Michigan law enforcement officials have gathered to run a rodeo with the Ford Police Interceptor, Dodge Charger Pursuit and Chevrolet Caprice police car. The last horse standing will be trying to slide into the spot left by the Ford Crown Victoria, which sold about 50,000 units per year before going out of production. Ford doesn't have the inside line on replacing its standard bearer, though, because the Taurus-based Police Interceptor is front-wheel drive, and that makes some officers skeptical.
An officer's remark that "It is a whole different driving system" symbolizes the wariness, with concerns not only about cost and complexity, but just being able to drive the thing in the way officers are accustomed. The competition is rear-wheel drive, and in the case of the Caprice ? which ran the police fleet show until it went out of production ? there's more interior room. All the cars have their give-and-take, although the Ford is the only offering with all-wheel drive. Final results from the weekend's testing will be announced in December.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/20/report-authorities-skeptical-of-fords-new-police-interceptor-a/
Not really a shock to me. As you may or may not know my dad works at a part time deputy and the Sheriff wants to hang on to his current fleet of Crown Vics as long as he can. They were considering getting a Charger but the State Troopers had some issues with them.
The Taurus's packaging is just a mess; too much was sacrificed for styling. The Charger has those issues to a lesser extent too. Know nothing about the Caprice but its cousin the G8 is a better car than either the Taurus or the Charger.
You guys make the Taurus sound as if it's cramped. It isn't.
The only concern our Sheriff had about the car is the durability. Yes I know Ford says it can do this or that but you never really know until you take it out into the real world.
My uncle is a state trooper here in Massachusetts - according to him, the 3.5 Chargers are prone to debilitating. problems. The Hemi Chargers (of which Massachusetts has a small fleet) have proven to be very reliable, but not cost justifiable.
There are a limited number of Taurus's running around, none of which are anywhere as durable as the current crop of Dodge or Ford products. Apparently, they're down more often than the 3.5 chargers, and worse still, cost more to get back up running.
One problem I know that the troopers had with the Chargers is a few of them had the back glass shatter after crossing a median. I also heard that a few didn't like the rear visibility of the Charger. Of all the ones we have here I think all of them are V8 cars.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 20, 2010, 12:24:01 PMYou guys make the Taurus sound as if it's cramped. It isn't.
No first-hand experience with the Taurus, but you have to realize the space requirements in LE vehicles. Space cannot be compaired like in civilian vehicles...this is a vehicle that will be packed with aftermarket equipment that takes up significant space and adds weight and will be used essentially as a rolling office for an officer wearing a duty belt and bullet resistant vest for 8 or more hours a day. Not to mention that there are some pretty physically big officers using these vehicles. Space and comfort is at a premium in LE vehicles.
I had doubts as soon as I heard that the Ford Interceptor was going to be FWD or AWD. I can't think of a single successful FWD cruiser...ignoring the benefits of RWD in the way LE drives, the mechanical reliability simply has never been there for FWD in LE work. I suspect that a more complicated system like AWD will be even more prone to mechanical failure in the rough world of LE driving.
I undestand that a redesigned Charger is ebing released in 2011 to compete with the Ford Interceptor and the new Chevy Caprice. Though they've only shown a single "teaser" pic so far, they say that issues like visibility that were complained about so much in the first gen Charger have been addressed. If Dodge has really taken criticisms to heart, then they may have a shot at the LE market.
As for the Caprice, I personally have high hopes. A roomy RWD Chevy with a large motor sounds like a worthy successor to the classic "bumblebee" Caprice I drove when I started (and those were some badass cruisers with the LT1 vette motor, let me tell ya!).
Quote from: GoCougs on September 20, 2010, 12:05:00 PM
The Taurus's packaging is just a mess; too much was sacrificed for styling. The Charger has those issues to a lesser extent too. Know nothing about the Caprice but its cousin the G8 is a better car than either the Taurus or the Charger.
