Car Chat

Started by FoMoJo, August 26, 2014, 05:59:31 AM

Laconian

Quote from: MX793 on May 21, 2020, 08:53:32 PM
I think they are a gimmick for people in the high risk pool (young people, people with accident history, poor credit, etc).

(football fans)
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

giant_mtb

Quote from: MX793 on May 21, 2020, 08:53:32 PM
I think they are a gimmick for people in the high risk pool (young people, people with accident history, poor credit, etc).

My ex has one...just detailed her car recently and spotted it.  She just had surgery today on her wrist for an accident she didn't cause almost a year ago.

dazzleman

Quote from: MX793 on May 21, 2020, 08:53:32 PM
I think they are a gimmick for people in the high risk pool (young people, people with accident history, poor credit, etc).

That makes sense.   Those are people who have more need for the relatively paltry discounts offered for using the devices, and it also makes sense for the insurance companies to take a more in depth look at their driving practices as opposed to a long term customer with no history of claims.
A good friend will come bail you out of jail...BUT, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, DAMN...that was fun!

dazzleman

Quote from: Laconian on May 21, 2020, 09:10:13 PM
(football fans)

?  What does being a football fan have to do with it?  Do you really think there's a correlation between being a football fan and bad driving, bad credit, etc?
A good friend will come bail you out of jail...BUT, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, DAMN...that was fun!

Laconian

Quote from: dazzleman on May 21, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
?  What does being a football fan have to do with it?  Do you really think there's a correlation between being a football fan and bad driving, bad credit, etc?

Yes. :lol: Just like how daytime TV is nothing but ads for prescription drugs and mesothelioma lawsuits, NFL has a lot of car insurance ads targeting higher risk drivers.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

dazzleman

#10175
Quote from: Laconian on May 21, 2020, 10:07:36 PM
Yes. :lol: Just like how daytime TV is nothing but ads for prescription drugs and mesothelioma lawsuits, NFL has a lot of car insurance ads targeting higher risk drivers.

A lot of young males are football fans so that makes some sense since they tend to be higher risk drivers.  Football is one place to find such people in abundance.  But it doesn't correlate that football fans in general have bad driving habits.  I suspect that if you take the various demographic age groups, you'll find the driving habits will not vary much between football fans and non-football fans.

Daytime TV ads are the absolute worst.  Very depressing.  Football game ads appeal.to me a lot more.. :lol:

When I was in Seattle, I didn't drive fast at all.  I wasn't comfortable with that car for some reason.  I should have rented a 'stang.
A good friend will come bail you out of jail...BUT, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, DAMN...that was fun!

Laconian

I watch NFL games, and I break the speed limit from time to time. Don't chip my car, bro. :mask:
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

dazzleman

#10177
Quote from: Laconian on May 21, 2020, 10:23:12 PM
I watch NFL games, and I break the speed limit from time to time. Don't chip my car, bro. :mask:

:lol:
You don't break the speed limit enough!  Maybe you need to watch more football.  :evildude:

My brother (the one you met) had one of those trackers.  I guess he accepted it for the discount.  He just drove super carefully during the time he had it.  It was a short time.  I'm goo suspicious to have one, plus I don't want to have to drive slowly and carefully.  They'd.be appalled if they caught me on certain drives... :lol:
A good friend will come bail you out of jail...BUT, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, DAMN...that was fun!

giant_mtb

#10178
Quote from: MrH on May 21, 2020, 08:14:23 PM
You're shocked you can open the hatch with the key in your pocket...

You have obviously never actually used (or tried to use) one of those "wave your foot" tailgates before.  And you think I don't understand what a vicinity key fob is. :wtf:

MX793

Quote from: giant_mtb on May 21, 2020, 10:41:37 PM
You have obviously never actually used (or tried to use) one of those "wave your foot" tailgates before.  And you think I don't understand what a vicinity key fob is. :wtf:

I've had a couple of rentals with them and they've always worked for me.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Morris Minor

My insurance rates went up about 20% when I moved from the crazy suburbs to this rural mountain area. I queried it ("isn't this a safer ZIP code?"). They told me they go much more granular than ZIP codes & that its risk & claims history of this particular area I'm in.

My suspicion is it's a combination of an older population, narrow twisty hilly roads, and higher speeds once you're out on the public roads (much higher speeds).
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

cawimmer430

Quote from: 2o6 on May 21, 2020, 09:18:37 AM
The internet's insistence of shitting on "torsion beam" versus "multi-link" is the weirdest thing we've come to lately.


There's nothing wrong with torsion beams for many applications. You can't even tell the difference in most applications.


I agree.

I'm just saying there's a small handling difference that's noticeable when you're driving a little faster. ;)
-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
www.wimmerfotografie.de
www.facebook.com/wimmerfotografie

cawimmer430

Quote from: Morris Minor on May 21, 2020, 06:17:36 PM
That CLK350 we had was a case in point. It was a delight - just beautifully put together - two planes above the Infiniti and three above the CR-V.

