Motor Trend has a great three-way comparo to rank the three sub-$100,000 supercars being sold in the United States. Dragstrip and Track figures erase all doubt about who's king of the sub-$100,000 supercars. Even the CTS-V, any version of the Challenger, and the 330 HP Cayman R didn't have the cred to be included in this comparo, and production Boss 302s & Boss 302 Laguna Secas were not on sale by the test date. The already awesome GT-R gets even more awesome in the 2012 edition, and shows why AWD is worth what it costs to get it. Big-bucks brakes also show their worth, if you're considering a purchase where optional brake upgrades are offered. This very down-to-Earth article tells what works and why, and with Randy Pobst doing the track work you know that his comments can be taken to the bank without lingering concerns about driver ability!
Here's the link: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1104_2011_chevrolet_corvette_2011_ford_shelby_gt500_2012_nissan_gtr_comparison/index.html
Disclaimer: I didn't actually read the article.
IMO, "Supercar" means a whole lot more than 0-60 and lap times. I suppose the GT-R and Z06 are debatable (I personally wouldn't call them supercars), but there's no chance the GT500 is.
ZO6 for me please.
The Z06 and the GT-R posted as close as the same exact lap time and yet in the writing it kind of made it seem like the GT-R destroyed everyone. It would be my pick but I hate how some of these magazine articles just sing heaps of praise on the number 1 car when its really a wash performance wise.
And yes, these aren't "supercars", imo. And the GT500 really has no place in this comparison.
Why is the GT500 even in this comparo? And when did the Z06 get so fucking expensive?
The base Z06 is still ~75k
This one was outfitted to be pretty much a ZR1 only with the 7L which is why its so damn expensive.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 15, 2011, 10:52:41 AM
Why is the GT500 even in this comparo? And when did the Z06 get so fucking expensive?
This Z06 is the Z07 package with comes with pretty much everything the ZR1 does except the ZR1 engine. Really it was the ultimate track Vette that Vette fans were asking for, all the fancy magnetic shocks, fancy PS2 ZP tires, and the carbon brakes in a less nose heavy car. Truthfully the vette's hardware is really impressive stuff that actually works. As the comparo noted, the vette has higher lateral G measures, much better brakes, and it's got a better power to weight ratio than the GT-R. The GT-R however, still puts it all together much better than the vette.
Still it shows that GM slapping alot of high grade hardware onto the aging C5/C6 chassis allows the vette to keep pace with the best in the world. Hopefully GM can take these world class components and apply it to a modern chassis in the C7 vette.
Yeah the ZO6 had Z07 pack, carbon pack, 3LT dash, and nav. I'll take it with just the Z07 and Carbon pack thanks bai.
Quote from: 565 on February 15, 2011, 11:08:45 AM
Still it shows that GM slapping alot of high grade hardware onto the aging C5/C6 chassis allows the vette to keep pace with the best in the world. Hopefully GM can take these world class components and apply it to a modern chassis in the C7 vette.
That's gonna cost big $$$$. Vettes are getting pricey as is...
I really would love for them to shrink it down a bit, and maybe employ some more conventional chassis design elements. Motors are fine. A sub 3,000 lb C7 would be incredible, and with the Cayman & Evora there I think it's doable for GM, even with the truck engines.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 15, 2011, 10:35:27 AM
Disclaimer: I didn't actually read the article.
IMO, "Supercar" means a whole lot more than 0-60 and lap times. I suppose the GT-R and Z06 are debatable (I personally wouldn't call them supercars), but there's no chance the GT500 is.
BimmerM3: Totally correct: a "supercar" was defined in Y2K as a vehicle that:
1. is a production vehicle (not some one-off built from new & maybe some used parts)
2. can sustain over 200 MPH
3. can turn the quarter-mile in less than 13 seconds on OEM street-legal tires
No G capabilities were in that decade-old definition unless the FIA or somebody has subsequently added some qualifying G capability that must be maintained as well--check around if you're interested.
So these are not "supercars" by the current definition, but they may be the three fastest production vehicles* sold in the US that are currently for sale at under $100,000 as equipped in this comparo.