What issues does the charger have? After 2006 Dodge did a phenominal job fixing the extremely few electrical issues the cars wiring harness had and the v8 version has suffered very few problems. My only problem with them is they are prone to being knocked out of alignment a little too easy for my taste- but so are the others with the Impala being the worst.
Quote from: Submariner on September 20, 2010, 01:56:01 PM
My uncle is a state trooper here in Massachusetts - according to him, the 3.5 Chargers are prone to debilitating. problems. The Hemi Chargers (of which Massachusetts has a small fleet) have proven to be very reliable, but not cost justifiable.
There are a limited number of Taurus's running around, none of which are anywhere as durable as the current crop of Dodge or Ford products. Apparently, they're down more often than the 3.5 chargers, and worse still, cost more to get back up running.
You're uncle is wrong about the cost of operating them- state purchase bids put the Charger generally at a price advantage (Our State bid puts the v8 charger about $1100 more than a v6 charger and about 1100 more than the CVPI with the Impala being a little cheaper than all the rest. The Macomb County bid is nearly identical to the State bid but gives the Charger a little bigger advantage with preferential purchase meaning that if you purchase 2 or more you get yours before someone only getting 1) and the cost to own and operate them on the v8 is actually a lot better than the CVPI with all around performance and ability so far superior to the CVPI it makes it a non-debate -and the v6 is almost even with the Impala for costs.
Our cost for the operation of the cars we still have in our fleet per mile including cost break down for all expenses incured with operating a patrol car but not including the costs of purchasing or installing emergency equipment or other police equipment. Tires- oil changes- routine maintanance- general repairs- gas- insurance (there's not a cost difference between units they all cost us $3500 per unit per year)
CVPI .72 per mile
Charger v8 .64 per mile
Impala .59 per mile
Charger v6 .60 per mile
I was there but we got rained out. I did get a chance to look them all over a little the Ford isn't a bad looking police car - at least not as bad as I thought it would be and it has almost or as much room as the Charger and the trunk space is adequate. Police admins and officers are just going to have to get used to carrying less stuff- trunks will never be "big" again. The Caprice is the biggest but the new Charger is easily the most comfortable. I think Dodge did a great job updating a car which had no honest competition in abilities. Too bad we didn't see them run but they're rescheduling the tests. I'm not sure if I'll go or not. None of them have good "visibility" with the modern high trunk and I think there's no way around that. With the rain I didn't stay long and didn't really look them over that much- I'm more interested in capability than I am comfort at this point since all 3 are more or less new cars.
I'm not saying it's never happened but we patrol divided freeway and country roads and the only time we've ever had a back window shatter was from vandalism from a guy inside who kicked out the window to try to get out of the car. We have 8 Chargers right now and honestly we've had some problems with them but it's mostly electrical- and since Dodge worked on the cars the problems are gone or at least seem to be gone.
Also I'ld add that our current gen Impalas have been surprisingly rugged we've had no drivetrain problems for the fwd allignment issues sure but no real mechanical breakdowns. The only problem with the Imps is limited handling ability and limited room. Brakes are actually a lot tougher than we thought they would be. I'm not a lover of them but I'm sold on them as a general use patrol unit as well as the Dodge and I actually like the Ford but we all know it's history there and it's just time to let it go.
Quote from: bing_oh on September 20, 2010, 03:09:39 PM
No first-hand experience with the Taurus, but you have to realize the space requirements in LE vehicles. Space cannot be compaired like in civilian vehicles...this is a vehicle that will be packed with aftermarket equipment that takes up significant space and adds weight and will be used essentially as a rolling office for an officer wearing a duty belt and bullet resistant vest for 8 or more hours a day. Not to mention that there are some pretty physically big officers using these vehicles. Space and comfort is at a premium in LE vehicles.
Right. Which is why they mount the shifter on the column to free up the console area for our stuff. It also adds wind resistance - even the small modern bars which cuts fuel mileage and lessens some cars ability to perform. It's not as bad as it used to be but anytime you put a solid bar across the top you hurt over all performance. Our old Streethawk bars had the reputation of cutting 5-8 mph off the top end and almost 2 seconds to 100 it's not that bad now.
