Well wifey landed a gig and will be needing to take the Rabbit to work every day for at least the next couple of months. I am working from home for now but I still need a car for rainy days, interviews, the winter, going to the gym etc. I don't think this thing will see more than ~500 miles a month and I have the bike. So a lot of shit doesn't matter. Maintenance costs don't matter though I would like the thing to run. Gas mileage doesn't matter though I don't want the worst of both worlds (weak performance + shitty mileage). Practicality kind of doesn't matter either, it can be a 2 seater. Only real limitation is price and possibly insurance.
My heart is set on a 2.8-3.0L E36 but there are some interesting alternatives. Main things I want are RWD, ~mid 14 sec or less quarter mile, <3200lbs, <$10K price, and some level of long distance comfort
E46 330i/Ci- not as dynamically sharp but that's easily fixable. My main gripe with these is I prefer the older car's more angular looks. E46 is just a little too organic for me.
350Z- I know it's a whale, super high door sills etc etc. I've driven a few Gs and liked them though. The early + bottom of the line ones are light and cheap enough at least. Only gripe with this is tire noise, though I will see myself how bad this is.
S14 240SX- dog out of the box, I know, but they look great and are good platforms. Overpriced but in my price range nonetheless.
SN95 Cobra- On paper they sound good, but the build quality, rear suspension and image are all real turn offs. But they are quick, cheap and RWD.
FD3S RX-7- I love these cars but the issues. Plus one in my price range would be dicey. Still an idea though.
Z3 coupe 2.8/3.0- rare rare rare. I would have to make a day trip to see one. I love these cars too though. <3000lbs!!!
Boxster- just an idea.
MR2 Turbo- also just an idea. I imagine this being hell on the highway.
S2000- also just an idea. My buddy had a 2.0. Off the small cam it was a real dog. I don't have roads nearby to enjoy its powerband. Still though it's a nice convertible.
I def prefer RWD but I could do FWD too.
Another Maxima- dirt cheap, Keith Richards dependable, good on the highway, I know it like the back of my hand.
SVT Contour- There's one in my complex... really nice. Yes I know they aren't the snazziest or best built but they are just the right size and supposedly really fun to drive.
Accord V6 coupe- OK but a little big.
I'm at a loss guys. I have to start looking at cars this week and want to narrow it down to ~3-4 alternatives to look at. Wifey starts in 2 weeks and we are taking a 1 week vaca in Charleston. You know... de part by de beech mon. Thoughts???
You're not going to get an FD RX-7 at that price point. I hate how 350Zs drive. E36's look like something robocop would drive.
Honestly...a Miata is my pick at that price point, but sounds like you want something faster.
E36 M3 is probably your best bet if you like the looks of it.
Meh, save for the Maxima and Accord those are all generally lousy cars for what you want need - just get a moderately used Civic, get a job and then after a time think about upgrading.
It's all E36 here. Get a 328is coupe.
Yea part of me is questioning the idea of even spending $$$ on a car I prob won't drive more than 2-3x a week for ~10 miles at a time; plus with the Maxima I can do all my "enhancements" and still be well under budget. I'm just kind of tired of them though. Plus I do still have the bike. IDK
328is is prob the best balance of everything I want. I'm still gonna check out a 350Z though
I had an E36 325is and an E46 328Ci.
Go for the E46. You don't lose any driving fun, it's more reliable and much, much more upscale.
Prius.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 22, 2013, 03:13:59 PM
Yea part of me is questioning the idea of even spending $$$ on a car I prob won't drive more than 2-3x a week for ~10 miles at a time; plus with the Maxima I can do all my "enhancements" and still be well under budget. I'm just kind of tired of them though. Plus I do still have the bike. IDK
328is is prob the best balance of everything I want. I'm still gonna check out a 350Z though
You've had like 2 Maximas already. Get something new.
350Zs look great, but don't drive that way.
O man I found a purple on white 4dr 5 speed for 6K. Dude says someone is supposed to look at it tomorrow but he's a little flaky. This could definitely be it. If it's not I'm gonna look at Z's just to see if I personally hate them.
My Miata is my daily driver, until November anyways. Cost me $2,000 and $480 in maintenance receipts ( new brakes, exhaust gasket, front bearing). Solid little car that's fun to drive. Find something similar you can pay cash for. Oh, and insurance cost me just $550 for the year.
You will never, never get a good FD RX-7 for that price. Never, never and did I mention never? And even if it's one of my all time favorite cars I'd not get one for anything other then a toy. And even then it's a time bomb.
I just remembered- Preludes. I can get a 97-01 all day for what I really want to pay (<$5000), they are bulletproof, fun, quick and comfy enough as well. Plus I know them inside out as they are basically SWB Accords, but they aren't actually Accords.
SVT Focus > SVT Contour
SN95 Cobra looks good and is fast, but is extremely uncomfortable.
Get the Bimmer.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 22, 2013, 04:40:04 PM
I just remembered- Preludes. I can get a 97-01 all day for what I really want to pay (<$5000), they are bulletproof, fun, quick and comfy enough as well. Plus I know them inside out as they are basically SWB Accords, but they aren't actually Accords.
Great car if you can find a good example. Also, RSX?
"MR2 Turbo- also just an idea. I imagine this being hell on the highway."
Always a fan of that car. Looked great and had lots of leg and head room in it for a car that small. And not a bad amount of trunk space.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 22, 2013, 04:11:38 PM
O man I found a purple on white 4dr 5 speed for 6K. Dude says someone is supposed to look at it tomorrow but he's a little flaky. This could definitely be it. If it's not I'm gonna look at Z's just to see if I personally hate them.
Purple on white?
(http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com/Media/1175/2557757/635072305413189801.jpg)
http://www.discountautoinc.com/detail.aspx?id=2557757&PrefID=521&.aspx (http://www.discountautoinc.com/detail.aspx?id=2557757&PrefID=521&.aspx)
The SN95 is a riot to drive. Loud, torquey, loud, and a bit loose feeling. I like it.
Quote from: Raza on July 22, 2013, 06:44:56 PM
Purple on white?
Techno Violet on.... silver
I am warming up to the Prelude idea though. It's a more rational choice. This M3 is a steal though. It's undervalued by an easy 3-4K if everything is on the up and up.
Quote from: Vinsanity on July 22, 2013, 07:07:19 PM
(http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com/Media/1175/2557757/635072305413189801.jpg)
http://www.discountautoinc.com/detail.aspx?id=2557757&PrefID=521&.aspx (http://www.discountautoinc.com/detail.aspx?id=2557757&PrefID=521&.aspx)
Is that a 525??? What do I look like, Dazzleman :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 22, 2013, 07:25:00 PM
Is that a 525??? What do I look like, Dazzleman :lol:
530 :praise:
You and I both know you love those cars...
SVT Focus
Quote from: S204STi on July 22, 2013, 07:10:21 PM
The SN95 is a riot to drive. Loud, torquey, loud, and a bit loose feeling. I like it.
It's fun with suspension work done, otherwise it's very disconcerting that the car rolls and dives as much as it does.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 22, 2013, 08:00:11 PM
SVT Focus
:hesaid:
Still has the best steering feel of any car I've ever driven, including the GT-R.
I find the SVT Focus to be really, really, really, really, really ugly. Not even the exterior. The interior is what kills me. If I go the SVT route it will be the Contour. Looks better in and out, sounds better too. Focus is good but I can't get past the looks. There's a Contour by me for ~3500. If the Bimmer doesn't pan out I will def look at that.
I understand the statements about the interior, even though you eventually find it unique and interesting instead of the boring ass interiors found in other cars in it's class. The exterior though, is pretty nice looking.
SVT Contour is pretty awesome.
Take the bike to interviews, stay inside the 1 day a year it snows like everyone else.
It's a good looking car from the outside. Interior is where I will see it most though and I just can't get behind it. Contour's pretty generic but it's inoffensive. And that V6 snarl :wub:
Quote from: Onslaught on July 22, 2013, 04:55:59 PM
"MR2 Turbo- also just an idea. I imagine this being hell on the highway."
Always a fan of that car. Looked great and had lots of leg and head room in it for a car that small. And not a bad amount of trunk space.
People want a king's ransom for them though. And the NA one is a little slow IIRC (16 second quarter???). They are bulletproof though. If I can find one in the next couple of days I will check them out.
Quote from: Rockraven on July 22, 2013, 04:46:04 PM
Great car if you can find a good example. Also, RSX?
Im on the fence about the RSX. Pricey, not much faster than the Prelude, no double wishbone cred (suspension is actually pretty bad geometry wise). The K20A is cool but not really worth the 2-3K more they go for over the Prelude. Plus the Lude has a more mature look IMO
Quote from: Tave on July 22, 2013, 08:41:54 PM
Take the bike to interviews, stay inside the 1 day a year it snows like everyone else.
It's been rainy as hell dude.
This is a rain season of biblical proportions. It won't be this bad for another 3000 years.
it's like a FWD E36, no?
(http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/544/408/images/2013/7/18/350/641/32373902294.350641350.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jpg)
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=350641350 (http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=350641350)
TSX is slow as fuck... its like the Prelude with another 300lbs
And even if it never rains again it will still probably get cold. I am def leaning towards the Ludes if this M3 doesn't pan out.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 22, 2013, 09:30:20 PM
TSX is slow as fuck... its like the Prelude with another 300lbs
And even if it never rains again it will still probably get cold. I am def leaning towards the Ludes if this M3 doesn't pan out.
Its gotta be getting hard to find clean Preludes.
You said you really wanted RWD, but you have abandoned it already.
We all know he's gonna buy a honda! :mask:
He's gonna get a Maxima.
For RWD, it's pretty much the Miata or something old.
I don't understand the aversion to a MacPherson strut, multilink Acura RSX, but you'll get a Maxima like you had with a torsion beam at the rear. And I feel like the 2003+ Maximas are both ugly and unreliable.
Focus SVT >> SVT Contour, seemingly all SVT Contours are beat to shit.
Also, there are no more Preludes.
Early Lexus IS
2004+ Acura TL
EP3
Subaru Legacy GT
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 22, 2013, 07:25:00 PM
Techno Violet on.... silver
I am warming up to the Prelude idea though. It's a more rational choice. This M3 is a steal though. It's undervalued by an easy 3-4K if everything is on the up and up.
Is that a 525??? What do I look like, Dazzleman :lol:
You could easily get a 540i 6 speed for under 10K.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 22, 2013, 09:33:46 PM
Its gotta be getting hard to find clean Preludes.
The 5th gens are abundant... they have always been expensive and a little out of the reach of idiots. There are a few good stock ones nearby.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 22, 2013, 10:08:41 PM
You said you really wanted RWD, but you have abandoned it already.
For what I have + want to spend it's slim pickings. If this M3 is clean it is the deal of the century. A regular priced one (~10K) will have to be damn good. Everyone says Miata, I really don't want one. I know I go on about how balance is important yadda yadda but I have been spoiled by the bike. I want something with bite. Lude handles well and can be quick for cheap. Just bought for cheap period.
Quote from: 2o6 on July 23, 2013, 12:16:08 AM
I don't understand the aversion to a MacPherson strut, multilink Acura RSX, but you'll get a Maxima like you had with a torsion beam at the rear. And I feel like the 2003+ Maximas are both ugly and unreliable.
Focus SVT >> SVT Contour, seemingly all SVT Contours are beat to shit.
Also, there are no more Preludes.
Early Lexus IS
2004+ Acura TL
EP3
Subaru Legacy GT
Maxima is safe cheap and easy. And its suspension is better than the RSX in practice (!!!), especially when lowered (which you guys know I have to do). There is one CSVT around here that is clean as fuck for $3500.
Your suggestions are sound on the surface but let's look at them. IS is slow, my buddy had one in HS and we all hated it. TL is OK but a bit of a behemoth and heavily Honda taxed... an 02-03 Maxima is 90% as good for 50% of the price. EP3 is an RSX... not a bad car but a little too boy racer for me as well as slow and with the suspension issues. I have no use for AWD in a place with (supposedly) little rain and no snow. I do like the Legacy though. If it was RWD I would love a 3.0R
Quote from: Raza on July 23, 2013, 02:05:52 AM
You could easily get a 540i 6 speed for under 10K.
I thought about this too. I do like the E34s. E39s are damn pretty too. If I can't find an E36/E46 I might check these out. They are big and heavy though.
I can't sleep. I am hoping this other M3 dude flakes
There's no goddamn suspension issues! It handles fucking fine!
Quote from: 2o6 on July 23, 2013, 07:38:27 AM
There's no goddamn suspension issues! It handles fucking fine!
+1
:facepalm:
I give up.
Quote from: Raza on July 23, 2013, 02:05:52 AM
You could easily get a 540i 6 speed for under 10K.
That was my thought as well, in fact just the other day I saw this.
http://mankato.craigslist.org/cto/3916629524.html (http://mankato.craigslist.org/cto/3916629524.html)
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/3937962364.html (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/3937962364.html)
I know they are high mileage, and that may not be bad(if it has a 40lb box of maintenance receipts with it).
I can't believe how cheap these are getting.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 23, 2013, 07:42:52 AM
That was my thought as well, in fact just the other day I saw this.
http://mankato.craigslist.org/cto/3916629524.html (http://mankato.craigslist.org/cto/3916629524.html)
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/3937962364.html (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/3937962364.html)
I know they are high mileage, and that may not be bad(if it has a 40lb box of maintenance receipts with it).
I can't believe how cheap these are getting.
Holy shit buy one.
Quote from: Raza on July 23, 2013, 07:49:58 AM
Holy shit buy one.
I did think about it, for a few moments. I'm officially out of garage space, which is making it really hard to buy another vehicle. Otherwise I'd be buying a few more cars. but since I have very little(actually no space, but I think i can get 4 cars in my 3 car attached garage) I have to be very picky about what I buy next. Probably going to be a 911, I hope.
I used to work with a guy years ago who had an E39 M5. He worked in purchasing, wore a headset, and spent 8 hours a day yelling into the phone. I figured he was always yelling at incompetent suppliers. Turns out half the calls were to the dealership about getting his M5 fixed :lol:
Quote from: MrH on July 23, 2013, 07:55:00 AM
I used to work with a guy years ago who had an E39 M5. He worked in purchasing, wore a headset, and spent 8 hours a day yelling into the phone. I figured he was always yelling at incompetent suppliers. Turns out half the calls were to the dealership about getting his M5 fixed :lol:
"What the hell do you mean the front control arms are bad, I just replaced them 20K miles ago."
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 23, 2013, 07:54:13 AM
I did think about it, for a few moments. I'm officially out of garage space, which is making it really hard to buy another vehicle. Otherwise I'd be buying a few more cars. but since I have very little(actually no space, but I think i can get 4 cars in my 3 car attached garage) I have to be very picky about what I buy next. Probably going to be a 911, I hope.
Sell your dumb boy racer 2F2F Evo and your faggy Miata.
Quote from: Raza on July 23, 2013, 08:15:09 AM
Sell your dumb boy racer 2F2F Evo and your faggy Miata.
I've thought of selling the miata, but there is one problem. If I sold it I would just refill that space with a newer miata or most likely a Boxster. Then I'd be back in the same situation. I've talked to a few contractors about adding onto the house garage. That seems like a more realistic thing in the long run.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 23, 2013, 08:17:48 AM
I've thought of selling the miata, but there is one problem. If I sold it I would just refill that space with a newer miata or most likely a Boxster. Then I'd be back in the same situation. I've talked to a few contractors about adding onto the house garage. That seems like a more realistic thing in the long run.
Okay, I actually really like your Evo. But, M5 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Evo.
Sell the Miata and get a Z4 (or a Boxster or 996 Cabrio, whatever) and sell the Evo and get an M5. And then sell your 300ZX and get an RS4.
Quote from: 2o6 on July 23, 2013, 07:38:27 AM
There's no goddamn suspension issues! It handles fucking fine!
It's so good Realtime Racing successfully lobbied the SCCA to let them completely redesign the rear suspension....
I'm sure its not terrible but it's not better than the Prelude for example. I do want to do some track days in this thing and the EP3/RSX suspension is not good for that
O and those M5 ads piss me off, an 03 M3 is a good 4-6K more than that in the same damn condition
Quote from: Raza on July 23, 2013, 08:23:45 AM
Okay, I actually really like your Evo. But, M5 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Evo.
Sell the Miata and get a Z4 (or a Boxster or 996 Cabrio, whatever) and sell the Evo and get an M5. And then sell your 300ZX and get an RS4.
I like M5's, but it's apples to oranges in a comparison with an EVO. The evo is a better road/track car IMO when you prioritize weight/handling and driver feedback.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 23, 2013, 08:58:49 AM
It's so good Realtime Racing successfully lobbied the SCCA to let them completely redesign the rear suspension....
I'm sure its not terrible but it's not better than the Prelude for example. I do want to do some track days in this thing and the EP3/RSX suspension is not good for that
O and those M5 ads piss me off, an 03 M3 is a good 4-6K more than that in the same damn condition
I'd dig long and hard to find a 330 ZHP if I were in your shoes, might be a bit over budget but well worth it.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 23, 2013, 09:06:55 AM
I like M5's, but it's apples to oranges in a comparison with an EVO. The evo is a better road/track car IMO when you prioritize weight/handling and driver feedback.
I outlined the entire plan, Paul Walker. Stop clinging to your cereal box prize car!
I require a techno violet sedan very soon
Quote from: Raza on July 23, 2013, 08:23:45 AM
Okay, I actually really like your Evo. But, M5 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Evo.
Sell the Miata and get a Z4 (or a Boxster or 996 Cabrio, whatever) and sell the Evo and get an M5. And then sell your 300ZX and get an RS4.
You're very good at spending other people's money. You could make a good wife one day!
Quote from: Onslaught on July 23, 2013, 09:11:53 AM
You're very good at spending other people's money. You could make a good wife one day!
That's the plan.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2014&zip=19130&transmissionCode=MAN&maxPrice=6000&transmissionCodes=MAN&mmt=%5BBMW%5B%5D%5B3_SERIES%5B%5D%5D%5D&vehicleStyleCodes=COUPE&modelCode1=3_SERIES&makeCode1=BMW&startYear=1990&showcaseOwnerId=0&searchRadius=0&bodyStyleCodes=COUPE&listingId=349625419&listingIndex=3&Log=0 (http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2014&zip=19130&transmissionCode=MAN&maxPrice=6000&transmissionCodes=MAN&mmt=%5BBMW%5B%5D%5B3_SERIES%5B%5D%5D%5D&vehicleStyleCodes=COUPE&modelCode1=3_SERIES&makeCode1=BMW&startYear=1990&showcaseOwnerId=0&searchRadius=0&bodyStyleCodes=COUPE&listingId=349625419&listingIndex=3&Log=0)
:hmm:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 23, 2013, 08:58:49 AM
It's so good Realtime Racing successfully lobbied the SCCA to let them completely redesign the rear suspension....
I'm sure its not terrible but it's not better than the Prelude for example. I do want to do some track days in this thing and the EP3/RSX suspension is not good for that
O and those M5 ads piss me off, an 03 M3 is a good 4-6K more than that in the same damn condition
A maxima slammed on eBay coilovers is not going to be better on a track...
Want
http://rochester.craigslist.org/cto/3892344320.html (http://rochester.craigslist.org/cto/3892344320.html)
Now you have me searching for Preludes. Damn it. I didn't realize they were getting so cheap.
Also, I know you said you didn't need AWD, and you'd have to travel for one, but a Saab 9-2X Aero would be a great daily driver.
EDIT: The Prelude's trunk is smaller than my Z4's...
Get a C208 Mercedes CLK55 AMG! :ohyeah:
(http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/gallery/MERCEDESBENZCLK55AMG-C208--2395_2.jpg)
Quote from: cawimmer430 on July 23, 2013, 09:34:54 AM
Get a C208 Mercedes CLK55 AMG! :ohyeah:
(http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/gallery/MERCEDESBENZCLK55AMG-C208--2395_2.jpg)
There's the wimmer I remember, representing mercedes benz. Thanks for not suggesting he get a 1964 caprice classic brouham deluxe starliner tourer.
Back on point, If manual isn't a requirement I'd seriously shop the older AMG options(C32/C43/E55 etc).
Those old AMG's are really really nice cars that are very reasonable on the used market.
Here's an example from my area.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/3918299005.html (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/3918299005.html)
34K original miles.
I've also seen C55(my fav) and E55(non supercharged) in that same 9-10K price range.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 23, 2013, 10:01:48 AM
There's the wimmer I remember, representing mercedes benz. Thanks for not suggesting he get a 1964 caprice classic brouham deluxe starliner tourer.
Agreed :golfclap:
E55's are boss, even the W210's. Though I think a CLK55 would suit Sporty well.
Manuals are a requirement.
Drove a Prelude. It was beat. Bad wheel bearing. Hard to gauge the power as the A/C was on and the dude + my wife were in it. It felt slow though. He had a binder full of service docs though and he works at a dealership, so it's well maintained. Bad thing is it has some damage on the left quarter panel and an exhaust. Not really a good highway car. I need to drive one with a stock exhaust and good bearings to see if that one is worth getting + fixing.
Just lease a Fiat 500 Pop.
Sporty's going to get another Maxima :facepalm:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 23, 2013, 10:24:45 AM
Manuals are a requirement.
Oh, you guys...
(http://cdn.carthrottle.com/wp-content/uploads/gravity_forms/1-c2beafbab863f65f6ba7e74b41a63a8f/2013/07/Buy-a-stickshift.jpg)
Quote from: HotRodPilot on July 23, 2013, 10:44:40 AM
Sporty's going to get another Maxima :facepalm:
:lol:
Seriously given the available options I am kind of stunned that Maxima or Prelude are really being seriously considered.
330ci ftw,
Seriously. 10K is a lot on the used market.
Heres the other problem a lot of you folks in big cities aren't considering
Most of the cars I'm looking at are far away. That M3 (that got away) was 75 miles away. There's jack shit here. And I don't really want to drive 100, 200 miles to check out a car I might not even want.
10K is a lot in a used market where there are a lot of cars. When the pickings are slim prices go up and shit's just not available. There aren't any manual 328iS's within 200 miles of me for example. Nobody is picking up their phone or returning emails either. I'm getting frustrated.
There's a Z 11 miles from me. I'm gonna go see what it's about.
Quote from: Vinsanity on July 23, 2013, 11:14:33 AM
Oh, you guys...
(http://cdn.carthrottle.com/wp-content/uploads/gravity_forms/1-c2beafbab863f65f6ba7e74b41a63a8f/2013/07/Buy-a-stickshift.jpg)
I do that everyday. Don't see why having a stick is a problem. :huh:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 23, 2013, 10:01:48 AM
There's the wimmer I remember, representing mercedes benz. Thanks for not suggesting he get a 1964 caprice classic brouham deluxe starliner tourer.
:lol:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 23, 2013, 10:01:48 AMBack on point, If manual isn't a requirement I'd seriously shop the older AMG options(C32/C43/E55 etc).
Those old AMG's are really really nice cars that are very reasonable on the used market.
I think even a manual-diehard would appreciate an automatic daily driver with performance to boot in his garage. :ohyeah:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on July 23, 2013, 01:24:24 PM
I think even a manual-diehard would appreciate an automatic daily driver with performance to boot in his garage. :ohyeah:
Not me. Unless you can't get a manual at all with the particular car. The only way I want an auto is if I've got a truck.
Quote from: Onslaught on July 23, 2013, 01:12:14 PM
I do that everyday. Don't see why having a stick is a problem. :huh:
If I didn't have to commute in stop-and-go traffic, I would still have an s2000.
Sure, I could've put up with it, but why? It's the one thing that makes a miserable experience in an otherwise fun car.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on July 23, 2013, 01:24:24 PM
I think even a manual-diehard would appreciate an automatic daily driver with performance to boot in his garage. :ohyeah:
Think again! :dance:
Quote from: Vinsanity on July 23, 2013, 01:33:19 PM
If I didn't have to commute in stop-and-go traffic, I would still have an s2000.
Sure, I could've put up with it, but why? It's the one thing that makes a miserable experience in an otherwise fun car.
Because, all of a sudden, having an automatic in traffic makes it a party? It's miserable in an automatic too, I don't see the difference.
Quote from: Raza on July 23, 2013, 01:39:00 PM
Because, all of a sudden, having an automatic in traffic makes it a party? It's miserable in an automatic too, I don't see the difference.
Well to be fair, it's a number of factors. Staring at the ass-end of a minivan in an s2k was literally like trying to see around a brick wall or a building. Not having to constantly work the clutch does help considerably.
Quote from: Vinsanity on July 23, 2013, 02:13:28 PM
Well to be fair, it's a number of factors. Staring at the ass-end of a minivan in an s2k was literally like trying to see around a brick wall or a building. Not having to constantly work the clutch does help considerably.
Maybe you're just getting old. That's okay. It happens to all of us.
Personally, I wouldn't trade a little bit less misery for those sublime moments.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on July 23, 2013, 01:24:24 PM
:lol:
I think even a manual-diehard would appreciate an automatic daily driver with performance to boot in his garage. :ohyeah:
I'm a pretty die hard manual car guy, and I was shopping C55's and C32's for awhile. Probably would have ended up with one but didn't have much(if any) to choose from.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 23, 2013, 10:24:45 AM
Manuals are a requirement.
Drove a Prelude. It was beat. Bad wheel bearing. Hard to gauge the power as the A/C was on and the dude + my wife were in it. It felt slow though. He had a binder full of service docs though and he works at a dealership, so it's well maintained. Bad thing is it has some damage on the left quarter panel and an exhaust. Not really a good highway car. I need to drive one with a stock exhaust and good bearings to see if that one is worth getting + fixing.
Dude, "A/C was on and dude and my wife were in it, so it was slow" is a bunch of BS. My Evo doesn't turn into a dog because I have a few buddies in the car. Unless he was a 400 lb samoen and your wife pushing a size 30 then that ain't the reason it's slow. It's either slow to begin with(probably) or the thing just plain runs like shit(also likely).
Quote from: Raza on July 23, 2013, 02:22:37 PM
Maybe you're just getting old. That's okay. It happens to all of us.
Personally, I wouldn't trade a little bit less misery for those sublime moments.
Sadly, those sublime moments disappeared once I moved out of my parents house into my own place. Nice place, great area, but no more fun driving roads on the way home
Quote from: Vinsanity on July 23, 2013, 02:47:26 PM
Sadly, those sublime moments disappeared once I moved out of my parents house into my own place. Nice place, great area, but no more fun driving roads on the way home
I drive from a city on the highway to a ghetto. I still have fun. I fall back to you just getting old. :devil:
0 for 2. This Z felt weak and had a comical amount of tire roar. I think it might have had an exhaust or it might have just been a POS. The clutch engagement was typical Nissan crap.... 12" of travel and 1/2" of engagement. The cabin was a little cavernous as well; not like roomy but like dark and poorly lit. Other than that I thought it was decent. I liked the steering feel and even on 19s it rode decently, around here at least. Punch wise it honestly wasn't much better than the Prelude which I'm guessing means it was in really bad shape. PASS.
I am just going to take a break from looking tomorrow and focus on work. Today was a waste. People are sniping the Maximas but I'd rather one of those than one of the POS I drove today. I need to get my mitts on a Bimmer.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 23, 2013, 02:38:40 PM
Dude, "A/C was on and dude and my wife were in it, so it was slow" is a bunch of BS. My Evo doesn't turn into a dog because I have a few buddies in the car. Unless he was a 400 lb samoen and your wife pushing a size 30 then that ain't the reason it's slow. It's either slow to begin with(probably) or the thing just plain runs like shit(also likely).
Your Evo has torque and IIRC is modded.
I don't know. I think the bike might also have ruined me. These cars weren't SLOW, but they felt closer to my wife's car than my bike. I can't imagine the Bimmers, especially the non-Ms, being much better. Even the E36 M3 is "only" a mid to low 14 second car, which is quick but not "wowowowie". Prob not much better than the Z in the shape it was.
Yea I am fucking wiped. I am hungover and sleep deprived as well. Not dealing with this till Thursday unless I get a call about something I want tomorrow. Sucks
Quote from: Raza on July 23, 2013, 03:13:40 PM
I drive from a city on the highway to a ghetto. I still have fun. I fall back to you just getting old. :devil:
I stand by my assertion that a Caddy is better to drive to the ghetto than a 2-seat roadster.
Yea you can bulletproof a Cadillac
(http://cimg.carsforsale.com/272277/AA779A15-B08B-4DAA-A28D-6F3E90EFACAB_4.jpg)
http://www.atlanticautosalesnc.com/2004_Pontiac_Pontiac_Garner_NC_200075498.veh (http://www.atlanticautosalesnc.com/2004_Pontiac_Pontiac_Garner_NC_200075498.veh)
I'd run a VIN# report on it, though. It's much cheaper than the other GTO's in the area.
That thing has had a crash at some point. Headlight has been replaced and the hood is crinkled.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on July 23, 2013, 09:34:54 AM
Get a C208 Mercedes CLK55 AMG! :ohyeah:
(http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/gallery/MERCEDESBENZCLK55AMG-C208--2395_2.jpg)
:wub:
Guy in my building has a GTO. Too heavy for what it is. I wrote off the 540i but there are a few really close by. There's one just on the other side of the river, 6 spd of course, only $3300. I will give them a drive and see what that's about.
You're impossible.
Quote from: 2o6 on July 23, 2013, 05:59:56 PM
You're impossible.
My zip code is 28031. $10K limit. Post some links, I have probably already called them.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=28031&endYear=2014&showcaseOwnerId=54775638&startYear=1981&makeCode1=MAZDA&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=25&maxPrice=11000&mmt=%5BMAZDA%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=344342056&listingIndex=12&Log=0 (http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=28031&endYear=2014&showcaseOwnerId=54775638&startYear=1981&makeCode1=MAZDA&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=25&maxPrice=11000&mmt=%5BMAZDA%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=344342056&listingIndex=12&Log=0)
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=28031&endYear=2014&showcaseOwnerId=54775638&startYear=1981&makeCode1=MAZDA&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&maxPrice=11000&mmt=%5BMAZDA%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=345334253&listingIndex=25&Log=0 (http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=28031&endYear=2014&showcaseOwnerId=54775638&startYear=1981&makeCode1=MAZDA&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&maxPrice=11000&mmt=%5BMAZDA%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=345334253&listingIndex=25&Log=0)
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=28031&endYear=2014&showcaseOwnerId=100009788&startYear=1981&makeCode1=BMW&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&maxPrice=11000&mmt=%5BBMW%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=350365864&listingIndex=1&Log=0 (http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=28031&endYear=2014&showcaseOwnerId=100009788&startYear=1981&makeCode1=BMW&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&maxPrice=11000&mmt=%5BBMW%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=350365864&listingIndex=1&Log=0)
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=28031&endYear=2014&showcaseOwnerId=100009788&startYear=1981&makeCode1=BMW&firstRecord=26&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&maxPrice=11000&mmt=%5BBMW%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=345266349&listingIndex=21&Log=0 (http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=28031&endYear=2014&showcaseOwnerId=100009788&startYear=1981&makeCode1=BMW&firstRecord=26&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&maxPrice=11000&mmt=%5BBMW%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=345266349&listingIndex=21&Log=0)
^All are too big and/or too heavy, dumbass
That 330Ci looks OK. I saw that before. Z3 & MSM are alright but I am just not crazy about convertibles. I might check out the Z3M though. Maybe I can talk them down. MS6 is bad news (look up Mazda carbon build up- same reason I passed on everything VW 2.0T related) and over 200 miles away.. :wtf: @ a 13 year old $9000 MIATA. I don't care how many miles it has. Note the Miatas are the only cars in the budget as well cmon guys
Quote from: Vinsanity on July 23, 2013, 03:58:04 PM
I stand by my assertion that a Caddy is better to drive to the ghetto than a 2-seat roadster.
Nope. When I'm stopped at a light next to an Escalade in the hood, who do you think is going to get carjacked? The guy in the blinged out car that more than 10% of people know how to drive.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 23, 2013, 05:59:16 PM
Guy in my building has a GTO. Too heavy for what it is. I wrote off the 540i but there are a few really close by. There's one just on the other side of the river, 6 spd of course, only $3300. I will give them a drive and see what that's about.
Eh, viewed with its competition, the GTO weighs a little more than a contemporary Mustang, but less than a current Charger or Challenger.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 23, 2013, 08:10:32 PM
That 330Ci looks OK. I saw that before. Z3 & MSM are alright but I am just not crazy about convertibles. I might check out the Z3M though. Maybe I can talk them down. MS6 is bad news (look up Mazda carbon build up- same reason I passed on everything VW 2.0T related) and over 200 miles away.. :wtf: @ a 13 year old $9000 MIATA. I don't care how many miles it has. Note the Miatas are the only cars in the budget as well cmon guys
You can't negotiate <$1k off what they're asking? :confused:
I give up.
That 330Ci is a ZHP, it's already $2K under Blue Book, thanks for playing though, Jimmy tell him what he could have won.
Like I said I will check it out but lol @ you
Here's what you need......
(http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2013/04/07/01/19/2001_cadillac_catera_4_dr_std_sedan-pic-3115972410758186068.jpeg)
:ohyeah:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 23, 2013, 08:56:15 PM
That 330Ci is a ZHP, it's already $2K under Blue Book, thanks for playing though, Jimmy tell him what he could have won.
Like I said I will check it out but lol @ you
Something looks off about that 330Ci, I'd almost say it was involved in some sort of front end collision. Then again, I'm basing this solely off of pictures, so I could be dead wrong.
Also, hell yeah to that M roadster. It has the S52 instead of the S54, though.
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 23, 2013, 09:19:52 PM
Something looks off about that 330Ci, I'd almost say it was involved in some sort of front end collision. Then again, I'm basing this solely off of pictures, so I could be dead wrong.
Either the hood or passenger side fender has been replaced.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 23, 2013, 03:46:05 PM
I don't know. I think the bike might also have ruined me. These cars weren't SLOW, but they felt closer to my wife's car than my bike. I can't imagine the Bimmers, especially the non-Ms, being much better. Even the E36 M3 is "only" a mid to low 14 second car, which is quick but not "wowowowie". Prob not much better than the Z in the shape it was.
You're not gonna find anything close to the bike.
That doesn't mean settle for a Maxima, though. ;)
Quote from: Onslaught on July 23, 2013, 01:30:24 PM
Not me. Unless you can't get a manual at all with the particular car. The only way I want an auto is if I've got a truck.
Everyone is different! :ohyeah:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 23, 2013, 02:34:33 PM
I'm a pretty die hard manual car guy, and I was shopping C55's and C32's for awhile. Probably would have ended up with one but didn't have much(if any) to choose from.
I'm waiting for that thread in 2032 when you say, "Bought a C55 AMG!" :lol:
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 23, 2013, 09:19:52 PM
Something looks off about that 330Ci, I'd almost say it was involved in some sort of front end collision. Then again, I'm basing this solely off of pictures, so I could be dead wrong.
It is definitely lowered... judging by the difference in front and rear ride heights possibly poorly. Those wheels are not stock either. It might not be a ZHP, but it has the ZHP front bumper. Someone spent some money. I have had bad experiences buying other people's projects. Trade in projects (like the Z I drove) are even worse because often they trade in because they are in over their head. Still though I think it's the closest 330 so I will check it out just for that alone. Some new things popped up today so maybe something good will come up in the next few days.
I found it. 04 Z, Grand Touring, 1 owner, $9K. White w/soap film pearl on gray leather. It has some miles on it but it was definitely well taken care of. Drove a million times better than the other one I saw, had no mods, brand new tires too. Gonna go and just pay cash for it once I show it to wifey.
I don't get the hate for the Z. It's def not a Miata, but then a Miata is not a bike. Z is a decent GT car. It's nowhere near perfect- engine is coarse sounding, clutch still sucks, controls have unnatural heft- but it seems like it's in its element where I will realistically be driving it most- the highway. If I need more engagement I will jump on the bike. I don't even think I will mod it much. I would like a freer flowing exhaust but I would def want to quiet it down at the same time. I'll see how the stereo sounds. I would def like to get the 06+ lights too. And maybe the Nismo V2 front bumper. Other than that it's fine, at least off that first drive. Hopefully the search is over.
Someone in the lot had a notchback 99 C5. Bright red on black with C6 Z06 rims. I left a note and dude said he'd get back to me, but judging by the KBB ($14K from the dealer and too old to finance) it's probably not gonna happen. I do really like that notchback style though, prob the only Vette I would get aside from an actual C5 Z06. Seems like those have begun to bounce value wise too...
Awesome man. Congrats.
Z as in 350Z? Great cars. Looks great in white. The "hate" is relegated to so few it's a non discussion.
Man, the Nissan FM rules the 'SPIN!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 24, 2013, 11:09:26 AM
I found it. 04 Z, Grand Touring, 1 owner, $9K. White w/soap film pearl on gray leather. It has some miles on it but it was definitely well taken care of. Drove a million times better than the other one I saw, had no mods, brand new tires too. Gonna go and just pay cash for it once I show it to wifey.
I don't get the hate for the Z. It's def not a Miata, but then a Miata is not a bike. Z is a decent GT car. It's nowhere near perfect- engine is coarse sounding, clutch still sucks, controls have unnatural heft- but it seems like it's in its element where I will realistically be driving it most- the highway. If I need more engagement I will jump on the bike. I don't even think I will mod it much. I would like a freer flowing exhaust but I would def want to quiet it down at the same time. I'll see how the stereo sounds. I would def like to get the 06+ lights too. And maybe the Nismo V2 front bumper. Other than that it's fine, at least off that first drive. Hopefully the search is over.
Someone in the lot had a notchback 99 C5. Bright red on black with C6 Z06 rims. I left a note and dude said he'd get back to me, but judging by the KBB ($14K from the dealer and too old to finance) it's probably not gonna happen. I do really like that notchback style though, prob the only Vette I would get aside from an actual C5 Z06. Seems like those have begun to bounce value wise too...
Miata's not a bike, that's true. Bike's not a helicopter. Helicopter's not a plane. Plane's not a ship. Ship's not a house. House's not a sky fortress. Sky fortress isn't a plantain. Plantain's not a banana. Banana's not an apple. Apple's not a pear. Pear's not a pineapple. Pineapple's not a desk. Desk's not a bottle. Bottle's not a Z. Z's not a driver's car.
Quote from: Raza on July 24, 2013, 11:54:43 AM
Miata's not a bike, that's true. Bike's not a helicopter. Helicopter's not a plane. Plane's not a ship. Ship's not a house. House's not a sky fortress. Sky fortress isn't a plantain. Plantain's not a banana. Banana's not an apple. Apple's not a pear. Pear's not a pineapple. Pineapple's not a desk. Desk's not a bottle. Bottle's not a Z. Z's not a driver's car.
"Main things I want are RWD, ~mid 14 sec or less quarter mile, <3200lbs, <$10K price, and some level of long distance comfort"
If I feel the need to thread asphalt needles I have a much more precise tool. I get cars like the Miata or Ferberzers for folks who need everything in one package. Me personally though I like to have choice and not have to compromise. I have wifey's car to haul shit, hopefully this thing for long hauls, and then the bike for when I want to hit 60 in under 4 seconds. I think it's a good lineup and was my plan all along
Quote from: GoCougs on July 24, 2013, 11:54:15 AM
Z as in 350Z? Great cars. Looks great in white. The "hate" is relegated to so few it's a non discussion.
Man, the Nissan FM rules the 'SPIN!
Different strokes for different folks. Believe me if I could afford a Z3M/Z4M hardtop I would have went that way. Maybe next go round. Z is good enough for right now and actually beat my expectations from how folks here talk about it. You could def do a lot worse than the FM platform.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 24, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
Awesome man. Congrats.
Thanks. Ink isn't dry yet but hopefully it will be soon. Waiting on wifey to get back so we can check it out and finalize everything....
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 24, 2013, 12:03:27 PM
"Main things I want are RWD, ~mid 14 sec or less quarter mile, <3200lbs, <$10K price, and some level of long distance comfort"
If I feel the need to thread asphalt needles I have a much more precise tool. I get cars like the Miata or Ferberzers for folks who need everything in one package. Me personally though I like to have choice and not have to compromise. I have wifey's car to haul shit, hopefully this thing for long hauls, and then the bike for when I want to hit 60 in under 4 seconds. I think it's a good lineup and was my plan all along
The 350Z's a spec sheet, not a car, unfortunately. It's a car I always want to love, but never can. As I recall, you were the one ridiculing me when I was considering one.
If you're getting a car that's great on paper, why not a first generation TT 225? Better looking inside and out, better quality interior, easily modified engine, and about as fun as a 350Z, though less capable. Sure, it's not RWD, but neither is the Maxima or Prelude.
Quote from: Raza on July 24, 2013, 12:44:04 PM
The 350Z's a spec sheet, not a car, unfortunately. It's a car I always want to love, but never can. As I recall, you were the one ridiculing me when I was considering one.
If you're getting a car that's great on paper, why not a first generation TT 225? Better looking inside and out, better quality interior, easily modified engine, and about as fun as a 350Z, though less capable. Sure, it's not RWD, but neither is the Maxima or Prelude.
I made fun of you for looking into the Z because based on your history I knew you would hate it. Especially the heavier bubble butt roadster. It's not the kind of car you go mountain road dancing in at all, which I know is your M.O. I know I go on about weight and performance being overrated... but the Z doesn't feel that fast to me; its performance is well matched for the street. Admittedly again it's not very lively around town or at low speeds but again... bike.
Which brings me to the TT. I am not sure what it has going for it on paper. It's about as heavy as the Z, but more nose heavy (though they did add a counterweight in the rear to balance it out). It has a lot of serious design & reliability problems. And, on paper at least, it's even more dull than the Z, w/less power and less steering feel. The only thing it has going for it is its looks, which I'm personally not crazy about. If I were to go the VWAG route for my personal car it would have to be with an engine besides their turbo 4s. An R32 or the TT VR6. But those are trademark nose heavy VWAGs. I think I like VWAG's mainstream models more... if not for their relentless design issues I could buy in 100%.
Plus even if I wanted one, there aren't any within 100 miles of me. Probably because people down here don't give a shit about AWD
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 24, 2013, 01:26:35 PM
I made fun of you for looking into the Z because based on your history I knew you would hate it.
Oh, the irony... :facepalm:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 24, 2013, 12:03:27 PM
"Main things I want are RWD, ~mid 14 sec or less quarter mile, <3200lbs, <$10K price, and some level of long distance comfort"
If I feel the need to thread asphalt needles I have a much more precise tool. I get cars like the Miata or Ferberzers for folks who need everything in one package. Me personally though I like to have choice and not have to compromise. I have wifey's car to haul shit, hopefully this thing for long hauls, and then the bike for when I want to hit 60 in under 4 seconds. I think it's a good lineup and was my plan all along
Different strokes for different folks. Believe me if I could afford a Z3M/Z4M hardtop I would have went that way. Maybe next go round. Z is good enough for right now and actually beat my expectations from how folks here talk about it. You could def do a lot worse than the FM platform.Thanks. Ink isn't dry yet but hopefully it will be soon. Waiting on wifey to get back so we can check it out and finalize everything....
Motorcycles suck for turning and braking.
I don't know your situation, but, IMO, buying a relatively high performance, oldish, high mileage car on a budget when you have a family is dumb. Get something cheap and reliable for the short term until you get nice and settled. Then buy a money pit or a new Cayman or something. Besides, wifeys turn into mommys pretty quick.
Another thing that sucks about buying on a budget and scouring used cars is that you'll never be happy with your choice. If you had just waited one more month, if you had just spent an extra $1000, if you had just drove those extra 50 miles you would have gotten xyz better car, etc. All stuff that would drive me crazy.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 24, 2013, 02:32:16 PM
Motorcycles suck for turning and braking.
On street tires it's a wash
I got the Z. I like it
Hell yeah, I've always been a fan of the 350Z.
But please don't get the V2 bumper.
Quote from: Xer0 on July 24, 2013, 05:53:02 PM
I don't know your situation, but, IMO, buying a relatively high performance, oldish, high mileage car on a budget when you have a family is dumb. Get something cheap and reliable for the short term until you get nice and settled. Then buy a money pit or a new Cayman or something. Besides, wifeys turn into mommys pretty quick.
Another thing that sucks about buying on a budget and scouring used cars is that you'll never be happy with your choice. If you had just waited one more month, if you had just spent an extra $1000, if you had just drove those extra 50 miles you would have gotten xyz better car, etc. All stuff that would drive me crazy.
We have a few years before we have a family. And unless I am super duper rich I don't think I will ever buy a brand new car. Everyone has a budget, not sure what your second point is.
Pics! Raza will be offended but there's something deeper there that has nothing to do with the 350Z.
Quote from: Xer0 on July 24, 2013, 05:53:02 PM
I don't know your situation, but, IMO, buying a relatively high performance, oldish, high mileage car on a budget when you have a family is dumb. Get something cheap and reliable for the short term until you get nice and settled. Then buy a money pit or a new Cayman or something. Besides, wifeys turn into mommys pretty quick.
Another thing that sucks about buying on a budget and scouring used cars is that you'll never be happy with your choice. If you had just waited one more month, if you had just spent an extra $1000, if you had just drove those extra 50 miles you would have gotten xyz better car, etc. All stuff that would drive me crazy.
Disagree. There'd be zero issue if he bought an Accord on an $8000 budget. It's just him and the wife, so why not a sporty car? Like you said, wifeys turn into mommys. Have fun as a couple while you can. Your 2nd point is nonsense. Buying on a budget is a no-brainer, and I'm not seeing why you'll never be happy with the car you bought on that budget.
What Xer0 is basically saying is your dollar goes further with a more normal car - a $9,000 2008 Civic w/50k miles is going to be much cheaper/easier to own than a $9,000 1999 M5 w/175k miles - and it's not a bad idea to buy the Civic now and buckle down for a few years and THEN buy something more sporty, but newer. I think he's completely right. The 350Z is pretty plebeian though so if the miles aren't insane and it was taken care of it probably won't be as cheap/easy to own as said low mileage newer Civic but it ain't going to be a nightmare like the said M5.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 24, 2013, 06:18:14 PM
What Xer0 is basically saying is your dollar goes further with a more normal car - a $9,000 2008 Civic w/50k miles is going to be much cheaper/easier to own than a $9,000 1999 M5 w/175k miles - and it's not a bad idea to buy the Civic now and buckle down for a few years and THEN buy something more sporty, but newer. I think he's completely right. The 350Z is pretty plebeian though so if the miles aren't insane and it was taken care of it probably won't be as cheap/easy to own as said low mileage newer Civic but it ain't going to be a nightmare like the said M5.
Yeah, an M5 would be a stupid buy. That's not what he bought though. He got a reliable sporty car for him and his wife to enjoy while they are still a couple, on a budget he could afford. Your last sentence agrees with me more than it does Xero.
One more point: a 2004 Nissan 350Z has pretty much hit depreciation bottom at $7-8000 (unless Sporty trashes it). In 2-3 yrs it might still be worth $6-7000, versus half that for an '08 Civic.
Yea my car retails for ~11-12K and I got it for 9. I don't think it was a bad deal.
Window motor went out on the way home :cry: Very common problem + cheap/easy fix I will deal with tomorrow, just a pain that it happened right at that moment. It was working fine earlier in the day, I did my due diligence. The 03-04 OEM window motors were trash, the new ones are much better.
I went to pump gas after I left the dealership, some middle aged lady asked me if I was single :wtf:
Congrats, I like the newer z's throw some pics up when you can.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 24, 2013, 05:54:16 PM
On street tires it's a wash
Not true. When I had my SVT Focus I would catch up to and pass superbikes on twisty mountain roads. They would catch up and sometimes pass on the straightaways (most of the time they don't pass because they know they will just have to pull to the side to let me pass after the next bend), but I would walk away in the corners. Even my buddy with a Honda CBR600RR couldn't keep up in the corners.
They prob suck as riders or didn't want to push 100%. Bikes can generate the same lateral grip as cars and can outbrake cars as well. There is just the whole self-preservation thing. You push too far in a car, esp a FWD car, tires squeal. You push too hard on a bike (on the street) you die. Plus there is way more technique to getting 100% out of a bike than a car. Car you just turn the wheel more. Bike is way more involved.
Congrats dude! We demand pics. :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 24, 2013, 09:08:36 PM
They prob suck as riders or didn't want to push 100%. Bikes can generate the same lateral grip as cars and can outbrake cars as well. There is just the whole self-preservation thing. You push too far in a car, esp a FWD car, tires squeal. You push too hard on a bike (on the street) you die. Plus there is way more technique to getting 100% out of a bike than a car. Car you just turn the wheel more. Bike is way more involved.
Then it's not awash is it. If the road is table top smooth and as clean as an operating room and the rider has balls of steel, then I can see it, but otherwise bikes suck compared to cars in cornering and braking.
Excellent! Miatas and G37s are the only cars that anybody should ever buy, ever. 0-60 in 3.1s, really safe for the onramps.
(congrats!)
Quote from: SVT666 on July 24, 2013, 09:19:40 PM
Then it's not awash is it. If the road is table top smooth and as clean as an operating room and the rider has balls of steel, then I can see it, but otherwise bikes suck compared to cars in cornering and braking.
It depends on who's the better driver/rider. So it is a wash because it's easier to be a good car driver than a good bike rider.
Pics coming. I have to fix the window regulator and the subwoofer first (both easy fixes)
And yea thecarnut said it. On a track with a rider + driver of equal skills things will match up. If you put someone's grandma in a LaFerrari that doesn't make it a slow car all the time.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 24, 2013, 09:19:40 PM
Then it's not awash is it. If the road is table top smooth and as clean as an operating room and the rider has balls of steel, then I can see it, but otherwise bikes suck compared to cars in cornering and braking.
Compared to vehicles 99% of the public drive bikes (especially race replicas) outperform cars in EVERY WAY!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on July 24, 2013, 09:53:49 PM
Compared to vehicles 99% of the public drive bikes (especially race replicas) outperform cars in EVERY WAY!
On tracks, sure. But not on real roads.
Quote from: Rockraven on July 24, 2013, 06:28:57 PM
Yeah, an M5 would be a stupid buy. That's not what he bought though. He got a reliable sporty car for him and his wife to enjoy while they are still a couple, on a budget he could afford. Your last sentence agrees with me more than it does Xero.
One more point: a 2004 Nissan 350Z has pretty much hit depreciation bottom at $7-8000 (unless Sporty trashes it). In 2-3 yrs it might still be worth $6-7000, versus half that for an '08 Civic.
Good point about the depreciation curve...
Quote from: SVT666 on July 24, 2013, 10:24:23 PM
On tracks, sure. But not on real roads.
Naw, hes right. (Standard and sport) bikes are blindingly quicker than pretty much anything on the street. A "lowly" 600 runs a mid 10 second quarter mile with a heavy bias towards street speeds (i.e. they only top out around 170 whereas a car that fast would prob top out at 200). Plus people who can ride can place bikes way easier than a 6' wide car. Bikes are way faster than cars but counterintuitively their performance is way more accessible/usable.
:confused:
Even on super bikes, I haven't met one on a track that could hang with a car. They can theoretically pull a little over a G like a car, but I'll be damned if I've ever seen one do it.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 24, 2013, 06:09:51 PM
Pics! Raza will be offended but there's something deeper there that has nothing to do with the 350Z.
:rolleyes:
Sporty, it's a great looking car, and I hope it does you well.
Good pick for that kind if money.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 24, 2013, 09:08:36 PM
They prob suck as riders or didn't want to push 100%. Bikes can generate the same lateral grip as cars and can outbrake cars as well. There is just the whole self-preservation thing. You push too far in a car, esp a FWD car, tires squeal. You push too hard on a bike (on the street) you die. Plus there is way more technique to getting 100% out of a bike than a car. Car you just turn the wheel more. Bike is way more involved.
Pretty common experience. I used to catch motorcycles a lot in my Jetta on the windy roads outside of State College.
Quote from: Onslaught on July 25, 2013, 07:34:41 AM
Good pick for that kind if money.
For what he's looking for, it's a pretty good choice, I agree. Reliable, good looking, practical for a two-seater, comfortable, and with decent gas mileage.
Quote from: Raza on July 25, 2013, 07:36:46 AM
Pretty common experience. I used to catch motorcycles a lot in my Jetta on the windy roads outside of State College.
Well, it's a fucking jetta....what did you expect. Cut the riders some slack, there are only a few rare Ducati's that would even be a match for a jetta.
Edit:
Then of course there is your unmatchable skill level as a driver, forgot about that.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 25, 2013, 05:19:25 AM
Naw, hes right. (Standard and sport) bikes are blindingly quicker than pretty much anything on the street. A "lowly" 600 runs a mid 10 second quarter mile with a heavy bias towards street speeds (i.e. they only top out around 170 whereas a car that fast would prob top out at 200). Plus people who can ride can place bikes way easier than a 6' wide car. Bikes are way faster than cars but counterintuitively their performance is way more accessible/usable.
Sure....in a straight line cars are no match for a bike. But unless you're on a track, a car will walk on a bike when there's corners.
Quote from: Rockraven on July 24, 2013, 06:11:07 PM
Disagree. There'd be zero issue if he bought an Accord on an $8000 budget. It's just him and the wife, so why not a sporty car? Like you said, wifeys turn into mommys. Have fun as a couple while you can. Your 2nd point is nonsense. Buying on a budget is a no-brainer, and I'm not seeing why you'll never be happy with the car you bought on that budget.
My point isn't that it's on a budget, it's that it's on relatively small budget in a not so hot used car market. Hes mentioned plenty of times how far anything half desirable is and the distance plus budget really limits what you can buy. I'm glad that he ended up with a relatively newish 350, but in the beginning he was looking at 15+ year old BMWs.
Congrats on the car, definitely need to post pics. :ohyeah:
Quote from: SVT666 on July 25, 2013, 08:19:06 AM
Sure....in a straight line cars are no match for a bike. But unless you're on a track, a car will walk on a bike when there's corners.
Meh... looking into it, on a track too.
Car vs Bike (Nissan GT-R vs Ducati) by autocar.co.uk - part two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Man0X0bf8vk#ws)
But they can def pull a g, even more depending on the track/road.
Fastest motorcycle lap of the Nürburgring. 7m10s BTG Yamaha YZF R1. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inc9cGasgsA#)
But Im not sure why we are discussing this anyway. I don't really care what is faster. Bike is cheaper to build up and do track days on and I enjoy riding it. Z is just for taking wifey places and eventually getting to work.
How come no pics?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 25, 2013, 07:41:24 AM
Well, it's a fucking jetta....what did you expect. Cut the riders some slack, there are only a few rare Ducati's that would even be a match for a jetta.
Edit:
Then of course there is your unmatchable skill level as a driver, forgot about that.
:muffin:
Quote from: GoCougs on July 25, 2013, 08:55:15 AM
How come no pics?
Its dirty
(http://i.imgur.com/5RiLM0i.jpg)
:clap:
It's white! I don't really like white, but the 350Z is one of the few shapes where white works. What trim level is it, do you know?
Grand Touring! I think it has every option but navigation. Blessing and a curse. Bose system SUCKS! I need to fix the sub and figure out a way to get aux in. I have a spare radio but of course Bose has a proprietary EQ curve and connection. This should be interesting
LOL yeah Bose blows.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 25, 2013, 12:31:08 PM
Grand Touring! I think it has every option but navigation. Blessing and a curse. Bose system SUCKS! I need to fix the sub and figure out a way to get aux in. I have a spare radio but of course Bose has a proprietary EQ curve and connection. This should be interesting
Speakers are all unique sizes too, so finding replacements is next to impossible. I hate Bose, but I can't change any of the system in the G because everything is unique including the fucking resistance.
Quote from: Raza on July 25, 2013, 09:46:38 AM
It's white! I don't really like white, but the 350Z is one of the few shapes where white works. What trim level is it, do you know?
I dig the 350Z in white. I like white on a lot of cars including my G.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 25, 2013, 08:50:55 AM
Meh... looking into it, on a track too.
Car vs Bike (Nissan GT-R vs Ducati) by autocar.co.uk - part two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Man0X0bf8vk#ws)
But they can def pull a g, even more depending on the track/road.
Fastest motorcycle lap of the Nürburgring. 7m10s BTG Yamaha YZF R1. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inc9cGasgsA#)
But Im not sure why we are discussing this anyway. I don't really care what is faster. Bike is cheaper to build up and do track days on and I enjoy riding it. Z is just for taking wifey places and eventually getting to work.
No arguments from me here. Those are on a track with professional riders. I even said as much in my post.
Man, that is a good looking car. Congrats and best of luck with it.
I'm so proud of you!! :praise: it's not a maxima!!!!!!!!
The pics don't do it justice. The soapy pearl effect is awesome. Wifey loves it.
I found a cheap fix for the radio, though I am not sure it fixes the EQ. For $50 bucks I am guessing no. I am going to give that a try tomorrow.
Needs some maintenance items as well. I am pretty sure the rear diff bushings are shot but that is the case w/any high mileage Z. No rush/need to fix it now though I will need to eventually.
Fighting the mod bug.... I/H/E, suspension and replacing all the stereo stuff... I'd be OK with a sub in the stock Bose slot but of course it seems the size is proprietary. Me no worry. In time. I need to enjoy it as is.
just turbo it and don't waste time on stuff that won't add any power.
If I had a white car I would get either smoked or black wheels. Much better contrast than silver!
Now you need some nice wheels for it.
(http://dudesphotography.smugmug.com/photos/630016939_o4qDs-XL.jpg)
Blech. The stock wheels are nice.
Get a body kit, anything with the name "invader" or "shogun" in it.
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/3fmpHiB_ufE/maxresdefault.jpg)
O and yea I will eat crow on the motorcycle vs car thing. It's def way easier to reach max grip in a car, I found out today.
Shifting in this thing is weird. The bike shifts like a sequential box. Sometimes I don't even have to use the clutch in that. In this I have to really commit. Looking at acceleration vids these long shifts just seem to be the norm. I haven't driven a performance stickshift car in years so I kind of forgot how it was... but dare I say it... stickshift seems kind of old hat (!!!)
I mean for this car the 6MT is superior... but for my next car years away I might consider the sequential box. Maybe it just depends on the car
I know Mr H is going to have a field day with that...
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 25, 2013, 01:38:19 PM
just turbo it and don't waste time on stuff that won't add any power.
Nah I think it's OK. Turbocharging opens up a whole bunch of other issues. I'd rather put that money towards the next car or something else. These mods would just give it a little extra bark and bite.
Adding intake and exhaust on a N/A car without performing a ECU tune/modification is pointless and a waste of money IMO. I'd do the exhaust for audible purposes but it won't be doing much else.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 25, 2013, 01:27:21 PM
The pics don't do it justice. The soapy pearl effect is awesome. Wifey loves it.
I found a cheap fix for the radio, though I am not sure it fixes the EQ. For $50 bucks I am guessing no. I am going to give that a try tomorrow.
Needs some maintenance items as well. I am pretty sure the rear diff bushings are shot but that is the case w/any high mileage Z. No rush/need to fix it now though I will need to eventually.
Fighting the mod bug.... I/H/E, suspension and replacing all the stereo stuff... I'd be OK with a sub in the stock Bose slot but of course it seems the size is proprietary. Me no worry. In time. I need to enjoy it as is.
Not only is the size proprietary, but the watts are low and the impedance is 0.5. Good luck finding a sub that will do that without being another Bose sub. From now on, if a car has a Bose system it's a deal breaker for me. The stereo is too damn important for me to not be able to replace it.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 25, 2013, 02:15:44 PM
Adding intake and exhaust on a N/A car without performing a ECU tune/modification is pointless and a waste of money IMO. I'd do the exhaust for audible purposes but it won't be doing much else.
At best you'll gain 5-8 hp without an ECU tune to take advantage of the extra air and reduced backpressure. Those mods combined with a tune can yield some impressive results though.
I didn't have any issues fixing up the bose system in my miata.
I just pulled the head unit out, the amp behind the dash as well as the speakers from the doors and just threw them in the trash. Pretty smooth fix actually.
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 25, 2013, 02:04:08 PM
Blech. The stock wheels are nice.
Agree there's better wheel choices (posted pic from a quick image search), but the stock wheels are very bland, and silver doesn't work with a white car, IMHO.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 25, 2013, 02:21:26 PM
I didn't have any issues fixing up the bose system in my miata.
I just pulled the head unit out, the amp behind the dash as well as the speakers from the doors and just threw them in the trash. Pretty smooth fix actually.
So no stereo at all?
Quote from: Rockraven on July 25, 2013, 02:26:12 PM
Agree there's better wheel choices (posted pic from a quick image search), but the stock wheels are very bland, and silver doesn't work with a white car, IMHO.
I would just get the stock wheels powdercoated gunmetal grey.
I have seen nice gains w/rudimentary mods on my old cars and no ECU tuning. My 1st Accord got a good 25-30HP at the fuel cut (not peak) from some mild but smart mods. My 2nd Maxima got a really nice low + midrange torque boost (~15-20lb-ft) from changing the exhaust. A lot of the untuned gains on these mods are documented. Sure it won't be like turning up the boost on a turbo car but bleh. Im not looking for 100 more WHP or even much at all TBH.
I don't like the stock wheels. They are the same ones on the same year Maxima. Pretty bland IMO. I'm not sure what color I would get though. Maybe something between stock silver and gunmetal. The 19" G35s look pretty nice
(http://www.350z-tech.com/forums/attachments/wheels-tires/36492d1157222633-any-pics-19-g35-wheels-350z-picture_021.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 25, 2013, 02:32:36 PM
I have seen nice gains w/rudimentary mods on my old cars and no ECU tuning. My 1st Accord got a good 25-30HP at the fuel cut (not peak) from some mild but smart mods. My 2nd Maxima got a really nice low + midrange torque boost (~15-20lb-ft) from changing the exhaust. A lot of the untuned gains on these mods are documented. Sure it won't be like turning up the boost on a turbo car but bleh. Im not looking for 100 more WHP or even much at all TBH.
I got an ECU tune for my SVT Focus and the difference between it and stock was night and day. The stock tune was terrible and it's well documented all over the net how bad it is. Peak horsepower and peak torque only went up about 3-5%, but midrange horsepower (3000-5000 rpm) had as much as a 22 hp increase, and the tune completely eliminated the surging that the SVT Focus was notorious for at cruising speeds.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 25, 2013, 02:13:50 PM
I know Mr H is going to have a field day with that...
With that? I could have a field day with this entire thread :lol:
But congrats on the car. Looks great in white. :thumbsup:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 25, 2013, 02:32:36 PM
I have seen nice gains w/rudimentary mods on my old cars and no ECU tuning. My 1st Accord got a good 25-30HP at the fuel cut (not peak) from some mild but smart mods. My 2nd Maxima got a really nice low + midrange torque boost (~15-20lb-ft) from changing the exhaust. A lot of the untuned gains on these mods are documented. Sure it won't be like turning up the boost on a turbo car but bleh. Im not looking for 100 more WHP or even much at all TBH.
I don't like the stock wheels. They are the same ones on the same year Maxima. Pretty bland IMO. I'm not sure what color I would get though. Maybe something between stock silver and gunmetal. The 19" G35s look pretty nice
(http://www.350z-tech.com/forums/attachments/wheels-tires/36492d1157222633-any-pics-19-g35-wheels-350z-picture_021.jpg)
Those would be great for the car. COuld probably get a used set of eBay for super cheap.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 25, 2013, 02:39:23 PM
I got an ECU tune for my SVT Focus and the difference between it and stock was night and day. The stock tune was terrible and it's well documented all over the net how bad it is. Peak horsepower and peak torque only went up about 3-5%, but midrange horsepower (3000-5000 rpm) had as much as a 22 hp increase, and the tune completely eliminated the surging that the SVT Focus was notorious for at cruising speeds.
I could use a tune on mine. Ford makes the engine hold onto revs between shifts for emissions reasons. It's really irritating and I blame my bad 3rd gear syncho on that stupid tune.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 25, 2013, 02:39:23 PM
I got an ECU tune for my SVT Focus and the difference between it and stock was night and day. The stock tune was terrible and it's well documented all over the net how bad it is. Peak horsepower and peak torque only went up about 3-5%, but midrange horsepower (3000-5000 rpm) had as much as a 22 hp increase, and the tune completely eliminated the surging that the SVT Focus was notorious for at cruising speeds.
Ford's shitty stock tunes are no indicator of the norm :lol:
My 1st Accord & 2nd Maxima ran as smooth as stock with the mods despite making more power. Most cars don't have problems until you start changing stuff like camshafts or compression
Quote from: SVT666 on July 25, 2013, 02:27:05 PM
So no stereo at all?
I put a standard stereo in and a pair of speakers, the stereo dropped right in and I bought speaker brackets to adapt the holes to the proper size.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 25, 2013, 03:00:09 PM
Ford's shitty stock tunes are no indicator of the norm :lol:
My 1st Accord & 2nd Maxima ran as smooth as stock with the mods despite making more power. Most cars don't have problems until you start changing stuff like camshafts or compression
The car will run smooth with those mods, but they won't realize their full potential without one. In fact, they won't realize very much without a tune that is designed to take advantage of the mods.
Crazy that so many people care so much about a stereo. I guess I just don't care that much.
For the love of Christ don't mod it, and not only because the most mods are worthless (CIA, exhaust, grounding cable, etc.) or worse (suspension, ECU tune, etc.). You'll get vastly more utility, and a fair amount more enjoyment, by just keeping it stock and maintaining/repairing as needed.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 25, 2013, 05:03:21 PM
For the love of Christ don't mod it, and not only because the most mods are worthless (CIA, exhaust, grounding cable, etc.) or worse (suspension, ECU tune, etc.). You'll get vastly more utility, and a fair amount more enjoyment, by just keeping it stock and maintaining/repairing as needed.
I've modded cars successfully before. I am going to try to enjoy it now.
Quote from: Raza on July 25, 2013, 04:28:06 PM
Crazy that so many people care so much about a stereo. I guess I just don't care that much.
It's part of the experience like anything else
Quote from: Raza on July 25, 2013, 04:28:06 PM
Crazy that so many people care so much about a stereo. I guess I just don't care that much.
I put a kickass system in my Mustang, but I eventually ripped it out and put the stock stuff back in because the soundtrack from the exhaust was too good and I rarely ever turned the stereo on. Every other vehicle I've had since....not the case.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 25, 2013, 05:03:21 PM
For the love of Christ don't mod it, and not only because the most mods are worthless (CIA, exhaust, grounding cable, etc.) or worse (suspension, ECU tune, etc.). You'll get vastly more utility, and a fair amount more enjoyment, by just keeping it stock and maintaining/repairing as needed.
:facepalm:
Im pretty sure Cougs was thinking about an exhaust too. No sense getting into it though
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 24, 2013, 09:35:23 PM
Pics coming. I have to fix the window regulator and the subwoofer first (both easy fixes)
Nissan still hasn't figured out how to build a reliable window regulator? I had to replace all of them in my 1990 Maxima at least once.
It's a nice looking car, congrats. :ohyeah:
Never had a bad one in the dozen or so nissans I've owned. :huh:
Quote from: Raza on July 25, 2013, 04:28:06 PM
Crazy that so many people care so much about a stereo. I guess I just don't care that much.
I replaced the radio in my miata because it was actually unlistenable, with the bass all the way down and the trouble turned all the way up I could barely listen to music. The rest of the car's headunits were replaced so I can use my bluetooth wireless music apps.
I actually made my Z slower when I modded it. That turbo really slows things down.
Quote from: El Barto on July 25, 2013, 07:14:28 PM
Nissan still hasn't figured out how to build a reliable window regulator? I had to replace all of them in my 1990 Maxima at least once.
It's a nice looking car, congrats. :ohyeah:
This was the first of about 8 or so Nissans I've owned or dealt with that had a problem
I'm surprised manufacturers don't have a 1 size fits all deal for this. They even had a different design for each side... they could have easily designed it to fit both. I know because the parts guy gave me the wrong one :facepalm:
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 24, 2013, 02:32:16 PM
Motorcycles suck for turning and braking.
Only if you suck@bikes.
Congrats, Sporty. Good choice.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 25, 2013, 08:20:41 PM
This was the first of about 8 or so Nissans I've owned or dealt with that had a problem
I'm surprised manufacturers don't have a 1 size fits all deal for this. They even had a different design for each side... they could have easily designed it to fit both. I know because the parts guy gave me the wrong one :facepalm:
By nature, you have to have a mirrored design for those. But cross-platform applications would seem reasonable here.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 25, 2013, 02:32:36 PM
I have seen nice gains w/rudimentary mods on my old cars and no ECU tuning. My 1st Accord got a good 25-30HP at the fuel cut (not peak) from some mild but smart mods. My 2nd Maxima got a really nice low + midrange torque boost (~15-20lb-ft) from changing the exhaust. A lot of the untuned gains on these mods are documented. Sure it won't be like turning up the boost on a turbo car but bleh. Im not looking for 100 more WHP or even much at all TBH.
I don't like the stock wheels. They are the same ones on the same year Maxima. Pretty bland IMO. I'm not sure what color I would get though. Maybe something between stock silver and gunmetal. The 19" G35s look pretty nice
(http://www.350z-tech.com/forums/attachments/wheels-tires/36492d1157222633-any-pics-19-g35-wheels-350z-picture_021.jpg)
Nickel finish would look great. Those don't seem to have the correct backspacing, though. Maybe it's just the angle of the picture.
Quote from: hotrodalex on July 25, 2013, 09:05:43 PM
Nickel finish would look great. Those don't seem to have the correct backspacing, though. Maybe it's just the angle of the picture.
Backspacing? It's called offset! These aren't old timey Cragars, you hillbilly. :rage: :lol:
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 25, 2013, 09:08:01 PM
Backspacing? It's called offset! These aren't old timey Cragars, you hillbilly. :rage: :lol:
I agree, the back spacing on those mag wheels don't look correct.
Here's some recommended mods for your 350Z......
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q36/MadmanOfThePeople/100_3348.jpg?t=1316746496)
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(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q36/MadmanOfThePeople/100_3349.jpg?t=1316746511)
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(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q36/MadmanOfThePeople/100_3350.jpg?t=1316746529)
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(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q36/MadmanOfThePeople/100_3351.jpg?t=1316746549)
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(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q36/MadmanOfThePeople/100_3352.jpg?t=1316746565)
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(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q36/MadmanOfThePeople/100_3353.jpg?t=1316746578)
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(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q36/MadmanOfThePeople/100_3354.jpg?t=1316746594)
:lol:
Congrats, Yaw. That is a very nice car.
Thank god you didn't capitulate and got a sensible car.
That backspacing is correct, or at least, it's factory - both the G35 and 350Z had identical backspacing (those are 19" 1st gen G35 wheels on that white 350Z). I don't think they look that good - custom/non-factory wheels never do. I think the factory 5 spoke wheels look best:
(http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/09/033583.1-lg.jpg)
Quote from: GoCougs on July 26, 2013, 12:30:12 AM
That backspacing is correct, or at least, it's factory - both the G35 and 350Z had identical backspacing (those are 19" 1st gen G35 wheels on that white 350Z). I don't think they look that good - custom/non-factory wheels never do. I think the factory 5 spoke wheels look best:
(http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/09/033583.1-lg.jpg)
Those look nicer than what he has now, but I definitely think a gunmetal or black coating on the wheels would look better on a white car! :praise:
They could use and do look a LOT better with spacers. I am not a fan of staggered setups though. Can't rotate :facepalm: Inherent understeer :facepalm: I would probably go for 2 pairs of rears or a set of aftermarket 18x9s all around.
The 370Z rides on 245s up front and 275s in the back :pullover: That's a lot of meat!!! Those would fill the wheel wells nicely.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 06:05:28 AM
They could use and do look a LOT better with spacers. I am not a fan of staggered setups though. Can't rotate :facepalm: Inherent understeer :facepalm: I would probably go for 2 pairs of rears or a set of aftermarket 18x9s all around.
The 370Z rides on 245s up front and 275s in the back :pullover: That's a lot of meat!!! Those would fill the wheel wells nicely.
Yeah 275's in back is a wide wheel. Definitely think it would look better being pushed out a bit. On my car the aftermarket wheels I have (and practically all of the wheels available) push the wheels out to the edge of the fenders just a little bit, but it is noticeable (to me at least) and gives the car a nicer stance overall IMHO.
Yeah I don't like staggered setups either. I think 18x9's would be pretty cool, although I don't know what tire size you'd use. If it comes with 275's in the back already, that'd be way too much tire for the front IMO.
Quote from: thecarnut on July 26, 2013, 06:53:40 AM
Yeah I don't like staggered setups either. I think 18x9's would be pretty cool, although I don't know what tire size you'd use. If it comes with 275's in the back already, that'd be way too much tire for the front IMO.
:hesaid:
With some cars it's very hard NOT to have a staggered setup. Most RWD cars that are putting down any reasonable amount of power will have them. If you want to run a squared setup you'de need to under-tire the rear. On a stock car like the Z you might be able to run 255's all the way around. At the stock power level it wouldn't be too bad, but sadly staggered sizes are somewhat of a necessity in the performance world.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 26, 2013, 10:33:02 AM
With some cars it's very hard NOT to have a staggered setup. Most RWD cars that are putting down any reasonable amount of power will have them. If you want to run a squared setup you either need to under-tire the front or under-tire the rear. On a stock car like the Z you might be able to run 255's all the way around. At the stock power level it wouldn't be too bad, but sadly staggered sizes are somewhat of a necessity in the performance world.
+1
I'm running a square setup, but my car doesn't make shit for power. There are a ton of BRZs running staggered setups though. There's a lot more room in the rear of the car to do this too.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 26, 2013, 10:33:02 AM
With some cars it's very hard NOT to have a staggered setup. Most RWD cars that are putting down any reasonable amount of power will have them. If you want to run a squared setup you either need to under-tire the front or under-tire the rear. On a stock car like the Z you might be able to run 255's all the way around. At the stock power level it wouldn't be too bad, but sadly staggered sizes are somewhat of a necessity in the performance world.
I think you meant over tire the front, which I don't think is possible (outside of fitment issues). You can never have too much grip. Something like a ZR1 should have 295s in the back and the front
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 11:14:30 AM
I think you meant over tire the front, which I don't think is possible (outside of fitment issues). You can never have too much grip. Something like a ZR1 should have 295s in the back and the front
Actually i meant you would have to under tire the rear to not run a staggered setup. I reread it and it was confusing.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 11:14:30 AM
I think you meant over tire the front, which I don't think is possible (outside of fitment issues). You can never have too much grip. Something like a ZR1 should have 295s in the back and the front
Yes you can have too much grip in the front if it induces oversteer. Ideally you want the grip to be neutral front to rear and a staggered setup is usually a requirement for that in performance cars with a good amount of power.
