Built in Detroit Roxor to start at $15,549.

[Soup DeVille]

How do they manage to get a 2.5L turbodiesel to put out only 62HP?

That's right in line with most industrial grade engines.

[93JC]

I was curious too, how it only managed to make 62 hp from a 2.5 L. I suspect this is an old International Harvester tractor engine with a new head and fuel injection system. Mahindra is now the largest tractor manufacturer in the world. They got their start in the tractor market building licensed copies of IH products.

In India the vehicle is sold as the Thar, which is marketed with a new 105 hp engine and this older 63 hp one: http://www.mahindrathar.com/mahindra-thar-models.aspx#!thar-models-specification

A 2523 cc engine is also sold in at least some of their tractors: https://www.mahindratractor.com/tractor-mechanisation-solutions/tractor/mahindra-595-di It's the exact same displacement as their jeep engine; I presume it's the same.

I figured this is an old IH engine given the bore and stroke, 88.9 mm x 101.6 mm, converts to exactly 3.5" x 4": same as an IH BD154 diesel from the '60s.

[CaminoRacer]

They need to make the 105 hp engine an option.

[93JC]

I doubt they will, in order to keep up the appearance that this is strictly an off-road vehicle. You can see on the Mahindra website that the Thar comes with a much more substantial interior, full windshield, doors, roof, etc. that the Roxor  won't have. More power and creature comforts will raise the ire of government regulators who may consider it a non-FMVSS-compliant car instead.

[Rich]

I wonder how easy it would be to mod it. Im assuming it's an iron block

[Soup DeVille]

I wonder how easy it would be to mod it. Im assuming it's an iron block

Diesels often just need moar boost; but really, 62 HP is plenty for an offroad vehicle of this size

[giant_mtb]

Yeah, crawling through the woods is relatively easy work.  More tire spin isn't always a good thing.

[CaminoRacer]

More is always better

[Payman]

Comparing the Roxor with the Polaris RZR XP 1000...

Roxor: 62 HP at 3200 RPM and 144 lb-ft at 1400 rpm.

RZR: 110 HP @ 8500 RPM and 70 lb-ft @ 7600 rpm.

At 3200 rpm, the RZR is only making 35 hp, and at 1400 rpm, ~50 ft-lb of torque. Different machines at roughly the same price, but it's clear the Roxor is a low speed, high grunt offroader. It'll tractor over a hill, while the RZR will spin a roostertail at high rpm going up the hill.

[giant_mtb]

Comparing the two seems pretty moot.

[Payman]

Comparing the two seems pretty moot.

Why? They're 2 seater SBS's that cost roughly the same. A comparison is important to decide what kind of offroading you want to do.

[giant_mtb]

Why? They're 2 seater SBS's that cost roughly the same. A comparison is important to decide what kind of offroading you want to do.

Fair enough.

[MX793]

Why? They're 2 seater SBS's that cost roughly the same. A comparison is important to decide what kind of offroading you want to do.

It's like comparing a Kawasaki Mule to a RZR.  Or a Polaris Ranger to the RZR, if we want to stay in the same stable.  The Roxor is more a utility vehicle, whereas the RZR is a sport/performance model.

[giant_mtb]

It's like comparing a Kawasaki Mule to a RZR.  Or a Polaris Ranger to the RZR, if we want to stay in the same stable.  The Roxor is more a utility vehicle, whereas the RZR is a sport/performance model.

It's like cross shopping a Wrangler and a Raptor. Or a Silverado and a Camara. Or something. 

[93JC]

It's definitely the market they're trying to attract, but I think they're doing so more out of necessity than anything. For what it's worth Mahindra already makes a couple side-by-sides, the Retriever and XTV. I think they're using this thing to dip their toes into the full-fledged automobile market without having to go through the rigamarole of fully certifying a product. There was talk they wanted to sell their pickup truck here about eight years ago, remember? I bet they still do.

[Payman]

It's like comparing a Kawasaki Mule to a RZR.  Or a Polaris Ranger to the RZR, if we want to stay in the same stable.  The Roxor is more a utility vehicle, whereas the RZR is a sport/performance model.

Well yeah, no shit. I just wanted to compare the 2 types. Most, or at least many buyers don't know what kind of SBS they need or want, which is why they should compare them.

[Payman]

MSRP on their US configurator starts at $14,999.

[Soup DeVille]

Comparing the two seems pretty moot.

They're both off road toys in the same price range.

