https://insideevs.com/rivian-r1t-electric-pickup-truck-world-debut/
Impressive towing, wonder how much that kills the range. Seems to be copying Tesla wackiness...
It's impressive, but they really need to bring a version in work truck trim. Keep the towing and payload specs, but a W/T doesn't need to go 0-60 in 3 seconds. Limit it to 6 seconds 0-60, which should preserve range. Also, offer a 2 door cab in the W/T model. If they do, and fleet price it in the 35k range, they could sell these by the hundreds of thousands. Until the Big 3 bring out theirs, of course.
The design is cool. I love the extra stowage compartment behind the rear seats underneath and forward of the flatbed.
Stupid question, but does the horsepower output on electric drivetrains affect power consumption? Is a 600-hp electric car "thirstier" than a 150-hp electric car say under acceleration and constant speed cruising?
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 27, 2018, 04:51:01 AM
The design is cool. I love the extra stowage compartment behind the rear seats underneath and forward of the flatbed.
Stupid question, but does the horsepower output on electric drivetrains affect power consumption? Is a 600-hp electric car "thirstier" than a 150-hp electric car say under acceleration and constant speed cruising?
Under acceleration, yes. A horspower is after all 746 Watts, and batteries are rated in watt-hours.
At constant speed, less so, although keeping the inverters in the most efficient range for their output is likely a bigger factor than the motor size.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 27, 2018, 04:51:01 AM
Stupid question, but does the horsepower output on electric drivetrains affect power consumption? Is a 600-hp electric car "thirstier" than a 150-hp electric car say under acceleration and constant speed cruising?
It does, but nowhere near as much. The jump in fuel economy vs power is probably like 1/2 for electric as it is for gas. On the power generation side there are a lot less losses in an electric motor vs a gas engine- especially a powerful one- but the biggie is probably regenerative braking.
The reason a 600 HP electric car would be thirstier than a 150 HP one on a cruise would be the fact that the 600HP car would probably be bigger + heavier + have wider, higher rolling resistance tires.
It just occurred to me how useful the frunk will be on electric pick-ups.
(https://i.imgur.com/rpU4Jzg.jpg)
The question is, how much? They need a Model T of electric vehicles with a good distance rate and functionally/basic features to get the ball really rolling. The Volt was a good start, but what happened?
I've never heard of this company. But it is impressive and intriguing. I see they're going for the Tezla sales model of $1,000 deposits with a projected pontential delivery date...we've seen what a shitshow that was (is?) for Tezla, so it'd be interesting to see how this company copes and how prepared they are.
Any idea how many reservations they have? Or where their factory is or how they're coming along with getting production ready? I've never heard of them, so I'm at least slightly skeptical.
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 27, 2018, 11:17:39 AM
The question is, how much? They need a Model T of electric vehicles with a good distance rate and functionally/basic features to get the ball really rolling. The Volt was a good start, but what happened?
It starts at $61.5k if you take into account gov't. rebate. So it's basically a $70k truck for the base model... :mask:
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 27, 2018, 11:18:41 AM
I see they're going for the Tezla sales model of $1,000 deposits with a projected pontential delivery date...we've seen what a shitshow that was (is?) for Tezla, so it'd be interesting to see how this company copes and how prepared they are.
It was kind of a media shit show, but as I've said before, it seems like most of their customer expected delays and didn't really care much. That's 100% true for the few Model 3 owners I know, anyway.
Hard to tell if customers will be as forgiving towards this company though. On one hand, it's also a new company, so I think people should expect delays, but I'd also be less trusting of them in general since they don't have prior models (S and X) to give customers faith that it will end up as a fairly good finished product (inb4 bitching about panel gaps, etc. - yes I know Model 3s aren't perfect).
This company will also have more competitors than Tesla did as it was establishing itself.
It's interesting that they call it a skateboard platform as that is the same term Chevy used for the Volt platform. The overall shape of the truck is fairly nice but I'm not crazy about the front or rear. They aren't offensive but I don't love them. They have a lot of nice storage touches. I hope they are able to keep all of the various doors from rattling. I hope they are able to get to production.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 27, 2018, 11:18:41 AM
I see they're going for the Tezla sales model of $1,000 deposits with a projected pontential delivery date...we've seen what a shitshow that was (is?) for Tezla.
Audi is also doing that for the e-tron. €2.000 reservation fee. Tesla brought some ideas to the table it seems.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 27, 2018, 11:20:16 AM
It starts at $61.5k if you take into account gov't. rebate. So it's basically a $70k truck for the base model... :mask:
I would think that it would be smart to start with delivery vans in varying sizes and go for maximum distance per charge. Something very basic and functional with state of art electrics.
Aside from the front fascia looking like an emoji, I like it.
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 27, 2018, 11:33:54 AM
I would think that it would be smart to start with delivery vans in varying sizes and go for maximum distance per charge. Something very basic and functional with state of art electrics.
People pay a lot of money for 4 door trucks. They will have to get their production costs down before they can sell delivery vans. Nobody will pay $60k for a delivery van. It's the same reason Tesla still can't sell a $35k Model 3.
What are the Arrival parcel van trucks from the UK costing? They have been ordered by the Royal Mail, UPS and others, but I can not find a price.
Why the hell do they still have an enormous hood and grille? It's not like it has a TRITON V10 under there. It's a goddamn electric car, do something clever instead of just making yet another limp dick enhancer
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 27, 2018, 11:20:16 AM
It starts at $61.5k if you take into account gov't. rebate. So it's basically a $70k truck for the base model... :mask:
That's for the loaded upscale model they plan to build first. The budget models will come later. Jeez man, didja even read it?
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 27, 2018, 11:07:10 AM
It just occurred to me how useful the frunk will be on electric pick-ups.
(https://i.imgur.com/rpU4Jzg.jpg)
That's a backbreaking liftover height though. Too bad they couldn't have the front grille section lift up as well, but that would probably kill front end crashworthiness.
Quote from: Laconian on November 27, 2018, 12:48:37 PM
Why the hell do they still have an enormous hood and grille? It's not like it has a TRITON V10 under there. It's a goddamn electric car, do something clever instead of just making yet another limp dick enhancer
Styling, crashworthiness, ride.
Quote from: Rockraven on November 27, 2018, 12:49:04 PM
That's for the loaded upscale model they plan to build first. The budget models will come later. Jeez man, didja even read it?
Clearly I did...just missed that deet. Sry mang.
A frunk in a truck would be AWESOME. That fixes one of the big drawbacks to pickups.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 27, 2018, 01:19:24 PM
A frunk in a truck would be AWESOME. That fixes one of the big drawbacks to pickups.
Agreed. Frees up interior space. Can put all your gear and junk in the bed and your more sensitive luggage in the frunk. Excellent for a road trip if you need back seat space for more passengers, a dog, etc.
Quote from: Galaxy on November 27, 2018, 11:44:26 AM
What are the Arrival parcel van trucks from the UK costing? They have been ordered by the Royal Mail, UPS and others, but I can not find a price.
I don't see a price either.