Quote from: bing_oh on September 20, 2010, 03:16:23 PM
I had doubts as soon as I heard that the Ford Interceptor was going to be FWD or AWD. I can't think of a single successful FWD cruiser...ignoring the benefits of RWD in the way LE drives, the mechanical reliability simply has never been there for FWD in LE work. I suspect that a more complicated system like AWD will be even more prone to mechanical failure in the rough world of LE driving.
I undestand that a redesigned Charger is ebing released in 2011 to compete with the Ford Interceptor and the new Chevy Caprice. Though they've only shown a single "teaser" pic so far, they say that issues like visibility that were complained about so much in the first gen Charger have been addressed. If Dodge has really taken criticisms to heart, then they may have a shot at the LE market.
As for the Caprice, I personally have high hopes. A roomy RWD Chevy with a large motor sounds like a worthy successor to the classic "bumblebee" Caprice I drove when I started (and those were some badass cruisers with the LT1 vette motor, let me tell ya!).
The FWD can't perform as well as the RWD in our field because the physics just don't work in it's favor. FWD's have to do 3 things at once at the front tires - power- steer- brake. RWD only has to do 2 and the tires prefer it that way. :lol:
Quote from: rohan on September 20, 2010, 03:33:43 PM
You're uncle is wrong about the cost of operating them-
Ummm.. I think you misread what he wrote, he never said the Charger cost more to maintain, at least from what you've quoted. He said the Taurus cost more to maintain than the Chargers and broke down more.
Quote from: rohan on September 20, 2010, 03:33:43 PM
What issues does the charger have? After 2006 Dodge did a phenominal job fixing the extremely few electrical issues the cars wiring harness had and the v8 version has suffered very few problems. My only problem with them is they are prone to being knocked out of alignment a little too easy for my taste- but so are the others with the Impala being the worst.
He was referring to packaging issues, not mechanical. Both the Taurus and Charger have compromised interior space and visibility in the name of exterior styling.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 20, 2010, 12:24:01 PM
You guys make the Taurus sound as if it's cramped. It isn't.
Its packaging is still poor. It's a massive vehicle without any more usable space than the Fusion, except in the trunk. Better than the Impala, but still poor.
Quote from: NomisR on September 20, 2010, 04:01:15 PM
Ummm.. I think you misread what he wrote, he never said the Charger cost more to maintain, at least from what you've quoted. He said the Taurus cost more to maintain than the Chargers and broke down more.
Ummmmm.. no he mentioned according to his uncle- a MSP- that the chargers are a) v6's prone to breakdowns b) v8's are expensive to the point they aren't fiscally justifiable.....
Quote from: Submariner on September 20, 2010, 01:56:01 PM
My uncle is a state trooper here in Massachusetts - according to him, the 3.5 Chargers are prone to debilitating. problems. The Hemi Chargers (of which Massachusetts has a small fleet) have proven to be very reliable, but not cost justifiable.
...... Apparently, they're down more often than the 3.5 chargers, and worse still, cost more to get back up running.
:huh:
Also since the Taurus hasn't been offered for service duty for more than a couple months there's no data that's worth anything about their reliabitly- either for ar against it. It's like saying the New Durango is unreliable because ones from 1992 were. What the 1993 or whatever Taurus was in the way of reliability or useability don't have anything to do with what the 2011 Taurus does. Or for that matter a civilian 2010 Taurus did-
Quote from: MX793 on September 20, 2010, 05:03:59 PM
He was referring to packaging issues, not mechanical. Both the Taurus and Charger have compromised interior space and visibility in the name of exterior styling.