It still kills me that that truck ripped the side off it.

Yep, it's those tangible differences that set apart a compact Audi, BMW or MB from their mainstream competitors, especially now (past products had rather cheap interiors and didn't feel that special).
-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
www.wimmerfotografie.de
www.facebook.com/wimmerfotografie

dazzleman

Quote from: Morris Minor on May 22, 2020, 05:27:38 AM
My insurance rates went up about 20% when I moved from the crazy suburbs to this rural mountain area. I queried it ("isn't this a safer ZIP code?"). They told me they go much more granular than ZIP codes & that its risk & claims history of this particular area I'm in.

My suspicion is it's a combination of an older population, narrow twisty hilly roads, and higher speeds once you're out on the public roads (much higher speeds).

Maybe they just figured out that you're a wild and crazy driver.... :devil:
A good friend will come bail you out of jail...BUT, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, DAMN...that was fun!

FoMoJo

Quote from: cawimmer430 on May 22, 2020, 05:44:46 AM

I agree.

I'm just saying there's a small handling difference that's noticeable when you're driving a little faster. ;)
Perhaps they've improved torsion beam suspension in the last 15-20 years.  The multi-link vs torsion beam cars of 20 years ago were noticeable different in their ride/handling characteristics.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

cawimmer430

Quote from: FoMoJo on May 22, 2020, 08:07:59 AM
Perhaps they've improved torsion beam suspension in the last 15-20 years.  The multi-link vs torsion beam cars of 20 years ago were noticeable different in their ride/handling characteristics.

Oh definitely! And I don't have a problem with the general handling of the torsion beam equipped A-Classes and B-Classes: they're competent and more than sufficient for everyday driving. I believe Mazda also uses a torsion beam for their new 3.
-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
www.wimmerfotografie.de
www.facebook.com/wimmerfotografie

cawimmer430

First (technically second, MB gave him a full tank of gas) refueling of his B-Class. The fuel tank is rather small (44 liters / 11.6 US gallons), but with a warm engine and oil and the range is an astonishing 720 km (450 miles) at moderate speeds according to the trip computer. So far the fuel economy has blown my dad away.  ;)






And my dad's 1989 500SL has finally gotten its HISTORIC license plate! EC = Erich (dad) & Christian, 89 = 1989, the year the car was made. Looking forward to attending many classic car shows with my dad and this car. The 3/10 at the end indicates that the car can only be driven from March to October.




-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
www.wimmerfotografie.de
www.facebook.com/wimmerfotografie

FoMoJo

Quote from: cawimmer430 on May 22, 2020, 09:24:28 AM
Oh definitely! And I don't have a problem with the general handling of the torsion beam equipped A-Classes and B-Classes: they're competent and more than sufficient for everyday driving. I believe Mazda also uses a torsion beam for their new 3.

Yes, it may have started the controversy.  No more ZOOM ZOOM.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

FoMoJo

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

2o6

Quote from: FoMoJo on May 22, 2020, 10:16:19 AM
Yes, it may have started the controversy.  No more ZOOM ZOOM.

I guess the Mazda 3's case is annoying, mostly because torsion beams should take up less space; but the Mazda 3 is a cramped and expensive design, with unimpressive performance specs.


The main problem is that "IRS" is such a weirdly meaningless term, and it's applied in weird ways across the automotive journalism space. So many cars that US journalists lust after that we never got in the US, have torsion beams. Euro and Asian magazines don't care about the "torsion beam" or "IRS" so much either. It's also commonly conflated with completely solid axles, and dumbasses are saying the solid axle on an old mustang, is the same as a twist-axle from a Golf.


So many great cars use them, and it doesn't matter. Fastest FWD car around the Nurburgring (until the Lynk Cyan car) was a Megane - torsion beam rear axle.

Cobalt SS? Torsion beam.

Basically every French Hot hatch? Torsion beam.

The original GTI/Golf MK1 was advertised as having "independent rear suspension" versus its beam axle competitors. What did it have in the back? Torsion beam. In fact, save for the Golf V, all of the Golf cars have torsion beams, depending on trim.


Then, you have those 4WD Kei cars that people love to say "why don't we get those here???" The Suzuki branded ones (Spacia, Hustler) when not in FWD guise, use coil-sprung solid axles in the back.


Hyundai and Kia used mostly struts or a multi-link setup on most of their cars until around 2011 with the swoopy Elantra, but old Hyundais and Kias aren't really known for being sharp handling or good riding.


It's fine.

FoMoJo

Quote from: 2o6 on May 22, 2020, 12:21:11 PM
I guess the Mazda 3's case is annoying, mostly because torsion beams should take up less space; but the Mazda 3 is a cramped and expensive design, with unimpressive performance specs.