Arrival (https://arrival.com/) seems like a rather interesting company though.
I didn't realize that UPS was so invested in alternative/clean technologies.
Quote from: Rockraven on November 27, 2018, 12:49:04 PM
That's for the loaded upscale model they plan to build first. The budget models will come later. Jeez man, didja even read it?
I'm reading this...
Pricing starts at $61,500 after Federal Tax credit. Deliveries of the R1T begin in late 2020. Fully-equipped vehicles with the highest performance level and largest battery pack will enter production first. Our 180 kWh pack (400+ miles range) and 135 kWh pack will be available at launch, with the base variant (230+ miles range) to follow within 12 months of the start of production.It's not clear if the price stated is for the high level or basic model...unless there's something else mentioned elsewhere.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 27, 2018, 01:06:45 PM
Styling, crashworthiness, ride.
Ride? Oh, you must mean as it pertains to limp dick enhancement.
ermergerrrd gimme a giant box but dont even think about saying the word wagon
Quote from: 2o6 on November 27, 2018, 01:06:45 PM
crashworthiness
Yes, trucks are great at annihilating smaller cars and pedestrians, don't want to interfere with that.
Pay $70K for a vehicle and throw a load of rocks in the back?
One of the traditional aspects of pickup ownership was low initial cost.
Now I can see one of those 4 door, suburbanite owned, leather seat status symbols being an EV, but working vehicles need to be more cost effective.
Quote from: Laconian on November 27, 2018, 02:01:19 PM
Yes, trucks are great at annihilating smaller cars and pedestrians, don't want to interfere with that.
What would you rather it look like? A forward control van?
Also, the hood looks short? It's about as long as the wheels itself and there's not a hell of a lot of overhang
An all electric, quad motor vehicle is the perfect opportunity to ditch traditional 2 & 3 box designs. Make it literally a giant penis with wheels. Put the driver in the center of mass. Wrap it in bubbles.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 27, 2018, 02:19:32 PM
An all electric, quad motor vehicle is the perfect opportunity to ditch traditional 2 & 3 box designs. Make it a literally a giant penis with wheels. Put the driver in the center of mass. Wrap it in bubbles
Shoots gunky white stuff when you honk the horn.
I can't picture a one box design being more useful in any tangible way. How would you access the front trunk better?
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 27, 2018, 02:20:12 PM
Shoots gunky white stuff when you honk the horn.
As a precaution, to cushion a potential impact. Brilliant.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 27, 2018, 02:21:44 PM
I can't picture a one box design being more useful in any tangible way. How would you access the front trunk better?
Like a double decker bus, but more phallic.
Penis jokes aside, the shape is ideal not only because of being streamlined, but also due to its ability to fit into tight spaces. And then there is deflection of impacts from the rounded, glossy surface.
Quote from: Laconian on November 27, 2018, 12:48:37 PM
Why the hell do they still have an enormous hood and grille? It's not like it has a TRITON V10 under there. It's a goddamn electric car, do something clever instead of just making yet another limp dick enhancer
Frunk!
And I think a lot of truck buyers are into that look. Trucks had giant engines 20 years ago, but didn't have as obnoxiously huge front ends.
I'd be interested to see it next to some other current pick-ups. Still looks like a shorter hood than current full-size pickups, but size-wise it might compete more with mid-sizers.
Quote from: shp4man on November 27, 2018, 02:05:24 PM
Now I can see one of those 4 door, suburbanite owned, leather seat status symbols being an EV, but working vehicles need to be more cost effective.
Which is why they're building 4 door, leather seat versions first. :huh: That's a huge portion of the truck market these days, and $70k isn't all that crazy for a luxury truck. An F-150 4x4 Limited is $72k, though who knows how well they compare amenity-wise. Plus this vehicle looks a little smaller, so comparing to an F-150 might be a poor comparison.
Woah. Now they are showing a 3 row SUV on the same platform.
I really, really like that. It's just renders right now. If they can actually execute on this, I think they'll do really well. Like any new automotive OEM though, can they get enough cash to survive the massive capex required to get moving, and can they actually build a car?
I hope they make it.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 27, 2018, 02:19:32 PM
An all electric, quad motor vehicle is the perfect opportunity to ditch traditional 2 & 3 box designs. Make it literally a giant penis with wheels. Put the driver in the center of mass. Wrap it in bubbles.
Sort of like this?
(https://i.postimg.cc/2yskJ9nQ/wienermobile-4.jpg)
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 27, 2018, 02:45:19 PM
Sort of like this?
(https://i.postimg.cc/2yskJ9nQ/wienermobile-4.jpg)
Sort of? Or exactly.
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 27, 2018, 02:45:19 PM
Sort of like this?
(https://i.postimg.cc/2yskJ9nQ/wienermobile-4.jpg)
I was thinking more along the lines of the Ambiguously Gay Duo
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/49dcdb3ff5e68abe6911242a6fba5657/tenor.gif?itemid=7746730)
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 27, 2018, 02:45:19 PM
Sort of like this?
(https://i.postimg.cc/2yskJ9nQ/wienermobile-4.jpg)
You know you can't buy a retired weenermobile? Even though they replace them steadily, they destroy the old ones rather than sell them or just having them towed away
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 27, 2018, 02:28:50 PM
And I think a lot of truck buyers are into that look.
Yeah, a lot of guys buy trucks as
Quotelimp dick enhancer
Maybe- Oh just hear me out- just maybe; somebody can like trucks or sports cars or anything else percieved as manly and still have completely normal and fully functional genitalia?
What's so wrong with a traditional truck look...? :huh:
This is a Compensation Station:
(https://pictures.dealer.com/k/krietzautosales/0734/ee3a796cda90300524eecc824cb93b33x.jpg?impolicy=resize&w=650)
A normal-looking (ie, stock) truck isn't. I mean...it's not like a Tezla doesn't look essentially like any other car...? Why does an EV truck have to suddenly diverge from the norm?
Quote from: Laconian on November 27, 2018, 03:11:24 PM
Yeah, a lot of guys buy trucks as
Which is completely irrelevant. Do you really expect manufacturers to intentionally make vehicles that won't appeal to their target market?
I really don't understand car enthusiasts' obsession with trucks and dick jokes.
LOL.. :lol:
Ur peepee is too small!
Though, to be fair to Kevin, someone driving a truck in Seattle is much more likely to own it as a status symbol than someone in CO or DA YOOPEE.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 27, 2018, 03:23:35 PM
What's so wrong with a traditional truck look...? :huh:
This is a Compensation Station:
(https://pictures.dealer.com/k/krietzautosales/0734/ee3a796cda90300524eecc824cb93b33x.jpg?impolicy=resize&w=650)
A normal-looking (ie, stock) truck isn't. I mean...it's not like a Tezla doesn't look essentially like any other car...? Why does an EV truck have to suddenly diverge from the norm?
My wife would love something like that.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 27, 2018, 03:22:16 PM
Maybe- Oh just hear me out- just maybe; somebody can like trucks or sports cars or anything else percieved as manly and still have completely normal and fully functional genitalia?