The only place the Charger has issues is in the rear seat- for police it's a non-issue because we don't want bad-guys having lots of room anyway. In the front the Charger is superior in every respect to the CVPI- and at least as superior to the Imp. High trunk lines and smaller windows are just something police are going to have to adjust to because that's how cars are being designed. And- it's funny because you guys (some guys) here regularly talk about how huge the Taurus is-
Quote from: rohan on September 20, 2010, 05:36:11 PM
Ummmmm.. no he mentioned according to his uncle- a MSP- that the chargers are a) v6's prone to breakdowns b) v8's are expensive to the point they aren't fiscally justifiable.....
:huh:
Also since the Taurus hasn't been offered for service duty for more than a couple months there's no data that's worth anything about their reliabitly- either for ar against it. It's like saying the New Durango is unreliable because ones from 1992 were. What the 1993 or whatever Taurus was in the way of reliability or useability don't have anything to do with what the 2011 Taurus does. Or for that matter a civilian 2010 Taurus did-
Data vs. real world experience? Numerous problems in the first few months of service can be a good indicator of what is to come.
That being said...maybe he was talking about the 500/Taurus model, Taurus.
Nice photo gallery here:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=C4&Date=20100918&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=9180802&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=1
The Caprice is nice but their failure to move the shifter to the column is a bad mistake. Other than that it appears to be a stellar config. I am confident the Taurus will hold up. And, I like the idea of an AWD cruiser. As it is now the CVPI is useless in bad weather.
I like what I see with the Caprice
(http://www.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/chevrolet-caprice-police-patrol-vehicle-goes-out-on-duty-medium_7.jpg)
I'll take one unmarked Charger please
(http://cache-02.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2010/09/chargerzero_wm.jpg)
More detailed commentary on the whole thing:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/between-the-lines-for-police-every-week-is-panther-appreciation-week/
Quote from: bing_oh on September 20, 2010, 03:09:39 PM
Not to mention that there are some pretty physically big officers using these vehicles. Space and comfort is at a premium in LE vehicles.
Physically big? Is that cop-speak for FAT? Yeah, I see lots of "physically big" cops in my neck of the woods, too! :lol:
Quote from: Madman on September 20, 2010, 08:12:16 PMPhysically big? Is that cop-speak for FAT? Yeah, I see lots of "physically big" cops in my neck of the woods, too! :lol:
Yea, there are fat cops. There are also cops built like NFL linebackers. Both have issues when it comes to room in a cruiser.
Quote from: Catman on September 20, 2010, 07:08:27 PMThe Caprice is nice but their failure to move the shifter to the column is a bad mistake.
That's the first thing I thought when I saw the early release photos. The center console just has to be clear for lightboxes and radios. And, speaking of radios, the location Chevy has put them in the demo vehicles (back at the rear of the center console between the seatbacks) is a horrible indicator that somebody doesn't understand ergonomics and how certain equipment must be mounted in easily-accessable locations in a cruiser.
Quote from: MX793 on September 20, 2010, 05:03:59 PM
He was referring to packaging issues, not mechanical. Both the Taurus and Charger have compromised interior space and visibility in the name of exterior styling.
Yep. Using the smaller G8 as a proxy for the Caprice, it didn't have such issues.
This doesn't surprise me. I hope they work something out though. I was talking to a city cop the other day and I did mention that I noticed they all still had the old crown vics (their fleet is starting to look dated compared to the state troopers and even State Capitol and UAMS police which use Chargers). He said the department wasn't wild about the Chargers as a replacement and were still trying to decide what to replace the Crown Vics with in the long run, but in the meantime, they were just keeping them all running. I have to think they've bought a few new cars in the last year or two though, so I wonder what they bought. All I've ever seen from them are the Crown Vics.
I'd say most departments will go with the Dodge or the Chevy but I could see some being a bit hesitant about getting a Caprice because GM has a habit about not keeping cars on the market very long.
Dealer network is a big deciding factor as well. Around here Ford is 100% better supported than the other two.
