174mph Ferrari Is 'Too Slow'
It isn't often that you hear 'Ferrari' and 'too slow' in the same sentence. But that's the complaint raised by one businessman who is demanding a refund over the performance of his ?135,475 360 Challenge Stradale.
Joerg Winterberg, 60, of Berlin, Germany, moaned to Ferrari that his limited-edition supercar was 'only' capable of 174mph, and not the 185mph figure claimed in the sales brochure. "I could have bought a Porsche for much less and still had the same performance. I want my money back," he said. However, the Italian manufacturer has refused to give in to the disappointed owner's demands.
Still, Ferrari does have some happy customers. An auction of rare models at its Maranello factory raised a staggering ?7million. The most expensive item sold was Michael Schumacher's 2004 Formula One title-winning race car, which went for a wallet-busting ?1.8million. Other exotica sold off included a 1961 250 GTB Berlinetta, which fetched ?800,000, and a 1966 365 California that raised ?510,000
A viable complaint when you don't live in a land of oppressive speed limits.
QuoteA viable complaint when you don't live in a land of oppressive speed limits.
:lol: If he complained that in the US he'd be in jail now :D
That's the sort of thing you're supposed to check out BEFORE you buy a car. It would be like a Grand Marquis owner asking for his money back because he could have gotten the same thing for less money in a Crown Vic.
QuoteThat's the sort of thing you're supposed to check out BEFORE you buy a car. It would be like a Grand Marquis owner asking for his money back because he could have gotten the same thing for less money in a Crown Vic.
Well, if Ferrari promises something, and they dont give it, he has a right to complain.
QuoteQuoteThat's the sort of thing you're supposed to check out BEFORE you buy a car. It would be like a Grand Marquis owner asking for his money back because he could have gotten the same thing for less money in a Crown Vic.
Well, if Ferrari promises something, and they dont give it, he has a right to complain.
Usually statistics like that say "actual results may vary", or something similar. A 6% difference in top speed does not warrant a refund of hundreds of thousands of dollars, nor should it determine which vehicle you buy.
QuoteQuoteQuoteThat's the sort of thing you're supposed to check out BEFORE you buy a car. It would be like a Grand Marquis owner asking for his money back because he could have gotten the same thing for less money in a Crown Vic.
Well, if Ferrari promises something, and they dont give it, he has a right to complain.
Usually statistics like that say "actual results may vary", or something similar. A 6% difference in top speed does not warrant a refund of hundreds of thousands of dollars, nor should it determine which vehicle you buy.
I agree with that, but Ferraris are all about speed, and thats a significant difference in lets say a race or something...(or any race). With a normal car thats is no problem, but this is a Ferrari. He paid so much he should get what he paid for.
All figures are subject to some leeway based on the individual vehicle, and I'd say 6% is more than reasonable.
QuoteAll figures are subject to some leeway based on the individual vehicle, and I'd say 6% is more than reasonable.
Not for a Ferrari.
QuoteQuoteQuoteThat's the sort of thing you're supposed to check out BEFORE you buy a car. It would be like a Grand Marquis owner asking for his money back because he could have gotten the same thing for less money in a Crown Vic.
Well, if Ferrari promises something, and they dont give it, he has a right to complain.
Usually statistics like that say "actual results may vary", or something similar. A 6% difference in top speed does not warrant a refund of hundreds of thousands of dollars, nor should it determine which vehicle you buy.
I agree that top speed shouldn't be a deciding factor when buying an econo car in the USA, but buying a Ferrari in Germany is a bit different. Ferraris are meant to go fast and in Germany you can do it legally.
What if its broken?
This is ridiculous. It doesn't say anything about the guy racing in the car, nor does it say exactly how he determined how fast the car would go. My guess is that he decided that he didn't really want to have spent so much money on a car, and is trying to find a way to back out. I'm with Ferrari on this, he shouldn't get his money back at all.
So because you don't race your car the manufacturer shouldn't have to deliver on its claims?
How about another example: BMW estimates a 0-60 time of 6.8 seconds for the new 325i manual. If I buy that car, and can only personally get it to 60 mph in 7.2 seconds, am I entitled to my money back?
QuoteHow about another example: BMW estimates a 0-60 time of 6.8 seconds for the new 325i manual. If I buy that car, and can only personally get it to 60 mph in 7.2 seconds, am I entitled to my money back?
No, you only spent $35000, this guy spent at least $195000, probably closer to $250000 (I don't know how bad mark up is over there).
Has it already been proven that it is a problem with the car rather than a user error?
QuoteQuoteHow about another example: BMW estimates a 0-60 time of 6.8 seconds for the new 325i manual. If I buy that car, and can only personally get it to 60 mph in 7.2 seconds, am I entitled to my money back?