Bullshit
This is a shitty cure for limp dick syndrome:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e16/tmerr31/SAM_0435_zpsjtcddnih.jpg)
This works better. But it is blue. :lol:
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2018/03/AP_120302046624/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691928)
Don't laugh! You'll be there someday, too.
Edit: It looks like Photosucket works again... :wtf:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 27, 2018, 05:15:03 AM
Under acceleration, yes. A horspower is after all 746 Watts, and batteries are rated in watt-hours.
At constant speed, less so, although keeping the inverters in the most efficient range for their output is likely a bigger factor than the motor size.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 27, 2018, 05:54:46 AM
It does, but nowhere near as much. The jump in fuel economy vs power is probably like 1/2 for electric as it is for gas. On the power generation side there are a lot less losses in an electric motor vs a gas engine- especially a powerful one- but the biggie is probably regenerative braking.
The reason a 600 HP electric car would be thirstier than a 150 HP one on a cruise would be the fact that the 600HP car would probably be bigger + heavier + have wider, higher rolling resistance tires.
Simply and well-explained. Thanks! :cheers:
It doesn't look like it, but the Jag I-Pace is actually a fairly small car with a short nose. It's more aerodynamic, it doesn't atomize pedestrians on impact, and the length is spent where it counts: on the passengers instead of a "frunk".
Simply aping ICE form factors because penis is a waste of the weird and interesting potential of electric drivetrains.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 27, 2018, 03:43:54 PM
Bullshit
If a guy had a micropenis, would he buy a vehicle that causes everyone to make dick size jokes?
Quote from: 2o6 on November 27, 2018, 03:37:20 PM
Ur peepee is too small!
You promised you wouldn't say anything!!!!
I'm being too critical of this truck, I admit it. It's nowhere near the worst offender.
It is a shame that the truck segment is so conservative and plays so hard on insecurity though. There's nothing like the 80's/early 90's Ranger or the Mazda B-series anymore.
Quote from: shp4man on November 27, 2018, 03:44:39 PM
This is a shitty cure for limp dick syndrome:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e16/tmerr31/SAM_0435_zpsjtcddnih.jpg)
You should've got a Ford. A wimpy 6 just can't hold a candle to an explosive 8. :ohyeah:
Quote from: Laconian on November 27, 2018, 04:09:27 PM
It doesn't look like it, but the Jag I-Pace is actually a fairly small car with a short nose. It's more aerodynamic, it doesn't atomize pedestrians on impact, and the length is spent where it counts: on the passengers instead of a "frunk".
Simply aping ICE form factors because penis is a waste of the weird and interesting potential of electric drivetrains.
Right, but the I Pace already has secure cargo space in the normal trunk area. Truck beds do not without installing covers and/or toolboxes, which compromise the utility of the bed itself. It's a legitimately useful feature, not just a fun-to-say word (though that is also true).
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 27, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
You should've got a Ford. A wimpy 6 just can't hold a candle to an explosive 8. :ohyeah:
I give you...The Ford 300 CID truck 6-banger! ;)
(http://classicvehicleslist.com/pics/bigpics/1965-green-ford-truck-300-6-cylinder-4-speed-wood-flat-bed-8.JPG)
Quote from: shp4man on November 27, 2018, 04:24:27 PM
I give you...The Ford 300 CID truck 6-banger! ;)
(http://classicvehicleslist.com/pics/bigpics/1965-green-ford-truck-300-6-cylinder-4-speed-wood-flat-bed-8.JPG)
Well, bigger is always better then.
Quote from: Laconian on November 27, 2018, 04:13:21 PM
I'm being too critical of this truck, I admit it. It's nowhere near the worst offender.
It is a shame that the truck segment is so conservative and plays so hard on insecurity though. There's nothing like the 80's/early 90's Ranger or the Mazda B-series anymore.
Yeah, this is a pretty subtle design for a modern truck.
(https://d2t6ms4cjod3h9.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/a._rivian_r1t_front_view_copy-e1543249967409.jpg)
vs.
(https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/images/power-wagon/gallery/Expanded/Expanded_Row4a_1043x676.jpg)
It's much more akin to something like a Ridgeline, styling-wise, than it is a Compensation Station. :huh:
Quote from: Laconian on November 27, 2018, 02:01:19 PM
Yes, trucks are great at annihilating smaller cars and pedestrians, don't want to interfere with that.
perhaps drivers will be more careful if they have valuables in the frunk
Quote from: Laconian on November 27, 2018, 12:48:37 PM
Why the hell do they still have an enormous hood and grille? It's not like it has a TRITON V10 under there. It's a goddamn electric car, do something clever instead of just making yet another limp dick enhancer
Because big grilles are Built Ford Tough
(R) like truck nutz and decals of strippers with their fake tits cascading over the confederate flag plastered in the back window.
I don't know what it is, but everything the CEO of this company says makes him sound like a professional huckster. I'll believe this truck when I see it...but my spider senses tell me this is somewhere between vaporware and invent n' run scheme.
Quote from: Submariner on November 27, 2018, 09:29:47 PM
I don't know what it is, but everything the CEO of this company says makes him sound like a professional huckster. I'll believe this truck when I see it...but my spider senses tell me this is somewhere between vaporware and invent n' run scheme.
I remain skeptical as well, but we shall see.
Quote from: Submariner on November 27, 2018, 09:29:47 PM
I don't know what it is, but everything the CEO of this company says makes him sound like a professional huckster. I'll believe this truck when I see it...but my spider senses tell me this is somewhere between vaporware and invent n' run scheme.
Spidey :facepalm:
Quote from: Submariner on November 27, 2018, 09:24:57 PM
Because big grilles are Built Ford Tough (R) like truck nutz and decals of strippers with their fake tits cascading over the confederate flag plastered in the back window.
I feel like some of y'all are so insecure that owning a truck would just make you 6x more insecure.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 28, 2018, 06:57:36 AM
I feel like some of y'all are so insecure that owning a truck would just make you 6x more insecure.
I am so secure
:wub:
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Q61fpYkQYmkanRF6Dl63tyBYKc4=/0x0:2040x1530/1200x800/filters:focal(857x602:1183x928)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/62413606/A._Rivian_R1S_Front.0.jpg)
(https://www.thetorquereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Rivian-R1S-00010.jpg)
Why does it have a front end, though? Anybody who wants that has a tiny peniz.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 28, 2018, 12:32:56 PM
Why does it have a front end, though? Anybody who wants that has a tiny peniz.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/c50f6aa21dfe93f447f9e32e2d35a86e/tenor.gif)
^ I have to ask, where is that gif from?
Too bad it looks like a bob-omb from the front
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/mario/images/8/8c/Bob-omb%2C_New_Super_Mario_Bros._U.png/revision/latest?cb=20121119023919)
Quote from: Galaxy on November 28, 2018, 01:27:22 PM
^ I have to ask, where is that gif from?
The actor is Sinbad...he was (is?) a famous comedian.
The scene is from a TV show called "A Different World" which was itself a spin off from "The Cosby Show."
