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Auto Talk => Driving and the Law => Topic started by: Klackamas on July 07, 2019, 07:59:25 PM

Title: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: Klackamas on July 07, 2019, 07:59:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A_jLgTaRjQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzWu9NVlljo


(http://i.imgur.com/hAe3Imd.png)

(http://tribwxmi.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/msp-trooper-arrests-driver-detroit-070519.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&resize=1200,681)


http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/msp-officer-runs-stops-sign-hit-by-car-arrests-other-driver


Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: giant_mtb on July 08, 2019, 06:35:52 AM
Ouch.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: Soup DeVille on July 08, 2019, 06:46:56 AM
Asshole goes right to "get on your knees, hands up" mode. Not even checking if anyone was hurt, if anyone else is still in the car; not even checking on his own passenger. To serve and protect my ass.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: mzziaz on July 08, 2019, 12:10:44 PM
Not good.


The red car was probably driving way over the speed limit, though.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: FoMoJo on July 08, 2019, 12:28:13 PM
Surprising that there wasn't more damage to the red car.  Hard to tell the speed though.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: Soup DeVille on July 08, 2019, 01:16:28 PM
Quote from: mzziaz on July 08, 2019, 12:10:44 PM
Not good.


The red car was probably driving way over the speed limit, though.

Looks like it, but what happened afterwards is more troubling.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: CaminoRacer on July 08, 2019, 01:37:58 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 08, 2019, 01:16:28 PM
Looks like it, but what happened afterwards is more troubling.

Yeah, even if the cop didn't roll through the stop sign and it was somehow the red car's fault, t-boning someone isn't an arrest-able offense and surely not the first thing you do to someone who was just in an accident and could be severely injured. The cop either needs a LOT of re-training or should be fired.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: Gotta-Qik-C7 on July 08, 2019, 06:02:02 PM
Quote from: mzziaz on July 08, 2019, 12:10:44 PM
The red car was probably driving way over the speed limit, though.
This will be the excuse they use to make it the Latin guys fault.............   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: Klackamas on July 08, 2019, 08:08:47 PM
It's not a training problem. The cop knows what he is doing is wrong with the arrest.

Also, that red car is before the time of a "black box", so the cops are FOS when they say they're going to examine it.  They're simply stalling for time to make up a good story. A few people need to lose their jobs over this.

Finally, I don't think this is a Latin thing. They'll do it to anyone. 
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: Gotta-Qik-C7 on July 08, 2019, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Klackamas on July 08, 2019, 08:08:47 PM
It's not a training problem. The cop knows what he is doing is wrong with the arrest.

Also, that red car is before the time of a "black box", so the cops are FOS when they say they're going to examine it.  They're simply stalling for time to make up a good story. A few people need to lose their jobs over this.

Finally, I don't think this is a Latin thing. They'll do it to anyone. 
I just said Latin to Clarify who I was talking about..........
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: CaminoRacer on July 08, 2019, 10:31:47 PM
Quote from: Klackamas on July 08, 2019, 08:08:47 PM
It's not a training problem. The cop knows what he is doing is wrong with the arrest.

Also, that red car is before the time of a "black box", so the cops are FOS when they say they're going to examine it.  They're simply stalling for time to make up a good story. A few people need to lose their jobs over this.

Finally, I don't think this is a Latin thing. They'll do it to anyone. 

Idk I wouldn't be surprised if his reaction was very different had it been a lawyer in an Lexus or something like that. Not very often you see an upper middle class person arrested like that
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: GoCougs on July 09, 2019, 09:37:53 AM
The driver of the car was speeding excessively - could even be criminally (i.e., arrestable) so. But it all went down because undercover LEOs blew the stop sign.

The whole undercover police thing is also disturbing.

And you bet the driver was treated this way because of (perceived) class.

Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: FoMoJo on July 09, 2019, 10:00:39 AM
Quote from: GoCougs on July 09, 2019, 09:37:53 AM
The driver of the car was speeding excessively - could even be criminally (i.e., arrestable) so. But it all went down because undercover LEOs blew the stop sign.

The whole undercover police thing is also disturbing.