*There are plenty of kit cars that can kick the asses of all three of these, but the kits get to avoid a lot of regulatory requirements that production cars can't.
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Yes, it is difficult to justify the GT500's inclusion in this comparo. It is not the same type of vehicle as the other two, but OTOH it probably did much better than any other $55,330 production car that is currently for sale in the US--MT clearly expected the GT500 to perform better than all those vehicles they did NOT include in this comparo and offhand I cannot think of another production vehicle that would best the GT500 in this comparo, either, unless there is a current model of Viper for sale in the US for under $100,000--remember that there are both strip and track parameters being evaluated here (as there is in the definition of undisputed "supercars" given above).
There may be those that will argue that spending an extra $35,620 on the GT500 to bring it up to the cost of a GT-R would hugely increase the GT500's performance at the strip and track. Yeah, so? What you can build with a bottomless credit card at the speed shop ain't what's under discussion here, huh? I will concede that if you strip off $35,620 worth of parts from the GT-R it probably can't roll under its own power, especially if you start by removing the wheels & tires...Ditto for removing $42,680 worth of parts from the 'Vette. But that's BlowCougs reasoning and not even idiots go there...
The results show that the GT-R's technology gives it a clear performance edge over the other two (and over many six-figure performance vehicles, too...). And the GT-R does all this on 232 cubic inches (almost 100 cubes smaller than the GT500's engine and almost 200 cubes smaller than the 'Vette's engine) yet it is the heaviest car in the comparo.
There was an omission I overlooked! There is a 624 HP GT350 in production that shoulda been in the comparo, too! At a planned production of only 500 units this year, the GT350 is certainly "limited production" but "production" > "limited". It woulda been excellent to have the supercharged TiVCT 5.0 up against the other three! Maybe the GT350 was excluded because it is a true tuner car--the GT350s are shipped to Shelby with standard Mustang GT 5.0 engines whereas the GT500 is shipped to Shelby with the supercharged engine fully assembled already.
The Boss 302 & Boss 302 Laguna Seca will havta wait their time, which will be very soon--probably the headliners in the next issues of many auto mags. It won't be same day/same driver good, but it'll be plenty good nevertheless! I hope some mag will get Pobst to do the jockeying!
Quote from: sportyaccordy on February 15, 2011, 11:26:18 AM
That's gonna cost big $$$$. Vettes are getting pricey as is...
I really would love for them to shrink it down a bit, and maybe employ some more conventional chassis design elements. Motors are fine. A sub 3,000 lb C7 would be incredible, and with the Cayman & Evora there I think it's doable for GM, even with the truck engines.
sportyaccordy: Yeah, GM shoulda kept the Solstice assembly line and built Corvettes on an upgraded Solstice chassis. Failure to do that will rank right up there with choosing not to sign The Beatles to a recording contract, as some dickbrain at one of the big record companies did back in the early 'Sixties.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on February 15, 2011, 11:26:18 AM
That's gonna cost big $$$$. Vettes are getting pricey as is...
I really would love for them to shrink it down a bit, and maybe employ some more conventional chassis design elements. Motors are fine. A sub 3,000 lb C7 would be incredible, and with the Cayman & Evora there I think it's doable for GM, even with the truck engines.
"The truck engines"? Excuse me?
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 15, 2011, 10:35:27 AM
Disclaimer: I didn't actually read the article.
IMO, "Supercar" means a whole lot more than 0-60 and lap times. I suppose the GT-R and Z06 are debatable (I personally wouldn't call them supercars), but there's no chance the GT500 is.
The Z06 is in no way a supercar for the same reason a GT500 or 911 GT3RS is not; it's based on a lesser model. The GT-R isn't a supercar in my eyes either, but I know that's up for debate.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on February 15, 2011, 11:26:18 AM
That's gonna cost big $$$$. Vettes are getting pricey as is...
I really would love for them to shrink it down a bit, and maybe employ some more conventional chassis design elements. Motors are fine. A sub 3,000 lb C7 would be incredible, and with the Cayman & Evora there I think it's doable for GM, even with the truck engines.
How much smaller do you want them to make it? It's already shorter than a 911. No one complains about 4,000lb Ferraris.