No, you only spent $35000, this guy spent at least $195000, probably closer to $250000 (I don't know how bad mark up is over there).
So if you spend less, it's your problem if you're quoted specs that you can't match, but if you spend a lot it suddenly matters?
QuoteHas it already been proven that it is a problem with the car rather than a user error?
How can it be user error? Is it really that hard to press the accelerator all the way to the floor? :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteHas it already been proven that it is a problem with the car rather than a user error?
How can it be user error? Is it really that hard to press the accelerator all the way to the floor? :rolleyes:
My question is if he ever proved to Ferrari that the car couldn't go as fast as they quoted.
The thing is running his slow ferrari at top speed all the time will turn his engine into mush. He's just got a case of buyers remorse, deal with it man. I feel really sorry for him.
Ifcar, its totally different if one drive can shift faster than you, in which case you have no case. But here, at the end of the day, no matter how slow you are able to get there, the fact is that this ferrari should top out at a certain speed, which it didnt.
QuoteIfcar, its totally different if one drive can shift faster than you, in which case you have no case. But here, at the end of the day, no matter how slow you are able to get there, the fact is that this ferrari should top out at a certain speed, which it didnt.
Did Mr. Businessman prove it, or just say it?
QuoteQuoteIfcar, its totally different if one drive can shift faster than you, in which case you have no case. But here, at the end of the day, no matter how slow you are able to get there, the fact is that this ferrari should top out at a certain speed, which it didnt.
Did Mr. Businessman prove it, or just say it?
I really have no idea...I am basing my argument on the assumption that this is true.
That is never something that one should just assume.
Because then you make an ass out of Iffy and you.
big deal. i bet that old guy can't even handle 174 m.p.h. anyway.
Here's the car he's trying to return after topping it out.
(http://www.czechferrari.cz/obrferrcrash/360cs_02.jpg)
How did that one crash, bryan?
QuoteHow did that one crash, bryan?
he took it off-roading at 174 m.p.h. :lol:
It doesn't say but looks to be about 80k in damage. I would say this was maybe a offroad excursion into a field with slight ditch/drop off before the field also a pole or post hit in the front.
(http://www.czechferrari.cz/obrferrcrash/360cs_01.jpg)
That sight hurts my eyes...I always hate it when I see wrecked exotics. :(
QuoteThat sight hurts my eyes...I always hate it when I see wrecked exotics. :(
http://wreckedexotics.com/ (http://wreckedexotics.com/)
:lol:
QuoteQuoteThat sight hurts my eyes...I always hate it when I see wrecked exotics. :(
http://wreckedexotics.com/ (http://wreckedexotics.com/)
:lol:
:lol:
I have looked at that site, and a great deal of the cars there were wrecked by totally reckless drivers. Its not like they were in an accident through no fault of their own.
QuoteQuoteQuoteThat sight hurts my eyes...I always hate it when I see wrecked exotics. :(
http://wreckedexotics.com/ (http://wreckedexotics.com/)
:lol:
:lol:
I have looked at that site, and a great deal of the cars there were wrecked by totally reckless drivers. Its not like they were in an accident through no fault of their own.
(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/vanquish/vanquish_20030602_001.jpg)
Description:
Car dealer was demonstrating the handling of this Aston Martin when he lost control and totalled it. Photo was taken using a phone camera.
Damn it, that guy is an asshole!
They have six pages of other wrecked Astons. Shall I post you a link? :P
QuoteDamn it, that guy is an asshole!
like you? :lol:
QuoteQuoteDamn it, that guy is an asshole!
like you? :lol:
like you :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteDamn it, that guy is an asshole!
like you? :lol:
like you :rolleyes:
Real clever. :P
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDamn it, that guy is an asshole!
like you? :lol:
like you :rolleyes:
Real clever. :P
I know :lol:
I passed this dumpy car dealer right down the road from my house a bit and I saw a sad site. I was going to grab my G6 and come back to take some pics but when I got home the honeydoos started and the next day it was gone. It was this model
(http://members.tripod.com/~J_Magnum/Lamborghini/Diablo_03.jpg)
on a trailer with major front, right side damage and looked to have slid on the roof. I was thinking ooouch that sucks.
(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/vanquish/vanquish_20041021_001.jpg)
Description:
Driver was testing the vehicle in the rain when he lost control and spun around twice before crashing into a ditch.
damn...those cars are so nice! It probably costs like 100K to repair that.
QuoteI passed this dumpy car dealer right down the road from my house a bit and I saw a sad site. I was going to grab my G6 and come back to take some pics but when I got home the honeydoos started and the next day it was gone. It was this model
(http://members.tripod.com/~J_Magnum/Lamborghini/Diablo_03.jpg)
on a trailer with major front, right side damage and looked to have slid on the roof. I was thinking ooouch that sucks.