And you bet the driver was treated this way because of (perceived) class.
Can you really tell if the driver was speeding excessively?  From the damage, it really doesn't appear so.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: MrH on July 09, 2019, 02:22:12 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on July 09, 2019, 09:37:53 AM
The driver of the car was speeding excessively - could even be criminally (i.e., arrestable) so. But it all went down because undercover LEOs blew the stop sign.

The whole undercover police thing is also disturbing.

And you bet the driver was treated this way because of (perceived) class.



Yep.

I think there's one thing all sides can agree on: mandatory body/vehicle cams.  Doesn't seem that difficult and would get bipartisan support.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: 12,000 RPM on July 10, 2019, 06:30:52 AM
Quote from: MrH on July 09, 2019, 02:22:12 PM
Yep.

I think there's one thing all sides can agree on: mandatory body/vehicle cams.  Doesn't seem that difficult and would get bipartisan support.

Body cams only do so much... they can be covered, turned off, you name it.

Cops need better training and more accountability
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: CaminoRacer on July 10, 2019, 08:24:03 AM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 10, 2019, 06:30:52 AM
Body cams only do so much... they can be covered, turned off, you name it.

Cops need better training and more accountability

But it's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: GoCougs on July 10, 2019, 09:13:03 AM
Quote from: FoMoJo on July 09, 2019, 10:00:39 AM
Can you really tell if the driver was speeding excessively?  From the damage, it really doesn't appear so.

He twirled the LEO vehicle 360, and that looks like a residential (25 mph) street. My bet is 45-50 mph.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: RomanChariot on July 10, 2019, 09:40:23 AM
Quote from: FoMoJo on July 09, 2019, 10:00:39 AM
Can you really tell if the driver was speeding excessively?  From the damage, it really doesn't appear so.

There isn't as much damage because the car hit the SUV in the back corner causing the back tires to lift and the force of the collision was transferred into vehicle motion rather than body damage. If it had hit in the middle of the vehicle it would have caused much more extensive body damage to both vehicles. The red car was clearly well above the 25mph speed limit and the officer clearly handled the situation poorly.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: FoMoJo on July 10, 2019, 09:42:34 AM
Quote from: GoCougs on July 10, 2019, 09:13:03 AM
He twirled the LEO vehicle 360, and that looks like a residential (25 mph) street. My bet is 45-50 mph.
It would take a pretty strong force to do that, I agree, but the damage to the car was not that extensive.  Given that he may have been going 10+ mph over the speed limit, there was, virtually, no time to brake, as the view of the intersection is blocked by parked cars, the impact might well have been 30+ mph, which is a pretty substantial force.  The cop was in the wrong in both respects.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: GoCougs on July 10, 2019, 01:04:32 PM
Quote from: CaminoRacer on July 10, 2019, 08:24:03 AM
But it's a step in the right direction.

Much to dismay of some, the notable yet unforeseen benefit of dash/body cams is that they did a lot for convicting perps and protecting LEOs against false accusations.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: BimmerM3 on July 10, 2019, 01:46:14 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on July 10, 2019, 01:04:32 PM
Much to dismay of some, the notable yet unforeseen benefit of dash/body cams is that they did a lot for convicting perps and protecting LEOs against false accusations.

That was definitely not unforeseen (it was a common argument about why cops should support them), and extremely few people will be dismayed by that.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: MrH on July 10, 2019, 02:34:13 PM
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 10, 2019, 01:46:14 PM
That was definitely not unforeseen (it was a common argument about why cops should support them), and extremely few people will be dismayed by that.

Exactly.  Both sides win, which is what people want.  Real criminals can go to jail, and so can cops who abuse their position of power.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: CaminoRacer on July 10, 2019, 02:40:39 PM
Quote from: MrH on July 10, 2019, 02:34:13 PM
Exactly.  Both sides win, which is what people want.  Real criminals can go to jail, and so can cops who abuse their position of power.

Yup! Justice needs the truth, not he-said she-said
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: Soup DeVille on July 10, 2019, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: MrH on July 10, 2019, 02:34:13 PM
Exactly.  Both sides win, which is what people want.  Real criminals can go to jail, and so can cops who abuse their position of power.

most cops can and do turn off their body cams. Some departments and states are starting to enact consequences formthat.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: Galaxy on July 10, 2019, 11:38:48 PM
Quote from: MrH on July 09, 2019, 02:22:12 PM
I think there's one thing all sides can agree on: mandatory body/vehicle cams.  Doesn't seem that difficult and would get bipartisan support.

