CR-V engine problems

[Eye of the Tiger]

And have a used oil analysis done if you suspect dilution.

[FoMoJo]

Well I know part of the problem: the CR-V's heater starts warming the passenger compartment long before the engine temp gauge has moved off its bottom stop. The Infiniti's heater kicks in way later down the road. So Honda is keeping its little engine cold (& therefore mixture-rich) way too long.

I don't see the connection unless you're suggesting that by allowing the heating coolant to to circulate through the heater, it's making it take longer to bring the coolant up to operating temperature.

[r0tor]

The temp gauge in the instrument cluster is most probably a glorified idiot light. An Obd2 scanner would show the real coolant temp.

[Morris Minor]

I don't see the connection unless you're suggesting that by allowing the heating coolant to to circulate through the heater, it's making it take longer to bring the coolant up to operating temperature.

This. ^
I did a little unscientific test today. Ambient temp about 35F.
Drove the car from cold with the cabin heating off. It took about five minutes for the engine coolant gauge to get to the middle - normal operating temp place on the scale.
Then I pressed the climate control 'auto' button to bring the passenger compartment up to 75F.
The coolant temp gauge dropped almost all the way to the bottom.

[12,000 RPM]

Very very interesting.

[JWC]

The temp gauge in the instrument cluster is most probably a glorified idiot light. An Obd2 scanner would show the real coolant temp.

This. ^
I did a little unscientific test today. Ambient temp about 35F.
Drove the car from cold with the cabin heating off. It took about five minutes for the engine coolant gauge to get to the middle - normal operating temp place on the scale.
Then I pressed the climate control 'auto' button to bring the passenger compartment up to 75F.
The coolant temp gauge dropped almost all the way to the bottom.

What rotor said. When you turn on the heater, cold coolant is being reintroduced to the engine, but the smog regulations dictate engine temp and how long it takes to come up to operating temp. Otherwise, the MIL will light up. 

My daughter's 07 Focus heater works very well, but the MIL is coming on because the engine temp isn't coming up to the specified range quick enough. I'll be installing a thermostat hoping that will correct the MIL issue.

[Morris Minor]

https://youtu.be/SrtULlpJHWE

[Morris Minor]

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair-maintenance/honda-delays-cr-v-turbo-engine-fix-details-rollout-plans/

[FoMoJo]

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair-maintenance/honda-delays-cr-v-turbo-engine-fix-details-rollout-plans/

It all sounds like a major problem with pistons, rings and cylinder walls; design/manufacture issue that is.  They, undoubtedly, have fixed the problem and should replace engines on all vehicles that have this faulty engine.

[Morris Minor]

It all sounds like a major problem with pistons, rings and cylinder walls; design/manufacture issue that is.  They, undoubtedly, have fixed the problem and should replace engines on all vehicles that have this faulty engine.

From cold I drive the car for 10 minutes before switching on the cabin heat. This allows the engine to warm up. The engine can't get itself up to working temperature AND deliver cabin heat simultaneously. It's akin to deliberately keeping an engine cold by both fitting an oversize radiator, and removing the coolant thermostat.


Edit. The car also makes the garage smell of gasoline. It's like I'm storing a leaky old 4-stroke lawn mower in there.

[Submariner]

I wonder why it only affects CR-V's, and not other Honda's with the same engine.

[FoMoJo]

From cold I drive the car for 10 minutes before switching on the cabin heat. This allows the engine to warm up. The engine can't get itself up to working temperature AND deliver cabin heat simultaneously. It's akin to deliberately keeping an engine cold by both fitting an oversize radiator, and removing the coolant thermostat.


Edit. The car also makes the garage smell of gasoline. It's like I'm storing a leaky old 4-stroke lawn mower in there.

Even with a cold engine, it shouldn't leak gas down the cylinder walls.

[JWC]

I turn my heat on as the engine warms up. I used to wait and let the engine warm up, but the dash pad in my Trans Am cracked when hot air hit it on a very cold morning. Lesson learned. Now I want the coolant in the heater core to warm up at the same time as the engine. The Crosstour takes about seven minutes to heat up the cabin. It takes less than fifteen to get to work. 