Quote from: thewizard16 on September 20, 2010, 11:09:13 PM
This doesn't surprise me. I hope they work something out though. I was talking to a city cop the other day and I did mention that I noticed they all still had the old crown vics (their fleet is starting to look dated compared to the state troopers and even State Capitol and UAMS police which use Chargers). He said the department wasn't wild about the Chargers as a replacement and were still trying to decide what to replace the Crown Vics with in the long run, but in the meantime, they were just keeping them all running. I have to think they've bought a few new cars in the last year or two though, so I wonder what they bought. All I've ever seen from them are the Crown Vics.
I guess this also means that the supply of used CVPI's in
decent condition that go to auction for sale to the public will dry up because some departments will start to wring every last usable mile out of them before they are replaced.
Quote from: EtypeJohn on September 21, 2010, 06:33:30 AM
I guess this also means that the supply of used CVPI's in decent condition that go to auction for sale to the public will dry up because some departments will start to wring every last usable mile out of them before they are replaced.
Fair assessment
Aren't Taurus SHO's having issues with transmission failure?
Quote from: Submariner on September 20, 2010, 06:23:46 PM
Data vs. real world experience? Numerous problems in the first few months of service can be a good indicator of what is to come.
That being said...maybe he was talking about the 500/Taurus model, Taurus.
The real world experience is there is no real world experience with the Taurus as a patrol car yet. Civilian models can be a lot different then police models so the carry over betwen them shouldn't apply-
Quote from: EtypeJohn on September 21, 2010, 06:33:30 AM
I guess this also means that the supply of used CVPI's in decent condition that go to auction for sale to the public will dry up because some departments will start to wring every last usable mile out of them before they are replaced.
Not around here- the insurance carriers won't allow them to be over used (they give us a long breakdown of if vehicle has XXX miles and XXX mechanical failure + XXX other incident = replace vehicle type thing- now granted it's all major stuff but still they don't want the liability AND they don't want us to keep cars involved in collisions past a certain point regardless of if it's ever had a major failure) and many unions have replacement schedules in their contracts- in our department for instance we have to replace our cars by 85,000 miles where the state police replace theirs no later than 75,000 miles. The local departments usually replace them every 2 or 3 years.
Here's all the results
http://jalopnik.com/5644083/the-great-american-cop-car-shootout
I'm wondering about the parts accessibility of the Caprice. It's a Holden in drag, and there is no civilian version to supplement this, or any car that really shares too many parts with it. (G8.....but that didn't sell well). The Taurus's basic engine and platform (and likely parts) is shared with other models (and a civilian version) and so is the Charger.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 21, 2010, 08:42:35 PM
I'm wondering about the parts accessibility of the Caprice. It's a Holden in drag, and there is no civilian version to supplement this, or any car that really shares too many parts with it. (G8.....but that didn't sell well). The Taurus's basic engine and platform (and likely parts) is shared with other models (and a civilian version) and so is the Charger.
And so the plot thickens...
...that console shifter isn't helping its case, either.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 21, 2010, 08:42:35 PM
I'm wondering about the parts accessibility of the Caprice. It's a Holden in drag, and there is no civilian version to supplement this, or any car that really shares too many parts with it. (G8.....but that didn't sell well). The Taurus's basic engine and platform (and likely parts) is shared with other models (and a civilian version) and so is the Charger.
Suspension parts, brakes, trim and whatnot could be a huge pain, but the drivetrain is extremely similar to ones GM offers in North America - the 3.6L V6 and 6.0L(?) V8 are very common here. I'd doubt that GM would bother to use unique parts for common items such as alternators and water pumps for the Australian market either, but I could be wrong.
Quote from: Catman on September 21, 2010, 03:46:55 PM
Here's all the results
http://jalopnik.com/5644083/the-great-american-cop-car-shootout
Wow, the Caprice outran both the Hemi Charger and the Taurus SHO. And look at the slowpoke V8 Crown Vics trailing the Tahoe and even the pushrod V6 Impala...
Quote from: GoCougs on September 21, 2010, 10:14:17 PM
Wow, the Caprice outran both the Hemi Charger and the Taurus SHO. And look at the slowpoke V8 Crown Vics trailing the Tahoe and even the pushrod V6 Impala...