I have a buddy with a 240sx that is running a squared setup, 245's all around I believe. Nice balance for handling, but there is just one problem. It's got a cam/turned ls2 in it with about 460HP. I tell him all the time he needs 275's minimum in the rear. Personally, in his car, I'd be shooting for 305's for traction purposes.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 11:14:30 AM
I think you meant over tire the front, which I don't think is possible (outside of fitment issues). You can never have too much grip. Something like a ZR1 should have 295s in the back and the front
:wtf:
Didn't you make the argument that more grip made the car less fun? It's like someone hijacked your account for this entire thread. It goes against everything you've stood for for years and years. :lol:
Quote from: MrH on July 26, 2013, 11:27:03 AM
:wtf:
Didn't you make the argument that more grip made the car less fun? It's like someone hijacked your account for this entire thread. It goes against everything you've stood for for years and years. :lol:
No, no and no
If the goal is max grip at all costs you can't have too much rubber. That doesn't mean
I want max grip at all costs :huh:
Quote from: SVT666 on July 26, 2013, 11:22:09 AM
Yes you can have too much grip in the front if it induces oversteer. Ideally you want the grip to be neutral front to rear and a staggered setup is usually a requirement for that in performance cars with a good amount of power.
For a car with 50/50 weight distribution neutral grip would require a square setup, at least at steady state conditions. If either end has a smaller tire patch it is the limiting factor. And something like a ZR1 will always oversteer because it overwhelms its rear tires with power. But it would still have more total grip with more rubber in front.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 11:48:01 AM
No, no and no
If the goal is max grip at all costs you can't have too much rubber. That doesn't mean I want max grip at all costs :huh:
For a car with 50/50 weight distribution neutral grip would require a square setup, at least at steady state conditions. If either end has a smaller tire patch it is the limiting factor. And something like a ZR1 will always oversteer because it overwhelms its rear tires with power. But it would still have more total grip with more rubber in front.
It's nice to see you know more than automotive engineers.
Let's take two cars that have handling described every reviewer as "very neutral":
2012 BMW M3 Coupe
Weight Distribution = 50:50
Front tire size = 245/35 R19
Rear tire size = 265/35 R19
2013 Ford Mustang Boss 302
Weight Distribution = 55F:45R
Front tire size = 255/40 R19
Rear tire size = 285/35 R19
Staggered setup despite being either nose heavy or perfectly balanced. There is a reason for that Sporty.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 11:48:01 AM
No, no and no
If the goal is max grip at all costs you can't have too much rubber. That doesn't mean I want max grip at all costs :huh:
For a car with 50/50 weight distribution neutral grip would require a square setup, at least at steady state conditions. If either end has a smaller tire patch it is the limiting factor. And something like a ZR1 will always oversteer because it overwhelms its rear tires with power. But it would still have more total grip with more rubber in front.
Ah yes, steady state handling dynamics. BRILLIANT!
(http://www.utepprintstore.com/wp-content/uploads/Nissan-350Z-Wallpapers-White-1024x768.jpg)
Looks best w/ the sport 5-spokes. Lightens the visual heft below the beltline.
Quote from: Speed_Racer on July 26, 2013, 12:56:43 PM
(http://www.utepprintstore.com/wp-content/uploads/Nissan-350Z-Wallpapers-White-1024x768.jpg)
Looks best w/ the sport 5-spokes. Lightens the visual heft below the beltline.
Yup, that looks awesome.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 26, 2013, 12:37:09 PM
Let's take two cars that have handling described every reviewer as "very neutral":
2012 BMW M3 Coupe
Weight Distribution = 50:50
Front tire size = 245/35 R19
Rear tire size = 265/35 R19
2013 Ford Mustang Boss 302
Weight Distribution = 55F:45R
Front tire size = 255/40 R19
Rear tire size = 285/35 R19
Staggered setup despite being either nose heavy or perfectly balanced. There is a reason for that Sporty.
Joe Sixpack isn't equipped to deal with a truly neutral setup... automotive lawyers and engineers know this. You look at race cars, many of them run square setups (M3 GTR for example).
My friend's M5 has a square setup (4 rear wheels, basically). I think he's lowered with 295's all around too. He rub-a-dub-dub's all the time in the front. :lol:
Interestingly, even with V8's, most people say not to stagger Miatas. People have LS3 V8's with ~425 hp and 255's all around.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 02:40:29 PM
Joe Sixpack isn't equipped to deal with a truly neutral setup... automotive lawyers and engineers know this. You look at race cars, many of them run square setups (M3 GTR for example).
Actually, most race cars run staggered setups. I remember reading an article/interview with Jack Roush and he was saying how NASCARS are among the worst purpose built race cars and listed the (mandatory) square tire setup as one of the reasons why.
Also, I suspect one of the reasons that 370Zs run such wide rear tires is because a limited slip differential is not standard equipment (at least half of the trims don't have it). Wider tire makes it harder to one-wheel-peel without the TCS kicking in.
Also of note, wide rears w/ narrow fronts is not the only factory tire staggering. GM did wider fronts than rears on the Grand Prix GXP to better cope with the V8's power and keep power understeer in check.
The reason many companies put square setups on production cars is not because it is ideal for performance, but because it is simpler to do so. It also makes tire purchases and rotations simpler and more convenient for the consumer. It's a compromise. That's largely why I chose not to stagger when I went to wider wheels and tires on the Mustang. Keeping a square setup, I can rotated left to right and front to rear, getting more life out of my tires before I have to replace them.
Quote from: MX793 on July 26, 2013, 03:06:38 PM
Also, I suspect one of the reasons that 370Zs run such wide rear tires is because a limited slip differential is not standard equipment (at least half of the trims don't have it). Wider tire makes it harder to one-wheel-peel without the TCS kicking in.
Also of note, wide rears w/ narrow fronts is not the only factory tire staggering. GM did wider fronts than rears on the Grand Prix GXP to better cope with the V8's power and keep power understeer in check.
The reason many companies put square setups on production cars is not because it is ideal for performance, but because it is simpler to do so. It also makes tire purchases and rotations simpler and more convenient for the consumer. It's a compromise. That's largely why I chose not to stagger when I went to wider wheels and tires on the Mustang. Keeping a square setup, I can rotated left to right and front to rear, getting more life out of my tires before I have to replace them.
Pfft, caring about tire wear and life is sooooo toyota camry.
Staggered and directional tires is where it's at. That way I don't have to worry about rotating.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 11:48:01 AM
No, no and no
If the goal is max grip at all costs you can't have too much rubber. That doesn't mean I want max grip at all costs :huh:
For a car with 50/50 weight distribution neutral grip would require a square setup, at least at steady state conditions. If either end has a smaller tire patch it is the limiting factor. And something like a ZR1 will always oversteer because it overwhelms its rear tires with power. But it would still have more total grip with more rubber in front.
Yes, because the S2000 was always known for its tendency to understeer.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 02:40:29 PM
Joe Sixpack isn't equipped to deal with a truly neutral setup... automotive lawyers and engineers know this. You look at race cars, many of them run square setups (M3 GTR for example).
Those ARE neutral setups for those cars. Even Randy Pobst calls them "very neutral" handling cars. He's a successful race car driver.
Whatever.
I am finding it hard to make the 1-2 shift smooth
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 05:12:00 PM
Whatever.
I am finding it hard to make the 1-2 shift smooth
Try it once using the clutch pedal.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 26, 2013, 06:07:32 PM
Try it once using the clutch pedal.
What do you think he is, some sort of pussy?
Bike really spoiled me. But then, it is pretty awesome to be able to go places in flip flops, with tunes playing.
Fixed the subwoofer :rastaguy: God Bose sucks. Headunit says it plays CDRs... I steal a CDR from wifey's car, load it up... "Check Disc" :facepalm: I have a cheap Pioneer HU in my closet so I just ordered the Bose to actual radio harness and install kit.
Love this thing on the highway. On center feel is great, weight is great, torque is great. Getting like 14 MPG right now though but I've only been doing city driving with A/C blasting.
Nice car
... but things like spring rates, sway bar rates, and bump stop spring rates determine the balance of the car as much as square or staggerred setups
Quote from: r0tor on July 27, 2013, 09:07:08 AM
Nice car
... but things like spring rates, sway bar rates, and bump stop spring rates determine the balance of the car as much as square or staggerred setups
No, but it's the same grip when it's sitting still, don't you see?!
That's true. If you put a large enough anti-roll bar in a Focus, it will oversteer.
If you don't have enough rubber the suspension doesn't matter
Plus the front tires see loads far greater than what the rear tires ever see at high speeds. Trail braking or just braking period being the biggest example (see Mr H its not just for when cars are "sitting still" which you know damn well isn't what I meant anyway). No street car period generates 1g of straight line forward acceleration beyond 1st gear... plenty of cars brake as hard as or harder than 1g at track speeds
If anyone has any explanation besides "someone else does it" I'm all ears. OEMs do a lot of things that aren't about max performance
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 27, 2013, 09:56:35 AM
If you don't have enough rubber the suspension doesn't matter
Plus the front tires see loads far greater than what the rear tires ever see at high speeds. Trail braking or just braking period being the biggest example (see Mr H its not just for when cars are "sitting still" which you know damn well isn't what I meant anyway). No street car period generates 1g of straight line forward acceleration beyond 1st gear... plenty of cars brake as hard as or harder than 1g at track speeds
If anyone has any explanation besides "someone else does it" I'm all ears. OEMs do a lot of things that aren't about max performance
I guess Ferrari desperately needs to hire you eh?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 27, 2013, 09:56:35 AM
If you don't have enough rubber the suspension doesn't matter
Plus the front tires see loads far greater than what the rear tires ever see at high speeds. Trail braking or just braking period being the biggest example (see Mr H its not just for when cars are "sitting still" which you know damn well isn't what I meant anyway). No street car period generates 1g of straight line forward acceleration beyond 1st gear... plenty of cars brake as hard as or harder than 1g at track speeds
If anyone has any explanation besides "someone else does it" I'm all ears. OEMs do a lot of things that aren't about max performance
You gotta be trolling.
There's never an amount of rubber where "the suspension doesn't matter." I don't even know what you're trying to say here.
And no, the front tires don't see far greater loads than the rears. There'd never be oversteer is that were true. And no, cars shift weight dynamically. You can't look at the static weight distribution and apply that to cars moving. It doesn't work that way at all.
Super cars are over 1g past first gear.
You're asking for an explanation on something that has countless variables. You want some blanket statement for car design. It doesn't work like that.
"Mr. [Sporty], what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." :lol:
Countless variables.
See the delta wing car for an extreme example of this. I think it uses 90 ish mm wide front tires.
So, it's been about a week. No pictures of the car after a full polish/detail?
Im gonna do that once I get back... Im in Charleston now, wifey is on a ghost walk tour and I am decompressing from the 4 hour drive down. Got all the stuff I need to do a basic car wash so most likely this weekend if weather permits.
I really thought the Rabbit felt Euro and German when we first got it. Now it feels like a Corolla. I wonder how an actual Corolla feels.
Im fighting really hard to not give in to the modding bug. I am def doing the radio over as the stock Bose HU doesnt even play CDRs. Im hoping the sound quality and bass will be "good enough"... the stock sub location takes to new subs easy with a little work. Im also curious about cold air intakes. A unit with a K&N filter is like $200 on Ebay. Then my mind starts to snowball. Stock stance is good but ride is a little bouncy... Tokico D-Spec suspension would sort that out. It's a maintenance item right? Stock wheels are hideous IMO, there is a lot for sale around here. Long tube headers wouldn't hurt. Nismo V2 bumper would really modernize the nose. MKII headlights have much better output. Etc etc. I need to learn to be satisfied and enjoy the moment.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 30, 2013, 06:54:37 PM
I really thought the Rabbit felt Euro and German when we first got it. Now it feels like a Corolla. I wonder how an actual Corolla feels.
Im fighting really hard to not give in to the modding bug. I am def doing the radio over as the stock Bose HU doesnt even play CDRs. Im hoping the sound quality and bass will be "good enough"... the stock sub location takes to new subs easy with a little work. Im also curious about cold air intakes. A unit with a K&N filter is like $200 on Ebay. Then my mind starts to snowball. Stock stance is good but ride is a little bouncy... Tokico D-Spec suspension would sort that out. It's a maintenance item right? Stock wheels are hideous IMO, there is a lot for sale around here. Long tube headers wouldn't hurt. Nismo V2 bumper would really modernize the nose. MKII headlights have much better output. Etc etc. I need to learn to be satisfied and enjoy the moment.
How about you give me 500 dollars, we go out back, and I kick you in the nuts.
That would get your mind off of that.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 30, 2013, 06:54:37 PM
I really thought the Rabbit felt Euro and German when we first got it. Now it feels like a Corolla. I wonder how an actual Corolla feels.
Im fighting really hard to not give in to the modding bug. I am def doing the radio over as the stock Bose HU doesnt even play CDRs. Im hoping the sound quality and bass will be "good enough"... the stock sub location takes to new subs easy with a little work. Im also curious about cold air intakes. A unit with a K&N filter is like $200 on Ebay. Then my mind starts to snowball. Stock stance is good but ride is a little bouncy... Tokico D-Spec suspension would sort that out. It's a maintenance item right? Stock wheels are hideous IMO, there is a lot for sale around here. Long tube headers wouldn't hurt. Nismo V2 bumper would really modernize the nose. MKII headlights have much better output. Etc etc. I need to learn to be satisfied and enjoy the moment.
'Meh' on those mods - they either won't look so good or won't add much if any performance, will cost a lot and probably decrease resale value and reliability.
Enjoy the moment IMO, and save those mod $$$ for buying the next step up (or, that's the lesson that worked hugely well for me).
I could always return it to stock. And Z owners like mods more than avg buyers. Still though it's a good car as is, only real hang up is the stereo which I already have parts for.
I'd invest the money so over the course of the next 5-10 years (however long you keep it) it'd have made interest instead of depreciation to put toward the next car.
Buying mods (or the car period) doesn't preclude me from investing
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 31, 2013, 06:20:40 AM
Buying mods (or the car period) doesn't preclude me from investing
Have fun then
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 31, 2013, 06:20:40 AM
Buying mods (or the car period) doesn't preclude me from investing
No, but it is a double whammy on what you may be able to afford in the future (mod money = no value add + may even decreases resale of the current car).
It's a used car, who cares about what mods do or don't do to it. Investing instead? Fucking come on you guys.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on July 31, 2013, 02:50:46 PM
It's a used car, who cares about what mods do or don't do to it. Investing instead? Fucking come on you guys.
:hesaid:
100% of cosmetically modded 350Zs end up looking like shit.
:lol:
Quote from: Raza on July 31, 2013, 03:06:33 PM
100% of cosmetically modded 350Zs end up looking like shit.
True story. I have never seen a good looking 350Z body that wasn't stock.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on July 31, 2013, 02:50:46 PM
It's a used car, who cares about what mods do or don't do to it. Investing instead? Fucking come on you guys.
We are the unthusiast car forum.
Quote from: Raza on July 31, 2013, 03:06:33 PM
100% of cosmetically modded 350Zs end up looking like shit.
I laughed, but then realized you're right. Every modded 350Z looks awful. Like it's trying to get on the cover of a Need for Speed Underground video game.
Quote from: Raza on July 31, 2013, 03:06:33 PM
100% of cosmetically modded 350Zs end up looking like shit.
Dead on
I think it's because Nissan went out on a limb when they designed the 350Z originally. With the slashes and slabs and its big chunky front lip, it's basically pre-riced.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on July 31, 2013, 02:50:46 PM
It's a used car, who cares about what mods do or don't do to it. Investing instead? Fucking come on you guys.
Oh, noes - saving for the future :(.
Sporty should also avoid going to the movies, bars, restaurants, or mall. He should sit inside and read "Investing for Dummies" while eating ramen and PB&J, then go to work for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Oh, and he should sell the Z and his bike, using public transportation instead. Because any of those things are just taking away money that could be invested!
Nismo V2 looks great. Odds are 350zs that are modded well dont look modded to the untrained eye.
Lololol @ worrying about resale value on a 10 year old car. This thing is at the bottom of its depreciation curve. Im gonna do what I want.
Quote from: hotrodalex on July 31, 2013, 05:19:57 PM
Sporty should also avoid going to the movies, bars, restaurants, or mall. He should sit inside and read "Investing for Dummies" while eating ramen and PB&J, then go to work for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Oh, and he should sell the Z and his bike, using public transportation instead. Because any of those things are just taking away money that could be invested!
His casket shall be made from paper mache of all the money he saved!
+1 that mods, especially cosmetic mods, are a huge waste of money and more often than not make the car look like shit.
Where are the fucking pics?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 31, 2013, 06:00:32 PM
Nismo V2 looks great. Odds are 350zs that are modded well dont look modded to the untrained eye.
The V2 looks alright, but stock still looks better.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 31, 2013, 05:01:29 PM
Oh, noes - saving for the future :(.
It's called a hobby. People have hobbies to enjoy life. Hobbies cost money. People work to make money.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 31, 2013, 06:00:32 PM
Nismo V2 looks great. Odds are 350zs that are modded well dont look modded to the untrained eye.
Lololol @ worrying about resale value on a 10 year old car. This thing is at the bottom of its depreciation curve. Im gonna do what I want.
This thing?
(http://www.24zero.com/lee/V2/IMG_5589-700.jpg)
It's cool in a kind of "yeah, I wear a teal G-Shock" kind of way, I guess....
I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of cosmetically modded 350Zs. And not a single one looked good.
In general, cosmetic mods:
1. Cost a lot
2. Add no functionality
3. Probably make the car a little slower
4. Look aftermarket
5. At best, make a car look only a little worse
350Zs look so good stock, don't ruin yours!
Quote from: Raza on August 01, 2013, 07:18:03 AM
This thing?
(http://www.24zero.com/lee/V2/IMG_5589-700.jpg)
It's cool in a kind of "yeah, I wear a teal G-Shock" kind of way, I guess....
I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of cosmetically modded 350Zs. And not a single one looked good.
In general, cosmetic mods:
1. Cost a lot
2. Add no functionality
3. Probably make the car a little slower
4. Look aftermarket
5. At best, make a car look only a little worse
350Zs look so good stock, don't ruin yours!
The V2 might not be too bad, at some angles and in certain colors.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h57/bigphil_photos/andrew07028.jpg)
However I do agree and not just with the 350Z, alot of cars look perfectly fine in stock form. A slight lowering(to eliminate wheel gap) and a change in rim size/design is normally all most cars need to look their best.
I wouldnt get the whole kit, just the front bumper with no canards (and the center painted black)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/harrisonkrupnick/Joes%20Z/DSC00251.jpg)
If I got sides and a rear they would be very mild. I dont like the V2 sides/rear. The bumper is like $400 plus paint, not really a big deal. I am huge on subtlety, I wouldn't get anything crazy.
It's your car and money, but I think that looks like shit. And looks like it would get scuffed up fast, too.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 01, 2013, 08:07:47 AM
I wouldnt get the whole kit, just the front bumper with no canards (and the center painted black)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/harrisonkrupnick/Joes%20Z/DSC00251.jpg)
If I got sides and a rear they would be very mild. I dont like the V2 sides/rear. The bumper is like $400 plus paint, not really a big deal. I am huge on subtlety, I wouldn't get anything crazy.
I think your definition of subtle and my definition of subtle are a bit different. :lol:
On the upside, you have a place to rest your cup of coffee when you're getting your briefcase or whatever out of the car.
That looks turrrrrrrible.
Way too slabsided (slabfronted?)
Too fast...tooooo furious... ACT A FOOL! [/LUDA]
This is not a design by council. I heard you guys the first 12 times. Plus you guys seem more offended about the idea of modifying a car than the actual mod. The stock front bumper on the 350Z is hideous. I don't like the lip but the overall shape and "mouth" of the bumper look more modern and flow with the car better IMO. You have this bulbous curvaceous form with this flat Robocop face... it looks weird. The rest of the design is fine.
The pic I chose was kind of bad as I hate the wheels, the CF eyelids and the white painted grille. I just chose it because it didn't have the canards. Odds are pretty high if I had got the bumper and posted pics you wouldn't have known the difference. It's not ricey at all, it's an OEM bumper.
Quote from: MrH on August 01, 2013, 08:55:54 AM
Too fast...tooooo furious... ACT A FOOL! [/LUDA]
:lol:
I really hope this car doesn't end up looking like it took a sabbatical in El Salvador after you're through with it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 01, 2013, 09:08:48 AM
This is not a design by council. I heard you guys the first 12 times.
Make it 13 then. Yuck.
Quote
Plus you guys seem more offended about the idea of modifying a car than the actual mod.
Not me. I like mods. I even like cosmetic mods if they look good. Like, to me, the best looking front clip for the 2011 Mustang is from Roush or the California Special. The stock GT bumper is boring.
Quote from: Raza on August 01, 2013, 08:37:26 AM
I think your definition of subtle and my definition of subtle are a bit different. :lol:
On the upside, you have a place to rest your cup of coffee when you're getting your briefcase or whatever out of the car.
I've used my evo wing as a small shelf from time to time, when the car is parked of course. All jokes aside, it is the perfect height to set food on and eat off.
Not offended just saying its a wastamoney and ugly.
Hey man, your car, your cash, your call. Not offended, just saying...
when I see that bumper I think of this:
(http://www.zerotohundred.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/3040423443_d075f91398.jpg)
Holy shit, you guys are the most boring bunch of sad fucks I've ever seen. Telling him to invest the money he could spend on modifying his car and that every bodykit looks horrible.
I think the shape of that bumper looks pretty good. The headlights and eyelids look kinda weird but otherwise I think with the grill painted a different color, it'd look pretty good.
Honestly I would not post your ideas to do anything to the car on this board. All the boring people will shit on your ideas anyways.
Quote from: thecarnut on August 01, 2013, 11:31:50 AM
Holy shit, you guys are the most boring bunch of sad fucks I've ever seen. Telling him to invest the money he could spend on modifying his car and that every bodykit looks horrible.
I think the shape of that bumper looks pretty good. The headlights and eyelids look kinda weird but otherwise I think with the grill painted a different color, it'd look pretty good.
Honestly I would not post your ideas to do anything to the car on this board. All the boring people will shit on your ideas anyways.
Not all bodykits. Just all bodykits for the 350Z (and 95% of kits overall).
You're just pissed because you do stupid shit like paint your reverse lights red and get shit for it like it's not a safety issue. This is completely different. Nothing Sporty is doing make it more likely for him to get into a parking lot crash. (Well, with that bumper, a little).
That bumper looks bad. Get a bumper from a late 350Z. Those looks swell.
Quote from: Raza on August 01, 2013, 11:36:55 AM
Not all bodykits. Just all bodykits for the 350Z (and 95% of kits overall).
You're just pissed because you do stupid shit like paint your reverse lights red and get shit for it like it's not a safety issue. This is completely different. Nothing Sporty is doing make it more likely for him to get into a parking lot crash. (Well, with that bumper, a little).
Um, that doesn't even make any sense, but OK. Keep telling me that my car is unsafe while you keep posting about how you raced cars on public roads.
Quote from: thecarnut on August 01, 2013, 01:06:31 PM
Um, that doesn't even make any sense, but OK. Keep telling me that my car is unsafe while you keep posting about how you raced cars on public roads.
It's not like I painted my headlights black.
I'm starting to see a division between the posters here on carspin.
It seems everyone is beginning to fall into two different groups. On one side you have the idiots then the other myself.
:lol:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on August 01, 2013, 01:21:01 PM
I'm starting to see a division between the posters here on carspin.
It seems everyone is beginning to fall into two different groups. On one side you have the idiots then the other myself.
:lol:
:lol:
Quote from: thecarnut on August 01, 2013, 11:31:50 AM
Holy shit, you guys are the most boring bunch of sad fucks I've ever seen. Telling him to invest the money he could spend on modifying his car and that every bodykit looks horrible.
I think the shape of that bumper looks pretty good. The headlights and eyelids look kinda weird but otherwise I think with the grill painted a different color, it'd look pretty good.
Honestly I would not post your ideas to do anything to the car on this board. All the boring people will shit on your ideas anyways.
You are right. I will keep this thread to mundane things like dash rattles a la Cougs. I dont want to buck the status quo.
Here are the cosmetic mods I find acceptable:
Getting other OEM wheels
Upgraded windshield washer fluid
Having the car washed
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 01, 2013, 02:55:37 PM
You are right. I will keep this thread to mundane things like dash rattles a la Cougs. I dont want to buck the status quo.
:lol: Have fun with your car dude! I'm sure you won't go Ape Shit crazy. Get that stereo fixed and get you a nice set a wheels! I still haven't got the wheels I wanted!! :banghead:
Quote from: Raza on August 01, 2013, 03:01:35 PM
Here are the cosmetic mods I find acceptable:
Getting other OEM wheels
Upgraded windshield washer fluid
Having the car washed
If you buy my next car I will adhere to those rules
Depends on prices and how much you're going to use the car vs the bike, but I'd lower the car a bit while upgrading the shocks and get a different exhaust on there before the bumper, unless the bumper is in horrible condition (but we've never seen the front of the car because someone won't post pics. :rage: :lol:
New wheels would be cool too.
New wheels before bumper, then see if you even want to do the bumper after you change the look with the wheels. If you still want to do it, it's the least offensive 350Z bumper I have seen so you would have my blessing at that point.
In 6 months:
(http://ridesinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Nissan-350z-Modified.jpg)
I would drive the shit out of that, except for getting different wheels with not rubberband tires.
Fast & Furious Nissan 350Z - Canon PowerShot G1X (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6E41ksq2R0#ws)
It's white and everything.
Alright I will wash it and get some pics. Maybe I will even shoot a little video.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 01, 2013, 05:19:43 PM
Alright I will wash it and get some pics. Maybe I will even shoot a little video.
Cool, how's the finish on it. I guess it's white so it shouldn't be too rough, I'd still polish it though unless your not into that.
Either way, can't wait to see some pictures. :ohyeah:
How many pages here and no pics? Embarrassing.
Ban him!
There are pics on his Facebook.
Patience patience
I didn't wash it because I realized I didn't have soap... just tire gloss and wheel cleaner :wtf: It doesn't look too bad though
350Z proof & quick review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFfmVb6jjuE#ws)
(http://i.imgur.com/3fxZ60K.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/txIthCB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/mcMhQlN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GTSpVHN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Q5N7joy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1sP7OD6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PB7ACIU.jpg)
Stock ride height doesn't look bad but I would definitely lower and do wheels before the front bumper, since yours is in great shape.
Stock bumper looks good, I wouldn't change that... Same with ride height. Maybe come down 1/4-1/2 inch, but I'd only do that if upgrading the suspension for performance reasons, not just looks.
It def doesn't need much lowering, especially if the wheels were spaced out (or replaced with wider/lower offset ones). I wouldn't stretch the tires- that's stupid... but the wheels could be out ~1" more or so.
(http://my350z.com/forum/attachments/wheels-and-tires/222158d1231345159-wheel-spacers-for-stock-rims-suzuka4.jpg)
Look how flush that is compared to mine. Looks a lot better, prob handles a little better too, but is very subtle.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 01, 2013, 06:07:21 PM
350Z proof & quick review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFfmVb6jjuE#ws)
Still more entertaining than any any review I've ever seen on Motorweek. The "shitty cupholder" observation is spot-on! :ohyeah:
Looks good
I never realized how devoid of style the interior door panels are. The whole glove box thing is weird too.
:lol: I enjoyed the Cougs shout out.
The front bumper looks fine. I like it a lot better than what you posted. If you're going to spend some money on something cosmetic, get some new wheels. That's money much better spent IMO. Ride height looks fine too.
Thanks for the review video, and pics.
Now get a gopro and show us some backroad hooliganism.
Quote from: SVT666 on August 01, 2013, 08:38:59 PM
I never realized how devoid of style the interior door panels are. The whole glove box thing is weird too.
Forreal.
Also, 140 miles is like an entire tank in my car. :mask:
The window sills are also comically high. Something I wanted to mention also was the trunk turns into a resonance chamber that amps the shit out of road noise. I am debating whether that is a problem worth tackling either with some Dynamat inside or some spray on sound deadener in the wheel wells. Dynamat would work better if I lowered the car.
The whole interior was built to cost but kind of smartly designed. They went with smart fasteners over screws whenever possible. There is styrofoam in the door to keep the window aligned. Etc. I think my color combo is the most mature/luxurious as well. But yea the doors are super slab sided. I wish they would have put in a second arm rest or something. You don't really notice while driving though.
That video was fun. I might do one of the wife's car.
IMO the door panels are great, it's pure tumblehome with no fussy creases or slashes.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 01, 2013, 06:07:21 PM
Patience patience
I didn't wash it because I realized I didn't have soap... just tire gloss and wheel cleaner :wtf: It doesn't look too bad though
350Z proof & quick review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFfmVb6jjuE#ws)
Oh come on, you didn't actually think people didn't believe you, did you?
I said it already, that's a great looking car. I'll always like the 350Z.
Also, you sound disappointingly white. :lol:
Yao? That's how you pronounce it?
No glovebox!? WTF!
Silverware drawers :lol:
Video is useless without a top speed run.
Quote from: CALL_911 on August 01, 2013, 09:50:06 PM
Oh come on, you didn't actually think people didn't believe you, did you?
I said it already, that's a great looking car. I'll always like the 350Z.
I, too, didn't care for the tone of his closing remarks. What does he think we are, a bunch of assholes?
Sporty has pharaoh eyes. :lol:
Quote from: CALL_911 on August 01, 2013, 09:50:35 PM
Also, you sound disappointingly white. :lol:
Damned if you do....
Maybe if I do one for the Rabbit... I will turn on my internal Sherman Hemsley.... you wheat cracka.... :lol:
Quote from: Laconian on August 01, 2013, 09:33:33 PM
IMO the door panels are great, it's pure tumblehome with no fussy creases or slashes.
Modern door panels seem a lot harder to design than the old school stitched vinyl ones. My car would be just as slab sided if it wasn't for some stitching and a little brightwork. But you can't do that with molded plastic.
It's a natural camouflage mechanism.
http://youtu.be/BUS6nKpddec (http://youtu.be/BUS6nKpddec)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 01, 2013, 10:00:36 PM
Damned if you do....
Maybe if I do one for the Rabbit... I will turn on my internal Sherman Hemsley.... you wheat cracka.... :lol:
Do it, I request some offroad footage of the Rabbit. I'm sure you guys have some state wildlife area's around there.
Hold on, I don't want to hear shit about my RX-8's MPG anymore! I get better then that! I actually just got 300 miles out of one tank last week. By far the best I've ever done.
But nice car. As I already pointed out many pages ago I thought it would be a good pick. And at the price I doubt you could do better.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on August 01, 2013, 10:04:43 PM
Do it, I request some offroad footage of the Rabbit. I'm sure you guys have some state wildlife area's around there.
Ah man I miss offroad adventures in my Saturn. I need another car like that.
Quote from: Onslaught on August 01, 2013, 10:05:19 PM
Hold on, I don't want to hear shit about my RX-8's MPG anymore! I get better then that!
Because horsepower
Quote from: Onslaught on August 02, 2013, 04:47:46 AM
What! It's "just" 55 bhp.
Thats a lot... especially considering your car is like 300lb lighter too. Plus this has been mostly city driving... on the highway I could prob do low to mid 20s
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 01, 2013, 10:00:36 PM
Damned if you do....
Maybe if I do one for the Rabbit... I will turn on my internal Sherman Hemsley.... you wheat cracka.... :lol:
:lol: Nice car! That glove box shit would drive me crazy!
Wow, I previously only watched the first half of the video. I LOL'ed so hard at the Cougs jab. :clap:
If Sporty had turned on the "urban" for the Cougs jab, it would have been even better. :lol:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on August 02, 2013, 06:27:20 AM
:lol: Nice car! That glove box shit would drive me crazy!
Behind the passengers seat, what an idea. Would be funny though to ask someone riding with you to grab something out of the glovebox.
My miata had two small storage compartments behind the seats too. It was good for storing things you only need once in awhile (I think I had sunscreen in one of them). Not nearly as convenient as a glovebox though. That's strange the 350Zs didn't have one. I'm guessing they were too tight on the HVAC packaging to get one in there.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 02, 2013, 06:19:13 AM
Thats a lot... especially considering your car is like 300lb lighter too. Plus this has been mostly city driving... on the highway I could prob do low to mid 20s
So what you're saying is your car is a fat ass pig?
I'm just play'n around in the first place.
Quote from: Onslaught on August 02, 2013, 07:50:23 AM
So what you're saying is your car is a fat ass pig?
I'm just play'n around in the first place.
:rage:
Seems like it costs $$$ to buy a car that gets power, weight and power to weight right (Z4M, Cayman S, 997 Carrera). If this thing were like 2800-2900lbs it would be perfect. But perfection costs money
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on August 02, 2013, 07:36:14 AM
Behind the passengers seat, what an idea. Would be funny though to ask someone riding with you to grab something out of the glovebox.
Yeah, that's a shitty place to put one. I have two gloveboxes, one between the seats and one in the normal position.
(http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/nissan/350z/2007/fd/2007_nissan_350z_actf34_fd_1_600.jpg)
Push down to get reverse isn't uncommon. My Mustang is like that (but the Mustang has reverse next to first, so greater risk of accidentally engaging it). I seem to recall the Genesis coupe being that way as well. 1st gen Ford Focuses had a little collar on the shifter that you had to pull up on to engage reverse even though they were only a 5 speed.
Quote from: 68_427 on August 02, 2013, 12:57:30 PM
(http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/nissan/350z/2007/fd/2007_nissan_350z_actf34_fd_1_600.jpg)
Is that the nose that cuts off airflow to the front brakes and causes the fluid to boil?
Quote from: MX793 on August 02, 2013, 01:04:30 PM
Push down to get reverse isn't uncommon. My Mustang is like that (but the Mustang has reverse next to first, so greater risk of accidentally engaging it). I seem to recall the Genesis coupe being that way as well. 1st gen Ford Focuses had a little collar on the shifter that you had to pull up on to engage reverse even though they were only a 5 speed.
I figured reverse was always locked out once you were moving. Mine doesn't have anything special to get it into reverse, but you can't shift into it while going forward (I think).
Quote from: MX793 on August 02, 2013, 01:05:01 PM
Is that the nose that cuts off airflow to the front brakes and causes the fluid to boil?
:lol: I am pretty sure that was a 370Z
I wonder if this thing has front brake ducts. I don't have Brembos. Front OE caliper BBK is only $800 :mask:
Quote from: MX793 on August 02, 2013, 01:04:30 PM
Push down to get reverse isn't uncommon. My Mustang is like that (but the Mustang has reverse next to first, so greater risk of accidentally engaging it). I seem to recall the Genesis coupe being that way as well. 1st gen Ford Focuses had a little collar on the shifter that you had to pull up on to engage reverse even though they were only a 5 speed.
Volkswagens are like that too. The TT was as well, so I imagine other Audis are that way.
My Porsche and BMW didn't have anything like that though, both have reverse next to first. Never once accidentally engaged reverse.
The Fiat I drove had a little lift collar. Still, why not just put reverse by 1st? IDK.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 02, 2013, 02:17:14 PM
The Fiat I drove had a little lift collar. Still, why not just put reverse by 1st? IDK.
The pull up is odd. The Cobalt SS/SC has that. So did the Crossfire. It's rare.
Quote from: Raza on August 02, 2013, 02:00:37 PM
Volkswagens are like that too. The TT was as well, so I imagine other Audis are that way.
My Porsche and BMW didn't have anything like that though, both have reverse next to first. Never once accidentally engaged reverse.
Both of my Audi's had the same thing for reverse.
Quote from: Raza on August 02, 2013, 02:50:01 PM
The pull up is odd. The Cobalt SS/SC has that. So did the Crossfire. It's rare.
As did my old Cougar. When I was test-driving it, I kept grabbing 4th and stalling it when I wanted reverse, because I didn't know about the collar.
Man this thing is a god damn gas hog
At half a tank a week though I can manage. Plus once summer is over no more A/C which helps tremendously
Getting smoother w/clutch operation as well
I feel really bad about not messing with the bike much anymore. I am starting to understand why people stop riding
What kind of MPGs are you seeing?
The trip meter says ~16-17 so far on this tank. Its pretty much the worst though... ~8 mile round trips to the gym, A/C, kind of getting on it. I went with wifey down to Charlotte this weekend and it went up to ~19MPG. What do you get in the G?
17 with my slow 5-mile commute :lol:
I get high 20's/low 30's for pure freeway trips though, so my car has long distance legs when I want it to.
The VQ hates stop and go.
Quote from: MX793 on August 02, 2013, 01:04:30 PM
Push down to get reverse isn't uncommon. My Mustang is like that (but the Mustang has reverse next to first, so greater risk of accidentally engaging it). I seem to recall the Genesis coupe being that way as well. 1st gen Ford Focuses had a little collar on the shifter that you had to pull up on to engage reverse even though they were only a 5 speed.
All VW cars are like that, pretty much any Korean MT (Hyundai, Kia) is like that, GM is like that with all their new MT shifters (Cruze, Camaro, Sonic), too.
Quote from: Raza on August 02, 2013, 02:50:01 PM
The pull up is odd. The Cobalt SS/SC has that. So did the Crossfire. It's rare.
It isn't rare in the slightest.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 02, 2013, 03:56:03 PM
The trip meter says ~16-17 so far on this tank. Its pretty much the worst though... ~8 mile round trips to the gym, A/C, kind of getting on it. I went with wifey down to Charlotte this weekend and it went up to ~19MPG. What do you get in the G?
I'd blame most of that on the AC AND your heavy foot! :lol: my G8 bets better milage than that on the freeway tho.....
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 02, 2013, 03:56:03 PM
The trip meter says ~16-17 so far on this tank. Its pretty much the worst though... ~8 mile round trips to the gym, A/C, kind of getting on it. I went with wifey down to Charlotte this weekend and it went up to ~19MPG. What do you get in the G?
That's not bad for around town. I used to get 15-16 under similar conditions in my Passat.
I think he'll find that his freeway MPGs are going to be much better than 19 once the novelty wears off.
Quote from: 2o6 on August 02, 2013, 04:23:17 PM
All VW cars are like that, pretty much any Korean MT (Hyundai, Kia) is like that, GM is like that with all their new MT shifters (Cruze, Camaro, Sonic), too.
It isn't rare in the slightest.
Compared to the other types? It kind of is.
Quote from: Laconian on August 02, 2013, 04:37:45 PM
I think he'll find that his freeway MPGs are going to be much better than 19 once the novelty wears off.
Yeah, once I started driving for mileage, my 15 city turned to 32 highway.
WTF? I get better MPG then some of you with city driving and I hit the red line 3-4 times a day. What the hell are you people doing?
Enjoying his new car
Quote from: Laconian on August 02, 2013, 05:56:13 PM
Enjoying his new car
I'm talking about some of the other people.
BTW just looked at the pics (couldn't see them at work) and count me as another one who thinks changing the bumper is a waste of money...but i would definitely say get some new wheels! The stock 5 spokes posted earlier would look great with your color imho.
Anyway congrats, looks like a great car!
Quote from: Onslaught on August 02, 2013, 05:54:51 PM
WTF? I get better MPG then some of you with city driving and I hit the red line 3-4 times a day. What the hell are you people doing?
My thoughts as well...
Quote from: Onslaught on August 02, 2013, 05:54:51 PM
WTF? I get better MPG then some of you with city driving and I hit the red line 3-4 times a day. What the hell are you people doing?
Quote from: r0tor on August 02, 2013, 06:30:38 PM
My thoughts as well...
Oil counts too :evildude:
And in any case, I hit redline when I find an open stretch. You hit redline just to keep up with traffic :evildude: :evildude: :evildude:
Quote from: r0tor on August 02, 2013, 06:30:38 PM
My thoughts as well...
I always hear how I can't go to the store without going to the gas station. Sounds like these guys have the same problems.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 02, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
Oil counts too :evildude:
And in any case, I hit redline when I find an open stretch. You hit redline just to keep up with traffic :evildude: :evildude: :evildude:
:lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 02, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
Oil counts too :evildude:
And in any case, I hit redline when I find an open stretch. You hit redline just to keep up with traffic :evildude: :evildude: :evildude:
Oh, I wasn't talking about you.
I'm sure you need to hit red line to get that hefty auto buffalo going. You'll probably need to stock up on front brake pads too. I'm sure bringing that land carrier to a full stop must use up the pads fast.
:devil:
:lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 02, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
Oil counts too :evildude:
And in any case, I hit redline when I find an open stretch. You hit redline just to keep up with traffic :evildude: :evildude: :evildude:
I doubt you hit redline... But if youd did, the VQ would be sounding like a grumpy old mans ass waiting to explode
This thread is getting awesome
:popcorn:
Atleast he doesn't have to keep a set of piston rings on hand. I heard costco is starting to carry apex seals, in bulk of course.
Oh snap, we've got a good ol' fashioned RX vs Z car fight going on!!!! These can be more fun then the Mustang vs Camaro internet fights. I'll have to drive up and blow some apex seals out of exhaust of my R3 at you new Z.
What's the difference between,
a day at the track with a RX8
and
a day at the track with a 350Z?
a case of oil.
Actually not joking here. I'm starting to think somethings wrong with my 8. She doesn't drink oil like all the other ones I know do. And she's got three oil injectors and not two like the old 8's had. So I'd figure it should drink more oil and not less.
Are you premixing too? I wonder what the software algorithm is for the oil injection system. Maybe it's condition dependent and you just aren't using much.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on August 03, 2013, 09:39:01 AM
Are you premixing too? I wonder what the software algorithm is for the oil injection system. Maybe it's condition dependent and you just aren't using much.
Rpm and load based map for the variable stroke injection pump
Quote from: r0tor on August 03, 2013, 09:49:08 AM
Rpm and load based map for the variable stroke injection pump
So either he's babying this thing around, under no load and at low RPM's. Or his car isn't injecting enough oil, which I believe is the reason for early seal failure and the reason I hear more and more RX8 guys premixing(and in some cases doing a oil injection delete).
Meh, at least we have a glove box to store extra apex seals :ohyeah:
Quote from: r0tor on August 03, 2013, 09:55:06 AM
Meh, at least we have a glove box to store extra apex seals :ohyeah:
Wasn't being an ass, actually he should look into it or premix if his injection system isn't putting enough oil in there.
The RX-8 is a great car that would aggravate my natural tendencies towards worrying too much. I'd afraid to drive it for fear of having to rebuild the motor.
Nah, you become afraid you will have to rebuild the engine from not driving hard enough.
Man bolt ons for the Z are pretty good. Headers aren't worth it. Intake, high flow cats and exhaust are good for 20 or so WHP and ~15lb-ft through the rev range. Not bad for ~$1000, that's almost E46 M3 power.
Nah, you're not getting +20 WHP with intake, cats and exhaust throughout the rev range on a stock engine. No way, no how. Simply put, Nissan ain't going to botch fundamental engine design to the detriment of power (= detriment of MPG). Those things are meant for when an engine's VE and/or flow rate is increased substantially (i.e., cams + heads, forced induction, etc.).
What very little power is added by such things ain't even going to be detected on a chassis dyno by definition (i.e., within the noise of the accuracy/precision of the measuring system). And what little power (1-3 hp?) that is gained is at the expense of lower RPM driveability, esp. throttle response. Do it for looks, do it for sound, but it ain't gonna help with performance or power (on a stock engine).
Quote from: GoCougs on August 04, 2013, 08:01:06 PM
Nah, you're not getting +20 WHP with intake, cats and exhaust throughout the rev range on a stock engine. No way, no how. Simply put, Nissan ain't going to botch fundamental engine design to the detriment of power (= detriment of MPG). Those things are meant for when an engine's VE and/or flow rate is increased substantially (i.e., cams + heads, forced induction, etc.).
What very little power is added by such things ain't even going to be detected on a chassis dyno by definition (i.e., within the noise of the accuracy/precision of the measuring system). And what little power (1-3 hp?) that is gained is at the expense of lower RPM driveability, esp. throttle response. Do it for looks, do it for sound, but it ain't gonna help with performance or power (on a stock engine).
You don't know anything about modifications, please stop offering advice.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 04, 2013, 08:05:57 PM
You don't know anything about modifications, please stop offering advice.
You're letting yourself get sold some snake oil if you truly believe you're gonna get that kind of power bump from fanboy bolt-ons.
Oh, and I've done 10x as much (engine) modding as you ;), so yes, I will continue to offer advice when I see bogus claims (or repeating of them).
Quote from: Onslaught on August 02, 2013, 05:56:47 PM
I'm talking about some of the other people.
I only had two settings. Full throttle and stopped.
Quote from: Raza on August 04, 2013, 08:52:16 PM
I only had two settings. Full throttle and stopped.
Sounds like me during sex. With or without someone else.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 04, 2013, 08:20:01 PM
You're letting yourself get sold some snake oil if you truly believe you're gonna get that kind of power bump from fanboy bolt-ons.
Oh, and I've done 10x as much (engine) modding as you ;), so yes, I will continue to offer advice when I see bogus claims (or repeating of them).
In the "limited" modding I've done I have seen results on chassis dynos, from the seat of my pants and at the drag strip
Are gains exaggerated sometimes? Sure, but they exist.
The idea that manufacturers go gung ho for power above all else is ridiculous. Noise regulations, emissions regulations, cost (i.e. stamping out an exhaust header rather than welding tubes), all of these things are of higher priority than making power. No manufacturer is going to put out a car that is illegal to sell just because it makes more horsepower; like I said you don't know what you're talking about, you've been out of the game close to a decade at least.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 05, 2013, 05:56:58 AM
In the "limited" modding I've done I have seen results on chassis dynos, from the seat of my pants and at the drag strip
Are gains exaggerated sometimes? Sure, but they exist.
The idea that manufacturers go gung ho for power above all else is ridiculous. Noise regulations, emissions regulations, cost (i.e. stamping out an exhaust header rather than welding tubes), all of these things are of higher priority than making power. No manufacturer is going to put out a car that is illegal to sell just because it makes more horsepower; like I said you don't know what you're talking about, you've been out of the game close to a decade at least.
You forget your basic engineering principals - a restriction of 20 WHP equals a notable reduction in MPG. No knowledge or experience is needed here actually - basic logic tells us NO automaker today is going to spend $100s of MM in developing a new power train yet somehow leave 20 WHP and lost MPG on the table by botching the intake, cats, exhaust, CAI, "grounding" straps, or w/e.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 05, 2013, 08:12:59 AM
You forget your basic engineering principals - a restriction of 20 WHP equals a notable reduction in MPG. No knowledge or experience is needed here actually - basic logic tells us NO automaker today is going to spend $100s of MM in developing a new power train yet somehow leave 20 WHP and lost MPG on the table by botching the intake, cats, exhaust, CAI, "grounding" straps, or w/e.
You forgot the fact that MPG and HP aren't the only constraints powertrain engineers have to work to. Again, emissions, noise and costs are all potential choke points to reduce MPG & HP and where these mods help liberate power.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 05, 2013, 10:05:01 AM
You forgot the fact that MPG and HP aren't the only constraints powertrain engineers have to work to. Again, emissions, noise and costs are all potential choke points to reduce MPG & HP and where these mods help liberate power.
There are no emissions and cost compromises in the intake, cats and exhaust of a modern car. Far too much is at stake, and too much money is spent, for that to be the case. What comprise there is in noise by definition isn't going to be detected on a chassis dyno (= won't aid performance).
All this talk of mods has me dying to go get a K&N air filter for my S4. Surely that will result in at least 25 horsepower??? :lol:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on August 05, 2013, 11:20:43 AM
All this talk of mods has me dying to go get a K&N air filter for my S4. Surely that will result in at least 25 horsepower??? :lol:
Even more if you put a K&N sticker on it too!
Quote from: GoCougs on August 05, 2013, 11:09:34 AM
There are no emissions and cost compromises in the intake, cats and exhaust of a modern car. Far too much is at stake, and too much money is spent, for that to be the case. What comprise there is in noise by definition isn't going to be detected on a chassis dyno (= won't aid performance).
Of course there are compromises. You think cars are made with unlimited budgets for each component? Come on Cougs you are smarter than that, I thought you worked in manufacturing. And a catalytic converter in itself is a compromise for emissions- why would a manufacturer throw this huge exhaust impediment full of precious metals into a $15K Nissan Versa if they didn't have to? Intakes do impede flow to baffle noise, and that becomes a problem as flow increases... which is why intakes tend to make more power on the top end. A chassis dyno is no more or less valid than an engine dyno done with all the accessories and crap hooked up as the SAE requires. You don't know what you're talking about.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 05, 2013, 11:09:34 AM
There are no emissions and cost compromises in the intake, cats and exhaust of a modern car. Far too much is at stake, and too much money is spent, for that to be the case. What comprise there is in noise by definition isn't going to be detected on a chassis dyno (= won't aid performance).
Yes and that's why car companies never get more power out of their engines from the time they introduce them to when they take them out of production...oh wait....
Damn, Sporty, seeing your 350Z in your sig makes me want to buy one again, even though I know I didn't like driving them. They are so good looking.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 05, 2013, 12:49:43 PM
Of course there are compromises. You think cars are made with unlimited budgets for each component? Come on Cougs you are smarter than that, I thought you worked in manufacturing. And a catalytic converter in itself is a compromise for emissions- why would a manufacturer throw this huge exhaust impediment full of precious metals into a $15K Nissan Versa if they didn't have to? Intakes do impede flow to baffle noise, and that becomes a problem as flow increases... which is why intakes tend to make more power on the top end. A chassis dyno is no more or less valid than an engine dyno done with all the accessories and crap hooked up as the SAE requires. You don't know what you're talking about.
Restricting flow = restricting MPG (and power) and in this EPA day and age, a modern automaker ain't going to spend $100MM+ to develop an engine and botch fundamental engine design to that extent. Without even getting bogged down in the technical details you know these two things to be true.
Be careful that strawman - I said chassis dynos are by definition worthless for small/inconsequential power increases owing to their innate repeatibility, accuracy, precision (IMO ~5% or at 300 WHP +/- ~15 hp).
Quote from: Raza on August 05, 2013, 01:31:31 PM
Damn, Sporty, seeing your 350Z in your sig makes me want to buy one again, even though I know I didn't like driving them. They are so good looking.
Thanks :praise:
It's definitely a blunt tool, which doesn't jive with your enjoyment in feel and precision. It has good power, but the throttle response isn't very sharp. It has tons of grip and steering heft, but I don't get much of a sense of how much grip I'm using or have left. So I can definitely see why you would hate it. It's way more of a GT than a sports car... basically a 2 seat G35 with less sound deadening and a harsher suspension. I like it though.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 05, 2013, 01:39:15 PM
Restricting flow = restricting MPG (and power) and in this EPA day and age, a modern automaker ain't going to spend $100MM+ to develop an engine and botch fundamental engine design to that extent. Without even getting bogged down in the technical details you know these two things to be true.
Be careful that strawman - I said chassis dynos are by definition worthless for small/inconsequential power increases owing to their innate repeatibility, accuracy, precision (IMO ~5% or at 300 WHP +/- ~15 hp).
Again, MPG & HP aren't the only parameters they tune for. A muffler is bad for MPG & HP. A cat is bad for MPG & HP. Hell, an air filter is bad for MPG & HP. Not sure why you are having so much trouble understanding this concept.
And I'm not sure where you are coming up with dynos being 5% off. Most dynos are pretty precise. No dyno is going to read crankshaft power accurately, but no dyno is going to have 5% swings on a baseline for example. Plus any dyno worth anything will have correction factors for ambient conditions. So I agree, dynos might not be accurate, but they are very precise and good tools for evaluating changes from mods. Again, chassis and engine dynos operate on the same principles; pretty strange that you put blind faith in one and completely disregard the other
Quote from: SVT666 on August 05, 2013, 12:52:10 PM
Yes and that's why car companies never get more power out of their engines from the time they introduce them to when they take them out of production...oh wait....
As an example simply research the power progression in the VQ in the FM cars or the LSx in the Corvette. Those 10-30 hp bumps come from bigger cams, bigger valves, higher CR, higher red line, more displacement, etc.
Again, logic tells us this - simple things like CAI, cats and exhaust can't be improved infinitely - at some point no more improvement is possible. Since those elements are relatively easy to refine by the time a car hits the market those elements are already refined to their maximum. Ergo, the small power bumps coming from hard-won battles vis-a-vis the elements I listed for the VQ and LSx.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 05, 2013, 01:58:52 PM
Again, MPG & HP aren't the only parameters they tune for. A muffler is bad for MPG & HP. A cat is bad for MPG & HP. Hell, an air filter is bad for MPG & HP. Not sure why you are having so much trouble understanding this concept.
And I'm not sure where you are coming up with dynos being 5% off. Most dynos are pretty precise. No dyno is going to read crankshaft power accurately, but no dyno is going to have 5% swings on a baseline for example. Plus any dyno worth anything will have correction factors for ambient conditions. So I agree, dynos might not be accurate, but they are very precise and good tools for evaluating changes from mods. Again, chassis and engine dynos operate on the same principles; pretty strange that you put blind faith in one and completely disregard the other
Meh, IMO your ignoring your engineering fundamentals. Run open pipes on your car (or better yet, your bike, or best yet, a two-stroke bike) and tell us what happens to performance...
Simply Google "2011 mustang gt stock dyno" and see the range of anything from 340 - 395 WHP as an example of how sucky inertial chassis dynos can be (the real number should be ~350 hp).
Lots of things affect (inertial) chassis dyno accuracy, precision and repeatibility beyond ambient conditions - tire pressure, tread depth, tie-down tension, diff/tranny fluid temp, differing wheel/tire diameter, and inability to account for inertia of the drive train, being the biggies that immediately come to mind.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 05, 2013, 02:27:32 PM
As an example simply research the power progression in the VQ in the FM cars or the LSx in the Corvette. Those 10-30 hp bumps come from bigger cams, bigger valves, higher CR, higher red line, more displacement, etc.
Again, logic tells us this - simple things like CAI, cats and exhaust can't be improved infinitely - at some point no more improvement is possible. Since those elements are relatively easy to refine by the time a car hits the market those elements are already refined to their maximum. Ergo, the small power bumps coming from hard-won battles vis-a-vis the elements I listed for the VQ and LSx.
Higher flow cats aren't going to have the longevity or deliver the same clean emissions as what is spec'ed by the OEMs. Given the emissions requirements, they are going to compromise power and MPGs to hit their emissions targets. 'Tis better to sell a slightly choked car than no car at all.
That said, 20 WHP does seem a bit much for bolt-ons. Especially for a relatively new car. Maybe 15-20 at the crank, depending on how restrictive the OEM cats are.
And inertial dynos are junk if you also change anything in the driveline (including wheels and tires) between your baseline and your post-mod run.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 05, 2013, 03:02:03 PM
Meh, IMO your ignoring your engineering fundamentals. Run open pipes on your car (or better yet, your bike, or best yet, a two-stroke bike) and tell us what happens to performance...
Simply Google "2011 mustang gt stock dyno" and see the range of anything from 340 - 395 WHP as an example of how sucky inertial chassis dynos can be (the real number should be ~350 hp).
Lots of things affect (inertial) chassis dyno accuracy, precision and repeatibility beyond ambient conditions - tire pressure, tread depth, tie-down tension, diff/tranny fluid temp, differing wheel/tire diameter, and inability to account for inertia of the drive train, being the biggies that immediately come to mind.
There's a healthy medium between open pipes and stock exhaust :huh: Plus you don't trust chassis dynos, so if open pipes did make power you wouldn't believe me :wtf:
Open pipes would sound fast at least...
Quote from: GoCougs on August 05, 2013, 01:39:15 PM
Restricting flow = restricting MPG (and power) and in this EPA day and age, a modern automaker ain't going to spend $100MM+ to develop an engine and botch fundamental engine design to that extent. Without even getting bogged down in the technical details you know these two things to be true.
Be careful that strawman - I said chassis dynos are by definition worthless for small/inconsequential power increases owing to their innate repeatibility, accuracy, precision (IMO ~5% or at 300 WHP +/- ~15 hp).
When, on an EPA mileage trace is a car like a 350Z even remotely close to full throttle? The restriction therefore during MPG testing is in the throttle plate itself: maximum flow of the piping and intake is a minimal factor here- as long as its less restrictive than a partially closed throttle plate.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 05, 2013, 03:08:28 PM
There's a healthy medium between open pipes and stock exhaust :huh: Plus you don't trust chassis dynos, so if open pipes did make power you wouldn't believe me :wtf:
Like I said, run open headers on your 350Z and report back to us - trust me, no chassis dyno necessary ;).
Quote from: MX793 on August 05, 2013, 03:05:23 PM
Higher flow cats aren't going to have the longevity or deliver the same clean emissions as what is spec'ed by the OEMs. Given the emissions requirements, they are going to compromise power and MPGs to hit their emissions targets. 'Tis better to sell a slightly choked car than no car at all.
That said, 20 WHP does seem a bit much for bolt-ons. Especially for a relatively new car. Maybe 15-20 at the crank, depending on how restrictive the OEM cats are.
And inertial dynos are junk if you also change anything in the driveline (including wheels and tires) between your baseline and your post-mod run.
The sum total of exhaust system design takes into account all elements - on a new car a cat is a non-issue WRT robbing any material amount of power (and as I think most of us know, infinite flow/zero back pressure is not a good thing WRT performance). There is probably some power loss with a cat, but not enough to reliably see on a chassis dyno (1-3 hp).
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 05, 2013, 03:18:58 PM
When, on an EPA mileage trace is a car like a 350Z even remotely close to full throttle? The restriction therefore during MPG testing is in the throttle plate itself: maximum flow of the piping and intake is a minimal factor here- as long as its less restrictive than a partially closed throttle plate.
Not sure I'd consider a throttle plate a restriction - it's a necessity - without it a gasoline engine won't run.
Steady-state flow isn't the only concern; it's the change in flow as in during acceleration. Anything in the intake track - filter, housing, piping, etc., - is a factor.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 05, 2013, 02:27:32 PM
As an example simply research the power progression in the VQ in the FM cars or the LSx in the Corvette. Those 10-30 hp bumps come from bigger cams, bigger valves, higher CR, higher red line, more displacement, etc.
Again, logic tells us this - simple things like CAI, cats and exhaust can't be improved infinitely - at some point no more improvement is possible. Since those elements are relatively easy to refine by the time a car hits the market those elements are already refined to their maximum. Ergo, the small power bumps coming from hard-won battles vis-a-vis the elements I listed for the VQ and LSx.
Automakers have to change cams, valves, compression ratio, etc. because if they changed the intake, exhaust, cat, etc. they would no longer meet the emissions, noise, and other targets.
It's all a compromise and the manufacturer's goal can be different than a performance-minded individual.
Huh? Most cars these days have several and/or multi stage catalytic converters that are restrictive as all hell.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 05, 2013, 03:43:10 PM
Not sure I'd consider a throttle plate a restriction - it's a necessity - without it a gasoline engine won't run.
Steady-state flow isn't the only concern; it's the change in flow as in during acceleration. Anything in the intake track - filter, housing, piping, etc., - is a factor.
Yes, it's a restriction; that's its purpose. And yes, an engine can run without one too.
A nice graphics kit is where the hidden horsepower lurks.
God damn this thing GRIPS
Its a blunt tool but it's a blunt tool I think I might need to take to a track day or 10
Lol @ Cougs, you are better at trolling than this. Lol @ this being a "non-issue" WRT exhaust flow
(http://www.2carpros.com/images/articles/engine/exhaust/catalytic_converter/catalytic_converter.jpg)
You make too much money to be this dumb
:popcorn:
Quote from: Catman on August 05, 2013, 07:06:09 PM
:popcorn:
You gonna share that, or you gonna be an ass?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on August 05, 2013, 07:39:06 PM
You gonna share that, or you gonna be an ass?
It has no salt and no butter. Do you still want some?
Quote from: Catman on August 05, 2013, 08:34:03 PM
It has no salt and no butter. Do you still want some?
You did that on purpose.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 05, 2013, 05:48:13 PM
God damn this thing GRIPS
Its a blunt tool but it's a blunt tool I think I might need to take to a track day or 10
Lol @ Cougs, you are better at trolling than this. Lol @ this being a "non-issue" WRT exhaust flow
(http://www.2carpros.com/images/articles/engine/exhaust/catalytic_converter/catalytic_converter.jpg)
You make too much money to be this dumb
He's right. GRM did testing on this a few years ago. Some of the aftermarket cats made more power than a test pipe.
Quote from: Catman on August 05, 2013, 08:34:03 PM
It has no salt and no butter. Do you still want some?
You got a hole in the bottom of the bag? If so then I want some.
Quote from: Catman on August 05, 2013, 07:06:09 PM
:popcorn:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on August 05, 2013, 07:39:06 PM
You gonna share that, or you gonna be an ass?
Quote from: Catman on August 05, 2013, 08:34:03 PM
It has no salt and no butter. Do you still want some?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on August 05, 2013, 08:35:54 PM
You did that on purpose.
:popcorn:
Mine has salt and butter. And bacon. Everything tastes better with bacon. :rockon:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 05, 2013, 05:48:13 PM
God damn this thing GRIPS
Its a blunt tool but it's a blunt tool I think I might need to take to a track day or 10
Lol @ Cougs, you are better at trolling than this. Lol @ this being a "non-issue" WRT exhaust flow
(http://www.2carpros.com/images/articles/engine/exhaust/catalytic_converter/catalytic_converter.jpg)
You make too much money to be this dumb
I see - someone who has plainly never cut apart a cat converter in his youth ;). If you think that the average modern car pushes 100 - 400+ hp through some sort of cloth mesh you're sorely mistaken.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 05, 2013, 09:09:21 PM
He's right. GRM did testing on this a few years ago. Some of the aftermarket cats made more power than a test pipe.
What many don't understand is WRT to air flow in an IC engine is less "restriction" or w/e is rarely the best (or even good) answer. If that were the case, we'd see ginormous air filter boxes, ginormous cats, ginormous mufflers, ginormous throttle bodies, and 3-4+" exhaust pipes. We don't see any of those. Getting air into and out of an engine is a complicated thing.
Again, I challenge Sporty o remove his air filter/CAI and run straight headers on his 350Z and report back to us on performance - particularly, driveability (esp. at part throttle), acceleration, and RWHP. As any ill-intentioned young man who has done such a thing can attest to (or its analog, such as running a weed eater or dirt bike without a muffler) the car will run like ass.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 05, 2013, 04:59:40 PM
Yes, it's a restriction; that's its purpose. And yes, an engine can run without one too.
A throttle's purpose is to create a vacuum on the intake thereby regulating airflow. An IC gasoline engine can run without a throttle, but it's gonna be running wide open ;).
Quote from: GoCougs on August 06, 2013, 01:09:04 AM
A throttle's purpose is to create a vacuum on the intake thereby regulating airflow. An IC gasoline engine can run without a throttle, but it's gonna be running wide open ;).
Gee, that's like not the same exact fucking thing using different words at all, is it?
But, BMW uses engines without throttle plates, and adjusts the timing and lift accordingly to change power.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 06, 2013, 01:12:11 AM
Gee, that's like not the same exact fucking thing using different words at all, is it?
But, BMW uses engines without throttle plates, and adjusts the timing and lift accordingly to change power.
No, not really, in context. A throttle doesn't exhaust to "restrict" airflow as a filter, cat, muffler or exhaust tubing.
The BMW Valvetronic system uses each individual intake valve as a throttle, so yes, there is a throttle plate.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 06, 2013, 01:15:52 AM
No, not really, in context. A throttle doesn't exhaust to "restrict" airflow as a filter, cat, muffler or exhaust tubing.
The BMW Valvetronic system uses each individual intake valve as a throttle, so yes, there is a throttle plate.
Oh god, you're an anal douche. Yes, its a restriction. It's entire purpose is to be a plate which restricts airflow into the engine. It is hard to believe you're being so thick about that. Wha the hell does it matter if its on the intake or exhaust side. What the hell does "a throttle doesn't exhaust" even mean? Like an intake filter exhausts anything?
And no, intake valves are not throttle plates. They're intake valves. To use your own words: "A throttle's purpose is to create a vacuum on the intake ": which is something that the intake valves absolutely do not do.
There are no restrictions in an engine's air stream, except when there are.
All this technical jargon is getting me confused.
Are you guys saying I shouldn't get the K&N air filter???
A renesis rotary engine has no intake/exhaust overlap... So no scavenger effect... So I can run a cat less 17" diameter exhaust and it would drive better then ever.
Quote from: r0tor on August 06, 2013, 07:10:41 AM
A renesis rotary engine has no intake/exhaust overlap... So no scavenger effect... So I can run a cat less 17" diameter exhaust and it would drive better then ever.
Except you'd have to raise the car and put on 35 inch mudders to clear that pipe!
Quote from: SJ_GTI on August 06, 2013, 06:43:03 AM
All this technical jargon is getting me confused.
Are you guys saying I shouldn't get the K&N air filter???
If the K&N is so good why doesn't the car come with it!
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 06, 2013, 01:24:50 AM
Oh god, you're an anal douche. Yes, its a restriction. It's entire purpose is to be a plate which restricts airflow into the engine. It is hard to believe you're being so thick about that. Wha the hell does it matter if its on the intake or exhaust side. What the hell does "a throttle doesn't exhaust" even mean? Like an intake filter exhausts anything?
And no, intake valves are not throttle plates. They're intake valves. To use your own words: "A throttle's purpose is to create a vacuum on the intake ": which is something that the intake valves absolutely do not do.
No, what's hard to communicate here apparently is it's not a "restriction" for restriction's sake (i.e., does not zap power such as other purported thingies).
Yes, intake valves are throttle plates in the case of Valvetronic. The "intake" is the combustion chamber rather than intake runner + combustion chamber.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 06, 2013, 10:02:57 AM
No, what's hard to communicate here apparently is it's not a "restriction" for restriction's sake (i.e., does not zap power such as other purported thingies).
Yes, intake valves are throttle plates in the case of Valvetronic. The "intake" is the combustion chamber rather than intake runner + combustion chamber.
Do all cars have Valvetronic
Quote from: GoCougs on August 06, 2013, 10:02:57 AM
No, what's hard to communicate here apparently is it's not a "restriction" for restriction's sake (i.e., does not zap power such as other purported thingies).
Yes, intake valves are throttle plates in the case of Valvetronic. The "intake" is the combustion chamber rather than intake runner + combustion chamber.
Absolutely it's a restriction for restriction's sake. Absolutely it reduces power. That's why when you open it, you start producing more power.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 06, 2013, 01:16:17 PM
Absolutely it's a restriction for restriction's sake. Absolutely it reduces power. That's why when you open it, you start producing more power.
Does a throttle reduce efficiency? (Yes, that is a trick question.)
Quote from: GoCougs on August 06, 2013, 01:35:38 PM
Does a throttle reduce efficiency? (Yes, that is a trick question.)
Can you make a point instead of speaking in riddles
The Riddler
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 06, 2013, 02:03:52 PM
Can you make a point instead of speaking in riddles
Is there a better way?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 06, 2013, 02:03:52 PM
Can you make a point instead of speaking in riddles
That's how he keeps up his image of intellectual superiority.
I've really been neglecting the bike. I can't remember the last time I rode it. Forecast says no rain until 1 PM today... I will ride it to the gym and save some gas. One gym trip in the Z is like a week's worth on the bike.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 07, 2013, 04:25:45 AM
I've really been neglecting the bike. I can't remember the last time I rode it. Forecast says no rain until 1 PM today... I will ride it to the gym and save some gas. One gym trip in the Z is like a week's worth on the bike.
See, it's been the opposite for me. Ever since I got the bike, I've been neglecting the car, although for me it's because I can't park the car anywhere on campus while I already have a motorcycle permit.
I will say though, the ability to drive somewhere without having to prepare to go out (putting on all the gear) and having the music and ac blasting is so nice. Plus my car sounds so nice and shifting a car is more rewarding than shifting a bike imo.
Quote from: thecarnut on August 07, 2013, 06:47:31 AM
See, it's been the opposite for me. Ever since I got the bike, I've been neglecting the car, although for me it's because I can't park the car anywhere on campus while I already have a motorcycle permit.
I will say though, the ability to drive somewhere without having to prepare to go out (putting on all the gear) and having the music and ac blasting is so nice. Plus my car sounds so nice and shifting a car is more rewarding than shifting a bike imo.
Car > bike!
Quote from: hotrodalex on August 06, 2013, 09:45:58 PM
That's how he keeps up his image of intellectual superiority.
There is nothing intellectual about a throttle plate. The point about asking about efficiency rams home the point that a restriction in this context implies a drop in efficiency or performance - throttles do no such thing.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 07, 2013, 08:43:51 AM
There is nothing intellectual about a throttle plate. The point about asking about efficiency rams home the point that a restriction in this context implies a drop in efficiency or performance - throttles do no such thing.
Umm, speaking specifically about thermodynamic efficiency or BSFC?
Absolutely, they do. (Hints: why did BMW go to such great lengths to eliminate them? Why do diesels get better efficiency in part?)
Speaking of WOT performance? No; because then the throttle is open!
The point being that EPA MPG testing is done with the throttle in semi closed positions; at which point the throttle itself is the main restriction in the intake.
When considering WOT performance only, other factors beside the throttle plate are limiting flow.
Quote from: thecarnut on August 07, 2013, 06:47:31 AM
See, it's been the opposite for me. Ever since I got the bike, I've been neglecting the car, although for me it's because I can't park the car anywhere on campus while I already have a motorcycle permit.
I will say though, the ability to drive somewhere without having to prepare to go out (putting on all the gear) and having the music and ac blasting is so nice. Plus my car sounds so nice and shifting a car is more rewarding than shifting a bike imo.
Well, when I got my motorcycle, my new carbon road bike (which I spent a year building and had finally completed ~2 weeks prior) immediately began collecting dust. New toys always get the most love. You are right about having to gear up though. It's a pain. Any time I might save being able to blast from light to light is lost in having to get dressed up. Plus I was reminded today of how much more hazard prone riding is. It was a little wet out, so the paint on the road was slick... had a little back end shimmy from that. There was also grass from landscaping all down the one twisty road on my gym route so I had to dial it back there. The more I ride the more I just want to go to a track so I don't have to worry about all that horseshit. The fun factor is wearing off for street riding for me.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 07, 2013, 10:12:51 AM
Well, when I got my motorcycle, my new carbon road bike (which I spent a year building and had finally completed ~2 weeks prior) immediately began collecting dust. New toys always get the most love. You are right about having to gear up though. It's a pain. Any time I might save being able to blast from light to light is lost in having to get dressed up. Plus I was reminded today of how much more hazard prone riding is. It was a little wet out, so the paint on the road was slick... had a little back end shimmy from that. There was also grass from landscaping all down the one twisty road on my gym route so I had to dial it back there. The more I ride the more I just want to go to a track so I don't have to worry about all that horseshit. The fun factor is wearing off for street riding for me.
All my riding is city traffic, and between the hot weather and smelling the fumes and sitting stationary in my gear on a hot bike in hot weather next to hot cars, riding has gotten pretty old for me already. I hate to say it but it is what it is.
Car: Pothole. That's annoying.
Bike: Pothole. I could die!
:lol:
Bumps on the street aren't too bad. I have caught air on my bike a few times and lived to talk about it :mask:
For me it's more like
Bike: Pothole. That kinda hurt
Car: Pothole... SHIT, DID I BEND A RIM???
Car rides a lot more busily than the bike too, surprisingly.
All the car traffic slows down for the railroad crossing. I don't even let off the throttle. :lol:
Quote from: Raza on August 07, 2013, 10:51:36 AM
Car: Pothole. That's annoying.
Bike: Pothole. I could die!
:lol:
Potholes are annoying. Gravel in the middle of a turn? Black ice? Inattentive douchenozzle drivers?
Those are dangerous
Potholes
Blown truck tires
Gravel
Sand
Blind drivers who can't see a bug ass car so no way in hell they see a bike.
A dislike of ambulances and hospitals.
All reasons my ass will never sit on a bike. Never have, never will. I'd fuck a prostitue without a condom before I got on a bike.
Quote from: Onslaught on August 07, 2013, 12:01:44 PM
Potholes
Blown truck tires
Gravel
Sand
Blind drivers who can't see a bug ass car so no way in hell they see a bike.
A dislike of ambulances and hospitals.
All reasons my ass will never sit on a bike. Never have, never will. I'd fuck a prostitue without a condom before I got on a bike.
So, you've been riding awhile I take it?
Miata is not far from a bike, aside from the extra 2 wheels
Quote from: Onslaught on August 07, 2013, 12:01:44 PM
Potholes
Blown truck tires
Gravel
Sand
Blind drivers who can't see a bug ass car so no way in hell they see a bike.
A dislike of ambulances and hospitals.
All reasons my ass will never sit on a bike. Never have, never will. I'd fuck a prostitue without a condom before I got on a bike.
The blown truck tire carcass laying in the middle of the road issue is, from my experience, a southern problem. Up here they're pretty quick about clearing that shit off of the road, or at least dragging it onto the shoulder and out of the driving lanes.
Quote from: MX793 on August 07, 2013, 03:27:43 PM
The blown truck tire carcass laying in the middle of the road issue is, from my experience, a southern problem. Up here they're pretty quick about clearing that shit off of the road, or at least dragging it onto the shoulder and out of the driving lanes.
We love them in Michigan, but that has a lot to do with our heavy 11 axle rigs which shed those things like a Pug sheds fur
Quote from: thecarnut on August 07, 2013, 10:23:26 AM
All my riding is city traffic, and between the hot weather and smelling the fumes and sitting stationary in my gear on a hot bike in hot weather next to hot cars, riding has gotten pretty old for me already. I hate to say it but it is what it is.
Since I don't commute to/from work whenever I ride it's mostly for fun. Even runs to the store are fun on the bike. Now on really hot days or if I'm out on the town I take the G8 so I don't have to suit up or have helmet hair when I get there. I can never say riding gets old to me. Maybe because we only get a few months a year to ride or because i have lots of friends that ride also! That really makes it fun!
Quote from: MX793 on August 07, 2013, 03:27:43 PM
The blown truck tire carcass laying in the middle of the road issue is, from my experience, a southern problem. Up here they're pretty quick about clearing that shit off of the road, or at least dragging it onto the shoulder and out of the driving lanes.
There's been the same blown tire on my street for the last week or two. In the middle of the street, no less.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 07, 2013, 01:57:58 PM
Miata is not far from a bike, aside from the extra 2 wheels
You get on your bike and I'll drive my miata and we can hit eachother and see who comes out better in the end.
I had a really weird deja vu moment today...
I fired up the Z to head to the gym... start to back it out of the spot... for a second I was taken back to my first Maxima
Obviously the engines are of the same family and of different tunes but it was just a weird moment. Makes me wonder what the VQ30DE could do with an aggressive build....
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 09, 2013, 10:26:16 AM
I had a really weird deja vu moment today...
I fired up the Z to head to the gym... start to back it out of the spot... for a second I was taken back to my first Maxima
Obviously the engines are of the same family and of different tunes but it was just a weird moment. Makes me wonder what the VQ30DE could do with an aggressive build....
Obviously nothing more than the factory produced, since they wring every last ounce of performance out of the engine in it's stock configuration. :huh:
Quote from: Cobra93 on August 09, 2013, 10:41:03 AM
Obviously nothing more that the factory produced, since they wring every last ounce of performance out of the engine in it's stock configuration. :huh:
Indeed. No compromises :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 09, 2013, 10:26:16 AM
I had a really weird deja vu moment today...