The C7 is going to be smaller, that way they can use the same engines but increase performance with a smaller and lighter car.
Quote from: Raza on February 15, 2011, 01:46:22 PM
How much smaller do you want them to make it? It's already shorter than a 911. No one complains about 4,000lb Ferraris.
Yeah - the C6 is also smaller (shorter) than a Civic and but 2" longer than a Cayman...
Quote from: GoCougs on February 15, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
Yeah - the C6 is also smaller (shorter) than a Civic and but 2" longer than a Cayman...
Wow, really? The C6's design makes it look much larger. And historically, the Corvette has been quite large, so I can see how the perception of size remains.
Quote from: Raza on February 15, 2011, 02:22:28 PM
Wow, really? The C6's design makes it look much larger. And historically, the Corvette has been quite large, so I can see how the perception of size remains.
Something about the proportions make it look larger than it is. I first realized just how small the C5 (and later) Vettes were when I happened to see one parked next to an economy car at a parking lot in college. Other than its width, it was smaller than a compact and way smaller than anything midsize.
The Vette got whooped by the GT-R on the way to 60 mph, but if anyone noticed, the Vette gained ground rapidly on the way to 100. Also, it was less than a quarter of a second slower around the track than the GT-R without computer-aided awesomeness. Moral of the story: Look for the C7 to play hardball if GM put enough money into the program. Also, look for it to be much more expensive because the Vette just isn't selling like it used to.
Quote from: Raza on February 15, 2011, 01:46:22 PM
How much smaller do you want them to make it? It's already shorter than a 911. No one complains about 4,000lb Ferraris.
Plenty of people complain about 4,000 lb Ferraris. Just not the people who have driven them.
Quote from: the Teuton on February 15, 2011, 05:05:39 PM
The Vette got whooped by the GT-R on the way to 60 mph, but if anyone noticed, the Vette gained ground rapidly on the way to 100. Also, it was less than a quarter of a second slower around the track than the GT-R without computer-aided awesomeness. Moral of the story: Look for the C7 to play hardball if GM put enough money into the program. Also, look for it to be much more expensive because the Vette just isn't selling like it used to.
Does the Z07 package include the ZR1's stability management system? I read one review of the ZR-1 where a professional driver found they could lap faster with the computer controls set to race mode than they could with all of the driver aids shut off completely.
Quote from: the Teuton on February 15, 2011, 05:05:39 PM
Also, look for it to be much more expensive because the Vette just isn't selling like it used to.
That's because the build quality is so good everybody thinks they are getting into a brand new Corvette everyday.
Quote from: MX793 on February 15, 2011, 05:08:35 PM
Does the Z07 package include the ZR1's stability management system? I read one review of the ZR-1 where a professional driver found they could lap faster with the computer controls set to race mode than they could with all of the driver aids shut off completely.
It's basically everything but the engine, which explains the less than $10,000 price gap between that Z06 and the ZR1.
Quote from: 68_427 on February 15, 2011, 05:13:39 PM
That's because the build quality is so good everybody thinks they are getting into a brand new Corvette everyday.
You wonder how Honda sells a single car each year. :nutty:
Yeah a car's proportions really can hide how long or wide it is.
Here's a fun game, without looking up the numbers, can you guess which generation corvette is the longest? Don't base it off the provided pictures, base it off your own experience seeing these cars on the street (except for maybe the C1s since they are rare).
(http://www.corvetteblogger.com/images/content/101006_1.jpg)
(http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/1967_Chevrolet_Corvette_Coupe_Grand_Sport_Front_1.jpg)
(http://www.tomhenryracing.com/toys/images/lt1/555.48.jpg)
(http://www.streetdreamscorvetteclub.com/C4.jpg)
(http://image.gmhightechperformance.com/f/18224061/0905gmhtp_05_z+red_c5_corvette_convertible+front_view.jpg)
(http://www.fastcoolcars.com/images/wallpaper6/redc63.jpg)
Interestingly most of the Corvette's have been very close in terms of length, ranging from about 175in to 179in, with the exception of 1 generation that was much longer.
Quote from: the Teuton on February 15, 2011, 05:22:22 PM
You wonder how Honda sells a single car each year. :nutty:
Beats me! :lol:
Well my dad's '68 Corvette is actually very long...