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/12KKxc48IPgFBS/200.gif)
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 28, 2018, 02:26:19 PM
The actor is Sinbad...he was (is?) a famous comedian.
The scene is from a TV show called "A Different World" which was itself a spin off from "The Cosby Show."
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/12KKxc48IPgFBS/200.gif)
What I remember Sinbad from:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/FirstKidfilm.jpg)
Thanks.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 28, 2018, 02:31:07 PM
What I remember Sinbad from:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/FirstKidfilm.jpg)
Same.
And honestly I thought that gif was Neil The Grass Tyson. :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 28, 2018, 02:53:16 PM
And honestly I thought that gif was Neil The Grass Tyson. :lol:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/bv5lfrfctxlK0/giphy.gif)
Jesus. :facepalm: :lol:
Quote from: 2o6 on November 28, 2018, 01:36:26 PM
Too bad it looks like a bob-omb from the front
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/mario/images/8/8c/Bob-omb%2C_New_Super_Mario_Bros._U.png/revision/latest?cb=20121119023919)
:lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 28, 2018, 12:32:56 PM
Why does it have a front end, though? Anybody who wants that has a tiny peniz.
Because it would look silly with 2 back ends.
Quote from: RomanChariot on November 28, 2018, 04:54:05 PM
Because it would look silly with 2 back ends.
Or that could be genius. It would be like a choo choo train. You can drive it in any direction. Pull forward into a spot, then pull forward out. No worries about backing your trailer up, just spin your seat around and push the trailer. Twice as many pickup beds. One can have a cap for doges.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 28, 2018, 12:32:56 PM
Why does it have a front end, though? Anybody who wants that has a tiny peniz.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 28, 2018, 01:17:55 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/c50f6aa21dfe93f447f9e32e2d35a86e/tenor.gif)
Quote from: Galaxy on November 28, 2018, 01:27:22 PM
^ I have to ask, where is that gif from?
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 28, 2018, 02:26:19 PM
The actor is Sinbad...he was (is?) a famous comedian.
The scene is from a TV show called "A Different World" which was itself a spin off from "The Cosby Show."
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/12KKxc48IPgFBS/200.gif)
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 28, 2018, 02:53:16 PM
... honestly I thought that gif was Neil The Grass Tyson. :lol:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 28, 2018, 02:56:33 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/bv5lfrfctxlK0/giphy.gif)
:clap: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: Submariner on November 27, 2018, 09:29:47 PM
I don't know what it is, but everything the CEO of this company says makes him sound like a professional huckster. I'll believe this truck when I see it...but my spider senses tell me this is somewhere between vaporware and invent n' run scheme.
Faraday Failure has people's hackles justifiably up
One weird thing about this and other EVs is the insane acceleration times. Do we need a pickup truck that can go to 100 in 7 seconds? I guess with the batteries being the big cost item, and additional HP being so incrementally cheap in an EV vs a gas car it's easy and cheap headline fodder. But it also seems like a waste.
It's also quite frightening considering how the average pickup driver drives around here
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 29, 2018, 08:34:00 AM
Faraday Failure has people's hackles justifiably up
One weird thing about this and other EVs is the insane acceleration times. Do we need a pickup truck that can go to 100 in 7 seconds? I guess with the batteries being the big cost item, and additional HP being so incrementally cheap in an EV vs a gas car it's easy and cheap headline fodder. But it also seems like a waste.
It's also quite frightening considering how the average pickup driver drives around here
For real. The vast majority of the driving public has zero place behind the wheel of a rocket.
0-60 times are just like cores on your average run of the mill dell. No one needs 32 threads and 64 gb to watch Ellen videos on YouTube, but bigger numbers always sell and gives people a reason to buy something new. I can't blame automakers for trying...
Trucks tow/haul heavy things. This requires more power. :nutty:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 29, 2018, 08:34:00 AM
It's also quite frightening considering how the average pickup driver drives around here
Says the guy who used to brag about driving like an asshat on the street.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 29, 2018, 08:34:00 AM
Faraday Failure has people's hackles justifiably up
One weird thing about this and other EVs is the insane acceleration times. Do we need a pickup truck that can go to 100 in 7 seconds? I guess with the batteries being the big cost item, and additional HP being so incrementally cheap in an EV vs a gas car it's easy and cheap headline fodder. But it also seems like a waste.
It's also quite frightening considering how the average pickup driver drives around here
It probably "needs" the torque for towing (not really, but recreational towers are a bunch of pussies), but the nature of AC electric motors is such that that also leads to stupid acceleration times.
This vehicle would handle way different than a regular pickup. An electric motor on each wheel and a way more balanced front to rear weight ratio unloaded. Plus probably a bunch of electronic shit to compensate for different loads. IT"S THE FUTUUUUUURE!!!
:lol:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 29, 2018, 09:17:43 AM
It probably "needs" the torque for towing (not really, but recreational towers are a bunch of pussies), but the nature of AC electric motors is such that that also leads to stupid acceleration times.
Everybody's fine with a Tesla rocketing around, but as soon as it's a truck it's not acceptable...?
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 29, 2018, 09:23:01 AM
Everybody's fine with a Tesla rocketing around, but as soon as it's a truck it's not acceptable...?
Actually, a lot of "normal" cars are stupid fast now and the only reason people are OK with it is they are increasingly dependant on traction and stability control.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 29, 2018, 09:23:01 AM
Everybody's fine with a Tesla rocketing around, but as soon as it's a truck it's not acceptable...?
And when did a bunch of car enthusiasts start thinking that excessive power is a bad thing? :confused: :lol:
Even if the nature of electric motors didn't make those acceleration numbers so easy, if you're gonna be a successful company, you've gotta bring something new and exciting to the table. We've already established that the tech isn't cheap enough yet to make this a viable work truck, so if you're gonna compete against the big name luxury pickups, speed seems like a pretty good way to make yourself stand out.
Quote from: Submariner on November 27, 2018, 09:29:47 PM
I don't know what it is, but everything the CEO of this company says makes him sound like a professional huckster. I'll believe this truck when I see it...but my spider senses tell me this is somewhere between vaporware and invent n' run scheme.
Their board is full of quite a few automotive big dogs. This is way more legitimate than Elio, Carbon Motors, or Faraday Future ever was. In fact, I'd say it looks a whole lot more legitimate than Tesla :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 29, 2018, 09:14:17 AM
Says the guy who used to brag about driving like an asshat on the street.
You OK sis?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 28, 2018, 05:01:23 PM
Or that could be genius. It would be like a choo choo train. You can drive it in any direction. Pull forward into a spot, then pull forward out. No worries about backing your trailer up, just spin your seat around and push the trailer. Twice as many pickup beds. One can have a cap for doges.
Don't you mean pull backwards into a spot and then pull backwards out of the spot. You're going to need backup cameras on both ends.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 29, 2018, 10:34:34 AM
You OK sis?