I fired up the Z to head to the gym... start to back it out of the spot... for a second I was taken back to my first Maxima
Obviously the engines are of the same family and of different tunes but it was just a weird moment. Makes me wonder what the VQ30DE could do with an aggressive build....
Why would you wonder? The bigger VQs are much better performing engines (VVEL).
Quote from: Cobra93 on August 09, 2013, 10:41:03 AM
Obviously nothing more that the factory produced, since they wring every last ounce of performance out of the engine in it's stock configuration. :huh:
Exactly.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 09, 2013, 11:20:41 AM
Why would you wonder? The bigger VQs are much better performing engines (VVEL).
Meh VVEL didn't do much for peak power. Last VQ35DE made 300HP, VQ35HRs make ~310, and according to you there is no more power to be made than from what OEMs muster. OEMs make no concessions for cost, longevity, emissions, noise, etc... you are right, it would be a fruitless endeavor.
VVEL eliminates throttling losses which has efficiency benefits across the board...
Why would anyone want to build a VQ engine with no concessions for cost? That doesn't even make sense...
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 09, 2013, 03:54:27 PM
Meh VVEL didn't do much for peak power. Last VQ35DE made 300HP, VQ35HRs make ~310, and according to you there is no more power to be made than from what OEMs muster. OEMs make no concessions for cost, longevity, emissions, noise, etc... you are right, it would be a fruitless endeavor.
Do you want more "peak power" or do you want more performance? A 330 hp VQ30DE (non VVEL) would be an absolute bitch on the street to drive and otherwise offer much less performance than the ~330 hp VQ37HR owing to abysmal low/mid RPM performance. Ergo, the Nissan's development of the VQ37HR.
If there was more power to "muster" OEMs would wave their magic wand and it would happen. Such as it is, that doesn't happen - they have to work pretty hard for it by increasing VE (increasing CR, # valves, displacement, RPM, valve lift, etc.) and using new tech (DI, VVEL, etc.) all the while being mindful of the practicalities (stronger blocks, better recip assemblies, etc.).
Quote from: GoCougs on August 09, 2013, 05:21:16 PM
Do you want more "peak power" or do you want more performance? A 330 hp VQ30DE (non VVEL) would be an absolute bitch on the street to drive and otherwise offer much less performance than the ~330 hp VQ37HR owing to abysmal low/mid RPM performance. Ergo, the Nissan's development of the VQ37HR.
If there was more power to "muster" OEMs would wave their magic wand and it would happen. Such as it is, that doesn't happen - they have to work pretty hard for it by increasing VE (increasing CR, # valves, displacement, RPM, valve lift, etc.) and using new tech (DI, VVEL, etc.) all the while being mindful of the practicalities (stronger blocks, better recip assemblies, etc.).
This build wouldn't have the OEM limitations of noise, emissions, or cost to hold it back. Nissan left plenty on the table... low cost heavy lowish compression cast pistons & steel valves/valvesprings, emissions friendly cams, catalytic converters and tuning, noise friendly intake and exhausts... hell, VVEL itself was made to avoid the cost and complexity of turbocharging. OEMs leave plenty on the table, there are at least 3-4 things that come before horsepower.
:facepalm:
This is why I don't bring friends home. FFS, you guys.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 09, 2013, 07:14:33 PM
This build wouldn't have the OEM limitations of noise, emissions, or cost to hold it back. Nissan left plenty on the table... low cost heavy lowish compression cast pistons & steel valves/valvesprings, emissions friendly cams, catalytic converters and tuning, noise friendly intake and exhausts... hell, VVEL itself was made to avoid the cost and complexity of turbocharging. OEMs leave plenty on the table, there are at least 3-4 things that come before horsepower.
IOW, you'd do what Nissan did with the VQ35 and VQ37 except it wouldn't work as well ;).
Im on the fence
30th bday is in a month (September 15th) :banghead:
Do I get intake/exhaust for the car or do a track day on the bike?
I am leaning towards the track day as it will be cheaper and I won't be able to do one for Xmas
Maybe I will do the track day and just the intake
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2013, 09:23:20 AM
Im on the fence
30th bday is in a month (September 15th) :banghead:
Do I get intake/exhaust for the car or do a track day on the bike?
I am leaning towards the track day as it will be cheaper and I won't be able to do one for Xmas
Maybe I will do the track day and just the intake
30th? You're younger than I thought you were.
Do the track day. Even though it is temporary, the adrenaline rush is way better than the satisfaction you will get from the intake and exhaust.
Intake and exhaust will last for years.
Track day on a bike will last for years too because you'll be recovering from you injury's! :devil:
Quote from: Onslaught on August 14, 2013, 02:19:49 PM
Intake and exhaust will last for years.
Track day on a bike will last for years too because you'll be recovering from you injury's! :devil:
:shakesfist:................................ :lol:
Finally starting to get into a rhythm with this thing. Shifts are way less clunky and I am starting to be able to rev match w/o thinking. I know I was thinking about doing the track day on my bike for my bday but I have to do too much shit to get that in order. I think I will just get the JWT intake, new trunk struts and call it a day. I gotta do an oil + brake fluid change on the bike and probably do an oil change on wifey's car soon too.
I know what you mean. I was a little clunky on downshifts with the Z4 at the beginning because the clutch engages way higher in the travel than where it engaged in the Jetta. I'd blip at half (where the Jetta was), and then have to blip again towards the top. Now I'm perfect with it.
Intake should get you atleast 20HP, go for it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 23, 2013, 08:09:16 AM
Finally starting to get into a rhythm with this thing. Shifts are way less clunky and I am starting to be able to rev match w/o thinking. I know I was thinking about doing the track day on my bike for my bday but I have to do too much shit to get that in order. I think I will just get the JWT intake, new trunk struts and call it a day. I gotta do an oil + brake fluid change on the bike and probably do an oil change on wifey's car soon too.
Your 26" thighs must have been pushing the clutch too hard.
Quote from: thecarnut on August 23, 2013, 08:28:21 AM
Your 26" thighs must have been pushing the clutch too hard.
Hurt feelings, you have them.
I am at a point in this car where I can do things w/o thinking. Feels great
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 23, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Hurt feelings, you have them.
I am at a point in this car where I can do things w/o thinking. Feels great
Nobody's butthurt here. :huh:
I was just making a jab at you using your muscles as an excuse as to why you can't swim. :lol:
Got the tire pressure up to proper levels....
NC demands folks get in state licenses to register cars... I guess to stop insurance fraud. I passed, but now my tags are expired... plates should be coming somewhere early next week. Just hope it doesn't rain :(
Cant drive till a photo copy of my license comes in :cry:
O well, at least its sunny out :huh: BRRRRUMMM BRRRUMMMMMM
Once you have your temp license and proof of insurance, you should be able to register your title and get your NC plate on the spot, no bueno?
Quote from: Tave on August 27, 2013, 09:33:42 AM
Once you have your temp license and proof of insurance, you should be able to register your title and get your NC plate on the spot, no bueno?
Naw, they needed a copy of my NC license. I got my plates today. I feel like the first dealer we went to did something with the paperwork to make it go through.
---------------------------------------------
I'm starting to see why folks like Raza + Mr H don't like the Z. It's pretty blunt and a little sloppy at the extremes. But I look at it more like a SWB G35 than a sports car. Ater driving the 370Z today though I definitely want something sharper next go round, but at the same level of performance. Gonna be tough, I'm gonna have the Z for a while. Nice to be back on the road.
I got ~19MPG out of the last tank. Went and got ethanol free 93 today. All the boats run that to save their tanks. It cost a little more but I think it will make the car run better. My bike runs 87 but I am thinking about trying that ethanol free stuff for it too, supposedly ethanol wreaks havoc on tanks that sit and mine has some weak spots.
I found the 370Z to be much the same as the 350Z, just a little faster. Not really very impressive.
Yea it was downright eerie how similar they felt on the move. When you first get in the 370 you're impressed by the build quality. But on the go it feels like a 350 with much lighter steering. I was... disappointed? The reviews talked like it was some dynamic revelation.
Nobody has ever been impressed with the build quality on a Nissan. It's always worse than a Honda.
On the other hand, Nissan is happy to do what Honda won't. Honda has a mortal fear of horsepower and RWD.
Quote from: Laconian on August 30, 2013, 09:44:53 PM
On the other hand, Nissan is happy to do what Honda won't. Honda has a mortal fear of horsepower and RWD.
I thought it was just sporty cars in general. A respectable Japanese company does not build cars intended to be driven in an impolite manner.
Quote from: CJ on August 30, 2013, 09:42:49 PM
Nobody has ever been impressed with the build quality on a Nissan. It's always worse than a Honda.
No wa.... OK, aside from the Maxima you may be right.
But Honda's sporty offerings have been pretty fucking pathetic. I was just thinking today, so glad I didn't get another Accord- even the V6 6 speed coupe. They are boats
Quote from: CJ on August 30, 2013, 09:42:49 PM
Nobody has ever been impressed with the build quality on a Nissan. It's always worse than a Honda.
I find Honda's to be very overrated. I'm a Japan car nut and I doubt I'll ever own a Honda unless it's an NSX. They don't suck, but they do nothing for me. And they seem to have problems with their paints lasting.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 30, 2013, 09:25:41 PM
Yea it was downright eerie how similar they felt on the move. When you first get in the 370 you're impressed by the build quality. But on the go it feels like a 350 with much lighter steering. I was... disappointed? The reviews talked like it was some dynamic revelation.
Maybe when you start pushing it at 9+/10s on a track the differences start to show, but yeah, I wouldn't expect massive differences in character at road speeds.
I got 22mpg last tank in my oil guzzling envoroment destroying gas hog... you sure your engines not blowing up?
Quote from: r0tor on August 31, 2013, 08:33:02 AM
I got 22mpg last tank in my oil guzzling envoroment destroying gas hog... you sure your engines not blowing up?
Yeah but your tank prob had a lot of highway driving and proper tire pressure
My tires were 5 psi low all around and most of my driving was to the gym or grocery store 3 miles away. I was getting 16 mpg on this tank before I pumped the tires, next tank will be at least 20
Plus you are so butt hurt about gas mileage, even when you win you lose. I remember how steamed you were about that Fusion hybrid derate :lol:
And my car is faster... No contest
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20 around town sounds reasonable. I got 21.5 on my last tank with almost all of my mileage just running back and forth to work or running errands around town. All relatively short trips (<7 miles) with some stop-and-go at speeds <45 mph.
I'd rather have an RX-8 than a 350Z. If only there was a way to guarantee that the motor wouldn't wear out in 5000 miles.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 31, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
I'd rather have an RX-8 than a 350Z. If only there was a way to guarantee that the motor wouldn't wear out in 5000 miles.
That's not possible. I have 12 motors at the house now. One for every month.
Z cars are cool. I needed something with more room. But nothing wrong with a Z.
Quote from: Laconian on August 30, 2013, 09:44:53 PM
On the other hand, Nissan is happy to do what Honda won't. Honda has a mortal fear of horsepower and RWD.
It's a tradeoff that I'll suffer.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 30, 2013, 10:04:01 PM
No wa.... OK, aside from the Maxima you may be right.
But Honda's sporty offerings have been pretty fucking pathetic. I was just thinking today, so glad I didn't get another Accord- even the V6 6 speed coupe. They are boats
Fucking fast boats.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 31, 2013, 08:51:31 AM
Yeah but your tank prob had a lot of highway driving and proper tire pressure
My tires were 5 psi low all around and most of my driving was to the gym or grocery store 3 miles away. I was getting 16 mpg on this tank before I pumped the tires, next tank will be at least 20
Plus you are so butt hurt about gas mileage, even when you win you lose. I remember how steamed you were about that Fusion hybrid derate :lol:
And my car is faster... No contest
Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
Next to no highway on that 22mpg
Their fusion is still getting 47mpg and has not been derated
... and that comes down to high fast your 26" thighs can work the clutch
Quote from: r0tor on August 31, 2013, 06:38:35 PM
Next to no highway on that 22mpg
Their fusion is still getting 47mpg and has not been derated
... and that comes down to high fast your 26" thighs can work the clutch
The butt hurt is at high tide in rot0rville
Dont forget to count motor oil in that calculation :evildude: Good luck
Quote from: Onslaught on August 31, 2013, 12:11:37 PM
Z cars are cool. I needed something with more room. But nothing wrong with a Z.
Yea the layout with the strut bar sucks. Really stupid design. They fixed it somewhat with the 370, pulling the back wheels closer to the seats when they shrank the wheelbase. But they didn't completely fix that either. Really weird.
But again, for now, it's perfect. Good night out/road trip car, aside from the damn tire noise.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 31, 2013, 08:09:46 PM
Yea the layout with the strut bar sucks. Really stupid design. They fixed it somewhat with the 370, pulling the back wheels closer to the seats when they shrank the wheelbase. But they didn't completely fix that either. Really weird.
But again, for now, it's perfect. Good night out/road trip car, aside from the damn tire noise.
More then enough room in a Z car for most stuff. But I needed a trunk that could hold 2 golf bags and stuff for trips.
:wtf
In the other thread, you say the 370 is possibly best in class, in this thread you rip it.
You need to test drive some other stuff man
Quote from: MrH on August 31, 2013, 10:03:48 PM
:wtf
In the other thread, you say the 370 is possibly best in class, in this thread you rip it.
You need to test drive some other stuff man
Whats confusing about this
I still do like the Z over its competition (Mustang, Camaro, Genesis, BR-Z :ohyeah:, Miata), but I didn't see the massive dynamic improvement the reviews said there would be. Not sure how that means I don't think it's the best in class, or how that is ripping it, but then this wouldn't be the first time you grasped at straws for a back and forth now would it :huh: If I had to buy something in that class it would be the Z; next go round though I probably won't be buying something in that class. Do you need me to explain further?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 31, 2013, 08:07:35 PM
The butt hurt is at high tide in rot0rville
Dont forget to count motor oil in that calculation :evildude: Good luck
The fusion hybrid has still not been derated no matter what you think BTW
Quote from: r0tor on September 01, 2013, 10:08:17 AM
The fusion hybrid has still not been derated no matter what you think BTW
Here's the thing; I really don't care, its just funny to see you get wound up over your parents gas mileage
Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 01, 2013, 03:50:34 AM
Whats confusing about this
I still do like the Z over its competition (Mustang, Camaro, Genesis, BR-Z :ohyeah:, Miata), but I didn't see the massive dynamic improvement the reviews said there would be. Not sure how that means I don't think it's the best in class, or how that is ripping it, but then this wouldn't be the first time you grasped at straws for a back and forth now would it :huh: If I had to buy something in that class it would be the Z; next go round though I probably won't be buying something in that class. Do you need me to explain further?
If you consider that the 370Z's class, I'd say it's worst in class; at least it's the last one that I'd buy. It's nowhere near the sports car the MX-5 is, it's not as fun as the Mustang, the Camaro offers more pretty much everything, and the Genesis is about the same, but also has a back seat. I haven't driven the BRZ, but I'm sure it's sharper and has better feel.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 01, 2013, 03:50:34 AM
Whats confusing about this
I still do like the Z over its competition (Mustang, Camaro, Genesis, BR-Z :ohyeah:, Miata), but I didn't see the massive dynamic improvement the reviews said there would be. Not sure how that means I don't think it's the best in class, or how that is ripping it, but then this wouldn't be the first time you grasped at straws for a back and forth now would it :huh: If I had to buy something in that class it would be the Z; next go round though I probably won't be buying something in that class. Do you need me to explain further?
...have you driven anything else in the class?
Quote from: Laconian on August 30, 2013, 09:44:53 PM
On the other hand, Nissan is happy to do what Honda won't. Honda has a mortal fear of horsepower and RWD.
Few do the big hp + M/T + RWD trifecta (Toyota, Honda, Mazda, M-B, Audi, etc.). Others that do it don't do it well (BMW will stick you with a laggy antiquated failure-prone I6 and the Genesis Coupe would be a contender but despite big HP its never been the sum of its parts) or do it, shall we say, with too much flavor (pony cars).
Quote from: GoCougs on September 02, 2013, 10:32:20 AM
Few do the big hp + M/T + RWD trifecta (Toyota, Honda, Mazda, M-B, Audi, etc.). Others that do it don't do it well (BMW will stick you with a laggy antiquated failure-prone I6 and the Genesis Coupe would be a contender but despite big HP its never been the sum of its parts) or do it, shall we say, with too much flavor (pony cars).
So much Haterade in one tiny post! :mask:
Quote from: MrH on September 02, 2013, 10:28:32 AM
...have you driven anything else in the class?
I've driven Miatas and Mustangs. The Mustang was cool but not really my style. The Miata was like an S2000 with even less power and torque.
Quote from: Raza on September 02, 2013, 07:50:13 AM
If you consider that the 370Z's class, I'd say it's worst in class; at least it's the last one that I'd buy. It's nowhere near the sports car the MX-5 is, it's not as fun as the Mustang, the Camaro offers more pretty much everything, and the Genesis is about the same, but also has a back seat. I haven't driven the BRZ, but I'm sure it's sharper and has better feel.
Objectively, I'd prob say the Mustang is the best in class. Most power, most practicality, and I think the gas mileage is not much worse if at all than the 370Z. But it's just not my style at all, and if I were to get a Mustang it would be for $4K to fuck around with, not $40K as a daily driver. Its interior, with the button text from a 1986 Ford Tempo, is also offputting to me.
Miata is too slow like I said. I really hate the look of the Camaro. Genesis doesn't live up to its promises (I'd rather a used G3x coupe for the same money). BRZ is also way too slow, at least on paper. I don't ever want to own a car that can't do the quarter in less than 14 seconds after this one... that's just the level of performance I am accustomed to and that I like to have for the type of driving I do. The Prelude is not far off from the Miata/BRZ in a straight line... it was a dog. My last Maxima was in that class too... sounded awesome, but was also a dog. The 370Z looks good, is decently quick, but is a bit sloppy and not better than a 350Z at all aside from the interior.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 02, 2013, 10:39:52 AM
So much Haterade in one tiny post! :mask:
Huh? That was a small bit of brightness amongst all this hate and (curious) self-loathing...
Quote from: GoCougs on September 02, 2013, 10:32:20 AM
Few do the big hp + M/T + RWD trifecta (Toyota, Honda, Mazda, M-B, Audi, etc.). Others that do it don't do it well (BMW will stick you with a laggy antiquated failure-prone I6 and the Genesis Coupe would be a contender but despite big HP its never been the sum of its parts) or do it, shall we say, with too much flavor (pony cars).
WTF?
Quote from: SVT666 on September 02, 2013, 12:56:12 PM
WTF?
Hes right
Mustang/Camaro, at least in their current bulldog armored truck forms (more the Camaro) aren't everyone's cup of tea. I am hoping the next Mustang has a more generic look in and out... apart from its looks and size I really like what it's become.
I was "WTFing" his comments about the BMW I6....wait, did you just say you want the Mustang to have a generic look inside and out? Are you on crack?
Quote from: SVT666 on September 02, 2013, 02:04:59 PM
I was "WTFing" his comments about the BMW I6....wait, did you just say you want the Mustang to have a generic look inside and out? Are you on crack?
Generic doesn't have to mean bland or ugly. I dont want 1960s style gauge font or a distended rear window that tries to capture some old car's style. The next Mustang should look modern in and out.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 02, 2013, 02:04:59 PM
I was "WTFing" his comments about the BMW I6....
I assume he just means the issues with the turbo's water pump or whatever.
Quote from: ifcar on September 02, 2013, 02:54:52 PM
I assume he just means the issues with the turbo's water pump or whatever.
Which don't have anything to do with the cylinder layout.
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 02, 2013, 10:29:39 PM
Which don't have anything to do with the cylinder layout.
...or the fact that it's a great engine.
O god. Am I gonna have to get a subwoofer enclosure? I was playing with an oscilloscope app on my phone... this thing gets nothing under 40Hz, the dropoff is immediate. Another 10 in the stock location wouldn't be much better. But I don't want to be the douchebag with this trunk:
(http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/aqxz9.hyt6t/v/vspfiles/photos/Z112U-2.jpg?1314511743)
I am thinking about this with 2 12s... 1 active, 1 passive, shared air space (2.4 cf). Cover it up with the stock rug and put some grilles on. Stash the amp in the old sub's air space!!! Done and done. Box only weighs 35lbs, stock spare is like 25. Maybe for Xmas...
And no it wont be anywhere near loud enough to wake the dead. I just want my low end extension. I'll cut the weight with exhaust and wheels :lol: Mite do this with my next work check.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 03, 2013, 07:02:01 PM
O god. Am I gonna have to get a subwoofer enclosure? I was playing with an oscilloscope app on my phone... this thing gets nothing under 40Hz, the dropoff is immediate. Another 10 in the stock location wouldn't be much better. But I don't want to be the douchebag with this trunk:
(http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/aqxz9.hyt6t/v/vspfiles/photos/Z112U-2.jpg?1314511743)
I am thinking about this with 2 12s... 1 active, 1 passive, shared air space (2.4 cf). Cover it up with the stock rug and put some grilles on. Stash the amp in the old sub's air space!!! Done and done. Box only weighs 35lbs, stock spare is like 25. Maybe for Xmas...
And no it wont be anywhere near loud enough to wake the dead. I just want my low end extension. I'll cut the weight with exhaust and wheels :lol: Mite do this with my next work check.
I have two 10" Rockford Fosgate P1's in a homemade sealed enclosure and I hit 136 db with them with just 150W Max. (~75W RMS) each. 12" subs are overkill IMHO.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 03, 2013, 09:13:08 PM
I have two 10" Rockford Fosgate P1's in a homemade sealed enclosure and I hit 136 db with them with just 150W Max. (~75W RMS) each. 12" subs are overkill IMHO.
I agree.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 03, 2013, 09:13:08 PM
I have two 10" Rockford Fosgate P1's in a homemade sealed enclosure and I hit 136 db with them with just 150W Max. (~75W RMS) each. 12" subs are overkill IMHO.
I have 2 Cerwin Vega 12s in the G8 on a 150 watt CV amp and they're just enough for my Hip Hop and they provide that extra "Umph" to my old R&B tunes! Now the 4 Fosgate 12s (Punch competition amps) I had in my '94 Z28 or the 2 Earthquake 15s (Zues amps) I had in my '87 Blazer were definitely overkill!
Quote from: SVT666 on September 03, 2013, 09:13:08 PM
I have two 10" Rockford Fosgate P1's in a homemade sealed enclosure and I hit 136 db with them with just 150W Max. (~75W RMS) each. 12" subs are overkill IMHO.
Nah 10s are not enough mayne. The low end rolloff is no good, they don't get anywhere near low enough. I had an Alpine Type R 12 (which got stolen- thanks Obama :rolleyes: ) and then an RF 15, both in sealed boxes I think. That 15 was just right. It's a shame they don't make shallow mount 15s as I would def go for that. Now I have to find a 12 with good rolloff. I might go w/one of those JL 13s (my god are they expensive though). Or get the dude who builds these boxes to add a low tuned port. I def want that wobble, I want as linear a response as possible down to like 20Hz....
Not sure why you'd want/need one active and one passive sub. Unless you mean one active sub and a passive radiator...
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 04, 2013, 06:35:54 AM
Not sure why you'd want/need one active and one passive sub. Unless you mean one active sub and a passive radiator...
Yea that's what I meant, the one with no VC
Looking at this box, might have to figure something else out... only 1.2CF
total, not per sub. Douchebox might be the wave, though a box behind the strut bar would be more hidden....
Also, I support a 12" over a 10"...especially if you're not trying to turn the Z into a boomboxy rattlemobile.
A passive radiator does not require the same airspace as the subwoofer. It's not powered except by the movement of the air from the subwoofer itself. It takes up internal volume in the box which must be taken into account when tuning, but it does not require its "own" volume equivalent to that of the powered woofer.
The prob i'm seeing with a passive radiator is that it needs to have more surface area than the active woofer. So I would either need 3 12s or a 10 and a 12
Douchebox will give me about 2.5cf and a 30 hz port. I'm sure I can find a 10 that will get that low. Its prob the best option. I will get tints
Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
It does not have to be bigger. The same size or bigger is recommended. I've seen plenty of 12"-12" systems that will shake concrete walls. A PR is treated the same way as a port, because that's essentially what it is...a tuned mass that affects the woofer's excursion. The air inside a port is exactly that. Adding/removing mass to a PR is the same as changing the dimensions of a port. A PR is seen as advantageous in conditions where port length doesn't make sense for the box design and where port "noise" is an issue. But like any resonant system, it loses transient response compared to a sealed enclosure.
The other thing to consider is that a PR system will give you a sharper roll-off on the low end compared to a port, with a slight bump at the resonant frequency of the PR (just like you'll get a bump at the resonant/tuning frequency of a port).
There are plenty of 10" subwoofers that will go down to 30Hz. You're looking in the wrong places if you can't find one. You could get a 30Hz tuning from a box half that size. Easily.
Is there a way to replace your wheels with 20" subs?
Mine hit 30Hz. 12" subs get down to 25 and I highly doubt you will notice the difference.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 03, 2013, 07:02:01 PM
O god. Am I gonna have to get a subwoofer enclosure? I was playing with an oscilloscope app on my phone... this thing gets nothing under 40Hz, the dropoff is immediate. Another 10 in the stock location wouldn't be much better. But I don't want to be the douchebag with this trunk:
(http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/aqxz9.hyt6t/v/vspfiles/photos/Z112U-2.jpg?1314511743)
I am thinking about this with 2 12s... 1 active, 1 passive, shared air space (2.4 cf). Cover it up with the stock rug and put some grilles on. Stash the amp in the old sub's air space!!! Done and done. Box only weighs 35lbs, stock spare is like 25. Maybe for Xmas...
And no it wont be anywhere near loud enough to wake the dead. I just want my low end extension. I'll cut the weight with exhaust and wheels :lol: Mite do this with my next work check.
Hmm... What instruments actually get below 40hz?
Edit: Nevermind, quite a few, as it turns out: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm (http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm)
(I use this chart when mixing live audio... very helpful tool).
Quote from: S204STi on September 04, 2013, 08:23:32 AM
Hmm... What instruments actually get below 40hz?
Edit: Nevermind, quite a few, as it turns out: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm (http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm)
(I use this chart when mixing live audio... very helpful tool).
There is only instrument on that chart that gets below what a 10" sub can produce.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 04, 2013, 08:30:33 AM
There is only instrument on that chart that gets below what a 10" sub can produce.
Yeah, that's a good point. Below 40hz you aren't missing a whole lot; 30hz is likely more than adequate.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 04, 2013, 08:23:01 AM
Mine hit 30Hz. 12" subs get down to 25 and I highly doubt you will notice the difference.
My sub hits 30Hz too, it just hits it probably about -10 to -15 dB lower than 50Hz
I mean from 40 to 30 Hz you could hear/feel the drop off (I didn't measure it)
But a good 10 in a tuned box should be OK I guess.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 04, 2013, 08:30:33 AM
There is only instrument on that chart that gets below what a 10" sub can produce.
Electronic music (i.e. anything with an 808 bassline) can get lower. It's annoying to be listening to a song and have every other bass note drop out because the sub can't reach... That's what I'm really trying to avoid.
Quote from: Raza on September 04, 2013, 08:17:06 AM
Is there a way to replace your wheels with 20" subs?
too expensive.
I personally can't afford subwoofers so I just throw 50lbs worth of cinder blocks in the trunk. Really keeps the rear end planted.
http://tcsounds.com/product/drivers/epic-driver/ (http://tcsounds.com/product/drivers/epic-driver/)
Hmmm that 8 sounds intriguing, 29Hz F3 in a ported box, only needs 1/3cf to bang. I could put 3 in a custom 1 foot box lmao.
Yeah man. You don't need a 2.5cf box to get low. :lol:
I've heard two of those in 12" form do dirrrrrty things in a 180,000+cf room. :mask:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 04, 2013, 09:07:12 AM
My sub hits 30Hz too, it just hits it probably about -10 to -15 dB lower than 50Hz
I mean from 40 to 30 Hz you could hear/feel the drop off (I didn't measure it)
But a good 10 in a tuned box should be OK I guess.
Electronic music (i.e. anything with an 808 bassline) can get lower. It's annoying to be listening to a song and have every other bass note drop out because the sub can't reach... That's what I'm really trying to avoid.
THER IS NOTHING worse than subs that can't handle those 808 drops!
Other than the 808 drops themselves...
What the fuck are you guys talking about? Buy a car, drive it hard, job done.
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 09:27:30 AM
What the fuck are you guys talking about? Buy a car, drive it hard, job done.
No no no, you have to put a couple hundred pounds of audio equipment in it.
Gotta make that dubstep shake the car apart.
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 09:27:30 AM
What the fuck are you guys talking about? Buy a car, drive it hard, job done.
Given the amount of time some of us spend in our cars, having decent sound is a nice thing to have. :huh:
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 10:07:33 AM
Given the amount of time some of us spend in our cars, having decent sound is a nice thing to have. :huh:
I have a fantastic sound system in my car. Came stock, too. BMW NA inline 6. :muffin:
^"Purist" here is better than all of you imbeciles
This is pretty funny, though. Sporty complaining about weight and proceeding to add pounds upon pounds of wubwub goodness
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 10:07:33 AM
Given the amount of time some of us spend in our cars, having decent sound is a nice thing to have. :huh:
then buy a headunit and some decent speakers(to replace factory ones).
I have no problem with bass, but factory speakers for mid's and high's are garbage. So if someone is only adding a few subs and an amp without addressing the "main" sound spectrum, they are just adding noise and weight IMO.
Plus, a good components system with a 6.5" driver(some even offer 8") in the doors and on the rear deck will sound great and add little to nothing when it comes to space and weight.
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
I have a fantastic sound system in my car. Came stock, too. BMW NA inline 6.
And what about those 8-hour drives where listening to the same engine note gets boring as hell and you wanna jam some freeway tunes. Can one not ensure that said freeway tunes sound fantastic?
Quote from: CALL_911 on September 05, 2013, 10:10:45 AM
^"Purist" here is better than all of you imbeciles
This is pretty funny, though. Sporty complaining about weight and proceeding to add pounds upon pounds of wubwub goodness
Pretty much, it's dead weight and will surely compliment those below average mid's and highs of the stock system.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 10:13:31 AM
And what about those 8-hour drives where listening to the same engine note gets boring as hell and you wanna jam some freeway tunes. Can one not ensure that said freeway tunes sound fantastic?
The wind is my radio.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 05, 2013, 10:12:36 AM
then buy a headunit and some decent speakers(to replace factory ones).
I have no problem with bass, but factory speakers for mid's and high's are garbage. So if someone is only adding a few subs and an amp without addressing the "main" sound spectrum, they are just adding noise and weight IMO.
Plus, a good components system with a 6.5" driver(some even offer 8") in the doors and on the rear deck will sound great and add little to nothing when it comes to space and weight.
No shit. But if he's currently happy with the way the rest of the system sounds, what does it matter if he wants to clean up and add the bass first? Not like he can't upgrade the rest later if he wants to.
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 10:14:23 AM
The wind is my radio.
Wow. Your passion for music is astounding. :lol:
:huh:
I guess, whatever makes you happy.
My primary use for a vehicle is driving. I do play music and enjoy a good sounding system(clarity and range), but I don't want to or need to be distracted from my primary focus. Which is driving, most people need less distractions in their car, not more.
So you like to listen to music while you drive. But if someone wants to put a better subwoofer in their car music is suddenly an unnecessary distraction?
:confused:
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 10:16:35 AM
Wow. Your passion for music is astounding. :lol:
:lol:
I love music, I just don't have the ears to be able to distinguish "good" or "very good" speakers from "great" or "excellent". In my car, as long as I can hear it, I'm fine. I play my iPod through an FM transmitter...I'm no audiophile.
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 11:02:36 AM
:lol:
I love music, I just don't have the ears to be able to distinguish "good" or "very good" speakers from "great" or "excellent". In my car, as long as I can hear it, I'm fine. I play my iPod through an FM transmitter...I'm no audiophile.
Hey, nothin' wrong with that. :huh: :ohyeah:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 05, 2013, 10:12:36 AM
So if someone is only adding a few subs and an amp without addressing the "main" sound spectrum, they are just adding noise and weight IMO.
Who said I wouldn't? I have replaced the main speakers in pretty much all my cars.
Quote from: CALL_911 on September 05, 2013, 10:10:45 AM
^"Purist" here is better than all of you imbeciles
This is pretty funny, though. Sporty complaining about weight and proceeding to add pounds upon pounds of wubwub goodness
Meh when I want "purity", light weight and no music I have the bike. This car is a GT, not sure why having a nice stereo in it that will probably add 50lb at most is such blasphemy. I have always had aftermarket stereos in my cars... like I said the last car I had had 1 15" in it. This is a street car, not some track rat.
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 11:02:36 AM
:lol:
I love music, I just don't have the ears to be able to distinguish "good" or "very good" speakers from "great" or "excellent". In my car, as long as I can hear it, I'm fine. I play my iPod through an FM transmitter...I'm no audiophile.
Then dont advise an audiophile on what equipment to get :mask:
I didn't give you any equipment advice, did I?
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
I have a fantastic sound system in my car. Came stock, too. BMW NA inline 6. :muffin:
+juan
BTW, not hatin' on your audio, Sporty. Do what you gotta do, it's just lower on my list of priorities. Though, I would like to replace my stock door speakers, and eventually get a nicer touch-screen head unit with Nav.
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
I have a fantastic sound system in my car. Came stock, too. BMW NA inline 6. :muffin:
My LS3 sounds better..... :evildude:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 05, 2013, 12:44:37 PM
My LS3 sounds better..... :evildude:
I don't know, there is nothing worse than a beautiful sounding v8 droning as it lazily slips between gears.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 10:22:20 AM
So you like to listen to music while you drive. But if someone wants to put a better subwoofer in their car music is suddenly an unnecessary distraction?
:confused:
If it's somebody who's previously made a big deal about performance cars being too heavy, then gets a heavy performance car and starts adding weight to it, it sounds a little weird.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 05, 2013, 12:44:37 PM
My LS3 sounds better..... :evildude:
LS3s sound pretty decent.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 02:23:59 PM
If it's somebody who's previously made a big deal about performance cars being too heavy, then gets a heavy performance car and starts adding weight to it, it sounds a little weird.
Kind of like when someone talks about how much they love track days and how this car or that car is just for track days, but then has never done a track day?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 02:23:59 PM
If it's somebody who's previously made a big deal about performance cars being too heavy, then gets a heavy performance car and starts adding weight to it, it sounds a little weird.
I still think performance cars are too heavy. But I had a budget and a list of things I wanted, and the 350Z was the best choice for me. Plus again, 50lb on a 3300lb car, right in the middle of it, is not the end of the world. But why bother hearing my thinking, when you can just skim and assume I'm being irrational? I guess that's more fun
Quote from: Rupert on September 05, 2013, 04:14:11 PM
Kind of like when someone talks about how much they love track days and how this car or that car is just for track days, but then has never done a track day?
Who said that?
Sporty is never allowed to go grocery shopping, because that would be adding weight to the car!
Who is the alpha bitch here? It seems like you broads periods are synced up
Is this a message board or an interrogation?
Interrogation, actually.
You do mention track days a lot, and how, oh, if you want to really drive fast, you'll just go to the track. So go to the track.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 02:23:59 PM
If it's somebody who's previously made a big deal about performance cars being too heavy, then gets a heavy performance car and starts adding weight to it, it sounds a little weird.
That has absolutely nothing to do with anything I was saying. :facepalm:
Quote from: Rupert on September 05, 2013, 04:24:09 PM
Interrogation, actually.
You do mention track days a lot, and how, oh, if you want to really drive fast, you'll just go to the track. So go to the track.
I cant afford to this year. Not sure if you know this but my wife and I just moved to a new state. Next year when we are more settled I will get more serious about it.
Driving fast on the street is stupid and illegal. I still do it, but I'm not going to pretend like it's my right to do so or whatever reasons dudes here use to rationalize it. I can't afford track time, so every now and then I might take it up to 100 or take a turn at the limits of adhesion. I'm no saint and I never claimed to be... I am just honest about what I do and the choices I make :huh:
Excuses, excuses, and from a guy who just bought a luxury sporty car...
Alright, I'll shut up.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 05, 2013, 04:16:30 PM
I still think performance cars are too heavy. But I had a budget and a list of things I wanted, and the 350Z was the best choice for me. Plus again, 50lb on a 3300lb car, right in the middle of it, is not the end of the world. But why bother hearing my thinking, when you can just skim and assume I'm being irrational? I guess that's more fun
Who said that?
Not irrational, just weird. It's your car, man, and your priorities. I just get the feeling the priorities you told us you had when you were looking for a car aren't the ones you have now.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 04:30:47 PM
That has absolutely nothing to do with anything I was saying. :facepalm:
Is it supposed to?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 06:07:14 PM
Not irrational, just weird. It's your car, man, and your priorities. I just get the feeling the priorities you told us you had when you were looking for a car aren't the ones you have now.
Sporty can make all the compromises to his radical car beliefs he preaches on here, but god forbid a car company ever does the same to sell more cars.
Quote from: MrH on September 05, 2013, 06:18:54 PM
Sporty can make all the compromises to his radical car beliefs he preaches on here, but god forbid a car company ever does the same to sell more cars.
All it makes me think is that he got the heavy car, drove it and decided that saving weight wasn't as important as he had previously thought.
New cars can make people readjust their parameters, that's all. It's kind of amusing that he's getting so bent out of shape about it, but it's really nothing to get defensive about.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 06:07:14 PM
Not irrational, just weird. It's your car, man, and your priorities. I just get the feeling the priorities you told us you had when you were looking for a car aren't the ones you have now.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 22, 2013, 02:55:36 PM
My heart is set on a 2.8-3.0L E36 but there are some interesting alternatives. Main things I want are RWD, ~mid 14 sec or less quarter mile, <3200lbs, <$10K price, and some level of long distance comfort
First post :facepalm:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 06:26:04 PM
All it makes me think is that he got the heavy car, drove it and decided that saving weight wasn't as important as he had previously thought.
New cars can make people readjust their parameters, that's all. It's kind of amusing that he's getting so bent out of shape about it, but it's really nothing to get defensive about.
Nobody is getting defensive about anything, just tired of having the same discussion over and over. I bought the car, it's not a Miata, I didn't want a Miata. I've moved on, can you?
Quote from: MrH on September 05, 2013, 06:18:54 PM
Sporty can make all the compromises to his radical car beliefs he preaches on here, but god forbid a car company ever does the same to sell more cars.
I still think cars are too heavy, including my Z... but I have never said light weight is the be all end all of anything; again you are just twisting around the things I say to engage in this goofy ass witch hunt. Its annoying. I just want to talk about my car, I don't come stinking up your thread asking why you didn't get an EVO X or whatever.
Sounds more like you guys are the ones getting bent out of shape about it. Jesus. Leave him alone. He bought a car he wanted. So what if it deviates from his initial intentions/ideas. :wtf:
Edit. And as it appears. He didn't really deviate.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 06:09:00 PM
Is it supposed to?
Just not sure why you quoted me and responded with something completely irrelevant just so you could talk more shit about Sporty. :wtf:
Sporty is also not allowed to lift weights anymore. Can't gain any weight, that'd ruin the handling. Long distance running is the only exercise option available now.
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 05, 2013, 06:38:34 PM
Sporty is also not allowed to lift weights anymore. Can't gain any weight, that'd ruin the handling. Long distance running is the only exercise option available now.
Damn it I just filled my tank today. What was I thinking
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 05, 2013, 06:32:17 PM
First post :facepalm:
Nobody is getting defensive about anything, just tired of having the same discussion over and over. I bought the car, it's not a Miata, I didn't want a Miata. I've moved on, can you?I still think cars are too heavy, including my Z... but I have never said light weight is the be all end all of anything; again you are just twisting around the things I say to engage in this goofy ass witch hunt. Its annoying. I just want to talk about my car, I don't come stinking up your thread asking why you didn't get an EVO X or whatever.
Yeah, I see that "less than 3200 lbs" is the third parameter you listed, which means you didn't get one of the main things you told us you wanted, and I see it apparently doesn't bother you much.
Oh, and I'd call your "alpha bitch" comment just a tad on the defensive side.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 06:33:56 PM
Just not sure why you quoted me and responded with something completely irrelevant just so you could talk more shit about Sporty. :wtf:
I was just voicing why people think its an odd choice. No where was I talking shit, but if that's the way this is gonna be played, I can start.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 06:43:36 PM
Yeah, I see that "less than 3200 lbs" is the third parameter you listed, which means you didn't get one of the main things you told us you wanted, and I see it apparently doesn't bother you much.
Cant have it all :huh:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 06:43:36 PMOh, and I'd call your "alpha bitch" comment just a tad on the defensive side.
Just calling it how I see it :huh:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 06:45:05 PM
I was just voicing why people think its an odd choice. No where was I talking shit, but if that's the way this is gonna be played, I can start.
lololol oh lord. I'm gonna watch from here on out. Y'all are way too brittle sometimes. :wtf:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 05, 2013, 06:41:25 PM
Damn it I just filled my tank today. What was I thinking
:facepalm:
:lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 07:06:17 PM
lololol oh lord. I'm gonna watch from here on out. Y'all are way too brittle sometimes. :wtf:
Me too, this is interesting :popcorn:
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 07:06:17 PM
lololol oh lord. I'm gonna watch from here on out. Y'all are way too brittle sometimes. :wtf:
Lesson learned. You have that stick stuck way too far up your ass for me to bother trying to play peacemaker with.
Jesus, what the hell are you turkeys up to. (NOT a question.)
Quote from: Rupert on September 05, 2013, 04:52:04 PM
Excuses, excuses, and from a guy who just bought a luxury sporty car...
Alright, I'll shut up.
It's a GT.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 05, 2013, 08:48:29 PM
Jesus, what the hell are you turkeys up to. (NOT a question.)
IDK what the hell happened! :huh: We went from Sub Woofers to shit slinging...........
Leave it alone. He found a car he liked, he bought it. Yes, it may not adhere to what he's always wanted, and yes, he spoke spiritedly against me getting one, but he bought it, he likes it. There are so many criteria that you can put down on a checklist and then when you drive the right car all that shit goes out the window.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 05, 2013, 08:54:07 PM
IDK what the hell happened! :huh: We went from Sub Woofers to shit slinging...........
Dub step.
Makes it hard to tell the difference. Sometimes you just don't know which dropped.
I don't mind dubstep so much. I do mind when Muse does dubstep. I hate how Muse became so bad, so quickly, that even when one of their old songs that's actually good comes on the radio, you have to turn it down else people will think you're one of the post-Twilight fans who associate Muse with RP and Team Werewolf.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 05, 2013, 08:54:07 PM
IDK what the hell happened! :huh: We went from Sub Woofers to shit slinging...........
No kidding. In what "enthusiast" world do people cut on a 350Z or mods to this extent?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 08:05:30 PM
Lesson learned. You have that stick stuck way too far up your ass for me to bother trying to play peacemaker with.
...how is you talking to me like that any sort of attempt to make peace? Why am I being dragged into this????? You're blowing my mind, man. Seriously.
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 08:56:03 PM
Leave it alone. He found a car he liked, he bought it. Yes, it may not adhere to what he's always wanted, and yes, he spoke spiritedly against me getting one, but he bought it, he likes it. There are so many criteria that you can put down on a checklist and then when you drive the right car all that shit goes out the window.
Nah man. We gotta give him shit. We GOTTA.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 09:21:41 PM
...how is you talking to me like that any sort of attempt to make peace? Why am I being dragged into this????? You're blowing my mind, man. Seriously.
haha he's gettin' you good
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 05, 2013, 09:24:26 PM
haha he's gettin' you good
Iiiiiii dunno what this means. lol
I'd really like to go back to talking about speakers. That was more fun. :(
JESUS.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 06:32:56 PM
Sounds more like you guys are the ones getting bent out of shape about it. Jesus. Leave him alone. He bought a car he wanted. So what if it deviates from his initial intentions/ideas. :wtf:
Edit. And as it appears. He didn't really deviate.
Bent out of shape? No. I don't think anyone really gives a shit. He's enjoying his car, whatever.
But when he preaches for 8 years about how numbers aren't important, it's about the driving experience. Everything is too heavy and sucks because of it. No one builds cars that are exciting to drive and just chases specs. Then buys a 350Z of all cars and wants to put subs in it? Yeah, expect to be ridiculed and not taken seriously for quite awhile :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2013, 09:21:41 PM
...how is you talking to me like that any sort of attempt to make peace? Why am I being dragged into this????? You're blowing my mind, man. Seriously.
That was me being done with the peacemaking. Not real quick on the uptake, are you?
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 08:59:24 PM
I don't mind dubstep so much. I do mind when Muse does dubstep. I hate how Muse became so bad, so quickly, that even when one of their old songs that's actually good comes on the radio, you have to turn it down else people will think you're one of the post-Twilight fans who associate Muse with RP and Team Werewolf.
Is that what happened? They did the Twilight soundtrack or something?
Quote from: Raza on September 05, 2013, 08:53:18 PM
It's a GT.
Wasn't going for the precise definition, but I did say "sporty" and not "sports"; that wasn't a typo. Luxury GT car, if we want to be picky. ;)
Luxury?
It was relevant to my point at the time, but yes, pretty much.
Remind me not to post when I buy my next car in case it's not a Mustang. Fuck me you guys are being dicks.
Quote from: MrH on September 05, 2013, 09:46:39 PM
Bent out of shape? No. I don't think anyone really gives a shit. He's enjoying his car, whatever.
But when he preaches for 8 years about how numbers aren't important, it's about the driving experience. Everything is too heavy and sucks because of it. No one builds cars that are exciting to drive and just chases specs. Then buys a 350Z of all cars and wants to put subs in it? Yeah, expect to be ridiculed and not taken seriously for quite awhile :lol:
You live to discredit people though; earning your respect is pretty much at the bottom of my list of priorities
I haven't contradicted anything. If you did more than half assed skimmed shit I post you'd know I've also always advocated getting multiple tools for the different kinds of driving you do. Don't get a 3 series, get a Corolla and an S2000. Etc. Well, the Z is my Corolla, and the bike is my S2000. Between those two and my wife's car I have the full range of the driving I do covered. Again, if you paid attention you would know this- I say this all the time
Quote from: sportyaccordy on November 01, 2011, 11:58:06 AM
I am glad you are keeping the SVT. I think it's important for enthusiasts to have the right tools for the job. As fun as a Charger or G37 might be the SVT just provides that raw driving experience I know you would miss if you sold it.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on June 24, 2012, 11:03:00 AM
He enjoys his car and doesn't give a shit about what he's "supposed" to like. More power to him. Plus driving a fast car slow (which you would have to do to keep your license in an F10 M5) does suck. Need the right tool for the job.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on August 11, 2012, 01:38:32 PM
Its about picking the right tool for the job.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on November 17, 2011, 01:07:32 PM
Multiple rigs make sense to me if you have the space & tools & time to deal with them.
Etc. etc. But in your thirst for blood you go from a smart, detailed engineer to bloodthirsty quick skimming idiot. Congrats
Now here's the part where you call me butthurt for calling you on being the asshole you are. Like I've said before I have theories, but if you need this to brocover I understand.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 05, 2013, 11:57:33 PM
Remind me not to post when I buy my next car in case it's not a Mustang. Fuck me you guys are being dicks.
+476
The whole thing is pretty fucking sad, especially on Mr H's part
So about dem heavy ass subwoofers...
Decide on a size/box yet? Amp? Is it gonna be a PITA to wire up or is the Z's radio system not horrifically "integrated" with the rest of the electronics..?
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 06, 2013, 07:44:29 AM
So about dem heavy ass subwoofers...
Decide on a size/box yet? Amp? Is it gonna be a PITA to wire up or is the Z's radio system not horrifically "integrated" with the rest of the electronics..?
I need a 1.75cf box with a ~26Hz port. The radio is no problem- I already installed an aftermarket unit I had laying around. I wouldn't mind getting something with 5V preouts and a better EQ though I might just keep this HU and get an in line EQ. I don't know what I want to do for the amp just yet, but the sub only needs 300W RMS so I don't need anything crazy. Should be a pretty simple setup.
Which sub did you decide on?
Dayton HF
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-460 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-460)
I've wanted to run a Dayton sub for years.
Props. Dayton's the shit. For the price, they're unbeatable. I was gonna suggest looking at Daytons but some people are kinda snobby about that. NO I NEED A MILLION WATT KICKER OR MEMPHIS. :lol:
Yeah, my Rockfords are 150W RMS and I'm only giving them about half that and I hit 136 db. A buddy of mine has two L7's and a 1200W amp which is beyond stupid.
Plus, real watts are sooooo much different than advertised watts. People really don't realize how LITTLE power they're actually using to get their sound.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 05, 2013, 09:49:21 PM
Is that what happened? They did the Twilight soundtrack or something?
Yeah. Apparently the writer of the Twilight series actually cited their music as part of her inspiration for the series. They blew up, went mainstream, and continually chase that dragon. I'm sure there will be twerking in the next music video.
Quote from: Rupert on September 05, 2013, 10:02:50 PM
Wasn't going for the precise definition, but I did say "sporty" and not "sports"; that wasn't a typo. Luxury GT car, if we want to be picky. ;)
Ah, my bad. I misread it.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 06, 2013, 07:59:44 AM
Props. Dayton's the shit. For the price, they're unbeatable. I was gonna suggest looking at Daytons but some people are kinda snobby about that. NO I NEED A MILLION WATT KICKER OR MEMPHIS. :lol:
No way, I replaced the woofers in my home speakers with Daytons. I def appreciate the "quality over quantity" aspect of bass as well. My first setup was a pair of Kicker Comp VRs in some Chinatown ported box with some cheap 1000W amp. Sounded like ass, I was never happy with it. Since then I've always tried to have something quality audio wise.
Just go with Bose anything; that way you know it's quality.
My 10" Kenwood is 300 watts RMS and it's plenty. In fact I have to make sure it's turned down a bit when I play hip hop, since it'll get going too much and I don't want to rattle my car apart. :lol:
I don't think my box design is the best, though, due to the space restrictions. It's very shallow (had to put a spacer on it to get enough air between the woofer and back) and not a square/rectangle shape, so I'm sure I could get better sound quality with it in a normal box.
Quote from: Raza on September 06, 2013, 09:03:29 AM
Just go with Bose anything; that way you know it's quality.
O Raza you know just how to infuriate me :lol:
I have Bose in the car now. Its.... decent.
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 06, 2013, 10:04:39 AM
My 10" Kenwood is 300 watts RMS and it's plenty. In fact I have to make sure it's turned down a bit when I play hip hop, since it'll get going too much and I don't want to rattle my car apart. :lol:
I don't think my box design is the best, though, due to the space restrictions. It's very shallow (had to put a spacer on it to get enough air between the woofer and back) and not a square/rectangle shape, so I'm sure I could get better sound quality with it in a normal box.
Unless it is ported, I don't think the box shape matters much. Even if it is ported, as long as you have the right internal volume and port dimensions it should be good. Main thing is making sure everything is matched to the sub.
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff512/steve__1979/SOS.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 06, 2013, 10:14:56 AM
O Raza you know just how to infuriate me :lol:
I have Bose in the car now. Its.... decent.
Unless it is ported, I don't think the box shape matters much. Even if it is ported, as long as you have the right internal volume and port dimensions it should be good. Main thing is making sure everything is matched to the sub.
I was told by a box builder that a sealed box sounds best with an angled back. That's what I did and it's great.
It's all about the waves in the box and how many bounce back to the driver. A lot of standing waves coming back at the driver make it work harder and can also muddy up the sound by adding undesired energy to it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 06, 2013, 10:14:56 AM
O Raza you know just how to infuriate me :lol:
I have Bose in the car now. Its.... decent.
That was actually for Chris, but I'm glad it worked. :lol:
I don't take the Bose Bait anymore. :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 06, 2013, 10:19:11 AM
It's all about the waves in the box and how many bounce back to the driver. A lot of standing waves coming back at the driver make it work harder and can also muddy up the sound by adding undesired energy to it.
Cant you just wipe that all out with damping foam?
I wonder if internal baffles would help.
I think bose stuff is pretty good, actually.
Don't know why everyone loves to rag on them.
My car's Bose stereo kind of blows despite being the 300 speaker premium upgraded edition (which adds some weight, BTW)
The TSX sounds better despite car audio not being Honda's strong suit.
Quote from: Laconian on September 06, 2013, 11:57:34 AM
My car's Bose stereo kind of blows despite being the 300 speaker premium upgraded edition (which adds some weight, BTW)
The TSX sounds better despite car audio not being Honda's strong suit.
Most bose systems are low ohm's, so they should actually be pretty light.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 06, 2013, 11:49:21 AM
Cant you just wipe that all out with damping foam?
I wonder if internal baffles would help.
http://www.blackhole-america.com/tile.html (http://www.blackhole-america.com/tile.html)
That's...some of the best stuff for deadening.
Internal baffles help box rigidity which will help keep vibrations down, yes. Using mass loaded vinyl to line the inside of the box helps as well to quell box vibration. Different than getting rid of waves within the box, though.
The Bose system in my G is decent, but it's still no match for even a half decent aftermarket system that costs a quarter of the Bose system.
Even an expensive Bose system in a car is using crappy paper cone drivers.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 06, 2013, 11:58:22 AM
Most bose systems are low ohm's, so they should actually be pretty light.
The cheap construction paper they use to make woofer cones also helps.
Blose takes cheap drivers, EQs the shit out of them and then charges $1000 for them. And now, w/how integrated ICE is, you can't even remove them on a lot of new cars.
A lot of their more professional/industrial type stuff is good.
How big of a box should one have for 6x9 drivers (I have those silly 3-way speakers-- not subs)? I have a limited volume in the back of the Porsche, so I've been thinking that smaller drivers would have been smarter. Also, components instead of the 3-way.
Quote from: Rupert on September 06, 2013, 02:47:37 PM
How big of a box should one have for 6x9 drivers (I have those silly 3-way speakers-- not subs)? I have a limited volume in the back of the Porsche, so I've been thinking that smaller drivers would have been smarter. Also, components instead of the 3-way.
You can buy 6x9 boxes at any car audio store. They're not very big.
I already have the box made. I'm concerned it's too small for the speakers.
Quote from: Rupert on September 06, 2013, 02:47:37 PM
How big of a box should one have for 6x9 drivers (I have those silly 3-way speakers-- not subs)? I have a limited volume in the back of the Porsche, so I've been thinking that smaller drivers would have been smarter. Also, components instead of the 3-way.
You can prob do something tiny. Like .5cf with a port.
Quote from: Rupert on September 06, 2013, 02:49:47 PM
I already have the box made. I'm concerned it's too small for the speakers.
Most boxes I have seen for 6x9 speakers are about 12"x8"x5"
Hmm, that's about what I've got...
Maybe it's the direction they're facing. Since they're in the hatch area, I have them angled towards the window. Only other option is straight up, since I want to keep using the retractable hatch cover. Basic problem is what I would call muddiness.
Well, they're not designed for low frequencies, so you might want to try a crossover to cut the really low frequencies out.
Quote from: Rupert on September 06, 2013, 03:04:12 PM
Hmm, that's about what I've got...
Maybe it's the direction they're facing. Since they're in the hatch area, I have them angled towards the window. Only other option is straight up, since I want to keep using the retractable hatch cover. Basic problem is what I would call muddiness.
They might just not be good 6x9s. Very few are really tuned for good quality bass
They're Infinity Reference somethings...
Other problem is the front speakers are pretty small and tinny. I replaced the stockers, which were totally abominable, with these Infinity 2-way plate speakers.
Infinity makes really good speakers but they still aren't meant for lower frequencies. The Kappa series are better than the Reference, but the Reference are still pretty good. I have Infinity Kappas in my Explorer and they're fantastic.
Quote from: Rupert on September 06, 2013, 03:04:12 PM
Hmm, that's about what I've got...
Maybe it's the direction they're facing. Since they're in the hatch area, I have them angled towards the window. Only other option is straight up, since I want to keep using the retractable hatch cover. Basic problem is what I would call muddiness.
I would try straight up.
Hmm, all food for thought.
Whew this tank is off to a great start. Avging 16MPG. I just changed the oil on the bike so weather permitting... you know the rest.
Quote from: Rupert on September 06, 2013, 02:47:37 PM
How big of a box should one have for 6x9 drivers (I have those silly 3-way speakers-- not subs)? I have a limited volume in the back of the Porsche, so I've been thinking that smaller drivers would have been smarter. Also, components instead of the 3-way.
That totally depends on the driver perameters, amplifier, etc. Depends on how scientific you wanna get....
Scientific enough for it to sound good!
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 06, 2013, 11:50:43 AM
I think bose stuff is pretty good, actually.
Don't know why everyone loves to rag on them.
Hit or miss from the ones I've been around. The one in the FD RX-7 sucked ass.
The one in my R3 is ok but not great. They did have one in the NB miata that
Sounded great for a few years.
Quote from: Rupert on September 06, 2013, 08:10:41 PM
Scientific enough for it to sound good!
You can't send the full range of frequencies to a speaker not designed for it.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 06, 2013, 10:30:28 PM
You can't send the full range of frequencies to a speaker not designed for it.
So you think he should get a low pass filter?
My amp has one, but I'm not sure if it's on or not, or if that's what I want. Doesn't low-pass mean lets only the low freqs through?
Quote from: SVT666 on September 06, 2013, 10:30:28 PM
You can't send the full range of frequencies to a speaker not designed for it.
Doesn't three-way = all freqs - sub?
Oops, yeah, you'd want a high pass filter.
What frequency range are the speakers?
No idea. I'll check it out later.
Quote from: Rupert on September 06, 2013, 10:38:26 PM
Doesn't three-way = all freqs - sub?
Full range speakers are designed for 80Hz and up. Anything lower than that causes distortion.
They are also generally designed for infinite baffle (the opposite of a box). So they will have wack efficiency and just not sound right in a box
All things point to a small 10 and hatchback louvers
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/217/1021/25540510005_large.jpg)
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 06, 2013, 08:11:34 AM
Plus, real watts are sooooo much different than advertised watts. People really don't realize how LITTLE power they're actually using to get their sound.
I tell people this ALL the time! I have a true 65 watts pushing the two 12s in my '94 Z! When I would tell people that they would swear I was lying!
I get that too. Nobody believes I'm pushing these subs with just 75W RMS.
Sporty, if you want to do a track day next year then perhaps we could go. I've always wanted to hit VIR but haven't because of a fear of fucking up my DD car on a track.
Quote from: Onslaught on September 07, 2013, 11:26:03 AM
Sporty, if you want to do a track day next year then perhaps we could go. I've always wanted to hit VIR but haven't because of a fear of fucking up my DD car on a track.
Id be more down to head to CMP... its right there in Rock Hill
Def wanna do some track days on the bike there. Next season though
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 07, 2013, 05:19:17 AM
They are also generally designed for infinite baffle (the opposite of a box). So they will have wack efficiency and just not sound right in a box
All things point to a small 10 and hatchback louvers
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/217/1021/25540510005_large.jpg)
Why louvers?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 07, 2013, 11:43:15 AM
Why louvers?
Same reason they existed in the 80s... keep people from looking at the junk in your trunk
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 07, 2013, 12:34:14 PM
Same reason they existed in the 80s... keep people from looking at the junk in your trunk
I always thought they were there to keep the interior a little cooler.
Anyways, the way you said it made me think there was some acoustical reasoning behind them.
Wait, there was a practical reason for louvers?
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 07, 2013, 03:38:41 PM
Wait, there was a practical reason for louvers?
Yes. To make it a royal PITA to clear snow off your rear windshield.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 07, 2013, 05:19:17 AM
They are also generally designed for infinite baffle (the opposite of a box). So they will have wack efficiency and just not sound right in a box
Not really, no. They don't design them for an infinite baffle because nobody actually uses an infinite baffle system...especially in a car...
Infinite baffle is just the norm for getting specs and testing. It offers consistency among all manufacturers. Boxes are variable and add coloration to the driver...not ideal for getting hard specs. Plus, every manufacturer would have to use the "same" box. And it wouldn't reflect the true characteristics of the speaker anyway because a box affects the speaker's operation.
Quote from: Onslaught on September 07, 2013, 11:26:03 AM
Sporty, if you want to do a track day next year then perhaps we could go. I've always wanted to hit VIR but haven't because of a fear of fucking up my DD car on a track.
Worrying about it never helps, just take it easy is the main thing.
We had two crashes yesterday at the local HPDE, both cars are totaled.
To end my previous hijack, I spent a bit of time poking around the Porsche's stereo today. There were some wiring problems with the front speakers that I fixed, and I turned on their high pass filter on the amp. Sounds much better, but I think the box 'o speakers in the back approach, while probably the best for this car, is janky as a rule. I angled the box straight up and didn't hear a difference, and I messed around with the gains on the amp, and tried the high pass on the rears. I think it's about as good as it's gonna get without some major re-engineering.
O you have an amp??? I would def save up for a small sub. I know you already have the 6x9s... sell em. A little 10" in a sealed box would probably be enough
So, I'm thinking your next step should be a supercharger. Just sayin'
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-490 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-490)
A little 8" getting down to 35 Hz? Nice.
Quote from: Rupert on September 09, 2013, 03:46:47 AM
To end my previous hijack, I spent a bit of time poking around the Porsche's stereo today. There were some wiring problems with the front speakers that I fixed, and I turned on their high pass filter on the amp. Sounds much better, but I think the box 'o speakers in the back approach, while probably the best for this car, is janky as a rule. I angled the box straight up and didn't hear a difference, and I messed around with the gains on the amp, and tried the high pass on the rears. I think it's about as good as it's gonna get without some major re-engineering.
I knew the high pass filter would work. Your loudest speakers should be in the front anyway as that is where music is supposed to come from....in front of you. Bass can come from anywhere because it's hard to pinpoint where it's coming from. I always have the balance set to front bias for proper sound distribution, but automakers (especially American cars) put these huge ass speaker on the rear parcel shelf and then little tiny speakers in the front. That setup is completely wrong.
Plus a lot of car speakers play music into your leg. So that's cool. :lol:
I like that my car has midranges/tweeters up on top of the dash.
Quote from: S204STi on September 09, 2013, 07:30:53 AM
So, I'm thinking your next step should be a supercharger. Just sayin'
This thing is already a gas hog. More importantly though,
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/jaisolca/Na-is-Best.jpg)
This thing's got miles on it so that money would be better spent on rebuilding and swapping in another engine once I get to a certain number of miles. I would go for 4.0L, ITBs, long tubes... leave it alone. Or just sell it and get another car.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 09, 2013, 10:28:00 AM
I knew the high pass filter would work. Your loudest speakers should be in the front anyway as that is where music is supposed to come from....in front of you. Bass can come from anywhere because it's hard to pinpoint where it's coming from. I always have the balance set to front bias for proper sound distribution, but automakers (especially American cars) put these huge ass speaker on the rear parcel shelf and then little tiny speakers in the front. That setup is completely wrong.
On my last couple of set ups I only had front speakers for full range sound. I either had 6x9s in the deck lowpassed at like 100Hz or no rear speakers and just a sub. I think I might combine the two setups for the Z or see if I can get a surround sound HU and use the rears as rear channels. I am jelly of my wife's setup... she has a center channel
Man I gave this thing a good wash today. This thing's got some curves!!! giantmtb are you the detailing dude? I used a little handheld squeegee to dry it off. I feel like that carries less dirt an is easier on the paint than a towel. Worked damn quick too
Quote from: SVT666 on September 06, 2013, 12:09:57 PM
The Bose system in my G is decent, but it's still no match for even a half decent aftermarket system that costs a quarter of the Bose system.
I was disappointed with mine. It's not bad, but the Bose system in my Altima actually sounded better.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 09, 2013, 10:28:00 AM
I knew the high pass filter would work. Your loudest speakers should be in the front anyway as that is where music is supposed to come from....in front of you. Bass can come from anywhere because it's hard to pinpoint where it's coming from. I always have the balance set to front bias for proper sound distribution, but automakers (especially American cars) put these huge ass speaker on the rear parcel shelf and then little tiny speakers in the front. That setup is completely wrong.
I always know exactly where bass comes from...
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 09, 2013, 10:42:08 AM
I always know exactly where bass comes from...
It's not nearly as noticeable as highs and mids.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 09, 2013, 10:36:34 AM
Man I gave this thing a good wash today. This thing's got some curves!!! giantmtb are you the detailing dude? I used a little handheld squeegee to dry it off. I feel like that carries less dirt an is easier on the paint than a towel. Worked damn quick too
Thaaaaat's me. Yes, squeegees are great and - as long as they're kept clean - much safer on the paint. Towels can be annoying to use because once they get at all saturated, they just spread water and leave streaks. Squeegees take the water right off. It neeeeeeds to be clean though. I wipe mine off after every swipe. Otherwise you may just end up with a nice 3-foot long scratch that needs to be polished out.
I always use these
(http://a.cdnbrm.com/images/products/large/car_care_products/clean_tools_absorber_synthetic_chamois_new.jpg)
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 09, 2013, 10:42:08 AM
I always know exactly where bass comes from...
From an acoustics standpoint, he's still right. In a big room, for example, you can stick your sub almost anywhere.
Trebles are very directional. That's why horn design is so complicated and why when building speakers you want to find a tweeter that has the horizontal and vertical dispersion that meets your needs. Bass? Bah. Stick it anywhere. Or in the corner if you'd like some room gain.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 09, 2013, 10:34:55 AM
This thing's got miles on it so that money would be better spent on rebuilding and swapping in another engine once I get to a certain number of miles. I would go for 4.0L, ITBs, long tubes... leave it alone. Or just sell it and get another car.
4.0L w/ ITB's, sounds awesome. Other than the fact it would cost twice as much as going FI.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 09, 2013, 10:28:00 AM
I knew the high pass filter would work. Your loudest speakers should be in the front anyway as that is where music is supposed to come from....in front of you. Bass can come from anywhere because it's hard to pinpoint where it's coming from. I always have the balance set to front bias for proper sound distribution, but automakers (especially American cars) put these huge ass speaker on the rear parcel shelf and then little tiny speakers in the front. That setup is completely wrong.
Yeah, though I think the wiring problems (must've been drunk when I wired it the first time-- what the hell) did more than the high pass. The problem with this car is that there just isn't much you can get for the front that fits totally stock. As it is, I have the whole thing kind of rigged up to fit what I have, which is these:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-U6uZAtYM5e6/p_1086432CFP/Infinity-Reference-6432cfp.html (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-U6uZAtYM5e6/p_1086432CFP/Infinity-Reference-6432cfp.html)
At this point, all I can think of would be to go back to more regular speakers in the front.
Actually, I bet it could work OK if I figured out a way to build a box that would sit on the rear seats.
Other than those things, I can't think of anything else. :lol:
Quote from: Rupert on September 09, 2013, 01:28:49 PM
Yeah, though I think the wiring problems (must've been drunk when I wired it the first time-- what the hell) did more than the high pass. The problem with this car is that there just isn't much you can get for the front that fits totally stock. As it is, I have the whole thing kind of rigged up to fit what I have, which is these:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-U6uZAtYM5e6/p_1086432CFP/Infinity-Reference-6432cfp.html (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-U6uZAtYM5e6/p_1086432CFP/Infinity-Reference-6432cfp.html)
At this point, all I can think of would be to go back to more regular speakers in the front.
Actually, I bet it could work OK if I figured out a way to build a box that would sit on the rear seats.
Other than those things, I can't think of anything else. :lol:
Those are good speakers, but the Infinity Kappas that I have are better and fit the same hole. That shouldn't be the problem. Amps make a big difference too. What is your amp?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 09, 2013, 05:45:56 AM
O you have an amp??? I would def save up for a small sub. I know you already have the 6x9s... sell em. A little 10" in a sealed box would probably be enough
I don't need to "save up" to buy speakers. ;)
The fronts are 4x6, this amp is this: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_19566_Rockford-Fosgate-PRIME-R300-4.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=paid_search_google_pla&scid=scplp3601030&gclid=COCHx_iGv7kCFeV7QgodJCgAFg (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_19566_Rockford-Fosgate-PRIME-R300-4.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=paid_search_google_pla&scid=scplp3601030&gclid=COCHx_iGv7kCFeV7QgodJCgAFg). It doesn't seem like the fronts are likely to be enough on their own. What I have sounds pretty bad with just the fronts going.
Rockford Fosgate Prime is usually pretty good stuff. You have the makings of a decent sounding system...why it doesn't sound good is beyond me.
I think the 944 is just not a great platform for really good audio. Too weirdly shaped or something. It's also got a lot of NVH, being old.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 09, 2013, 01:41:33 PM
Rockford Fosgate Prime is usually pretty good stuff. You have the makings of a decent sounding system...why it doesn't sound good is beyond me.
Yeah, I did my research at the time. Actually, the only reason I bought that amp is that it was the only one in my price range that was skinny enough to mount on the box in the way I wanted to. :P
Get some mass loaded vinyl (Dynamat).
BUT WEIGHT. :lol:
Quote from: Rupert on September 09, 2013, 01:42:09 PM
I think the 944 is just not a great platform for really good audio. Too weirdly shaped or something. It's also got a lot of NVH, being old.
Pretty much no car is.
Some are better than others, though. The SUVs and pick-ups I use for work are all pretty decent for sound, even with crappy stock systems.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 09, 2013, 01:46:30 PM
Get some mass loaded vinyl (Dynamat).
BUT WEIGHT. :lol:
I've already done all the MLV and other sound deadening I'm willing to do on this car.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 09, 2013, 11:37:32 AM
4.0L w/ ITB's, sounds awesome. Other than the fact it would cost twice as much as going FI.
When you consider the only proper way to go NA -> FI = rebuilding with forged components and all that anyway, not really. Slapping a turbo kit on a tired old motor is not really going FI.
O and hatchbacks are awesome for bass, at least. The rest of the frequency range can be dealt with other ways. Does the 944 have dashboard speakers?
Ha! No, door speakers and speakers in the sides in the rear seats (that don't work and are a serious PITA to get at). Remember, this car was made before the age of really decent car audio.
Speaking of squeegees. I just discovered a scratch from mine. My paint is basically 90% perfect, so it's very easy to notice...but it happens. A chamois isn't immune to scratching either, it just scratches differently. Usually in lots of microswirls, which is why I don't use them. But you do have white paint, so any small squeegee scratches may be difficult to find. :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 09, 2013, 03:58:29 PM
When you consider the only proper way to go NA -> FI = rebuilding with forged components and all that anyway, not really. Slapping a turbo kit on a tired old motor is not really going FI.
With the piston speeds and rod length of going to 4.0 liters and revving to the normal 350Z levels would most likely require forging anyway, might as well go FI.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 10, 2013, 11:26:22 AM
With the piston speeds and rod length of going to 4.0 liters and revving to the normal 350Z levels would most likely require forging anyway, might as well go FI.
Not if I kept the stroke the same :lol: It would be more like 3.8L... but hey, that's 10% more displacement and at least that much more power.
Holy shit... got totally owned by a last gen Avalon. The road merged from 2 lanes to one and I thought I would beat him- it's a fucking Avalon. Dude pinned it from the jump and I couldn't clear him. The slow ass 1-2 shift put the nail in the coffin. I was humbled
Lol
Anything with that 3.5L is quick
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 13, 2013, 01:03:35 PM
Holy shit... got totally owned by a last gen Avalon. The road merged from 2 lanes to one and I thought I would beat him- it's a fucking Avalon. Dude pinned it from the jump and I couldn't clear him. The slow ass 1-2 shift put the nail in the coffin. I was humbled
:wtf:
This was off the line too, the element of surprise did me in.
Nah, don't feel bad, just check road tests - a 1st gen pre facelift Z is gonna have to try fairly hard to beat a 3rd gen Avalon. The Z is theoretically quicker by 0.2-0.3 seconds 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile, but the Z has a much narrower process window - it's gonna take a good launch and great shifts - flub up anywhere and the just-step-on-the-gas Avalon will getcha. Even outside that, it doesn't take much inattention or delay for a fairly slow car (say a typical truck) to get the jump on a performance car in short distance antics.
Quote from: 68_427 on September 13, 2013, 01:15:46 PM
Lol
Anything with that 3.5L is quick
Lots of good vids with 3.5L Camry, Avalon and even the RAV4, vs. GTI, 3er, 5er, E-Class, A4, GTI, 350Z, G35, 300C, Camaro/Mustang V6 (new), Mustang/Camaro V8 (older), etc. They don't always win but it's almost always a good race.
Fuck, you are not kidding
350z vs Camry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOsAMUx1Kqs#ws)
That's the Z w/like 20 more HP than mine, rough times
But then, it's not a Camry
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 13, 2013, 01:03:35 PM
Holy shit... got totally owned by a last gen Avalon. The road merged from 2 lanes to one and I thought I would beat him- it's a fucking Avalon. Dude pinned it from the jump and I couldn't clear him. The slow ass 1-2 shift put the nail in the coffin. I was humbled
http://youtu.be/3q1OvJ45JSI (http://youtu.be/3q1OvJ45JSI)
This ones even better! :golfclap: :lol:
G8 vs 350Z. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9P14OB_4Z4#)
I see your puny videos an raise you this:
5.0 Foxbody vs 350z (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7MWOkH59tE#)
Stock for stock though a 350Z is definitely quicker and faster than a Fox body 5.0.
I find I tend to lose a lot of ground just keeping up with traffic due to the 1-2 upshift. Unless I wind 1st out to 3K RPM (which makes a bit more noise than I care to in everyday driving) and really shift fast, I find most traffic pulls away from me (and the people behind me almost seem held up a bit). I actually keep up with traffic easier by taking off in 2nd.
Since when is 3000 rpm "winding it out"?
My car starts getting very loud at 3k so that's my shift point.
3K is def not winding it out in the Z; I have the shift light set for 4K which is good for my pace. The 1-2 shift, with all its required delicacy, def halts progress and I'm sure warrants a lot of "WTFs" from folks behind me. I dont know if there is a fix, i.e. new trans fluid etc, or if it's just Nissans' transmissions still sucking at that point in time. Box is not much of an improvement from my old Maximas which were flat out horrible. For the bulk of the driving I do though, not really an issue.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 14, 2013, 10:15:37 AM
Stock for stock though a 350Z is definitely quicker and faster than a Fox body 5.0.
True. But thats the beauty of the 5.0. Cheap and plentiful mods.
Yea w/less than 50HP/L out of the box the only place to go is up
If not for the firing order I would love those motors.
You don't like them because of the firing order? Are you serious? You have the strangest reasons for not liking things.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 14, 2013, 11:07:09 AM
Since when is 3000 rpm "winding it out"?