I agree. The US is actually ahead of most countries in that regard.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: MX793 on July 11, 2019, 07:13:18 AM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 10, 2019, 03:37:53 PM
most cops can and do turn off their body cams. Some departments and states are starting to enact consequences formthat.

There was a case around here maybe a year ago where a cop pulled over another cop (off duty) for DWI.  The on-duty officer, upon recognizing the drunk as a fellow cop, immediately shut his cameras off, likely planning to just give his fellow officer a warning and a ride home so as not to damage his career.  The drunk cop got belligerent and started throwing punches, another cop (county sheriff, IIRC) came by the scene.  No camera footage to show how it all went down.  When all was said and done, one of the arresting officer had some minor injuries, the drunk lost his job, and the one who shut his cameras off, as well as the department, faced some uncomfortable questions from the public and higher ups.  I believe they since mandated cameras on at all times.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: GoCougs on July 11, 2019, 09:01:26 AM
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 10, 2019, 01:46:14 PM
That was definitely not unforeseen (it was a common argument about why cops should support them), and extremely few people will be dismayed by that.

It was mos def unforeseen because that was not the justification for enacting such policies, which only confirmed that in 99%+ of LE vs. civilian contact situations, LE is right and the civilian is wrong (i.e., the plan to buckdown law enforcement failed which dismayed said policy pushers).
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: GoCougs on July 11, 2019, 09:28:12 AM
Quote from: MrH on July 10, 2019, 02:34:13 PM
Exactly.  Both sides win, which is what people want.  Real criminals can go to jail, and so can cops who abuse their position of power.

I'm on the fence for a few reasons.

I would likely not agree to my employer making me wear a body cam, to record 100% of my workday interactions, just because, well, fuck that noise.

A body or dash cam is not 100% truth, as they do not provide exact LEO POV, which matters in stressful/threatening/etc., situations (a lot of the times a situation has to be judged on perception of the individual under scrutiny).

It's probably overall a net positive, but way far away from perfect.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: CaminoRacer on July 11, 2019, 10:05:46 AM
Quote from: GoCougs on July 11, 2019, 09:28:12 AM
I'm on the fence for a few reasons.

I would likely not agree to my employer making me wear a body cam, to record 100% of my workday interactions, just because, well, fuck that noise.

A body or dash cam is not 100% truth, as they do not provide exact LEO POV, which matters in stressful/threatening/etc., situations (a lot of the times a situation has to be judged on perception of the individual under scrutiny).

It's probably overall a net positive, but way far away from perfect.

Your job doesn't involve potentially shooting citizens.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: FoMoJo on July 11, 2019, 10:10:30 AM
Quote from: CaminoRacer on July 11, 2019, 10:05:46 AM
Your job doesn't involve potentially shooting citizens.
He'd be more concerned about them seeing all the time he spent watch Ayn Rand videos. ;)
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: BimmerM3 on July 11, 2019, 11:20:13 AM
Quote from: GoCougs on July 11, 2019, 09:01:26 AM
It was mos def unforeseen because that was not the justification for enacting such policies, which only confirmed that in 99%+ of LE vs. civilian contact situations, LE is right and the civilian is wrong (i.e., the plan to buckdown law enforcement failed which dismayed said policy pushers).

Whatever man. Keep making shit up to justify your belief in the librul conspiracy. :ohyeah:
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: GoCougs on July 11, 2019, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: CaminoRacer on July 11, 2019, 10:05:46 AM
Your job doesn't involve potentially shooting citizens.

Yours doesn't either.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: GoCougs on July 11, 2019, 12:54:15 PM
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 11, 2019, 11:20:13 AM
Whatever man. Keep making shit up to justify your belief in the librul conspiracy. :ohyeah:

Even after all this time? Really. Oh, well, no worries! Here we go again!




NYT: Body Cameras Have Little Effect on Police Behavior, Study Says (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/us/police-body-camera-study.html).

NYT summary of the largest ever body cam study. In short, citizen complaints were about the same, and police behavior was about the same, which means the body cams confirmed the general premise which has been the zeitgeist of LE since the Dawn of Man - 99%+ of the time LE is right and the citizen is wrong, and the cameras tended to show it as such more explicitly, and thus, by definition, more LEOs were exonerated and more citizens were locked up. So, in summary, the body cam thing didn't turn out as the planners planned.

Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: CaminoRacer on July 11, 2019, 03:26:41 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on July 11, 2019, 12:23:59 PM
Yours doesn't either.

Correct, and a body cam would be a waste of money because I'm not gonna end up in court for shooting someone on the job.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: GoCougs on July 11, 2019, 04:35:11 PM
Quote from: CaminoRacer on July 11, 2019, 03:26:41 PM
Correct, and a body cam would be a waste of money because I'm not gonna end up in court for shooting someone on the job.

We actually have cams in the parking lot and the robot lab, as we're a gray (sorta secret) site, and even bio (retina) scanners on some doors. I ain't even afraid though.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: BimmerM3 on July 12, 2019, 10:25:56 AM
Quote from: GoCougs on July 11, 2019, 12:54:15 PM
Even after all this time? Really. Oh, well, no worries! Here we go again!




NYT: Body Cameras Have Little Effect on Police Behavior, Study Says (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/us/police-body-camera-study.html).

NYT summary of the largest ever body cam study. In short, citizen complaints were about the same, and police behavior was about the same, which means the body cams confirmed the general premise which has been the zeitgeist of LE since the Dawn of Man - 99%+ of the time LE is right and the citizen is wrong, and the cameras tended to show it as such more explicitly, and thus, by definition, more LEOs were exonerated and more citizens were locked up. So, in summary, the body cam thing didn't turn out as the planners planned.



lol I'm doubting your commentary, not the actual stats. But again, whatever. I know you're not about to change your mind.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: GoCougs on July 12, 2019, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 12, 2019, 10:25:56 AM
lol I'm doubting your commentary, not the actual stats. But again, whatever. I know you're not about to change your mind.

Nah, you went for a W without checking facts.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: BimmerM3 on July 12, 2019, 04:27:37 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on July 12, 2019, 04:15:07 PM
Nah, you went for a W without checking facts.

Bruh, it took me all of 30 seconds to find an article in the NYT from 2013 stating:

"Cameras are extremely useful in gathering and maintaining a record of evidence, providing a fuller picture of an interaction than a written report or even a patrol car's "dashcam" ever could. For this reason, they're also very good at protecting police from false accusations of misconduct."

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/10/22/should-police-wear-cameras/body-cameras-could-restore-trust-in-police

Sounds pretty foreseen to me, but sure, I'm the one who doesn't check facts. :ohyeah:
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: 93JC on July 12, 2019, 07:19:23 PM
I see this thread on the homepage, "Trooper blows stop...", and I keep thinking it's about Isuzus. And it's not, unfortunately.  :(
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: GoCougs on July 12, 2019, 11:03:44 PM
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 12, 2019, 04:27:37 PM
Bruh, it took me all of 30 seconds to find an article in the NYT from 2013 stating:

"Cameras are extremely useful in gathering and maintaining a record of evidence, providing a fuller picture of an interaction than a written report or even a patrol car's "dashcam" ever could. For this reason, they're also very good at protecting police from false accusations of misconduct."

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/10/22/should-police-wear-cameras/body-cameras-could-restore-trust-in-police

Sounds pretty foreseen to me, but sure, I'm the one who doesn't check facts. :ohyeah:

You're just making it worse.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: BimmerM3 on July 12, 2019, 11:16:41 PM
Quote from: 93JC on July 12, 2019, 07:19:23 PM
I see this thread on the homepage, "Trooper blows stop...", and I keep thinking it's about Isuzus. And it's not, unfortunately.  :(

Just for you. :wub:

(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/5ca79d4f5f6a3_isuzu_trooper_1553709826fcd2082019077-101-940x594.jpg)
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: 93JC on July 13, 2019, 09:16:00 AM
 :wub:
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: CaminoRacer on July 13, 2019, 09:45:58 AM
Ooh that's very nice
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: Soup DeVille on July 13, 2019, 12:05:05 PM
That one was for sale not too long ago.
Title: Re: Trooper blows stop sign hits another car, arrests driver, then coverup ensues
Post by: Lebowski on August 24, 2019, 05:34:30 AM
The red car is obviously speeding I don't see how that can even be a question. It's a residential neighborhood.

That said cop is clearly in the wrong and IMO should be fired.