Yeah? Just find it odd/contradictory that EVs being lightning quick is suddenly a concern because it's in the shape of a truck.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 29, 2018, 10:47:28 AM
Yeah? Just find it odd/contradictory that EVs being lightning quick is suddenly a concern because it's in the shape of a truck.
Most EVs aren't this fast, and the ones that are are holistically designed for performance driving. A truck with a high center of gravity, truck tires and design concessions for towing/hauling is not. My driving history has nothing to do with that :huh:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 29, 2018, 09:17:43 AM
It probably "needs" the torque for towing (not really, but recreational towers are a bunch of pussies), but the nature of AC electric motors is such that that also leads to stupid acceleration times.
Yup!
And +1 about a lot of normal cars being stupid fast now too. Used to need quite the hot rod to go 0-60 in 5 seconds.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 29, 2018, 09:39:57 AM
Actually, a lot of "normal" cars are stupid fast now and the only reason people are OK with it is they are increasingly dependant on traction and stability control.
This is made increasingly obvious when you drive something like a 70 HP pickup from 1986. Even though it always accelerates to 5-10 over the speed limit in a reasonable amount of time, nobody in a modern car can stand to be "stuck" behind something the isn't going 0-60 in six seconds. But then nobody can seem to keep up on a highway on/off ramp that has a curve to it.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 29, 2018, 04:53:50 PM
This is made increasingly obvious when you drive something like a 70 HP pickup from 1986. Even though it always accelerates to 5-10 over the speed limit in a reasonable amount of time, nobody in a modern car can stand to be "stuck" behind something the isn't going 0-60 in six seconds. But then nobody can seem to keep up on a highway on/off ramp that has a curve to it.
"I can only go fast if the road is straight" drivers drive me nuts.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 29, 2018, 12:51:00 PM
Most EVs aren't this fast, and the ones that are are holistically designed for performance driving. A truck with a high center of gravity, truck tires and design concessions for towing/hauling is not. My driving history has nothing to do with that :huh:
High center of gravity? You've seen the chassis of this thing, right? And how the weight of the batteries is pretty low (virtually at/near axle center level)? You do understand that to tow 11,000 pounds, you need power? Ergo, unladen, it will be quick...?
(https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2018/06/Rivian-chassis.jpg)
They should make the body swappable; that is, when you buy the platform/drive assembly, you get one pick-up body and one SUV body with a mechanism that allows you to detach one body and attach the other.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 29, 2018, 05:30:19 PM
High center of gravity? You've seen the chassis of this thing, right? And how the weight of the batteries is pretty low (virtually at/near axle center level)? You do understand that to tow 11,000 pounds, you need power? Ergo, unladen, it will be quick...?
(https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2018/06/Rivian-chassis.jpg)
IT still has a higher CoG than an EV car
And plenty of trucks can tow 5.5 tons without being able to accelerate to 100 in 7 seconds
Just seems stupid to me... no need to get bent out of shape over an opinion
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 29, 2018, 07:24:47 PM
IT still has a higher CoG than an EV car
And plenty of trucks can tow 5.5 tons without being able to accelerate to 100 in 7 seconds
Just seems stupid to me... no need to get bent out of shape over an opinion
EVs deliver their power entirely differently than an ICE. :nutty:
What truck doesn't have a higher CoG than a car...?
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 29, 2018, 06:05:38 PM
They should make the body swappable; that is, when you buy the platform/drive assembly, you get one pick-up body and one SUV body with a mechanism that allows you to detach one body and attach the other.
Kinda like the Hy-wire concept.
Quote from: heelntoe on November 29, 2018, 09:38:53 PM
Kinda like the Hy-wire concept.
Does that include a quick-change, universal battery pack that can be stocked at battery stations?
I'm not sure, but I think the Hy-wire was a Hydrogen fuel-cell concept car. I've seen some electric scooters in India that had quick-chance batteries though. Those were pretty nifty.
The GM Autonomy?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 29, 2018, 09:41:23 PM
Does that include a quick-change, universal battery pack that can be stocked at battery stations?
I've always thought that was a good idea, but just realized that the amount of storage space needed at each station would be massive.
Yes please.
https://youtu.be/QMfxJEfb4lw
400 mile range, I'm sold. That's farther than Taco will go on a full tank (250/300 cty/hwy :lol:).
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 29, 2018, 07:47:46 PM
EVs deliver their power entirely differently than an ICE. :nutty:
What truck doesn't have a higher CoG than a car...?
100% of torque available from rest.
a.) that front end is dreadful
b.) still skeptical that this is a production ready vehicle.
Quote from: Submariner on January 12, 2019, 09:55:48 AM
a.) that front end is dreadful
b.) still skeptical that this is a production ready vehicle.
a) agree
b) like everything else, probably "for sale in 2 years!"
They're taking pre-order deposits, and their pre-order page currently says "Production will begin in 2020."
(Not personally voicing an opinion either way - just providing that info.)
Quote from: Morris Minor on January 12, 2019, 09:00:04 AM
Yes please.
https://youtu.be/QMfxJEfb4lw
Just actually watched this. If it's anywhere near as good as they say, this ought to be a great vehicle. I'm not gonna sign up to be their guinea pig, but if they're still around in 10-20 years, I could see myself going for something like this (finances permitting).
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 12, 2019, 01:46:18 PM
Just actually watched this. If it's anywhere near as good as they say, this ought to be a great vehicle. I'm not gonna sign up to be their guinea pig, but if they're still around in 10-20 years, I could see myself going for something like this (finances permitting).
If you're into renewables & EV crunchiness, that's a really good channel.
Not so much if you're a gasoline & sparkplugs sort of person.
This company is interesting. They've existed for 9 years now. They're much closer to production than something like the Tesla Model Y or pickup.
As for the front-end styling. It jarred at first. but it's grown on me. Same with the Model 3.
I'm guessing the Feds will be under pressure to change the regs for things like headlights as lighting technologies change. e.g. do we really need two headlights?
Quote from: MrH on January 12, 2019, 08:51:33 PM
This company is interesting. They've existed for 9 years now. They're much closer to production than something like the Tesla Model Y or pickup.
Tesla has four models. Rivian has a supposed production date for one.
Quote from: MrH on January 12, 2019, 08:51:33 PM
This company is interesting. They’ve existed for 9 years now. They’re much closer to production than something like the Tesla Model Y or pickup.
I doubt it. Elio has existed for 11.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 13, 2019, 08:11:38 AM
I doubt it. Elio has existed for 11.
Ah yes. Elio. Initial production date? 2012.
Quote from: Morris Minor on January 12, 2019, 09:00:04 AM
Yes please.
https://youtu.be/QMfxJEfb4lw
At least that guy seems normal (did some research - he was a lead at McLaren for its road cars - so he's legit).
IFS and IRS. One motor per wheel. 400 mile range. Even the ginormous charge status bar on the front is nifty. This is an EV I could get behind.
$60k - $70k is tough to imagine though. Perhaps that is what will happen eventually? EVs are actually cheaper to manufacture than ICE-based vehicles?
Quote from: Submariner on January 13, 2019, 09:59:03 AM
Ah yes. Elio. Initial production date? 2012.