I normally shift at just over 2K RPM and on flat ground, will put it in a gear that has me running at 1500-1800 RPM. 3K is right at the point where the motor starts to get loud. Louder than my 4-banger Mazda at 3K, at any rate. Also, any higher than 3K RPM and the motor will "pop" when you lift off the throttle (like a V6 F-type between shifts), which is cool when I feel like being racy but I also think that sort of thing can come of as obnoxious to others in rush-hour traffic.
Mzzz, do you have your Fox yet?
Quote from: Laconian on September 14, 2013, 02:14:10 PM
Mzzz, do you have your Fox yet?
Nope. I'm kind of scared that the pot you left me in the glove compartment will get me in trouble.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 14, 2013, 01:13:57 PM
You don't like them because of the firing order? Are you serious? You have the strangest reasons for not liking things.
+1
Quote from: mzziaz on September 14, 2013, 02:30:57 PM
Nope. I'm kind of scared that the pot you left me in the glove compartment will get me in trouble.
Not pot, something better for anesthetizing your brain... watch out, it's contraband in Norway :mask:
Firing order is one of the first specs I look at on a new car.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 14, 2013, 02:39:18 PM
Firing order is one of the first specs I look at on a new car.
Can't tell if serious
Quote from: SVT666 on September 14, 2013, 01:13:57 PM
You don't like them because of the firing order? Are you serious? You have the strangest reasons for not liking things.
Not to mention that practically everybody's V8s use a slightly different firing order.
Ford 302 Windsor and Modulars - 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Ford Coyote - 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2
Nissan VK - 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2
Toyota UZ 4.7L - 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Toyota UR 5.7L - 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2
Chrysler New Hemi - 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
GM Small blocks (Gen III and later) - 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3
Quote from: Laconian on September 14, 2013, 02:37:40 PM
Not pot, something better for anesthetizing your brain... watch out, it's contraband in Norway :mask:
Firearms?
Quote from: MX793 on September 14, 2013, 10:44:16 AM
I find I tend to lose a lot of ground just keeping up with traffic due to the 1-2 upshift. Unless I wind 1st out to 3K RPM (which makes a bit more noise than I care to in everyday driving) and really shift fast, I find most traffic pulls away from me (and the people behind me almost seem held up a bit). I actually keep up with traffic easier by taking off in 2nd.
Same thing here. First gear is just so damn short. I shift out of it at like 12-15mph, which causes the people in a hurry in automatics behind me to catch up really fast...and I'm not gonna speed-shift in normal traffic or anything. lol I'll start in second if I'm on a downgrade and can get a couple mph of roll first, otherwise I just feel "bad" slipping that much...even though it isn't that much different.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 14, 2013, 01:13:57 PM
You don't like them because of the firing order? Are you serious? You have the strangest reasons for not liking things.
It's uneven and lopey. I like the Coyote, BMW V8s, the LSx etc they sound more refined. Not weird at all.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 14, 2013, 04:35:23 PM
It's uneven and lopey. I like the Coyote, BMW V8s, the LSx etc they sound more refined. Not weird at all.
That lopeyness comes from the cam rather than the firing order.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 14, 2013, 04:35:23 PM
It's uneven and lopey. I like the Coyote, BMW V8s, the LSx etc they sound more refined. Not weird at all.
The "lopey" sound comes from the camshaft, not the firing order.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 14, 2013, 04:35:23 PM
It's uneven and lopey. I like the Coyote, BMW V8s, the LSx etc they sound more refined. Not weird at all.
As others have noted, it's not the firing order that results in that sound.
The two Ford V8s firing patterns I listed are unique from the others listed in that both Ford motors have 3 consecutive firings on the same cylinder bank. If you create a sequence of firings per bank, they have the same sequence of 3-2-1-2. The Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler and GM motors never have more than 2 consecutive firings on the same bank (going 2-1-1-2-1-1). Since you mentioned BMW, their V8s also have 3 consecutive firings on the same bank like the Ford motors.
True, the 302s in the Mustangs of those years were a little rough, especially compared to the GM 305s and 307s of the same years; but the 302s in the Town Cars weren't, they were just as smoother if not smoother than the Caddy 4100 motors of the era. And as a point in fact, the HO 302 had a different firing order completely and was rougher still, and the modern modular Ford V8s have the same firing order as the old 302s, but are much smoother. There's simply a lot more going on there than just which pot boils in which order.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 14, 2013, 03:25:31 PM
Same thing here. First gear is just so damn short. I shift out of it at like 12-15mph, which causes the people in a hurry in automatics behind me to catch up really fast...and I'm not gonna speed-shift in normal traffic or anything. lol I'll start in second if I'm on a downgrade and can get a couple mph of roll first, otherwise I just feel "bad" slipping that much...even though it isn't that much different.
I take my time on the 1-2 shift, in everything I own. Sure the car next to me pulls away, and people behind me are held up(and sometimes have to let off the gas or brake to avoid my tail end). I just don't worry about it. It's not my fault they are driving a shitty automatic. If they were driving a car with a proper transmission it wouldn't be an issue.
I have a hard enough time accepting the fact that all these other people are on MY ROADS. I sure as hell am not going to start to cater to them in any way.
Either way, the topic is moot. If the firing order wasn't important then why do I always see it listed on the window sticker under "specs".
Quote from: mzziaz on September 14, 2013, 11:49:10 AM
True. But thats the beauty of the 5.0. Cheap and plentiful mods.
True, but you'll have to work at it a bit. Gonna take more than just bolt-ons.
Guys: Sporty is right - firing order is a factor in idle quality and sound. For example Ford used a different firing order for the 351W vs. the 302 to better even out crank loading. In fact aftermarket swap of a 351W cam into a 302 is pretty common. In that context I think we can all see that more even crank loading = enables crank to handle more power + smoother running/sounding engine. Seen a guy do it on a Fox body Mustang. FWIW, the 351W cam sounds too pedestrian unless it starts to get pretty wild - I much prefer the 302 cam/sound stock for stock.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 14, 2013, 07:01:54 PM
True, but you'll have to work at it a bit. Gonna take more than just bolt-ons.
Not on the old 5.0. Do a little research and you will find out just how easy it is to get another 100 hp over stock.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 15, 2013, 10:04:57 AM
Not on the old 5.0. Do a little research and you will find out just how easy it is to get another 100 hp over stock.
Yes, it's gonna take more than headers or CAI for a Fox body 5.0 to beat a 350Z. You're gonna need heads or cam at least, and corresponding peripheral upgrades (EFI, exhaust).
No, it's no easier or harder than any other equivalent old-school V8; it's gonna take some work.
Is a supercharger regarded a bolt on?
Quote from: GoCougs on September 15, 2013, 10:30:24 AM
Yes, it's gonna take more than headers or CAI for a Fox body 5.0 to beat a 350Z. You're gonna need heads or cam at least, and corresponding peripheral upgrades (EFI, exhaust).
No, it's no easier or harder than any other equivalent old-school V8; it's gonna take some work.
I consider heads and intake manifold to be bolt-ons. A camshaft is not since you must open up the engine to install it.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 15, 2013, 10:44:46 AM
I consider heads and intake manifold to be bolt-ons. A camshaft is not since you must open up the engine to install it.
So you can do heads without "opening up the engine".
You're breaking the combustion seal, can't really get much more "opening up" than that.
Having done heads and cam on a 5.0, there is not much difference. The only thing more you have to do to take the cam out that is more than pulling the heads is to take of the harmonic balancer and timing cover off (of course the timing chain/gear).
Pulling the radiator and AC condenser notwithstanding, I found the cam easier to do than the heads. Getting the lifters out of the block is always a PITA though.
I am gonna agree with cougs on this a 5.0 is going to need new heads, a new intake manifold and cam to reach 300 crank. It would be cheaper and easier to add a power adder (vortech to get the same or more power).
Quote from: mzziaz on September 15, 2013, 10:32:49 AM
Is a supercharger regarded a bolt on?
Usually an SC is considered a power adder.
BTW, nice choice on the '82 GT. I had one for ten years, it was black inside and out with the recaro interior and TRX suspension package (same metric sized 390 mm tires as a ferarri 308). The recaro seats are still some of the best seats I have ever found in a stock car.
I was going to comment on your thread but wasn't sure how to post pics of it.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 15, 2013, 10:44:46 AM
I consider heads and intake manifold to be bolt-ons. A camshaft is not since you must open up the engine to install it.
Bolt on includes but is not limited to: headers, exhaust, under drive pulley, electric fans, CAI, etc.; or otherwise that which doesn't require any material modification to the engine proper. I might be swayed to include things like injectors, intake manifold, or distributor. But a head swap? No way. That is the most extreme thing you can do to an engine outside of rebuilding it.
I don't know cougs, in the old days your definition was true. Today however, most seem to view things as bolt-ons or power adders, this was especially true of the LSx crowd.
Not fitting neatly into the two would be boring/stroking.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 15, 2013, 11:02:06 AM
Usually an SC is considered a power adder.
BTW, nice choice on the '82 GT. I had one for ten years, it was black inside and out with the recaro interior and TRX suspension package (same metric sized 390 mm tires as a ferarri 308). The recaro seats are still some of the best seats I have ever found in a stock car.
I was going to comment on your thread but wasn't sure how to post pics of it.
Cool! I'd love to find some red recaros. Did you mod it?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 15, 2013, 10:49:25 AM
So you can do heads without "opening up the engine".
You're breaking the combustion seal, can't really get much more "opening up" than that.
M,aybe he meant it can be done without removing the engine?
Quote from: mzziaz on September 15, 2013, 11:51:28 AM
Cool! I'd love to find some red recaros. Did you mod it?
The recaros make the interior look 10X better, besides being comfortable and holding you in place.
Yeah, did the normal mods, crane cam, edelbrock performer manifold, 600 cfm 4 bbl carb etc., it probably had low 200s for hp. Not bad in its time.
The '79 pace car, '81 cobra and '82 GT to me were the best looking foxes, total adherence to the folded paper design scheme.
Quote from: MX793 on September 14, 2013, 05:25:36 PM
As others have noted, it's not the firing order that results in that sound.
The two Ford V8s firing patterns I listed are unique from the others listed in that both Ford motors have 3 consecutive firings on the same cylinder bank. If you create a sequence of firings per bank, they have the same sequence of 3-2-1-2. The Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler and GM motors never have more than 2 consecutive firings on the same bank (going 2-1-1-2-1-1). Since you mentioned BMW, their V8s also have 3 consecutive firings on the same bank like the Ford motors.
Am I missing something here or are you forgetting that Ford numbers their cylinders different from GM? Also 302HO's use the 351W firing order.
Quote from: Cobra93 on September 16, 2013, 08:52:14 AM
Am I missing something here or are you forgetting that Ford numbers their cylinders different from GM? Also 302HO's use the 351W firing order.
Oops, for some reason I thought they numbered with an even bank and odd bank, not 1-4 on one bank and 5-8 on the other.
And the firing order given was for the 351W/302HO/ModV8.
Quote from: MX793 on September 16, 2013, 02:47:16 PM
Oops, for some reason I thought they numbered with an even bank and odd bank, not 1-4 on one bank and 5-8 on the other.
And the firing order given was for the 351W/302HO/ModV8.
Yeah, I wasn't questioning you on the firing order. I've got an old 302 and a coyote. I was just pointing it out for the benefit of other posters.
Lol, you know what, well, 2 things.
1, I was perusing my Google Drive and I had a spreadsheet of all the cars I was considering. Z was not on the list lmao.
2, I think I'm gonna pass on the stereo. I think I have been driving in silence for the last 2 or so weeks. I would rather an intake/exhaust....
More random thoughts...
Splitting the exhaust stream gets rid of that awful Chewbacca sound... dare I say it sounds E46 M3ish??? Wish I had the higher revving motor. Mixing the exhaust streams is bad juju
2003 350z 0-110 w/ a few mods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HBihhyfbiE#ws)
I got the courage to turn of VDC and fuck around a little bit. It is pretty intrusive, but I have to pretty much be an idiot to push the car to the point where it makes a difference in feel. I would bet VDC is responsible for the little nasty wobbles in quick side to side transitions...
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 25, 2013, 08:20:27 AM
More random thoughts...
Splitting the exhaust stream gets rid of that awful Chewbacca sound... dare I say it sounds E46 M3ish??? Wish I had the higher revving motor. Mixing the exhaust streams is bad juju
2003 350z 0-110 w/ a few mods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HBihhyfbiE#ws)
But a crossover pipe generally yields better performance than a true split exhaust.
Quote from: MX793 on September 25, 2013, 05:46:38 PM
But a crossover pipe generally yields better performance than a true split exhaust.
Anything is an improvement over the stock stamped pipes. I've seen a few respectable before/after dynos. The increase in pipe diameter alone helps a ton on the low end.
Ordered some new headlights. Stock ones are just terrible and the bulbs are at the end of useful life. The 06s are much much better.
Still debating on what to do about the exhaust. I'm pretty much set on the true dual but I am trying to see if a different Y pipe will get rid of the warble. The crossover causes the warble.
Does the 350 have single pipe going to the back and then splitting into two or is it an H-pipe with two full length (exhaust manifolds to tail pipes) separate tubes that are connected with a crossover for scavenging?
Quote from: SVT32V on October 22, 2013, 02:48:08 PM
Does the 350 have single pipe going to the back and then splitting into two or is it an H-pipe with two full length (exhaust manifolds to tail pipes) separate tubes that are connected with a crossover for scavenging?
This is it, from the headers back:
(http://www.350z-tech.com/forums/attachments/performance/43897d1223513032-fs-ft-oem-exhaust-y-pipe-back-sold-exhaust.jpg)
2.5" single piping and a very early merge
In contrast the E46 M3 is dual piped from the headers back, aside from an x-over pipe that is back damn near behind the differential
(http://rebmw.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/exhaust/e46m3_stockexhaust.jpg)
Obv the motors differ in many ways but exhaust wise they are two I3s sharing an exhaust stream. Difference in power between single pipe, dual with x-over and true duals are negligible but the true duals definitely sound the best. I just found a confirmation of that so I'm definitely going true duals. Just a matter of when...
BMW also tends to engineer the shit out of everything. Not surprising that they got that detail right.
Have you decided on a brand for your exhaust?
I'm going custom. The branded shit is either too gaudy or too expensive. Just getting 2 mandrel bent pipes feeding baffled mufflers painted black with chrome tips. Gonna be beastly.
I did my rear brakes. Whew. I thought I was a pretty strong fit dude... 2 hours wrestling that shit, I am so fucking wrecked. So many siezed bolts, no compressor. I don't envy mechanics AT ALL. That said, apparently both my back brakes were shot as the car is dead quiet now. I thought the brakes were just road noise. Plus I saved god knows how much on labor. Not a bad afternoon.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 23, 2013, 04:24:00 PM
I did my rear brakes. Whew. I thought I was a pretty strong fit dude... 2 hours wrestling that shit, I am so fucking wrecked. So many siezed bolts, no compressor. I don't envy mechanics AT ALL. That said, apparently both my back brakes were shot as the car is dead quiet now. I thought the brakes were just road noise. Plus I saved god knows how much on labor. Not a bad afternoon.
Congrats, dude. Nothing beats the sense of satisfaction you get from fixing your own stuff. And the money you save is icing on the cake! :ohyeah:
I predict you're gonna regret the exhaust; "custom" or otherwise.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 23, 2013, 04:35:04 PM
I predict you're gonna regret the exhaust; "custom" or otherwise.
Sure, like I did with the last 3 exhausts I built :rolleyes:
What a terrible post.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 23, 2013, 08:09:19 PM
Sure, like I did with the last 3 exhausts I built :rolleyes:
What a terrible post.
The z is a little nicer than the last 3 honda's you riced out with "kusdom xast".
Plus you might actually ruin your powerband.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 24, 2013, 07:22:37 AM
The z is a little nicer than the last 3 honda's you riced out with "kusdom xast".
Plus you might actually ruin your powerband.
Exhaust is exhaust. I had a Maxima with the same engine that I put an exhaust on and saw nice gains. One of my Accords had a motor in a much higher state of tune (~230HP from 2.2L NA), and it saw good gains from an opened up exhaust. I always keep my exhausts tasteful and choose components that minimize buzziness and drone. This will be no different. Plus other folks have done what I am looking to do and have seen gains. It's some pipe and mufflers... not really rocket science.
VOLUMETRIC EFFICIENCY AND LAMINAR FLOW MUST BE MAINTAINED
That piece with that cat conv looks like it could be improved, seems like there are some gains to be made in the exhaust.
Not sure how a much larger dia pipe would increase low range though. Seems up top it should help.
Losing low range is what I am afraid of as that's where I do 90% of my driving. But FWIW when I put 2.5" single piping in my Maxima I felt the most gains on the low end. The real big gains in the exhaust are in the catalytic converters but I don't want to be swimming in fumes, plus NC is relatively strict about emissions. I will be happy if it pretty much stays as is and just has a more generic 6 banger tone.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 24, 2013, 01:39:51 PM
Losing low range is what I am afraid of as that's where I do 90% of my driving. But FWIW when I put 2.5" single piping in my Maxima I felt the most gains on the low end. The real big gains in the exhaust are in the catalytic converters but I don't want to be swimming in fumes, plus NC is relatively strict about emissions. I will be happy if it pretty much stays as is and just has a more generic 6 banger tone.
Just rev higher and don't shift as much.
If you're going custom, go big or go home: Side pipes.
Quote from: MX793 on October 24, 2013, 03:08:33 PM
If you're going custom, go big or go home: Side pipes.
Roof pipes.
Man temps dropped here... this thing rips! Stock intake must be pretty well designed. I still want the pop charger for sound though.
New headlights.
(http://i.imgur.com/MxYJ05Q.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SUFurYu.jpg)
Significantly better output from the same wattage.
(http://i.imgur.com/TtIJRQe.jpg)
Not crazy about the white on black look but now night time looks like daytime. Can't complain. Next up will probably be the exhaust.
I'd do a carbon fiber wing, and some 22's before I'd do exhaust.
RWD is so much fun. I still haven't turned the traction control off, but it gives you a little room. In tight turns I like to load up the outside tires and then tuck the nose in letting off the gas. There is a cool 180 degree right into a 90 degree left to enter my complex.... lot of fun.
I want to do a track day or two next year but one thing I am afraid of on this car is the brakes. They are OK and I don't get much fade on the street but I bet they would cook at the track. BBKs are too much money... would rather put some of that into tires. I think upgraded pads/rotors and SS lines should be enough.
I still really want an exhaust. All jokes aside, when you split the two exhaust paths these things sound like Porsches. Maybe for Xmas if work shit pans out.
I've even heard some hard core track guys(and a few instructors) say not to bother with SS brake lines. I never really heard the explanation why, but if they are running track cars without them then it must not be dangerous.
I'd say a really good set of rotors, and a set of pads and some fresh fluid would probably be more than enough. Most likely that would be better than what most people show up to the track with(for driving events).
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on November 16, 2013, 06:42:17 PM
I've even heard some hard core track guys(and a few instructors) say not to bother with SS brake lines. I never really heard the explanation why, but if they are running track cars without them then it must not be dangerous.
I'd say a really good set of rotors, and a set of pads and some fresh fluid would probably be more than enough. Most likely that would be better than what most people show up to the track with(for driving events).
Its not dangerous, because there's generally no need to hold higher hydraulic pressure in the lines. The big difference is that rubber flexes a little; which gives a less abrupt pedal feel. Stainless steel doesn't flex as muc, giving a stiffer feel.
Since a lot of guys have taken just about all the flex out of the system already by using stout calipers and serious brake pads; some like having a little bit in a place where it doesn't affect braking performance.
With power assist, there's no reason for stainless lines. You're unlikely to ever notice a difference. The idea behind them is that they flex less than hose under pressure, which gives better brake feel. I've used them on motorcycles and there's the faintest hint of better brake feel through the lever. On a car, the brake booster dilutes any change in feel.
Quote from: MX793 on November 16, 2013, 06:47:20 PM
With power assist, there's no reason for stainless lines. You're unlikely to ever notice a difference. The idea behind them is that they flex less than hose under pressure, which gives better brake feel. I've used them on motorcycles and there's the faintest hint of better brake feel through the lever. On a car, the brake booster dilutes any change in feel.
The booster increass force on the master cylinder, but it doesn't change the flex in the system. Plus, there's four brake lines in a car, and they're typically longer: which means they're flexier to begin with.
But basically, its a preference thing.
I wonder what Nissan will do with the next Z car, if they make another one. The current one is way outdated. They should either make a 400hp car and go for the Mustang and Camaro or bring back the 240Z name and go for the FRS/BRZ and Genesis Coupe.
I'm guessing either they will cram a v8 in it or go lighter and nimbler.
Personally, I want them to deliver on a statement they made prior to the 370 coming out.
A budget porsche cayman, and for that they need to shoot for a sub 3000lb curb weight and maybe even a smaller displacement "livelier" engine.
Quote from: Mustangfan2003 on November 16, 2013, 07:00:50 PM
I wonder what Nissan will do with the next Z car, if they make another one. The current one is way outdated. They should either make a 400hp car and go for the Mustang and Camaro or bring back the 240Z name and go for the FRS/BRZ and Genesis Coupe.
I'd vote for the latter.
The Mustang and Camaro trade on name and history just as much as they do on performance. Even if Nissan matches them in performance, they'll still suffer in the other department.
But, we really do need more lightweight sports cars.
I agree with you. A friend of mine had a 90s model 240 and seemed like a good car. Maybe building both a new 240Z and a 370Z replacement could happen.
Is an FM chassis really going to be lightweight, I doubt it. Seems like a turbo version of the VQ, would be the way to go, just not as powerful as a GTR.
Less weight and a better balanced chassis. Look how much faster + better the Porsche Cayman S is with basically the same horsepower. Power is not the problem with these cars.
Quote from: Mustangfan2003 on November 16, 2013, 08:30:51 PM
I agree with you. A friend of mine had a 90s model 240 and seemed like a good car. Maybe building both a new 240Z and a 370Z replacement could happen.
I think most would like that, but I want to be careful and not dream too big.
A "300SX" with a low curb weight(sub 3K), 280-300hp as a successor to the S chassis cars(240sx).
and
A 500ZX(560, whatever) with a curb of around 3500 and a 400-440hp v8 would be cool.
The smaller car could offer cayman S performance for 25K less, and the v8 Z(if done right) could offer extremely good performance and possibly still get away with stickering in the mid to upper 40's.
Quote from: Mustangfan2003 on November 16, 2013, 07:00:50 PM
I wonder what Nissan will do with the next Z car, if they make another one. The current one is way outdated. They should either make a 400hp car and go for the Mustang and Camaro or bring back the 240Z name and go for the FRS/BRZ and Genesis Coupe.
Outdated? The 370Z was all new, and debuted in MY2009.
My bet is pretty much no one would by a V8 Z car, and not only because the car is sold in Japan too. The Z has never been about raw acceleration.
Quote from: SVT32V on November 16, 2013, 09:01:43 PM
Is an FM chassis really going to be lightweight, I doubt it. Seems like a turbo version of the VQ, would be the way to go, just not as powerful as a GTR.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2013, 09:44:41 PM
Less weight and a better balanced chassis. Look how much faster + better the Porsche Cayman S is with basically the same horsepower. Power is not the problem with these cars.
The current 370Z is 3,279 lbs with M/T - lighter than the 911 and Corvette.
When equipped with M/T the 370Z stomps the Cayman and almost equals the Cayman S in acceleration.
The "problem" is the 370Z starts at $30k, where as the Cayman S starts at $65k.
I would like to see more refinement in FM platform - particularly ride and road noise.
Need a 100Z. A two seat zipper windowed true sports car powered by a 1.0 liter high pressure turbocharged W-3 engine with seven desmodromic valves per cylinder, a variable compression crankshaft, and a multi-fuel injection system capable of running the engine on virtually any combustible liquid. The power will feed the single rear wheel through a close-ratio non-synchromesh seven-speed manual with an automatic clutch.
Sounds too heavy.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 16, 2013, 11:06:03 PM
The current 370Z is 3,279 lbs with M/T - lighter than the 911 and Corvette.
When equipped with M/T the 370Z stomps the Cayman and almost equals the Cayman S in acceleration.
The "problem" is the 370Z starts at $30k, where as the Cayman S starts at $65k.
I would like to see more refinement in FM platform - particularly ride and road noise.
911 Carrera is ~3050lb with either transmission. Cayman S is ~2900lbs. Cayman S with the manual is neck and neck with the Z but the PDK puts it in another stratosphere
Obviously you can't really compare the cars based on price, but the point is the Z would benefit way more by losing 300-400lb than getting another 100-150HP. I'd rather an FR Cayman than a Japanese Mustang. Fuck relativity, a mid 13 second car is damn fast, regardless of what the competition is doing. If they switched to a transaxle as well to sweeten the balance....
Quote from: GoCougs on November 16, 2013, 11:24:06 PM
Sounds too heavy.
The target weight for the 100Z is 100 decikilograms.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/27/man-sells-testicle-to-buy-nissan-370z/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/27/man-sells-testicle-to-buy-nissan-370z/)
I know how you can get some cash to fix your Z up.
Quote from: Onslaught on November 28, 2013, 06:36:04 AM
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/27/man-sells-testicle-to-buy-nissan-370z/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/27/man-sells-testicle-to-buy-nissan-370z/)
I know how you can get some cash to fix your Z up.
I need this money. I can get a neuticle to replace it. Who do you sell it to.
I drove the Z up to NYC for Thanksgiving/work. Did pretty well. The passing power is divine. Quick stab in 6th is pretty much all that is needed to make any pass. NYC roads are absolutely abysmal though. I'm appalled with the road quality here. Got 25 MPG on the way up and I'm back in the high teens with this back and forth. No bueno but it is what it is.
This trip fried my rotors. Needed an excuse to upgrade the brakes, so I am. Going with the 06 dual piston setup with Hawk HPS pads and slotted rotors. Lot of folks like it and it's way cheaper (and prob not much less effective) than the Brembos. Rotors are for all intents and purposes the same size. Gonna get the Bilstein Pro Kit for my bday in September.
Why slotted?
I bought it as a kit and it was either slotted or slotted and drilled. I dont believe in drilled brakes.... reduced thermal capacity and integrity. Looking forward to the improved brake feel and capacity.... that was the one thing I liked in the 370Z over my car.
Clutch problems. Something is up with the circulation system. Pedal loses about half its stroke towards the evening. I'm not comfortable bleeding it myself.... gonna take it to the stealership.
Gonna buy an intake soon to make that Chewbacca wail more demonic. I think I'm due for a new filter anyway :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 24, 2014, 10:39:15 AM
Clutch problems. Something is up with the circulation system. Pedal loses about half its stroke towards the evening. I'm not comfortable bleeding it myself.... gonna take it to the stealership.
Gonna buy an intake soon to make that Chewbacca wail more demonic. I think I'm due for a new filter anyway :lol:
I don't thing bleeding a clutch is any different than a brake. I don't know If I'd pay the dealership a couple hundred bucks to do that.
I start work Monday and need everything 100%. I've done brakes before and I understand the basics of what's involved but folks on forums say bleeding the clutch can be finicky. It's only like an hour of labor at the stealership... worth the piece of mind to me. I will probably have them do the brakes too.
Yea worth having the shop do it. Clutch feels way better. Good enough that I think wifey can learn on the Z.
Waiting on my rotors to come in. Gonna get that popcharger for my bday in September. Then next year, suspension and exhaust.
You can get the same "feel" using blank rotors, good pads, and fluids.
A friend of mine just flipped his Z Friday - HR motor (auto) tuned with Uprev. 27Xwhp from the 250xwhp baseline. Glad he's ok, but the it's was a bad wreak to walk away from.
Auto?
I have Motul DOT5, Hawk HPSs and SS lines waiting to be installed. I think next time around I will go with blanks though. I need as much thermal capacity as possible.
I read somewhere 350Zs have the highest rate of accident fatalities. I believe it. Lot of performance for cheap and they def attract a certain kind of driver which I'm ashamed to say I def am. O well.
HRs are beastly. W/cams the playing field is a little level though. I'm not gonna dig into this motor though, I am just about to turn over 180K. Just gonna do an intake and exhaust, and then maybe do headers and a tune when I eventually replace the engine
Quote from: GoCougs on July 02, 2014, 09:35:24 AM
Auto?
Yep like your G
O yea.... averaged like 25 MPG on my drive into work today. W/traffic on the way home I think I'll be doing about 23-24 on average. Not bad. I was thinking about riding in but it's too damn hot
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 02, 2014, 09:41:40 AM
I think next time around I will go with blanks though. I need as much thermal capacity as possible.
...wut :confused:
Quote from: MrH on July 02, 2014, 10:11:14 AM
...wut :confused:
DOORRIIFFFFFFTOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Brakes only slow you down...
Quote from: MX793 on July 02, 2014, 10:31:21 AM
Brakes only slow you down...
Not true, better brakes make you go faster, because you can slow down faster. It's a complicated formula.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 02, 2014, 09:41:40 AM
I have Motul DOT5, Hawk HPSs and SS lines waiting to be installed. I think next time around I will go with blanks though. I need as much thermal capacity as possible.
I read somewhere 350Zs have the highest rate of accident fatalities. I believe it. Lot of performance for cheap and they def attract a certain kind of driver which I'm ashamed to say I def am. O well.
HRs are beastly. W/cams the playing field is a little level though. I'm not gonna dig into this motor though, I am just about to turn over 180K. Just gonna do an intake and exhaust, and then maybe do headers and a tune when I eventually replace the engine
Yep like your G
Wait, what? Unless there is a compression/oil consumption issue, there is no problem modding your current motor - driving the piss out of it until it eventually pops.
Furthermore, you can't do headers without doing cams - the DE cams are around 232 duration, and don't make power with headers. The HR/Rev up motors have a longer duration camshaft (248 duration and more lift I believe ) which is why they will make power with headers.
He crashed a couple of cars already, but he got a killer deal on this Z. For what the accident looked like, I'd say the Z is an extremely safe car.
Quote from: Char on July 02, 2014, 01:01:58 PM
Wait, what? Unless there is a compression/oil consumption issue, there is no problem modding your current motor - driving the piss out of it until it eventually pops.
Furthermore, you can't do headers without doing cams - the DE cams are around 232 duration, and don't make power with headers. The HR/Rev up motors have a longer duration camshaft (248 duration and more lift I believe ) which is why they will make power with headers.
He crashed a couple of cars already, but he got a killer deal on this Z. For what the accident looked like, I'd say the Z is an extremely safe car.
I've seen folks net ~12WHP with headers independent of a tune and with stock cams. The stock DE headers are awful... just a big stamped piece, not tubular at all.
And I'd rather not risk it... a low mileage junkyard motor is not a lot of money (cheaper than selling and getting a lower mileage car for example), and while it's out I can rebuild it to new and do some PITA mods at my leisure (clutch/flywheel, headers, plenum spacer etc). Ideally I would like to sleeve the new motor and go up to 3.8L with 100mm pistons but that's going a little too far IMO. W/a suspension refresh and a new motor I could see this thing easily doing another 150K miles, especially on these smooth ass NC roads.
Meh, headers aren't worth anything on stock motor - any peak HP gain comes at the expense of throttle response and power lower down.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 02, 2014, 02:13:26 PM
Meh, headers aren't worth anything on stock motor - any peak HP gain comes at the expense of throttle response and power lower down.
And by what metrics are you quantifying these things with? What instances have you seen these results?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 02, 2014, 01:51:10 PM
I've seen folks net ~12WHP with headers independent of a tune and with stock cams. The stock DE headers are awful... just a big stamped piece, not tubular at all.
And I'd rather not risk it... a low mileage junkyard motor is not a lot of money (cheaper than selling and getting a lower mileage car for example), and while it's out I can rebuild it to new and do some PITA mods at my leisure (clutch/flywheel, headers, plenum spacer etc). Ideally I would like to sleeve the new motor and go up to 3.8L with 100mm pistons but that's going a little too far IMO. W/a suspension refresh and a new motor I could see this thing easily doing another 150K miles, especially on these smooth ass NC roads.
You've never seen that on a DE. Ever.
I'll wait for that header only (not High flow cat, not testpipe) dyno on a DE with 12whp peak gains.
Quote from: Char on July 02, 2014, 02:54:34 PM
You've never seen that on a DE. Ever.
I'll wait for that header only (not High flow cat, not testpipe) dyno on a DE with 12whp peak gains.
Image is down. You were right, it was 11whp, on a DE
http://my350z.com/forum/intake-exhaust/482238-removed-stillen-headers-before-after-dyno.html (http://my350z.com/forum/intake-exhaust/482238-removed-stillen-headers-before-after-dyno.html)
Why would somebody replace the headers and leave the rest of the exhaust bone stock anyways? Other than to win arguments with random Internet trolls, that is.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 02, 2014, 04:00:55 PM
Image is down. You were right, it was 11whp, on a DE
http://my350z.com/forum/intake-exhaust/482238-removed-stillen-headers-before-after-dyno.html (http://my350z.com/forum/intake-exhaust/482238-removed-stillen-headers-before-after-dyno.html)
That's a revup motor. Try again.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 02, 2014, 04:18:33 PM
Why would somebody replace the headers and leave the rest of the exhaust bone stock anyways? Other than to win arguments with random Internet trolls, that is.
Replacing headers is labor intensive, so it's usually the last job done.
Quote from: Char on July 02, 2014, 04:26:49 PM
Replacing headers is labor intensive, so it's usually the last job done.
Which is pretty much what I said.
I think "annoying and stupid" is a better term to describe replacing headers than labor intensive.
Quote from: Char on July 02, 2014, 04:20:53 PM
That's a revup motor. Try again.
Rev up motor is a DE and has the same shit cast headers.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 02, 2014, 02:39:09 PM
And by what metrics are you quantifying these things with? What instances have you seen these results?
Easy - the premise of that entire thread - just read the first post. The dude got all confused on whether the headers added power - he though he lost power and then though he gained power. His failing is in using a chassis dyno but all in all header-only power gains are in the noise of a chassis dyno, and any gains will be offset by a loss lower down in the revs plus possibly hurt throttle response.
Secondarily, if it were that easy, automakers would do it from the factory. An exhaust system is a highly engineered subsystem - it's never just about "less restriction."
Quote from: GoCougs on July 02, 2014, 06:54:50 PM
Secondarily, if it were that easy, automakers would do it from the factory. An exhaust system is a highly engineered subsystem - it's never just about "less restriction."
Like I've said a million times in the past, manufacturers design engine peripherals to a wide range of specs that have nothing to do with, and often work counter to performance. Case in point, the DE Z's stamped headers, or things like catalytic converters, air filters, mufflers, intake resonators etc etc. Your faith in OEMs pursuit of power defies logic/reality.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 02, 2014, 05:33:32 PM
Which is pretty much what I said.
No it's not. Not really at all - you implied that it was stupid for someone to JUST replace headers and not the rest of the exhaust at the same time. This ignores the cost of parts and how much labor is involved with changing them. Either way, I'm the type of person who makes 1 modification at a time and then dynos afterwards.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 02, 2014, 07:00:15 PM
Like I've said a million times in the past, manufacturers design engine peripherals to a wide range of specs that have nothing to do with, and often work counter to performance. Case in point, the DE Z's stamped headers, or things like catalytic converters, air filters, mufflers, intake resonators etc etc. Your faith in OEMs pursuit of power defies logic/reality.
Again, we can address this with only logic - by definition a loss of power = loss of MPG. Why would an automaker spend hundreds of millions $$$ on a new engine only to lose MPG to an exhaust or air intake? Not until the VE% of the engine is fundamentally changed (i.e., heads, cams, F/I) do changing these engine peripherals have any real performance advantage.
Quote from: hotrodalex on July 02, 2014, 05:54:05 PM
I think "annoying and stupid" is a better term to describe replacing headers than labor intensive.
Labor intensive is a pretty good description.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 02, 2014, 06:25:52 PM
Rev up motor is a DE and has the same shit cast headers.
Wow, did you even read the thread you posted?
Again, the Non Revup DE cams are too small to make gains off of headers. PPE/Fast Intentions did a dyno and they gain next to nothing over the stock manifolds - The Revup and HR made impressive gains in comparison, and this is largely attributed to having larger camshafts.
Sometimes you should shut up and read, you're not always right.
Headers by themselves will gain negligible increases in power. So little you won't notice. Replace the entire exhaust system, and you will get gains worth talking about. Replace the entire exhaust system, air box and throttle body, and you'll likely see better times at a track, but you won't see real big gains until you replace the intake manifold, heads, and cams, along with the exhaust, air intake, throttle body, and a tune. It's kind of an all or nothing deal to make any meaningful power. Otherwise you still have restrictions in the intake manifold and heads...unless of course you have an engine like the old Ford 4.6L V8 where the throttle body and the exhaust (6 catalytic converters) were the problem and the heads weren't being used to their full potential.
What a bizarre set of sweeping generalizations. :lol:
Quote from: Char on July 02, 2014, 07:12:26 PM
No it's not. Not really at all - you implied that it was stupid for someone to JUST replace headers and not the rest of the exhaust at the same time. This ignores the cost of parts and how much labor is involved with changing them. Either way, I'm the type of person who makes 1 modification at a time and then dynos afterwards.
Most people don't just throw money away on chassis dyno time every time they turn a bolt. And even if they do, they're not starting modifying their exhaust with the headers.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 02, 2014, 07:12:52 PM
Why would an automaker spend hundreds of millions $$$ on a new engine only to lose MPG to an exhaust or air intake?
Regulations and cost. Backpressure being a good thing is a myth proven false by extensive testing on VQs on an ENGINE dyno (http://my350z.com/forum/7435408-post15.html). Additionally, the ideal header back exhaust (an open parabolic diffuser) is way cheaper than what is mandated by law (noise and emission suppressants such as cats and mufflers). However it is also way louder and dirtier. So your continued insistence that manufacturers design for HP first and everything else afterwards is hilariously off the mark.
Quote from: MrH on July 02, 2014, 08:40:04 PM
What a bizarre set of sweeping generalizations. :lol:
Yea, its definitely car dependent. My old Accord saw more HP gains from headers than I've seen for the 350Z.
Here are some header (with tune) results that may be relevant to your interests
(http://www.fa20club.com/image.php?type=D&id=58)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/pandlmotorsports/forums/p-and-l-brz-na-header-dyno-graph-II.jpg)
Quote from: Char on July 02, 2014, 07:16:23 PM
Again, the Non Revup DE cams are too small to make gains off of headers.
Again, I have seen gains on headers on other engines with much less aggressive cams than stock DEs. The assertion that a minimum camshaft duration is necessary to create gains from headers is wrong. If the headers are inefficient/a choke point upgrading them will yield gains regardless of what
And here is a link to a thread on a guy changing from Ichiba to Tomei headers on an 03 DE, since you want to be such a pedant. No OEM header comparison but clearly the Tomeis showed gains.
http://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/441039-tomei-header-and-cam-install.html (http://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/441039-tomei-header-and-cam-install.html)
Here's another thread of a guy who put Cattman headers on a 3.5 Maxima, which has much less aggressive cams than the G/Z, and saw gains (dead image links)
http://forums.nicoclub.com/2k2-maxima-dyno-after-header-install-t84573.html (http://forums.nicoclub.com/2k2-maxima-dyno-after-header-install-t84573.html)
So headers can make gains on a DE.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 03, 2014, 05:07:44 AM
Again, I have seen gains on headers on other engines with much less aggressive cams than stock DEs. The assertion that a minimum camshaft duration is necessary to create gains from headers is wrong. If the headers are inefficient/a choke point upgrading them will yield gains regardless of what
And here is a link to a thread on a guy changing from Ichiba to Tomei headers on an 03 DE, since you want to be such a pedant. No OEM header comparison but clearly the Tomeis showed gains.
http://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/441039-tomei-header-and-cam-install.html (http://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/441039-tomei-header-and-cam-install.html)
Here's another thread of a guy who put Cattman headers on a 3.5 Maxima, which has much less aggressive cams than the G/Z, and saw gains (dead image links)
http://forums.nicoclub.com/2k2-maxima-dyno-after-header-install-t84573.html (http://forums.nicoclub.com/2k2-maxima-dyno-after-header-install-t84573.html)
So headers can make gains on a DE.
Face-Fucking palm.
I literally want to reach through the computer and just smack you.
THe problem is the stock manifolds aren't as horrible as they look - they were designed as a great compromise, so real improvements are hard to find. Combine that with small camshafts, most headers (shorty or long tube) aren't making any power over test pipe Only/HFC only cars. You don't have to believe me, the first link you posted on the Stillen headers mentions the same exact thing!
Second, Maxima =/=350Z. Different exhaust manifolds (which obviously flow worse) different intake manifold, different ECU, etc Not a valid comparison.
You want power? Stop being stubborn and ignorant - Intake/Exhaust/tune - THEN JWT cams (easily the best grinds available) and Longtube headers. That's near 300whp.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 02, 2014, 08:29:04 PM
Headers by themselves will gain negligible increases in power. So little you won't notice.
Depends on the car.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 03, 2014, 04:39:33 AM
Most people don't just throw money away on chassis dyno time every time they turn a bolt. And even if they do, they're not starting modifying their exhaust with the headers.
Most people are also dumb - how accurate do you think your butt dyno is?
Here is a dyno of my car during intake testing, and it's the only hint you'll get of what I drive.
~20% from headers and a tune? Nah, not a chance.
As I've stated numerous times chassis dynos aren't all that good for either accuracy or repeatability. See this chassis dyno test on variation (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0612phr_dyno_accuracy_testing/). Straps and tire pressure alone were worth a spread of 7 hp (which itself suspect, given one is not gonna reliably see change of a better than 10-15 hp on a chassis dyno).
See this stock engine dyno test of an LS1 and a smattering of headers (http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ls1_engine_header_test/viewall.html). 1 7/8" primary tube headers (= HUGE - would never fit on a modern Corvette or Camaro) and 2.5" full exhaust were only worth 6 hp and 4 lb-ft on a ~400hp engine vs. stock manifolds and 2" exhaust. Though much better in accuracy and repeatability, even a part of this advantage is gonna be in the noise of accuracy for an engine dyno.
Quote from: Char on July 03, 2014, 07:19:20 AM
Most people are also dumb - how accurate do you think your butt dyno is?
Here is a dyno of my car during intake testing, and it's the only hint you'll get of what I drive.
So, you spent money to find out your car is pretty much exactly what it was before; now that's smart money!
Back in the day, we had these things called racetracks, where you could find out how fast or slow your car had gotten. Not only was it cheaper in most cases, it was a lot more fun.
Another thought: as to the header test simply look at the changes in power band (i.e., moved peak power and torque RPM). So, not only was there virtually no perceptible advantage they mucked about with performance optimization (i.e., gearing) which could have a negative effect on performance and driveability.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 03, 2014, 07:39:26 AM
So, you spent money to find out your car is pretty much exactly what it was before; now that's smart money!
Back in the day, we had these things called racetracks, where you could find out how fast or slow your car had gotten. Not only was it cheaper in most cases, it was a lot more fun.
212 baseline and 222 after intake testing. Such a waste of time.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 03, 2014, 04:45:38 AM
Yea, its definitely car dependent. My old Accord saw more HP gains from headers than I've seen for the 350Z.
Sorry, my post was in response to SVT. I understand what you're saying.
I agree, there are some gains to be made, depending on the car. I think Cougs has a valid point too: There's a lot of noise in chassis dynos. They're not accurate worth a damn, but that's not to say you can't make improvements either.
Nameless makes some beautiful headers for the BRZ/FRS that make a pretty good jump in power. They could make something like that from the factory, but it's cost prohibitive, and a lot of those gains are from eliminating a CAT. And as Cougs points out, the gearing is based on the torque curve largely. If you start trying to shuffle torque to higher in the rev range in hopes of making a higher peak horsepower, you run the risk of making the car slower with the same gearing.
Quote from: Char on July 03, 2014, 07:19:20 AM
Most people are also dumb - how accurate do you think your butt dyno is?
Here is a dyno of my car during intake testing, and it's the only hint you'll get of what I drive.
That's a very nice, flat, wide torque band.
Quote from: Char on July 03, 2014, 08:24:28 AM
212 baseline and 222 after intake testing. Such a waste of time.
216 to 218
Why are you modifying a minivan?
Quote from: Char on July 03, 2014, 08:24:28 AM
212 baseline and 222 after intake testing. Such a waste of time.
Not on that pull.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 03, 2014, 09:01:33 AM
Not on that pull.
I'd post more, but I don't think anyone really cares.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on July 03, 2014, 08:56:53 AM
That's a very nice, flat, wide torque band.
Thanks, It's no M3, but it gets the job done :-D
Quote from: Char on July 03, 2014, 09:19:14 AM
I'd post more, but I don't think anyone really cares.
Nobody does, but you're trying to prove some point, aren't you?
Quote from: Char on July 03, 2014, 08:24:28 AM
212 baseline and 222 after intake testing. Such a waste of time.
Was the baseline a stock engine?
Quote from: Char on July 03, 2014, 09:21:01 AM
Thanks, It's no M3, but it gets the job done :-D
Actually that dyno looks like how I would imagine an E36 M3 dyno.
Looks NA to me but I could be wrong. Lots of recent turbos have that kind of dyno too.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 03, 2014, 09:36:51 AM
Was the baseline a stock engine?
212whp was stock, intake and tune was 222, and there is more in it.
Looks like a GTI
Wow, so many ignored posts on this page. Hard to follow what's happening. Has Sporty gotten his Prius yet?
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 03, 2014, 11:46:34 AM
Looks like a GTI
No way, GTI is way peakier. Im thinking E90 330i.
Guys, it's a Nissan Quest, with overnight parts from Japan.
Quote from: MrH on July 03, 2014, 01:13:00 PM
Guys, it's a Nissan Quest, with overnight parts from Japan.
Forgive me if I think a hopped up Quest might be on the cool side of things. If nothing else, at least it's different than your cookie cutter mail order parts car.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 03, 2014, 01:05:10 PM
No way, GTI is way peakier. Im thinking E90 330i.
I was kidding
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 03, 2014, 02:07:31 PM
I was kidding
Dont do that :lol:
I changed the drive belts today. 1 hour my ass. Eh I guess maybe with a lift and air tools.
Looked back through this thread from the beginning. Funny stuff lol.
Overall I'm happy with the car. Gas mileage is pretty wack. Averaging 20 MPG overall. But other than maintenance I haven't had any problems. And I'm starting to understand and feel comfortable with its dynamics.
I'm hoping to keep this like the bike as it has too many miles to sell, even though it's in phenomenal shape. Once this thing is beyond its usable life as a daily driver I will use it as my release valve for all my automotive project needs. Might even completely contradict myself and go twin turbo :mask1: I def want to do intake/plenum spacer/exhaust and my brakes + suspension by the end of the year though.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 09, 2014, 08:07:57 AM
Looked back through this thread from the beginning. Funny stuff lol.
Overall I'm happy with the car. Gas mileage is pretty wack. Averaging 20 MPG overall. But other than maintenance I haven't had any problems. And I'm starting to understand and feel comfortable with its dynamics.
I'm hoping to keep this like the bike as it has too many miles to sell, even though it's in phenomenal shape. Once this thing is beyond its usable life as a daily driver I will use it as my release valve for all my automotive project needs. Might even completely contradict myself and go twin turbo :mask1: I def want to do intake/plenum spacer/exhaust and my brakes + suspension by the end of the year though.
My advice would be to NOT do any alterations to the motor and save your money. Doing things like intake work, chip tuning, porting/polishing or really anything without taking a definitive course will just be a waste of money. If you actually want to turbo it then just save the cash and do that. Nothing worse then spending some money only to have a future mod negate the effect and cost.
My .02 cents, I'm sure your aware.
ETA: Mods are expensive, a few here and there and you are halfway(in cost) to a turbo/super kit but with only a fraction of the HP gained. I can't believe you couldn't possibly find a supercharger kit coming off a car on CL for cheap, the guy might have changed direction and wanted to go turbo. A SC kit would be easier to install and allow some of your planned future mods(full exhaust) to still be relevant.
LS7 swap
VK swap
LS7? VK?
He isn't building the thing for his teenage daughter. Have to put some real power under the hood, atleast 12 cylinders.
(http://www.mercedes-amg.com/img/engineering/creation/60lv12/fg_1.png)
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 09, 2014, 08:19:17 AM
My advice would be to NOT do any alterations to the motor and save your money. Doing things like intake work, chip tuning, porting/polishing or really anything without taking a definitive course will just be a waste of money. If you actually want to turbo it then just save the cash and do that. Nothing worse then spending some money only to have a future mod negate the effect and cost.
My .02 cents, I'm sure your aware.
ETA: Mods are expensive, a few here and there and you are halfway(in cost) to a turbo/super kit but with only a fraction of the HP gained. I can't believe you couldn't possibly find a supercharger kit coming off a car on CL for cheap, the guy might have changed direction and wanted to go turbo. A SC kit would be easier to install and allow some of your planned future mods(full exhaust) to still be relevant.
Yea the intake is only like $100 and the plenum spacer/exhaust would work with any FI. Ive been down that road before so I know how important a plan is.
Lol @ engine swaps. I like A/C and P/S.
No reason to have to forgo either of those just because its a different engine.
Intake, exhaust, tune.
Rotors came in. So aside from rear calipers (which I will just get locally) I have everything I need for brakes. Am I a bitch for wanting to take it to the dealership?
Yes
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 11, 2014, 01:04:35 PM
Rotors came in. So aside from rear calipers (which I will just get locally) I have everything I need for brakes. Am I a bitch for wanting to take it to the dealership?
Yes. Take it to an independent garage and spend half the money.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 11, 2014, 02:41:58 PM
Yes. Take it to an independent garage and spend half the money.
I bought a PRL cold air intake for my Civic that needs the battery to be relocated and was way over my head. Dealer wanted 167 an hour, local Honda tuner shop wanted 50. Eaaaaasy choice, and they actually see this shit often.
Im kinda torn
Theres a dealer a mile from my house and about 3 miles from my job. There are some Z specific tuners but they are way out of the way. Plus the dealer's hourly rate is not that bad ($100/hr).... I havent checked the tuner shop, but given that its down closer to the heart of the city I doubt its cheaper. Plus it's all OEM parts... its a brake job + flush, so the dealer should be able to handle it. Dealer also has a shuttle to drop me off and pick me up when it's ready (though I will try and pick a day where I can ride my bike to work). Dealer only works weekdays though but I bet the tuner shops are swamped on the weekends. I gotta make some calls and figure it out.... my brakes are vibrating real bad.
Dude. Call an independent garage. Brakes aren't rocket science and aren't Z specific. Every car has them.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 11, 2014, 01:04:35 PM
Rotors came in. So aside from rear calipers (which I will just get locally) I have everything I need for brakes. Am I a bitch for wanting to take it to the dealership?
In general, no - dealers will on average do a better job and they have the depth and motivation to cover things if something goes wrong. Dealers though don't like installing others' parts, and probably won't warranty anything, so in paying the higher rate you're not getting a big part of the benefit.
Unless it's something weird...a pad and rotor swap is stupid easy to do. I did my yaris in 20 mins
Quote from: 2o6 on July 12, 2014, 10:28:51 AM
Unless it's something weird...a pad and rotor swap is stupid easy to do. I did my yaris in 20 mins
I did my rear brake pads. Rotors n pads are easy, its the calipers I dont want to deal with as I have to do the fluid and bleed it and all that shit. Never did that before.
Bleeding is easy if you have a helper, but IMO, it sucks nuts. I'd take it to an indie shop. :P
Quote from: Rupert on July 12, 2014, 01:30:07 PM
Bleeding is easy if you have a helper, but IMO, it sucks nuts. I'd take it to an indie shop. :P
I've only done it on a motorcycle. Not sure I'd want to try it on a car and I'm not sure if it's possible to do without a helper. Maybe if you have one of those vacuum brake bleed kits...
Vacuum brake bleeding as in the hand pumps or a motorized vacuum?
Quote from: hotrodalex on July 12, 2014, 01:37:01 PM
Vacuum brake bleeding as in the hand pumps or a motorized vacuum?
Either. Hand pump vacuum kits are probably cheaper.
Quote from: MX793 on July 12, 2014, 01:32:06 PM
I've only done it on a motorcycle. Not sure I'd want to try it on a car and I'm not sure if it's possible to do without a helper. Maybe if you have one of those vacuum brake bleed kits...
The standard method is person in the driver seat pumping the brakes, and a person at the wheels opening and closing the bleeder. Up, closed, down, open, up, closed, down, open, or I guess not quite that order. :P
Quote from: Rupert on July 12, 2014, 01:45:31 PM
The standard method is person in the driver seat pumping the brakes, and a person at the wheels opening and closing the bleeder. Up, closed, down, open, up, closed, down, open, or I guess not quite that order. :P
Should be: apply pedal pressure, open bleeder until fluid stops coming out (pedal goes to floor), close bleeder, release pedal pressure. Repeat until you've flushed a sufficient amount of fluid through the line to feel confident you've gotten the air out. Also need to keep an eye on the reservoir so you don't pump it dry and draw air into the system from the top.
Yes, I know, I was just too lazy to retype, etc.
Quote from: MX793 on July 12, 2014, 01:32:06 PM
I've only done it on a motorcycle. Not sure I'd want to try it on a car and I'm not sure if it's possible to do without a helper. Maybe if you have one of those vacuum brake bleed kits...
Surgical tubing, coffee can, duct tape, and an extra quart of brake fluid.
(but the hand pump vacuum kits are cheap and work much easier)
They have some kind of kit that pressurizes the brake line for you so you can do it alone. For a little more $$$ though I can get it done professionally.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 12, 2014, 03:44:14 PM
They have some kind of kit that pressurizes the brake line for you so you can do it alone. For a little more $$$ though I can get it done professionally.
I think the kit I bought was around $40, and its worked on three different cars now. Its a cap that seals around the brake reservoir, and then the fluid gets sucked in through the bleeder valve.
But yeah, if you wanna take it in, take it in, and don't worry about what these punks think.
I did the wife's old neon in about an hour... Just used her to push in the brake pedal to bleed them. Easy stuff.
Are you sure your current master cylinder is sized right for the new calipers?
Quote from: r0tor on July 13, 2014, 02:11:13 PM
I did the wife's old neon in about an hour... Just used her to push in the brake pedal to bleed them. Easy stuff.
Are you sure your current master cylinder is sized right for the new calipers?
Same part # for all 350Zs
A/C is on the fritz.... I am feeling like it sprung a leak, I went to a baseball game last night and scraped the bottom of the car. I'm feeling like I dinged a line. Might be something with the interior thermostat too; controls like it is reading temps way lower than it is. Something's up.
Compressor clutch engaging?
Sound unusual?
Check pressure and system?
Add refrigerant?
I keep forgetting to check the clutch. I'll check it tonight. I don't have the stuff to check pressure... I will see if Autozone can do it for me. If it's a leak adding refrigerant won't help. Hoping for some dry weather so I can get it fixed and ride to work instead. That would suck. I wonder if I can get the lot to pay for it. It's a big wedge in the middle of the lot.
If you buy the refridgerant refill canisters they have a pressure gauge built in.... those cans also iusually have a sealant in them and dye so you can see where the leak is.
Stealership won't touch mods. If the weather holds up I'm gonna do the brakes myself this weekend. Front right wheel judders quite a bit once heat gets in the rotor.
A/C is fine. There is an intermittent problem with the controller- when I start it up first thing in the morning every now and then the fan barely blows. But then a couple hours later I start it up and it's fine. It's probably the fan at worst.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 08, 2014, 01:04:34 PM
Stealership won't touch mods.
Stop insisting on going to the dealership. Go to an independent shop.
Gonna take it to a recommended shop around here, hopefully get it done this weekend.
Been running a little math.... my commute is long as hell, I'm gonna be doing at least 20K a year. If I get a beater that can do 30 MPG on regular I'll save about $1300 a year. A 5th gen Accord (94-97) would do the trick and they are in abundance on CL for about 2K. Won't cost shit to insure. Pitched it to wifey, she's reluctant but not completely against it. Biggest thing will be finding a good one for the right price. Gonna wait till winter as my insurance should go down and I'll be in a better negotiating condition. I can offset the mileage with the bike a little bit but I'd rather not push it.
$2k Accord is gonna need some $$$ over 2-2.5 years, extending the break-even period. And you're stuck driving a $2k car all day.
Enjoy the Z.
This sounds like a pretty bad idea
Bad idea. Drive the Z.
Completely agree it's not a good idea if the goal is to save $$$; buying a (2nd) car never does that.
Sounds like a money pit, and not an exciting or amusing one at that. Driving a 350z and then going to an underpowered fwd car will feel like the penalty it is and more so.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 09, 2014, 03:05:20 PM
Completely agree it's not a good idea if the goal is to save $$$; buying a (2nd) car never does that.
+1
I punked out and took the Z to Goodyear. Was gonna try it myself but I didn't order a bleeder in time.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 09, 2014, 10:34:06 AM
Gonna take it to a recommended shop around here, hopefully get it done this weekend.
Been running a little math.... my commute is long as hell, I'm gonna be doing at least 20K a year. If I get a beater that can do 30 MPG on regular I'll save about $1300 a year. A 5th gen Accord (94-97) would do the trick and they are in abundance on CL for about 2K. Won't cost shit to insure. Pitched it to wifey, she's reluctant but not completely against it. Biggest thing will be finding a good one for the right price. Gonna wait till winter as my insurance should go down and I'll be in a better negotiating condition. I can offset the mileage with the bike a little bit but I'd rather not push it.
Ride your bike.
I have been, I just don't want to ride all the time and put myself at more risk.
Yesterday I took a new road home, and hit a patch of gravel. Could definitely have lost it if I were going faster. What I do think I will do is bone up for riding pants, boots and gauntlets so if I do go down on my own I will be better protected.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 16, 2014, 08:57:38 AM
I have been, I just don't want to ride all the time and put myself at more risk.
Yesterday I took a new road home, and hit a patch of gravel. Could definitely have lost it if I were going faster. What I do think I will do is bone up for riding pants, boots and gauntlets so if I do go down on my own I will be better protected.
Good idea...and don't be racing Mustangs.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 09, 2014, 10:34:06 AM
Gonna take it to a recommended shop around here, hopefully get it done this weekend.
Been running a little math.... my commute is long as hell, I'm gonna be doing at least 20K a year. If I get a beater that can do 30 MPG on regular I'll save about $1300 a year. A 5th gen Accord (94-97) would do the trick and they are in abundance on CL for about 2K. Won't cost shit to insure. Pitched it to wifey, she's reluctant but not completely against it. Biggest thing will be finding a good one for the right price. Gonna wait till winter as my insurance should go down and I'll be in a better negotiating condition. I can offset the mileage with the bike a little bit but I'd rather not push it.
It's tempting to think of a $2,000 car as a good way to save money, but really, if those could be counted on more people would want them and then the price would accordingly increase. You're talking about the price range in which cars are a crapshoot and the buyers are those who are spending the most they can afford upfront. Invest a few thousand more in something you can really depend on, and then get most of that extra cost back at resale time anyway.
So I got the car back.... brakes are mushy as hell.
Conventional bleeding doesnt work, as that doesn't get air out of the ABS circuit. So I bought a Motive pressure bleeder. Hopefully I can git r dun Tuesday night as that's the only open night we have before our trip to DC. Otherwise, we are gonna have to take wifey's car. I think Nissan can bleed them too but I don't know if I'll be able to get them to do it in time.
So you brought it to a shop to have the brakes bled because you don't have a bleeder, got it back, and bought a bleeder to bleed the brakes because the shop didn't do it right?
Bring it back and have them redo it or get your money reimbursed for the bleeding.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on August 18, 2014, 07:48:32 AM
So you brought it to a shop to have the brakes bled because you don't have a bleeder, got it back, and bought a bleeder to bleed the brakes because the shop didn't do it right?
Bring it back and have them redo it or get your money reimbursed for the bleeding.
+1
What Im guessing is the shop doesnt have a pressure bleeder. So if I take it back to them they will just waste my time. The biggie was swapping all the shit over... with the pressure bleeder it shouldn't take long to get the fluid out
Weather looks OK today. Just need another jackstand, and then I will get my brake pedal tite like prom nite. The pedal does feel a lot better than when I first got it but there is still way too much slack.
Service guy was right.... pedal is still not prom nite tite but it's a lot better. I think I will bleed it next weekend... inlaws are here now.
3 weeks to bleed brakes?
Might as well just scrap it.
I have had back to back trips and in law visits. Of course the forecast for this weekend is rain :banghead: I have to change all the cars' oil too so hopefully this weekend.
Last tank was an abysmal 19 MPG. Trying to keep my foot out of it and just be generally more patient behind the wheel- first trip on this tank today (~35 miles) put me back up to the mid 22s.
Fuck it. Keep your foot in it.
I think I'm gonna get rid of the Z for something more practical. Just on a day to day basis the road noise, lack of a back seat, crappy trunk are kind of annoying. Running costs are also a bitch... 20 MPG premium sucks when you are doing 25K miles a year. But the nail in the coffin are all these damn speeding tickets I'm getting. No points yet as I've been using a lawyer but with the fees it's just too much $$$. Plus I don't want to try the city's patience and lose my damn license.
I'm pretty much set on an 04ish 4 banger Accord coupe. That will cut my gas bill in half, be way more practical and still have an ounce of "fun to drive" factor. Plus I can tinker with it without spending tons of $$$ like I would with the Z. Def wanna do track days on the bike next year and hopefully get a full on track car down the line, like years and years from now. But when I bought the Z and the whole time I've had it I just had a nagging feeling I would sell it one day. It's too expensive to build a track car out of and it's just not a practical daily driver. O well. Fun while it lasted.
Gas bill, fine. But too many speeding tickets? Seriously?
Extreme beta
Quote from: CALL_911 on September 18, 2014, 08:51:13 AM
Gas bill, fine. But too many speeding tickets? Seriously?
I'm up to 4 just from this summer
How many do you have
Quote from: r0tor on September 18, 2014, 08:52:40 AM
Extreme beta
Naw, extreme beta would be keeping a car to impress some dudes on the internet
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 18, 2014, 08:46:28 AM
I think I'm gonna get rid of the Z for something more practical. Just on a day to day basis the road noise, lack of a back seat, crappy trunk are kind of annoying. Running costs are also a bitch... 20 MPG premium sucks when you are doing 25K miles a year. But the nail in the coffin are all these damn speeding tickets I'm getting. No points yet as I've been using a lawyer but with the fees it's just too much $$$. Plus I don't want to try the city's patience and lose my damn license.
I'm pretty much set on an 04ish 4 banger Accord coupe. That will cut my gas bill in half, be way more practical and still have an ounce of "fun to drive" factor. Plus I can tinker with it without spending tons of $$$ like I would with the Z. Def wanna do track days on the bike next year and hopefully get a full on track car down the line, like years and years from now. But when I bought the Z and the whole time I've had it I just had a nagging feeling I would sell it one day. It's too expensive to build a track car out of and it's just not a practical daily driver. O well. Fun while it lasted.
I think it's a good idea to sell your Z. It seems you are spending a lot of time on repairs and not having fun doing it. The combined expense of premium gas, not great gas mileage, and 20,000 miles/year driving pisses you off and will continue to do so the every 3 days you fill up with gas. 4 speeding tickets over the summer is just shitty. Lawyering up 4 times probably added 2000 dollars to 1000 dollars worth of fines.
Getting a more fuel efficient car that doesn't require premium will psychologically be awesome every time you fill up. A Z driven fast gets noticed by law enforcement and so getting a more mainstreamer car will definitely cut down your speeding tickets unless you're speeding stupid.
The thing I don't get is the 4 banger 2004ish Accord coupe. Hondas are cool but way overpriced on the used car market. A quick check on Autotrader showed them being in the 6 - 8 thousand dollar range, all with over 100,000 miles. Why the fuck would you pay that kind of cash for a 10 year old mainstreamer with that many miles? That car won't likely be any more reliable than your Z.
Maybe consider a much newer lower mileage Ford Focus.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 18, 2014, 08:46:28 AM
I think I'm gonna get rid of the Z for something more practical. Just on a day to day basis the road noise, lack of a back seat, crappy trunk are kind of annoying. Running costs are also a bitch... 20 MPG premium sucks when you are doing 25K miles a year. But the nail in the coffin are all these damn speeding tickets I'm getting. No points yet as I've been using a lawyer but with the fees it's just too much $$$. Plus I don't want to try the city's patience and lose my damn license.
I'm pretty much set on an 04ish 4 banger Accord coupe. That will cut my gas bill in half, be way more practical and still have an ounce of "fun to drive" factor. Plus I can tinker with it without spending tons of $$$ like I would with the Z. Def wanna do track days on the bike next year and hopefully get a full on track car down the line, like years and years from now. But when I bought the Z and the whole time I've had it I just had a nagging feeling I would sell it one day. It's too expensive to build a track car out of and it's just not a practical daily driver. O well. Fun while it lasted.
How can you lose your license if you're beating these tickets? Good man on that BTW. All tickets should be taken to court. Grind the system to a halt.
Tickets are gonna happen in any car. Sounds like your area is bonkers with traffic enforcement and that you're maybe not being prudent enough.
I've never been a "sports car" fan for the reasons you cite. They're just not that practical for modern life, or at least my life anyway, and most any "sports" car isn't any more fun or higher performance that a corresponding coupe or sedan (case in point Z vs. G37 coupe or sedan).
I've always liked mazda's.
A First gen Mazda 3 hatch should be pretty cheap, look hard and you might find a really clean one with lower miles that might only cost a grand more than the rest. Should be very practical, with a bit of fun tossed in the mix.
Honda's suck....for what you have to pay for them. I've never understood the appeal, they are really no more sporty than anything else and come with a considerable premium while having a much higher chance of being mistreated/under maintained and in general trashed.
You're going to get rid of a car because you get too many speeding tickets? The problem isn't the car.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 18, 2014, 10:20:13 AM
You're going to get rid of a car because you get too many speeding tickets? The problem isn't the car.
I can relate. If I hadn't gotten rid of my '67 Sunbeam Tiger, I would've lost my license. The combination of sound, power and stop light drags was just too intoxicating.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 18, 2014, 10:20:13 AM
You're going to get rid of a car because you get too many speeding tickets? The problem isn't the car.
The car doesn't help.
The Z has been pretty reliable. Only big thing I spent money on was brakes and that was mostly by choice. Starts and runs no problem. Only issue is a little oil consumption which is the case for all VQ35s. I'm not scared of an older car at all... a 10 year old Accord is just getting started.
I thought about the Mazda 3. I will give some a shot. They and Mazda 6s are like 1/2 the cost of a same year Accord, and they are supposedly fun to drive. I just have never really been a Mazda fan. Plus for some reason they get like 2-3 MPG worse than an Accord despite having a smaller engine. I will check them out though. I could live with a fully loaded 6 5 spd.
My area is a little hoity toity so the cops kind of don't have much to do. Seems like this summer they ramped up enforcement and put out a lot of traps that I just walked into. Been here for about a year and a half and everything really just started this summer. Driving around the neighborhood, I wasn't really pushing it... but if you are more than 10 over they will pull you over. So in the neighborhood now I keep things pegged at the speed limit... doesn't make a difference in making or missing the millions of lights around so it makes sense to just slow down. The last ticket on my bike was just me being an idiot though. I was far from home, but I was pushing way too hard on the bike. I just need to get a track day membership and call it a day.
I think a large part of why I bought the Z was kind of a third-life crisis moment. Wanted to get a sports car while the opportunity was still available. Realistically I'm probably never going to buy a Porsche unless we get obscenely rich or 996s continue to plummet in value, and nothing else I can afford really entices me. I'm gonna dump the Z for something pedestrian, clean up my license, save up my $$$ and hopefully jump back into something like an M235i or 435i GC in a few years. It was fun but I'm OK with letting the Z go... always felt like it was never really meant to be.
How much $$ are your really going to save by driving a boring econosedan?
Quote from: r0tor on September 18, 2014, 01:10:55 PM
How much $$ are your really going to save by driving a boring econosedan?
$1700 a year on gas according to my math and current gas prices. I know you make it a point to appear to not care about gas mileage until people start talking about your parents' Fusion Hybrid but it can be a legitimate concern. Plus there are other practical concerns.
Accord four cylinders are prettttttttty boring. We had an EX-L with a stick.
Miata. Fun, decent gas mileage, and if it's not modded or driven super troopers style, I doubt you'll get pulled over in one
You're going to sell the Z for something less fun, and just get tired of that.
Quote from: Laconian on September 18, 2014, 02:33:46 PM
Accord four cylinders are prettttttttty boring. We had an EX-L with a stick.
They can improve a lot with mild mods. New springs/shocks and some mild bolt ons transform them without hurting gas mileage at all.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on September 18, 2014, 02:43:21 PM
You're going to sell the Z for something less fun, and just get tired of that.
:hesaid: I'd keep the Z and buy a $1000-$1500 beater (small 4cyl sedan)! Commute and do all the family stuff in the beater and drive the Z when you wanna have a lil fun! That makes more sense to me than buying an Accord and adding bolt ons......... :huh:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 18, 2014, 01:44:50 PM
$1700 a year on gas according to my math and current gas prices. I know you make it a point to appear to not care about gas mileage until people start talking about your parents' Fusion Hybrid but it can be a legitimate concern. Plus there are other practical concerns.
Now subtract out rpair costs on a 10 year old Accord. Not worth it if driving fun is omething important in your life.
My wife is on crutches right now and cant drive... yet I still had no urge this week to take her Focus to work which gets about 2x my RX8 mpg... and its not like the Focus is even a bad car
sporty(accordy) misses his ricer days.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 18, 2014, 06:11:32 PM
:hesaid: I'd keep the Z and buy a $1000-$1500 beater (small 4cyl sedan)! Commute and do all the family stuff in the beater and drive the Z when you wanna have a lil fun! That makes more sense to me than buying an Accord and adding bolt ons......... :huh:
I thought about this. Lot of folks here said bad idea, but didnt have any convincing arguments as to why though. The thing is, if I keep the Z and get a beater, realistically I will probably never drive the Z. And the beater will be too shitty to use on the weekends and for road trips and shit. Plus then I have to insure both cars. I guess I could get that low mileage insurance for the Z but I probably would drive it like once a month realistically. I'm too busy. I don't even go for pleasure rides anymore, which are thankfully kind of rendered unnecessary by my awesome commute.
Quote from: r0tor on September 18, 2014, 06:24:02 PM
Now subtract out rpair costs on a 10 year old Accord. Not worth it if driving fun is omething important in your life.
My wife is on crutches right now and cant drive... yet I still had no urge this week to take her Focus to work which gets about 2x my RX8 mpg... and its not like the Focus is even a bad car
Lol. Wat are you talking about. Is your wife being on crutches why you are so uptight lately?
Anyways, what problem does a 10 year old Accord have? My first Accord was 10 years old 10 years ago. Only problem it ever had was my fault- pothole took out my oil pump and grenaded the motor. Other than that, which won't be a problem down here, no problems. No rust, no electrical gremlins, no suspension/brake issues, not even a timing belt- K24A uses a chain. So what problems are you talking about... there is a reason those cars still go for damn near 10K for low mileage clean examples.... they run forever.
Quote from: Rupert on September 18, 2014, 07:16:28 PM
sporty(accordy) misses his ricer days.
High key this is not a lie. I do miss tinkering with cars, and the Z is too expensive and high strung for that. Best intake is the stock intake. Car is too loud for an exhaust. So barring a plenum spacer bolt ons are pretty much DOA. A suspension worth putting on the car, after alignment parts and everything is gonna be like 2K. Car is too loud to do any stereo upgrades on. Etc etc. I thought I could stomach the costs of bolt ons when I bought it, but I'm realizing I can't. Accord has a lot of low hanging fruit and cheap parts. And it would be a better road trip car and all that too.
Please don't buy an Accord, just for the sake of variety. Please? Even a TSX, just not an Accord!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 18, 2014, 07:46:58 PM
High key this is not a lie. I do miss tinkering with cars, and the Z is too expensive and high strung for that. Best intake is the stock intake. Car is too loud for an exhaust. So barring a plenum spacer bolt ons are pretty much DOA. A suspension worth putting on the car, after alignment parts and everything is gonna be like 2K. Car is too loud to do any stereo upgrades on. Etc etc. I thought I could stomach the costs of bolt ons when I bought it, but I'm realizing I can't. Accord has a lot of low hanging fruit and cheap parts. And it would be a better road trip car and all that too.
I mean, you're basically saying you want to buy a worse car than the one you have.
I get that the Z is not doing it for you, but it seems like there are way more interesting and better cars that would suit your needs.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on September 18, 2014, 02:41:39 PM
Miata. Fun, decent gas mileage, and if it's not modded or driven super troopers style, I doubt you'll get pulled over in one
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 18, 2014, 10:06:58 AM
Honda's suck....for what you have to pay for them. I've never understood the appeal, they are really no more sporty than anything else and come with a considerable premium while having a much higher chance of being mistreated/under maintained and in general trashed.
+1
I'd say get something interesting.
I think you'd enjoy a Miata a LOT, you can literally feel the pavement markings, and you can rev it/ drive it hard without really getting too fast for the coppers.
BUT if you like Hondas, you like 'em. Nothing terrible about them, and they're about as anonymous as you can get. :huh:
I second the tsx suggestion.
But hey, cant pass up a 140k mile accord with a $400 china made "drift king" suspension and a 2 hp cold air intake.
:lol:
Why pay $400 for China springs when you can just cut the OE ones?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 18, 2014, 08:46:28 AM
I think I'm gonna get rid of the Z for something more practical. Just on a day to day basis the road noise, lack of a back seat, crappy trunk are kind of annoying. Running costs are also a bitch... 20 MPG premium sucks when you are doing 25K miles a year. But the nail in the coffin are all these damn speeding tickets I'm getting. No points yet as I've been using a lawyer but with the fees it's just too much $$$. Plus I don't want to try the city's patience and lose my damn license.
I'm pretty much set on an 04ish 4 banger Accord coupe. That will cut my gas bill in half, be way more practical and still have an ounce of "fun to drive" factor. Plus I can tinker with it without spending tons of $$$ like I would with the Z. Def wanna do track days on the bike next year and hopefully get a full on track car down the line, like years and years from now. But when I bought the Z and the whole time I've had it I just had a nagging feeling I would sell it one day. It's too expensive to build a track car out of and it's just not a practical daily driver. O well. Fun while it lasted.
LOL
"Well shit, these speeding tickets keep coming. Shitty-ass car."
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on September 18, 2014, 08:53:30 PM
Why pay $400 for China springs when you can just cut the OE ones?
Can we just fast forward to where you act like an abused middle schooler and FYA out of here again? The middle part where you slowly ramp up to something stupid to get buttmad over is excruciating.
How about an EF CRX?
I think a Geo Metro would fit the bill
I think he should go the other direction. Like an olive drab Nova with a 383 and some Big Daddy Roth junk on the trunk.
This is the weakest excuse I've seen for getting rid of a car. If you want to go back to your rice days, why not just admit it.