Anyone who claims a CVPI is fast is delusional. It might FEEL fast because they are so unwieldy. I would say that the improved road holding of the AWD Ford's is a big plus if the price is right. All of them have acceptable acceleration and even with the top speed being limited on the Ford's it won't be a big issue. I do think they shouldn't have limited the Ecoboost model though. You look at some of the Highway Patrols out west. 131 mph isn't really good.
With the talk about the console shifter in the Caprice well maybe this isn't the final model. As long as GM has been making police package cars I'm sure they would know better. Either way I think Ford will give up their sales lead in this field.
Quote from: Catman on September 22, 2010, 10:51:38 AM
Anyone who claims a CVPI is fast is delusional. It might FEEL fast because they are so unwieldy. I would say that the improved road holding of the AWD Ford's is a big plus if the price is right. All of them have acceptable acceleration and even with the top speed being limited on the Ford's it won't be a big issue. I do think they shouldn't have limited the Ecoboost model though. You look at some of the Highway Patrols out west. 131 mph isn't really good.
Yeah, kinda weird they keep the speed governor in place for LEO versions.
And look at the top speed on the Tahoe - 139 mph. Wow!
Quote from: Catman on September 22, 2010, 10:51:38 AMAnyone who claims a CVPI is fast is delusional. It might FEEL fast because they are so unwieldy. I would say that the improved road holding of the AWD Ford's is a big plus if the price is right. All of them have acceptable acceleration and even with the top speed being limited on the Ford's it won't be a big issue. I do think they shouldn't have limited the Ecoboost model though. You look at some of the Highway Patrols out west. 131 mph isn't really good.
The CVPI was never an impressive vehicle speed-wise (or acceleration-wise). Any LEO who ever drove the LT1 Caprice and then switched to the CVPI knew that.
I remember reading an article about the new Ford and the price of the AWD. I don't remember exactly how much they planned on charging extra, but I do remember thinking that it was rather pricy. And, for the road warriors out in the desert, 131 isn't really a blazing fast top speed. For most of us city cops, it's very adequate. Realistically, I prefer good acceleration over super-fast top speeds. I don't think I've ever broken maybe 125 on duty...probably less, realistically.
- i think the 2011 chevy will succeed at winning over the hearts of the ford crown victoria law enorcement fans. you? is it too small?
- will the new taurus squad car trump the crown vic? is the interior of the "smaller ford" too cramped?
- will sleek the 2011 dodge charger prove even better than the '10 enforcer package?
- will ford's turbo-charged ford sell better its standard v6 version?
- will the awd package of the ford police car outsell fwd versions?
- will the chevrolet caprice outsell the aged impala fleet special? it is rumored to be the cheapest - this should garner more sales if bidding is a factor.
- will all three cars (chevy, ford, dodge) be overshadowed by crossover like the explorer or suv's like chevy's tahoe or the rumored dodge durango?
check out some preliminary results. each has its advantages!
http://www.allpar.com/squads/police-cars/MSP-cars-2011.html
am not an officer; thus wonder why so many do not like floor shifters whatsoever (my informal interviews and reading). i did not probe. any takers as to why this seems to be a consensus (and can truly hurt chevrolet win over fleet buyers)? for civilians, i think most rather not contend with steering wheel shifters.
Quote from: Atomic on September 22, 2010, 02:29:50 PM
am not an officer; thus wonder why so many do not like floor shifters whatsoever (my informal interviews and reading). i did not probe. any takers as to why this seems to be a consensus (and can truly hurt chevrolet win over fleet buyers)? for civilians, i think most rather not contend with steering wheel shifters.
Cops like to have laptops and such where the floor shifter is.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on September 21, 2010, 09:11:28 PM
Suspension parts, brakes, trim and whatnot could be a huge pain, but the drivetrain is extremely similar to ones GM offers in North America - the 3.6L V6 and 6.0L(?) V8 are very common here. I'd doubt that GM would bother to use unique parts for common items such as alternators and water pumps for the Australian market either, but I could be wrong.