[giant_mtb]

Most, or at least many buyers don't know what kind of SBS they need or want

You say this as if the Internet doesn't exist and people don't do hours of research before walking into a powersports shop to drop $15k. 🤔

[Payman]

You say this as if the Internet doesn't exist and people don't do hours of research before walking into a powersports shop to drop $15k. 🤔

Right... to compare the different types to determine what fits their needs. The main point of my comparison was the complaint that the Roxor engine was only 62 hp from 2500 cc, while other SBS's have well over 100 from 800-1000 cc's. At low rpm, where the rough terrain grunt is needed, the RZR and Maverick types are only making around half the power of the Roxor. Conversely, the Roxor won't touch the high revving SBS's in open terrain.

[AutobahnSHO]

You say this as if the Internet doesn't exist and people don't do hours of research before walking into a powersports shop to drop $15k. 🤔

LOL Tons of people just get a tax return or itching to go 'outdoors' and likely do just go drop money on stuff. They're not even paying for it, they're getting a loan.

[MX793]

Right... to compare the different types to determine what fits their needs. The main point of my comparison was the complaint that the Roxor engine was only 62 hp from 2500 cc, while other SBS's have well over 100 from 800-1000 cc's. At low rpm, where the rough terrain grunt is needed, the RZR and Maverick types are only making around half the power of the Roxor. Conversely, the Roxor won't touch the high revving SBS's in open terrain.

Power/torque @ RPM doesn't really matter that much with the RZR since it has a CVT (snowmobile transmission).

[Payman]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/fca-seeks-to-stop-jeep-like-mahindra-roxor-4x4-in-the-us

[93JC]

Not surprised FCA is doing that. They make a shit-ton of money from Jeep Wrangler sales, and the Roxor is very clearly just a CJ with a slightly different grille. Mahindra had a licence to build copies in India, and I would strongly suspect that licensing agreement would not allow them to sell these outside of India (and perhaps some of India's neighbouring countries). Jeep still makes a mint off of a very similar successor vehicle: they have to defend their trademarks as vigorously as they can in order to maintain them.

[Payman]

Not surprised FCA is doing that. They make a shit-ton of money from Jeep Wrangler sales, and the Roxor is very clearly just a CJ with a slightly different grille. Mahindra had a licence to build copies in India, and I would strongly suspect that licensing agreement would not allow them to sell these outside of India (and perhaps some of India's neighbouring countries). Jeep still makes a mint off of a very similar successor vehicle: they have to defend their trademarks as vigorously as they can in order to maintain them.

I dunno the conditions of the license agreement, but I don't think Mahindra would do this if it thought it was in contravention to that agreement. In their favour, it's based on a long obsolete design, and it's off-road only, marketed as a side-by-side ATV. FCA can go pound sand.

[MX793]

Didn't Chrysler/Jeep try to go after Hummer for using a similar grille design?

[93JC]

They didn't try to go after Hummer, they DID go after them for using a seven-slot grille. Their application for an injunction against GM was tossed for many reasons, among them the fact that the Hummer brand was borne of the same lineage as Jeep and they BOTH used seven-slot grilles for decades before DaimlerChrysler filed suit, and there had been many Jeeps made without seven-slot grilles.

The XJ alone had 10 slots ('84-'87)...



...eight ('88-'96)...



...21 ('84-'85 Wagoneer)...



... and no vertical slots at all! ('86-'90 Wagoneer)

[Payman]

Well, they at least changed the grille from that of their home market Thar to mitigate the possibility of FCA getting their panties in a bunch...

[giant_mtb]

I dunno the conditions of the license agreement, but I don't think Mahindra would do this if it thought it was in contravention to that agreement. In their favour, it's based on a long obsolete design, and it's off-road only, marketed as a side-by-side ATV. FCA can go pound sand.

Agreed.  I feel like Mahindra knew what they were doing and had/have their asses covered.  Don't worry, Jeep, the Roxor really isn't going to cut into Wrangler sales.  It's pretty niche for the simple fact that it's extremely spartan and not street legal. 

[93JC]

I think Mahindra knew what they were doing insofar as they're very careful to have changed the grille, removed most of the dashboard, deleted turn signals, etc. and marketed the vehicle exclusively as a "side-by-side" competitor. They probably knew FCA would have issue with this truck being sold here, so prepared themselves in advance to make the argument "Hey, look, we changed the look of the thing and made it so it's not street-legal and we've marketed it as an off-highway utility vehicle; we're not competing in the same market as Jeep®."

What will end up working against them is that in some states and municipalities the Roxor is legal to drive on-road. (I.e. in places where golf carts, SxS and ATVs are street-legal.) It's also incredibly easy to get aftermarket CJ-5 parts to make a Roxor "street-legal".