I don't think a 10 year old Accord is going to give you problems. Hell, I bought a 23 year old SUV for my DD. I do think that moving from one car to another due to "speeding tickets" is the dumbest reason ever, though. Also, the argument that you can't tinker with the Z is BS. Maybe if you actually had some self control, you could use that lawyer money on upgrades. Go take out your brap brap race car dreams on your new steering wheel setup and Forza.
Have you considered a radar detector?
How about a 10 year old Mazda 6 or a Mazdaspeed 6? Those would be far more fun than an Accord.
Quote from: afty on September 18, 2014, 10:35:59 PM
Have you considered a radar detector?
Yea, I think this is going to be mandatory regardless of what I do.
Re: Miatas.... :pee:
If practicality & road noise are concerned.... seems pretty stupid to go from a Z something even more impractical and unrefined. Plus they are just as overpriced as Accords, and would get washed by a modded Accord in a straight line. I test drove an NB for the hell of it and while it was kind of fun, it was basically everything bad about the Z turned up a little bit with 1/2 the performance, for the same $$$. No, if I were to go the 2 seater route I'd go with something more obscure/cerebral like an MR-S or S2000. MR-Ss are also severely overpriced down here though.
Quote from: Rupert on September 18, 2014, 07:53:23 PM
I mean, you're basically saying you want to buy a worse car than the one you have.
I get that the Z is not doing it for you, but it seems like there are way more interesting and better cars that would suit your needs.
"Worse" how?
And for 8ish K what "way more interesting and better" legit 4 seater cars
that get ~27 MPG combined on regular are there? I'm sure a Mazda 6 is marginally better but I doubt it comes close to even splitting the difference between an Accord and a Z. I will check them out but my expectations are low... it's still a ~3300lb FWD 4 banger sedan.
Anything like a 3 series or a Saab is out... well, I am still thinking about an E36 if the planets align for it... but for the most part, not much cheaper to run and potential for "character flares" I don't have time for. Even the TSX is borderline as it needs premium...
Remember... I drive ~500 miles a week. That's 26K miles a year. When I bought the Z I did not anticipate such a long commute. As fun as it is it's not the car for that kind of duty. If all I cared about was fun I probably would have got something else to be totally honest.
The idea behind the Miata is that it gives you the same thrills at lower speeds; the idea isn't that it'll get beaten by an Accord: but that it'll be more fun than one. There's some truth to this idea, but if it aint your thing, it aint your thing.
Go buy a friggin buick if you want boring power....
It would be way faster and "refined" than your old honda.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 19, 2014, 03:34:51 AM
The idea behind the Miata is that it gives you the same thrills at lower speeds; the idea isn't that it'll get beaten by an Accord: but that it'll be more fun than one. There's some truth to this idea, but if it aint your thing, it aint your thing.
Exactly. Plus I drove mine full throttle up to 4th gear every light and never got under 28mpg.
I was surprised you got the Z in the first place since you already had a bike. What about the RSX-S instead? I'd go for the 4-door if I was buying an Accord.
Your going to blow more money on mods trying to convince yourself you didn't make a mistake then save on gas.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 19, 2014, 03:34:51 AM
The idea behind the Miata is that it gives you the same thrills at lower speeds; the idea isn't that it'll get beaten by an Accord: but that it'll be more fun than one. There's some truth to this idea, but if it aint your thing, it aint your thing.
I get it. If I were looking for my first track car I'd consider it. But it's not a car I would want to drive 500 miles a week, or a car I would want to take on road trips or go out in.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 19, 2014, 04:11:25 AM
Go buy a friggin buick if you want boring power....
It would be way faster and "refined" than your old honda.
I'm looking at 160HP 3100lb cars.... "power" is not a factor here.
Quote from: Tave on September 19, 2014, 05:48:31 AM
I was surprised you got the Z in the first place since you already had a bike. What about the RSX-S instead? I'd go for the 4-door if I was buying an Accord.
They don't make a 4 door RSX. I wish they did. They have a tarted up Civic in Canada called the CSX. I would do one of those in a heartbeat. The TSX could work though.
Quote from: r0tor on September 19, 2014, 05:51:30 AM
Your going to blow more money on mods trying to convince yourself you didn't make a mistake then save on gas.
Doubtful. I'm going to save $1700/yr in gas alone... I won't spend that much on mods.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 18, 2014, 11:22:59 PM
How about a 10 year old Mazda 6 or a Mazdaspeed 6? Those would be far more fun than an Accord.
That engine is crap and unless you nuke the clutch that car isn't that fast. 5-60 from a roll is about 7 seconds. Accord is about 8. And it guzzles premium gas like my car. For that money I'd rather get a 330i.
I actually kind of understand where 12,000 is coming from. If I had a commute like that I probably wouldn't want to drive a sports car back and forth.
That being said, I personally wouldn't go with an Accord. I think I'd prefer something newer like a Fusion or Malibu (will be able to get a newer model for about the same price), or maybe go smaller and look at a Civic, Focus, or Mazda 3 (particularly with a hatchback).
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 19, 2014, 05:56:52 AM
They don't make a 4 door RSX. I wish they did. They have a tarted up Civic in Canada called the CSX. I would do one of those in a heartbeat. The TSX could work though.
Oh I meant go with the RSX if you preferred a coupe.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on September 19, 2014, 06:10:20 AM
I actually kind of understand where 12,000 is coming from. If I had a commute like that I probably wouldn't want to drive a sports car back and forth.
That being said, I personally wouldn't go with an Accord. I think I'd prefer something newer like a Fusion or Malibu (will be able to get a newer model for about the same price), or maybe go smaller and look at a Civic, Focus, or Mazda 3 (particularly with a hatchback).
I have always had mixed feelings about the 2006-2011 Civic. On one hand, this isn't well known, but weight aside it's Honda's best Civic chassis ever by a decent margin. They fixed the geometry issues they had on the 2002-2005 and got the struts to work phenomentally. On the other hand... that interior is ghastly. That said, initially I wrote it off because I figured it would be too slow... but performance wise it's only about 2 ticks off of the Accord in non Si form. I could maybe do one of those in EX-L trim. I have always liked the exteriors of those.
Quote from: Tave on September 19, 2014, 06:26:19 AM
Oh I meant go with the RSX if you preferred a coupe.
Girl I knew in high school had one. The back seat sucked. Good cars otherwise though. I do really like the TSX. Just wish it didn't need premium
What's the difference between a modded accord and a modded taurus?
I'm having a hard to trying to see the appeal, I guess it's just different strokes.
Aren't Jetta's pretty damn cheap? You could probably find a 1.8T or an older VR6 GLI for that kind of cash.
Don't get me wrong, it's just moving from one form of mainstream midsize douchery to another(though slightly more premium). Premium douchery. :lol:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 19, 2014, 07:35:27 AM
What's the difference between a modded accord and a modded taurus?
I'm having a hard to trying to see the appeal, I guess it's just different strokes.
Aren't Jetta's pretty damn cheap? You could probably find a 1.8T or an older VR6 GLI for that kind of cash.
Don't get me wrong, it's just moving from one form of mainstream midsize douchery to another(though slightly more premium). Premium douchery. :lol:
Well, for starters, about 500 lbs. And the Taurus doesn't come in stickshift. And the Taurus has zero aftermarket support. So a lot actually.
And it's not about "appeal". I'm not trying to replace the Z with something as fun to drive... I need a practical daily driver that's good on gas and comfy for long daily drives that won't bore me to death.
Old Jettas are cheap for a reason. As much as I love the VR6 engine and how MKIVs look, all VWs from that era are terrible cars to own. Every last one of them. You couldn't pay me to drive one for any trip where I need to get where I'm going.
And again............................................ this is not an "enthusiast" move. If it were up to me I would probably get a 1G CTS-V or E39 M5. But I can't do those gas bills. $150 a month in my pocket and a comfier more usable daily driver seems worth losing the Z for. And besides, I still have the bike which is paid off, gets 40 MPG and costs like $250 a year to insure. So I'm pretty much covered
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 19, 2014, 07:54:21 AM
Well, for starters, about 500 lbs. And the Taurus doesn't come in stickshift. And the Taurus has zero aftermarket support. So a lot actually.
And it's not about "appeal". I'm not trying to replace the Z with something as fun to drive... I need a practical daily driver that's good on gas and comfy for long daily drives that won't bore me to death.
Old Jettas are cheap for a reason. As much as I love the VR6 engine and how MKIVs look, all VWs from that era are terrible cars to own. Every last one of them. You couldn't pay me to drive one for any trip where I need to get where I'm going.
And again............................................ this is not an "enthusiast" move. If it were up to me I would probably get a 1G CTS-V or E39 M5. But I can't do those gas bills. $150 a month in my pocket and a comfier more usable daily driver seems worth losing the Z for. And besides, I still have the bike which is paid off, gets 40 MPG and costs like $250 a year to insure. So I'm pretty much covered
I understand what you are saying, I guess to me personally their just seems to be better options(even from honda) in the psudo sporty catagory than such a mainstream bore like the accord.
I really am surprised you aren't TSX hunting, it's a bit smaller and tighter than an accord but gives back in the dynamics department.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 19, 2014, 06:52:39 AM
Girl I knew in high school had one. The back seat sucked. Good cars otherwise though. I do really like the TSX. Just wish it didn't need premium
It's a little tight back there but not very far off from the Accord coupe. That's why I was saying, if you want the Accord get a 4-door.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 19, 2014, 06:05:59 AM
That engine is crap and unless you nuke the clutch that car isn't that fast. 5-60 from a roll is about 7 seconds. Accord is about 8. And it guzzles premium gas like my car. For that money I'd rather get a 330i.
The regular first generation Mazda6 with a manual is a hoot to drive, nevermind the Mazdaspeed6. Even a regular Mazda6 would most definitely bridge the gap in terms of fun.
A manual V6 Mazda 6 Hatch would be the shizzy snap.
Only real negative I could say about the 1st generation 6 is that the Duratec 3.0 is a little thirsty compared to some others in that class. But they are a nice driving car. Light by midsizer standards and taught without being punishing.
4 door civic si (you could get one with an LSD right?) /thread
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 19, 2014, 05:56:52 AM
I'm looking at 160HP 3100lb cars.... "power" is not a factor here.
eh, we suggested Miata because you want more fun but less tickets. :huh: You shot down the Miata based on refinement and being smoked by an Accord.
Boring sedan would be more refined and smoke the 4banger Accord.
You want a ricer, got it. :lol: really nothing wrong with it, just throwing out alternatives.
(I'm totally excluding Subies from cars I'd recommend- not the best gas mileage, you don't seem to need the awd...)
In MY perfect garage I'd have
-Miata for fun/weekends/commuting
-Jetta sportwagon for longer driving/grocery getting
-Flex or similar for cramming everyone in and/or towing
-Subie for winter funz
Plus a car for my wife. :lol:
I will def check out the 6. V6 is no go, damn near same gas mileage as the Z with like 60% of the performance. Mazdas guzzle gas. 1st gen 6 2.3 sedan is doable though.
My perfect garage would probably be something like a Fiesta ST for DD, a weird track car (Z3M shoe, 2ZZ MR-S, V6 MR2, VQ35 E36 etc), 9-5 Aero wagon and a Volt for wifey
Thats a dream garage for what I could realistically afford to run, I think.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 19, 2014, 10:10:16 AM
In MY perfect garage I'd have
-Miata for fun/weekends/commuting
-Jetta sportwagon for longer driving/grocery getting
-Flex or similar for cramming everyone in and/or towing
-Subie for winter funz
Plus a car for my wife. :lol:
My perfect "affordable" garage would be:
1. Mustang Boss 302 (fun, daily commute)
2. Dodge Durango (towing, winter, family trips)
3. BMW Z4 (wife's car, trips for just the two of us)
That covers every need.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 19, 2014, 02:14:59 AM
"Worse" how?
You just said that a) the Z can't really be improved upon for reasonable bucks, and b) you would do a lot of cheap things to improve a hypothetical Honda. Sounds like the Z is a better car, ergo the Honda is worse.
I've always wanted a 5th gen prelude, I bet those are getting pretty cheap. Not as practical but a nice car no doubt.
Quote from: Rupert on September 19, 2014, 11:42:17 AM
You just said that a) the Z can't really be improved upon for reasonable bucks, and b) you would do a lot of cheap things to improve a hypothetical Honda. Sounds like the Z is a better car, ergo the Honda is worse.
Performance wise, yea. But I can't reduce the road noise, or add a back seat, or add 5-10 MPG to the Z. So from a total ownership POV in the context of how I use the car, at best it's a wash, but really something more practical and economical than the Z is a better fit. Modding the Accord wouldn't be to try and get it up to the Z's level- that's idiotic. It would just be to make it a little more fun and satisfy my inner ricer.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 19, 2014, 11:44:52 AM
I've always wanted a 5th gen prelude, I bet those are getting pretty cheap. Not as practical but a nice car no doubt.
Yea I am seriously considering those too. If I can sit behind myself in relative comfort that might be a go. The premium gas thing sucks but they are cheaper and more fun than the Accord/TSX. I test drove one when I was shopping for the Z and wasn't crazy about it, but the guy had a stupid exhaust on it and it was loaded up with me, him, and my wife with the A/C on so that wasn't a fair assessment. There are a lot of them out there but they are starting to die off from rice cancer.
KeepZ
A cheese wedge Civic sedan is about that price.
I'm having a hard time choosing between that and an EP3, RSX and MK1 Fit.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 19, 2014, 11:44:52 AM
I've always wanted a 5th gen prelude, I bet those are getting pretty cheap. Not as practical but a nice car no doubt.
If that's the one I think it is, I've liked those for a long time too.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 20, 2014, 01:13:30 AM
A cheese wedge Civic sedan is about that price.
I'm having a hard time choosing between that and an EP3, RSX and MK1 Fit.
Not having driven any, I'd say RSX > EP3 > Fit. But that's mostly on looks. All things considered, the EP3 is probably the best overall choice, the Fit the most practical, and the RSX the least logical.
Wouldn't an RSX get stolen within a few weeks?
What does EP3 stand for? What car is that?
EP3 is the 2002-2005 Civic Si hatchback. Looked like a dodgeball with a backwards cap. Kind of anemic with the 2.0 160 HP motor.
The more and more I look into it, the more I like the TSX. Faster/nicer out of the box, better handling, easier to tune, not much more expensive to buy or run. Just have to sell the Z and find one locally.
Wow, this thread has fallen off so hard.
Just buy a E46 325/330i and be done with it. Cheap to own, maintain and RWD. You're talking about Civic Si's and TSX's from a 350Z, what is wrong with you?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 20, 2014, 08:32:12 AM
EP3 is the 2002-2005 Civic Si hatchback. Looked like a dodgeball with a backwards cap. Kind of anemic with the 2.0 160 HP motor.
The more and more I look into it, the more I like the TSX. Faster/nicer out of the box, better handling, easier to tune, not much more expensive to buy or run. Just have to sell the Z and find one locally.
You're comparing it to an Accord which has the same weight and....
Fuck it. You've already decided on another fucking accord.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 20, 2014, 09:56:02 AM
Fuck it. You've already decided on another fucking accord.
:lol:
I think that was decided couple pages ago....
Quote from: Char on September 20, 2014, 08:53:47 AM
Wow, this thread has fallen off so hard.
Just buy a E46 325/330i and be done with it. Cheap to own, maintain and RWD. You're talking about Civic Si's and TSX's from a 350Z, what is wrong with you?
Yeah, I agree
Quote from: Char on September 20, 2014, 08:53:47 AM
Just buy a E46 325/330i and be done with it. Cheap to own, maintain and RWD. You're talking about Civic Si's and TSX's from a 350Z, what is wrong with you?
:hesaid:
I'm guessing he'd be happier with a tsx, which out of the box would probably be 90% as fun as a 325. The e46 being cheap must be a relative comment. Cheap for a bmw, no doubt. But they arent cheap, certainly compared to Japanese cars.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 20, 2014, 01:50:01 PM
I'm guessing he'd be happier with a tsx, which out of the box would probably be 90% as fun as a 325. The e46 being cheap must be a relative comment. Cheap for a bmw, no doubt. But they arent cheap, certainly compared to Japanese cars.
They are cheap. Cooling system is the bane of any BMW's existence - a water pump can be had for 50 bucks and takes 30 minutes to change. Ask me how I know.
Quote from: Char on September 20, 2014, 02:05:09 PM
They are cheap. Cooling system is the bane of any BMW's existence - a water pump can be had for 50 bucks and takes 30 minutes to change. Ask me how I know.
You did it on your mom's Quest?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 18, 2014, 11:16:58 AM
The car doesn't help.
The Z has been pretty reliable. Only big thing I spent money on was brakes and that was mostly by choice. Starts and runs no problem. Only issue is a little oil consumption which is the case for all VQ35s. I'm not scared of an older car at all... a 10 year old Accord is just getting started.
I thought about the Mazda 3. I will give some a shot. They and Mazda 6s are like 1/2 the cost of a same year Accord, and they are supposedly fun to drive. I just have never really been a Mazda fan. Plus for some reason they get like 2-3 MPG worse than an Accord despite having a smaller engine. I will check them out though. I could live with a fully loaded 6 5 spd.
My area is a little hoity toity so the cops kind of don't have much to do. Seems like this summer they ramped up enforcement and put out a lot of traps that I just walked into. Been here for about a year and a half and everything really just started this summer. Driving around the neighborhood, I wasn't really pushing it... but if you are more than 10 over they will pull you over. So in the neighborhood now I keep things pegged at the speed limit... doesn't make a difference in making or missing the millions of lights around so it makes sense to just slow down. The last ticket on my bike was just me being an idiot though. I was far from home, but I was pushing way too hard on the bike. I just need to get a track day membership and call it a day.
I think a large part of why I bought the Z was kind of a third-life crisis moment. Wanted to get a sports car while the opportunity was still available. Realistically I'm probably never going to buy a Porsche unless we get obscenely rich or 996s continue to plummet in value, and nothing else I can afford really entices me. I'm gonna dump the Z for something pedestrian, clean up my license, save up my $$$ and hopefully jump back into something like an M235i or 435i GC in a few years. It was fun but I'm OK with letting the Z go... always felt like it was never really meant to be.
I don't know, man. You can speed just as well in any other car and get tickets. I have my doubts the car is the real problem. You're probably just pushing the envelope a bit too much and just need to rein yourself in enough that your tickets are spaced out better.
I hate to see a dude who enjoys driving give up a fun car for something boring. And I have my doubts about the practicality of buying an older car for a long commute.
Think about it a little more before you take the plunge.
Quote from: thecarnut on September 20, 2014, 02:05:46 PM
You did it on your mom's Quest?
No, he does his own work on the E90 his parents bought him to feel like he has an ownership stake in it.
Re: E46 being "cheap to run"
(http://i.imgur.com/Z6Tw86m.png?1)
QuoteNo car is perfect, even the beloved BMW e46 3-series, Manufactured 1999-2006. These cars are a favorite among Bimmer aficionados and were consistently named to Car & Driver's Top Ten. But as with any long-lasting vehicle, they have some common problems that an owner should look for and then repair with a qualified, independent BMW Repair Shop.
Front and Rear Window Regulators: The automatic windows in your 3-series may fail overtime, due to inadequate design or common wear and tear. This may be prevented by diligent maintenance, however the fact that they are built with plastic pulleys and thin cables means that they could still fail and leave them stuck in the down position.
Power Steering Pump: If you hear a deep growl or can feel something rubbing against the steering column, the power steering pump on your BMW may be failing. Check the fluids and filter prior to contacting a mechanic.
Cooling System: The cooling system in an e46 is complex, with many parts working together to keep the engine running cool and smooth. Any deviance noticed in the temperature gauge should be noted, prior to the engine overheating, which could lead to other costly problems.
Rear Subframe Tearing: In 2009 there was a class action settlement with BMW concerning the rear subframe of some of the e46 3-series tearing or cracking. Owners should be aware of loud noises coming from the rear of the vehicle when traveling even moderately bumpy roads and contact a mechanic for inspection.
Overboosted Steering: BMWs are known for their steering, so if the vehicle is overcompensating, or not reacting to a driver, there may be a problem that needs repair. This was prevalent in the e46 model year 2001 vehicles that were manufactured from June 2000 to April 2001.
Tail Lamp Wiring: The tail lamp wiring in the e46 3-series was subject to recall several years ago. This includes the 2002-05 three-series sedans, model numbers 325I, 325XI, 330I and 330XI.
No such issues on the TSX.
I suppose a 458 Italia is "cheap to run" compared to a 348, but it's still a red hot Ferrari (pun intended)
And I'm pretty sure a lot of the folks screaming "325i" were the same chowderheads dumping on the equally slow IS250 (which BTW has 6 speeds to the 325i's 5). 325i mods are also eye wideningly expensive and low value. $1000 buys an intake for a 325i... same money buys a reflash and I/H/E good for 40-50 HP on the TSX. Gas mileage on the 325i also sucks. Just a terrible choice. What criteria are you guys using?
I want something
- reliable
- comfy for 4 legitimate adults
- gets at least 25 MPG combined
- <16s quarter mile
- relatively moddable
Not very difficult.
TSX is a good pick IMO. Looks amazing and probably great to drive (plus Honda's amazing manual).
The only thing is I don't get why you'd say an EP3 is anemic but still want a heavier, even slower Accord with the same HP.
Re: "downgrading"
Cars come and go... there is more to life than what car you drive. This is painfully evident in the relationship between age and opinions.... all the kids here can't understand why one would sell a sports car, as I imagine the kids here identify through their cars way more than the grown folks here. It is true that the car only does what I want and I need more self control, but again... if a speed demon has a car that rewards being pushed beyond the bounds of what's legal it won't lead to good things.
If all the folks throwing shade and crying would like to donate to my legal fund and gas budget maybe I will reconsider.... otherwise, GFYS. When u guys start planning families and buying houses then hit me up about sports car ownership... see if u feel as strong.
Re: Accords
They are good cars. TSX is the cream of that crop... a great looking, great handling, easy to own ride. And Accords in general are great cars. Dirt cheap, fun to drive, anonymous, practical etc. Mazda 6 is OK, but really its only plus is that it appeals to contrarians and is more fun out of the box than an Accord (not TSX).
Dont hate me cause I'm practical baby.
Quote from: thecarnut on September 20, 2014, 04:17:43 PM
TSX is a good pick IMO. Looks amazing and probably great to drive (plus Honda's amazing manual).
The only thing is I don't get why you'd say an EP3 is anemic but still want a heavier, even slower Accord with the same HP.
EP3's motor is tapped out on power, and its suspension is absolute garbage. Real Time Racing successfully lobbied to the SCCA to essentially rebuild its RSX's suspension from scratch. Out of the box and stock it's OK but that's not my flow.
Accord 2.4 is severely detuned and uncorks quickly with cheap parts (mainly from the TSX). Suspension is also much better. Only weighs about 300 or so lbs more as well which is a good amount but nothing insurmountable. In any case I think the TSX is a better fit... its generally better/cheaper to buy the car with the upgrades rather than to do them yourself, and nobody does upgrades better than OEMs.
Just because a a set up doesnt make for a good race suspension doesn't mean it's not a good street suspension. The EP3 handled pretty well, and sharper than any Accord ive driven.
Anyways, if its an Accord you want, get it.
I just don't see any of head cars having a net effect on the speeding ticket collection rate.
Are you really this stupid?
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/270486_10151419835436622_999145248_n.jpg?oh=aa53647dae5535ab9a3a45f18de3429a&oe=54C7FABB&__gda__=1419156876_d5bc3b79fd2c517ac10c71d6b409314d)
Yeah dude, tell me again how I have no experience on these cars, and how I don't know what I'm talking about. I've owned 2 M52tu/M54 powered cars, plus I have a friend who owns a E30/E36/E46 (pictured above, next to my previous Z)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/6qfn1e.png)
Also dude, tell me more about how I made 20whp for under $500 - before headers and intake manifold (which are worth an additional 25whp)
You're stupid - it's an issue everyone has been dancing around in this thread for a while now. You should stick to being angry in the OT forum and leave the car talk to people who know what they are talking about.
I'm sorry, I've just never seen someone post so much dumb shit before. E46's are very cheap and part cost are cheap as well -
Coil packs? (YES, they will go bad)
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Engine/Ignition/ (http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Engine/Ignition/)
$230-$330 Including plugs which are another $50
Cooling system refresh? Try $330
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Engine/Cooling/ES2063861/ (http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Engine/Cooling/ES2063861/)
A full brake refresh + upgrade for $475
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Braking/Performance/ (http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Braking/Performance/)
Mods?
Header/Exhaust/Off the shelf tune vs Cams
(http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=345505&stc=1&d=1264013325)
A cheap $180 long tune intake was another 7whp across the board over that. 240WHP (that's E90 power in a lighter chassis!)
Want mods?
http://dinancars.com/product/d760-0002-dinan-high-flow-intake-system-for-bmw-330i-330ci-330xi-e46-2001-2006-2/ (http://dinancars.com/product/d760-0002-dinan-high-flow-intake-system-for-bmw-330i-330ci-330xi-e46-2001-2006-2/)
$200 for a DINAN intake. This is OVERPRICED DINAN we are talking about
http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/BMW_Performance_Shark_Injector.html (http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/BMW_Performance_Shark_Injector.html)
$350 for a SHARK INJECTOR - best off the shelf tune besides OE tuning
http://www.bimmerbrakes.com/Performance-s/1862.htm (http://www.bimmerbrakes.com/Performance-s/1862.htm)
$250 for Long Tube headers - Super Sprint Replicas
You're a fucking joke.
(http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=573681&stc=1&d=1410822429)
I've had no issues with my e46 so far, but I paid extra for a really clean low mileage example.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on September 20, 2014, 05:23:03 PM
I've had no issues with my e46 so far, but I paid extra for a really clean low mileage example.
Nah dude, your parents bought it for you and it's super unreliable.
(says a dude who owns a fucking VW)
I think we've finally found the other end of Char's psychotic nature.
It was sporty in a VW that ran over Char's dog. I think I figured it out :lol:
Not that I disagree with what Char is saying at all though. I agree selling the Z for another Accord is stupid. But I don't care enough to put that kind of effort into it.
I think he needs to decide if he wants a DD or a project car, because it they shouldn't be combined.
FWD for the loss man.
No way a TSX will be close.in fun to a 330i.
I'm with Char on this. They are cheap. Even my M3 is reasonable.
Or stay with the 350Z and forget this nonsense. Life's too short.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 20, 2014, 05:59:16 PM
FWD for the loss man.
No way a TSX will be close.in fun to a 330i.
I'm with Char on this. They are cheap. Even my M3 is reasonable.
Or stay with the 350Z and forget this nonsense. Life's too short.
E46 M3s aren't a good value and parts are at 2x as expensive as normal BMW parts.
BMW's aren't cheap to maintain by any streach of the imiganation, and Sporty you bench race too much. You say all this shit about the EP3 but
haven't driven one. The K20 is right, and the suspension is a great blend of comfort and handling. And it beats the brakes off the Accord Coupe whilst having better economy, about the same amount of room and more practicality.
And on the street, I'm not convinced a 330i is more fun than a TSX.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 20, 2014, 04:27:43 PM
EP3's motor is tapped out on power, and its suspension is absolute garbage. Real Time Racing successfully lobbied to the SCCA to essentially rebuild its RSX's suspension from scratch. Out of the box and stock it's OK but that's not my flow.
Accord 2.4 is severely detuned and uncorks quickly with cheap parts (mainly from the TSX). Suspension is also much better. Only weighs about 300 or so lbs more as well which is a good amount but nothing insurmountable. In any case I think the TSX is a better fit... its generally better/cheaper to buy the car with the upgrades rather than to do them yourself, and nobody does upgrades better than OEMs.
The suspension of the Accord is really squishy, and the steering isn't as sharp. But then again, it's
designed to be a family car and not a sport oriented compact.
If you want another damn Accord, then buy one. But let's not try and rationalize and say Accords > All.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on September 20, 2014, 06:08:11 PM
E46 M3s aren't a good value and parts are at 2x as expensive as normal BMW parts.
I am not recommending an M3 here just the 330i.
Just mentioning that even the M3 isn't that crazy to maintain (for the fun you get).
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 20, 2014, 06:10:09 PM
I am not recommending an M3 here just the 330i.
Just mentioning that even the M3 isn't that crazy to maintain (for the fun you get).
You're also rich.
The parts for my Yaris cost around 1/2 on average for my friends Mini Cooper (non S!) and are generally more complicated to fix and repair.
:popcorn:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 20, 2014, 05:37:18 PM
I think we've finally found the other end of Char's psychotic nature.
With Sporty, it's personal. He doesn't know anything about me to say "Your parents paid for you car"
He doesn't know my parents.
He doesn't know me.
And even if they did buy me a car (and they didn't) why not?
He doesn't know anything about the cars mentioned in this thread - the E46 M54 is a fantastic motor is is extremely reliable. The 200whp dyno I posted of one was running at 140PSI compression at 245,000 miles - down from 180PSI. Parts and consumables are just cheap - it's RWD, has decent space, gas milage (there is NO penalty for having the 3.0 over the 2.5) and still looks great.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 20, 2014, 06:12:45 PM
You're also rich.
The parts for my Yaris cost around 1/2 on average for my friends Mini Cooper (non S!) and are generally more complicated to fix and repair.
True, but he isn't wrong - even the E46 M3 is not super expensive to maintain. The consumables do cost more than a Non M3, but there isn't anything crazy that needs to done to keep the car a reliable daily driver. My water pump, including parts in labor was $800, the same job would have cost me under $100 on an E46, and I could have done the labor myself.
Quote from: Char on September 20, 2014, 06:14:16 PM
:popcorn:
With Sporty, it's personal. He doesn't know anything about me to say "Your parents paid for you car"
He doesn't know my parents.
He doesn't know me.
And even if they did buy me a car (and they didn't) why not?
He doesn't know anything about the cars mentioned in this thread - the E46 M54 is a fantastic motor is is extremely reliable. The 200whp dyno I posted of one was running at 140PSI compression at 245,000 miles - down from 180PSI. Parts and consumables are just cheap - it's RWD, has decent space, gas milage (there is NO penalty for having the 3.0 over the 2.5) and still looks great.
Not sayin you're necessarily wrong, just a little unhinged about the whole thing.
I got a rather large speeding ticket on my Accent a few months ago. In Virginia$. I should probably trade it for something less sporty.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on September 20, 2014, 07:17:51 PM
I got a rather large speeding ticket on my Accent a few months ago. In Virginia$. I should probably trade it for something less sporty.
Van
Yo where are your youtube videos?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on September 20, 2014, 07:17:51 PM
I got a rather large speeding ticket on my Accent a few months ago. In Virginia$. I should probably trade it for something less sporty.
You're a fucking cop magnet.
Quote from: 68_427 on September 20, 2014, 07:31:26 PM
Van
Yo where are your youtube videos?
Yes, I need Van back. It would be so useful right now with all my work.
I don't even know about my youtubes.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on September 20, 2014, 07:46:31 PM
Yes, I need Van back. It would be so useful right now with all my work.
I don't even know about my youtubes.
Those video were so good doe
Lol.
Good workout at the gym? Check.
Getting times down on Forza with the wheel? Check.
Getting stuff done for my business? Check.
Nice nite out with wifey dining in Charlotte's finest restaurants? Check.
Coming home, opening up my laptop and seeing Char completely unhinge from a throwaway comment? Fucking priceless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CPlF-IEkXQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CPlF-IEkXQ#)
When your nuts drop and you get the stones to divulge all the details about yourself you judge everyone else on, maybe I can begin to consider to treat you with a modicum of respect. Till then get used to being a joke here
Quest
"Mommy theyre being mean to me on CarSPIN!!!! Can I have your card to buy some parts for my car?"
Get a used ATS for the ultimate irony.
For what GM is giving them away for that might be a legit option.
LOLS I had to look at silly troll graphs to see what I missed. LOLOLOLOLOL
These guys already figured it out for ya
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=120340 (http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=120340)
Over just five years
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 20, 2014, 08:31:15 PM
For what GM is giving them away for that might be a legit option.
It may be wrong for Cadillac but right for you!
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 20, 2014, 08:34:46 PM
LOLS I had to look at silly troll graphs to see what I missed. LOLOLOLOLOL
These guys already figured it out for ya
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=120340 (http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=120340)
Over just five years
Lol @ almost 3,000 a year in maintenance and repairs for an E90 328i. that is insane and totally false unless you are an idiot and go to the dealer for everything. Even so it's out of whack.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 20, 2014, 08:37:33 PM
Lol @ almost 3,000 a year in maintenance and repairs for an E90 328i. that is insane and totally false unless you are an idiot and go to the dealer for everything. Even so it's out of whack.
No idea how they came up to those numbers.
True Delta is a Char approved source and according to that the 3 will def have more problems than the TSX. $3K a year is absurd but even if the repairs are cheap, they are still issues that will negatively affect the ownership experience and cost me time and money to repair. No disrespect to MCM (I have no respect for Char) but anecdotes from a psychopath and the president of a BMW club aren't exactly on the level of the hundreds of surveys and buyers guides from less biased sources
Plus the 330i only gets marginally better gas mileage than the Z, which is a factor. TSX still uses premium but is nearly 50% more fuel efficient. Don't get me wrong... E46 is an excellent car and was on my original list. I do want to own a BMW one day, most likely as a project car. But it's not a fit for what I need right now.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 20, 2014, 09:52:28 PM
True Delta is a Char approved source and according to that the 3 will def have more problems than the TSX. $3K a year is absurd but even if the repairs are cheap, they are still issues that will negatively affect the ownership experience and cost me time and money to repair. No disrespect to MCM (I have no respect for Char) but anecdotes from a psychopath and the president of a BMW club aren't exactly on the level of the hundreds of surveys and buyers guides from less biased sources
Plus the 330i only gets marginally better gas mileage than the Z, which is a factor. TSX still uses premium but is nearly 50% more fuel efficient. Don't get me wrong... E46 is an excellent car and was on my original list. I do want to own a BMW one day, most likely as a project car. But it's not a fit for what I need right now.
TSXs are sweet and it would make a good daily driver, but I wouldn't give up a 350Z for one.
I made the comment about a tsx being 90% as fun as a 325.
I'd think most would agree with that, even a realistic bmw fan. I'm sure it wouldnt fare as well against a 330 or worse a ZHP.
I love bmw's, would buy one anyday over a honda. I'm still realistic though, and anyone that looks at it from a non subjective point of view would never try to compare the two from a reliability and maintenance standpoint.
I bet most bmw guys spend more getting rid of the 50mph shimmy than someone would spend over 5 years of owning a used tsx.
You're an idiot and everyone here can see it. You know there is a disconnect from reality when the majority of people agree with me. You're complaining about ownership cost but own a VW a 350z and want to mod a 10yo hatch.
Drive your warmed over Accord and shit VW and leave the real cars to the enthusiast. Bitch.
Quote from: Raza on September 20, 2014, 10:01:40 PM
TSXs are sweet and it would make a good daily driver, but I wouldn't give up a 350Z for one.
He's just interested in putting 215whp and 150tq to the front wheels and collecting more tickets.
Quote from: Raza on September 20, 2014, 10:01:40 PM
TSXs are sweet and it would make a good daily driver, but I wouldn't give up a 350Z for one.
Which of the two would you say is the better daily driver, and what is the relevance of your wants
And I thought u hated the 350Z lmao.
Quote from: Char on September 20, 2014, 10:15:49 PM
You're an idiot and everyone here can see it. You know there is a disconnect from reality when the majority of people agree with me. You're complaining about ownership cost but own a VW a 350z and want to mod a 10yo hatch.
Drive your warmed over Accord and shit VW and leave the real cars to the enthusiast. Bitch.
The majority of people who agree with you are generally also kids w/a similar lack of context.
And the VW has been dead reliable. Fan issue was from a fender bender my wife had, I found out. Otherwise no issues. Can u say the same about all the BMWs u claim to have owned?
And yea I will drive a warmed over Accord and shit VW while u have aneurisms over what some random internet poster drives. I will bet your edit was to throw in the "bitch" at the end to try and make up for how idiotic and emotionally invested u are.
All those BMWs and u post like a dude who has never got laid. So full of anger over meaningless shit. It's sad
Quote from: Raza on September 20, 2014, 10:01:40 PM
TSXs are sweet and it would make a good daily driver, but I wouldn't give up a 350Z for one.
And you're on record not even liking the Z.
Sporty I can't imagine the savings paying off. It'll be marginal. Your Z you know you may get a crappy TSX anyway.
How about a gti, 1.8t's are pretty cheap. Much more reliable than the 3 series, I know alot of bmw guys that have switched over to these.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 20, 2014, 10:36:10 PM
How about a gti, 1.8t's are pretty cheap. Much more reliable than the 3 series, I know alot of bmw guys that have switched over to these.
I doubt that.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 20, 2014, 10:36:10 PM
How about a gti, 1.8t's are pretty cheap. Much more reliable than the 3 series, I know alot of bmw guys that have switched over to these.
Lol
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 20, 2014, 10:29:00 PM
And you're on record not even liking the Z.
Sporty I can't imagine the savings paying off. It'll be marginal. Your Z you know you may get a crappy TSX anyway.
$1330 a year based on current gas prices.
Honestly, if you're not going to mod the Z, I'd dump it for the TSX. I'd much rather have a cheaper car that I can mod on my own rather than a more expensive car I'd have to keep stock.
Quote from: Char on September 20, 2014, 10:42:22 PM
I doubt that.
The last one to jump ship was the pres of the local bmw club. I'm sure your bmw is cool but when you get a few more miles under your belt and some experience pushing a car to its limits, you will eventually upgrade to the big boy club.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 20, 2014, 10:23:59 PM
Which of the two would you say is the better daily driver, and what is the relevance of your wants
And I thought u hated the 350Z lmao.
I originally typed "(or more relevant to me, my Z4)", but took it out. You seem to really like the Z, so it's not really relevant whether I do or not. I'm putting myself in your shoes.
As far as daily driving, the 350Z is fast, comfortable, and, as I recall, reasonable on gas. The TSX is significantly slower, but better on gas, and significantly more practical. FWD would be great for me, since I live in a place that actually gets snow, but you should be fine the two days a year it snows down there in whatever. The TSX fits the archetype of a daily driver better than the 350Z for sure, but so far that hasn't seemed to bother you significantly.
If I'm being me instead of you, I'd have to drive the two again, but I would imagine the TSX feels sharper day to day and would be more fun on a commute. Usable power, alert handling, lower limits, higher revving, harder work engine (harder work for the driver). I would love to have one. First gen TSX is one of the best looking sedans of the last decade or so (but then again, the Z is one of the best looking GT cars of the last decade itself). 350Z's higher limits and heavy feel mean it takes a lot more extra-legal activity to extract the fun out of it.
I mean, if you daily drive to work on an autocross course, the Z is the clear choice. You'll likely lose an enthusiast card here, but the TSX makes perfect sense and will still be fun to drive (if not more than the Z at legalish speeds). But that's me, not you, and you really like the Z. Logically, I should be trading my Z4 for a GTI or TSX or the like, but I can't bring myself to do it because I love it so much. Perhaps you don't love your Z the way I do my Z4, but it's still an analogous situation, it seems.
I'm rambling a bit, since I'm exhausted, but I think that mostly made sense.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 20, 2014, 10:29:00 PM
And you're on record not even liking the Z.
Sporty I can't imagine the savings paying off. It'll be marginal. Your Z you know you may get a crappy TSX anyway.
See my response to Sporty.
I like our TSX plenty, and it's great for nipping around town, but I think the G is a lot more fun when you want to push it. I guess that's what you want out of a car, though?
Wouldn't a souped up TSX attract tickets as well?
Quote from: Laconian on September 21, 2014, 12:08:44 AM
I like our TSX plenty, and it's great for nipping around town, but I think the G is a lot more fun when you want to push it. I guess that's what you want out of a car, though?
Wouldn't a souped up TSX attract tickets as well?
The G is a good suggestion. It's reasonably practical, but fun when you want it to be.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 20, 2014, 10:56:01 PM
The last one to jump ship was the pres of the local bmw club. I'm sure your bmw is cool but when you get a few more miles under your belt and some experience pushing a car to its limits, you will eventually upgrade to the big boy club.
In the history of things that have never happened, this is number one. You're almost as clueless as he is, where are you guys crawling from?
First it was his nonsensical comments about Non Revup headers - he was clearly wrong, but equal parts stubborn and stupid - a dangerous combination. Next, it's the "VW's are reliable" tirade, which no data you've been able to come up with even remotely confirms that it's remotely true. After that, it's the "Car is getting me speeding tickets, so I have to sell it" shtick that you are trying to make us believe. No, it isn't you being incompetent and unable to obey traffic laws, it's purely the fault of the Z. And finally you want me, and everyone else reading this thread (some of which owned BMWs, myself included) tp believe that they are A. Unreliable, B. Difficult/expensive to maintain C. Majority of owners are downgrading to a VW from a BMW.
This thread has gone full blown retard, and the OP has shown no signs letting up and turning the wheel away from the rocks.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 20, 2014, 10:56:01 PM
The last one to jump ship was the pres of the local bmw club. I'm sure your bmw is cool but when you get a few more miles under your belt and some experience pushing a car to its limits, you will eventually upgrade to the big boy club.
What's your experience with BMWs again? Oh right, you have none.
This thread is beta as hell - it's time for me to make a new one lacking estrogen.
Quote from: Raza on September 20, 2014, 11:44:37 PM
I originally typed "(or more relevant to me, my Z4)", but took it out. You seem to really like the Z, so it's not really relevant whether I do or not. I'm putting myself in your shoes.
As far as daily driving, the 350Z is fast, comfortable, and, as I recall, reasonable on gas. The TSX is significantly slower, but better on gas, and significantly more practical. FWD would be great for me, since I live in a place that actually gets snow, but you should be fine the two days a year it snows down there in whatever. The TSX fits the archetype of a daily driver better than the 350Z for sure, but so far that hasn't seemed to bother you significantly.
If I'm being me instead of you, I'd have to drive the two again, but I would imagine the TSX feels sharper day to day and would be more fun on a commute. Usable power, alert handling, lower limits, higher revving, harder work engine (harder work for the driver). I would love to have one. First gen TSX is one of the best looking sedans of the last decade or so (but then again, the Z is one of the best looking GT cars of the last decade itself). 350Z's higher limits and heavy feel mean it takes a lot more extra-legal activity to extract the fun out of it.
I mean, if you daily drive to work on an autocross course, the Z is the clear choice. You'll likely lose an enthusiast card here, but the TSX makes perfect sense and will still be fun to drive (if not more than the Z at legalish speeds). But that's me, not you, and you really like the Z. Logically, I should be trading my Z4 for a GTI or TSX or the like, but I can't bring myself to do it because I love it so much. Perhaps you don't love your Z the way I do my Z4, but it's still an analogous situation, it seems.
I'm rambling a bit, since I'm exhausted, but I think that mostly made sense.
I do like the Z. It's fun and fast. I'm not sure I would call it comfortable though. The road noise in it is appaling and the ride is pretty harsh. It is a bit of a blunt tool, but it's still very responsive- you turn the wheel a quarter inch in my wife's car, you get nothing... you turn the wheel a quarter inch in the Z, you get a response. And that's cool. RWD is very cool, especially with a decent enough LSD, and now I can say I have a lot of experience with that. Z looks sexy as hell too. It's not a bad car at all, but the practical failures of it are eating me up.
Quote from: Char on September 21, 2014, 03:20:25 AM
In the history of things that have never happened, this is number one. You're almost as clueless as he is, where are you guys crawling from?
First it was his nonsensical comments about Non Revup headers - he was clearly wrong, but equal parts stubborn and stupid - a dangerous combination. Next, it's the "VW's are reliable" tirade, which no data you've been able to come up with even remotely confirms that it's remotely true. After that, it's the "Car is getting me speeding tickets, so I have to sell it" shtick that you are trying to make us believe. No, it isn't you being incompetent and unable to obey traffic laws, it's purely the fault of the Z. And finally you want me, and everyone else reading this thread (some of which owned BMWs, myself included) tp believe that they are A. Unreliable, B. Difficult/expensive to maintain C. Majority of owners are downgrading to a VW from a BMW.
This thread has gone full blown retard, and the OP has shown no signs letting up and turning the wheel away from the rocks.
VWs are reliable enough, and way more reliable than they used to be. And I'm not sure why data counts against VWs but not BMWs- TrueDelta has the 3er at the same or more trips than the Jetta for most of the last 15 years (including the god awful MK4 era). You haven't had any problems with your BMW that you will acknowledge to be problems ("I LIKE CHANGING WATER PUMPS AND WINDOW REGULATORS!!!!!").... only problem I've had with the Rabbit was a radiator fan damaged in a crash. So by your twisted logic and accepted data, if BMWs are reliable then so are VWs.
Quote from: Char on September 21, 2014, 03:35:55 AM
What's your experience with BMWs again? Oh right, you have none.
This thread is beta as hell - it's time for me to make a new one lacking estrogen.
The hypocrisy here is about as delicious as the dinner I had last night. You don't have any experience with VWs that doesn't involve anything but frantic Google searches and keyboard mashing, and yet you have no problem bashing people that drive them and making broad sweeping statements about how they drive and what they are like to own, despite data showing tthat they are, even at their worst, as or MORE reliable than your "reliable" BMWs.
And if this place makes you so angry (and let's not pretend like you aren't- your posts over the last couple of pages are mos def from the heart), why do you continue to post here? Why not stay on Bimmerpost where you can insulate yourself from the real world even further and pretend like driving a BMW doesn't make you an angry, judgemental, miserable little prick?
MmmmMmmmm
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4079/4757111482_df1b709876_b.jpg)
Quote from: Char on September 20, 2014, 10:15:49 PM
You know there is a disconnect from reality when the majority of people agree with me.
:lol: :clap:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2014, 06:46:26 AM
I do like the Z. It's fun and fast. I'm not sure I would call it comfortable though. The road noise in it is appaling and the ride is pretty harsh. It is a bit of a blunt tool, but it's still very responsive- you turn the wheel a quarter inch in my wife's car, you get nothing... you turn the wheel a quarter inch in the Z, you get a response. And that's cool. RWD is very cool, especially with a decent enough LSD, and now I can say I have a lot of experience with that. Z looks sexy as hell too. It's not a bad car at all, but the practical failures of it are eating me up.
Why not pick up something like a used 1st gen Mazda3 hatch (they're cheap) or even a Civic Si (spaceship gen) to daily drive and hang on to the Z?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 20, 2014, 10:56:01 PM
The last one to jump ship was the pres of the local bmw club. I'm sure your bmw is cool but when you get a few more miles under your belt and some experience pushing a car to its limits, you will eventually upgrade to the big boy club.
A VW GTI is the big boy club now?
We jump to Porsches. But if downgrading, yeah a VW GTI is ok!
Quote from: thecarnut on September 21, 2014, 06:51:57 AM
MmmmMmmmm
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4079/4757111482_df1b709876_b.jpg)
That looks 10X more impractical than his 350Z.............. :tounge:
It took you 3 weeks or more just to bleed the Z's brakes and you have said that you and your wife plan to start a family in a couple years. You won't be modifying an Accord or TSX, or anything else for that matter. If you feel you must ditch the Z, then replace it with something that won't need mods to be fun.
Quote from: thecarnut on September 21, 2014, 06:51:57 AM
MmmmMmmmm
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4079/4757111482_df1b709876_b.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DYBaUdoAL.jpg)
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 21, 2014, 08:11:32 AM
A VW GTI is the big boy club now?
We jump to Porsches. But if downgrading, yeah a VW GTI is ok!
Like I said before, I've never seen it. A few E46 guys move down to a MK5 or so GTI, but the majority will grab a newer BMW or like luxury car. Those with higher end cars will make the final jump to a Porsche.
The funny part is I'm not even a huge BMW fan, it just happens to be what I've owned. I'm actually a bigger Porsche and Nissan fan.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 21, 2014, 09:02:51 AM
It took you 3 weeks or more just to bleed the Z's brakes and you have said that you and your wife plan to start a family in a couple years. You won't be modifying an Accord or TSX, or anything else for that matter. If you feel you must ditch the Z, then replace it with something that won't need mods to be fun.
Took me about an hour to do my radio. Two hours to change my headlights. Three hours to do my rear brake pads (seized bolts). Takes me more time to haul shit down from my 3rd floor apartment than to do an oil change on both cars. So if the implication here is that I don't have the time or money for mods, that's wrong. Ticky tacky shit like an intake or w/e is no big deal and is the kind of stuff I'd be looking to do.
And modding is part of the fun for me.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 21, 2014, 09:02:51 AM
It took you 3 weeks or more just to bleed the Z's brakes and you have said that you and your wife plan to start a family in a couple years. You won't be modifying an Accord or TSX, or anything else for that matter. If you feel you must ditch the Z, then replace it with something that won't need mods to be fun.
Not even that, he paid someone for work, which he eventually did himself. He's going to buy a beat to hell rattled out TSX/Accord and sit on mods and repairs. Promise.
For the record, mods rarely make sense - ask me how much the insurance gave me for all my bolt ons and suspension parts - including a Super Sprint exhaust, and OZ superleggeras. Next to nothing.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2014, 06:46:26 AM
I do like the Z. It's fun and fast. I'm not sure I would call it comfortable though. The road noise in it is appaling and the ride is pretty harsh. It is a bit of a blunt tool, but it's still very responsive- you turn the wheel a quarter inch in my wife's car, you get nothing... you turn the wheel a quarter inch in the Z, you get a response. And that's cool. RWD is very cool, especially with a decent enough LSD, and now I can say I have a lot of experience with that. Z looks sexy as hell too. It's not a bad car at all, but the practical failures of it are eating me up.
VWs are reliable enough, and way more reliable than they used to be. And I'm not sure why data counts against VWs but not BMWs- TrueDelta has the 3er at the same or more trips than the Jetta for most of the last 15 years (including the god awful MK4 era). You haven't had any problems with your BMW that you will acknowledge to be problems ("I LIKE CHANGING WATER PUMPS AND WINDOW REGULATORS!!!!!").... only problem I've had with the Rabbit was a radiator fan damaged in a crash. So by your twisted logic and accepted data, if BMWs are reliable then so are VWs.
The hypocrisy here is about as delicious as the dinner I had last night. You don't have any experience with VWs that doesn't involve anything but frantic Google searches and keyboard mashing, and yet you have no problem bashing people that drive them and making broad sweeping statements about how they drive and what they are like to own, despite data showing tthat they are, even at their worst, as or MORE reliable than your "reliable" BMWs.
And if this place makes you so angry (and let's not pretend like you aren't- your posts over the last couple of pages are mos def from the heart), why do you continue to post here? Why not stay on Bimmerpost where you can insulate yourself from the real world even further and pretend like driving a BMW doesn't make you an angry, judgemental, miserable little prick?
All of this is built on the assumption I have no experience with VAG/Honda And BMW products. With the exception of vanos tools, so something to reset the service indicator, I don't recall any special BMW tools required. BMW's do have their vices though - True delta confirms the majority of problems for the 3 series revolves around the cooling system, and oil leaks. Check for yourself.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2014, 09:27:07 AM
Took me about an hour to do my radio. Two hours to change my headlights. Three hours to do my rear brake pads (seized bolts). Takes me more time to haul shit down from my 3rd floor apartment than to do an oil change on both cars. So if the implication here is that I don't have the time or money for mods, that's wrong. Ticky tacky shit like an intake or w/e is no big deal and is the kind of stuff I'd be looking to do.
And modding is part of the fun for me.
Ask anybody on here with kids, myself included, about how much time you have for even an oil change. I gave up years ago. When the kids are older, working on cars WITH my kids will definitely happen, but until then, I don't even bother trying.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 21, 2014, 10:23:07 AM
Ask anybody on here with kids, myself included, about how much time you have for even an oil change. I gave up years ago. When the kids are older, working on cars WITH my kids will definitely happen, but until then, I don't even bother trying.
+1
I DEFINITELY think a decent sized 4door is good for anyone expecting/ trying to have kids...
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 21, 2014, 08:11:32 AM
A VW GTI is the big boy club now?
We jump to Porsches. But if downgrading, yeah a VW GTI is ok!
You're too smart to have engaged in that.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 21, 2014, 08:11:32 AM
A VW GTI is the big boy club now?
We jump to Porsches. But if downgrading, yeah a VW GTI is ok!
You don't have a clue about my past experiences. Currently I do not own a bmw, the last one had major engine failure at 60k. I'm saving my money and hoping to get into something on the higher end. Lots of nice vw's out there, I hope to pull the trigger soon. Would look nice in my garage with the other exotics.
"We upgrade to Porsches"
Like I said, VW's.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 21, 2014, 10:23:07 AM
Ask anybody on here with kids, myself included, about how much time you have for even an oil change. I gave up years ago. When the kids are older, working on cars WITH my kids will definitely happen, but until then, I don't even bother trying.
That's only true if you spend time with your kids trying to be a good parent. Real men drink beer in their garages and let the women babysit.
You guys are literally getting worked up over me, the biggest troll on the board. You're not as clever as you believe - I'm not playing your game, you're playing mine. You think you're 'triggering' my anger or goading me into an argument by mentioning VW, without realizing my responses are actually antagonizing you: Every conversation I twist in the direction I want it to go, I do and say what I want, and you willingly walk into it.
Look how bent out of shape Sporty gets when I say VW's are pieces of shit, amd are typically driven by clue as drivers.
Not bent out of shape at all. I'd say it's 90% amusement, 10% mild annoyance at your continued hypocrisy and blatant disregard for facts/objectivity. True Delta is game for bashing VW, but when those VWs turn out to be as reliable as the BMWs you are recommending the tough talk stops. I suppose if you want the conversation to go on a trajectory that makes you look like an idiot pretty much every time you post then you are doing a pretty good job.
Enough of the rice. Carbs are bad. Drive an Avocado.
http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/4417569700.html (http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/4417569700.html)
I upgraded from a BMW to an El Camino. My dad upgraded from a BMW to an old VW Bug. Although that's basically a Porsche.
[quote author=12,000 RPM link=topic=29492.msg2051482#msg2051482 date=1411333334denined tbent out of shape at all. I'd say it's 90% amusement, 10% mild annoyance at your continued hypocrisy and blatant disregard for facts/objectivity. True Delta is game for bashing VW, but when those VWs turn out to be as reliable as the BMWs you are recommending the tough talk stops. I suppose if you want the conversation to go on a trajectory that makes you look like an idiot pretty much every time you post then you are doing a pretty good job.
[/quote]
I'm an idiot, says the guy who didn't know about VW carbon build up issues and denied the existence of the problem. The same guy who claimed that VW's were reliable but disregarded the same true delta report which said VW's are shit boxes. I'm an idiot, but you tried to argue the effectiveness of a specific aftermarket part on a car you own, even going as far to post a link you to a thread you didn't even read. If you had, you would have avoided the humiliation of people in the thread agreeing with what I told you many post before. I'm an idiot, but you paid someone to do a job, and then when they did it wrong, your self - because you were too much of an idiot and a coward to make them do it right.
Hey lil fella, slow your role. I didn't say you were an idiot... I just said you seem to think, speak and act like one. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. You're so angry you can't even use the quote function properly.... how do you mess that up??? :lol:
And the brakes are fine now. The guy said they'd be mushy to start... and now they are firm. So there was no problem besides me being impatient. I have done everything from engine swaps to suspension rebuilds to audio installs etc. I did a lot of fabrication to put my motorcycle back together. I can turn a wrench. Brake bleeding is literally probably the only thing I haven't done on a car, and it wasn't just the flush... it was spending a weekend in the hot NC sun swapping out brake parts. Fuck that, not spending my day off slaving away is worth it to me. So yet again u jump to conclusions and have no idea what ur talking about.
O wait- u MEANT to do that, right? ;)
And lol @ Chartard having the gall to call anybody else a coward. Your whole posting schtick defines cowardice.
LOL "Chartard"
This is what I loved the most though:
QuoteI'm not playing your game, you're playing mine.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2014, 04:24:15 PM
Hey lil fella, slow your role. I didn't say you were an idiot... I just said you seem to think, speak and act like one. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. You're so angry you can't even use the quote function properly.... how do you mess that up??? :lol:
And the brakes are fine now. The guy said they'd be mushy to start... and now they are firm. So there was no problem besides me being impatient. I have done everything from engine swaps to suspension rebuilds to audio installs etc. I did a lot of fabrication to put my motorcycle back together. I can turn a wrench. Brake bleeding is literally probably the only thing I haven't done on a car, and it wasn't just the flush... it was spending a weekend in the hot NC sun swapping out brake parts. Fuck that, not spending my day off slaving away is worth it to me. So yet again u jump to conclusions and have no idea what ur talking about.
O wait- u MEANT to do that, right? ;)
On a phone, so grammar suffers, as does the ability to properly quote. And you implied I was an idiot, and in a previously unrelated thread, out right stated. I could literally go on about the bullshit you say in this thread - on this forum. The difference between you and me is that I know the score.
Quote from: Char on September 21, 2014, 05:13:20 PM
On a phone, so grammar suffers, as does the ability to properly quote. And you implied I was an idiot, and in a previously unrelated thread, out right stated. I could literally go on about the bullshit you say in this thread - on this forum. The difference between you and me is that I know the score.
The score? Whats the game? What's the prize?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2014, 05:47:58 PM
The score? Whats the game? What's the prize?
Biggest e-penis.
Char prints off screenshots of his internet victories to hang on his mom's fridge.
Quote from: Char on September 21, 2014, 05:13:20 PM
On a phone, so grammar suffers, as does the ability to properly quote. And you implied I was an idiot, and in a previously unrelated thread, out right stated. I could literally go on about the bullshit you say in this thread - on this forum. The difference between you and me is that I know the score.
(http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/nissan/quest/1996/oem/1996_nissan_quest_passenger-minivan_xe_fq_oem_1_500.jpg)
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on September 21, 2014, 05:55:17 PM
Char prints off screenshots of his internet victories to hang on his mom's fridge.
Actually, I ran out of room and moved to posting them on my car
(http://www.fukarf.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/cover-your-boss-car-in-post-it-notes.jpg)
lol :lol:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 21, 2014, 12:43:16 PM
You don't have a clue about my past experiences. Currently I do not own a bmw, the last one had major engine failure at 60k. I'm saving my money and hoping to get into something on the higher end. Lots of nice vw's out there, I hope to pull the trigger soon. Would look nice in my garage with the other exotics.
"We upgrade to Porsches"
Like I said, VW's.
Hey congrats on the garage whatever is in there.
Still, a GTI is no upgrade from a BMW in the vast majority of cases which was my point. It's also most emphatically not an exotic.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 21, 2014, 06:53:53 PM
Hey congrats on the garage whatever is in there.
Still, a GTI is no upgrade from a BMW in the vast majority of cases which was my point. It's also most emphatically not an exotic.
:facepalm:
Edit: Ohh, I see. I accidentally quoted your post instead of chars with one of my previous replies.
Sad, another casualty of war.
This thread is a shit show.
Sporty, are you any closer to deciding what you're going to do?
He knows he wants to
(http://image.importtuner.com/f/events/impp_1208_southrnfresh_welcome_to_atlanta/38820151/impp-1208-11-o%2Bsouthrnfresh-welcome-to-atlanta%2Bhonda-accord-wagon.jpg)
Quote from: dazzleman on September 21, 2014, 07:40:34 PM
This thread is a shit show.
Sporty, are you any closer to deciding what you're going to do?
Yea I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get the TSX.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2014, 07:52:15 PM
Yea I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get the TSX.
Cool, I think it will have alot to offer right out of the box.
Quote from: 68_427 on September 21, 2014, 07:41:51 PM
He knows he wants to
(http://image.importtuner.com/f/events/impp_1208_southrnfresh_welcome_to_atlanta/38820151/impp-1208-11-o%2Bsouthrnfresh-welcome-to-atlanta%2Bhonda-accord-wagon.jpg)
perfect except for the "VTEC" advertisement
-sidelamps everywhere, Check
-wheels that would attract thieves from all over the state, Check
-roofrack, Check
-luggage space in the back (pack only pillows, anything else would sag and rub on the tires), Check
-room for further mods (FART CANNON!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!), Check
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 21, 2014, 07:58:53 PM
perfect except for the "VTEC" advertisement
-sidelamps everywhere, Check
-wheels that would attract thieves from all over the state, Check
-roofrack, Check
-luggage space in the back (pack only pillows, anything else would sag and rub on the tires), Check
-room for further mods (FART CANNON!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!), Check
:facepalm:
If I did the Accord wagon I would go the CE1 route.
Too many spoilers for me....
[imghttp://i49.tinypic.com/2a0sio.jpg[/img]
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 21, 2014, 07:13:36 PM
:facepalm:
Edit: Ohh, I see. I accidentally quoted your post instead of chars with one of my previous replies.
Sad, another casualty of war.
Oh....
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/54515059.jpg)
I used to be a lot better at this back in the car and driver days.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 21, 2014, 09:25:46 PM
I used to be a lot better at this back in the car and driver days.
It's really hard.
Anything new on this front, sporty?
No, too busy
Realistically, probably not gonna happen till next year. Got a 5 figure check coming for some freelance stuff then, so I will probably buy the TSX then and sell the Z in the height of the summer.
So tempted. 30 MPG on regular all day. He keeps dropping the price, he's getting desperate.
(http://images.craigslist.org/00m0m_5lUsk0W2Zes_600x450.jpg)
Is there something wrong with the wheels? They look like they are the wrong size.
A guy that I used to work with had a Integra GSR 4 door, nice car but probably hard to find.
Looks like it was lowered, but agree, rear especially looks "off"...
Those are stock wheels. Well stock GSR wheels. It is lowered, that will have to be addressed. That is a GS so no VTEC, no premium fuel. Nice little cheap runaround, just have to see what shape it's in. Looks good though
I bet base mini's are getting pretty cheap, pretty poor in the usability spectrum though.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 29, 2014, 11:57:50 AM
I bet base mini's are getting pretty cheap, pretty poor in the usability spectrum though.
Reliability too. This is only 200lbs heavier, but is faster etc etc. Personally I never understood the value proposition of a Mini... they are fun to drive but pretty expensive and not great to own.
There isn't a value proposition to the mini.
However,
In S form it is a stylish alternative to other "premium" hatches, such as the GTI. While being a pretty fun performer.
Otherwise it doesn't have too much going for it.
two more seats than a Miata. :huh: Almost as fun? :huh:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 29, 2014, 12:12:05 PM
There isn't a value proposition to the mini.
However,
In S form it is a stylish alternative to other "premium" hatches, such as the GTI. While being a pretty fun performer.
Otherwise it doesn't have too much going for it.
My cousin has a late 00's Cooper S. What a riot that car is!
And given that its a hatch, its at least a little practical.
Most of my friends are 5' 9" or taller... I need a "realish" back seat. I couldn't sit behind myself in a Mini
Quote from: Submariner on September 29, 2014, 12:53:16 PM
My cousin has a late 00's Cooper S. What a riot that car is!
And given that its a hatch, its at least a little practical.
I'd love a S or JCW, but once the power is gone I have a hard time dealing with the limited space(both passenger and cargo).
To me, the Mini only works when It has some oomph to offset it's small size(and the compromises of that).
My early comment about the mini "not having anything going for it" was mostly in regards to a base model. I could be wrong, but since the S is far from "fast" I can't imagine the base being worth the lack of usability.
An original Mini with a Hayabusa engine swap would be sick.
I saw an S a while back loaded with people absolutely SHREDDING the FDR in Manhattan
I was on my MOTORCYCLE like "o nah I aint fuckin with him"
The Ss look like fun but I feel like a funnish Honda will be 90% as enjoyable for 10% of the headaches. Id rather a 20 yr old Honda than a 2 yr old Mini for actual ownership experience, they are awful in that regard.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 29, 2014, 01:36:26 PM
I saw an S a while back loaded with people absolutely SHREDDING the FDR in Manhattan
I was on my MOTORCYCLE like "o nah I aint fuckin with him"
The Ss look like fun but I feel like a funnish Honda will be 90% as enjoyable for 10% of the headaches. Id rather a 20 yr old Honda than a 2 yr old Mini for actual ownership experience, they are awful in that regard.
:facepalm: Honda has never built anything anywhere near as fun as a Mini Cooper S.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 29, 2014, 01:40:53 PM
:facepalm: Honda has never built anything anywhere near as fun as a Mini Cooper S.
(http://www.japanesesportcars.com/photos/d/132576-2/1995-honda-prelude-special-edition-1.jpg)
(http://www.integradc2.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/dc2-honda-integra-type-r-21.jpg)
(http://srv2.betterparts.org/images/honda-nsx-09.jpg)
1st 2 have been called the best handling FWD cars in the world
2nd made Ferrari change its approach
C&D said this about the OG Cooper S
QuoteWe expected the light, airy reflexes of, say, a Civic Si. The Cooper S perpetually feels porkier than its 2767 pounds suggest. After 10 minutes of driving, you'll forget you're in a small car. That's fine, but at urban speeds the heft begins to translate as a kind of slow-wittedness, notably in traffic.
U musta forgot, I'll forgive u this time.
Aside from the NSX, I've driven both of those cars and a 2007 Cooper S and they aren't nearly as nimble and fun as the Mini.
Well we will have to agree to disagree but some very knowledgeable/experienced folks also disagree with you
Quote from: SVT666 on September 29, 2014, 02:11:34 PM
Aside from the NSX, I've driven both of those cars and a 2007 Cooper S and they aren't nearly as nimble and fun as the Mini.
:facepalm: :facepalm:
Eh, Honda has made tons of cars in the same fun category as the Mini S. I think beyond that, it's personal taste. Add the S2000 to the above, and a few Civic Sis.
Quote from: Rupert on September 29, 2014, 04:23:42 PM
Eh, Honda has made tons of cars in the same fun category as the Mini S. I think beyond that, it's personal taste. Add the S2000 to the above, and a few Civic Sis.
I forgot about the S2000. My buddy has a 2005 Civic SiR and it's fun, but even he preferred my SVT Focus. The SVT Focus is the only car I have driven that came close to the Mini Cooper S in terms of nimbleness and fun.
The 02-05 Civic is the worst of the breed. That's not a true point of reference. The 97-01 Integra Type R is up there with the likes of the E30 M3 as far as unfiltered well sorted street legal driving engagement goes.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 27, 2014, 10:22:44 PM
No, too busy
Realistically, probably not gonna happen till next year. Got a 5 figure check coming for some freelance stuff then, so I will probably buy the TSX then and sell the Z in the height of the summer.
But you'll accumulate 10 more speeding tickets by then.... ;)
Or just go to the dealer, trade the z and drive home in a tsx. Shouldn't take more than a weekend to sort that out.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 29, 2014, 01:06:29 PM
Most of my friends are 5' 9" or taller... I need a "realish" back seat. I couldn't sit behind myself in a Mini
A standard MINI, no. But a Clubman, yes.
(http://p1.pichost.me/i/52/1751386.jpg)
Cressida with a 2JZ
Quote from: Madman on September 29, 2014, 08:49:31 PM
A standard MINI, no. But a Clubman, yes.
(http://p1.pichost.me/i/52/1751386.jpg)
Pointless car.
I dunno, it's kind of an interesting idea. More fun than a TSX for sure.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 29, 2014, 11:46:30 AM
Those are stock wheels. Well stock GSR wheels. It is lowered, that will have to be addressed. That is a GS so no VTEC, no premium fuel. Nice little cheap runaround, just have to see what shape it's in. Looks good though
Won't it just get stolen like every other Integra?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 29, 2014, 01:19:44 PM
I'd love a S or JCW, but once the power is gone I have a hard time dealing with the limited space(both passenger and cargo).
To me, the Mini only works when It has some oomph to offset it's small size(and the compromises of that).
My early comment about the mini "not having anything going for it" was mostly in regards to a base model. I could be wrong, but since the S is far from "fast" I can't imagine the base being worth the lack of usability.
HotRodPilot always said the base model was more fun to drive than his S.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on September 29, 2014, 09:12:50 PM
Cressida with a 2JZ
Underrated post.
Re: MINIs
Let that dream go. They are terrible cars to own. I follow a reviewer on Youtube who bought one on a whim. Over the last year he's had a thermostat failure, water pump failure, unrelated overheating, and now his clutch, which costs at least $2K to replace, is slipping. On a ~5 year old car with ~60K miles. Id rather roll the dice on a GTI and throw it on Bilstein PSSs... that's a more reliable choice. MINIs are POSs.
Quote from: Raza on September 30, 2014, 04:57:07 AM
Won't it just get stolen like every other Integra?
I don't think so. This isn't the Northeast. People down here love trucks and people down here have guns. I don't think car theft is an issue here. There was a kid who lived here who had an Integra with "work"... he parked it outside all the time :huh: Plus if they steal it I will have full coverage, who cares.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 29, 2014, 10:37:46 PM
Pointless car.
Not if you want a MINI with a functional back seat and you can't stand the looks of a Countryman. The "Club Door" makes rear seat entry/exit a snap. too.
My wife is rather smitten with the Clubman and, for some odd reason, is particularly taken with the delivery van style doors at the back. I can see the appeal. Fun to drive and it works as a sort of micro station wagon, too.
All that shit goes out the window once the ownership experience comes into play
Styling aside, which is subjective, MINI brings nothing to the table that a Mazda 3 or GTI don't.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 30, 2014, 07:49:08 AM
All that shit goes out the window once the ownership experience comes into play
Styling aside, which is subjective, MINI brings nothing to the table that a Mazda 3 or GTI don't.
Yes, yes it does, styling and an upscale badge that neither the the 3 or GTI can match.
Having driven a 97 prelude and 97 integra gsr (when they were newish), the mini cooper S was much better in the fun dept. They feel like the 20 yr old designs that they are and thinking they would be a reliable daily driver with 20 yr old bushings, vacuum lines and everything else is fairly tale land.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 08:23:20 AM
Yes, yes it does, styling and an upscale badge that neither the the 3 or GTI can match.
Having driven a 97 prelude and 97 integra gsr (when they were newish), the mini cooper S was much better in the fun dept. They feel like the 20 yr old designs that they are and thinking they would be a reliable daily driver with 20 yr old bushings, vacuum lines and everything else is fairly tale land.
Styling is very subjective. The new bloated mini has nothing on the new Mazda3.
I'd also be willing to bet money that a 17 year old Honda is more reliable than an 8-10 year old mini.
Oh, and I bought a23 year old car for a DD.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 08:23:20 AM
Yes, yes it does, styling and an upscale badge that neither the the 3 or GTI can match.
Having driven a 97 prelude and 97 integra gsr (when they were newish), the mini cooper S was much better in the fun dept. They feel like the 20 yr old designs that they are and thinking they would be a reliable daily driver with 20 yr old bushings, vacuum lines and everything else is fairly tale land.
I'd rather have to deal with periodic shit like belts, bushings and vacuum lines than feel like I'm rolling the dice every time I start my car.
And "feeling like a 20 yr old design" is not a bad thing, especially when that 20 yr old design has less weight and a much better suspension than the built to cost shit made today.
Everyone keeps talking about the S as well, why... if I got any it would be the base Cooper which we all agree is garbage. MINIs make MKIV VWs look reliable, lets stop talking about them here.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 30, 2014, 08:43:27 AM
I'd rather have to deal with periodic shit like belts, bushings and vacuum lines than feel like I'm rolling the dice every time I start my car.
And "feeling like a 20 yr old design" is not a bad thing, especially when that 20 yr old design has less weight and a much better suspension than the built to cost shit made today.
Everyone keeps talking about the S as well, why... if I got any it would be the base Cooper which we all agree is garbage. MINIs make MKIV VWs look reliable, lets stop talking about them here.
I had a lot more fun driving a base Cooper than my S, but that was in 2006.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 08:23:20 AM
Yes, yes it does, styling and an upscale badge that neither the the 3 or GTI can match.
Having driven a 97 prelude and 97 integra gsr (when they were newish), the mini cooper S was much better in the fun dept. They feel like the 20 yr old designs that they are and thinking they would be a reliable daily driver with 20 yr old bushings, vacuum lines and everything else is fairly tale land.
The GTI however is light years ahead in being a much more upscale car vs. the Mini.
I would put them on equal footing TBH.
Have you been in a MINI??? The Mark VI GTI blows it away in upscaleness. The GTI is also a better performer, and much more refined in ride and NVH. It's no contest.
I've sat in them at various car shows. Wifey's car is a GTI interior wise. MINI interior design is ugly as hell IMO, and it's cramped too. But as far as fit and finish I'd say it's the same. Can't speak to NVH/ride but the GTI is about a class larger than the MINI so it's no surprise that it rides better.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 30, 2014, 01:13:39 PM
I've sat in them at various car shows. Wifey's car is a GTI interior wise. MINI interior design is ugly as hell IMO, and it's cramped too. But as far as fit and finish I'd say it's the same. Can't speak to NVH/ride but the GTI is about a class larger than the MINI so it's no surprise that it rides better.
No it's not. Painted plastic vs. cast PVC dash + PU foam. Tons of different trim. The design is pretty similar looking, but executed totally different.
My buddy had an 06 GTI, same color as wifey's 07 Rabbit. We were over for dinner/drinks/recreation so I left my mass chromatography devices home. Only difference I remember between the two cars was the torque and suspension tuning.
Do they make a convertible GTI???
They made the Eos but it just got cancelled. People don't care about convertibles anymore, they have smartphones.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 30, 2014, 01:07:59 PM
Have you been in a MINI??? The Mark VI GTI blows it away in upscaleness. The GTI is also a better performer, and much more refined in ride and NVH. It's no contest.
Hace you sat in the new new new MINI? It's at least as good as a GTI quality wise inside.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 30, 2014, 02:09:00 PM
Hace you sat in the new new new MINI? It's at least as good as a GTI quality wise inside.
Not yet. R&T has a comparo of the new MINI and Mark VII GTI in this month's issue however. They said the MINI interior is indeed hugely upgraded and actually quieter than the GTI now (though they said the GTI remains in total a much better car).
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 30, 2014, 02:02:57 PM
People don't care about convertibles anymore, they have smartphones.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL What does that even mean? I mean, it makes sense, but it doesn't.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 30, 2014, 02:09:00 PM
Hace you sat in the new new new MINI? It's at least as good as a GTI quality wise inside.
Yeah. I still would do a E46 323/325/328 over those cars. Cheap to buy and insure - RWD, more standard power and damn reliable.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 08:23:20 AMthinking they would be a reliable daily driver with 20 yr old bushings, vacuum lines and everything else is fairly tale land.
It works for me. How many vacuum lines are in a Prelude anyways?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 30, 2014, 01:26:05 PM
My buddy had an 06 GTI, same color as wifey's 07 Rabbit. We were over for dinner/drinks/recreation so I left my mass chromatography devices home. Only difference I remember between the two cars was the torque and suspension tuning.
Ok, I'll admit, I laughed :lol:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 30, 2014, 02:36:18 PM
It works for me. How many vacuum lines are in a Prelude anyways?