The Caprice is actually a platform-mate to the Camaro and the Zeta platform is fairly closely related to the Sigma platform that underpins the Caddy CTS and STS (there is some component sharing between the two).
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 22, 2010, 03:30:28 PM
Cops like to have laptops and such where the floor shifter is.
i see. thanks!
Quote from: Atomic on September 22, 2010, 05:25:26 PM
i see. thanks!
If we had to go to a car with a floor shifter we would have to go to a totally different computer solution. A rugged laptop won't work well in that environment. We'd have to move to a terminal type computer which would add about $3000 per car. :nono:
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 22, 2010, 03:30:28 PMCops like to have laptops and such where the floor shifter is.
Not just laptops but lightbar and siren boxes, radios, etc. There are alot of controls for various thing in cruisers that need to be easily accessable while driving (and, sometimes, driving fast). That center console area is the most convenient place for those things.
Quote from: bing_oh on September 22, 2010, 06:58:19 PM
Not just laptops but lightbar and siren boxes, radios, etc. There are alot of controls for various thing in cruisers that need to be easily accessable while driving (and, sometimes, driving fast). That center console area is the most convenient place for those things.
I was including that stuff in the "and such" part. :lol:
Quote from: Catman on September 22, 2010, 06:33:21 PM
If we had to go to a car with a floor shifter we would have to go to a totally different computer solution. A rugged laptop won't work well in that environment. We'd have to move to a terminal type computer which would add about $3000 per car. :nono:
calling all taxpayers! yikes :confused:.
Maybe I missed this, but when can we expect to see these cars on the street?
Quote from: MaxPower on September 23, 2010, 06:51:04 AMMaybe I missed this, but when can we expect to see these cars on the street?
I believe they're all 2011 model year.
Quote from: bing_oh on September 22, 2010, 06:58:19 PM
That center console area is the most convenient place for those things.
Probably why they put buttons on the center console to begin with :lol:
Quote from: Mustangfan2003 on September 22, 2010, 11:01:27 AMWith the talk about the console shifter in the Caprice well maybe this isn't the final model. As long as GM has been making police package cars I'm sure they would know better. Either way I think Ford will give up their sales lead in this field.
Chevy was asked about this when they first announced the model. They said that the center shifter is final on the production car. :facepalm:
Wow that is dumb. Looks like the Charger might be the better option to go with here.
Quote from: bing_oh on September 24, 2010, 06:28:56 AM
Chevy was asked about this when they first announced the model. They said that the center shifter is final on the production car. :facepalm:
They'll create their version of the iDrive for cops.. then you'll have to scroll through 50 menus just to turn on your lights and sirens. :lol:
Quote from: bing_oh on September 24, 2010, 06:28:56 AM
Chevy was asked about this when they first announced the model. They said that the center shifter is final on the production car. :facepalm:
IIRC, it will be that way initially because they don't have any column shift parts for that car, but they are looking to move the shifter to the column in the future.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on September 21, 2010, 09:11:28 PM
Suspension parts, brakes, trim and whatnot could be a huge pain, but the drivetrain is extremely similar to ones GM offers in North America - the 3.6L V6 and 6.0L(?) V8 are very common here. I'd doubt that GM would bother to use unique parts for common items such as alternators and water pumps for the Australian market either, but I could be wrong.
You would be wrong.
Police alternators are in the 200 amp range, with Ford using some type of "generator" system, or at least that what they were calling it last time I was involved. Civilian models are, I believe, in the 115-130 amp range.
However, even with 200 amps police cars were running out of juice which is why LEDs became so popular; 1/4th or less of the amp draw over other more traditional lightbars.
Also, police cars use larger radiators, hoses and pumps than do their civilian counterparts so that they can sit at idle with the emergency lights going and remain cool and also so that they may out perform civilan cars in hard driving situations.