I remember the prototype in 2008, to be on sale "in 2 years".
Quote from: GoCougs on January 13, 2019, 02:10:57 PM
$60k - $70k is tough to imagine though. Perhaps that is what will happen eventually? EVs are actually cheaper to manufacture than ICE-based vehicles?
That price is for the 250 mile version. I don't think they've said anything about how much the bigger battery will cost.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 13, 2019, 02:31:02 PM
I remember the prototype in 2008, to be on sale "in 2 years".
They must be having finding/production issues. I can't imagine that there is anything revolutionary about the mechanicals. Or maybe they're having trouble hitting the price/MPG targets.
Quote from: Submariner on January 13, 2019, 02:40:31 PM
They must be having finding/production issues. I can't imagine that there is anything revolutionary about the mechanicals. Or maybe they're having trouble hitting the price/MPG targets.
I've been checking in on them over the years. So much hilarity...
- They managed to obtain over 60,000 deposits, worth over $72 million.
- They abandoned the Suzuki/GEO Metro 3 banger to develop their own engine with IAI, and quickly burned thru that 72 mil.
- They bought the old GM plant in Shreveport, thru a business dude that's now in prison.
- Caddish Parish in LA has brought numerous lawsuits against Elio.
- Everything for the past 4 years has depended on getting a federal loan of some $225 million.
- They even sold shares in an IPO, which are pretty much worthless.
- Their business plan submitted for federal funding indicates production of 60,000 Elios in the 1st year, and 200,000 in subsequent years.
- They entered into a crypto currency scheme with Overstock.com to try to raise money that way.
Had an argument with a deposit holder on Elio Owner's Forum (yeah, lol) a few years ago..
"Paul Elio is a successful businessman"
Me: "That doesn't mean he knows anything about the car industry"
"It's big business, there's no difference"
Me: "Really? Lebron James is a successful athlete. That doesn't mean he'll be successful in the Indy 500".
That's about where I got ganged up on by ever-optimistic Elio "owners". :lol:
Lol Elio. I had a FB friends who was a fan so I saw their stuff occasionally. Been very quiet for a year or more though...
Any reason why they dumped the engine?
Squeezing more power/efficiency out of a modern ICE is a job for massive multi-nationals with an army of engineers and 10 digit cash reserves. Did Elio think they could pull a Mazda...without the resources and time that Mazda has?
Quote from: Submariner on January 13, 2019, 08:01:31 AM
Tesla has four models. Rivian has a supposed production date for one.
Had. They currently produce 3.
This is way closer to production than the new Tesla Roadster, Model Y, and Pickup. That's a fact :huh:
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2019, 08:30:52 AM
Had. They currently produce 3.
This is way closer to production than the new Tesla Roadster, Model Y, and Pickup. That's a fact :huh:
I think the point is that it seems like you're giving Rivian a whole lot of credit for making their vehicle in the shape of a pickup. Tesla clearly could have produced a pickup by now if they had chosen to focus their efforts on one.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2019, 08:30:52 AM
Had. They currently produce 3.
This is way closer to production than the new Tesla Roadster, Model Y, and Pickup. That's a fact :huh:
Currently producing 3 products is a lot more credible though, even if their next model is a way's off.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2019, 08:30:52 AM
Had. They currently produce 3.
This is way closer to production than the new Tesla Roadster, Model Y, and Pickup. That's a fact :huh:
How do you know this fact?
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2019, 08:30:52 AM
Had. They currently produce 3.
This is way closer to production than the new Tesla Roadster, Model Y, and Pickup. That's a fact :huh:
They say that their truck is closer to production. When I see actual vehicles on the line, I'll believe it.
Even then, Tesla has actual vehicles on the line, and every day we're treated to a new horror story.
When they have reliable figures on deliveries actually made, then we can talk.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 14, 2019, 10:29:41 AM
How do you know this fact?
Rivian has a plant with capacity to build their vehicles. Tesla currently doesn't have a plant or capacity to build the Model Y or Roadster. If they plan to make them on Freemont, they need major CapEx. They currently have no major capex planned in their financial forecast. Their paint line is maxed out at 5k/vehicles per week. I guess they could discontinue a model or something, but the capacity has to come from somewhere.
Also, Rivian has a full interior.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2019, 10:53:46 AM
Rivian has a plant with capacity to build their vehicles. Tesla currently doesn't have a plant or capacity to build the Model Y or Roadster. If they plan to make them on Freemont, they need major CapEx. They currently have no major capex planned in their financial forecast. Their paint line is maxed out at 5k/vehicles per week. I guess they could discontinue a model or something, but the capacity has to come from somewhere.
Also, Rivian has a full interior.
Elio has a plant as well...
Quote from: Rockraven on January 14, 2019, 10:59:34 AM
Elio has a plant as well...
Elio was never this far along in terms of launching a vehicle.
Not saying this is 100% guaranteed to make it, but so far, it's way further ahead than a lot of other start ups and fantasy ideas.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 14, 2019, 10:59:34 AM
Elio has a plant as well...
A factory or a decorative fern?
Quote from: MX793 on January 17, 2019, 07:01:23 AM
A factory or a decorative fern?
They got some sort of government asssisted deal to lease the closed GM Shreveport truck plant. Far too big for their purposes, they can't afford to keep the lights on.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 17, 2019, 08:02:14 AM
They got some sort of government asssisted deal to lease the closed GM Shreveport truck plant. Far too big for their purposes, they can't afford to keep the lights on.
Then I hope they put the fern near a window. They don't do too well in the dark.
Man, somebody (not me) started a thread on my Chevy truck forum about this vehicle. Holy shit, let's just say they were less than enthusiastic. :muffin:
Quote from: shp4man on January 23, 2019, 05:19:42 PM
Man, somebody (not me) started a thread on my Chevy truck forum about this vehicle. Holy shit, let's just say they were less than enthusiastic. :muffin:
For good reasons, or just the usual knee-jerk tribal shit?
Quote from: Laconian link=topic=34877.msg2402407#msg2402407eb date=1548291218
For good reasons, or just the usual knee-jerk tribal shit?
There was some of the "that ain't no truck, dammit" stuff but some thought is was ugly, some thought the bed was too small, many thought it was too expensive. Some thought it was the future of pickups (a few). The 0 to 60 time threw them for a loop.
Sounds about normal for a forum :lol:
Rivian R1T pickup reportedly gets GM-Amazon investment (https://www.detroitnews.com/picture-gallery/business/autos/2019/02/13/rivian-pickup-gm-amazon-investment/2854273002/)
It looks like now the $700million is from Amazon and no GM connection. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26357290/rivian-amazon-investment/
I would be shitting myself if I were the CEO of the particular Big 3 company that just dropped cars and went all in on trucks
Quote from: r0tor on February 15, 2019, 12:39:32 PM
It looks like now the $700million is from Amazon and no GM connection. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26357290/rivian-amazon-investment/
I would be shitting myself if I were the CEO of the particular Big 3 company that just dropped cars and went all in on trucks
Ford has dropped the ball on tech in general - leaning on turbos, ignoring EVs and autonomous driving - but Ford knows that trucks buyers are the most loyal.