Like 4-5 I think. Biggie to the brake booster, and then some little fiddly ones for fast idle/idle air control. Thats the other thing, I could pretty much draw an Accord/Prelude engine bay off of memory... Integra's bay is just that scaled down with some minor changes. So simple even I can find my way around, not so much for the Mini.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 30, 2014, 03:07:11 PM
Like 4-5 I think. Biggie to the brake booster, and then some little fiddly ones for fast idle/idle air control. Thats the other thing, I could pretty much draw an Accord/Prelude engine bay off of memory... Integra's bay is just that scaled down with some minor changes. So simple even I can find my way around, not so much for the Mini.
The brake vacuum line is usually steel, doesn't fall apart. The other ones sure don't seem like something to base a purchase decision on. My rules with rubber hoses in old cars is simple; replace them all the first time one of them give you any trouble. Then do the brake lines.
All told, driving around my 25 year old family car with questionable history has cost less over the last year in maintenance and repairs than my wife's 2010 minivan has. I see plenty of cars from the late nineties in traffic everyday, many of them worse for wear, but still slogging through the daily grind. And that's in Michigan, where we salt the roads so much our winter road kill is beef jerky by springtime.
And a Prelude is in uncountable objective ways a better product and a newer design than my car.
No, it's far from a fairy tale.
Your wagon is a lot simpler design with a drivetrain that was ancient with the bugs worked out of it compared to a pimped out honda.
The SH-system among many other things are far more complicated, it is far from simple 25 yr old family car .
What is Soup driving?
The SH deal was an option I'd pass on. Plenty of base Preludes out there. Pretty much Accord coupes with smaller back seats and 50 more HP.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 30, 2014, 01:33:20 PM
Do they make a convertible GTI???
(http://image.img-erento.com/cabrio/vw-golf-vi-gti-cabrio-20-tfsi--cabrio-1603878-25155719_gallery.jpg)
Not yet the current iteration though.
There is no logic to any of this.
Fine, sell Z. But to get a Prelude? Nein.
Just get an older Volvo 940 wagon. There is your back seat and trunk.
Then you can get a similarly old Accord and rice it out for fun, but never drive it because it will be horrible to commute in.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 04:31:36 PM
Your wagon is a lot simpler design with a drivetrain that was ancient with the bugs worked out of it than a pimped out honda.
The SH-system among many other things are far more complicated, it isn't a 25 yr old family car either.
It's a design that dates back to the mid '70s, and they were still very much working the bugs out of the injection system.
The SH system in the Prelude can fail and not have any real effect on 99% of driving situations; and its a relatively rare option anyways.
But, the fact that you continue to see these cars on the road in relatively common occurrences belies the idea that its a fairy tale more than anything else.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 30, 2014, 04:36:05 PM
What is Soup driving?
The SH deal was an option I'd pass on. Plenty of base Preludes out there. Pretty much Accord coupes with smaller back seats and 50 more HP.
A 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS Colony Park; aka the wagon queen family Truckster.
And technically, I don't think it was ever a family car either. The title said it belonged to some outfit called "chink's steaks."
I spent more than a year daily driving my 944. No biggie. You just have to commit to it. :huh:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on September 30, 2014, 04:49:23 PM
There is no logic to any of this.
Fine, sell Z. But to get a Prelude? Nein.
Just get an older Volvo 940 wagon. There is your back seat and trunk.
Then you can get a similarly old Accord and rice it out for fun, but never drive it because it will be horrible to commute in.
Logic is over rated. Use too much of it, and you'll end up like Cougs.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on September 30, 2014, 04:49:23 PM
There is no logic to any of this.
It's Carspin, where anything can happen.
Quote from: Rupert on September 30, 2014, 05:28:45 PM
I spent more than a year daily driving my 944. No biggie. You just have to commit to it. :huh:
I daily drive a muscle car that's been through hell and back. :lol:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 30, 2014, 03:16:07 PM
And that's in Michigan, where we salt the roads so much our winter road kill is beef jerky by springtime.
:golfclap:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 30, 2014, 05:03:54 PM
It's a design that dates back to the mid '70s, and they were still very much working the bugs out of the injection system.
The SH system in the Prelude can fail and not have any real effect on 99% of driving situations; and its a relatively rare option anyways.
But, the fact that you continue to see these cars on the road in relatively common occurrences belies the idea that its a fairy tale more than anything else.
Really, a tbi injection system needed its kinks worked out in 91. No, not buying it, multi-port was already commonplace and robust.
Eh, I drive a 17 yr old car everyday that has been extremely reliable, but I wouldn't want to trust it for an hour long commute everyday.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 30, 2014, 10:07:19 AM
The GTI however is light years ahead in being a much more upscale car vs. the Mini.
The GTI will always have a more plebeian image than the Mini, yes it is faster, yes it is bigger.
Having driven a S, I thought it was much more fun to drive than the '12 GTI one of my tech owns.
Quote from: Rupert on September 30, 2014, 05:28:45 PM
I spent more than a year daily driving my 944. No biggie. You just have to commit to it. :huh:
Yeah, but driving a 944 is probably worth the effort.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
Really, a tbi injection system needed its kinks worked out in 91. No, not buying it, multi-port was already commonplace and robust.
Eh, I drive a 17 yr old car everyday that has been extremely reliable, but I wouldn't want to trust it for an hour long commute everyday.
Not a TBI. Nevermind anyways, I'm sure you know what's best.
OK, so it was a speed density multi-port that debuted in what '86? Are you arguing that it was not well sorted by then?
Pretty weak.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 06:30:29 PM
OK, so it was a speed density multi-port that debuted in what '86? Are you arguing that it was not well sorted by then?
Pretty weak.
You're right. I'm just making things up; I havent at all been dealing with its eccentricities for the last year or more.
So actually it is a pita to deal with an old car for a daily commuter.
Lets stop the pointless chatter and get back to talking about Hondas.
Wait a minute. .......:confused:
Quote from: GoCougs on September 30, 2014, 02:26:41 PM
Not yet. R&T has a comparo of the new MINI and Mark VII GTI in this month's issue however. They said the MINI interior is indeed hugely upgraded and actually quieter than the GTI now (though they said the GTI remains in total a much better car).
The GTI is a better all-around car. The MINI is a better and more fun toy.
Quote from: Char on September 30, 2014, 02:32:32 PM
Yeah. I still would do a E46 323/325/328 over those cars. Cheap to buy and insure - RWD, more standard power and damn reliable.
Oh of course. I would too. But remember that here people think BMW parts are made from unobtanium and maintenance tasks can only be done by an Arian german that charges a lot of euros per hour so that he can go on his two months long euro trash vacation to Ibiza.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 06:36:35 PM
So actually it is a pita to deal with an old car for a daily commuter.
That's not what you said a minute ago.
(BTW, I love that you googled what sort of injection my car had after you decided it was problem free; but I wonder that it suddenly got so bad to be a pain in the ass)
Is bmw still making the mini?
I've spent a good amount of time behind the wheel of an R56 S, it's definitely more fun than the GTI. I also think the interior is as HQ, but it's way tackier (obviously). GTI is roomier, quieter, more maturely styled, and easier to live with because of all of the above. I like the Cooper S a lot.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 30, 2014, 06:45:32 PM
That's not what you said a minute ago.
(BTW, I love that you googled what sort of injection my car had after you decided it was problem free; but I wonder that it suddenly got so bad to be a pain in the ass)
No, I just remembered our conversation in your thread that it was speed density and MFI and how I commented how it would be prime for a DIYJY turbo.
So the MFI in the 5.0 is complex just like the MFI in the honda, but that wouldn't be problematic in a honda.
Quote from: CALL_911 on September 30, 2014, 07:53:30 PM
I've spent a good amount of time behind the wheel of an R56 S, it's definitely more fun than the GTI.
How so?
Pfft, I daily drive a car that is 17yrs old, and I loaded it up fully and drove it 3/4 of the way across America. And back.
Since then I've driven it from SC to MD and back several times...
Rolled 191k miles this month.
Quote from: CALL_911 on September 30, 2014, 07:53:30 PM
I've spent a good amount of time behind the wheel of an R56 S, it's definitely more fun than the GTI. I also think the interior is as HQ, but it's way tackier (obviously). GTI is roomier, quieter, more maturely styled, and easier to live with because of all of the above. I like the Cooper S a lot.
No offense but this I would dispute. The GTI has rather pedestrian styling, that is not necessarily more mature. I would also be surprised if the median age of GTI owners is not much younger than that of Minis. The mini does have more retro style, but I would argue it is more acceptable among those of mature age and means.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 08:18:10 PM
No, I just remembered our conversation in your thread that it was speed density and MFI and how I commented how it would be prime for a DIJY turbo.
So the MFI in the 5.0 is complex just like the MFI in the honda, but that wouldn't be problematic in a honda.
Well, for a couple of reasons: One, MAF fuel injection is simpler mechanically, and adjusts for different temperature more accurately. Second, OBDII vehicles in general are just easier to diagnose.
Third, while I said it had eccentricities, none of them are bad enough to keep the car from running. It runs rich in the cold, and is hard to start after its sat for a while. These reasons, amongst a few others is why Ford itself soon abandoned their speed density fuel injection.
Okay, so to clarify, what I'm saying is this: You definitely can have an older car as a reliable daily driver. It does take a little bit of looking after, which includes preventive maintenance, mechanical adjustments and some other stuff that a new car owner needn't be chuffed with. None of that however, makes it an unfeasible thing to do: and certainly not a fairy tale- as anybody who sees the vastly increasing number fo older cars on the road would have to admit.
OK, that is valid, so I was a bit over the top with the fairy tale but the point I was getting at was that a 20 year old integra is going to need maintenance. The man doesn't even have a garage to work on it and he is going to count on an old integra to drive considerable distance everyday.
Of course you can do it, I DD an old car. It doesn't necessarily always feel comforting though does it, but i do it because I like the car and my commute is short.
Old cars are on road I would bet mostly because people are financially hurting and they don't have the means to do otherwise.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 08:37:22 PM
Old cars are on road I would bet mostly because people are financially hurting and they don't have the means to do otherwise.
Mostly, probably, yes.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 30, 2014, 08:23:19 PM
No offense but this I would dispute. The GTI has rather pedestrian styling, that is not necessarily more mature. I would also be surprised if the median age of GTI owners is not much younger than that of Minis. The mini does have more retro style, but I would argue it is more acceptable among those of mature age and means.
None taken. I'm 22, so I'm not exactly in a position to talk about mature. The GTI is more restrained.
I feel like you guys go out of your way to recommend cars that are explicitly unreliable.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 30, 2014, 09:12:41 PM
I feel like you guys go out of your way to recommend cars that are explicitly unreliable.
You should buy yourself an Alfa Romeo.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 30, 2014, 06:13:02 AM
I don't think so. This isn't the Northeast. People down here love trucks and people down here have guns. I don't think car theft is an issue here. There was a kid who lived here who had an Integra with "work"... he parked it outside all the time :huh: Plus if they steal it I will have full coverage, who cares.
Wasn't CJ's brother's Integra stolen in Texas, the land of guns and trucks?
Quote from: Raza on September 30, 2014, 09:37:34 PM
Wasn't CJ's brother's Integra stolen in Texas, the land of guns and trucks?
Yes, his
Integras were stolen.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 30, 2014, 08:43:27 AM
I'd rather have to deal with periodic shit like belts, bushings and vacuum lines than feel like I'm rolling the dice every time I start my car.
And "feeling like a 20 yr old design" is not a bad thing, especially when that 20 yr old design has less weight and a much better suspension than the built to cost shit made today.
Everyone keeps talking about the S as well, why... if I got any it would be the base Cooper which we all agree is garbage. MINIs make MKIV VWs look reliable, lets stop talking about them here.
Quote from: Raza on September 30, 2014, 04:58:04 AM
HotRodPilot always said the base model was more fun to drive than his S.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on September 30, 2014, 09:29:22 AM
I had a lot more fun driving a base Cooper than my S, but that was in 2006.
:huh:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 30, 2014, 01:13:39 PM
Wifey's car is a GTI interior wise.
That's just incorrect. Even if basic design is the same, materials are different, and it's now two generations old compared to the Golf that's on sale now. I liked my MkV a lot, but my roommate's MkVII GTI is even better put together with nicer materials. There's nothing wrong with the MkV's interior, the MkVI and MkVII are incrementally better, though.
Quote from: Raza on September 30, 2014, 09:43:12 PM
That's just incorrect. Even if basic design is the same, materials are different, and it's now two generations old compared to the Golf that's on sale now. I liked my MkV a lot, but my roommate's MkVII GTI is even better put together with nicer materials. There's nothing wrong with the MkV's interior, the MkVI and MkVII are incrementally better, though.
I thought you were mocking me at first :lol:
Quote from: Galaxy on September 30, 2014, 04:38:28 PM
(http://image.img-erento.com/cabrio/vw-golf-vi-gti-cabrio-20-tfsi--cabrio-1603878-25155719_gallery.jpg)
Not yet the current iteration though.
Damn, that's a good looking car.
Quote from: 68_427 on September 30, 2014, 09:39:42 PM
Yes, his Integras were stolen.
There were multiple Integras? All stolen from the driveway?
I also love the argument that being insured means it's not a big problem. All of a sudden Sporty is Epictetus. Like it wouldn't be a huge pain in the ass to deal with having your car jacked. And unless you have no emotional connection to your car whatsoever, I can't see it not being a terrible experience.
Quote from: MrH on September 30, 2014, 09:44:49 PM
I thought you were mocking me at first :lol:
Nope. Didn't even see your post until after I posted.
On occasion, I do make serious posts here. It's like 80/20 joke to serious.
Quote from: Raza on September 30, 2014, 09:45:11 PM
Damn, that's a good looking car.
You're Helen Keller.
Quote from: Raza on September 30, 2014, 09:50:17 PM
There were multiple Integras? All stolen from the driveway?
I also love the argument that being insured means it's not a big problem. All of a sudden Sporty is Epictetus. Like it wouldn't be a huge pain in the ass to deal with having your car jacked. And unless you have no emotional connection to your car whatsoever, I can't see it not being a terrible experience.
I was pissed when someone stole my bike pump, can't imagine the rage of my car being jacked.
Quote from: Char on September 30, 2014, 09:57:53 PM
You're Helen Keller.
And you're a stupid fuck internet troll with nothing to add, even to the internet. And that bar is pretty damn low. Your shtick is getting so old, it's looking for retirement homes.
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 30, 2014, 10:13:26 PM
I was pissed when someone stole my bike pump, can't imagine the rage of my car being jacked.
Yeah, but your bicycle pump wasn't insured, man. If you had insurance you'd have been like "LOL wutever".
Quote from: Raza on September 30, 2014, 10:13:37 PM
And you're a stupid fuck internet troll with nothing to add, even to the internet. And that bar is pretty damn low. Your shtick is getting so old, it's looking for retirement homes.
That's dangerously close to a "yo momma" joke.
I expect better.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 30, 2014, 11:20:48 PM
That's dangerously close to a "yo momma" joke.
I expect better.
I don't.
Quote from: Raza on September 30, 2014, 10:13:37 PM
And you're a stupid fuck internet troll with nothing to add, even to the internet. And that bar is pretty damn low. Your shtick is getting so old, it's looking for retirement homes.
Stop being an hormonal female and let me mod your car.
Quote from: Raza on September 30, 2014, 09:43:12 PM
That's just incorrect. Even if basic design is the same, materials are different, and it's now two generations old compared to the Golf that's on sale now. I liked my MkV a lot, but my roommate's MkVII GTI is even better put together with nicer materials. There's nothing wrong with the MkV's interior, the MkVI and MkVII are incrementally better, though.
Sorry- wifeys Rabbit is basically an
MKV GTI inside.
Quote from: Raza on September 30, 2014, 09:50:17 PM
There were multiple Integras? All stolen from the driveway?
I also love the argument that being insured means it's not a big problem. All of a sudden Sporty is Epictetus. Like it wouldn't be a huge pain in the ass to deal with having your car jacked. And unless you have no emotional connection to your car whatsoever, I can't see it not being a terrible experience.
Like I said this isn't Patterson, NJ. Car theft is not that big of a deal here. At least not imports... like I said, pickup trucks and guns. Plus I live in an area with a lot of money right on the lake, and the cops here have jack shit to do but write tickets and direct traffic. You are puffing up a boogeyman to push me into buying a car YOU like.
Teggy is a little too old for me anyway. Realistically it's probably going to be the TSX. I may even throw some more money up and get something <10 yrs old. The 06-07s make a hair more power/torque.
Re: E46 vs TSX, here's a post from a guy with extensive experience with both
QuoteSomeone asked in another thread who I liked my wife's TSX compared to my 325. Rather than go OT there, I decided to post the writeup in a new thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allaboutme
Duke, how does the tsx compare with your 3?
Well, they are similar in many ways. In fact, I was strongly considering a second TSX when I was shopping for the 3 you see there over the last couple months. I would have gotten the 6MT version, though.
We paid $27,200 for the TSX, new, in October 2004. It has navigation (the only real option on the TSX) and now has about 8500 miles on it. In February 2006 I was shopping for 3-series BMWs and I could have had a used 2004 325i with 10k-20k on the clock for about the same price that we bought the TSX new, but it would have lacked some features - notably the navigation system. Acura's DVD system is really pretty good, and I like the way it integrates the audio/HVAC controls. The voice control works well and is convenient for doing all kinds of things without taking your eyes off the road.
I like the styling of both cars, a lot actually, but the Bim gets the nod because of the short front overhang and longer hood of the RWD platform. The TSX is very cleanly styled though and it is nice to look at IRL. Styling is subjective, anyway, so that's that.
On the inside, it's a tough call. The overall look/feel of the leather and plastics is good on both cars, considering the under-$30k price tags. The switchgear and controls are well placed in both cars and feel good and solid in use. One oddity with the TSX is that the central locking switches are placed in different spots on the driver and passenger doors. I also prefer the BMW's "pull once to unlock, again to open" intrerior door handles; on the TSX you have to use the central locking switch to unlock the door to get out. The BMW has 1-touch open and close on all 4 windows and the moonroof, whereas the TSX on gets 1-touch close on the front windows.
The BMW's sport seats are a little more comfy for me, but the TSX's seats are more supportive and comfortable than the base 3-series seats, so that's a wash. The TSX seats are quite good indeed and I have no complaints about them. The Acura's seats are power
adjust, and the BMW's are not... though of course they would be in a ZPP car.
Overall the Acura has a little more interior space - it's slightly wider and has more back seat room by a small margin. It wins in trunk space, both in the bay itself and in the size of the trunk lid opening. The BMW loses by not having anywhere but the glove box that will hold a CD case. The TSX has both the console bin and the dash bin large enough to hold a stack of jewelcased CDs. The TSX has an in-dash changer over the BMW's single slot or trunk mounted changer (not on my car). Visibility is good in both cars, with the exception of a bit to the rear - the weak spot on both. The Acura's rear-view mirror is self-dimming, and it works better than the BMW's manual one. Acura's side mirror joystick has a center "off" position, unlike the BMW's, which is vulnerable to getting knocked out of position because the switch is always controlling the left or right mirror. The Acura gets the nod for having cup holders in the rear center armrest.
On the road is of course the test.
The TSX is deceptively quick. The 2.4l 4 cylinder is down on torque but up on horsepower over the 2.5l 6 in the 325. It is no slug, though, and even though the ATX rarely lets it get into VTEC-land under normal circumstances, I've never really found myself wishing for more power. More would never be bad - but it's not a weakness in the package. The Acura will move right out, even with 4 people in it, and rarely hunts around when you need a little extra push. The TSX's drivetrain should be in the NVH museum - it's silky smooth, and has a nice snarl without being one bit thrashy. It's the nicest ATX I've ever driven, bar none. Shifts are smooth but firm and crisp. Even though it has a "sport shift" mode, I never use it. The car monitors throttle position, cornering force, braking, and even pitch, and adjusts the shift points to match the driving. If you're driving spiritedly on a good road, you'll find the TSX's autobox doing deaccel downshifts for you, dropping 5>4>3 as you brake for a turn, so there is no delay when you get back on the throttle at the apex. It also senses when the car is pointed down a steep hill and will hold a lower gear if you are using the brakes.
The 325, on the other hand, does seem to step off a little more quickly, then go a little flat until the cam timing changes. It's a little less smooth and a little more aggressive sounding, but still planty refined. We haven't had a chance to run against each other at the Stoplight Nationals yet - I expect I'll take her, but not by much.
The 6-speed TSX is a cable shifter, so it's not quite as direct as the BMW, but nearly, and it is smoother. The clutch on the one I drove was smooth and well-weighted. The clutch on my BMW seems to be nicely modulated, but I've driven several where the takeup is very high on the pedal and in a very narrow range, making it hard to get smooth shifts.
The TSX's brakes perform quite well and feel confidence-inspiring. They have an agressive initial repsonse, so the BMW brakes get the nod for being a little easier to drive smoothly while stopping the car with great effectiveness. The TSX's brakes do manage to have good cold bite without requiring biweekly trips to the car wash to get the dust off the wheels.
Luckily, the TSX doesn't share the typical Honda overboosted steering rack. My mother's Accord SE felt like your hands were full of Novocaine. The TSX, in contrast, has firm steering effort and direct response; almost as good as the BMW. Torquesteer is almost nonexistant, and is certainly no more noticeable (or annoying) than the BMW's tendency to tramline a little. Even FWD, the TSX's steering feel is superior to the 2001/02 3-series rack. It gives up a little to my '03 version, though. You do tend to lose a little feedback about the front contact patches when you're on the power. Understeer in the TSX is present but not noticeable under most circumstances, and a little lift tucks the nose in neatly. The VSC/TCS in the Acura almost never kicks in; mostly only if one tire catches a slick spot pulling out of a light on a rainy day. I've never had it yell at me for attacking a corner.
In a year and a half, the only problem we've had with the TSX is that the driver's side headlight leaked. It fogged up, and eventually got wet enough to burn out the invertor. This was handled under warranty with a revised part and hasn't recurred. Other than that it's been 100% reliable. I've heard tell that Honda's paint is soft, and I know Hondas tend to rust when they age. That's my only real worry about the long-term prospects for the TSX.
The only reason I didn't buy another TSX is that I've been driving a FWD car for the last 10 or 12 years, and I wanted to get back into something RWD. Other than that, I'd buy a 6MT one in a minute
I'm not really crazy about E90s as I see them everywhere. RWD is cool and that's one of the things I will miss... getting the Z locked into a corner, mashing the gas on the way out and getting no wheelspin is always entertaining. But eh. I always have the bike.
TSX will fit 255/40R17s with careful offset and tire choices... so worst comes to worst I can just glue it to the road to cure understeer :)
Isn't there going to be a TSX coming off lease in washington soon?..
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 30, 2014, 11:20:48 PM
That's dangerously close to a "yo momma" joke.
I expect better.
I was tired.
Quote from: Char on September 30, 2014, 11:57:10 PM
Stop being an hormonal female and let me mod your car.
Mod your own car, you know, when you get over your perpetual contrarian teenage angst and become old enough to own a car.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2014, 06:31:11 AM
Like I said this isn't Patterson, NJ. Car theft is not that big of a deal here. At least not imports... like I said, pickup trucks and guns. Plus I live in an area with a lot of money right on the lake, and the cops here have jack shit to do but write tickets and direct traffic. You are puffing up a boogeyman to push me into buying a car YOU like.
Teggy is a little too old for me anyway. Realistically it's probably going to be the TSX. I may even throw some more money up and get something <10 yrs old. The 06-07s make a hair more power/torque.
But your pickup trucks and guns argument doesn't hold when CJ's brother had multiple Integras stolen in Texas.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2014, 06:20:44 AM
Sorry- wifeys Rabbit is basically an MKV GTI inside.
That's closer, but still not completely accurate.
Quote from: Raza on October 01, 2014, 07:45:05 AM
But your pickup trucks and guns argument doesn't hold when CJ's brother had multiple Integras stolen in Texas.
:deadhorse"
Quote from: Raza on October 01, 2014, 07:47:25 AM
That's closer, but still not completely accurate.
More accurate than your initial interpretation of that comment.
I havent been sleeping well, I dont have the energy to engage your hyperbolic pedantry today. Maybe tomorrow we can argue over the difference in damping on the fan speed knobs between the two cars but right now that just seems like a pretty stupid thing to get worked up over.
Quote from: Raza on October 01, 2014, 07:44:07 AM
Mod your own car, you know, when you get over your perpetual contrarian teenage angst and become old enough to own a car.
So. Much. Butthurt.
You know I have a thread dedicated to my car, right?
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 30, 2014, 08:22:20 PM
Pfft, I daily drive a car that is 17yrs old, and I loaded it up fully and drove it 3/4 of the way across America. And back.
Since then I've driven it from SC to MD and back several times...
Rolled 191k miles this month.
My friend spends half or more of her life on the road and travelling, and she drove a 1991 Subaru Loyale with 250 kmiles for years up until this August.
Quote from: Char on October 01, 2014, 11:43:44 AM
So. Much. Butthurt.
This coming from a guy who made a revenge build thread, has an aneurism anytime anything positive about VW is said, and may very well be the whiniest, most combative, fly off the handle poster on a board full of angry loudmouths?
IDK bro.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2014, 12:09:54 PM
This coming from a guy who made a revenge build thread, has an aneurism anytime anything positive about VW is said, and may very well be the whiniest, most combative, fly off the handle poster on a board full of angry loudmouths?
IDK bro.
Are we talking about Raza or me?
Its pretty clear who I'm talking about... u lost any grounds to give anyone shit long ago. Stick to being agreeable and low key, ur not built for dat troll life.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2014, 12:14:30 PM
Its pretty clear who I'm talking about... u lost any grounds to give anyone shit long ago. Stick to being agreeable and low key, ur not built for dat troll life.
I've never lost the right to anything. I've been consistantly "right" in every conversation I've taken part in, and for good reason - I know what the hell I'm taking about. Trolling you and everyone else about it is just a secondary benefit of it.
Char, did you ever get around to getting some baseline numbers for that new donkey you are going to tune up?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 01, 2014, 03:57:19 PM
Char, did you ever get around to getting some baseline numbers for that new donkey you are going to tune up?
Sure, it was 5whp. Download winpep and I'll even send you the runfiles. ;)
Quote from: Char on October 01, 2014, 11:43:44 AM
So. Much. Butthurt.
You know I have a thread dedicated to my car, right?
Where you talk about maybe modifying your girlfriend's Mazda3? Boy, your girlfriend possibly maybe put me in my or someone else's place.
Quote from: Char on October 01, 2014, 03:54:54 PM
I've never lost the right to anything. I've been consistantly "right" in every conversation I've taken part in, and for good reason - I know what the hell I'm taking about. Trolling you and everyone else about it is just a secondary benefit of it.
LOL, you're like a less subtle version of Cougs.
I'll never understand the psyche of an internet troll when he's not smart or clever. It just doesn't make sense to me. Time to go back on ignore, there's nothing to see here.
Quote from: Raza on October 02, 2014, 06:56:13 AM
LOL, you're like a less subtle version of Cougs.
I'll never understand the psyche of an internet troll when he's not smart or clever. It just doesn't make sense to me. Time to go back on ignore, there's nothing to see here.
Raza's list just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
:lol:
Quote from: Char on October 01, 2014, 03:54:54 PM
I've never lost the right to anything. I've been consistantly "right" in every conversation I've taken part in, and for good reason - I know what the hell I'm taking about. Trolling you and everyone else about it is just a secondary benefit of it.
Where's the LOLcopter when you need it???????????????????????
Quote from: Raza on October 02, 2014, 06:56:13 AM
LOL, you're like a less subtle version of Cougs.
I'll never understand the psyche of an internet troll when he's not smart or clever. It just doesn't make sense to me. Time to go back on ignore, there's nothing to see here.
C'mon, man, time to put on your big boy pants and stop holding grudges.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img594/7939/dsc0137xx.jpg)
Those Preludes are awesome. Basically a 2 seater though. I need 4 doors
I'm kind of intrigued by the ILX 2.4. I could do new too if I wait another year. But then that opens things up significantly. For that money the upcoming stickshift Mazda 3 2.5 hatch sounds good. I could probably find my way into a GTI as well. But would any of those be fun enough to drive to hold my interest for 3-4 years? I really don't know.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 14, 2014, 06:24:18 AM
I'm kind of intrigued by the ILX 2.4. I could do new too if I wait another year. But then that opens things up significantly. For that money the upcoming stickshift Mazda 3 2.5 hatch sounds good. I could probably find my way into a GTI as well. But would any of those be fun enough to drive to hold my interest for 3-4 years? I really don't know.
You're worried about a GTI being fun enough, but you would buy an Accord?
I am not sure about the Accord/TSX being as fun as I want either, but I know their potential in the context of what I like. Wifey's car and my friend's GTI have not sold me on VW's dynamics.
Pretty sure the GTI would entertain you more than a TSX would.
Nah man the only options are full-on racecar or boring family sedan. Compromise is for pussies.
I've been on and off shopping for a daily for awhile now, it's actually really hard since there isn't really much out there. After alot of thought, and research I've always came to the same conclusion. The GTI is probably the best enthusiast daily driver car from a practicality and performance standpoint. In 4 door trim(the only one I'd want) it offers alot in terms of economy, passenger space, cargo space, performance and a dash of refinement that's hard to find in the few other competitors in the segment. Granted it is a easy pic since a 4 door hatch(or wagon) is by default going to be the best in terms of usability when it comes to practical interior space usage. Close second for me would be a Mazda 3.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 14, 2014, 06:24:18 AM
But would any of those be fun enough to drive to hold my interest for 3-4 years? I really don't know.
After the Z? You're crazy. Of course not.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 14, 2014, 11:17:43 AM
After the Z? You're crazy. Of course not.
The Z can't even hold his interest.
Lotus Elise is the only answer.
Quote from: hotrodalex on October 14, 2014, 11:44:28 AM
The Z can't even hold his interest.
Lotus Elise is the only answer.
Would be funnier with less strawman, I'm not bored with the Z.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 14, 2014, 10:48:38 AM
I've been on and off shopping for a daily for awhile now, it's actually really hard since there isn't really much out there. After alot of thought, and research I've always came to the same conclusion. The GTI is probably the best enthusiast daily driver car from a practicality and performance standpoint. In 4 door trim(the only one I'd want) it offers alot in terms of economy, passenger space, cargo space, performance and a dash of refinement that's hard to find in the few other competitors in the segment. Granted it is a easy pic since a 4 door hatch(or wagon) is by default going to be the best in terms of usability when it comes to practical interior space usage. Close second for me would be a Mazda 3.
VWs just leave me kind of cold when I actually drive them. The 2015 GTI looks to be a pretty strong contender though. Gets 28 MPG combined, faster and lighter than the old car. The Mazda 3 is legit too though. They are putting the 2.5L with the stick in for 2015, and it runs on regular instead of premium. Cheaper and I feel like it will be more fun to drive too. Lot of folks seeing >40 MPG on highway trips. Only downer is I can't chip the 3, bro! TSX has a deep established toybox to play with... Mazdas generally dont have good aftermarket support compared to Hondas or even Nissans. So it would be what it would be pretty much.
Still though, 2.5 6MT comes pretty much how I want it for $25K.... pretty good deal
I like the Mazda 3, but every time I did price comparisons the GTI just always came out as more car for little or no extra money.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 14, 2014, 08:08:55 AM
I am not sure about the Accord/TSX being as fun as I want either, but I know their potential in the context of what I like. Wifey's car and my friend's GTI have not sold me on VW's dynamics.
GTI v. ILX and you're worried the GTI would be enough fun?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 14, 2014, 11:17:43 AM
After the Z? You're crazy. Of course not.
GTI is more fun than a 350Z.
Whether it'll hold his interest is a completely different and largely baffling story.
Quote from: Raza on October 14, 2014, 01:16:27 PM
GTI is more fun than a 350Z.
I haven't driven either but would think a 300+hp RWD sports car is more fun than a 200+hp FWD hatch. But maybe my standards for 300hp+ RWD cars are too high. :)
Quote from: Raza on October 14, 2014, 01:16:27 PM
GTI is more fun than a 350Z.
Whether it'll hold his interest is a completely different and largely baffling story.
U flip flop on the Z daily. One day its a pig the next day u want to buy a drop top. And u suggested an MKIV era Audi TT over the Z. A cramped Golf over a real deal sports car lol.
Like I said about 3 posts ago I'm not getting rid of the Z because I'm bored with it. I'm getting rid of it because it's not practical enough anymore and is kind of a PITA to fuel up and drive 80 miles a day. None of the cars I'm looking at are anywhere as fun as a Z, but thats not the point. I thought u went from your Boxster to the GLI for some of the same reasons but now I'm seeing you may have actually seen the GLI as an upgrade :confused: Sorry, I think VWs are cool but my VWAG fanboyism doesn't run anywhere as deep as yours.
Quote from: Raza on October 14, 2014, 01:15:06 PM
GTI v. ILX and you're worried the GTI would be enough fun?
Like I said, GTI I drove wasnt that much fun. ILX is a Honda... just a Neuspeed Supercup Kit and upgraded rotors/pads away from FWD dynamic nirvana. No brake vectoring bullshit necessary.
You've got the most delusional view of Honda + aftermarket stuff. I don't even know how to describe it.
Ive experienced it. My first Accord had Neuspeed/Konis and it rode and handled perfectly on NYC roads. It does look like Honda lost its mojo a bit with the 9G Civic but I'm still gonna give an ILX a try if I go the new car route.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 14, 2014, 02:26:58 PM
Ive experienced it. My first Accord had Neuspeed/Konis and it rode perfectly on NYC roads. It does look like Honda lost its mojo a bit with the 9G Civic but I'm still gonna give an ILX a try if I go the new car route.
One word: MacPherson Struts. Fuck em. I mean, they work, but they are far from optimal. If you want to be a suspension fanboy, you need a pre-7G Civic.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 14, 2014, 01:18:19 PM
I haven't driven either but would think a 300+hp RWD sports car is more fun than a 200+hp FWD hatch. But maybe my standards for 300hp+ RWD cars are too high. :)
Nah, he's just trolling - any FM VQ car (350/370Z, G37 coupe/sedan) walks on the GTI for pure driving essence. The GTI's advantages are non driving (hatchback, much less costly, etc.).
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 14, 2014, 02:37:51 PM
One word: MacPherson Struts. Fuck em. I mean, they work, but they are far from optimal. If you want to be a suspension fanboy, you need a pre-7G Civic.
Yea Porsches and BMWs have always had such shit front end grip and feel
ILX doesn't do much for me. With the 2.4L it's starting price is only a thousand less than a TLX.
If I were going to enter the Honda camp, I'd probably buy a Fit and throw some stiffer sway bars on it with some good sticky rubber and just enjoy the frugality of it.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 14, 2014, 03:56:34 PM
ILX doesn't do much for me. With the 2.4L it's starting price is only a thousand less than a TLX.
If I were going to enter the Honda camp, I'd probably buy a Fit and throw some stiffer sway bars on it with some good sticky rubber and just enjoy the frugality of it.
With a turbo
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 14, 2014, 03:56:34 PM
ILX doesn't do much for me. With the 2.4L it's starting price is only a thousand less than a TLX.
If I were going to enter the Honda camp, I'd probably buy a Fit and throw some stiffer sway bars on it with some good sticky rubber and just enjoy the frugality of it.
TLX no stickshift and is like 500lbs heavier.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 14, 2014, 04:03:15 PM
TLX no stickshift and is like 500lbs heavier.
Sorry, meant TSX. You could probably pick one up for less than the ILX now that they are on the way out. It's a much better looking(ext and int) car IMO.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 14, 2014, 01:18:19 PM
I haven't driven either but would think a 300+hp RWD sports car is more fun than a 200+hp FWD hatch. But maybe my standards for 300hp+ RWD cars are too high. :)
:hesaid:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 14, 2014, 04:04:32 PM
Sorry, meant TSX. You could probably pick one up for less than the ILX now that they are on the way out. It's a much better looking(ext and int) car IMO.
If I had to rank the Acuras Im considering the 2G TSX would be in last after the ILX and the 1G TSX. I hate the exterior of it. I like the ILX, every time I see it I'm like 'huh looks better than pictures'
Civic wouldn't be so bad if not for the dash and boy racer looks
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 14, 2014, 02:58:38 PM
Yea Porsches and BMWs have always had such shit front end grip and feel
I said they work, but nobody really loves them. And the front end of the Civic did change to having shit front end grip and feel. Say more words.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 14, 2014, 05:40:06 PM
I said they work, but nobody really loves them. And the front end of the Civic did change to having shit front end grip and feel. Say more words.
7th gen Civic front end was no good cause they fucked up the geometry. 8th gen was pretty much as good as DWB front and rear. 9th gen steering is worse but I think that's mainly cause they switched from crank driven PS to full on EPS with a slow ass rack.
8th gen chassis is serious. End of this vid is a race with an 8th gen CTR, an NSX, S2K, 350Z and DC5. Look where the DC5 ends up vs the CTR with the same engine and less weight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndaUTJUEzDg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndaUTJUEzDg)
R Compound tires too I believe.
Yeah tire technology is the biggest difference in that video there. Tires and brakes.
No it is not tire tech.
It is the fact that there are no straights longer than a school bus and the track is so tight there are few places two cars can actually fit.
Quote from: SVT32V on October 16, 2014, 05:52:24 PM
No it is not tire tech.
It is the fact that there are no straights longer than a school bus and the track is so tight there are few places two cars can actually fit.
You aren't serious right? Also fairly certain Char and I were referencing the time trial lap when compared to the NSX, Evo, RX-7 and GT-R from the 90's. You're saying tires have not improved since then?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Suzuka_circuit_map--2005.svg/1024px-Suzuka_circuit_map--2005.svg.png)
Not possible. Tires don't matter. - GoCougs
All of those cars were modified. Every modification to an OEM part results in decreased performance. -Cougs and half of Carspin
Quote from: SVT666 on October 16, 2014, 06:04:33 PM
Not possible. Tires don't matter. - GoCougs
:golfclap:
Cars were bone stock, though I highly doubt, for example, the NSX/ITR were riding on old tires. Cant see the vid here but I would bet all the cars were on tires of the same generation/quality.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 17, 2014, 06:57:05 AM
Cars were bone stock, though I highly doubt, for example, the NSX/ITR were riding on old tires. Cant see the vid here but I would bet all the cars were on tires of the same generation/quality.
Can't be. We have to invent facts to justify why our vested preconceived notions get absolutely crushed.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 17, 2014, 06:57:05 AM
Cars were bone stock, though I highly doubt, for example, the NSX/ITR were riding on old tires. Cant see the vid here but I would bet all the cars were on tires of the same generation/quality.
I'm sure the nsx,rx7 etc clips were from 1999
What are people's thoughts on the Fiesta ST.....
They seem reasonable and I think I can get over the image. ~30 MPG combined is not shabby either.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 20, 2014, 07:42:31 PM
What are people's thoughts on the Fiesta ST.....
They seem reasonable and I think I can get over the image. ~30 MPG combined is not shabby either.
YES
Yeah, they're cool. But I think they're a touch close in price to the Focus ST, if I'm remembering correctly from building them out.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 20, 2014, 07:42:31 PM
What are people's thoughts on the Fiesta ST.....
They seem reasonable and I think I can get over the image. ~30 MPG combined is not shabby either.
Now that's a good idea. New car, more economical and the most fun to drive of the current generation of small hot hatches. Also more practical.
Yea Fiesta STs are sweet
The worst part about the Fiesta ST is that you have to choose whether or not to get Recaros for an extra $2K.
Fiesta ST is more fun than focus ST from quite a few sources.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 20, 2014, 08:08:24 PM
The worst part about the Fiesta ST is that you have to choose whether or not to get Recaros for an extra $2K.
Why can Ford just tell their normal supplier to shove some more foam into the seat? How much more foam can be in there anyway?
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on October 20, 2014, 08:30:12 PM
Why can Ford just tell their normal supplier to shove some more foam into the seat? How much more foam can be in there anyway?
$1995 +tax worth of foam.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on October 20, 2014, 08:27:30 PM
Fiesta ST is more fun than focus ST from quite a few sources.
Yea this is the consensus
Aside from space I don't think anything is gained going to the Focus ST. Fiesta ST seems like a Fiat Panda on steroids which sounds fun. I just have to get over not driving something luxurious. Other bummer is it will def have to wait until long after the house, prob like next summer. But it will be cheaper which will be good.
Fiesta ST would be my choice if I picked up a second car.
Yo helllllll yea to the Fiesta ST
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii634/dmondi12/NahantBeach.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 20, 2014, 09:09:24 PM
Yea this is the consensus
Aside from space I don't think anything is gained going to the Focus ST. Fiesta ST seems like a Fiat Panda on steroids which sounds fun. I just have to get over not driving something luxurious. Other bummer is it will def have to wait until long after the house, prob like next summer. But it will be cheaper which will be good.
Yep, I guess nothing is as nice and luxurious as an early '90's Honda, right? :facepalm:
Quote from: thecarnut on October 20, 2014, 10:44:14 PM
Yep, I guess nothing is as nice and luxurious as an early '90's Honda, right? :facepalm:
A TSX is def more luxurious than a Fiesta ST
But a Fiesta ST is worlds away from cars I'm used to. I will bet it has significantly less road noise than the Z which is absolutely killing me ATM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 20, 2014, 07:42:31 PM
What are people's thoughts on the Fiesta ST.....
They seem reasonable and I think I can get over the image. ~30 MPG combined is not shabby either.
What's wrong with the image?
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201201/2012-ford-fiesta-rs-wrc_800x0w.jpg)
My problem with the ST twins is the interior. I just don't like the shapes(center console) and overall design. Looks alittle low endish(to me). Otherwise I've built many a Fiesta ST's and have thought of getting one as a daily/commuter.
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 21, 2014, 05:28:52 AM
What's wrong with the image?
Its an economy car and a dodgeball
But its a damn good driver's car and daily driver
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 21, 2014, 07:41:24 AM
My problem with the ST twins is the interior. I just don't like the shapes(center console) and overall design. Looks alittle low endish(to me). Otherwise I've built many a Fiesta ST's and have thought of getting one as a daily/commuter.
Well to be fair the Z's interior is pretty awful, especially after 180K miles. Someone on Youtube said my center console looked like it got attacked by a pack of ferrets. TSX interior is an Accord interior with EL gauges... an upgrade but not a big one. I'm not a big fan of the Predator center console either but I think I could get over it. Wish there were more cars like the Fiesta ST that werent damn MINIs
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 21, 2014, 07:49:16 AM
Its an economy car and a dodgeball
But its a damn good driver's car and daily driver
Well to be fair the Z's interior is pretty awful, especially after 180K miles. Someone on Youtube said my center console looked like it got attacked by a pack of ferrets. TSX interior is an Accord interior with EL gauges... an upgrade but not a big one. I'm not a big fan of the Predator center console either but I think I could get over it. Wish there were more cars like the Fiesta ST that werent damn MINIs
I was thinking more along the lines of new car comparisons. You can get a Mazda 3i touring for around 20K MSRP. That offers an interior leagues above either of the compact fords. The performance of the Fiesta is great, and no doubt the better driver. But these are daily drivers so putting some priority on the actual visual/physical quality is somewhat important(to me).
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 21, 2014, 08:14:01 AM
I was thinking more along the lines of new car comparisons. You can get a Mazda 3i touring for around 20K MSRP. That offers an interior leagues above either of the compact fords. The performance of the Fiesta is great, and no doubt the better driver. But these are daily drivers so putting some priority on the actual visual/physical quality is somewhat important(to me).
I feel u on that. Ultimately though you can only do so much for $22K. Straight line performance is important for me though as my commute is 70% 2 lane highways, and people drive slow as shit. So if I had to choose I'd rather have the speed.
What really needs to happen is Mazda needs to release the new MS3. I dont mind the old one except for the fact that it's both slower and less fuel efficient than my current car. And it's a little too boy racerish for me.
The thing I don't like about the Fiesta: Stubby econobox exterior styling, the interior, and the asymmetry of the interior (driver's side is larger than the passenger. The center console doesn't split it down the middle).
Also, I hate the Ford blue. Looks purple to me.
I love the way the Fiesta looks on the outside.
I just hate the way it feels like a phone booth on the inside.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 21, 2014, 07:49:16 AM
Its an economy car and a dodgeball
But its a damn good driver's car and daily driver
Well to be fair the Z's interior is pretty awful, especially after 180K miles. Someone on Youtube said my center console looked like it got attacked by a pack of ferrets. TSX interior is an Accord interior with EL gauges... an upgrade but not a big one. I'm not a big fan of the Predator center console either but I think I could get over it. Wish there were more cars like the Fiesta ST that werent damn MINIs
It's a little hot rod that behaves well as a commuter car. Take it for a test drive if you haven't already. The only option you need is the Recaros.
I would probably get it in white. The overall look of it is something I would really have to get used to. I have never been a fan of cars that look like they are made for kids and this thing looks like a 4 door Little Tykes Cozy Coupe
(http://www.littletikes.com/content/ebiz/shop/invt/612060/612060_cozy-coupe-30th-anniversary-edition_xlarge.jpg)
Interior is not terrible, but again, the UV accent lights are just silly. I wish Honda had made a turbo IRS version of the Fit... that would make things a lot easier. Wouldn't be so damn silly. But aside from that its pretty much a fit. Torquey, practical, fun and cheap to run/own. Just kind of a subjective fail and not my tastes at all.
I'm so tired of the acronym "IRS"
The Fiesta also has a torsion beam. Torsion beams are IRS. The Fit has a torsion beam. Most of the segment has torsion beams.
You're bench seat racing and you should get out and drive the damn thing.
Quote from: 2o6 on October 21, 2014, 12:34:42 PM
I'm so tired of the acronym "IRS"
The Fiesta also has a torsion beam. Torsion beams are IRS. The Fit has a torsion beam. Most of the segment has torsion beams.
You're bench seat racing and you should get out and drive the damn thing.
Huh?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 21, 2014, 12:12:25 PM
I would probably get it in white. The overall look of it is something I would really have to get used to. I have never been a fan of cars that look like they are made for kids and this thing looks like a 4 door Little Tykes Cozy Coupe
Interior is not terrible, but again, the UV accent lights are just silly. I wish Honda had made a turbo IRS version of the Fit... that would make things a lot easier. Wouldn't be so damn silly. But aside from that its pretty much a fit. Torquey, practical, fun and cheap to run/own. Just kind of a subjective fail and not my tastes at all.
I realize that your manufacturer of choice is Honda so a Ford may seem less appealing. I also get the sense that your not 'in love' with your Nissan. However, when I compare a Fit to a Fiesta, I see the Fiesta as a more stylish vehicle being sleeker with a more purposeful stance. That may be just me though. Providing I could fit comfortably in a Fiesta ST, this may be my next car...though I'm more drawn to the Focus ST.
(http://www.tflcar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/15FiestaST_22_HR.jpg)
(http://www.autoguide.com/gallery/d/902406-3/2015-Honda-Fit-06.JPG)
Quote from: 2o6 on October 21, 2014, 12:34:42 PM
I'm so tired of the acronym "IRS"
The Fiesta also has a torsion beam. Torsion beams are IRS. The Fit has a torsion beam. Most of the segment has torsion beams.
You're bench seat racing and you should get out and drive the damn thing.
I know the Fit has torsion beam. Torsion beam isn't IRS. The rear wheels are tied together, just a little less loosely than a full on solid beam. It's a pure cost move they've made work.
I've also heard that on long bouts of hard driving in the twisties the front brakes begin to cook from the "e-diff". Shit like that is an ideological turnoff.
You are right though that I need to go out and drive the car. I may actually love it in spite of those faults and in reality those things are not a huge deal. I still miss the Panda which was pretty much a 4:5ths scale Fiesta in design.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 20, 2014, 09:09:24 PM
Yea this is the consensus
Aside from space I don't think anything is gained going to the Focus ST. Fiesta ST seems like a Fiat Panda on steroids which sounds fun. I just have to get over not driving something luxurious. Other bummer is it will def have to wait until long after the house, prob like next summer. But it will be cheaper which will be good.
Why not a 500 Abarth? That is a Panda on steroids.
Quote from: Raza on October 21, 2014, 05:37:23 PM
Why not a 500 Abarth? That is a Panda on steroids.
Seems like the 500 is about as practical as a 350Z.
Quote from: Raza on October 21, 2014, 05:37:23 PM
Why not a 500 Abarth? That is a Panda on steroids.
Fiesta is hard enough to look at/be seen in. Abarth 500 is an ugly try hard IMO
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 21, 2014, 05:40:39 PM
Seems like the 500 is about as practical as a 350Z.
That too, this thing will eventually carry babies
The Focus ST is just an all around better experience inside than the Fiesta. Worth the extra money IMO.
It's a worse drive though
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 21, 2014, 05:42:24 PM
Fiesta is hard enough to look at/be seen in. Abarth 500 is an ugly try hard IMO
That too, this thing will eventually carry babies
It's got a surprising amount of room and it looks way better than anything else in its class. No way would I be upset to have one or be seen in one after driving it. Such a fantastic little car.
I don't know how many babies you're going to put in it, or their state, but if they're alive, that excellent and addictive exhaust note, not the interior space, may prove to be the prohibitive element.
Plus you could always put them on the roof.
The Abarth does have a rather pleasing exhaust note... But the ST has several excellent aftermarket options
Quote from: HotRodPilot on October 21, 2014, 08:20:07 PM
It's a worse drive though
It's all relative. The Focus ST is a better drive than all but the GTI in its respective class.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on October 21, 2014, 08:20:07 PM
It's a worse drive though
Yea if I wanted luxury I would just get the old TSX
Plus the Focus ST costs more to buy and own for not much more benefit it seems. And as good as it may be IDK that it will overcome its 400-500lb weight penalty over the Fiesta, dynamically
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 21, 2014, 12:48:16 PM
Huh?
I'm just pissy that it's now the new in vogue thing to hate, when twist axles definitely have their place in automotive technology. They're used all the time for cost and packaging reasons and they work just fine. And total suspension independence isn't always desired anyways.
Now that I've started driving, bench seat racing irritates the fuck it of me now
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 21, 2014, 12:48:16 PM
Huh?
I'm just pissy that it's now the new in vogue thing to hate, when twist axles definitely have their place in automotive technology. They're used all the time for cost and packaging reasons and they work just fine. And total suspension independence isn't always desired anyways.
Now that I've started driving, bench seat racing irritates the fuck it of me now
Nobody here slammed torsion beams though
Where did this "dodgeball" nomenclature come from?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 22, 2014, 06:31:29 AM
Yea if I wanted luxury I would just get the old TSX
Plus the Focus ST costs more to buy and own for not much more benefit it seems. And as good as it may be IDK that it will overcome its 400-500lb weight penalty over the Fiesta, dynamically
I would easy trade the .2% performance difference and couple grand for the large jump in quality on a car I would be driving daily.
Quote from: r0tor on October 22, 2014, 09:54:15 AM
I would easy trade the .2% performance difference and couple grand for the large jump in quality on a car I would be driving daily.
I just love the pipes on the Focus ST :ohyeah:.
Quote from: MX793 on October 22, 2014, 09:52:06 AM
Where did this "dodgeball" nomenclature come from?
I made it up, B segment hatchbacks look like dodgeballs.
Quote from: r0tor on October 22, 2014, 09:54:15 AM
I would easy trade the .2% performance difference and couple grand for the large jump in quality on a car I would be driving daily.
Well if u want to buy me the Focus ST then I will go for that. But the Fiesta is cheaper and more fun to drive. On paper that's more important to me. I would figure that kind of sacrifice would be something an RX-8 driver could understand
RX8s have a wonderful interior, ride quality, and build quality... Much higher than the econobox class anyway... Does not compute
Quote from: r0tor on October 22, 2014, 12:05:15 PM
RX8s have a wonderful interior, ride quality, and build quality... Much higher than the econobox class anyway... Does not compute
Corvette gas mileage, Civic straight line performance.... b-b-b-but it handles really well
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 22, 2014, 01:08:05 PM
Corvette gas mileage, Civic straight line performance.... b-b-b-but it handles really well
:lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 22, 2014, 01:08:05 PM
Corvette gas mileage, Civic straight line performance.... b-b-b-but it handles really well
I'd wager the RX8 would give an s2000 a run for it's money when it comes to driving dynamics and chassis performance. And if it topples that(the S2000) well then it pretty much puts it well beyond any honda save the NSX.
I'll never understand you honda boys, you take one of the worst japanese companies and pretend they are at the top of the heap.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 22, 2014, 03:44:41 PM
I'd wager the RX8 would give an s2000 a run for it's money when it comes to driving dynamics and chassis performance. And if it topples that(the S2000) well then it pretty much puts it well beyond any honda save the NSX.
I'll never understand you honda boys, you take one of the worst japanese companies and pretend they are at the top of the heap.
S2000, especially the 2.0L, was not much better in the straight line speed category
And the NSX is easily the greatest Japanese sports car, bar none. S2000 was pretty good too but IMO it needed either cam phasing for more torque or a V6 which would have added no weight/cost
In the real world though cars that compromise a ton for dynamics aren't really that great. I have driven S2Ks a lot and while they are orgasmic in the turns and kind of interesting on the big cam the 2.0s are dogs on the small cam. If you aren't tracking an S2K or RX-8 like once a month they seem like complete wastes
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 22, 2014, 01:08:05 PM
Corvette gas mileage, Civic straight line performance.... b-b-b-but it handles really well
That's bullshit. Modern Corvettes can easily get 30 mpg hwy.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 22, 2014, 01:08:05 PM
Corvette gas mileage, Civic straight line performance.... b-b-b-but it handles really well
I would wager I get better fuel mileage and oil mileage then you get in your shit VQ all while not sounding like a broke ass lawn mower while revving the piss out of it
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/17af8c0d26b1b56411b4e030c857736f/tumblr_moixogQT2J1rd35cbo1_250.gif)
Quote from: r0tor on October 22, 2014, 05:37:36 PM
I would wager I get better fuel mileage and oil mileage then you get in your shit VQ all while not sounding like a broke ass lawn mower while revving the piss out of it
I like the VQ. Love it.
Quote from: r0tor on October 22, 2014, 05:37:36 PM
I would wager I get better fuel mileage and oil mileage then you get in your shit VQ all while not sounding like a broke ass lawn mower while revving the piss out of it
Dubious wager considering you HAVE to rev the piss out of your car just to keep up with traffic, while I can make a 70 MPH pass on a 2 lane road w/o hitting redline
And the "shit" VQ lives on while the rotary is a distant memory
Stop lashing out at me because of real life shit thats got you down, you dont want to do this.
I don't think anyone else here worries about oil mileage
Lolol
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 22, 2014, 06:52:58 PM
I don't think anyone else here worries about oil mileage
Lolol
Not even me, and I have a DOHC Subaru.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 22, 2014, 06:52:58 PM
I don't think anyone else here worries about oil mileage
Lolol
:lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 22, 2014, 05:04:16 PM
S2000, especially the 2.0L, was not much better in the straight line speed category
And the NSX is easily the greatest Japanese sports car, bar none. S2000 was pretty good too but IMO it needed either cam phasing for more torque or a V6 which would have added no weight/cost
In the real world though cars that compromise a ton for dynamics aren't really that great. I have driven S2Ks a lot and while they are orgasmic in the turns and kind of interesting on the big cam the 2.0s are dogs on the small cam. If you aren't tracking an S2K or RX-8 like once a month they seem like complete wastes
I like the nsx, but in fairness I'd think toyota gets the nod for the best "sports" car to come out of Japan.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 22, 2014, 07:01:27 PM
I like the nsx, but in fairness I'd think toyota gets the nod for the best "sports" car to come out of Japan.
What would that be?
Supra yo, broom broom
Actually the LFA.
Neither are sports cars
Right? Raza?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 22, 2014, 06:48:32 PM
Dubious wager considering you HAVE to rev the piss out of your car just to keep up with traffic, while I can make a 70 MPH pass on a 2 lane road w/o hitting redline
And the "shit" VQ lives on while the rotary is a distant memory
Stop lashing out at me because of real life shit thats got you down, you dont want to do this.
If you had a sports car that wasnt a lawn mower, hitting redline would be considered a pleasureable experience... you knoe like your wet dream S2k, NSX, or hitting vtech yo
Oh noes, I want a sports car that I dont have to rev. I hate turbos because reving an na motor is better. Oh noes, my Z is boring. GT3 is awesome cause it revs. But I dont like to rev my engine. But the VQ is awesome cause I can only drive it like a lawn mower. But wait a turbo econo POS would be more fun. Oh hah your car burns oil. Your shit engine gets horrible mpg but I bitch relentlessly my awesome engine cant get 20mpg if I was coasting downhill with a civic towing me. Oh well every high performance engine burns oil - better to burn it than leak it. My shit engine is better because it, makes more sports car boring to drive. Long live VQ!
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 22, 2014, 07:03:41 PM
Actually the LFA.
LFA is good, but too heavy and comically overpriced
Its like a Japanese M6 priced like a Ferrari F12....... no way
NSX is an honest to goodness sports car that woke Ferrari out of its coke fueled mediocrity, with perfect balance and build quality, and (initial) value
No contest!
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 22, 2014, 07:03:41 PM
Actually the LFA.
Probably true. Still like the GT 2000 better.
Quote from: r0tor on October 22, 2014, 07:17:41 PM
If you had a sports car that wasnt a lawn mower, hitting redline would be considered a pleasureable experience... you knoe like your wet dream S2k, NSX, or hitting vtech yo
Oh noes, I want a sports car that I dont have to rev. I hate turbos because reving an na motor is better. Oh noes, my Z is boring. GT3 is awesome cause it revs. But I dont like to rev my engine. But the VQ is awesome cause I can only drive it like a lawn mower. But wait a turbo econo POS would be more fun. Oh hah your car burns oil. Your shit engine gets horrible mpg but I bitch relentlessly my awesome engine cant get 20mpg if I was coasting downhill with a civic towing me. Oh well every high performance engine burns oil - better to burn it than leak it. My shit engine is better because it, makes more sports car boring to drive. Long live VQ!
You are so terrible at this :facepalm: Its like you went out of your way to be wrong with every "jab". Please stop and spare yourself the embarrasment, you're not convincing me at all to check the Focus out over the Fiesta. In fact now I might pass on the Focus completely just to spite you
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 22, 2014, 07:21:21 PM
Probably true. Still like the GT 2000 better.
Probably true indeed. I was of course speaking from a statistical and objective angle. I have my subjective favorites but I was giving credit were it was due.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 22, 2014, 07:20:45 PM
LFA is good, but too heavy and comically overpriced
Its like a Japanese M6 priced like a Ferrari F12....... no way
NSX is an honest to goodness sports car that woke Ferrari out of its coke fueled mediocrity, with perfect balance and build quality, and (initial) value
No contest!
Kind of figured you would come up with some random nonsense why the honda had to be best.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 22, 2014, 07:24:24 PM
You are so terrible at this :facepalm: Its like you went out of your way to be wrong with every "jab". Please stop and spare yourself the embarrasment, you're not convincing me at all to check the Focus out over the Fiesta. In fact now I might pass on the Focus completely just to spite you
I'm so hurt
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 22, 2014, 07:36:41 PM
Probably true indeed. I was of course speaking from a statistical and objective angle. I have my subjective favorites but I was giving credit were it was due.
No doubt the LFA was something special for Toyota but it didn't break any new ground on the world stage. Still an impressive car though.
lol LFA too heavy - Jesus what is this place
+1 to Cougs
lol r0tor, you argue like a goddamn elementary school kid. come on, dude. you can do better than that
-1 to Cougs
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 22, 2014, 07:47:33 PM
No doubt the LFA was something special for Toyota but it didn't break any new ground on the world stage. Still an impressive car though.
We were talking about the best car from japan. It wasn't a comparison of anything else.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 22, 2014, 07:49:14 PM
lol LFA too heavy - Jesus what is this place
:lol:
The car with the custom carbon fiber looms just to make the A-pillars is too heavy. I laughed too.
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 22, 2014, 07:52:34 PM
+1 to Cougs
lol r0tor, you argue like a goddamn elementary school kid. come on, dude. you can do better than that
Why put effort into it?
We are talking about an engine powering a sports car (isn't the engine like the heart of a sports car) that is being praised by the same person who says his car is boring to drive, guzzles gas, burns oil and wants to replace it with a fwd turbo econocrap. I fail to see a reason to even try to be remotely serious.
Then you get a comment that your suppose to take offense to reving the piss out of your engine?!?! Hello - it makes driving a sporty car FUN. I wouldn't not want to rev the hell out of my engine.
The VQ is great for a sedan. Its even OK for a crossover. It sucks for a sports car. Any engine that sounds and feels like a lawnmower does not deserve to be placed in a sports car - or else the owners will be afraid to actually drive hard and have fun and start bitching the car is boring.
Quote from: r0tor on October 22, 2014, 08:24:23 PM
Then you get a comment that your suppose to take offense to reving the piss out of your engine?!?! Hello - it makes driving a sporty car FUN. I wouldn't not want to rev the hell out of my engine.
The VQ is great for a sedan. Its even OK for a crossover. It sucks for a sports car. Any engine that sounds and feels like a lawnmower does not deserve to be placed in a sports car - or else the owners will be afraid to actually drive hard and have fun and start bitching the car is boring.
Cutting the z some slack. Nissan did what they could with what they had. With that they were able to offer a 2 seat performance car at an affordable price. Doing this allowed them to not only have an offering in the segment but also for it to be a profitable one. It has given them the opportunity to continue to have a sports car ooffering at a rate that no other Japanese company has been able to match.
And frankly, right now, I think the 370z is one of the best performance cars on the market.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 21, 2014, 05:42:24 PM
That too, this thing will eventually carry babies
I super duper highly maximum recommend you take a car seat when you do test driving. An infant seat. They barely fit in big cars sometimes, little cars can be crazy tough.
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 22, 2014, 07:52:34 PM
+1 to Cougs
lol r0tor, you argue like a goddamn elementary school kid. come on, dude. you can do better than that
I dunno, what he's said is pretty damn spot on. Sporty's all over the place regarding what he considers fun and constantly just flip flops on what he wants.
And hell yeah I'd love to rev the shit out of a rotary on a daily basis. And, you don't even need to remotely "rev the piss" out of an RX8 or S2000 to keep up with traffic. Sporty makes those cars sound like my Volvo 240 or 4Runner where you actually have to rev the shit out of the car and pray you don't get run over by traffic.
Quote from: 68_427 on October 22, 2014, 07:17:18 PM
Neither are sports cars
Right? Raza?
Raza doesn't get to decide shit. Fuck that guy.
lol VQ sucks in a "sports" car - Jesus what is this place
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 22, 2014, 07:47:33 PM
No doubt the LFA was something special for Toyota but it didn't break any new ground on the world stage. Still an impressive car though.
Sure it broke ground - the carbon fiber wire loom tech in some of the body parts was outta this world. Add to that but a ~3,500 lb curb weight and an engine note that can only be challenged by the Carrera GT.
Subaru STI
[/subaru Trollage]
In all seriousness, has a decent backseat and if you don't want to go that gonzo just "settle" for a WRX.
Buy new though, used ones have probably been thrashed on. :lol:
I'd take a VQ over my N series engine. The engine now is a lot better than it was in 2004, and is still a fantastic engine: Light, powerful, and reliable.
Quote from: MrH on October 22, 2014, 07:59:16 PM
:lol:
The car with the custom carbon fiber looms just to make the A-pillars is too heavy. I laughed too.
Whats the point of a carbon fiber A-pillar on a 3500 lb 2 seater with
- RWD
- no turbos
- no hybrid tech
Lamborghini builds a V10 sports car with no fancy loomed carbon fiber and AWD that weighs ~200-300lb less
and costs half the price. Dodge makes a V10 RWD sports car that's just as capable, if not more, than the LFA at 1/4 the price. No, the LFA is overweight, overpriced and is not the best sports car to come out of Japan.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 23, 2014, 06:48:01 AM
Whats the point of a carbon fiber A-pillar on a 3500 lb 2 seater with
- RWD
- no turbos
- no hybrid tech
Lamborghini builds a V10 sports car with no fancy loomed carbon fiber and AWD that weighs ~200-300lb less and costs half the price. Dodge makes a V10 RWD sports car that's just as capable, if not more, than the LFA at 1/4 the price. No, the LFA is overweight, overpriced and is not the best sports car to come out of Japan.
Lamborghini is an over styled fashion brand like VW. Fuck them.
This isn't an argument -the VQ was and still is fantastic, easily still the best mass produced 6 on the market.
Quote from: r0tor on October 22, 2014, 08:04:36 PM
Why put effort into it?
We are talking about an engine powering a sports car (isn't the engine like the heart of a sports car) that is being praised by the same person who says his car is boring to drive, guzzles gas, burns oil and wants to replace it with a fwd turbo econocrap. I fail to see a reason to even try to be remotely serious.
When have I said my car is boring to drive? That was a strawman created by the El Camino dude. And yea, my car does guzzle gas and burn a little oil... it's still fun to drive though. You seem to think that acknowledging the fault of any car = hating it, which is what makes calling out the horrible gas/performance value quotient of your car out so enjoyable.
Quote from: thecarnut on October 23, 2014, 06:23:00 AM
I dunno, what he's said is pretty damn spot on. Sporty's all over the place regarding what he considers fun and constantly just flip flops on what he wants.
And hell yeah I'd love to rev the shit out of a rotary on a daily basis. And, you don't even need to remotely "rev the piss" out of an RX8 or S2000 to keep up with traffic. Sporty makes those cars sound like my Volvo 240 or 4Runner where you actually have to rev the shit out of the car and pray you don't get run over by traffic.
The logic is pretty simple dude. I drive 70-80 miles a day. When bought the Z I was working from home and did not plan on getting a job that would be so far away. The gas mileage and road noise are driving me nuts and draining my wallet. It also sucks that when me and wifey go out with friends, we have to drive her car. The parameters of what I need for a car have changed significantly since I bought the Z.
I still enjoy driving it and it is not boring to drive. But it's not a good fit for the amount and kind of driving I do with it. What's "all over the place" about that?
And like I said, I have logged a good amount of miles in an S2000. My H22 Accord had way more punch on the low cam (and my friend who owned the S2K agreed, even though the S2K walked on it on the highway). Yea the "cant keep up with traffic" thing was a little hyperbolic but the point is those high RPM cars are a lot slower on the street than their specs suggest... and their magazine performance times are only attainable nuking the clutch. I get the whole "handling over everything else" design philosophy but to me that shit doesn't make sense on the street. I have done the "revving cars everywhere" thing already, and I have a motorcycle. I don't want a wind up car anymore.
Quote from: Char on October 23, 2014, 06:54:49 AM
Lamborghini is an over styled fashion brand like VW. Fuck them.
This isn't an argument -the VQ was and still is fantastic, easily still the best mass produced 6 on the market.
You are having a convo with yourself...
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 22, 2014, 01:08:05 PM
Corvette gas mileage, Civic straight line performance.... b-b-b-but it handles really well
I like the RX-8.
It really reminds me of a RWD Civic Si. It's not fast, but everything about the motor and trans is easy and free.
Quote from: Char on October 23, 2014, 06:54:49 AM
Lamborghini is an over styled fashion brand like VW. Fuck them.
This isn't an argument -the VQ was and still is fantastic, easily still the best mass produced 6 on the market.
The VQ is a lazy motor.
Quote from: Char on October 23, 2014, 06:54:49 AM
Lamborghini is an over styled fashion brand like VW. Fuck them.
This isn't an argument -the VQ was and still is fantastic, easily still the best mass produced 6 on the market.
Wouldn't go that far with the VQ. I'd only go so far as to say unique - much more of a muscle car/muscular flavor to it - works very well for the G. The Germans can't make a decent N/A V6 to save their schnitzel, and the domestics have struggled too although the GM 3.6L is good. The Toyota and Honda V6s are at least just as good as the VQ, and the Honda creams the VQ when it comes to NVH (if that's what a person wants, I actually prefer the VQ's nature).
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 23, 2014, 06:48:01 AM
Whats the point of a carbon fiber A-pillar on a 3500 lb 2 seater with
- RWD
- no turbos
- no hybrid tech
Lamborghini builds a V10 sports car with no fancy loomed carbon fiber and AWD that weighs ~200-300lb less and costs half the price. Dodge makes a V10 RWD sports car that's just as capable, if not more, than the LFA at 1/4 the price. No, the LFA is overweight, overpriced and is not the best sports car to come out of Japan.
Yes, a ridiculously quick revving, 9000 rpm redlining V10, carbon fiber everything, 3200 lb curb weight and tons of luxury and tech makes for a really shitty car.
Give me a 20 year old Honda with a backyard hack job engine swap any day.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 23, 2014, 06:48:01 AM
Whats the point of a carbon fiber A-pillar on a 3500 lb 2 seater with
- RWD
- no turbos
- no hybrid tech
Lamborghini builds a V10 sports car with no fancy loomed carbon fiber and AWD that weighs ~200-300lb less and costs half the price. Dodge makes a V10 RWD sports car that's just as capable, if not more, than the LFA at 1/4 the price. No, the LFA is overweight, overpriced and is not the best sports car to come out of Japan.
A mag racer like yourself has to admit a lot of it is how things look/sound/feel and turbos and hybrid tech suck the soul out of such things.
The LF-A is in the same category as the Ford GT and Carerra GT - it's a stone's throw from being a bespoke super car from a company that typically doesn't build a super car - and each was a league above their contemporaries in the intangibles even if each wasn't an absolute top performer.
The only Japanese challenge to the LF-A is the 2000 GT or (BIG) perhaps the 240Z.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 23, 2014, 08:44:36 AM
So what does this mean?
It means he's trying to troll me and failing. The VQ still makes more power than the other V6s on the market, the gap only gets larger when we take modifications into consideration. Honda's engines are nice but still use a timing belt and don't produce VQ numbers -the N52 is all but gone, so no use talking about them and GM's 3.6 is weak. Seriously, look up a dyno for the 3.6 or a 3.7 Ford, the VQ still walks circles around them.
Quote from: Char on October 23, 2014, 09:12:16 AM
It means he's trying to troll me and failing. The VQ still makes more power than the other V6s on the market, the gap only gets larger when we take modifications into consideration. Honda's engines are nice but still use a timing belt and don't produce VQ numbers -the N52 is all but gone, so no use talking about them and GM's 3.6 is weak. Seriously, look up a dyno for the 3.6 or a 3.7 Ford, the VQ still walks circles around them.
The VQ's issue is its performance doesn't quite live up to its hp, so "most" hp is a hollow victory. A new V6 Camcord will give a G37/Q50 a very good run.
Part of this is its 7,600 rpm red line. Gearing and tranny performance has to be top notch to eek out the advantage but Nissan hasn't quite delivered here (esp. the 7sp AT in the Infiniti cars).
The GM 3.6L in top tune is a good performer - 320 -325 hp, phenomenal you can get this in a $24k car (Camaro). Ford and Dodge have trailed GM for some time in N/A engine performance so nothing new, plus, they don't have a premium brand to foster development of such an engine, so comparison vs. the (3.7) VQ is unfair.
You can get the VQ in a lowly Altima. It's as much a Nissan engine as it is an Infiniti engine.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 23, 2014, 09:44:02 AM
The VQ's issue is its performance doesn't quite live up to its hp, so "most" hp is a hollow victory. A new V6 Camcord will give a G37/Q50 a very good run.
Part of this is its 7,600 rpm red line. Gearing and tranny performance has to be top notch to eek out the advantage but Nissan hasn't quite delivered here (esp. the 7sp AT in the Infiniti cars).
The GM 3.6L in top tune is a good performer - 320 -325 hp, phenomenal you can get this in a $24k car (Camaro). Ford and Dodge have trailed GM for some time in N/A engine performance so nothing new, plus, they don't have a premium brand to foster development of such an engine, so comparison vs. the (3.7) VQ is unfair.
What?
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1007_2011_cadillac_cts_coupe_2010_infiniti_g37_coupe_comparison/specs.html (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1007_2011_cadillac_cts_coupe_2010_infiniti_g37_coupe_comparison/specs.html)
5mph faster through the 1/4 mile.
Literally just as quick as the 335I, faster than the ATS with lighter weight and similar power
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/road-tests/the-comparison-65-3-roa1013-5 (http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/road-tests/the-comparison-65-3-roa1013-5)
More power, more weight and still 3mph faster than the Genesis coupe
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/data/3b83e46b9dabe224815f3e943ee113cd.pdf (http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/data/3b83e46b9dabe224815f3e943ee113cd.pdf)
Oh, and in all those tests, it was at the top, or near the top in fuel economy too. The VQ is a fucking boss motor, the rest of the Auto industry should be making them under lease from Nissan and just stop making their own.
Say what? The 335i was plainly quicker and has always been quicker vs. the G37 - no one can rationally argue otherwise, even if the 335i (and all BMWs really) have major reliability issues.
That Genesis coupe had the old motor - the new(er) 348 hp 3.8L is a quicker car and costs WAY less than the G37 coupe (http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/genesis-coupe/2013/road-test.html).
The ATS is hamstrung by an old 6sp AT - the Infiniti 7sp with all its faults is into 3rd gear by 60 mph.
The VQ is okay but it's a bit course and needs proper gearing in highest tune (would hugely benefit from DSG) for maximum performance.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 23, 2014, 10:55:17 AM
Say what? The 335i was plainly quicker and has always been quicker vs. the G37 - no one can rationally argue otherwise, even if the 335i (and all BMWs really) have major reliability issues.
That Genesis coupe had the old motor - the new(er) 348 hp 3.8L is a quicker car and costs WAY less than the G37 coupe (http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/genesis-coupe/2013/road-test.html).
The ATS is hamstrung by an old 6sp AT - the Infiniti 7sp with all its faults is into 3rd gear by 60 mph.
The VQ is okay but it's a bit course and needs proper gearing in highest tune (would hugely benefit from DSG) for maximum performance.
So the updated Genesis coupe with more power and less weight is still marginal quicker than a G37, and there is a problem with the VQ because of this?
You know you're wrong when you get Cougs arguing against the G37/VQ
Quote from: GoCougs on October 23, 2014, 09:44:02 AM
The VQ's issue is its performance doesn't quite live up to its hp, so "most" hp is a hollow victory. A new V6 Camcord will give a G37/Q50 a very good run.
Part of this is its 7,600 rpm red line. Gearing and tranny performance has to be top notch to eek out the advantage but Nissan hasn't quite delivered here (esp. the 7sp AT in the Infiniti cars).
The problem isn't the VQ not living up to it's rating, it's the transmission's gearing after 2nd gear. The gap between 2 and 3 is huge.
Quote from: Char on October 23, 2014, 11:03:48 AM
So the updated Genesis coupe with more power and less weight is still marginal quicker than a G37, and there is a problem with the VQ because of this?
Marginal? That Genesis ran 13.5 sec. 1/4 mile and sub 5.0 sec 0-60, and even then they complained about some goofy fuel cut off.
Doesn't say there's a problem with the VQ - just your "data" collection is off (you either cherry picked the older car or were unaware of the 348 hp version) and that the Genesis is both more powerful and quicker.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 23, 2014, 11:13:23 AM
The problem isn't the VQ not living up to it's rating, it's the transmission's gearing after 2nd gear. The gap between 2 and 3 is huge.