Generally, they use larger shocks/struts, different rate springs, larger diameter torsion bars, control arms, ball joints, different pads and rotors, bigger batteries. The used to have heavier guage floor pans which were protected with skid plates, but that was awhile back, and I am not certain they still do that. In fact, I am not sure they still use different parts in all those areas anymore. (I guess I should be careful about reminding people I no longer have inside knowledge)
They also have engine oil and transmission fluid coolers.
Police cars look the same, but in many areas you can not see they are much different.
Quote from: MX793 on September 24, 2010, 03:09:36 PM
IIRC, it will be that way initially because they don't have any column shift parts for that car, but they are looking to move the shifter to the column in the future.
That is mere excuse. They simply wanted to see if the car was interesting to PDs.
If it was, they would invest the cash to make the change.
If not, then not.
Quote from: Catman on September 22, 2010, 10:51:38 AM
Anyone who claims a CVPI is fast is delusional. It might FEEL fast because they are so unwieldy. I would say that the improved road holding of the AWD Ford's is a big plus if the price is right. All of them have acceptable acceleration and even with the top speed being limited on the Ford's it won't be a big issue. I do think they shouldn't have limited the Ecoboost model though. You look at some of the Highway Patrols out west. 131 mph isn't really good.
Quote from: bing_oh on September 22, 2010, 12:36:31 PM
The CVPI was never an impressive vehicle speed-wise (or acceleration-wise). Any LEO who ever drove the LT1 Caprice and then switched to the CVPI knew that.
I remember reading an article about the new Ford and the price of the AWD. I don't remember exactly how much they planned on charging extra, but I do remember thinking that it was rather pricy. And, for the road warriors out in the desert, 131 isn't really a blazing fast top speed. For most of us city cops, it's very adequate. Realistically, I prefer good acceleration over super-fast top speeds. I don't think I've ever broken maybe 125 on duty...probably less, realistically.
However, if you look at the actual performance numbers the Crown Vic was on the same level as the Caprice.
In fact, in many areas, the Crown Vic was as fast or faster than the LT-1 powered Caprice.
The Caprice was often purchased with the electronic governor, so it was limited to 125ish.
People remember the Caprice as being a barn burner, and it was for 1996 which was the end of the line, but in reality it was no better than the Crown at the end of the line.
Bigger and nicer to drive, but not a better performer.
The problem for the Ford is that it just never really stayed with the times, as evidenced by the V6 cars being better.
Quote from: hounddog on September 26, 2010, 10:50:08 AM
That is mere excuse. They simply wanted to see if the car was interesting to PDs.
If it was, they would invest the cash to make the change.
If not, then not.
You'd think they'd try to modify the truck column shifter from the Escalade since it tilts and telescopes for duty in the car. Apparently not...
I want to know why an Australian police officer does not require their Holden Commodore to have a column shifter, but an American one does.
Quote from: 93JC on September 26, 2010, 02:31:25 PM
I want to know why an Australian police officer does not require their Holden Commodore to have a column shifter, but an American one does.
Not sure they have the same amount of equipment we do?
Quote from: the Teuton on September 26, 2010, 12:41:12 PM
You'd think they'd try to modify the truck column shifter from the Escalade since it tilts and telescopes for duty in the car. Apparently not...
Or use the one from the Impala.
Quote from: Catman on September 26, 2010, 02:50:44 PM
Not sure they have the same amount of equipment we do?
Maybe they do have column shifters, but they don't work with a LHD car?
Quote from: NomisR on September 24, 2010, 01:15:06 PM
They'll create their version of the iDrive for cops.. then you'll have to scroll through 50 menus just to turn on your lights and sirens. :lol:
Uhmm, actually BMW police cars have an iDrive for cops. Everything is integrated. They do have a seperate mobil keyboard though, plus some dedicated buttons.
Quote from: MX793 on September 26, 2010, 05:18:29 PM
Maybe they do have column shifters, but they don't work with a LHD car?
No, they don't. The newest Commodore was never designed to have a column shift, and Australian cop versions have console shifters just like the regular Commodores.