IF this makes it to production, it'll go like Tesla - some initial sales success but for the market at large, it won't mean much (it'll be too expensive and too untenable of a business venture).
I think they're smart to target SUVs and trucks though. Lots more money in that segment than others.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 15, 2019, 01:28:50 PM
Ford has dropped the ball on tech in general - leaning on turbos, ignoring EVs and autonomous driving - but Ford knows that trucks buyers are the most loyal.
IF this makes it to production, it'll go like Tesla - some initial sales success but for the market at large, it won't mean much (it'll be too expensive and too untenable of a business venture).
The truck market is already ridiculously overpriced. There will be little price disadvantage to electric.
Quote from: r0tor on February 15, 2019, 03:34:23 PM
The truck market is already ridiculously overpriced. There will be little price disadvantage to electric.
This, plus the sheer volume of fleet sales. It's appealing to large companies, visually and financially, to install charging facilities and run an electric truck fleet.
By definition, the truck market is not overpriced - lots of competitors - lots of alternatives (since most truck buyers don't use their trucks as trucks) - lots of volume. It's a very efficient segment (i.e., pricing is spot on).
But 180 kW-hr battery? 4 motors? Nah, that's a $100k vehicle. There are cheaper versions, but anything less than a base MSRP of $75k seems virtually impossible and that's were only the very highest-end current 1/2 tons top out.
Trucks prices are being protected by the chicken tax. A damn F150 can now hit $72k and an average 4x4 truck is in the $50s... all with a large profit margin
Fat prices and terrible fuel mileage combine for a prime electric takeover
Huh? Nissan Titan and Toyota Tundra have been on the market for 15+ years at equivalent prices. Plus don't forget the small/medium size truck market.
Lots of choices, lots of alternatives, yet, here we are. "Overpriced" is an impossibility.
A $75k-$100k electric truck is a non threat to that market.
People will buy them though.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 15, 2019, 09:07:14 PM
Huh? Nissan Titan and Toyota Tundra have been on the market for 15+ years at equivalent prices. Plus don't forget the small/medium size truck market.
Lots of choices, lots of alternatives, yet, here we are. "Overpriced" is an impossibility.
A $75k-$100k electric truck is a non threat to that market.
They are forced to be built in the US to avoid the chicken tax... Or have the chicken tax applied which increases the price. There are a hoard manufacturers that would enter the market if the tax didn't exist.
Quote from: r0tor on February 16, 2019, 09:17:16 AM
They are forced to be built in the US to avoid the chicken tax... Or have the chicken tax applied which increases the price. There are a hoard manufacturers that would enter the market if the tax didn't exist.
So who else builds full-size pickup trucks in the world? (No one.)
Even if they did, it'd go just about how it went with the Nissan Titan and Toyota Tundra - decent product but no notable sales volume.
If it's not a Chevy, Ford or Dodge/Ram, it's not gonna sell worth a damn, esp. if it's vastly more expensive.
Toyota Hilux?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 16, 2019, 10:52:29 AM
Toyota Hilux?
Is this a challenge to me?
The current Hilux is smaller than the Tacoma (i.e., nowhere near full size), plus no V8.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 16, 2019, 10:52:29 AM
Toyota Hilux?
Compact trucks, foreign or domestic, died in the US for a reason. I have no idea what that reason is, but it was pervasive enough to kill off the whole segment.
As for trucks being overpriced, lol. I do think the impending credit crunch will be a reckoning of biblical proportions for the industry. Profits will plummet either by sales volume, or more likely incentives at levels we've never seen. But in the medium term they'll be fine
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 16, 2019, 11:35:02 AM
Compact trucks, foreign or domestic, died in the US for a reason. I have no idea what that reason is, but it was pervasive enough to kill off the whole segment.
As for trucks being overpriced, lol. I do think the impending credit crunch will be a reckoning of biblical proportions for the industry. Profits will plummet either by sales volume, or more likely incentives at levels we've never seen. But in the medium term they'll be fine
This is a mystery to me too.
People have insane love for their old S-10s, Rangers and B2000s. Kids love them - they're ridiculously customizable. And they're a great proposition for people who just want a bit of practicality without having to have a chrome-laden Tonka Toy giant occupying all of their garage space.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 16, 2019, 10:38:40 AM
So who else builds full-size pickup trucks in the world? (No one.)
Even if they did, it'd go just about how it went with the Nissan Titan and Toyota Tundra - decent product but no notable sales volume.
If it's not a Chevy, Ford or Dodge/Ram, it's not gonna sell worth a damn, esp. if it's vastly more expensive.
Why not talk to a long list of compact trucks we don't get offered... Offerings from Mercedes, VW, Fiat, Renault, Mitsubishi, Toyota, ect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pickup_trucks
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 23, 2019, 06:17:42 AM
This is a mystery to me too.
People have insane love for their old S-10s, Rangers and B2000s. Kids love them - they're ridiculously customizable. And they're a great proposition for people who just want a bit of practicality without having to have a chrome-laden Tonka Toy giant occupying all of their garage space.
No mystery... When there are obstacles to competition, there is no real need for the big 3 to produce trucks that have smaller profit margins
I could count on one hand the number of full size pickups I saw on the streets of Quito while I was there. I'd need hundreds of hands to count all the Hiluxes, D Max's, et. al.
I thought the Chicken Tax was a pretty good explanation about why there's no competition in the small truck sector. We can't import small trucks without ridiculous tariffs,
Quote from: r0tor on February 23, 2019, 08:05:19 AM
Why not talk to a long list of compact trucks we don't get offered... Offerings from Mercedes, VW, Fiat, Renault, Mitsubishi, Toyota, ect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pickup_trucks
Why? Americans don't want small trucks, and have only a mediocre appetite for mid-size trucks. That's the market speaking, not taxes.
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 23, 2019, 06:17:42 AM
This is a mystery to me too.
People have insane love for their old S-10s, Rangers and B2000s. Kids love them - they're ridiculously customizable. And they're a great proposition for people who just want a bit of practicality without having to have a chrome-laden Tonka Toy giant occupying all of their garage space.
People love 'em, sure, for say $2000 - $5000, but paying say $25k - $30k for them new? Tough sell. The market would rather spend ~$5k more to get a lot more truck, or $10k to get like 3x more truck.
Also, a lot of those "compact" trucks aren't even small!
A real "compact" truck would be something like the coupe-utilities that they sell in Mexico et al. Basically a subcompact car with a bed.
Americas need trucks to pull their houses and live like nomadic tribes of outlaws in campers. A private residence is not a smart investment because of mortgage interest, property taxes, oppressive property use laws, and trashy neighbors with old and disgusting pickup trucks in their front yards. How far can a Riverinian electric truck pull a 5000# camper with fat dogs riding in the back? 23 miles.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 23, 2019, 11:24:01 AM
Why? Americans don't want small trucks, and have only a mediocre appetite for mid-size trucks. That's the market speaking, not taxes.