In the 7 speed? That's odd.
Quote from: hotrodalex on October 23, 2014, 11:07:27 AM
You know you're wrong when you get Cougs arguing against the G37/VQ
Not arguing against it - I've just never bought into the notion of VQ superiority.
Quote from: hotrodalex on October 23, 2014, 11:16:15 AM
In the 7 speed? That's odd.
Yup. 1 and 2 are pretty short, and then 3 is fairly tall. You can feel the acceleration drop off when it shifts into 3rd.
Do you need 3rd to reach 60?
Yes.
Also, shifts are a bit lazy and power braking actually hurts (I think there must be some sort of throttle cut if on the brake and gas at the same time - could also be owing to how the AWD system works).
Best acceleration times are achieved by just mashing the gas and holding on. If you power brake, it has a sluggish launch.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 23, 2014, 11:14:33 AM
Marginal? That Genesis ran 13.5 sec. 1/4 mile and sub 5.0 sec 0-60, and even then they complained about some goofy fuel cut off.
Doesn't say there's a problem with the VQ - just your "data" collection is off (you either cherry picked the older car or were unaware of the 348 hp version) and that the Genesis is both more powerful and quicker.
Except, not really. The next followup test, the Genesis coupe put up numbers that are just on par with the G37
http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/genesis-coupe/2013/comparison-test.html (http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/genesis-coupe/2013/comparison-test.html)
Essentially, you'll need something with more power and lighter just to match it (335i/Gen coupe) I really can't see any VQ out there that matches it right now.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 23, 2014, 08:44:36 AM
So what does this mean?
I don't like the character of the motor... :huh:
Quote from: SVT666 on October 23, 2014, 11:21:45 AM
Yup. 1 and 2 are pretty short, and then 3 is fairly tall. You can feel the acceleration drop off when it shifts into 3rd.
You mean the acceleration drops off as speed increases? What kind of sorcery is this?! :lol:
Quote from: Char on October 23, 2014, 12:10:13 PM
Except, not really. The next followup test, the Genesis coupe put up numbers that are just on par with the G37
http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/genesis-coupe/2013/comparison-test.html (http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/genesis-coupe/2013/comparison-test.html)
Essentially, you'll need something with more power and lighter just to match it (335i/Gen coupe) I really can't see any VQ out there that matches it right now.
So, in other words, the Genesis Coupe is still faster and still has notably more power than the G37.
335i in its lowest rated tune (300 hp) is still notably quicker than the G37.
I think your 'SPINning would be more pleasurable if you were better at mag racing.
Gear spacing on the G37 7AT is a definite problem - gears 3-5 are way too tall. Not sure what they were thinking - could be a notably quicker car with sane gearing - doubly so if you could launch it.
I like how this thread went over the last page and a half. Lot of good plot twists and turns.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 23, 2014, 11:18:59 AM
Not arguing against it - I've just never bought into the notion of VQ superiority.
What are you talking about? You literally bought into the notion of VQ superiority
Just kidding (kind of)
Quote from: MrH on October 23, 2014, 12:30:44 PM
You mean the acceleration drops off as speed increases? What kind of sorcery is this?! :lol:
It's a very noticeable drop off when it shifts into 3rd gear. Stop being such a dick.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 23, 2014, 02:39:42 PM
It's a very noticeable drop off when it shifts into 3rd gear. Stop being such a dick.
He just mad that if he shifted into 3rd he could dead because no torx
G4ED has a wonderfully flat torque plateau ( can't even call it a curve). Someone needs to put two together in some kind of V formation... 220 HP 3.2L V8.
Torque.
(http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/222034/original/dynosheet0002.JPG)
1989 Taurus SHO. :rockon:
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on October 23, 2014, 03:26:12 PM
Torque.
(http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/222034/original/dynosheet0002.JPG)
1989 Taurus SHO. :rockon:
That was an amazing motor....too bad about the rest of the car.
Quote from: 2o6 on October 23, 2014, 12:12:07 PM
I don't like the character of the motor... :huh:
It could gain 50hp and still suck in a sports car because it hates to rev and sounds terrible.
It hates to rev? News to me.
(https://averyteoda.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/you-dont-say.jpg)
@the last two pages.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 23, 2014, 04:40:48 PM
It hates to rev? News to me.
Que? The VQ isn't the most eager of motors out there. That's why I said it was pretty lazy....
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 23, 2014, 02:10:36 PM
What are you talking about? You literally bought into the notion of VQ superiority
Just kidding (kind of)
Not at all - I've always called the VQ a bit of a gruff lump and stated upon purchase that the Honda J-series V6 I had in the Accord was way ahead in NVH.
Quote from: r0tor on October 23, 2014, 04:20:07 PM
It could gain 50hp and still suck in a sports car because it hates to rev and sounds terrible.
Quote from: 2o6 on October 23, 2014, 05:19:40 PM
Que? The VQ isn't the most eager of motors out there. That's why I said it was pretty lazy....
This is not logical.
First, many engines these days have their rev/throttle response limited when not in gear (and red line - the G and Accord will only rev to ~5,000 rpm when not in gear) to protect accessories and the like.
Second, the VQ has to rev quick - first gear is over by 28 mph at 7,600 rpm - not too many first gears will come and go as quickly as the G37 7AT.
This place would make a great graphic novel series.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 23, 2014, 06:13:56 PM
This is not logical.
First, many engines these days have their rev/throttle response limited when not in gear (and red line - the G and Accord will only rev to ~5,000 rpm when not in gear) to protect accessories and the like.
Second, the VQ has to rev quick - first gear is over by 28 mph at 7,600 rpm - not too many first gears will come and go as quickly as the G37 7AT.
Your saying in one post that indeed its NVH sucks (especially as you rev it up) and then here claim its a rev happy engine... WTF????
Quote from: r0tor on October 24, 2014, 09:22:31 AM
Your saying in one post that indeed its NVH sucks (especially as you rev it up) and then here claim its a rev happy engine... WTF????
I didn't use the term "rev happy" nor "NVH sucks" so I don't know what's going on. All I know is the VQ (in 3.7L guise) revs to 7,600 rpm straight outta the factory and is happy doing it all day.
Quote from: r0tor on October 24, 2014, 09:22:31 AM
Your saying in one post that indeed its NVH sucks (especially as you rev it up) and then here claim its a rev happy engine... WTF????
Are you OK dude? Seriously, I'm starting to worry about you.
And it's totally possible for an engine to be both rev happy and have bad NVH (i.e. uncorked DOHC VTEC motor) or the opposite (any big luxury car V8-TT)
"Rev happy" implies that it revs "happily" which implies its "happy" when it is "redlined" which implies it doesn't sound or feel like its about to blow up.
When such individual drives a rev happy engine, they tend to rev the piss out of it not only while trying the quickly accelerate, but also just putting around because its fun. The owner of a car with NVH issues will probably not drive with his engine sounding or feeling like its about to explode just for fun casual driving.
Don't do this.
Quote from: r0tor on October 24, 2014, 11:54:24 AM
"Rev happy" implies that it revs "happily" which implies its "happy" when it is "redlined" which implies it doesn't sound or feel like its about to blow up.
When such individual drives a rev happy engine, they tend to rev the piss out of it not only while trying the quickly accelerate, but also just putting around because its fun. The owner of a car with NVH issues will probably not drive with his engine sounding or feeling like its about to explode just for fun casual driving.
Why are you so bad at this :banghead:
Quote from: r0tor on October 24, 2014, 11:54:24 AM
"Rev happy" implies that it revs "happily" which implies its "happy" when it is "redlined" which implies it doesn't sound or feel like its about to blow up.
When such individual drives a rev happy engine, they tend to rev the piss out of it not only while trying the quickly accelerate, but also just putting around because its fun. The owner of a car with NVH issues will probably not drive with his engine sounding or feeling like its about to explode just for fun casual driving.
:facepalm:
This thread went full retard.
Quote from: Char on October 24, 2014, 01:58:43 PM
This thread went full retard.
No, thread went full retard when Mr H suggested a Miata that was older and as expensive as my Z, and Raza suggested a TT convertible
This forum in general is pretty tardy, in a weird "everyone should know better" way, but you guys are my tards and I am not sure I could have it any other way
Get an old 911
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 24, 2014, 02:14:31 PM
No, thread went full retard when Mr H suggested a Miata that was older and as expensive as my Z, and Raza suggested a TT convertible
This forum in general is pretty tardy, in a weird "everyone should know better" way, but you guys are my tards and I am not sure I could have it any other way
Char is also you tard? You guys buddies now?
Quote from: thecarnut on October 24, 2014, 02:15:34 PM
Char is also you tard? You guys buddies now?
No, Im just keeping him at a safe distance
Every regular poster contributes to the SPIN experience though, good or bad.
Build a sick Fox body
Quote from: 68_427 on October 24, 2014, 02:32:41 PM
Build a sick Fox body
TBH I might do that sometime... Road racing Fox. Would just need a roll cage to help the wet noodle chassis.
http://www.sucksqueezebangblow.co/2013/02/project-top-notch.html (http://www.sucksqueezebangblow.co/2013/02/project-top-notch.html)
Quote from: hotrodalex on October 24, 2014, 02:44:04 PM
TBH I might do that sometime... Road racing Fox. Would just need a roll cage to help the wet noodle chassis.
U mite as well build a tube chassis and tack weld Fox Body parts onto it.
And you guys wonder why we don't get any new members.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 23, 2014, 04:01:04 PM
That was an amazing motor....too bad about the rest of the car.
Naaah, the exterior made the hood open even more amazing. :lol:
Plus not many largish cars came with a stickshift. :rockon:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 24, 2014, 03:14:15 PM
And you guys wonder why we don't get any new members.
y dat??????????????????????????????????
Didn't know the Fiesta could run on regular fuel. That's impressive. Savings just went that much higher.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 26, 2014, 12:15:09 PM
Didn't know the Fiesta could run on regular fuel. That's impressive. Savings just went that much higher.
Fuck yeah, it just tunes it back a bit, maybe no overboost
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 24, 2014, 03:14:15 PM
And you guys wonder why we don't get any new members.
Cougs' epic internetry?
Char's polite and friendly analysis of VWAG?
BenzBoys political commentary?
Our mostly white & suburban perspective of minorities?
My dashing good looks?
Quote from: Submariner on October 26, 2014, 04:12:14 PM
Cougs' epic internetry?
Char's polite and friendly analysis of VWAG?
BenzBoys political commentary?
Our mostly white & suburban perspective of minorities?
My dashing good looks?
:lol:
Updated ILX
(http://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/640x640/80-10731717_708507032572556_486391875_n_79531c714fe635919f0f854831b2368ff921aa13.jpg)
Highlights:
- New powertrain, likely replacing both current powertrains...looking like the TLX's 206hp K24 Earth Dreams I4 with 8 DCT and likely a 6 spd manual
- Restyled exterior
- Upgraded interior
- More "performance focused" - i.e. more powerful engine more than likely, possibly better wheel/tire combo with 6spd manual available
- Possible available AWD (SH-AWD? Would be expensive on such a "cheap" car)
I am feeling like the ILX is going to be Honda's means of debuting their new 2.0T. SH-AWD and stickshift/DCT would give it a lot of latitude against the likes of the 2 series and CLA. Corporate LED headlights are a nice touch too. Hoping they can keep the price downish but all that fun hardware will probably push it out of my price range. Might knock a couple thousand off the current model though which I still don't quite hate.
SH-AWD wouldn't necessarily have to be super expensive. It only costs $2000 on the TLX. This is kind of exciting.
If they can make the 2.0T in FWD form for <$30K I might have to give the new one a look. Remember the TLX starts at $31K so this thing can't get too pricey.
SH-AWD is the best thing they've got going too. It's really cool tech. Tiny packaging, ability to shift torque quicker and in larger percentages than most systems too. I think they're finally on the right path of moving towards AWD on everything. They'll basically be like a high end subaru, which I think there's a big market for.
Quote from: MrH on October 31, 2014, 07:22:34 AM
They'll basically be like a high end subaru, which I think there's a big market for.
So.... Audi?
With the higher HP most cars are carrying, AWD makes super-huge sense. Just my 220ish Sienna used to spin tires from stop signs if it was moist or sandy.
Most of these AWD systems Front biased, which the majority of drivers are used to, and it prevents oversteer in the rain and whatnot..
Quote from: thecarnut on October 31, 2014, 08:02:02 AM
So.... Audi?
No, Subaru is reliable, efficient, relatively high value
SH-AWD is very cool tech. I don't like AWD, but if the ILX comes with SH-AWD and the 2.0T, and the penalty isn't too big (TLX only adds 150lbs and loses 3 highway MPG with SH-AWD on the V6), AND the price is right, maybe. Fiesta ST is looking much more realistic though, at least in the short term
Quote from: thecarnut on October 31, 2014, 08:02:02 AM
So.... Audi?
Without the unreliable bullshit and German option pricing.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 23, 2014, 12:33:37 PM
335i in its lowest rated tune (300 hp) is still notably quicker than the G37.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/data/CT_2010-Acura-TL-SH-AWD-Tech-HPT-vs-2010-Audi-S4-Quattro-vs-2010-BMW-335i-vs-2010-Infiniti-G37S-Sport_data.pdf (http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/data/CT_2010-Acura-TL-SH-AWD-Tech-HPT-vs-2010-Audi-S4-Quattro-vs-2010-BMW-335i-vs-2010-Infiniti-G37S-Sport_data.pdf)
The BMW with bigger tires, more torque and 100 pounds less weight launches better, and gets to 60 in 0.4 seconds faster. But through the quarter mile the cars trap just 0.1mph different, 105.7 vs 105.6 By 110 MPH the G37 has started to reel in the BMW, with just 0.2 seconds between the two, and by 120 the G37 is just 0.1 seconds behind the BMW.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 31, 2014, 06:23:09 AM
I am feeling like the ILX is going to be Honda's means of debuting their new 2.0T. SH-AWD and stickshift/DCT would give it a lot of latitude against the likes of the 2 series and CLA. Corporate LED headlights are a nice touch too. Hoping they can keep the price downish but all that fun hardware will probably push it out of my price range. Might knock a couple thousand off the current model though which I still don't quite hate.
SH-AWD wouldn't necessarily have to be super expensive. It only costs $2000 on the TLX. This is kind of exciting.
If they can make the 2.0T in FWD form for <$30K I might have to give the new one a look. Remember the TLX starts at $31K so this thing can't get too pricey.
I honestly doubt it'll get SH or the turbo. It'll probably get the TLX powertrain and lose the manual, a nicer interior, and an upgraded Earth Dreams base motor but nothing overly sporty since Honda is still confused on what exactly it wants Acura to be.
Quote from: 565 on November 01, 2014, 09:31:11 AM
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/data/CT_2010-Acura-TL-SH-AWD-Tech-HPT-vs-2010-Audi-S4-Quattro-vs-2010-BMW-335i-vs-2010-Infiniti-G37S-Sport_data.pdf (http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/data/CT_2010-Acura-TL-SH-AWD-Tech-HPT-vs-2010-Audi-S4-Quattro-vs-2010-BMW-335i-vs-2010-Infiniti-G37S-Sport_data.pdf)
The BMW with bigger tires, more torque and 100 pounds less weight launches better, and gets to 60 in 0.4 seconds faster. But through the quarter mile the cars trap just 0.1mph different, 105.7 vs 105.6 By 110 MPH the G37 has started to reel in the BMW, with just 0.2 seconds between the two, and by 120 the G37 is just 0.1 seconds behind the BMW.
Test notes state both cars, after practice, could be launched with minimal wheel spin, which is backed up by the fact that they were tied 0-40 mph.
The BMW has a gear change at 105 mph, so either they held the gear or went for a gear change right near the finish line; either will impact trap speed.
The BMW has a much taller 4th gear, and aero is a major factor after ~100 mph.
The G37 is the funner, better looking and more reliable car, but it's just not as quick.
Quote from: Xer0 on November 01, 2014, 10:54:32 AM
I honestly doubt it'll get SH or the turbo. It'll probably get the TLX powertrain and lose the manual, a nicer interior, and an upgraded Earth Dreams base motor but nothing overly sporty since Honda is still confused on what exactly it wants Acura to be.
This is probably the more realistic outcome, but to be fair, sporty doesn't sell like it used to. Word to Cadillac
ILX is still behind in performance on non-sporty cars like the CLA though. There is no reason for Honda to be so behind.
I am still holding out hope that Honda makes a competitive sporty option for the ILX. Who knows... with the 2.0T and SH-AWD it might still be fun even with just the DCT
C&D reviewed the 3 2.5 6MT
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-mazda-3-25l-manual-hatch-tested-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-mazda-3-25l-manual-hatch-tested-review)
Tough call
$23K, Fiesta comes with navi, is faster above 60 MPH, 200lbs lighter and super fun to drive. Also "dude I can chip it bro"... $500 reflash and it will be damn near as fast as the Z in a straight line. Stock though top gear 30-50 & 50-70 times are a good 2-3 seconds faster. Fiesta is def a faster car which is important to me.
3s has a much bigger back seat and I imagine better materials and overall refinement though. Also much much less of a backwards baseball cap car.
I feel like the new MS3 will be the best blend of both... I have time. Interesting stuff though. Wish the 3s made like 200 HP even, would be more compelling
We're buying a 2015 Mazda3 GT as soon as we sell the Infiniti.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 05, 2014, 09:05:59 AM
We're buying a 2015 Mazda3 GT as soon as we sell the Infiniti.
Wow, really? That impressed with the Mazda? I gotta ask...why? Gas mileage?
Quote from: SVT666 on November 05, 2014, 09:05:59 AM
We're buying a 2015 Mazda3 GT as soon as we sell the Infiniti.
Have u driven it? What do u like/dislike about it compared to the Infiniti? How is the road noise?
I drove one with the AT and liked it a lot. Great interior, controlled chassis, and decent low end torque.
Quote from: Laconian on November 05, 2014, 09:43:17 AM
I drove one with the AT and liked it a lot. Great interior, controlled chassis, and decent low end torque.
What made you go for the Outback instead? Just needed the extra room?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 05, 2014, 09:36:07 AM
Have u driven it? What do u like/dislike about it compared to the Infiniti? How is the road noise?
Pros:
- Ride and Handling: It's as good as the G37, but it's lighter and more nimble.
- Steering: I would say it's just as good as the G despite being electric.
- Transmission: The automatic transmission is brilliant compared to the G (but that's not hard)
- Road noise: Much more subdued than the G. It doesn't have an economy car sound to it at all.
- HUD: Very cool tech. Not as cool as GM's, but still cool.
- Interior materials: The 3 feels far more expensive than it is. The materials (most, but not all) are probably better than the G.
- Seats: The seats are more comfortable than the G and they look fantastic in the white leather.
- Engine: Fuel economy is out of this world, and since we put over $7000 worth of premium fuel in the G last year, this matters. The 185 hp feels strong and is far less buzzy than the base engine.
- Back Seat: Far roomier than the Focus and on par with the G.
-Trunk: If it's not bigger than the G's, it sure looks bigger.
Cons:
- Infotainment System: The screen looks ridiculous. Like someone took a Nexus 7 and glued it to the dash.
- Engine: It is a little buzzy and really lacks the power of the G37, but it's still quick and the fuel economy makes up for it.
- Transmission: No paddles.
I think the Mazda 3's interior is just too tight for the price point.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 05, 2014, 12:27:56 PM
I think the Mazda 3's interior is just too tight for the price point.
Are you trolling?
It's back of the pack, objectively. Pretty much everything in the class is bigger. I mean, look at those proportions...
I'd probably be able to live with it, but a lot of subcompact cars best it in interior space. Interior space is important to me.
Far better than the Focus is not hard to do. I hate driving the focus because it feels so claustrophobic.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 05, 2014, 01:01:40 PM
It's back of the pack, objectively. Pretty much everything in the class is bigger. I mean, look at those proportions...
I'd probably be able to live with it, but a lot of subcompact cars best it in interior space. Interior space is important to me.
Isnt your Echo a coupe? Also you are a single guy, what do you need a huge back seat for, car sex?
3's rear seat is smaller than, for example, the Corolla's, but it's pretty much on par with or bigger than the rest of the class, even with head room. More leg room than the Elantra, Golf, Cruze, etc. 3 has more rear leg room than my Accords did, and I did road trips with 4 grown passengers in that. Not far off from my old Maximas for combined front + rear legroom either. Unless the 3's rear seat has some weird shapes in real life Im calling shenanigans on it being "cramped". Plus in any case these are "compact" cars.... a "medium" size car is not much more expensive and significantly (damn near excessively IMO) roomier. I prefer a smaller interior... if I can sit behind myself in comfort I am good. Huge interiors sacrifice too much IMO.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 05, 2014, 12:12:24 PM
Pros:
- Ride and Handling: It's as good as the G37, but it's lighter and more nimble.
- Steering: I would say it's just as good as the G despite being electric.
- Transmission: The automatic transmission is brilliant compared to the G (but that's not hard)
- Road noise: Much more subdued than the G. It doesn't have an economy car sound to it at all.
- HUD: Very cool tech. Not as cool as GM's, but still cool.
- Interior materials: The 3 feels far more expensive than it is. The materials (most, but not all) are probably better than the G.
- Seats: The seats are more comfortable than the G and they look fantastic in the white leather.
- Engine: Fuel economy is out of this world, and since we put over $7000 worth of premium fuel in the G last year, this matters. The 185 hp feels strong and is far less buzzy than the base engine.
- Back Seat: Far roomier than the Focus and on par with the G.
-Trunk: If it's not bigger than the G's, it sure looks bigger.
Cons:
- Infotainment System: The screen looks ridiculous. Like someone took a Nexus 7 and glued it to the dash.
- Engine: It is a little buzzy and really lacks the power of the G37, but it's still quick and the fuel economy makes up for it.
- Transmission: No paddles.
This complicates things. Coming from a G and saying this thing has adequate power... along with the nice chassis.... this is not easy
This vs the Fiesta ST is pretty tough... as packages they are evenly matched but with different emphases
3 is def compelling though as an all around package though... Fiesta has to be really fun to drive to make up for practical shortcomings
I have to drive both
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 05, 2014, 02:05:32 PM
Isnt your Echo a coupe? Also you are a single guy, what do you need a huge back seat for, car sex?
3's rear seat is smaller than, for example, the Corolla's, but it's pretty much on par with or bigger than the rest of the class, even with head room. More leg room than the Elantra, Golf, Cruze, etc. 3 has more rear leg room than my Accords did, and I did road trips with 4 grown passengers in that. Not far off from my old Maximas for combined front + rear legroom either. Unless the 3's rear seat has some weird shapes in real life Im calling shenanigans on it being "cramped". Plus in any case these are "compact" cars.... a "medium" size car is not much more expensive and significantly (damn near excessively IMO) roomier. I prefer a smaller interior... if I can sit behind myself in comfort I am good. Huge interiors sacrifice too much IMO.
No, I get what he's saying entirely. My mom and my best friend/coworker both have brand new Mazda6's. I ride in one at least once a week. I think the back seat in those are cramped. I honestly don't like taking that car for road trips with my friend because the back seat is pretty tight.
I can't imagine the 3 is any better.
Quote from: MrH on November 05, 2014, 02:33:35 PM
No, I get what he's saying entirely. My mom and my best friend/coworker both have brand new Mazda6's. I ride in one at least once a week. I think the back seat in those are cramped. I honestly don't like taking that car for road trips with my friend because the back seat is pretty tight.
I can't imagine the 3 is any better.
The objections must be subjective then. Maybe it feels small because of the tapering greenhouse. By the numbers, from wheel base to combined legroom to shoulder room the 3 and 6 are the same as cars I've owned and consider to be roomy enough. Not cavernous but roomy enough for 4 grown adults.
I would take the Mazda3 2.5 over the Fiesta ST, even with the price difference.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 05, 2014, 02:05:32 PM
Isnt your Echo a coupe? Also you are a single guy, what do you need a huge back seat for, car sex?
3's rear seat is smaller than, for example, the Corolla's, but it's pretty much on par with or bigger than the rest of the class, even with head room. More leg room than the Elantra, Golf, Cruze, etc. 3 has more rear leg room than my Accords did, and I did road trips with 4 grown passengers in that. Not far off from my old Maximas for combined front + rear legroom either. Unless the 3's rear seat has some weird shapes in real life Im calling shenanigans on it being "cramped". Plus in any case these are "compact" cars.... a "medium" size car is not much more expensive and significantly (damn near excessively IMO) roomier. I prefer a smaller interior... if I can sit behind myself in comfort I am good. Huge interiors sacrifice too much IMO.
Thats a whole lot of bullshit to rationalize bad packaging.
The mazda 3's seat is small, it's awkwardly placed (too low) and my Yaris 2 door matches it despite being a vastly smaller car. The Mazda 3 is a cut down Mazda 6 and you can tell; they don't have the money to optimize things for the smaller car
Quote from: thecarnut on November 05, 2014, 03:09:38 PM
I would take the Mazda3 2.5 over the Fiesta ST, even with the price difference.
I've driven a new shape 2.0l
The fiesta is so much more entertaining
He needs to drive the two. This bench seat racing accomplishes nothing
Quote from: 2o6 on November 05, 2014, 03:12:29 PM
Thats a whole lot of bullshit to rationalize bad packaging.
The mazda 3's seat is small, it's awkwardly placed (too low) and my Yaris 2 door matches it despite being a vastly smaller car. The Mazda 3 is a cut down Mazda 6 and you can tell; they don't have the money to optimize things for the smaller car
Your Yaris also has a tiny engine and zero overhang. A Versa has a bigger back seat than a lot of midsize cars, its still a POS econocar. 3 being a cut down 6 is not a bad thing either... more refinement, better suspension, better engines, more equipment choice yadda yadda.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/a-new-acura-integra-just-wait-were-told/ (http://blog.caranddriver.com/a-new-acura-integra-just-wait-were-told/)
QuoteMarek said the company knows that it has a lot of rebuilding to do to restore Honda's luxury brand back to its 1990s heyday. Back then, the Integra was an attainable car for young enthusiasts and the core of its claim to performance credibility, while the NSX was an exotic aspirational flagship. Several Integras and NSXs were spotted at this year's SEMA show, even though they've both been out of production for years. A new NSX comes in 2015, but Marek said it'll be a few more flips of the calendar, at least not until 2017, before the plan results in a more affordable performance car for Acura showrooms.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 05, 2014, 03:12:29 PM
Thats a whole lot of bullshit to rationalize bad packaging.
The mazda 3's seat is small, it's awkwardly placed (too low) and my Yaris 2 door matches it despite being a vastly smaller car. The Mazda 3 is a cut down Mazda 6 and you can tell; they don't have the money to optimize things for the smaller car
Kevin, you're a really -different- kind of car enthusiast. You're priorities never match up with mine.
Hes gonna make a great small car designer one day
I'd take the Fiesta ST if my priority was a car to do light mods and frequent(meaning a dozen or more a year) autox car.
Otherwise I think the Mazda 3 is about the best car for the money out there. I'd buy one if I wasn't going to buy a miata.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 05, 2014, 01:01:40 PM
It's back of the pack, objectively. Pretty much everything in the class is bigger. I mean, look at those proportions...
I'd probably be able to live with it, but a lot of subcompact cars best it in interior space. Interior space is important to me.
A lot of subcompacts have more interior space? Exactly 0 subcompact segment cars have more total passenger space. Including cargo space (and there is where the 3 hatch falls short of all of the subcompact segment), there are only 2 that are larger inside: Versa Note and Fit.
As far as rear seat space, only the Versa Note is larger.
An no, your Yaris is not as large inside as the 3. Not by a longshot. In the passenger compartment, it matches (or exceeds) the 3 in headroom and only headroom. 2 inches less legroom both front and rear. 2.5 inches less shoulder room in the rear, nearly 5 inches less up front. The cargo area is a bit larger, but that's not remotely enough to overcome how much larger the passenger volume for the 3 is.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on November 05, 2014, 06:20:55 PM
I'd take the Fiesta ST if my priority was a car to do light mods and frequent(meaning a dozen or more a year) autox car.
Otherwise I think the Mazda 3 is about the best car for the money out there. I'd buy one if I wasn't going to buy a miata.
My commute now has a pretty lengthy stretch of 2 lane sweeping roads (probably about 15-20 miles) and I live about 50 miles from a decent track. I might not auto-X but I definitely get to enjoy the handling aspects of my bike/car damn near daily. I talk about needing a back seat and all that but it's been a few months since I've had passengers who weren't wifey. Plus I def do want to mod it (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/baseball-cap-smiley.gif) So IDK. Its a real toss up. If not for my inner bro the 3 would be a no brainer
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 05, 2014, 07:41:57 PM
My commute now has a pretty lengthy stretch of 2 lane sweeping roads (probably about 15-20 miles) and I live about 50 miles from a decent track. I might not auto-X but I definitely get to enjoy the handling aspects of my bike/car damn near daily. I talk about needing a back seat and all that but it's been a few months since I've had passengers who weren't wifey. Plus I def do want to mod it (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/baseball-cap-smiley.gif) So IDK. Its a real toss up. If not for my inner bro the 3 would be a no brainer
I still think a 3 with a few aftermarket suspension mods(cut coils, lowering blocks, disconnected sway bars, 8 inch drop, stretched 185's) would make the 3 just as much fun on the commute.
not a hatch buuuuuuttt
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/shawtiizpapii/mazda3flowwidee.jpg)
Quote from: 68_427 on November 05, 2014, 08:08:04 PM
not a hatch buuuuuuttt
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/shawtiizpapii/mazda3flowwidee.jpg)
Staggered wheels on FWD cars irk me......
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on November 05, 2014, 08:57:51 PM
Staggered wheels on FWD cars irk me......
Those aren't staggered.
Quote from: Char on November 13, 2014, 12:02:58 PM
Those aren't staggered.
They clearly are. Look at the size of the rear tires. The rear wheels are also concaved.....
It's hard to tell if the rear tires are wider or not, but the rear wheels are no more concave than the fronts.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on November 14, 2014, 12:57:03 AM
They clearly are. Look at the size of the rear tires. The rear wheels are also concaved.....
http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/2014-mazda-3-skyactiv-appearance-interior/40722-show-off-your-mazda-16.html (http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/2014-mazda-3-skyactiv-appearance-interior/40722-show-off-your-mazda-16.html)
http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/members/carbonsmoke.html (http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/members/carbonsmoke.html)
Apparently 19x8.5".
They didn't look staggered to me either, atleast from the design of the face.
Another Picture:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/carlifestyle/14267543118/in/photostream/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/carlifestyle/14267543118/in/photostream/)
Ok but those rears still look wider than the fronts! Maybe he has spacers on them so they'll sit flush with the lip?
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on November 14, 2014, 12:00:43 PM
Ok but those rears still look wider than the fronts! Maybe he has spacers on them so they'll sit flush with the lip?
The front track on FWD cars is usually wider.
If I end up in a FWD car, man will I miss that off the line traction. Drove wifey's car for the first time in weeks and I made it chirp off the line. Also saw a loaner RDX damn near smoke it off the line at a light earlier today. U have to pretty much do a 4K clutch dump to get the Z to break free and its a real joy to load up the rear outside tire with the gas in a corner. O well.
Expanding the search to GTIs and Civic Sis. They both get ~27-28 MPG combined in the real world. Fiesta is out, can't fit an infant seat behind an adult. Thats a shame
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2014, 01:37:05 PM
If I end up in a FWD car, man will I miss that off the line traction. Drove wifey's car for the first time in weeks and I made it chirp off the line. Also saw a loaner RDX damn near smoke it off the line at a light earlier today. U have to pretty much do a 4K clutch dump to get the Z to break free and its a real joy to load up the rear outside tire with the gas in a corner. O well.
Expanding the search to GTIs and Civic Sis. They both get ~27-28 MPG combined in the real world. Fiesta is out, can't fit an infant seat behind an adult. Thats a shame
Do you still have the Z?
Yea the Z is still going strong. Due for an oil change, actually didn't burn too much oil this go round.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2014, 01:37:05 PM
If I end up in a FWD car, man will I miss that off the line traction. Drove wifey's car for the first time in weeks and I made it chirp off the line. Also saw a loaner RDX damn near smoke it off the line at a light earlier today. U have to pretty much do a 4K clutch dump to get the Z to break free and its a real joy to load up the rear outside tire with the gas in a corner. O well.
Expanding the search to GTIs and Civic Sis. They both get ~27-28 MPG combined in the real world. Fiesta is out, can't fit an infant seat behind an adult. Thats a shame
So, are you saying that you're expecting a baby or just planning for the future?
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 17, 2014, 05:41:01 AM
So, are you saying that you're expecting a baby or just planning for the future?
Just planning for the future. When that time comes I will make a cryptic/offhand reference like I did about my engagement :lol: I am not sure how the timing will work as we are going to be buying the house next summer
Fuck............
(http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/products/dyno/20tfsi_trans_stage1_93_engine.gif)
APR Stage II
(http://jackidelecki.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/FIRE-2-GENERIC.jpg)
i lol'd
:lol:
(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/lol_idi_amin.gif)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2014, 01:37:05 PM
Fiesta is out, can't fit an infant seat behind an adult.
Most smaller cars you have to put the infant seat in the center of the rear seat.
Its a stretch with the Fiesta
Im shopping around for loans now. If BoA has a decent enough rate I will go with them, gonna talk to them Thursday about the car and a mortgage. I talked to them already but I think we are gonna put in for an application for pre-approval. Carmax has some decent GTIs and I think a few Focus STs but I'm not really crazy about the Focuses.
CarMax= the laziest car shopping imaginable
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 17, 2014, 02:31:37 PM
Fuck............
(http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/products/dyno/20tfsi_trans_stage1_93_engine.gif)
FUCK.
Is that on pump gas?
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on December 01, 2014, 05:00:33 PM
CarMax= the laziest car shopping imaginable
I earned it. Is car shopping supposed to be hard work?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 01, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
FUCK.
Is that on pump gas?
All day breh... just a tune. This would tear up my Z from a roll like a velociraptor childbirth
I thought velociraptors laid eggs. Might be pretty intense, though.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 02, 2014, 04:41:49 PM
I thought velociraptors laid eggs. Might be pretty intense, though.
The explosion will be yes. Sludge errwhere
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2014, 08:09:27 PM
I earned it. Is car shopping supposed to be hard work?
No but you could search the webz and find a better deal/ car....
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on December 03, 2014, 07:11:17 AM
No but you could search the webz and find a better deal/ car....
Not where I am for what I want. Only cars in abundance here is American crap
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 03, 2014, 09:29:01 AM
Not where I am for what I want. Only cars in abundance here is American crap
Wimmer heaven then.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 03, 2014, 11:04:27 AM
Wimmer heaven then.
Not quite, I assume the cars in Sporty's area are running and driving.
I believe wimmer prefers his "classic" american cars propped up with cinder blocks and arranged in rows for easy parts retrieval.
LOLOLOL
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 03, 2014, 09:29:01 AM
Not where I am for what I want. Only cars in abundance here is American crap
Do some ebaying, you'll find some cars Somewhere.
(when I lived in Clarksville, TN every now and again I would peruse CL and ebay for Bajas or whatever, the majority of Subarus were all in the Knoxville area.)
The money/time I would spend traveling could just be spent on buying what I want here
Especially considering I might go out to see a car and not buy it. No way eff that.
Had a weird dream and a moment. Dreamt that I bought 2 old Maximas. One of em had RS4 front seats (???????????????). One started rolling backwards in the driveway and when I pulled the handbrake the front wheels left the ground (??????????????????????). Drive in to work was a little drizzly. Coming around a turn I gave too much gas.... stability control saved me. This thing loves to whip around in the wet.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 03, 2014, 01:18:46 PM
The money/time I would spend traveling could just be spent on buying what I want here
Especially considering I might go out to see a car and not buy it. No way eff that.
Had a weird dream and a moment. Dreamt that I bought 2 old Maximas. One of em had RS4 front seats (???????????????). One started rolling backwards in the driveway and when I pulled the handbrake the front wheels left the ground (??????????????????????). Drive in to work was a little drizzly. Coming around a turn I gave too much gas.... stability control saved me. This thing loves to whip around in the wet.
Usually that would be strange, but for a honda fanboi that sounds pretty normal.
:lol:
lols
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 03, 2014, 01:29:57 PM
Usually that would be strange, but for a honda fanboi that sounds pretty normal.
:lol:
We dream big :praise:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 17, 2014, 02:31:37 PM
Fuck............
(http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/products/dyno/20tfsi_trans_stage1_93_engine.gif)
LOL, no. This wouldn't be smoking any 350Zs. You can like your little FWD shitbox, but that isn't realistic.
My buddies MKV dyno from a recent dynoday.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2rgo1ap.jpg)
VWs are pieces of fucking shit, and no tune will change that.
Quote from: Char on December 03, 2014, 05:07:35 PM
LOL, no. This wouldn't be smoking any 350Zs. You can like your little FWD shitbox, but that isn't realistic.
My buddies MKV dyno from a recent dynoday.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2rgo1ap.jpg)
VWs are pieces of fucking shit, and no tune will change that.
(http://captionsearch.com/pix/thumb/t8c4q3rp8-t.jpg)
Quote from: Char on December 03, 2014, 05:07:35 PM
LOL, no. This wouldn't be smoking any 350Zs. You can like your little FWD shitbox, but that isn't realistic.
My buddies MKV dyno from a recent dynoday.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2rgo1ap.jpg)
VWs are pieces of fucking shit, and no tune will change that.
If you weren't so stupid, you'd be a pretty smart guy.
Was his MKV an APR stage 1?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 03, 2014, 08:29:36 PM
Was his MKV an APR stage 1?
Quote from: Char on December 04, 2014, 08:49:43 AM
MKV APR Stage 2.
It brings tears to my eyes how you guys have become friends. The magic of the Spin. The man-love. The bonding. The glory!
BrokebackSpin.
:violin:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 04, 2014, 08:51:44 AM
It brings tears to my eyes how you guys have become friends. The magic of the Spin. The man-love. The bonding. The glory!
BrokebackSpin.
:violin:
You fold down that rear seat in the golf and there is quite a bit of room back there.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 04, 2014, 08:55:21 AM
You fold down that rear seat in the golf and there is quite a bit of room back there.
:winkguy:
(I actually LOL'd)
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 04, 2014, 08:51:44 AM
It brings tears to my eyes how you guys have become friends. The magic of the Spin. The man-love. The bonding. The glory!
BrokebackSpin.
:violin:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 04, 2014, 08:55:21 AM
You fold down that rear seat in the golf and there is quite a bit of room back there.
:lol:
Lol here are some APR Stage 1 dynos
(http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww182/Kloz76/DynoChart.jpg) (http://s718.photobucket.com/user/Kloz76/media/DynoChart.jpg.html)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i310/cicatrizdare/dyno2.jpg)
Etc
Your friend might just have bad luck being around your miserable ass all the time.
Why are you so emotionally invested in what strangers on the internet drive?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 04, 2014, 09:31:26 AM
Lol here are some APR Stage 1 dynos
(http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww182/Kloz76/DynoChart.jpg) (http://s718.photobucket.com/user/Kloz76/media/DynoChart.jpg.html)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i310/cicatrizdare/dyno2.jpg)
Etc
Your friend might just have bad luck being around your miserable ass all the time.
Why are you so emotionally invested in what strangers on the internet drive?
Why are you so emotionally invested in what strangers on the internet say? And good job cherry picking those results:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5838268-VAG-dyno-day-interesting-results (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5838268-VAG-dyno-day-interesting-results)
Quote
MKVI Golf R - Unitronic Stage 1, Evolution Motorsport intake - 263.2 whp / 259.4 wtq
MKV R32 - drop in filter, flapper mod - 196.6 whp / 188.0 wtq
B7 RS4 - stock - 291.4 whp / 253.1 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, APR TBE - 231.7 whp / 262.5 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, SPM FMIC, Billy Boat TBE (catless, no res) - 243.4 whp / 270.4 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, GHL 200 cell catted DP (no res), Magnaflow CBE - 239.6 whp / 272.6 wtq
MKVI GTI - REVO Stage 2, Modshack intake, AWE TOP, AWE DP - 242.4 whp / 264.7 wtq
MKVI GTI - Unitronic Stage 2, Neuspeed P-Flo intake, Billy Boat catted/resonated TBE - 228.9 whp / 255.1 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, AWE downpipe - 237.1 whp / 264.7 wtq
MKVI GTI - Unitronic Stage 2, ATP catless downpipe - 235.0 whp / 265.5 wtq
MKVI Golf R - stock - 225 whp / 245 wtq (no video, ran before I arrived)
The MK6 has a "better" engine and responds better to tuning, and you want me to believe a stage 1 MK5 puts up the same numbers. Get out of here with that BS.
Here we go:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/speeddemon69/Picture004-1.jpg)
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52087 (http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52087)
SAE numbers are about 2% lower than STD numbers. That car can't even put down 230whp. Piece of shit.
Lol
Complain about cherrypicking, and then cherrypick, SPINners
And if the EA888 is a POS for putting down "only" 220WHP with a $500 tune, then what's an engine that has 50% more displacement that needs a new airbox, intake manifold, headers, exhaust and tune to squeak out the same 220WHP (and nowhere near the EA888's torque)? :popcorn:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 04, 2014, 01:32:52 PM
Lol
Complain about cherrypicking, and then cherrypick, SPINners
And if the EA888 is a POS for putting down "only" 220WHP with a $500 tune, then what's an engine that has 50% more displacement that needs a new airbox, intake manifold, headers, exhaust and tune to squeak out the same 220WHP (and nowhere near the EA888's torque)? :popcorn:
It's a masterpiece obviously since it needs so much work to be improved. You know the manufacturers never leave anything on the table.
Why just just build wifey's car?
Integrated Engineering 2.5L 5 cylinder all motor 9400RPM pull (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq6Ahsk4VGo#ws)
Needs a turbo.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 04, 2014, 01:32:52 PM
Lol
Complain about cherrypicking, and then cherrypick, SPINners
And if the EA888 is a POS for putting down "only" 220WHP with a $500 tune, then what's an engine that has 50% more displacement that needs a new airbox, intake manifold, headers, exhaust and tune to squeak out the same 220WHP (and nowhere near the EA888's torque)? :popcorn:
Seriously?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 04, 2014, 02:50:16 PM
Seriously?
I am just trying to follow Chartard's logic- I think the N52 is a superior motor, just not for what I am prioritizing with this next purchase.
The car after the next one will probably be N55 equipped.
A 330i with just a tune makes more, and it's NA port injection. I don't know why you're obsessed with shitty cars, your like 2o6².
bang bang shots fired
Quote from: Char on December 05, 2014, 06:48:46 PM
A 330i with just a tune makes more, and it's NA port injection. I don't know why you're obsessed with shitty cars, your like 2o6².
(http://i.imgur.com/Mtdcy.gif)
Quote from: thecarnut on December 05, 2014, 07:44:49 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/Mtdcy.gif)
Fuck, you win perfect :clap:
Quote from: Char on December 05, 2014, 06:48:46 PM
A 330i with just a tune makes more, and it's NA port injection.
I wasnt talking about the 330i though
An NA1 makes more stock. Wats your point.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 05, 2014, 08:17:22 PM
Fuck, you win perfect :clap:
I wasnt talking about the 330i though
An NA1 makes more stock. Wats your point.
a 328i is a 330i. You made a claim that a N52 requires an intake, intake manifold and a tune to reach over 230whp - it doesn't as I pointed out to you.
Enjoy being wrong.
Quote from: Char on December 06, 2014, 08:10:42 PM
a 328i is a 330i. You made a claim that a N52 requires an intake, intake manifold and a tune to reach over 230whp - it doesn't as I pointed out to you.
Enjoy being wrong.
So could you get your 328i to 230whp without an intake, intake manifold and tune?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 06, 2014, 11:45:40 PM
So could you get your 328i to 230whp without an intake, intake manifold and tune?
A
N52 in general, yes. You could technically do it without a tune at all. Stop dicking around with these little FWD shit cars, and buy a man car. If you think a Golf is cheaper to run and a better buy, you've been hanging out with Raza far too long.
Quote from: Char on December 07, 2014, 09:01:25 AM
A N52 in general, yes. You could technically do it without a tune at all. Stop dicking around with these little FWD shit cars, and buy a man car. If you think a Golf is cheaper to run and a better buy, you've been hanging out with Raza far too long.
Lol
This is like saying all VQs are 260whp engines stock. What VQ20 is hitting 260whp w/o a complete rebuild?
And lol @ a dude who's never owned a VW, telling a dude who owns a VW what VW ownership is like.
Unless of course, you have owned a VW :popcorn:
Quest
Going to look at something tonight........
Is it that pink elantra you sent me pictures of?
That shit is hot!!! You should totally buy it.
:lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 07, 2014, 01:20:19 PM
Lol
This is like saying all VQs are 260whp engines stock. What VQ20 is hitting 260whp w/o a complete rebuild?
And lol @ a dude who's never owned a VW, telling a dude who owns a VW what VW ownership is like.
Unless of course, you have owned a VW :popcorn:
No, it's not the same at all. The N52B30 are all the same. Same camshafts, same bore and stroke, same injection system. A 330/Z4 SI/Z4 are all the same - the intake manifold is the only difference.
I scared to imagine what kind of crap car you're looking at now. :(
Quote from: Char on December 19, 2014, 01:32:44 PM
No, it's not the same at all. The N52B30 are all the same. Same camshafts, same bore and stroke, same injection system. A 330/Z4 SI/Z4 are all the same - the intake manifold is the only difference.
I scared to imagine what kind of crap car you're looking at now. :(
Its a FWD hatchback, like the car from which the tach in your avatar is from
Oh no
Yea I like the GTI
Feels like everything my wife's car is supposed to be. Steering is sharper, brakes are tighter. Engine has a decent little growl to it. Little turbo lag at like 1500 but it's good from 2 on. Got pretty good gas mileage on our little stop and go loop too. We nickel and dimed the shit out of the dealer so they are gonna give us a price I'm happy with. I think we are just going to pay cash as we don't want the ding on our credit and I'll get most of it back with the Z. Not even going to bother driving the Mazda 3 or TSX... I like the GTI's midrange punch. The DSG is pretty slick too. Prob gonna pick it up tomorrow.
Congrats. Brand new?
Welcome to the club
Why DSG?
Wifey wants to be able to drive it. Did stickshift 6x in a row, wanna try something different.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 20, 2014, 01:52:13 PM
Wifey wants to be able to drive it. Did stickshift 6x in a row, wanna try something different.
Oh. :(
Well, congrats on the car. I hope you enjoy it, though I don't see why you have two pretty much identical cars.
The DSG is a great, great transmission
I thought you wanted something that you could grow into if you had kids?
So you have a Rabbit and a GTI?
These can fit infant seats no problem. Thats about all I'm concerned about. If we need more room wifey will get a TDI wagon.
Been thinking about it... gonna pass on this particular car. Miles are too high. Theres one more in line with what I want, but its 100 miles away :( Will probably go see it next weekend, its been sitting for a while and I bet they would play ball.
Will probably give some local Mazda 3s a look as well. I really like the DSG though
I'll sell you my car
I would look at a 1990 Honda Accord sedan.
Quote from: CALL_911 on December 20, 2014, 03:34:22 PM
I'll sell you my car
It's a manual, therefore too much car for sporty to handle.
Come on, cut him a break. The DSG is a fantastic transmission, and a great choice. Objectively speaking, it's a better transmission than the 6MT
I need a 4 door too. I would buy your car in a heartbeat
I really want one with the TSI but those are a lot more... for good reason... god damn timing belt
Things gonna be up for sale soon, keep it in mind
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 19, 2014, 02:44:50 PM
Its a FWD hatchback, like the car from which the tach in your avatar is from
It's a Tach from a Honda - a VW.
LOL, wow you are really going to go with a GTI? Good, have fun spending the purchase price in repairs every year and still being awful in every way.
VW drivers aren't real car guys.
:lol:
You keep reinforcing the BMW stereotype.
Check out the 2006-2011 or 2013+ Si's. The 13 Si is a $700 HFP suspension kit away from being awesome, has plenty of room (back seat is better then the GTI imo, but not as all around versatile cause of the missing hatch), and it has an awesome engine/tranny. Fuel economy is a wash, but I feel like you should be able to get the Si for a good amount cheaper.
Quote from: Char on December 21, 2014, 07:18:40 PM
It's a Tach from a Honda - a VW.
LOL, wow you are really going to go with a GTI? Good, have fun spending the purchase price in repairs every year and still being awful in every way.
:nyd:
Quote from: Char on December 21, 2014, 07:18:40 PMVW drivers aren't real car guys.
:cry:
Quote from: Xer0 on December 21, 2014, 08:51:41 PM
Check out the 2006-2011 or 2013+ Si's. The 13 Si is a $700 HFP suspension kit away from being awesome, has plenty of room (back seat is better then the GTI imo, but not as all around versatile cause of the missing hatch), and it has an awesome engine/tranny. Fuel economy is a wash, but I feel like you should be able to get the Si for a good amount cheaper.
I have been thinking about those. Only problem is I wanted something with an automatic so wifey could drive it. Hondas are stupid easy to learn to drive stick on though and decent Sis are in my price range. I do like them though. Plus I think they will allow me to remain in "real car guy" standing with Char which is the driving force behind this purchase
Quote from: Char on December 21, 2014, 07:18:40 PM
It's a Tach from a Honda - a VW.
LOL, wow you are really going to go with a GTI? Good, have fun spending the purchase price in repairs every year and still being awful in every way.
VW drivers aren't real car guys.
You left out that VWs also cause adult acne and drive humpback whales to beach themselves.
Are you looking at 1.8t GTI's? Or maybe I misunderstood the TSI comment.
No hell no no MK4s
Im looking at the 2007 and up 4 doors with the 2.0s. 2007-2008 they had the FSI, then 2008.5 and beyond they went to the much improved TSI. Those go for way more $$$. And right now there are only like ~2 GTIs like I want within 100 miles of me.
I'd take you even less serious than I do now if you drive a MK5 GTI.
For that money - I could have
325/328/330 (E46 -E90) RWD, no timing belt, no carbon build up/4 doors
Civic SI sedan (It's a Honda)
Accord 6/6 Sedan (It's a Honda - BUT it uses a timing belt)
TSX (Amazing car imo)
Quote from: Char on December 22, 2014, 09:48:25 AM
I'd take you even less serious than I do now if you drive a MK5 GTI.
I have been asking you this for about a year now though and you have yet to even acknowledge let alone provide an answer. What value is there in you taking anybody seriously? Nobody here takes you seriously.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 22, 2014, 08:15:46 AM
No hell no no MK4s
Im looking at the 2007 and up 4 doors with the 2.0s. 2007-2008 they had the FSI, then 2008.5 and beyond they went to the much improved TSI. Those go for way more $$$. And right now there are only like ~2 GTIs like I want within 100 miles of me.
What's the price difference between these and an early E90 330i?
Charles is right you know. GTI maintenance will be close to the bimmer or worse IMO.
Quote from: Char on December 22, 2014, 09:48:25 AM
I'd take you even less serious than I do now if you drive a MK5 GTI.
For that money - I could have
325/328/330 (E46 -E90) RWD, no timing belt, no carbon build up/4 doors
Civic SI sedan (It's a Honda)
Accord 6/6 Sedan (It's a Honda - BUT it uses a timing belt)
TSX (Amazing car imo)
Looks like a bunch of garbage to me.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 22, 2014, 01:46:34 PM
What's the price difference between these and an early E90 330i?
Charles is right you know. GTI maintenance will be close to the bimmer or worse IMO.
Price delta is pretty much non-existent. E90 gets worse gas mileage and is less practical. Looking to go back to FWD TBH.... I will fuck around too much in another RWD car. Rational side is telling me I should probably look at Mazda 3s instead of CSis but I will have to see how I feel after driving these cars.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 22, 2014, 02:01:05 PM
Price delta is pretty much non-existent. E90 gets worse gas mileage and is less practical. Looking to go back to FWD TBH.... I will fuck around too much in another RWD car. Rational side is telling me I should probably look at Mazda 3s instead of CSis but I will have to see how I feel after driving these cars.
Looking to get back to FWD?! That only makes sense in snowy places.
You are a weird one, Sporty.
Quote from: mzziaz on December 22, 2014, 02:08:58 PM
Looking to get back to FWD?! That only makes sense in snowy places.
You are a weird one, Sporty.
Honda's can really screw some of these kids up. They may never be right again.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 22, 2014, 02:01:05 PM
Price delta is pretty much non-existent. E90 gets worse gas mileage and is less practical. Looking to go back to FWD TBH.... I will fuck around too much in another RWD car. Rational side is telling me I should probably look at Mazda 3s instead of CSis but I will have to see how I feel after driving these cars.
FWD won't stop you from doing stupid shit when driving. You'll just have less fun doing it. Lose - lose.
A much newer GTI over an E90, MAYBE. A car the same age? Fuck that.
Either car is tons more practical than the Z. Just get an E90 with folding seat backs.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 22, 2014, 02:17:29 PM
FWD won't stop you from doing stupid shit when driving. You'll just have less fun doing it. Lose - lose.
A much newer GTI over an E90, MAYBE. A car the same age? Fuck that.
Either car is tons more practical than the Z. Just get an E90 with folding seat backs.
Be realistic, a sedan with folding back seats is not even comparable to a hatchback or wagon design when it comes to practicality.
This thread just gets weirder and weirder.
Quote from: MrH on December 22, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
This thread just gets weirder and weirder.
Don't you have a korean fight club you should be heading off to?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 22, 2014, 02:17:06 PM
Honda's can really screw some of these kids up. They may never be right again.
Different cultures have different kinks. Germans have scheisse...., The Japanese have creepy manga, while you guys have it for Honda econoboxes.
Disturbing, I tell you!
Quote from: mzziaz on December 22, 2014, 02:21:02 PM
Different cultures have different kinks. Germans have scheisse...., The Japanese have creepy manga, while you guys have it for Honda econoboxes.
Disturbing, I tell you!
"you guys", what the hell do you mean you guys.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 22, 2014, 02:21:52 PM
"you guys", what the hell do you mean you guys.
The entire population of the USA, except you apparently.
Quote from: mzziaz on December 22, 2014, 02:22:50 PM
The entire population of the USA, except you apparently.
:cheers:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 22, 2014, 02:17:29 PM
FWD won't stop you from doing stupid shit when driving. You'll just have less fun doing it.
Exactly, which removes the incentive, which leads to me doing less stupid shit while driving. Even when I am just cruising I find myself at least 15 over everywhere. And its fun as hell to load up the chassis through turns. RWD dynamics are fun but I just dont have the self control to stay out of trouble on the road. I just have to be honest with myself. Bike is OK as self preservation kicks in at much lower limits than the Z.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 22, 2014, 02:17:29 PM
A much newer GTI over an E90, MAYBE. A car the same age? Fuck that.
Either car is tons more practical than the Z. Just get an E90 with folding seat backs.
I am really debating. If I can stay ticket free until next summer I could definitely swing an MK6 GTI, which would be way more legit. That might be the most rational course of action.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 22, 2014, 02:50:07 PM
Exactly, which removes the incentive, which leads to me doing less stupid shit while driving. Even when I am just cruising I find myself at least 15 over everywhere. And its fun as hell to load up the chassis through turns. RWD dynamics are fun but I just dont have the self control to stay out of trouble on the road. I just have to be honest with myself. Bike is OK as self preservation kicks in at much lower limits than the Z.I am really debating. If I can stay ticket free until next summer I could definitely swing an MK6 GTI, which would be way more legit. That might be the most rational course of action.
You will end up hooning the GTI even more trying to get the same kick.
Work on those issues, love yourself or ride the bus.
I can left foot brake drift the Accent around off ramps just fine, so I don't know what you mean about staying out of trouble.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 22, 2014, 02:59:37 PM
You will end up hooning the GTI even more trying to get the same kick.
Work on those issues, love yourself or ride the bus.
There is literally NO logic in anything he posts. Buy a GTI because he lacks self control? So he's going to buy a shitbox FWD VW that is less reliable than a Honda - he's making excuses.
Let him wallow in his ignorance, and let this thread be a shrine to it.
Quote from: Char on December 22, 2014, 08:37:49 PM
There is literally NO logic in anything he posts. Buy a GTI because he lacks self control? So he's going to buy a shitbox FWD VW that is less reliable than a Honda - he's making excuses.
Let him wallow in his ignorance, and let this thread be a shrine to it.
Z has been less reliable than wifey's VW
Get angrier though, and keep ducking tough questions. Im wallowing in your emotional investment and cowardice
Quote from: MrH on December 22, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
This thread just gets weirder and weirder.
This apostrophe is absolutely killing me:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 22, 2014, 02:17:06 PM
Honda's can really screw some of these kids up. They may never be right again.
I thought about the Bimmer thing. Only way I can do it is with the SMG. This would be perfect if not for the damn miles
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4788853151.html (http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4788853151.html)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 23, 2014, 07:55:41 AM
I thought about the Bimmer thing. Only way I can do it is with the SMG. This would be perfect if not for the damn miles
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4788853151.html (http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4788853151.html)
Why would you want a BMW SMG? Do you hate yourself and want driving outside of a track to be miserable? Would you track your station wagon often?
This thread needs more cowbell
Quote from: HotRodPilot on December 23, 2014, 08:46:51 AM
This thread needs more cowbell
http://www.cowbells.com (http://www.cowbells.com)
Before this thread goes full retard:
Sell the Z/bike or trade it in -
If you HAVE to have a wagon
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/623403247/overview/ (http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/623403247/overview/)
But you and I know damn well you don't need a Wagon or an Automatic transmission
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/622096736/overview/ (http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/622096736/overview/)
Both under 100K clean examples. Enough of this madness.
Quote from: Raza on December 23, 2014, 08:43:55 AM
Why would you want a BMW SMG? Do you hate yourself and want driving outside of a track to be miserable? Would you track your station wagon often?
It is not that bad. Totally over-hated.
Quote from: Raza on December 23, 2014, 08:43:55 AM
Why would you want a BMW SMG? Do you hate yourself and want driving outside of a track to be miserable? Would you track your station wagon often?
Is it really that bad :confused:
Quote from: Char on December 23, 2014, 08:58:00 AM
Before this thread goes full retard:
Sell the Z/bike or trade it in -
If you HAVE to have a wagon
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/623403247/overview/ (http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/623403247/overview/)
But you and I know damn well you don't need a Wagon or an Automatic transmission
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/622096736/overview/ (http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/622096736/overview/)
Both under 100K clean examples. Enough of this madness.
When you can tell me why your opinion matters I might consider your suggestions
Till then :huh:
Quote from: GoCougs on December 23, 2014, 07:53:23 AM
This apostrophe is absolutely killing me:
Yeah, like you're one to talk about grammatical errors. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Char on December 23, 2014, 08:58:00 AM
Before this thread goes full retard:
Sell the Z/bike or trade it in -
If you HAVE to have a wagon
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/623403247/overview/ (http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/623403247/overview/)
But you and I know damn well you don't need a Wagon or an Automatic transmission
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/622096736/overview/ (http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/622096736/overview/)
Both under 100K clean examples. Enough of this madness.
Not to mention that with either of those, he could easily get a job working at forever 21 or the local hair salon.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 23, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Not to mention that with either of those, he could easily get a job working at forever 21 or the local hair salon.
:nono: Base model 3 series' are the chosen chariots of "real car guys"
Raza does make a good point that I made before and which Chartard seemed to miss. This car wont see the track just like my Z didn't. So any concessions for 10/10ths brilliance is a waste.
There is a 2007 Civic Si sedan that fits all the parameters but the transmission on the way home from my job. Might sneak out early and see what that's about.
E46 autos are really good.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 23, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Not to mention that with either of those, he could easily get a job working at forever 21 or the local hair salon.
the 3 series is a secretary car, the VW is for a basic bitches and Miatas are for hairdressers. Get your shit straight.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 23, 2014, 11:06:29 AM
:nono: Base model 3 series' are the chosen chariots of "real car guys"
Raza does make a good point that I made before and which Chartard seemed to miss. This car wont see the track just like my Z didn't. So any concessions for 10/10ths brilliance is a waste.
There is a 2007 Civic Si sedan that fits all the parameters but the transmission on the way home from my job. Might sneak out early and see what that's about.
"Base" 3 series are vastly better cars than wanna-be upmarket economy cars. The 3 series is a better car by every objective margin, including maintenance cost and performance - there is literally no reason to buy a GTI over the 3 series unless your retar...Oh wait, I can see where this is going.
Carry on.
So just to recap for those playing along at home.
Downmarket luxury>upmarket economy
I can see that, it's one of the reasons that the big german 3 haven't been introducing cheaper entry level cars.
I mean, could you imagine a fwd "upmarket" economy bmw.
GTI and E90 325i are neck and neck performance wise, and I don't plan on spending thousands of dollars to get the 325i's HP up to where the GTI's would be with a $600 tune (as I demonstrated in Chartard's "build" thread). Plus performance is not tremendously relevant anyway, I'm not buying this car to race or impress people on the internet and I have the bike.
GTI is more practical and gets significantly better gas mileage (19%). Also has a much better automatic transmission. Easier to park too which is key when we go to the city. Etc. etc. I've thought about all these things. Reliability is the only real dark horse in the context of my needs
Quote from: Char on December 23, 2014, 12:14:30 PM
Quests are vastly better cars than wanna-be upmarket economy cars. The Quest is a better car by every objective margin, including maintenance cost and performance - there is literally no reason to buy a Villager Nautica Edition over the Quest unless your retar...Oh wait, I can see where this is going.
Carry on.
:facepalm:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 23, 2014, 12:41:38 PM
GTI and E90 325i are neck and neck performance wise, and I don't plan on spending thousands of dollars to get the 325i's HP up to where the GTI's would be with a $600 tune (as I demonstrated in Chartard's "build" thread). Plus performance is not tremendously relevant anyway, I'm not buying this car to race or impress people on the internet and I have the bike.
GTI is more practical and gets significantly better gas mileage (19%). Also has a much better automatic transmission. Easier to park too which is key when we go to the city. Etc. etc. I've thought about all these things. Reliability is the only real dark horse in the context of my needs
200 for a manifold and 400 for a tune (or less if it's on sale) for a car that is still not a FWD turd. And if you're not buying it to race, the GTI's higher maintenance cost (including DSG fluid changes every 30K) Carbon build up, water pump, timing belts, worn turbo seals etc, and the fact that real world mileage is pretty even between the two, you look like an even bigger idiot than normal trying to justify driving a turd.
Have at it.
#QuestLYFE
Manifold's here......get your manifold's.......today only......unlock the power of your car with a new manifold!!!!
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 23, 2014, 02:10:26 PM
Manifold's here......get your manifold's.......today only......unlock the power of your car with a new manifold!!!!
What type of shipping do you offer? My car needs to be ready for race wars
Quote from: 68_427 on December 23, 2014, 02:12:23 PM
What type of shipping do you offer? My car needs to be ready for race wars
Why I'm glad you asked that, What a good looking question.
We ship by courier horse....of course, nothing but the finest thoroughbreds this side of the mighty mississippi.
Do you have any G4EDs? I know a couple of G4EDs would pull a premium right before race wars, so I'm willing to pay whatever price.
How do your manifolds handle "the juice"?
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee325/ptschafer2/Manifold.gif)
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 23, 2014, 02:16:08 PM
Do you have any G4EDs? I know a couple of G4EDs would pull a premium right before race wars, so I'm willing to pay whatever price.
Pfft, sounds like a waste of time. What you really need is a 31 speed manual transmission.
Also, when you get passed, don't forget to downshift since apparently you always have more speed available during a drag race if you downshift.
Quote from: 68_427 on December 23, 2014, 02:17:23 PM
How do your manifolds handle "the juice"?
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee325/ptschafer2/Manifold.gif)
All manifolds are pre-juiced.
Quote from: 68_427 on December 23, 2014, 02:17:23 PM
How do your manifolds handle "the juice"?
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee325/ptschafer2/Manifold.gif)
Not good. I've seen the way I drive - I have a heavy foot.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 23, 2014, 02:18:27 PM
Pfft, sounds like a waste of time. What you really need is a 31 speed manual transmission.
Also, when you get passed, don't forget to downshift since apparently you always have more speed available during a drag race if you downshift.
I couldn't afford to use all my tranny fluid for that many speeds. That's why I need noss.
Run a hundred shot into the transmission. :huh:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 23, 2014, 02:22:40 PM
Run a hundred shot into the transmission. :huh:
Just make sure your drill a hole into the bottom of the case for the NAWS exploshun to go
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 23, 2014, 02:22:40 PM
Run a hundred shot into the transmission. :huh:
I can't. I drilled speed holes in the clutch, but now I can't go over 90 without overheating from all the power.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 23, 2014, 02:28:06 PM
I can't. I drilled speed holes in the clutch, but now I can't go over 90 without overheating from all the power.
Well, you could always just install a switch on your steering wheel. I'm sure pushing it will still cause vision blurring acceleration. Even if it isn't hooked up to anything.
Quote from: Char on December 23, 2014, 01:59:37 PM
200 for a manifold and 400 for a tune (or less if it's on sale) for a car that is still not a FWD turd. And if you're not buying it to race, the GTI's higher maintenance cost (including DSG fluid changes every 30K) Carbon build up, water pump, timing belts, worn turbo seals etc, and the fact that real world mileage is pretty even between the two, you look like an even bigger idiot than normal trying to justify driving a turd.
Have at it.
Werent you just bragging about the E90 offering you enough practice to gain your mastery of fast water pump changes? Not to mention BMW still hadnt figured out how to make a VTC, as well as the lifter issues. And weird shit goes like starters (???), HVAC fans (???), control modules (!!!!) etc. etc. As usual you are painting things with a heavy bias to try and save face
And you havent posted dynos of your actual car, so the gains you claim from said mods are dubious at best.
Still LOLing at your decrying of FWD with an ITR tach for an avatar as well. Youre a joke
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 23, 2014, 06:13:57 PM
Werent you just bragging about the E90 offering you enough practice to gain your mastery of fast water pump changes? Not to mention BMW still hadnt figured out how to make a VTC, as well as the lifter issues. And weird shit goes like starters (???), HVAC fans (???), control modules (!!!!) etc. etc. As usual you are painting things with a heavy bias to try and save face
And you havent posted dynos of your actual car, so the gains you claim from said mods are dubious at best.
Still LOLing at your decrying of FWD with an ITR tach for an avatar as well. Youre a joke
M54 =/=N52
I've been on the dyno more times with all three of my BMWs than everyone in this forum COMBINED. I've actually posted my dynos a few times (remember that 222whp dyno with an intake and tune? That was MY car) There are no VTC issues, no lifter issues, starter issues, HVAC issues, control module issues - at all. I don't know what E90 you've had experience with or what forum do you frequent to read on their problems, but I'm sure it's not the forums I frequent.
GTI >>>>> 325i.
"I've been on the dyno more times with all three of my BMWs than everyone in this forum COMBINED."
FALSE
I dyno tune my car everytime I fill up. I won't leave anything on the table, even if it's just 3 whp.
I bet you take your car to the limit on the streets too don't you nerd
I've done like five dyno sessions. So +5.
Dyno sessions are part of my bedtime routine. Brush teeth, floss, dyno, wash face, take out contacts, sleep.
I don't take out my contacts to sleep. I got the extended wears.
I can wear mine overnight but I like the fresh contact feeling in the morning, right before I dyno.
U dyno in the morning, too?
Gotta make sure the night elves didn't mess up my tune and make me lose 500 hp.
Sometimes when I dyno I swap on lighter sets of wheels to fudge the results.
You guys are all being idiots IMO. He does dyno and work on his car. What's wrong with that?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 23, 2014, 07:10:05 PM
I've done like five dyno sessions. So +5.
That's cute.
1 time for my first car
2 times for my first BMW
5 times for my second BMW
4 times for my 3er
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 23, 2014, 07:54:59 PM
You guys are all being idiots IMO. He does dyno and work on his car. What's wrong with that?
I know what I own, and I know what I have done and what I can do. It's just amazing how willfully ignorant everyone will be on a subject that's essentially cut and dry.
You're right Sporty, you can do whatever you like. Good luck.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 23, 2014, 07:35:19 PM
I don't take out my contacts to sleep. I got the extended wears.
More time to dyno.
A.B.D. Always be dynoing.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 23, 2014, 07:54:59 PM
You guys are all being idiots IMO. He does dyno and work on his car. What's wrong with that?
Nothing, except he's an asshole, so nobody cares if he has been to a dyno or how many BMWs/quests he has owned.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 23, 2014, 07:54:59 PM
You guys are all being idiots IMO. He does dyno and work on his car. What's wrong with that?
Boy, you bmw boys sure do stick together.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 23, 2014, 07:54:59 PM
You guys are all being idiots IMO. He does dyno and work on his car. What's wrong with that?
He thinks doing so commands respect, while being an asshole who contradicts himself. If he werent a BMW cheerleader, you'd see it :lol:
I have build engines and done all kinds of car work... I dont feel the need to tout my car resume out of fear of not being seen as a "real car guy". Thats the basic thing he doesnt understand. Nobody gives a shit what you drive or how many whp your tune makes.... its your character and net impact as a poster. In that regard he fails. Hes like a mosquito buzzing around while you are trying to fall asleep.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 23, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Is it really that bad :confused:
I've never read a single good word written about it. Or really any single clutch automatic, outside of a track situation, not that I can recall, anyway.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 24, 2014, 07:24:22 AM
He thinks doing so commands respect, while being an asshole who contradicts himself. If he werent a BMW cheerleader, you'd see it :lol:
I have build engines and done all kinds of car work... I dont feel the need to tout my car resume out of fear of not being seen as a "real car guy". Thats the basic thing he doesnt understand. Nobody gives a shit what you drive or how many whp your tune makes.... its your character and net impact as a poster. In that regard he fails. Hes like a mosquito buzzing around while you are trying to fall asleep.
Of course the BMW thing colors it for me. We got clubs you know. But they're getting empty for superior VW tech as you all know........but I digress.
To be honest, his latest comments on this thread were quite reasonable, I definitely agree that E90 maintenance is nothing to be afraid of (with the N/A engines) and would likely be less troublesome in the long run than a GTI of the same vintage. Char-bashing is now a thing here, I understand where it originally comes from, but I think we would be past that now.
I also definitely think that the driving experience of an E90 325i is superior to a same year GTI, the cars are in different segments for a reason + RWD > FWD in the end. Lots of criticism of "base" 3 series here. Frankly, the base 3 is one of the best 3s generally. And what you get isn't even base. A 316i, that's base.
Quote from: Raza on December 24, 2014, 08:21:52 AM
I've never read a single good word written about it. Or really any single clutch automatic, outside of a track situation, not that I can recall, anyway.
Any decent torque converter automatic would be 100x better for a daily driver.
I'll be frank- I don't like E90s because of Char. Only one I would do is the 335i, and those are just not an option ATM. If I went this route (sport sedan) Id prob stick with something with a VQ. Same money, more room, more performance, better reliability. Mazda 3, Civic Si or TSX are realistically the best choices for me, for what I want vs what I need.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 24, 2014, 10:24:14 AM
I'll be frank- I don't like E90s because of Char. Only one I would do is the 335i, and those are just not an option ATM. If I went this route (sport sedan) Id prob stick with something with a VQ. Same money, more room, more performance, better reliability. Mazda 3, Civic Si or TSX are realistically the best choices for me, for what I want vs what I need.
That'll teach me.
This forum is upset that I shattered the hive-mindset that somehow Golf based FWD cars are the perfect compromise for every enthusiast, when in reality they are terrible cars purchased primarily by clueless women. I've challenged people multiple times to change my view, provide an enthusiast counter-view on why people are fawning after unreliable, lackluster shit boxes? Soft touch dash plastics, horrible reliability, high maintenance cost, undefeatable traction control, Automatic transmissions etc. We (the collective of this forum) call foul when this happens to a supercar - but it's complete ok when it comes to a mainstream car? Come-the-fuck-on.
Anytime argue with facts, I'm greeted with personal insults, people take it personal as if I'm talking about their child. "You don't know what your talking about" "You drive a Nissan Quest LOL" and "Chartard" etc, majority of these same people couldn't even tell you how to change their own oil, but tell me I have no experience on said cars? Ok.
Quote from: Char on December 24, 2014, 10:57:53 AM
That'll teach me.
This forum is upset that I shattered the hive-mindset that somehow Golf based FWD cars are the perfect compromise for every enthusiast, when in reality they are terrible cars purchased primarily by clueless women. I've challenged people multiple times to change my view, provide an enthusiast counter-view on why people are fawning after unreliable, lackluster shit boxes? Soft touch dash plastics, horrible reliability, high maintenance cost, undefeatable traction control, Automatic transmissions etc. We (the collective of this forum) call foul when this happens to a supercar - but it's complete ok when it comes to a mainstream car? Come-the-fuck-on.
Anytime argue with facts, I'm greeted with personal insults, people take it personal as if I'm talking about their child. "You don't know what your talking about" "You drive a Nissan Quest LOL" and "Chartard" etc, majority of these same people couldn't even tell you how to change their own oil, but tell me I have no experience on said cars? Ok.
You take VWs as personally as anyone on this forum. I've yet to see anyone as passionate about them as you. Moreso than any fanboy. Nothing seems to whip you up into a mouth frothing fury more than anyone mentioning VWs on these boards.
You're also among the first to throw out personal insults. If you want people to respect you, be respectful to others. It's a little hard to respect someone who mixes facts with unprovoked, juvenile, and vulgar name-calling and insults. You've been combative on this board pretty much since day one and now everyone is combative towards you. You reap what you sow.
Quote from: MX793 on December 24, 2014, 11:24:29 AM
You take VWs as personally as anyone on this forum. I've yet to see anyone as passionate about them as you. Moreso than any fanboy. Nothing seems to whip you up into a mouth frothing fury more than anyone mentioning VWs on these boards.
You're also among the first to throw out personal insults. If you want people to respect you, be respectful to others. It's a little hard to respect someone who mixes facts with unprovoked, juvenile, and vulgar name-calling and insults. You've been combative on this board pretty much since day one and now everyone is combative towards you. You reap what you sow.
I think you need to reread those threads and refresh your memory.
Not at all hard to find:
In response to someone politely disagreeing with your assertion that a GTI or CSi isn't fun to drive (whom in the immediately prior post you called "ridiculous"):
Quote from: Char on October 21, 2012, 05:25:10 PM
But I'm not an idiot mouthing off without anything substantive to back up my comments. :ohyeah: It's ok that you like the GTI, I don't and I listed specific reasons why. I was asked what cars I would rather drive than one, I named a few (to which you stated they weren?t hatchbacks. That wasn't part of the criteria). I don't like FWD, I don't like hatchbacks, and I don't like VW's shitty engineers, questionable reliability and I especially don't like the pretentious, douchebag customers. If you?re fine with that, enjoy your new hipster-mobile.
Or how about when you started referring to AutobahnSHO as a "military welfare queen" because he disagreed with your opinion? And I would point out that Will is one of the politest members here whom I don't think I've ever seen resort to name-calling.
Quote from: Char on July 29, 2014, 07:07:56 PM
In my opinion, yes. Don't conservatives like to rail against government jobs: it's a guaranteed job for the stupid (not to say all service members are)
I mean, what idiots overwhelmingly vote for dumbasses who put them in harm's way for a lie, who have them invade countries and kill civilians to protect the profits of multi nationals
What idiots have no marketable skills and choose the military as their only go to because it's their only option, and then have the audacity to lie about "Serving their country"
Again, this is not all of them, and I'm not saying SHO falls into this category but..
Quote from: Char on August 03, 2014, 09:00:08 PM
I didn't - Read the link. You're literally so full of shit, it's annoying to read your posts. You're almost as worthless as that military welfare queen, and that's pretty worthless. Automation DOES account for some of the increase in productivity, but with the expansion of computers, skilled workers are expected to do more without being compensated for their output. Try reading the links I posted, and feel free to post your own.
Quote from: MX793 on December 24, 2014, 12:11:55 PM
Not at all hard to find:
In response to someone politely disagreeing with your assertion that a GTI or CSi isn't fun to drive (whom in the immediately prior post you called "ridiculous"):
Or how about when you started referring to AutobahnSHO as a "military welfare queen" because he disagreed with your opinion? And I would point out that Will is one of the politest members here whom I don't think I've ever seen resort to name-calling.
Bruh, you mean that same thread where everyone questioned my experience with a VW, which lead up to this
Quote from: 2o6 on October 21, 2012, 05:18:05 PM
I think you're the ridiculous one.
Right - I started the personal attacks.
AutobahnSHO and I have a history that predates that thread, you're going to have to do better.
LOL "ridiculous one" is like 1/100 on the scale of personal attacks.
Quote from: Char on December 24, 2014, 12:21:41 PM
Bruh, you mean that same thread where everyone questioned my experience with a VW, which lead up to this
Questioning experience when someone shows up with a very strong negative opinion of something is not a personal attack.
Quote
Right - I started the personal attacks.
And in the post immediately prior to 2o6's:
Quote from: Char on October 21, 2012, 05:11:25 PM
No, it's obvious YOU haven't driven them.
Tell you what, post up a video of you doing a few Autocross runs in a GTI/SI; show me how competent they are.
Edit: Did you mention the almost 30k Mugen Civic Si? And what 30K cars does it outrun, a 4 cylinder Toyota Camry automatic? You are absolutely ridiculous.
So who started the name-calling and personal attacks indeed...
Quote
AutobahnSHO and I have a history that predates that thread, you're going to have to do better.
Show me one personal attack from AutobahnSHO.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 24, 2014, 12:23:29 PM
LOL "ridiculous one" is like 1/100 on the scale of personal attacks.
It is an attack, is it not?
Quote from: MX793 on December 24, 2014, 12:28:18 PM
Show me one personal attack from AutobahnSHO.
Will that shut you up? Give me a minute.
:popcorn:
Welcome back to lifetime and it's live coverage of a special holiday intervention.
Today we are visiting the members of the internet car community "Carspin" and their intervention of long time controversial member Char.
Born into abject middle class poverty. Char was raised by a loving mother and a hard working father. At an early age Char was fascinated with cars. At the tender age of 5 he had completed his first manifold swap. The result was a stunning 3.8 whp, accolades from around the country poured in it seemed his future was set. By high school he was easy to find hanging around local garages and turning wrenches. A once bright eyed and enthusiastic man was approaching a turning point. The tragic events of a warm summer evening would forever taint his once bright future. The love of his life had grown tired of Chars intense focus on cars and the continual lack of attention he showed the love of his life. After a long day at the shop tuning in a new set of plug wires, Char arrived to find his girlfriend carrying her belongings from their apartment. A brief but fueled encounter brought his life crashing down. In unbelievable shock, but somehow still running over his recent tuning session in his mind, the true gravity of the situation had yet to sit in. As he watched his girlfriend climb into the passenger seat of a tornado red vw gti, his eyes briefly glanced toward the drivers seat. What he saw was a dirty, long haired hippy. Sure to have been able to have swept up the love of his life due to his ample amount of time thanks to his carefree jobless hippy lifestyle.
Crushed, and never to fully recover, Char now spends most of his days dyno tuning base model 3 series cars and haunting internet forums with his anti VW rhetoric.
We know join the intervention in progress.
*This program is brought to you by VW, VW.......drivers wanted!!!
:hesaid:
Lol.
You gotta admit though Char has brought a lot of life to this place
I prefer SDV or FBC's dry wit to Chartard's unbridled teenage desperation
I want to laugh with not laugh at/feel pity for
This guy is hyping up a manifold swap like a moon landing. I did several on my old Accords (and netted much higher gains) and never talked about it... rightfully figured nobody cared
I would like to talk about making an aluminum sheet manifold without a TIG welder. Cuz I don't have one.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 24, 2014, 09:02:52 PM
I prefer SDV or FBC's dry wit to Chartard's unbridled teenage desperation
SDV?
Soup
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 24, 2014, 09:24:05 PM
I would like to talk about making an aluminum sheet manifold without a TIG welder. Cuz I don't have one.
3-d printer brah
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 24, 2014, 11:19:08 PM
3-d printer brah
Don't have one of those, either. How much does one of those run with an aluminum ink cartridge?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 24, 2014, 09:02:52 PM
I prefer SDV or FBC's dry wit to Chartard's unbridled teenage desperation
I want to laugh with not laugh at/feel pity for
This guy is hyping up a manifold swap like a moon landing. I did several on my old Accords (and netted much higher gains) and never talked about it... rightfully figured nobody cared
Don't feel bad for me, I never felt the need to lie to bolster my standing in any conversation (like what you're doing now).
Show me a dyno if YOU personally gaining 15whp+ on your H22 Accord and I'll walk away from this forum.
You're literally are one of the dumbest people on this forum, and you make an excuse for your own very existence if you could. You can't own a real car because you don't have self control? You sound like a fucking child with that type of logic. You spent 3 pages defending an illogical position because you couldn't admit I was right, and you want to call childish?
Quote from: Char on December 25, 2014, 05:27:15 PM
Don't feel bad for me, I never felt the need to lie to bolster my standing in any conversation (like what you're doing now).
Show me a dyno if YOU personally gaining 15whp+ on your H22 Accord and I'll walk away from this forum.
You're literally are one of the dumbest people on this forum, and you make an excuse for your own very existence if you could. You can't own a real car because you don't have self control? You sound like a fucking child with that type of logic. You spent 3 pages defending an illogical position because you couldn't admit I was right, and you want to call childish?
I sound like a child lol. You are truly something special.
Sorry, I dont have dyno sheets from a car I owned literally 10 years ago. Can you?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 25, 2014, 06:36:37 PM
I sound like a child lol. You are truly something special.
Sorry, I dont have dyno sheets from a car I owned literally 10 years ago. Can you?
Yes I can.
In fact, show me a H22 like yours with an intake manifold swap only gaining 15whp. Show me something, anything, so everyone can see how you're a childish, lying sack of crap who will say anything in an attempt to discredit anyone, regardless of it based in fact or not.
This is boring.
Quote from: Char on December 25, 2014, 07:11:35 PM
Yes I can.
In fact, show me a H22 like yours with an intake manifold swap only gaining 15whp. Show me something, anything, so everyone can see how you're a childish, lying sack of crap who will say anything in an attempt to discredit anyone, regardless of it based in fact or not.
Wasn't on an H22 :)
And you're moving the goalposts already. Surprise surprise
:nyd:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 25, 2014, 07:27:57 PM
Wasn't on an H22 :)
And you're moving the goalposts already. Surprise surprise
F22/F23/H23. It wasn't a K series nor was it a J30/35, so find a chart and show me. You can't provide your own ( probably which never existed) so post someone elses.
Then again, you can barely change your own oil, so getting you to read a dynograph must be a bit of a stretch.
Last Active:December 25, 2014, 08:45:03 pm
Still waiting on that Sport.
Why do you give so much of a fuck?
Char, you're still posting pics of other owner's dynos in your own build thread. Stop being such a miserable little fuck about life.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 23, 2014, 07:54:59 PM
You guys are all being idiots IMO. He does dyno and work on his car. What's wrong with that?
Small correction, he pays someone else to work on his car and then posts pics of them dyno'ing third party cars.
But whatever floats his boat I guess. :huh:
Char's anger, running with goal posts and emotional investment has been a nice Xmas bonus
And sorry Chartard, no dynos (never had one done of that car), or pics at all actually... Imagestation has been dead for about 7 years now and thats where all my pictures were. I guess I'm lying about the whole thing
I tell u wat tho, if u can make a convincing case as to why anyone should take anything you say seriously I will walk away from these forums forever. U keep throwing out insults and making continually changing demands but u havent really demonstrated why anyone should listen
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 24, 2014, 08:24:45 AM
Of course the BMW thing colors it for me. We got clubs you know. But they're getting empty for superior VW tech as you all know........but I digress.
To be honest, his latest comments on this thread were quite reasonable, I definitely agree that E90 maintenance is nothing to be afraid of (with the N/A engines) and would likely be less troublesome in the long run than a GTI of the same vintage. Char-bashing is now a thing here, I understand where it originally comes from, but I think we would be past that now.
I also definitely think that the driving experience of an E90 325i is superior to a same year GTI, the cars are in different segments for a reason + RWD > FWD in the end. Lots of criticism of "base" 3 series here. Frankly, the base 3 is one of the best 3s generally. And what you get isn't even base. A 316i, that's base.
BMWs never had a reputation for being unreliable, they have a reputation for being expensive to own/repair.
The new 328 stickers for $37.5 while the GTi costs you all of 25. They simply aren't, and never have been, the same class of car.
Those are two of the most glaring points that Char repeatedly fails to grasp every time he starts tilting at windmills.
Quote from: Tave on December 26, 2014, 07:05:23 AM
BMWs never had a reputation for being unreliable, they have a reputation for being expensive to own/repair.
The new 328 stickers for $37.5 while the GTi costs you all of 25. They simply aren't, and never have been, the same class of car.
Those are two of the most glaring points that Char repeatedly fails to grasp every time he starts tilting at windmills.
I of course agree about these cars being in different classes, but I asked Sporty about used prices and he said the 3er and the GTI would cost the same for the years he was looking at.
Then, I believe the maintenance costs for the (N/A) bimmer would be very competitive with the turbo GTI.
And Tave all the time people here talk about used bimmers as if they are ticking time bombs.
Still kind of missing the point though.
Plus if I were to go the sport sedan route, like I said, I'd probably rather do a G35. More everything for the same money. Char himself said he would go with something VQ powered but then had some BS reasoning for why he went with a Bimmer instead.
Like I said if I can't enjoy a car the way its meant to be enjoyed I dont want it. I have been here for almost 2 years, had the Z for about a year and a half and have only done 1 track day (in someone else's cars). Even if I do track it it won't be regularly enough to warrant it as an only car. Its a waste on the street, we are a bad combo. GTI was a fun street car, but one with the mileage and at the price I want does not look feasible ATM. I'm going to check out a Civic Si sedan today. I am feeling like that will be a better balance and it's at the price and mileage I want. I need to drive a Mazda3 and maybe a 6 as well to see how those are too. TSX is also a good look. That's the type of car I'm looking at.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 26, 2014, 07:11:13 AM
And Tave all the time people here talk about used bimmers as if they are ticking time bombs.
I think that's related more to the cost of repair than the frequency of failure. People don't expect any used car to be 100% trouble free.
FWIW the E90 328i is on CR's recommended used car list. GTI is on its list of cars to avoid. But then, so is the E90 325/330i :confused:. Wifey's Rabbit has been fine but I think I'm gonna stick with the Japanese
Quote from: Tave on December 26, 2014, 06:32:02 AM
Char, you're still posting pics of other owner's dynos in your own build thread. Stop being such a miserable little fuck about life.
You incompetent fuck, I've posted a dyno of my car.
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 07:45:46 AM
You incompetent fuck, I've posted a dyno of my car.
In all fairness, maybe he didn't see the ONE dyno of your car buried amongst the dozens of other random unrelated dyno's that you bombed the thread with.
Also, I hope you do realize that most people probably just glance over your posts and don't actually read them.
So unless you actually put in large font bold letters that "THIS IS ACTUALLY A DYNO OF MY CAR, IGNORE PREVIOUS 32 POSTED DYNOS" most people might have missed it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 07:01:55 AM
Char's anger, running with goal posts and emotional investment has been a nice Xmas bonus
And sorry Chartard, no dynos (never had one done of that car), or pics at all actually... Imagestation has been dead for about 7 years now and thats where all my pictures were. I guess I'm lying about the whole thing
I tell u wat tho, if u can make a convincing case as to why anyone should take anything you say seriously I will walk away from these forums forever. U keep throwing out insults and making continually changing demands but u havent really demonstrated why anyone should listen
Moving goal post? You made a claim that you have yet to substantiate: I offered you a chance to prove me wrong by posting your own dyno (which never existed) You couldn't. I even offered you to post someone else's - you couldn't even do that.
This thread us literally a repeat of every single thread we've participated in on carspin. You take a poorly thought out position and get upset when the house of cards falls down. That's not really an issue with me, it sounds like you could take a few more moments to think before you post.
btw, still waiting on those Charts.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 26, 2014, 07:48:37 AM
In all fairness, maybe he didn't see the ONE dyno of your car buried amongst the dozens of other random unrelated dyno's that you bombed the thread with.
Also, I hope you do realize that most people probably just glance over your posts and don't actually read them.
So unless you actually put in large font bold letters that "THIS IS ACTUALLY A DYNO OF MY CAR, IGNORE PREVIOUS 32 POSTED DYNOS" most people might have missed it.
I'll stand by my statement.
Not my problem he didn't research correctly.
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 07:45:46 AM
You incompetent fuck, I've posted a dyno of my car.
Maybe you have, maybe you haven't, regardless you are still posting pictures of other people's dynos in your own build thread. Here are some of the most recent comments:
Quote from: Char on December 16, 2014, 10:28:54 AM
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7508/16035689042_f4c906edf7_h.jpg)
Final numbers.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 16, 2014, 10:33:34 AM
Nice man.
Quote from: Char on December 16, 2014, 10:40:23 AM
Not me, not yet. My final number will be close (hopefully).
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 07:55:49 AM
Moving goal post? You made a claim that you have yet to substantiate: I offered you a chance to prove me wrong by posting your own dyno (which never existed) You couldn't. I even offered you to post someone else's - you couldn't even do that.
Other people have done the mod and dyno'd it.... you can peruse through the millions of posts on CB7Tuner and Honda-tech to find it. Since they were also done ~8-10 years ago it's gonna be hard to find those charts as well. I know that mod netted a ~25-30whp gain at the fuel cutoff.... whether or not you believe me is of no consequence to me.
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 07:55:49 AM
This thread us literally a repeat of every single thread we've participated in on carspin. You take a poorly thought out position and get upset when the house of cards falls down. That's not really an issue with me, it sounds like you could take a few more moments to think before you post.
btw, still waiting on those Charts.
You spent two hours on Xmas day waiting, goading, begging for someone to respond to you on the internet. You have spent a few months raging about people buying/liking a brand of cars you don't. You have made various "ultimatums" and changed the requirements when the outcome wasn't convenient. Who is upset here? Lol.
For all your tantrum throwing and keyboard bashing you still are unable to answer very basic questions. Like... if we are all such idiots who don't know cars, why do you post here? Or, if you are so knowledgeable and experienced, why does everyone here consider you a complete joke? Or, who cares about your manifold swap that you were hyping up like the sequel to the Manhattan Project? Etc. etc.
To be fair, it's actually his "tuner's" intake swap and ECU re flash that he's hyping as the next Manhatten project. So far there's no evidence that he ever touched either or that either are even attached to his car.
Sidebet: if he did participate, I'd wager that his contribution was hacking apart that plastic airbox and duct taping it back together. That seems to be the level of sophistication we are dealing with.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 07:34:27 AM
FWIW the E90 328i is on CR's recommended used car list. GTI is on its list of cars to avoid. But then, so is the E90 325/330i :confused:. Wifey's Rabbit has been fine but I think I'm gonna stick with the Japanese
You're looking for logic and consistency from Consumer Distorts? The same magazine that gives (or rather, used to give, before people stated calling them out on it) wildly different ratings on badge engineered versions of the SAME car? Just remember, even though the refuse to admit it, Consumer Distorts has an agenda, too.
Quote from: Tave on December 26, 2014, 07:58:30 AM
Maybe you have, maybe you haven't, regardless you are still posting pictures of other people's dynos in your own build thread. Here are some of the most recent comments:
You mean that same thread where you asked
Quote from: Tave on November 13, 2014, 10:55:20 AM
Who is this "we" that has continually been referenced throughout the thread?
And I responded
Quote from: Char on November 13, 2014, 02:18:00 PM
Or my tuner and myself, but your theory works too!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 08:35:21 AM
Other people have done the mod and dyno'd it.... you can peruse through the millions of posts on CB7Tuner and Honda-tech to find it. Since they were also done ~8-10 years ago it's gonna be hard to find those charts as well. I know that mod netted a ~25-30whp gain at the fuel cutoff.... whether or not you believe me is of no consequence to me.
You spent two hours on Xmas day waiting, goading, begging for someone to respond to you on the internet. You have spent a few months raging about people buying/liking a brand of cars you don't. You have made various "ultimatums" and changed the requirements when the outcome wasn't convenient. Who is upset here? Lol.
For all your tantrum throwing and keyboard bashing you still are unable to answer very basic questions. Like... if we are all such idiots who don't know cars, why do you post here? Or, if you are so knowledgeable and experienced, why does everyone here consider you a complete joke? Or, who cares about your manifold swap that you were hyping up like the sequel to the Manhattan Project? Etc. etc.
I'm a member of CB7 tuner, I owned a 4th generation accord - never came across these mystical 25whp gains on any F22/23/H23 - EVER. So no, I don't believe you, and yes I do think you're full of shit. You talk about me throwing a tantrum on the internet, yet you got so butthurt that you requested to be banned from the forum and eventually came back under a different name. You're literally the most emotional person I've ever met on a forum, and you have some nerve projecting your feeling/attitude/behavior on me.
Quote from: Madman on December 26, 2014, 08:52:34 AM
You're looking for logic and consistency from Consumer Distorts? The same magazine that gives (or rather, used to give, before people stated calling them out on it) wildly different ratings on badge engineered versions of the SAME car? Just remember, even though the refuse to admit it, Consumer Distorts has an agenda, too.
Is that so? Give me some examples.
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 08:54:57 AM
You mean that same thread where you asked
And I responded
Yes Char, your "build" thread where your "tuner" shows you how to attach a CAI and you post the dynos of his actual paying customers while you wait and wait and wait and wait for months to complete a project most teenagers can do in their driveways under 3 hours. That's exactly the thread I'm talking about. Glad we're on the same page now.
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 08:54:57 AM
I'm a member of CB7 tuner, I owned a 4th generation accord - never came across these mystical 25whp gains on any F22/23/H23 - EVER. So no, I don't believe you, and yes I do think you're full of shit. You talk about me throwing a tantrum on the internet, yet you got so butthurt that you requested to be banned from the forum and eventually came back under a different name. You're literally the most emotional person I've ever met on a forum, and you have some nerve projecting your feeling/attitude/behavior on me.
More deflections *yawn*
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 08:59:37 AM
Is that so? Give me some examples.
Specific examples are hard to come by because CR is a federally registered trademark and all of their content is copyright protected. CR's legal department has been known to AGGRESSIVELY go after any publication or organisation who dares to question the validity of their testing methods or survey results.
One of the most famous examples is the website Allpar, an enthusiast site dedicated to all things Chrysler. When Allpar pointed out specific examples of CR's inconsistencies, they were slapped with a cease and desist order from CR's lawyers. Allpar kept the article on their site but removed the names of the specific car models mentioned by CR in order to avoid a potentially ruinous lawsuit. Here is the revised and edited article for reference.
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html (http://www.allpar.com/cr.html)
If I remember correctly, the three badge engineered cars in the article with wildly different ratings were the Diamond-Star triplets; Talon, Laser and Eclipse. All three were the same car built in the same factory by the same people from the same components. And yet the Mitsubishi scored significantly higher than the Plymouth or the Eagle. Consumer Distorts (and their lawyers) have been trying to bury these (and other similar) inconsistencies for years, It is worth noting, soon after the Allpar article came out, CR started lumping badge engineered versions of the same car together so as to avoid embarrassing themselves in the future.
The way a survey is conducted, and even the various different ways the same question can be asked, will affect the outcome of a survey.
The New York Times have discovered this, too...
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/why-consumer-reports-and-j-d-power-are-so-different/?_r=0 (http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/why-consumer-reports-and-j-d-power-are-so-different/?_r=0)
Also take note of how CR often abruptly changes their minds about certain cars mid-stream. Car that were once on their "Recommended" list suddenly being pulled from that list when major problems rear their ugly head. Maybe they wouldn't have to do this if they would stop recommending all-new models that have no proven track record to support their recommendation?
Those DSM cars are like 20 years old. That's irrelevant. And some of their gripes (i.e. different engines/trims having different reliabilities) have been addressed- hence the Rabbit being recommended and the GTI being avoided.
CR & JD are not comparable either as CR looks at long term reliability and JD looks at initial quality.
For proof of CR's validity though, for the most part CR's recommendations line up with TrueDelta's reliability surveys, which sought out to address a lot of CR's flaws.
So sorry, multiple data sources still show that cars like Saabs and Volvos are POSs (which is your real gripe, lets be honest).
Quote from: Tave on December 26, 2014, 09:20:54 AM
Yes Char, your "build" thread where your "tuner" shows you how to attach a CAI and you post the dynos of his actual paying customers while you wait and wait and wait and wait for months to complete a project most teenagers can do in their driveways under 3 hours. That's exactly the thread I'm talking about. Glad we're on the same page now.
So most teenagers can pay $1300 for headers and a retune, plus find time to spend install headers without a lift in 3 hours? WOW, I should probably hire a few kids to help me out, or better yet, hireyou because you have so much exper...oh wait.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 09:32:50 AM
More deflections *yawn*
You don't have shit. You can't come up with 1 dyno?
You're a useless, incompetent lying douche.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 10:01:18 AM
Those DSM cars are like 20 years old. That's irrelevant. And some of their gripes (i.e. different engines/trims having different reliabilities) have been addressed- hence the Rabbit being recommended and the GTI being avoided.
CR & JD are not comparable either as CR looks at long term reliability and JD looks at initial quality.
For proof of CR's validity though, for the most part CR's recommendations line up with TrueDelta's reliability surveys, which sought out to address a lot of CR's flaws.
So sorry, multiple data sources still show that cars like Saabs and Volvos are POSs (which is your real gripe, lets be honest).
So, one flawed survey lines up with another equally flawed survey? And THAT is you proof of validity?
Try asking Consumer Distorts to release their raw data for independent analysis. You know as well as I do they will NEVER agree to that!
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 10:01:54 AM
So most teenagers can pay $1300 for headers and a retune, plus find time to spend install headers without a lift in 3 hours? WOW, I should probably hire a few kids to help me out, or better yet, hireyou because you have so much exper...oh wait.
Oh so they already installed your CAI for you? Rock on bro! :rockon:
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 10:01:54 AM
So most teenagers can pay $1300 for headers and a retune, plus find time to spend install headers without a lift in 3 hours? WOW, I should probably hire a few kids to help me out, or better yet, hireyou because you have so much exper...oh wait.
Lol I work 60+ hours a week, and on weekends, and I still had time to knock out a full exhaust install on my car in a dark, narrow garage without a lift.
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 10:01:54 AM
So most teenagers can pay $1300 for headers and a retune, plus find time to spend install headers without a lift in 3 hours? WOW, I should probably hire a few kids to help me out, or better yet, hireyou because you have so much exper...oh wait.
You don't have shit. You can't come up with 1 dyno?
You're a useless, incompetent lying douche.
I thought you were going to achieve all this power out of your car for mere pennies. 1300 dollar headers, intake swaps, multiple tuning sessions, etc. Sounds pretty pricey to me.
Should have just saved that money up and bought up into a better car.
All for a measly what... 240WHP? AKA what a cheaper more reliable G35 6MT puts down stock? Lol.
Quote from: thecarnut on December 26, 2014, 10:29:03 AM
Lol I work 60+ hours a week, and on weekends, and I still had time to knock out a full exhaust install on my car in a dark, narrow garage without a lift.
Bullshit asshole. Char paid a mechanic to slap some bolt-ons on his engine so he clearly knows more about cars than us.
Quote from: Madman on December 26, 2014, 10:18:53 AM
So, one flawed survey lines up with another equally flawed survey? And THAT is you proof of validity?
Try asking Consumer Distorts to release their raw data for independent analysis. You know as well as I do they will NEVER agree to that!
A flawed survey still has some level of validity. I.e. on average Volvos are more problematic than Toyotas. You dont need a reliability survey to see that. Just look at used car classifieds. See how many high mileage cars of one brand there are vs another and how cars of similar classes and mileages compare price wise. Thats the market at work with zero bias, and that data generally aligns with these "flawed" surveys. So no, no vindication for your quirky auto tastes, at least in the mainstream.... Saab went out of business and Volvo is in dire straits for good reason
Quote from: thecarnut on December 26, 2014, 10:29:03 AM
Lol I work 60+ hours a week, and on weekends, and I still had time to knock out a full exhaust install on my car in a dark, narrow garage without a lift.
When since an
exhaust is the same as installing
headers on a car?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 10:38:27 AM
All for a measly what... 240WHP? AKA what a cheaper more reliable G35 6MT puts down stock? Lol.
I didn't want a G35.
Did you find those charts for me yet GloryAccordy? I know you logged today and still haven't found anything?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 10:47:52 AM
A flawed survey still has some level of validity. I.e. on average Volvos are more problematic than Toyotas. You dont need a reliability survey to see that. Just look at used car classifieds. See how many high mileage cars of one brand there are vs another and how cars of similar classes and mileages compare price wise. Thats the market at work with zero bias, and that data generally aligns with these "flawed" surveys. So no, no vindication for your quirky auto tastes, at least in the mainstream.... Saab went out of business and Volvo is in dire straits for good reason
When did I ever mention anything about Volvo or Saab in regards to CR's survey methodology? We all know Saab went bust due to GM flogging them off to a chronically underfunded buyer after two decades of mismanagement. Volvo's problems are largely of their own making, with some of the blame being shared by Ford and Geely. But what the hell does any of this have to do with Consumer Distorts? Are you implying CR is somehow responsible for Saab's demise and Volvo's current malaise? Only a lunatic would make such an allegation.
The thing I despise about Consumer Distorts most of all is their holier-than-thou attitude and the insinuation that their opinion is the be-all-and end-all of automotive wisdom. They cry form the mountaintops "We don't accept outside advertising so, therefore, our findings are irrefutable and beyond reproach". Never mind they have their own agenda and just because they don't accept outside advertising doesn't necessarily mean they're not still full of shit.
:popcorn:
http://my-bmw-sucks.com/ (http://my-bmw-sucks.com/)
I'm sure he'll be going back to VW after that wonderful experience.
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 11:14:10 AM
When since an exhaust is the same as installing headers on a car?
And in yet another display of automotive brilliance, Masterbuilder Char fails to realize that headers are a component of a car's exhaust system...
But don't count him out yet, CarSPIN, he still knows how to copy and paste dyno graphs!
Meanwhile, this BMW owner seems to get it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGzPpU4JZio (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGzPpU4JZio)
Quote from: Tave on December 26, 2014, 11:41:19 AM
And in yet another display of automotive brilliance, Masterbuilder Char fails to realize that headers are a component of a car's exhaust system...
:lol: The Car Nut clearly said
Full Exhaust!
Not only are the owners waking up and leaving in droves but even the management wants to move on to the winning team.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/bmw-rd-chief-moves-to-vw-group-will-lead-volkswagen-cars/ (http://blog.caranddriver.com/bmw-rd-chief-moves-to-vw-group-will-lead-volkswagen-cars/)
Quote from: Char on December 26, 2014, 11:14:10 AM
When since an exhaust is the same as installing headers on a car?
:facepalm:
Quote from: Tave on December 26, 2014, 11:41:19 AM
And in yet another display of automotive brilliance, Masterbuilder Char fails to realize that headers are a component of a car's exhaust system...
But don't count him out yet, CarSPIN, he still knows how to copy and paste dyno graphs!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on December 26, 2014, 12:03:08 PM
:lol: The Car Nut clearly said Full Exhaust!
You really are a dumb fucking idiot, aren't you?
Full exhaust = PPE longtube header, midpipe and muffler. Just to spell it out for you.
Test drove a regular Civic and an Si
Si was playful and rambunctious but it was also loud and rough riding. It was more fun but I can see it becoming old on my commute. I think a Civic EX sedan could work. I definitely want to drive a Mazda3 now. I think that would strike the perfect balance.
Quote from: Tave on December 26, 2014, 11:41:19 AM
And in yet another display of automotive brilliance, Masterbuilder Char fails to realize that headers are a component of a car's exhaust system...
But don't count him out yet, CarSPIN, he still knows how to copy and paste dyno graphs!
Here we go, another person who doesn't work on cars, doesn't even drive a real car, trying to be an internet smart ass. When he says exhaust, he's obviously (for most people who modify cars) talking about an exhaust system that starts AT the exhaust manifold OR the secondary catalyst. On a BMW, an exhaust system is just a muffler. It just depends.
Go back to dragging your knuckles and drooling.
Hey char, don't fall into their trap.
They just hatin!!! They don't understand the bmw lifestyle.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 26, 2014, 12:44:53 PM
Hey char, don't fall into their trap.
They just hatin!!! They don't understand the bmw lifestyle.
Oh the hate is real, but you can't throw salt on this game. :rastaman: :mrcool:
Indeed, nobody here could afford a $10K BMW or has the means to pay a shop to do a (very) mild build
Working on cars is clearly an art limited to a chosen few
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 01:03:39 PM
Indeed, nobody here could afford a $10K BMW or has the means to pay a shop to do a (very) mild build
Working on cars is clearly an art limited to a chosen few
LOL at 10K BMW! Cool story bro, now I guess you should have no problem affording one - right?
Who is paying anyone to work on my car? Surely this isn't the same guy who paid to have his brakes bled (improperly, and didn't go back and have them do it right) after he was too much of a pussy to do it himself, you're not that guy, are you?
I mean, there are things I just won't do. I have no desire to sit underneath my car with jack-stands trying to access the waterpump - or bruise my knuckles trying to articulate my arms to the proper angle to under the bolts of the exhaust manifold. More power to those who want to do it - I can, but I won't.
There is nothing a real car guy won't do himself when it comes to maintenance or mods. What a pussy ass poser
Absolutely nothing wrong with paying someone to work on your car.
Pretending that you did it yourself, and using it as an excuse to talk down to others...well that's a different story.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 07:25:43 AM
Still kind of missing the point though.
Plus if I were to go the sport sedan route, like I said, I'd probably rather do a G35. More everything for the same money. Char himself said he would go with something VQ powered but then had some BS reasoning for why he went with a Bimmer instead.
Like I said if I can't enjoy a car the way its meant to be enjoyed I dont want it. I have been here for almost 2 years, had the Z for about a year and a half and have only done 1 track day (in someone else's cars). Even if I do track it it won't be regularly enough to warrant it as an only car. Its a waste on the street, we are a bad combo. GTI was a fun street car, but one with the mileage and at the price I want does not look feasible ATM. I'm going to check out a Civic Si sedan today. I am feeling like that will be a better balance and it's at the price and mileage I want. I need to drive a Mazda3 and maybe a 6 as well to see how those are too. TSX is also a good look. That's the type of car I'm looking at.
The Z isn't a track car, I don't know why you insist on having to do track days to justify the purchase. :huh:
I put my bug shield on all by myself, and I had tons of left over hardware. #skillstopaythebills
I'm getting new aluminum heads for less than $1300 and they'll net me way more than a silly header.
Pfft, working on your car ain't shit.
Real car guys go all the way....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0S642NtHtE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0S642NtHtE)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 26, 2014, 12:20:23 PM
Test drove a regular Civic and an Si
Si was playful and rambunctious but it was also loud and rough riding. It was more fun but I can see it becoming old on my commute. I think a Civic EX sedan could work. I definitely want to drive a Mazda3 now. I think that would strike the perfect balance.
I rode in an acquaintance's new Civic and really liked it. Surprisingly roomy, too.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 26, 2014, 01:26:54 PM
The Z isn't a track car, I don't know why you insist on having to do track days to justify the purchase. :huh:
:hesaid:
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 26, 2014, 01:33:18 PM
I'm getting new aluminum heads for less than $1300 and they'll net me way more than a silly header.
When's the 400 crank going in?
Quote from: 68_427 on December 26, 2014, 01:39:16 PM
When's the 400 crank going in?
Never. Gonna stop at heads + cam. Anything more than that and I'd rather get an LS3.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 26, 2014, 01:40:22 PM
Never. Gonna stop at heads + cam. Anything more than that and I'd rather get an LSX-R.
Makes sense
Quote from: Tave on December 26, 2014, 01:23:25 PM
Absolutely nothing wrong with paying someone to work on your car.
Pretending that you did it yourself, and using it as an excuse to talk down to others...well that's a different story.
Where did I do that? I'm capable of doing it - I don't WANT to do it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 24, 2014, 09:02:52 PM
I prefer SDV or FBC's dry wit to Chartard's unbridled teenage desperation
I want to laugh with not laugh at/feel pity for
This guy is hyping up a manifold swap like a moon landing. I did several on my old Accords (and netted much higher gains) and never talked about it... rightfully figured nobody cared
That might be the nicest thing anybody has ever said about me.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 26, 2014, 01:26:54 PM
The Z isn't a track car, I don't know why you insist on having to do track days to justify the purchase. :huh:
Track is the only place I can use its full performance responsibly and for sustained periods. W/o that it's a pretty bad car for the kind and quantity of driving I do. Maybe later if I have the money and time but for now Im good.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 26, 2014, 01:33:18 PM
I'm getting new aluminum heads for less than $1300 and they'll net me way more than a silly header.
With more displacement and more money spent, I should hope so.
So why do you guys keep feeding? He knows next to nothing and has spent all this time and money limping along a "BMW" that would do nothing but eat V6 Camcord taillights.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 26, 2014, 02:13:27 PM
So why do you guys keep feeding? He knows next to nothing and has spent all this time and money limping along a "BMW" that would do nothing but eat V6 Camcord taillights.
You're right - wheel dynos are fake and you can't improve on factory parts. Why do we try?
Quote from: GoCougs on December 26, 2014, 02:13:27 PM
So why do you guys keep feeding? He knows next to nothing and has spent all this time and money limping along a "BMW" that would do nothing but eat V6 Camcord taillights.
:lol:
Quote from: GoCougs on December 26, 2014, 02:13:27 PM
So why do you guys keep feeding? He knows next to nothing and has spent all this time and money limping along a "BMW" that would do nothing but eat V6 Camcord taillights.
Most modding, even if it does gain any appreciable power, is mostly done to change the character of the car, by changing the sound, throttle reponse, handling, or even the power curve. I had a dyno tune done on my old SVT Focus to optimize power throughout the rev range and to get rid of a weird surge that all SVTFs suffer at highway cruising speeds. In the end the dyno tune provided a gain of 8 peak hp, but in the midrange of the curve I had as much as a 25 hp improvement. 0-60 improved by 2 tenths of a second, but it was the rolling start that really improved by nearly a full second. Gas mileage suffered though. I met another guy here with an SVTF and he drove my car and immediately had the same tune loaded because of how different the car put the power down. I changed the shifter and rear motor mount and my shifting speed, accuracy, and smoothness improved dramatically. The engine mount transmitted more NVH, and that changed the character of the car (for the better IMO) without doing anything for actual performance.
Doesn't answer why people keep entertaining Char. He makes a great case for a much improved ignore system. All ignores should go two ways (i.e. both posters can't see each other's posts at all, or posts quoting the other poster).
Also doesn't answer why he hyped up a few rudimentary mods to be the second coming. When I hear "build" I think something more comprehensive than an intake manifold, headers and a dyno tune. Me changing my radio, headlights and brakes was a more comprehensive "build"
I agree that he's overhyping some fairly minor mods, but combined they could make a noticeable difference. Throw in a ported and polished head and now you would be talking about the start to a nice build. A PnP'd head with bigger valves and a Stage 2 camshaft in addition to what he has done would actually yield some pretty impressive results.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 27, 2014, 02:21:48 PM
Doesn't answer why people keep entertaining Char. He makes a great case for a much improved ignore system. All ignores should go two ways (i.e. both posters can't see each other's posts at all, or posts quoting the other poster).
Also doesn't answer why he hyped up a few rudimentary mods to be the second coming. When I hear "build" I think something more comprehensive than an intake manifold, headers and a dyno tune. Me changing my radio, headlights and brakes was a more comprehensive "build"
Aren't you the one who engages him the most?
Quote from: Rupert on December 27, 2014, 04:35:26 PM
Aren't you the one who engages him the most?
12,000 RPM: "ya....but.....char started it"
Quote from: Rupert on December 27, 2014, 04:35:26 PM
Aren't you the one who engages him the most?
fair point
Quote from: SVT666 on December 27, 2014, 04:12:12 PM
I agree that he's overhyping some fairly minor mods, but combined they could make a noticeable difference. Throw in a ported and polished head and now you would be talking about the start to a nice build. A PnP'd head with bigger valves and a Stage 2 camshaft in addition to what he has done would actually yield some pretty impressive results.
LOL, Sporty is an idiot, let me set the record straight.
I'm hyping my intake manifold swap that
I did back at the beginning of this year before you even knew what car I owned? I'm hyping a modification that essentially makes as much as 25whp? You know how many people would KILL for 25whp in any platform? Your shitty F22 wasn't gaining 25whp with an intake manifold swap.
The only other thing engine wise I'm doing to my car is headers and a dynotune instead of updating through my flash loader. FBO gains are over
45WHP. I don't know about you guys, but 45whp gains on a n/A car without touching internals is AWESOME.
Carry on with your blatant lies and stupidity.
Arff Arff
Quote from: Char on December 27, 2014, 09:39:22 PM
LOL, Sporty is an idiot, let me set the record straight.
I'm hyping my intake manifold swap that I did back at the beginning of this year before you even knew what car I owned? I'm hyping a modification that essentially makes as much as 25whp? You know how many people would KILL for 25whp in any platform? Your shitty F22 wasn't gaining 25whp with an intake manifold swap.
The only other thing engine wise I'm doing to my car is headers and a dynotune instead of updating through my flash loader. FBO gains are over 45WHP. I don't know about you guys, but 45whp gains on a n/A car without touching internals is AWESOME.
Carry on with your blatant lies and stupidity.
Just to help some of these slow fools along. It might help them if you go over to your build thread and post a baseline dyno, a dyno showing the 25whp intake and then the 45whp dyno from the header.
A 70whp gain, with dynos for visual comparison will surely shut those fools up.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 27, 2014, 10:01:42 PM
Just to help some of these slow fools along. It might help them if you go over to your build thread and post a baseline dyno, a dyno showing the 25whp intake and then the 45whp dyno from the header.
A 70whp gain, with dynos for visual comparison will surely shut those fools up.
45WHP gain WITH headers. FBO = Full bolt on. I already posted the dyno charts of such in my build thread.
So 45whp from intake manifold, headers/exhaust and a tune?
I figured it would have been a bit more.
Found a CPO 09 Civic EX, 5spd, 4dr, black/grey, 78K miles, 11K. Hopefully Ill pick it up next week or so
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 27, 2014, 10:07:26 PM
So 45whp from intake manifold, headers/exhaust and a tune?
I figured it would have been a bit more.
If you say so.
1) stock 207 whp - 190 wtq
2) AA tune 219 whp - 204 wtq
3) 3 stage with AA tune 233 whp - wtq 222
(http://www.e90post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1117533&stc=1&d=1415912989)
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 27, 2014, 10:07:26 PM
So 45whp from intake manifold, headers/exhaust and a tune?
I figured it would have been a bit more.
That sounds about right. That's about what my Mustang gained from the same mods. I had to go heads, cams, and more to get into real huge gains.
Quote from: Char on December 27, 2014, 10:24:57 PM
If you say so.
(http://www.e90post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1117533&stc=1&d=1415912989)
You have a 128 too?
Cool
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 27, 2014, 10:26:17 PM
You have a 128 too?
Cool
Too be clear, you didn't ask for MY dyno.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 27, 2014, 10:24:09 PM
Found a CPO 09 Civic EX, 5spd, 4dr, black/grey, 78K miles, 11K. Hopefully Ill pick it up next week or so
Wifey ok with 5 spd?
25 or 45 WHP from a "tune" or "bolt ons" on a 180 hp motor? LOL NO.
Parts were overnighted from Dusseldorf.
I don't believe the 45 whp bit myself. I'm looking at maybe 15 whp more with my header/midpipe/exhaust and tune. Unless poorly designed from the factory, I really don't think you're picking much up from an intake either. Yeah, my car has less horsepower, but even from a percentage basis that's a huge amount of power to be made from bolt ons and a tune.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 27, 2014, 10:50:17 PM
Wifey ok with 5 spd?
We talked about it. Basically, when we go out now, we will take her car instead of mine. Had a DUI scare not long ago :mask:, I passed though. Also, compared to the Z, the Civic's stickshift interface is damn near toy-like, so it would be much easier for her to learn than in the Z. Z is damn near like an old Lamborghini by comparison, all the controls are heavy as fuck.
Next step is to get a loan and go see the car. It's 100 miles away :banghead:
So... keeping Z...?
Holding onto it until tax time, then dumping it onto some drift kid. It still drives excellent for what it is. Knock on wood it's never left me stranded or anything.
Accord wagon
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4790396984.html (http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4790396984.html)
That thing is beat to shit and old AF no thx
06 Civic is basically a modern version of that Accord anyway which works for me.
Well used GTI VR6 ruined by euro-ricer: $1800
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4788326614.html (http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4788326614.html)
Seeing more shit spew from Char's keyboard: priceless
Quote from: thecarnut on December 28, 2014, 12:51:24 AM
I don't believe the 45 whp bit myself. I'm looking at maybe 15 whp more with my header/midpipe/exhaust and tune. Unless poorly designed from the factory, I really don't think you're picking much up from an intake either. Yeah, my car has less horsepower, but even from a percentage basis that's a huge amount of power to be made from bolt ons and a tune.
People KILL for gains like Char's.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 28, 2014, 04:43:13 AM
We talked about it. Basically, when we go out now, we will take her car instead of mine. Had a DUI scare not long ago :mask:, I passed though. Also, compared to the Z, the Civic's stickshift interface is damn near toy-like, so it would be much easier for her to learn than in the Z. Z is damn near like an old Lamborghini by comparison, all the controls are heavy as fuck.
Next step is to get a loan and go see the car. It's 100 miles away :banghead:
I agree. Honda clutches are so nice and forgiving, and their shifters are (were?) the best in the business. By comparison, my dad's G37S (which is pretty much the same thing as your Z) has a very heavy clutch and slightly notchy/heavy shifter as well. I think your wife would be able to learn far better on a Civic. My brother tried learning on the G37 and said it was too scary. :lol:
Quote from: thecarnut on December 28, 2014, 12:51:24 AM
I don't believe the 45 whp bit myself. I'm looking at maybe 15 whp more with my header/midpipe/exhaust and tune. Unless poorly designed from the factory, I really don't think you're picking much up from an intake either. Yeah, my car has less horsepower, but even from a percentage basis that's a huge amount of power to be made from bolt ons and a tune.
It's around there, I'll post the dyno of 246 from the baseline of 198. No intake mods besides K&N panel filter.
Quote from: Tave on December 28, 2014, 10:49:01 AM
People KILL for gains like Char's.
Yeah, I know those Chevy Aveos are killing it out there.
Quote from: thecarnut on December 28, 2014, 10:52:29 AM
I agree. Honda clutches are so nice and forgiving, and their shifters are (were?) the best in the business. By comparison, my dad's G37S (which is pretty much the same thing as your Z) has a very heavy clutch and slightly notchy/heavy shifter as well. I think your wife would be able to learn far better on a Civic. My brother tried learning on the G37 and said it was too scary. :lol:
Yea I taught my homeboy how to drive stick on one of my old Accords in like an hour. He didn't nuke my clutch or anything. It's really easy. It does literally feel like a toy. Only thing I wasn't crazy about is the bushings feel sloppy. Would def swap for some solid ones ASAP.
Quote from: Char on December 28, 2014, 01:03:00 PM
Yeah, I know those Chevy Aveos are killing it out there.
Best new skimobile under 12 grand in 2006. :praise:
If you're going to get a manual civic, no point not getting an SI IMO. The price difference isn't that great and you get much more car.
I know what the CSi has over the regular one. I'd only get in trouble. Regular one reaches speed OK, that and low running costs are what I'm looking for. Wish there were something in the middle, like the CSX they get up north. That would be nice.
You seem to get into trouble pretty easily.
Too bad the 3 cylinder geo metro isnt around, sounds like what you need.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 28, 2014, 08:09:44 PM
You seem to get into trouble pretty easily.
Too bad the 3 cylinder geo metro isnt around, sounds like what you need.
:lol:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 28, 2014, 08:09:44 PM
You seem to get into trouble pretty easily.
Too bad the 3 cylinder geo metro isnt around, sounds like what you need.
Say what you will; but those were fun cars. Three cylinders of fury mang.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 28, 2014, 08:39:47 PM
Say what you will; but those were fun cars. Three cylinders of fury mang.
My sister had one and there was nothing fun about it.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 28, 2014, 08:09:44 PM
You seem to get into trouble pretty easily.
Too bad the 3 cylinder geo metro isnt around, sounds like what you need.
New MINI is a 3 banger and prob has the same level of standard equipment. I will look into it.
Ran our #s with a mortgage officer. I probably could have got a new Mazda 3 with how our finances are. But being conservative is what got us here in the first place. Anyways I should be picking it up most likely Thursday. I'll make a "build" thread in the Mainstreamers forum.
A build thread for a civic...?
Honda Fanboy-ism won't let Sporty go! :lol:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on December 29, 2014, 06:09:57 PM
Honda Fanboy-ism won't let Sporty go! :lol:
Truly a disease.
I like no torque and I cannot lie
I just drove my friend's 2012 (the bad year) Civic Si for about 70 miles. I'm pretty divided on how I feel about that car...
I met Sir Mix-A-Lot at the Infiniti dealer about a year ago - we both had the same service adviser and were waiting in the office together. Short guy - like 5'-5" which I didn't realize. Drives a somewhat decked out white QX56 (service adviser says he gets a new Infiniti every year, and has been their customer for quite some time).
CSB
Quote from: thecarnut on December 29, 2014, 07:21:07 PM
I just drove my friend's 2012 (the bad year) Civic Si for about 70 miles. I'm pretty divided on how I feel about that car...
Tell me more. What was wrong with it?
The 09 I drove was OK. Revving out to 8K for low 15 second 1/4 performance gets old fast though. And it was so loud. I don't know if the car I drove had an intake/exhaust or what. But that engine note dominated the driving experience.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 29, 2014, 07:26:04 PM
I met Sir Mix-A-Lot at the Infiniti dealer about a year ago - we both had the same service adviser and were waiting in the office together. Short guy - like 5'-5" which I didn't realize. Drives a somewhat decked out white QX56 (service adviser says he gets a new Infiniti every year, and has been their customer for quite some time).
He was always a big car guy! IIRC he had a Porsche Gemballa inside one of his album covers...
He also had a song called "cars" recently IIRC
There are at least three other cars in the category that are better than the Civic....but it's not my money.
Quote from: 68_427 on December 29, 2014, 08:26:35 PM
He also had a song called "cars" recently IIRC
Herr's a few of his cars....
http://www.celebritycarsblog.com/celebrity/sir-mix-a-lot/ (http://www.celebritycarsblog.com/celebrity/sir-mix-a-lot/)
Quote from: SVT666 on December 29, 2014, 08:48:59 PM
There are at least three other cars in the category that are better than the Civic....but it's not my money.
Name the other three, outside of the Mazda3. Focus is alright, but a manual Titanium is impossible to find by me. Do they even make manual Titaniums? And thanks to the Focus' weight penalty the Civic gives up nothing to it in a straight line despite its power advantage :huh: Rabbit? It's OK but overweight and gets bad gas mileage for what it is. What else is there in this segment?
Not to mention, eventual mods will be compulsory. I dont know whats out there for the 3 or Focus. But for the Civic I can put together a decent suspension and OEM BBK (off of pretty much any big Honda- Accord V6, TL, RL, w/e) for not much money, research, or effort. Won't do much to the motor besides an intake most likely but again I'm not buying this for speed.
If I could go new I would def look at the current Mazda 3. That car is just too sexy. A Japanese Golf but with a better design and better reliability. I'm not sure why it's about half a second slower to 60 than the Accord with the same HP and less weight (Im guessing 2 shifts to 60) but that shit dont matter. In any case thats not where my money is now (plus I dont think I will ever buy new).
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 29, 2014, 07:48:45 PM
Tell me more. What was wrong with it?
The 09 I drove was OK. Revving out to 8K for low 15 second 1/4 performance gets old fast though. And it was so loud. I don't know if the car I drove had an intake/exhaust or what. But that engine note dominated the driving experience.
Honda didn't adjust the gearing when they changed to the 2.4. It's geared way too short for that engine's power band, which has 1000 less revs to work with.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 29, 2014, 07:48:45 PM
Tell me more. What was wrong with it?
The 09 I drove was OK. Revving out to 8K for low 15 second 1/4 performance gets old fast though. And it was so loud. I don't know if the car I drove had an intake/exhaust or what. But that engine note dominated the driving experience.
I really hate the driving position. Once I got my seating position right I ended up not being able to see the speedo at all. Just a complicated interior that felt very cheap. I didn't get to see how it handled but steering feel was kind of numb. The worst part by far was the rev hang though. It made me feel like I couldn't drive a manual since it took forever for the revs to come down, which resulted in jerky shifts. Plus the VTEC switchover wasn't very exciting either.
On the plus side, it does have good visibility, a great clutch and nice shifter. Still though, as the only fun car that Honda makes it's a huge disappointment.
I've never driven an 06-11 Si, I've wanted to try one out for a while
Dont have high expectations
Its not BAD, per se, but it's different, and might be a little annoying on the street coming from the torquey GTI
Wifey really hated it. Induction note was omnipresent which I guess can be a good thing depending on what you want. It's not what I wanted.
Quote from: thecarnut on December 30, 2014, 12:14:53 PM
I really hate the driving position. Once I got my seating position right I ended up not being able to see the speedo at all. Just a complicated interior that felt very cheap. I didn't get to see how it handled but steering feel was kind of numb. The worst part by far was the rev hang though. It made me feel like I couldn't drive a manual since it took forever for the revs to come down, which resulted in jerky shifts. Plus the VTEC switchover wasn't very exciting either.
On the plus side, it does have good visibility, a great clutch and nice shifter. Still though, as the only fun car that Honda makes it's a huge disappointment.
The rev hang is solved by an ECU tune. The steering unfortunately is stuck that way.
Is the 8th gen steering electric or hydraulic? Either way it didnt have much feel in either car.
Got an alignment done with some other shit on the Z. Car handles better at the limit, much more predictable.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 30, 2014, 04:35:30 AM
Name the other three, outside of the Mazda3. Focus is alright, but a manual Titanium is impossible to find by me. Do they even make manual Titaniums? And thanks to the Focus' weight penalty the Civic gives up nothing to it in a straight line despite its power advantage :huh: Rabbit? It's OK but overweight and gets bad gas mileage for what it is. What else is there in this segment?
Not to mention, eventual mods will be compulsory. I dont know whats out there for the 3 or Focus. But for the Civic I can put together a decent suspension and OEM BBK (off of pretty much any big Honda- Accord V6, TL, RL, w/e) for not much money, research, or effort. Won't do much to the motor besides an intake most likely but again I'm not buying this for speed.
If I could go new I would def look at the current Mazda 3. That car is just too sexy. A Japanese Golf but with a better design and better reliability. I'm not sure why it's about half a second slower to 60 than the Accord with the same HP and less weight (Im guessing 2 shifts to 60) but that shit dont matter. In any case thats not where my money is now (plus I dont think I will ever buy new).
The 3 is so much better in every way there is no reason to buy anything else.
The new one, sure. If you know where they are selling 2014 3s for 10-12K holla at a playa. The last 3 was better stock in dynamics and about equal interior wise. But there are no manual hatches within 100 miles in my price range, and the sedan is hideous compared to the Civic.
I was waiting for your response tho. Lets see a 3 do this :popcorn:
Best Motoring - Civic Type R vs 350Z vs Integra Type R vs NSX Type S vs S2000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncnV7A8-zKw#)
ZOMG!!! RACECAR!!! Will be unfair to civic racecar unless you take it to the track
Im not getting a Type R or even an Si though. Point is the platform is great if you tweak it right.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 30, 2014, 04:04:54 PM
Im not getting a Type R or even an Si though. Point is the platform is great if you tweak it right.
But BBK!!!!!
:rolleyes:
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/142871-street-fighter-amstrad-cpc-screenshot-you-loses.png)
I concede, you are the master of your own universe
"Lets see a 3 do this"
Insert irrelevant biased video of cars not sold in this country.
:rolleyes:
I posted it to show the potential of the platform with mild mods. Dont get it twisted, if I buy a small car after this it will probably be the current 3. But 09 3 vs 09 Civic, Civic wins for me
So base Civic sedan -> Type-R is just mild mods.
ok
Just buy a Mazdaspeed 3. :P
Quote from: Laconian on December 30, 2014, 06:07:51 PM
Just buy a Mazdaspeed 3. :P
Way too much power for a Honda boi
Quote from: 68_427 on December 30, 2014, 06:07:17 PM
So base Civic sedan -> Type-R is just mild mods.
ok
Only one of us said this and it wasn't me.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 30, 2014, 06:02:23 PM
I posted it to show the potential of the platform with mild mods.
huh
You know what would be a great mod for a civic?
Buying the one that's remotely performance oriented to begin with. :rolleyes:
FOR SALE - DODGE STRATUS MILD MODS
(http://www.supertouringregister.com/image/1006.jpg)
Quote from: MrH on December 30, 2014, 06:58:29 PM
You know what would be a great mod for a civic?
Buying the one that's remotely performance oriented to begin with. :rolleyes:
Naw this is still daily driver status. No need for the K20 and I don't like the K20's character anyway. Too high strung.
We arent talking about building a BTCC. Springs + shocks, maybe an intake, and audio shit. Hardly reinventing the wheel, and all stuff I would have got with the Si anyway.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 30, 2014, 08:01:31 PM
Naw this is still daily driver status. No need for the K20 and I don't like the K20's character anyway. Too high strung.
We arent talking about building a BTCC. Springs + shocks, maybe an intake, and audio shit. Hardly reinventing the wheel, and all stuff I would have got with the Si anyway.
"The stock Si intake is too loud. So I'm going to buy a base civic and add an aftermarket intake. That'll do the trick! "
You're literally going to spend twice the money to make it 1/3 the car the Si is out of the box.
I swear you're just trollin us and always have been.
Quote from: MrH on December 30, 2014, 09:06:07 PM
"The stock Si intake is too loud. So I'm going to buy a base civic and add an aftermarket intake. That'll do the trick! "
You're literally going to spend twice the money to make it 1/3 the car the Si is out of the box.
I swear you're just trollin us and always have been.
To be fair though, the base civic with some mild mods will hold it's value better than an Si.
Intakes are only loud at WOT. Si is loud all the time. No chill mode. Would be aggravating on my commute for sure.
And when u say twice the $$$ u mean the purchase price of the car? :confused: Hardly, suspension/brakes/intake will be like 2 grand, aka the price differential between a base Civic and an Si with comparable miles/age/condition. And the suspension/brakes would be better than what's in the Si. :huh:
Not to mention there are other reasons one might one the base Civic over the Si.... insurance, gas mileage, maintenance being the biggies. Put it like this. For what you spent on the BRZ you could have got a used Cayman. Could make a strong case for why too (would hold its value better, obviously a much more fun, higher performing car, Porsche pedigree yadda yadda). Yet u got the BRZ instead. And put money into aftermarket parts u will never get money back on. But it still isnt as good as a Cayman. So what did u gain? U could have just got the "better" car in the first place. Thats a rhetorical question, u get my point.
A bullshit aftermarket suspension just screams long commute daily driver
And what brand of suspension did I say I was gonna buy? :popcorn:
I'm not so sure what's wrong with putting a set of stiffer shocks and springs on is a bad idea.
I put a set on my old Focus, and I was considering doing it to the yaris...
Used Civic - > used Civic Si is totally different from a new brz - > used Cayman.
Not even worth discussing.
Quote from: 2o6 on December 31, 2014, 08:44:47 AM
I'm not so sure what's wrong with putting a set of stiffer shocks and springs on is a bad idea.
I put a set on my old Focus, and I was considering doing it to the yaris...
Once the dogpile starts all logic goes out the window. Note the hypocrisy from Mr H and FBC, and the continued incompetence/strawmen from r0tor. Its all good though, I enjoy the sport. People would rather I either keep or buy a car I dont want in order to fit within their guidelines than do what makes me happy and makes sense for me. Its funny.
Quote from: MrH on December 31, 2014, 09:05:33 AM
Used Civic - > used Civic Si is totally different from a new brz - > used Cayman.
How so?
I nominate this for the thread of the year!!!!!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 31, 2014, 09:22:46 AM
Once the dogpile starts all logic goes out the window. Note the hypocrisy from Mr H and FBC, and the continued incompetence/strawmen from r0tor. Its all good though, I enjoy the sport. People would rather I either keep or buy a car I dont want in order to fit within their guidelines than do what makes me happy and makes sense for me. Its funny.
Don't make me go all vtec on your ass.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on December 31, 2014, 09:38:49 AM
I nominate this for the thread of the year!!!!!
(http://i50.tinypic.com/mbi93q.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 31, 2014, 08:40:57 AM
And what brand of suspension did I say I was gonna buy? :popcorn:
I really dont see you dropping $3k on a set of ohlins coilovers... and even if you did I would never want to be driving for hours a day on 12kg front springs
Quote from: r0tor on December 31, 2014, 10:17:10 AM
I really dont see you dropping $3k on a set of ohlins coilovers... and even if you did I would never want to be driving for hours a day on 12kg front springs
He clearly stated he's going to hodgepodge some accord shocks into it.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 10:18:11 AM
He clearly stated he's going to hodgepodge some accord shocks into it.
Better yet, SI shocks
Quote from: r0tor on December 31, 2014, 10:17:10 AM
I really dont see you dropping $3k on a set of ohlins coilovers... and even if you did I would never want to be driving for hours a day on 12kg front springs
U arent even on $3K 12kg spring Ohlins yourself, so why all of a sudden is that your minimum quality requirement? :hammerhead:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 31, 2014, 10:22:07 AM
U arent even on $3K 12kg spring Ohlins yourself, so why all of a sudden is that your minimum quality requirement? :hammerhead:
I dont daily drive my 8 a couple hours a day. If I did, I wouldnt have even did coilovers in the first place. We all know you would go after JDM crap anyway
Quote from: r0tor on December 31, 2014, 10:24:57 AM
I dont daily drive my 8 a couple hours a day. If I did, I wouldnt have even did coilovers in the first place. We all know you would go after JDM crap anyway
When have I gone with "JDM crap" in the past? :zzz:
And for the record, I'm probably going with Koni Yellows and Eibach Sportlines or Swift Springs. So much for that strawman
Dude, just stick with the regular civic and mod it. Forget about the Si. May I suggest a RHD mod?
(http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachments/car-chat/82758d1144522524-my-rhd-conversion-now-its-jdm-yo-124343794_62a8472e45_o.jpg)
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 11:04:15 AM
Dude, just stick with the regular civic and mod it. Forget about the Si. May I suggest a RHD mod?
(http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachments/car-chat/82758d1144522524-my-rhd-conversion-now-its-jdm-yo-124343794_62a8472e45_o.jpg)
Please tell me that was done on a mail delivery vehicle...
Nope, #1 drift jeep with many good time friend
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 31, 2014, 10:36:51 AM
When have I gone with "JDM crap" in the past? :zzz:
And for the record, I'm probably going with Koni Yellows and Eibach Sportlines or Swift Springs. So much for that strawman
Yippee... still going to suck as a long ride daily commuter
Lets see, you think the Z isn't good for your commute. You then start talking about a Fiesta for gas mileage. Then an automatic was required - so it changed to Golf. Then became GTI because its not sporty enough. Now its a riced out manual tranny civic? Is everything in your life one gigantic merry-go-round?
You guys are being fucking ridiculous now.
There's umpteen trillion parts out for the civic, and springs and shocks are easy and cheap to do on that car.
Not sure how adding an intake and firmer springs = ricing. A non Si civic is still better on gas, cheaper to buy, and cheaper to insure.
Serious question:
Aren't all civics usually higher to insure than a comparable segment car? I recall these getting "hit" for higher premiums due to the very high rate of theft.
I don't know how much it is(50 bucks on a 6 month premium wouldn't matter), but if we are talking hundreds more that's something I'd factor in.
Quote from: 2o6 on December 31, 2014, 11:43:53 AM
Not sure how adding an intake and firmer springs = ricing. A non Si civic is still better on gas, cheaper to buy, and cheaper to insure.
Just owning a civic can put you on the ground floor of rice tower.
Remember when I had this conversation about MY choice of car? I had a few criteria:
RWD
Manual
Good on gas
Not American
Have a back seat
The 3 Series fit that criteria the best, bar none.
With Sporty here, the goal post is always moving - which is hilarious considering how much sit he gave me. Remember his criteria for buying a new car? Remember how it kept changing? Remember the shit talking about Intakes and me driving a "base" 3 series? Remember how he wants a BASE civic to put an intake on?
We all know the Mazda 3 is a better car in every objective category, we all know that I found him a 3 series (MANUAL) with the same mileage for the same price (depreciation is a bitch... :( )and we know he just wants an excuse to rice out another Honda. Swift springs and Unvalved Koni twin tubes? Sounds terrible, sign me up.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 11:45:50 AM
Serious question:
Aren't all civics usually higher to insure than a comparable segment car? I recall these getting "hit" for higher premiums due to the very high rate of theft.
I don't know how much it is(50 bucks on a 6 month premium wouldn't matter), but if we are talking hundreds more that's something I'd factor in.
For me, insuring a Civic/Accord V6/328 (the Civic SI was the same cost as a normal civic) were all around the same price. Being a coupe brought the price up a little - a G37/335 brought the price up a LOT.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 11:45:50 AM
Serious question:
Aren't all civics usually higher to insure than a comparable segment car? I recall these getting "hit" for higher premiums due to the very high rate of theft.
I don't know how much it is(50 bucks on a 6 month premium wouldn't matter), but if we are talking hundreds more that's something I'd factor in.
For me, the Mazda 3 was far higher
Also mazda has corrosion issues (MX793's went to the scrap yard!)
Quote from: 2o6 on December 31, 2014, 12:12:58 PM
For me, the Mazda 3 was far higher
Also mazda has corrosion issues (MX793's went to the scrap yard!)
How would rust affect insurance rates?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 12:20:44 PM
How would rust affect insurance rates?
It affects cost of ownership...I wasn't saying it affected insurance
Quote from: r0tor on December 31, 2014, 11:35:21 AM
Yippee... still going to suck as a long ride daily commuter
Lets see, you think the Z isn't good for your commute. You then start talking about a Fiesta for gas mileage. Then an automatic was required - so it changed to Golf. Then became GTI because its not sporty enough. Now its a riced out manual tranny civic? Is everything in your life one gigantic merry-go-round?
Lets actually go through the sequence
Z ISN'T good for my commute, or my lifestyle in general. Was fine when I bought it, and fit all the criteria of what I was looking for at that time.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 22, 2013, 02:55:36 PM
I am working from home for now but I still need a car for rainy days, interviews, the winter, going to the gym etc. I don't think this thing will see more than ~500 miles a month and I have the bike. So a lot of shit doesn't matter. Maintenance costs don't matter though I would like the thing to run. Gas mileage doesn't matter though I don't want the worst of both worlds (weak performance + shitty mileage). Practicality kind of doesn't matter either, it can be a 2 seater. Only real limitation is price and possibly insurance.
My heart is set on a 2.8-3.0L E36 but there are some interesting alternatives. Main things I want are RWD, ~mid 14 sec or less quarter mile, <3200lbs, <$10K price, and some level of long distance comfort
Not practical, expensive to maintain/operate, cop + speed magnet. Most of that shit wouldn't even matter, if I wasn't driving 500 miles a week in it. So any fucking way I started talking about the Fiesta ST, but ruled it out because its back seat cant hold a rear facing infant seat- important as we plan to start having kids in the next 2 yrs. Never considered the Golf/Rabbit (more strawmen). Moved to the GTI, decided the reliability was too much of a gamble. Drove a Civic Si, didn't like the powerband or how loud the engine was. Need something practical, comfy, cheap to run that's a little fun to drive.... plain Civic with mild mods fits the bill on all fronts.
And dont talk to me about rice Mr "repainted red calipers" :pee:
Non-WRX Impreza hatch? No shortage of mods for that. Great reliability, great residuals too - though mods kind of nuke the residuals, don't they? :lol:
Quote from: 2o6 on December 31, 2014, 12:27:22 PM
It affects cost of ownership...I wasn't saying it affected insurance
I'm sure civics rust all the same, if we could remove some extreme variables that might give the appearance of one rusting "worse" than the either.
Quote from: Laconian on December 31, 2014, 12:35:10 PM
Non-WRX Impreza hatch? No shortage of mods for that. Great reliability, great residuals too - though mods kind of nuke the residuals, don't they? :lol:
When I do mods I keep stock parts to sell them. No dice on Impreza hatch though. I told myself I dont ever want to need AWD again. W/o the need for AWD a non WRX Impreza is pretty awful. Friend of mine had one. Gas mileage on the old ones I can afford is pretty awful too
Suzuki Kizashi? :huh:
Probably sucks for modding, but people seem to like how they drive...
Quote from: Laconian on December 31, 2014, 12:35:10 PM
Non-WRX Impreza hatch? No shortage of mods for that. Great reliability, great residuals too - though mods kind of nuke the residuals, don't they? :lol:
Don't know about the current gen, but the previous gen drove like Buicks. I watched somebody run a bone stock ~2011 Impreza hatch at an autocross a couple of years ago and the thing had nautical levels of body roll. For comparison, another competitor was driving a rented Corolla of the same vintage and that looked like it had the suspension roll rigidity of a Corvette in comparison.
Quote from: Laconian on December 31, 2014, 12:49:57 PM
Suzuki Kizashi? :huh:
Probably sucks for modding, but people seem to like how they drive...
Interesting choice. Looks good, drives well, probably reliable enough. But dealer support is literally non-existent, and other than rarity, doesnt really have anything over a Civic from where Im sitting.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 31, 2014, 01:05:41 PM
Interesting choice. Looks good, drives well, probably reliable enough. But dealer support is literally non-existent, and other than rarity, doesnt really have anything over a Civic from where Im sitting.
Looks a shite ton better, and why do you need dealer support with a used car?
If it weren't for the damn spaceship dash on the Civic I'd have no problem with it. If you can see everything clearly when you sit in it, I guess it's a good choice, but even my friend who owns the Civic and is the exact opposite of me physically said he couldn't see his own speedo while driving. :facepalm:
I honestly think there's better options than a Civic. What about a Corolla XRS? Too rare?
"What about a Corolla XRS?"
:facepalm:
What are gen 1 TSXs going for these days?
Quote from: MX793 on December 31, 2014, 01:45:27 PM
What are gen 1 TSXs going for these days?
You can get one for ~10-12K but it will have way more miles. Truthfully, the 06-11 Acura CSX base model with the 2.0L SOHC instead of the Civic's 1.8 would strike the best balance but thats not an option here.
Lol... a lowered civic with a farty intake/exhaust and the all mighty Accord BBK just screams practical daily commuter and in no possible way a police magnet
Holy shit... just admit your still a hondaboi racer inside and quit trying to justify it
Who is tryign to justify anything? Especially to someone who keeps adding to their strawman fanfic and getting facts wrong (who said anything about an exhaust?)
Forgot to mention the huge wing and hella flush wheels
Someone is projecting
You'd think a honda fan and a rotary fan would be able to come together and bond over their shared love of underpowered torque-less cars.
What's happening to this world?
So where is the GTI then?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 01:33:49 PM
"What about a Corolla XRS?"
:facepalm:
Umm... it's not as common and as big a theft magnet as a Civic, has the Yamaha-developed 2ZZ-GE from the Celica/Elise and is a complete sleeper. If Sporty could find one it'd be right up his alley.
Quote from: thecarnut on December 31, 2014, 04:03:33 PM
Umm... it's not as common and as big a theft magnet as a Civic, has the Yamaha-developed 2ZZ-GE from the Celica/Elise and is a complete sleeper. If Sporty could find one it'd be right up his alley.
+1
http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=383573477&zip=28202&endYear=2006&pageLayout=list&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=2004&listingTypes=used&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BCOROL%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D (http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=383573477&zip=28202&endYear=2006&pageLayout=list&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=2004&listingTypes=used&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BCOROL%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D)
http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=389042745&zip=28202&endYear=2006&pageLayout=list&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=2004&listingTypes=used&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BCOROL%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D (http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=389042745&zip=28202&endYear=2006&pageLayout=list&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=2004&listingTypes=used&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BCOROL%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D)
http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=388147360&zip=28202&endYear=2006&pageLayout=list&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=2004&listingTypes=used&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BCOROL%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D (http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=388147360&zip=28202&endYear=2006&pageLayout=list&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=2004&listingTypes=used&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BCOROL%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D)
http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=390013288&zip=28202&endYear=2006&pageLayout=list&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=2004&listingTypes=used&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&offset=15&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BCOROL%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D (http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=390013288&zip=28202&endYear=2006&pageLayout=list&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=2004&listingTypes=used&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=200&offset=15&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BCOROL%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D)
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 11:47:10 AM
Just owning a civic can put you on the ground floor of rice tower.
:clap:
Quote from: thecarnut on December 31, 2014, 04:03:33 PM
Umm... it's not as common and as big a theft magnet as a Civic, has the Yamaha-developed 2ZZ-GE from the Celica/Elise and is a complete sleeper. If Sporty could find one it'd be right up his alley.
Are 8th gen Civics the same theft magnets that earlier ones were? They don't have the interchangeability with Integras that the older models had.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 31, 2014, 01:05:41 PM
Interesting choice. Looks good, drives well, probably reliable enough. But dealer support is literally non-existent, and other than rarity, doesnt really have anything over a Civic from where Im sitting.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 01:10:26 PM
Looks a shite ton better, and why do you need dealer support with a used car?
I ran Fiats, Renaults, Merkurs and Peugeots for years. What is this "Dealer Support" thing you guys keep talking about? :huh:
:lol:
Quote from: MX793 on December 31, 2014, 04:41:37 PM
Are 8th gen Civics the same theft magnets that earlier ones were? They don't have the interchangeability with Integras that the older models had.
Yea, all that shit kinda went out the window when they switched to struts. Pretty much everything mechanical was interchangeable from 1988 to 2000. That said, the interior and powertrain in the 8th gen Si are still very desirable and mostly interchangeable. But then I don't live in Patterson, NJ or Washington Heights :evildude:
Quote from: Madman on December 31, 2014, 04:44:26 PM
I ran Fiats, Renaults, Merkurs and Peugeots for years. What is this "Dealer Support" thing you guys keep talking about? :huh:
:lol:
Well, we all don't take pride in being able to say 'the company that built my car went out of business in the 90s'
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 02:51:29 PM
You'd think a honda fan and a rotary fan would be able to come together and bond over their shared love of underpowered torque-less cars.
:clap:
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Quote from: thecarnut on December 31, 2014, 04:03:33 PM
Umm... it's not as common and as big a theft magnet as a Civic, has the Yamaha-developed 2ZZ-GE from the Celica/Elise and is a complete sleeper. If Sporty could find one it'd be right up his alley.
It's also geared wrong and has synchros made of chocolate
The new XRS uses a Camry motor and it's pretty lame
O yea I forgot about those issues. Corolla's aftermarket is kind of shit too. The gearing issue could be fixed by lowering the lift xover RPM, but theres no product that can do that. Meanwhile Hondata has a damn near standalone ECU for pretty much any Honda for like $300-500...........
I cant fault the suggestion though, 2ZZ was a good motor hampered by bad everything else
So now you are taking hondata standalone for the base civic?
"Hondata, the number one choice for standalone daily driver ecu management."
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 09:52:22 PM
So now you are taking hondata standalone for the base civic?
Lol no. Just speaking to the level of support for the platform.
Civic has better suspension design too. Their best yet, DWB included
Todays the big day #JDMDestiny #SatuHati #SOHCVTEC #CivicNation #ILuvH8rs
What color is it? It'll be interesting to see what it looks like after modz.
Did you buy something yet? I skimmed over the remarks and couldn't tell.
Sold, then unsold.... theyre playing games cause Im coming in from out of state. Car is there though and price is what I want plus under NADA.... heading out once wifey gets her shit together. Breakfast is for the weak
NADA data is awful. Always stupid high, so dealerships point to being under that as making it a good deal.
Use Edmunds and see where that is. That's always been the most reliable for me.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 01, 2015, 01:16:59 AM
Todays the big day #JDMDestiny #SatuHati #SOHCVTEC #CivicNation #ILuvH8rs
Ah, SOHC VTEC, a name that implies mere parity with the rest of the industry.
Quote from: Laconian on January 01, 2015, 01:29:01 PM
Ah, SOHC VTEC, a name that implies mere parity with the rest of the industry.
Hondas have no competition.
Just got it. Started a new thread in mainstreamers.
Cool
Thinking about a K&N cone and muffler delete for the Z for shits and giggles.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 01, 2015, 08:46:24 PM
Thinking about a K&N cone and muffler delete for the Z for shits and giggles.
Why dump money into the Z when you've already bought its replacement?
Not dumping money into it. $100 bucks worth of parts maybe? Would be funny.
I don't get it. Aren't you selling the Z? Why would you do anything that would make it less desirable?
U dont understand the Z market. It is the epitome of backwards cap dbag, especially in the price point mine will likely sell at. These are the things they do. Plus Im not tossing the stock parts and again I think it would be kind of funny.
Maybe I'm getting old, but why would you do something to a car that you find funny?
Well it's not just funny, the Z sounds good uncorked too so it would be more fun to drive on the rare occasions I do now.
Put the Z on CL. Starting price is $7.5 but Ill be happy to take 6.5 for it. We'll see what happens
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 22, 2015, 08:36:01 PM
Put the Z on CL. Starting price is $7.5 but Ill be happy to take 6.5 for it. We'll see what happens
I'll give you like $50. for it!!!
Not $50, though