[shp4man]

Turbocharged direct injection engines all have some unforeseen issues like this thing with Honda. Another issue is when the engine is hot, there's a possibility of something called mega-knock caused by pre-ignition in low RPM/high load situations.
The reason for it is fairly technical, related to the space between the cylinder wall and the beginning of the top compression ring.

Let's just say if I was getting a new F150, it would be the 5.0 engine.

[GoCougs]

It all sounds like a major problem with pistons, rings and cylinder walls; design/manufacture issue that is.  They, undoubtedly, have fixed the problem and should replace engines on all vehicles that have this faulty engine.

Even with a cold engine, it shouldn't leak gas down the cylinder walls.

Actually, yes, gas will get by rings in a properly designed/built engine. Fairly common in old-school carb'd whereby A/F is fixed - run too rich or leak gas into the intake manifold and you'd get gas in the oil. Oil control rings are designed for far more viscous engine oil - gasoline (or gasoline-contaminated oil) is thinner, and leaks past the rings.

It's not a (physical) design problem - pistons/rings/etc. are extremely likely to be fine. For some reason the engine is not allowed to warm up, which means a richer A/F mixture, which means gas in the oil. Honda's fix isn't a new engine but new software to let it warm up properly.

This has been a complaint from other turbo motors as well, particularly Ecoboost. Designers have to be extremely careful to avoid too lean of a A/F mixture in turbo motors in order to mitigate detonation, ergo, turbo motors' tendency toward lackluster real-world MPG.

[FoMoJo]

Turbocharged direct injection engines all have some unforeseen issues like this thing with Honda. Another issue is when the engine is hot, there's a possibility of something called mega-knock caused by pre-ignition in low RPM/high load situations.
The reason for it is fairly technical, related to the space between the cylinder wall and the beginning of the top compression ring.

Let's just say if I was getting a new F150, it would be the 5.0 engine.

There must be millions of small displacement twin scroll turbo engines on the road now.  Haven't heard a lot of complaints other than carbon issues.  The EcoBoost 2.0 in our Discovery Sport runs like a jewel after two years.  What bothered me a bit was that service is required only after 16k kilometers or 1 year, this includes oil change, filters, etc.  I've stuck to this schedule and no issues; other than the infotainment system which reboots on it's own when it feel like it.

[FoMoJo]

Actually, yes, gas will get by rings in a properly designed/built engine. Fairly common in old-school carb'd whereby A/F is fixed - run too rich or leak gas into the intake manifold and you'd get gas in the oil. Oil control rings are designed for far more viscous engine oil - gasoline (or gasoline-contaminated oil) is thinner, and leaks past the rings.

It's not a (physical) design problem - pistons/rings/etc. are extremely likely to be fine. For some reason the engine is not allowed to warm up, which means a richer A/F mixture, which means gas in the oil. Honda's fix isn't a new engine but new software to let it warm up properly.

This has been a complaint from other turbo motors as well, particularly Ecoboost. Designers have to be extremely careful to avoid too lean of a A/F mixture in turbo motors in order to mitigate detonation, ergo, turbo motors' tendency toward lackluster real-world MPG.

Some problems have been reported, but not to the extent of the Honda problem.  Something as simple as wrong oil type could cause that sort of problem.

[giant_mtb]

There must be millions of small displacement twin scroll turbo engines on the road now.  Haven't heard a lot of complaints other than carbon issues.  The EcoBoost 2.0 in our Discovery Sport runs like a jewel after two years.  What bothered me a bit was that service is required only after 16k kilometers or 1 year, this includes oil change, filters, etc.  I've stuck to this schedule and no issues; other than the infotainment system which reboots on it's own when it feel like it.

My A4 had "recommended" 10k mile (16k km) service intervals, which included oil change.  I had those services done, as they were included with the car, but I sure as shit did an oil change myself halfway in between around 5k miles. Probably not truly necessary, but cheap peace of mind, especially on a turbr0.

[FoMoJo]

My A4 had "recommended" 10k mile (16k km) service intervals, which included oil change.  I had those services done, as they were included with the car, but I sure as shit did an oil change myself halfway in between around 5k miles. Probably not truly necessary, but cheap peace of mind, especially on a turbr0.

In the past, I would've as well, but since we have the car on a 3 1/2 year lease, I'm just going along with the schedule. 

[GoCougs]

There must be millions of small displacement twin scroll turbo engines on the road now.  Haven't heard a lot of complaints other than carbon issues.  The EcoBoost 2.0 in our Discovery Sport runs like a jewel after two years.  What bothered me a bit was that service is required only after 16k kilometers or 1 year, this includes oil change, filters, etc.  I've stuck to this schedule and no issues; other than the infotainment system which reboots on it's own when it feel like it.

There have been enormous volumes of complaints and recalls regarding turbo motors - poor MPG, gas in the oil, various mech. maladies - esp. with Ford and Kia/Hyundai products (and now Honda).

[Morris Minor]

I've submitted my complaint to add to the list at carcomplaints.com.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR-V/2017/engine/high_oil_level_with_gas_in_oil.shtml

[GoCougs]

Yikes, I would not be happy (esp. since I've had a great track record for my last three vehicles - including an Accord).

[JWC]

Even the old reliable Saab Turbo had oiling problems. Notably sludge issues.

[FoMoJo]

There have been enormous volumes of complaints and recalls regarding turbo motors - poor MPG, gas in the oil, various mech. maladies - esp. with Ford and Kia/Hyundai products (and now Honda).

Certainly there are some complaints, but not massive complaints as with the Honda 1.5 T. 

[FoMoJo]

Even the old reliable Saab Turbo had oiling problems. Notably sludge issues.

As did Toyota a few years ago.  Bad engineering.

[GoCougs]

Certainly there are some complaints, but not massive complaints as with the Honda 1.5 T. 

Ecoboost is legion in its recalls, complaints and class-action lawsuits. Just Google "ecoboost gas in oil" or "ecoboost poor mpg" or "ecoboost class action lawsuit" or "ecoboost NHTSA investigation."

[FoMoJo]

Ecoboost is legion in its recalls, complaints and class-action lawsuits. Just Google "ecoboost gas in oil" or "ecoboost poor mpg" or "ecoboost class action lawsuit" or "ecoboost NHTSA investigation."

I did, this is what I got...




This one was particularly interesting...Laboratory Testing of a 2017 Ford F-150 3.5L V6 EcoBoost With a 10-Speed Transmission

The vehicle benchmarked in this report is a 2017 Ford F-150 with the 3.5 liter V6 EcoBoost engine coupled to a newly introduced 10-speed automatic transmission. This particular powertrain configuration provides favorable fuel economy results while providing significant vehicle performance. The focus of the benchmark is to understand the use of critical powertrain components and their impact on the vehicle efficiency. The vehicle is instrumented to provide data to support the model development and validation in conjunction to providing the data for the analysis in the report. The vehicle is tested on a chassis dynamometer in the controlled laboratory environment across a range of certification tests. Further tests are performed to map the different powertrain components.  The analysis in this report start by providing the fuel economy and efficiency results on the certification drive cycles along with of component operation on those tests. The maximum performance envelops of the powertrain are presented. A section is devoted to specific powertrain characterization. Some off-cycle testing, such as the thermal testing of 5-cycle label fuel economy and octane fuel testing, is explored. Finally, some vehicle specific test, such as the impact of different drive modes on the transmission operation, increased payload and active grille shutters, close out the analysis.


Just a handful forum complaints about gas in oil.  The carbon NHTSA issue is closed.

As for mileage with a small displacement twin scroll turbo, as mentioned before, it works exceptionally well with a 8,9,10 speed transmission.  The trick is to keep the revs just at or slightly below the boost mark, but there is always power when you need it at higher revs.  It's all down to the software.  I get well above the EPA rating if I drive with a light foot.

[Morris Minor]

On the bright side, the CR-V gets real-world 31 mpg. (33 mpg without the gas-tank-to-oil-pan pump option)

[Submariner]

On the bright side, the CR-V gets real-world 31 mpg. (33 mpg without the gas-tank-to-oil-pan pump option)

City or highway?

[2o6]

I still am curious as to why the CR-V seems prone to this issue, but not the Accord or Civic.



This doesn't sound as bad as the R18 block cracking issues of the Mid 00's tho.