They want them, just not at the price the manufacturers can make them for in the US. Government interference messes up the import market, so.....
A cheap little truck that cost the same as a Civic would sell really well among small businesses, landscapers, etc. It wouldn't even have to be AWD/4WD.
They claimed that the little Ford Transit Connect van wouldn't sell in the USA, it's for tiny European streets, etc. but it obliterated the truck-based van competition.
Average Muricans who use quad cab trucks as ersatz luxury sedans obviously wouldn't bite.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 23, 2019, 11:38:13 AM
Also, a lot of those "compact" trucks aren't even small!
A real "compact" truck would be something like the coupe-utilities that they sell in Mexico et al. Basically a subcompact car with a bed.
For real. New mid-sizers look and feel as big as a full sizer from a couple generations ago.
Quote from: Laconian on February 23, 2019, 01:58:08 PM
A cheap little truck that cost the same as a Civic would sell really well among small businesses, landscapers, etc. It wouldn't even have to be AWD/4WD.
They claimed that the little Ford Transit Connect van wouldn't sell in the USA, it's for tiny European streets, etc. but it obliterated the truck-based van competition.
Average Muricans who use quad cab trucks as ersatz luxury sedans obviously wouldn't bite.
(https://www.vwcomerciales.com.mx/content/dam/vw-ngw/vw_nfz/importers/mx/showrooms/saveiro/saveiro-normal-robust/02-saveiro-Ext-RobustCabinaSimple-16x9-med-1018.jpg/_jcr_content/renditions/original.transform/max/img.jpg)
Like this
That's all most people need, really. :rockon:
Quote from: 2o6 on February 23, 2019, 03:59:18 PM
(https://www.vwcomerciales.com.mx/content/dam/vw-ngw/vw_nfz/importers/mx/showrooms/saveiro/saveiro-normal-robust/02-saveiro-Ext-RobustCabinaSimple-16x9-med-1018.jpg/_jcr_content/renditions/original.transform/max/img.jpg)
Like this
What is it?
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 23, 2019, 06:11:18 PM
What is it?
That is an autonomous crate of vegetables.
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 23, 2019, 06:11:18 PM
What is it?
A Volkswagen Saveiro, based on the super-cheap VW Gol (not Golf: Gol); made in Brazil. Remember the VW Fox, from the late '80s to early '90s? This is a pickup version of the Fox's successor 20 years down the line.
Quote from: 93JC on February 23, 2019, 07:05:12 PM
A Volkswagen Saveiro, based on the super-cheap VW Gol (not Golf: Gol); made in Brazil. Remember the VW Fox, from the late '80s to early '90s? This is a pickup version of the Fox's successor 20 years down the line.
I see. I looks nice and simple.
https://jalopnik.com/ford-is-pouring-500-million-into-rivian-1834269625
Good move on Fords part, I think?
Quote from: FoMoJo on April 24, 2019, 10:12:34 AM
Good move on Fords part, I think?
I wouldn't be surprised if they end up drawing out development a few years just to keep selling their current trucks.
Quote from: r0tor on April 24, 2019, 10:17:11 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if they end up drawing out development a few years just to keep selling their current trucks.
I would be. There's plenty of market space for both. The F-150 barely overlaps with the Rivian price wise, and there are still many truck owners who won't switch over to electric yet.
EDIT: Unless you were talking about the Ford-developed vehicle based on the Rivian platform, in which case maybe. As FoMoCo pointed out, there are tons of things they could do with the platform besides build an electric F-150.
Quote from: r0tor on April 24, 2019, 10:17:11 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if they end up drawing out development a few years just to keep selling their current trucks.
Judging by their Euro lineup, Ford wants to go electric in a big way. Having an electric 'skateboard' platform available gives them a head start.
I think it's a brilliant move. Ford has been seriously lagging in electric vehicle development, and partnering with Rivian they probably saved a billion in development costs, and they may have just leapfrogged the other conventional pickup builders. GM was actually courting Rivian, but they couldn't put a deal together.
Also, Rivian was facing the enormous problems of manufacturing facilities, supply chains, and dealer networks.
Problems solved.
I wonder if Rivian's business model is such that they wanted to create a product that is enticing enough that eventually one of the big players buys them out, which Ford may still do. That solves all of the production problems that Tesla has.
The build to get bought out model is very popular, but I'm surprised they were able to source funding all this time. In any case, agreed, master play on their part.
If/when Tesla goes bankrupt, someone will buy them for cheap and solve their operational headaches too.
Ford doesn't even need to restyle it. Just slap their badge on and go. :lol:
Quote from: Rockraven on April 24, 2019, 03:58:03 PM
Ford doesn't even need to restyle it. Just slap their badge on and go. :lol:
Honestly, yeah. It really does look like a concept Ford would release.
Quote from: FoMoJo on April 24, 2019, 10:12:34 AM
Good move on Fords part, I think?
Had to - Ford has nothing in EVs.
Mind you, I don't think there's really any future in EVs, but getting left behind by the industry doesn't look good from a societal/political perspective...
EVs will be the future, but that future is pretty far off. Just like it is for the autonomous car takeover (which is even farther off, IMO).
Ford has nothing good in EV's and they are flopping in China and Europe.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 24, 2019, 05:47:20 PM
Had to - Ford has nothing in EVs.
Mind you, I don't think there's really any future in EVs, but getting left behind by the industry doesn't look good from a societal/political perspective...
The future is in light and commercial trucks. Cars... not so much (yet).
If bonehead Musk concentrated on his trucks first, things might be vastly better right now.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 24, 2019, 05:47:20 PM
Had to - Ford has nothing in EVs.
Mind you, I don't think there's really any future in EVs, but getting left behind by the industry doesn't look good from a societal/political perspective...
You may remember that Ford was selling Escape hybrids in 2005. Their current/future Euro line contains many EVs PHEVs and Hybrids.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 24, 2019, 07:18:27 PM
Ford has nothing good in EV's and they are flopping in China and Europe.
Ford has been focusing battery development. EVs are useless without advanced battery technology.
Quote from: FoMoJo on April 24, 2019, 08:17:59 PM
You may remember that Ford was selling Escape hybrids in 2005. Their current/future Euro line contains many EVs PHEVs and Hybrids.
The Escape Hybrid was basically a Prius with a Ford 2.3L instead of the Toyota 1NZFXE.
The Focus Electric was a bust.
The new Escape looks promising, especially it's Hybrid, but the old Ford Hybrids (Fusion, C-Max) were also-rans in the market. And the "Mach-E" electric car is MIA.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 24, 2019, 08:25:09 PM
The Escape Hybrid was basically a Prius with a Ford 2.3L instead of the Toyota 1NZFXE.
The Focus Electric was a bust.
The new Escape looks promising, especially it's Hybrid, but the old Ford Hybrids (Fusion, C-Max) were also-rans in the market. And the "Mach-E" electric car is MIA.
Yes, Ford used much of Toyota's patented technology, but they also have more than 100 patents on their system.