The worst crashes are the ones that destroy rare cars that cannot be replaced or repaired.
Quotedamn...those cars are so nice! It probably costs like 100K to repair that.
Oh, there are worse ones. Many at this level:
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/exotics/2murcielago_20050616_001.jpg)
Description:
Lost control and fishtailed into a building
I was wondering what the guy paid for it trashed like it was. I would think along the lines of 30k but still just wondering. That's why I wanted to stop as well, see how the engine still looked and what was salvageable.
(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/maserati/maserati_20041214_001.jpg)
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDamn it, that guy is an asshole!
like you? :lol:
like you :rolleyes:
Real clever. :P
I know :lol:
great comeback. :rolleyes:
QuoteQuotedamn...those cars are so nice! It probably costs like 100K to repair that.
Oh, there are worse ones. Many at this level:
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/exotics/2murcielago_20050616_001.jpg)
Description:
Lost control and fishtailed into a building
stick a fork in this one.. new panels all the way around, bent frame and definite engine damage on impact. Ugh.
(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/f50/f50_040202_002.jpg)
arghh!
oh nose!
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/exotics/3carreragt_20050602_002.jpg)
Quote(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/maserati/maserati_20041214_001.jpg)
Damn, the steering wheel is where the mirror should be.
(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/enzo/enzo_20040205_003.jpg)
Abpit 400K in damages! :o
my fav:
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/weird/weird614b.jpg)
Car:
2004 Mazda RX8
Description:
At first, this picture doesn't look very interesting, but the story behind it is funny as hell. This car had stalled out and the owner tried for several hours to get the car running again. He eventually got so frustrated that he destoryed his own car. Check out the windshield. He also broke the rear glass and kicked and punched just about every body panel.
Location:
Holland
:lol: :lol:
So what's the top speed supposed to be? 190? How can he be sure that he's running the same conditions that a top speed test has? Was it windy? How are his tires? How much does he weigh? That's like piling four people into a 2 seater car and complaining that it doesn't have four seats--or filling your car with luggage and complaining that it's doesn't go 0-60 exactly as advertised. I hope this fucking moron doesn't see a cent.
(http://www.lambo.com.pl/galeria/crash/grafika/diablo_gtr.jpg)
(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/z8/z8_20040918_001.jpg)
James Bond. :rolleyes:
Catman coming home from an all nighter binge drinking.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/wannabemustangjockey/copcar_wallpaper.jpg)
Nice parking job Catman, don't think the wifes going to like it though. Don't forget to watch your step as you get out.
(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/carreragt/carreraGT_20041215_001.jpg)
The good news is that this car was repaired.
QuoteCatman coming home from an all nighter binge drinking.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/wannabemustangjockey/copcar_wallpaper.jpg)
Nice parking job Catman, don't think the wifes going to like it though. Don't forget to watch your step as you get out.
:lol: :lol:
R33^^ :lol:
Quote(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/carreragt/carreraGT_20041215_001.jpg)
The good news is that this car was repaired.
It was repaired and his new insurance premium for 6 months is 19k.
QuoteQuote(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/carreragt/carreraGT_20041215_001.jpg)
The good news is that this car was repaired.
It was repaired and his new insurance premium for 6 months is 19k.
I'm sure he can afford it :lol:
I'm sure he can but someone still needs to beat the hell out of him for doing that to such a fine piece of machinery.
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad554.jpg)
Description:
Driver fell asleep and ran head on into a Ford Explorer. Luckily the accident happened right in front of a fire station or else the driver would have burned alive. After 3 years of rehab, driver can now walk again. Other driver was not injured badly.
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad553.jpg)
Description:
This is what a Neon looks like after rolling 4 times at 130 MPH. Driver walked away, passenger nearly died
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad555.jpg)
Description:
Young driver committed suicide by crashed into a bulldozer at over 100 mph because his girlfriend had just dumped him
The last picture doesnt work.
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad402.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad406.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad394.jpg)
Description:
Police car crossed the median while chasing a car at 100MPH. Hit a truck head on. Deputy survived the accident.
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad395.jpg)
Description:
Here's a scary sight. This accident was caused when a Ford Explorer hit a Chevrolet Cavalier and they both fell off a very high cliff.
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad393.jpg)
Those cars are absolutely mangled!
QuoteThe last picture doesnt work.
Works now.
QuoteQuoteThe last picture doesnt work.
Works now.
There are better ways to commit suicide than crashing your car! :lol:
those are horrid
iffy, i think there's a rule in C/D that says that you can't post pics of crahsed cars. perhaps we should do the same here.