Quote from: 565 on February 15, 2011, 05:30:17 PM
Yeah a car's proportions really can hide how long or wide it is.
Here's a fun game, without looking up the numbers, can you guess which generation corvette is the longest? Don't base it off the provided pictures, base it off your own experience seeing these cars on the street (except for maybe the C1s since they are rare).
Interestingly most of the Corvette's have been very close in terms of length, ranging from about 175in to 179in, with the exception of 1 generation that was much longer.
The Corvette C3 was a real pig. With the exception of the first 4 years it was barely a sports car. I remember seeing a number of mid '70s Vettes on the road and they looked awful; especially with the muffler fully exposed at the back; like so much dirty underwear. But then, the '70s was a bad decade for all cars. I've also seen a lot of C1s on the road way back when. For awhile, they were my favourite car, especially the '58 through '62s.
Quote from: Raza on February 15, 2011, 01:46:22 PM
How much smaller do you want them to make it? It's already shorter than a 911. No one complains about 4,000lb Ferraris.
+1 Everyone seems to think every sports car should be the same size as a Miata or Cayman. Like the guys stated earlier the Vette is small enough as it is. :banghead:
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on February 15, 2011, 07:05:52 PM
+1 Everyone seems to think every sports car should be the same size as a Miata or Cayman. Like the guys stated earlier the Vette is small enough as it is. :banghead:
The Cayman is only 2" shorter than the Vette. But it is 4" narrower.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 15, 2011, 09:21:16 PM
The Cayman is only 2" shorter than the Vette. But it is 4" narrower.
OK! Basically a wash but all the "small car" fans swear the Vette is an oversized pig!
Quote from: GoCougs on February 15, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
Yeah - the C6 is also smaller (shorter) than a Civic and but 2" longer than a Cayman...
Egads! Suddenly a Corvette just became even more desirable.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 15, 2011, 05:06:53 PM
Plenty of people complain about 4,000 lb Ferraris. Just not the people who have driven them.
:lol: :lol: :lol:+100!!!
OmiDude: When were you a guitar jock in the Little River Band? I was Wikipediaing the Little River Band awhile back and found that every male Aussie under the age of 45 had compulsory service in the great Little River Band. We sometimes have something like that in the US, too--it goes by the sobriquet "Selective Service", but it has never caught on like the Little River Band although millions have been brought aboard it, too. Every time I listen to "Lady" I stand in awe of just how stunning a song can be created from such an eclectic blend of melodies! Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody", for instance, is an eclectic blend of alleged melodies, but it is as mellifluous as two horny tomcats in a 'tater sack. "Lady" is always splendid no matter who's in the LRB!
I assume you served honorably throughout...
Um.
Yes.
......no?
My how times........um....haven't changed.
Saw a guest browsing this in the user list, figured the fanboys would like it.
Except the price of the GT-R. :mask:
It's the base gtr I thought.
Those are $100k now, but of course no serious buyer wants anything short of the Nismo at $150k.
The more things change....
Ah, yes, Nethed our resident psychopath. Those were the days!
Note the Z06 had a higher 1/4-mile trap speed, closed the gap as speeds increased, was but 0.2 sec slower on the track, and of course it looked and sounded 10x better. It also had ~$10k of fluff options. I wasn't a huge fan as it was fairly cheaply built and was rumored to be crazy at more than about 7/10ths but it has absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 11, 2015, 08:57:35 PM
The more things change....
You're right! The Z06 can still be purchased for under 6 figures..... ;)
Funny how a 500hp Vette traps about the same as a "650" HP vette
Quote from: r0tor on February 12, 2015, 06:05:49 AM
Funny how a 500hp Vette traps about the same as a "650" HP vette
That's progress for you.
Quote from: r0tor on February 12, 2015, 06:05:49 AM
Funny how a 500hp Vette traps about the same as a "650" HP vette
Depends which run u look at. 1st run might trap like a 650HP car
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 12, 2015, 08:30:20 AM
Depends which run u look at. 1st run might trap like a 650HP car
Motortrends fastest was 124ish -shrug-