The main problem is that "IRS" is such a weirdly meaningless term, and it's applied in weird ways across the automotive journalism space. So many cars that US journalists lust after that we never got in the US, have torsion beams. Euro and Asian magazines don't care about the "torsion beam" or "IRS" so much either. It's also commonly conflated with completely solid axles, and dumbasses are saying the solid axle on an old mustang, is the same as a twist-axle from a Golf.


So many great cars use them, and it doesn't matter. Fastest FWD car around the Nurburgring (until the Lynk Cyan car) was a Megane - torsion beam rear axle.

Cobalt SS? Torsion beam.

Basically every French Hot hatch? Torsion beam.

The original GTI/Golf MK1 was advertised as having "independent rear suspension" versus its beam axle competitors. What did it have in the back? Torsion beam. In fact, save for the Golf V, all of the Golf cars have torsion beams, depending on trim.


Then, you have those 4WD Kei cars that people love to say "why don't we get those here???" The Suzuki branded ones (Spacia, Hustler) when not in FWD guise, use coil-sprung solid axles in the back.


Hyundai and Kia used mostly struts or a multi-link setup on most of their cars until around 2011 with the swoopy Elantra, but old Hyundais and Kias aren't really known for being sharp handling or good riding.


It's fine.
The only comparative experience I've had is driving an early 2000s (2005) Pontiac Sunfire vs. my wife's 2003 Focus.  Compared to the Focus, the Sunfire was truly horrible.  Living on a gravel road with much "washboard", the Sunfire rode like a bucking bronco while the Focus fairly danced over the bumps.  No comparison.  Maybe Europeans were far more clever in their designs.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

2o6

The Cavalier was also a very old design. Despite the new body, most of that car's chassis was about the same as what was introduced in 1982. Pretty much all GM J-bodies weren't dynamically very good, and by 2003, those cars felt pretty awful compared to basically every car on sale.

The Focus was all-new for the 2000 model year.


Eye of the Tiger

#10192
Quote from: 2o6 on May 22, 2020, 01:49:50 PM
The Cavalier was also a very old design. Despite the new body, most of that car's chassis was about the same as what was introduced in 1982. Pretty much all GM J-bodies weren't dynamically very good, and by 2003, those cars felt pretty awful compared to basically every car on sale.

The Focus was all-new for the 2000 model year.

But that solid rear axle was so robust.  :lol:


And that Iron Duke. Horrible packaging, but reliable as fuk
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

shp4man

Can't forget the oil slicks under the engine and the side windows that fell down inside the doors.  ;)

2o6

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on May 22, 2020, 02:03:02 PM
But that solid rear axle was so robust.  :lol:


And that Iron Duke. Horrible packaging, but reliable as fuk

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


Cavaliers are really good at running a very long time, horribly. So many ECOTEC 2.2L Cavaliers out there with timing chains stretched to hell.....just sorta still running. They'll do that until they rust out.

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: shp4man on May 22, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Can't forget the oil slicks under the engine and the side windows that fell down inside the doors.  ;)

The oil is built in rust protection, and you need the windows open when the AC quits.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

MX793

Quote from: 2o6 on May 22, 2020, 02:06:48 PM
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


Cavaliers are really good at running a very long time, horribly. So many ECOTEC 2.2L Cavaliers out there with timing chains stretched to hell.....just sorta still running. They'll do that until they rust out.

The Ecotec was only used in the last 2-3 years of production.  The vast majority of Cavs were running the old OHV 2.2L motor.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

2o6

Quote from: MX793 on May 22, 2020, 02:10:36 PM
The Ecotec was only used in the last 2-3 years of production.  The vast majority of Cavs were running the old OHV 2.2L motor.

Okay.  :huh:

veeman

[And my dad's 1989 500SL has finally gotten its HISTORIC license plate! EC = Erich (dad) & Christian, 89 = 1989, the year the car was made. Looking forward to attending many classic car shows with my dad and this car. The 3/10 at the end indicates that the car can only be driven from March to October.




[/quote]

What does the Classic Car license plate designation get you in Germany?  Other than it looks cool, I'm assuming you get a pass on some emissions and safety regulations. 

FoMoJo

Quote from: 2o6 on May 22, 2020, 01:49:50 PM
The Cavalier was also a very old design. Despite the new body, most of that car's chassis was about the same as what was introduced in 1982. Pretty much all GM J-bodies weren't dynamically very good, and by 2003, those cars felt pretty awful compared to basically every car on sale.

The Focus was all-new for the 2000 model year.
Having not driven a modern version of twist beam, I can't really compare the ride however, it still seems that whatever happens to one wheel would be felt by the the other to some extent, as well as the issue of unsprung weight.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."