Quoteiffy, i think there's a rule in C/D that says that you can't post pics of crahsed cars. perhaps we should do the same here.
Why? Whats wrong with crashed cars?
QuoteQuoteiffy, i think there's a rule in C/D that says that you can't post pics of crahsed cars. perhaps we should do the same here.
Why? Whats wrong with crashed cars?
dunno, but what's the point of posting mangled cars? and, it could also cause discomfort or bring back some bad memories of car accidents to some people. i know people like that. just saying. :shrugs:
QuoteQuoteQuoteiffy, i think there's a rule in C/D that says that you can't post pics of crahsed cars. perhaps we should do the same here.
Why? Whats wrong with crashed cars?
dunno, but what's the point of posting mangled cars? and, it could also cause discomfort or bring back some bad memories of car accidents to some people. i know people like that. just saying. :shrugs:
I guess you could say that, but no one has expressed discomfort yet because of that reason.
If anyone complains who's actually suffering from the problem themselves, we'll consider such a policy. Until then:
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad566.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad232.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad224.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad216.jpg)
^ :lol:
AAAAAAUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! The Discomfort! i'm dying!
now can you stop posting such pics cos i said i'm uncomfortable?
Nope. I said we'd CONSIDER a policy change. I considered it, you figure out what I decided:
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad351.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad335.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad337.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad302.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad297.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad296.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad294.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad312.jpg)
(http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad309___.jpg)
you know, i don't htink it's very nice to post pics of smashed cars....
^^ :lol:
Quoteyou know, i don't htink it's very nice to post pics of smashed cars....
And I don't think your presence benefits the forums in any way whatsoever.
Oh well, agree to disagree I suppose.
QuoteQuoteyou know, i don't htink it's very nice to post pics of smashed cars....
And I don't think your presence benefits the forums in any way whatsoever.
Oh well, agree to disagree I suppose.
do you get some pleasure out of posting pics of smashed cars?
oh, and i make the forum appear busier, so the forums do benefit out of my presence.
Quoteoh, and i make the forum appear busier, so the forums do benefit out of my presence.
You make the forum seem to be composed uninformed and unintelligent members as well, offsetting any activity gain.
QuoteQuoteoh, and i make the forum appear busier, so the forums do benefit out of my presence.
You make the forum seem to be composed uninformed and unintelligent members as well, offsetting any activity gain.
Well said.
QuoteQuoteQuoteoh, and i make the forum appear busier, so the forums do benefit out of my presence.
You make the forum seem to be composed uninformed and unintelligent members as well, offsetting any activity gain.
Well said.
hey, shut up you. i wasn't talking to you. :angry: :angry:
:lol: :lol:
QuoteQuoteoh, and i make the forum appear busier, so the forums do benefit out of my presence.
You make the forum seem to be composed uninformed and unintelligent members as well, offsetting any activity gain.
how am i unintelligent? just cos i whore sometimes/
QuoteQuoteQuoteoh, and i make the forum appear busier, so the forums do benefit out of my presence.
You make the forum seem to be composed uninformed and unintelligent members as well, offsetting any activity gain.
how am i unintelligent? just cos i whore sometimes/
The fact that you had to ask this question should at least make the answer even clearer to everyone else. ;)
Damn, a moderator violating the user agreement, aint that a bitch.
QuoteDamn, a moderator violating the user agreement, aint that a bitch.
What part of the "user agreement" (I assume you are referring to the "forum guidelines") are you talking about? I see nothing in there that I am not following.
QuoteQuoteDamn, a moderator violating the user agreement, aint that a bitch.
What part of the "user agreement" (I assume you are referring to the "forum guidelines") are you talking about? I see nothing in there that I am not following.
Well you might want to read a little closer Iffy. If I'm reading it wrong then I guess I am but it does seem from the wording in the agreement you are in violation and subject to diciplinary action. ;)
Please post exactly what you are referring to. There is nothing at all in there that I found regarding anything relevent here, and certainly nothing whatsoever about "disciplinary measures". I can't tell if you're trying to be funny or serious, but you're failing either way.
QuotePlease post exactly what you are referring to. There is nothing at all in there that I found regarding anything relevent here, and certainly nothing whatsoever about "disciplinary measures". I can't tell if you're trying to be funny or serious, but you're failing either way.
Me fail? Right. :lol:
Look what just happened to this Porsche Cayenne the Lebanese Deputy Prime Minister Elias Murr was driving.
(http://www.foxnews.com/images/169478/3_23_071205_lebanon_bomb.jpg)
Did he crash it or get a bomb dropped on it?
QuoteDid he crash it or get a bomb dropped on it?
bomb
QuoteQuoteDid he crash it or get a bomb dropped on it?
bomb
:lol: