Quote from: giant_mtb on May 02, 2024, 05:50:18 PMI remember being able to look out the windows just fine as a kid...back when cars' beltlines were more like beltlines and not necklines like today. Didn't need 8" of carseat BS to elevate me and strap me down like a friggin' straightjacket.

To be practical, booster seats are 5 point harnesses that do reduce or prevent injury in an accident, which is the primary concern for parents.  Seat belts are pretty useless to protect kids as they are designed for adults. 

Quote from: GoCougs on May 02, 2024, 06:05:46 PMI will say, the one boondoggle bigger than AD is humanoid robots (another fraud Tesla is into)!

I'm so tired of Elon. He's the epitome of starting with a paperclip and somehow trading it up to a Ferrari. Nothing his companies accomplish is his doing. He's a project manager at best, hence his consistent MO of over-promising and under-delivering.

I get why people support it, hype and futurism is fun, but I also don't get why some of those same people can't/don't take a critical look.

I will say, the one boondoggle bigger than AD is humanoid robots (another fraud Tesla is into)!

Quote from: 565 on May 02, 2024, 04:55:08 PMEverything is impossible until someone goes and does it.

People with a shit ton more experience with automotive engineering and autonomous driving than anyone on this forum certainly think it is possible and profitable or else they would not be wasting their careers working on it.

Tesla risking it all to do something innovative is exactly in character with the company and the cornerstone of how they went from nothing in 2008 to the most valuable car company today (some automakers still had models barely warmed over from pre2008 until recently). Tesla went from making a handful of electric lotus elises in 2008 to producing the best selling vehicle of 2023. Tesla launched a direct to consumer sales model when many said it couldn't be done. They single handedly created a charging network that works while the rest of the industry was a dumpster fire.  Their single large screen automotive interior design is rapidly being copied by the rest of the industry. However they got there by taking huge risks.  They abandoned their successful niche sports car market to make the Model S, and then they risked it all again to make the Model 3 which almost bankrupted the company.  Either way they kicked off the EV revolution, you'd have to be delusional to think that EVs would be where they are without Tesla.  Prior to Tesla, every modern EV was some super eco shitbox or oddity.

Objectively speaking the Tesla story is the most incredible automotive rise in our lifetimes.

They are risking it again now on autonomous driving.  Sure they might totally fail and go under, or they might actually pull it off and revolutionize the automotive industry again.  Either way they wouldn't be Tesla if they didn't at least try.

I have zero experience in either automotive or autonomous driving (aka, AD) but have many years in the exact technologies used in AD for "autonomous" operation of factory automation and robotics - vision, LIDAR, algos, safety, process design, etc. It's been 15 years, and AD hasn't worked, AD doesn't work, and there is no known path by which AD will ever work. These are facts that I welcome others to challenge. The AD "investment" continues because Tesla, Google, Cruise, Zoox and Apple have astronomical market capitalizations a goodly portion of which is due to WtP rewarding them for chasing The Next Big Thing.

Tesla gets away with its Funny Business because of its laughable market valuation (about equal to ALL notable established automakers combined - GM + Ford + Toyota + Honda + VWAG + etc.). If Tesla had a market valuation in line with other automakers, it literally would have ceased to exist many moons ago. But WtP need to be chasin'! As the EV market continues its decline and AD divestment continues, we'll see how long WtP will put up with the chase. My bet is there's a bit of steam left in it yet however.

Quote from: FoMoJo on May 02, 2024, 04:43:23 PMOther than the safety aspect, which may or may not be, it lets little kids look out the car windows.  Whenever I drive around with our 3 year old grandson, which is quite often, he's perched up in his seat with a constant monologue about what's happening out the windows..."I see a blue car, it's a red light, look at that noisy car, the light is green" etc.  He's a regular little back-seat driver.

I remember being able to look out the windows just fine as a kid...back when cars' beltlines were more like beltlines and not necklines like today. Didn't need 8" of carseat BS to elevate me and strap me down like a friggin' straightjacket.

Everything is impossible until someone goes and does it.

People with a shit ton more experience with automotive engineering and autonomous driving than anyone on this forum certainly think it is possible and profitable or else they would not be wasting their careers working on it.

Tesla risking it all to do something innovative is exactly in character with the company and the cornerstone of how they went from nothing in 2008 to the most valuable car company today (some automakers still had models barely warmed over from pre2008 until recently). Tesla went from making a handful of electric lotus elises in 2008 to producing the best selling vehicle of 2023. Tesla launched a direct to consumer sales model when many said it couldn't be done. They single handedly created a charging network that works while the rest of the industry was a dumpster fire.  Their single large screen automotive interior design is rapidly being copied by the rest of the industry. However they got there by taking huge risks.  They abandoned their successful niche sports car market to make the Model S, and then they risked it all again to make the Model 3 which almost bankrupted the company.  Either way they kicked off the EV revolution, you'd have to be delusional to think that EVs would be where they are without Tesla.  Prior to Tesla, every modern EV was some super eco shitbox or oddity.

Objectively speaking the Tesla story is the most incredible automotive rise in our lifetimes.

They are risking it again now on autonomous driving.  Sure they might totally fail and go under, or they might actually pull it off and revolutionize the automotive industry again.  Either way they wouldn't be Tesla if they didn't at least try.

Quote from: giant_mtb on May 02, 2024, 01:16:45 PMI have no memory of ever being in a car seat or using a booster seat. I was born in 1990.

Kids these days are probably gonna have PTSD from being strapped/locked in to a car seat because they can actually remember it since it's required 'til they're in 2nd or 3rd grade.

Other than the safety aspect, which may or may not be, it lets little kids look out the car windows.  Whenever I drive around with our 3 year old grandson, which is quite often, he's perched up in his seat with a constant monologue about what's happening out the windows..."I see a blue car, it's a red light, look at that noisy car, the light is green" etc.  He's a regular little back-seat driver.

Quote from: FoMoJo on May 02, 2024, 10:08:13 AMSomething like this could be an option if they are practical and not really fussy about appearances...

Passenger Van

Just remove the last row of seating and it would be an 8 passenger van with loads of cargo space.

These things handle better than people realize.

Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 02, 2024, 11:28:01 AMI'm just waiting for a booster seat to be required for 16 year olds with their driving permit.

I have no memory of ever being in a car seat or using a booster seat. I was born in 1990.

Kids these days are probably gonna have PTSD from being strapped/locked in to a car seat because they can actually remember it since it's required 'til they're in 2nd or 3rd grade.

Just a general FYI ITT: Waymo's attempt of commercialization of "autonomous" (mapped) driving has been a failure. Turns out, reimagining the taxi industry to such an extent was a colossally bad business decision.