. Most rock crawling razors get stripped down completely to the chassis and most if not all major components replaced... But yea, obviously I'm clueless
GM sells hundreds of thousands of shit boxes a year... Big deal again
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2018, 04:53:39 PM
The real question is...why do you care? You clearly aren't in the market or demographic for these types of vehicles. Is this 'cause we all rag on Tezluh?
Why do you care that I think anyone who spends close to $20k on one of these shitboxes needs their damn heads examined?
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 04:56:19 PM
LMAO... Leave it in 4Low because it doesn't have enough power
If you're tryin' to bomb around in the sand...yeah...makes sense. It doesn't have a lot of power for that. It's not designed for "desert running" like a performance SBS. Why is this so hard for you to understand.
I mean, you do know that this thing is only designed/geared to get up to ~45mph, right...?
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 05:03:43 PM
Why do you care that I think anyone who spends close to $20k on one of these shitboxes needs their damn heads examined?
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2018, 04:53:39 PM
You clearly aren't in the market or demographic for these types of vehicles.
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2018, 04:59:09 PM
You can buy a rock crawler chassis for $4k. Most rock crawling razors get stripped down completely to the chassis and most if not all major components replaced... But yea, obviously I'm clueless
GM sells hundreds of thousands of shit boxes a year... Big deal again
1: No, you can't. A tack welded bare cage doesn't count. Let's not even talk about the difference in finished vehicles, which can top 6 figures easily.
2: No, they don't. Check out the stock factory Polaris I already linked. A full-on competition one might, but we're neither talking about many buyers or typical rigs at that point.
3: Yes, you are. Not only that, you're steadfast in taking pride in your cluelessness.
4: Yes, this all comes down to potential sales as a business proposition. What GM does is irrelevant, as is what you think of the potential buyers.
Another thing being missed here is many ATV designated trails have a width limit. Wranglers and other full size vehicles don't fit and aren't allowed.
This is what a Roxor is for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITzj8r-95BU
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2018, 06:32:05 AM
If every sports car went to the race track...
Your point is moot and point-less.
A Roxor will just about always be off road because it's not allowed to be on the road. Ergo, it's a commitment to off roading, and is far cheaper than a new Wrangler.
The only Roxors I've seen were owned by race teams as an alternative to a golf cart. They were on pavement 100% of the time.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 13, 2018, 05:34:57 PM
Another thing being missed here is many ATV designated trails have a width limit. Wranglers and other full size vehicles don't fit and aren't allowed.
This. The old railbed is the main ATV artery here, and regular Wranglers and the like, even a Samurai, wouldn't be allowed. The Roxor with offroad plates is, like any other SBS.
Quote from: 68_427 on August 13, 2018, 06:58:17 PM
The only Roxors I've seen were owned by race teams as an alternative to a golf cart. They were on pavement 100% of the time.
Hey, that's fine. If you wanna spend $19k on a golf cart...go for it. I'm not gonna get butthurt about it. :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2018, 06:28:49 PM
This is what a Roxor is for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITzj8r-95BU
Needs a locker on at least the rear axle or something.
Quote from: MX793 on August 13, 2018, 08:06:54 PM
Needs a locker on at least the rear axle or something.
Agreed. Saw that front wheel spinning like whaaaaaaat.
Quote from: Rockraven on August 13, 2018, 07:31:55 PM
This. The old railbed is the main ATV artery here, and regular Wranglers and the like, even a Samurai, wouldn't be allowed. The Roxor with offroad plates is, like any other SBS.
There are two standards in Michigan for trails: 50 inches and 72 inches. The Roxor is 62 inches. Wranglers are 73, but still get ORV trail stickers. Raptors and full size pickups are right out. Most SBSs are exactly 50 inches.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 13, 2018, 08:51:00 PM
There are two standards in Michigan for trails: 50 inches and 72 inches. The Roxor is 62 inches. Wranglers are 73, but still get ORV trail stickers. Raptors and full size pickups are right out. Most SBSs are exactly 50 inches.
Yeah, there are a couple trails in my area that have strict width restrictions. And by strict, I mean there are big concrete blocks that you have to fit through to continue...and they're on railroad grade, so there's no going around. Vast majority of the ORV trails around here don't have them, but this section in particular is dual-use for pedestrians and bicycling as well, so they keep it toned down. The signs indicate that it's dirt bikes or quads/SBSs only...they drop the little Jeep-like symbol on those markers. A lot of it is probably because, since it's railroad grade through a swampy area, a full-size vehicle has nowhere to go to let another vehicle pass.
Like this.
(https://www.maltaward.co.uk/assets/maltaward-legato-xl-concrete-block.jpg)
(https://www.offroad-ed.com/mib/mi_specific_images/graphics/mi_MCCCT_new_route_marker.jpg)
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2018, 06:28:49 PM
This is what a Roxor is for.
<Off-Road Comparison: Mahindra Roxor vs. Willys CJ-2A vid>
For what it's worth the Willys "Go Devil" engine in the CJ-2A was—wait for it—60 hp. About the same as the Mahindra's diesel.
In retrospect, it was stupid to make this look like a Wrangler. They should have made it look like a Suzuki Samurai.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 15, 2018, 06:09:46 AM
In retrospect, it was stupid to make this look like a Wrangler. They should have made it look like a Suzuki Samurai.
? They didn't have license to the Samurai design like they did with the old Jeep.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 15, 2018, 06:09:46 AM
In retrospect, it was stupid to make this look like a Wrangler. They should have made it look like a Suzuki Samurai.
Its built from an old design that was actually a licensed Jeep. They changed it just enough to avoid lawsuits.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 15, 2018, 06:09:46 AM
In retrospect, it was stupid to make this look like a Wrangler. They should have made it look like a Suzuki Samurai.
Why, and why...?
Lol, it wasn't "made to look like a Wrangler": it IS an old Jeep.
Quote from: 93JC on August 15, 2018, 11:03:09 AM
Lol, it wasn't "made to look like a Wrangler": it IS an old Jeep.
Based on the old Willys. Looks like it.
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 15, 2018, 11:07:08 AM
Based on the old Willys. Looks like it.
More or less.
https://jalopnik.com/heres-how-similar-the-mahindra-roxor-is-to-an-old-jeep-1823474555
Mahindra has won the court case.
Yay.
Quote from: Rockraven on August 15, 2018, 06:33:45 AM
? They didn't have license to the Samurai design like they did with the old Jeep.
Even if they did, why
wouldn't they make it look like one of the most recognizable vehicles ever produced?
Oh look, the Roxor sucks
https://youtu.be/MURw4Gc2siU
Quote from: r0tor on December 08, 2018, 08:36:18 AM
Oh look, the Roxor sucks
https://youtu.be/MURw4Gc2siU
It has a solid frame, windshield and heater, and can tow 3500 lbs. That's more important to me than fording ice covered 2 foot deep puddles.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 08, 2018, 10:10:09 AM
It has a solid frame, windshield and heater, and can tow 3500 lbs. That's more important to me than fording ice covered 2 foot deep puddles.
It's almost like people have different requirements for the vehicles they purchase and, as a consumer, more choice is generally a good thing.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 08, 2018, 10:10:09 AM
It has a solid frame, windshield and heater, and can tow 3500 lbs. That's more important to me than fording ice covered 2 foot deep puddles.
... and so can a beat up old farm truck for $3k
Quote from: r0tor on December 08, 2018, 10:56:02 AM
... and so can a beat up old farm truck for $3k
Why'd you buy an Alfa, when a 10 yr old, $4000 Chrysler 300C does everything almost the same? Your argument is still dumb.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 08, 2018, 11:12:04 AM
Why'd you buy an Alfa, when a 10 yr old, $4000 Chrysler 300C does everything almost the same? Your argument is still dumb.
The argument comes down to "people who drive on dirt are dumb."
Quote from: Rockraven on December 08, 2018, 11:12:04 AM
Why'd you buy an Alfa, when a 10 yr old, $4000 Chrysler 300C does everything almost the same? Your argument is still dumb.
Because my alfa is a brilliant sports sedan and does its intended purpose extremely well?
Quote from: r0tor on December 08, 2018, 10:56:02 AM
... and so can a beat up old farm truck for $3k
$3K!? I have a GMC to sell you.
Aftermarket for these Roxors is gonna be yuuuuuge. 3" lift, some slightly bigger tires, and lockers? Shiiiiiit. The perfect mini-Wrangler.
The open diffs are pretty damning. Limited slip or locker, even if just on the rear axle, would make a huge difference.
Quote from: MX793 on December 09, 2018, 07:10:56 AM
The open diffs are pretty damning. Limited slip or locker, even if just on the rear axle, would make a huge difference.
Just checked the configurator... front and rear lockers are now options, but at $1800 per axle, or $3600 total, it's not cheap.
Do we know what kind/brand of axles they're using? That's about the going rate for a Dana 44.
Still, seems steep.
Quote from: giant_mtb on December 09, 2018, 08:56:01 AM
Do we know what kind/brand of axles they're using? That's about the going rate for a Dana 44.
Still, seems steep.
Yeah looks like 2 different options.
Quote from: giant_mtb on December 08, 2018, 05:01:42 PM
Aftermarket for these Roxors is gonna be yuuuuuge. 3" lift, some slightly bigger tires, and lockers? Shiiiiiit. The perfect mini-Wrangler.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. I wonder how much of the existing Jeep CJ aftermarket is directly transferable.
These things are showing up for sale in my town. Word on the street is that you can add turn signals and get the title fixed so it's street legal for under $1000.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 07, 2019, 05:26:40 PM
These things are showing up for sale in my town. Word on the street is that you can add turn signals and get the title fixed so it's street legal for under $1000.
I don't see why not. People have built utter crap and got it titled. There's a Meyers Manx-like VW fiberglass shitbox thingy that bombs around here in the summertime. It would explode if it hit a raccoon or something.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 07, 2019, 05:26:40 PM
These things are showing up for sale in my town. Word on the street is that you can add turn signals and get the title fixed so it's street legal for under $1000.
Where at? They're for sale here at the local Arctic Cat/Husqvarna/etc motosports dealership. Nowhere else so far. Haven't seen any out in the woods yet, but they just got them like middle of last summer.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 07, 2019, 08:43:23 PM
Where at? They're for sale here at the local Arctic Cat/Husqvarna/etc motosports dealership. Nowhere else so far. Haven't seen any out in the woods yet, but they just got them like middle of last summer.
Some random ATV store. I can't remember.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 07, 2019, 08:31:41 PM
I don't see why not. People have built utter crap and got it titled. There's a Meyers Manx-like VW fiberglass shitbox thingy that bombs around here in the summertime. It would explode if it hit a raccoon or something.
Those VW kits are registered as classic VWs, which similarly would not hold up in anything worse than a fender bender.
Quote from: MX793 on January 08, 2019, 04:51:37 AM
Those VW kits are registered as classic VWs, which similarly would not hold up in anything worse than a fender bender.
Yeah, but these Roxx0rs are new. I don't know the details, but I wonder if they can be register as home-built kits because the owner installed turn signals and wiper blades.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 08, 2019, 07:26:07 AM
Yeah, but these Roxx0rs are new. I don't know the details, but I wonder if they can be register as home-built kits because the owner installed turn signals and wiper blades.
In Michigan they become "assembled vehicles."
Steal a VIN plate off an old Jeep and call it good.