Fuck the EU. Fuck them so hard with this UNREALISTIC bullshit. :lockedup:
EU to tighten Euro 7 emissions standard for all tests
In order to comply with the goals of the Paris Climate Protection Agreement, the EU wants to tighten the CO2 limits as part of the upcoming Euro 7 emissions standard.
A study by the EU Commission is supposed to form the basis for the new exhaust emission limits. The VDA (German Association of the Automotive Industry) is already warning that the move would result in the combustion engine being phased out from 2025.
"With the introduction of the planned EU-7 standard, the EU Commission will de facto ban cars with combustion engines from 2025," said Hildegard Müller, President of the VDA. She fears that if the exhaust emission limits are too strict, combustion engines will no longer be competitive.
The German newspaper Bild reported on a study commissioned by the EU Commission. The study is to form the basis for which limits are to be deduced for the new Euro 7 standard. Apparently, the authors of the study came to the conclusion that significantly stricter exhaust emission regulations than those in the currently valid Euro 6 standard were necessary to achieve climate targets. As yet, nothing has yet been decided.
Nevertheless, the German industry association VDA is sounding the alarm – not just about the limit values themselves, but also about the way in which they are tested. The study says that limit values should not only be maintained on average throughout the test but also in the peaks. "The Commission wants to stipulate that in the future a vehicle must remain virtually emission-free in every driving situation – be it with a trailer on a mountain or in slow city traffic," says Müller. "That is technically impossible and everyone knows that."
The VDA fears that the combustion engine could be shut down by means of such a regulation, even if the vehicles themselves comply with the limit values in the WLTP test. For the VDA president, a short-term switch to battery-electric mobility is not a solution. Müller repeated her criticism of the lack of charging infrastructure and called for investment in e-fuels and the fuel cell instead of bans, insisting that "The problem is not the combustion engine, but the fuel."
While there is no public reaction from the German government regarding the study on exhaust emission limits, Bild reported that Federal Minister of Economics Peter Altmaier is said to have spoken out in favour of extending the electric car purchase subsidy, the Innovation Premium from what is currently 2021, another four years until 2025. "I would like the hundreds of thousands of employees in the automotive industry to still have good jobs in 10 or 15 years' time," Altmaier said. "The innovation premium makes an important contribution to this." Certainly, since the introduction of the top-up to the existing environmental bonus was introduced, electric car sales in Germany have soared.
Link: https://www.electrive.com/2020/11/16/vda-worried-about-the-euro-7-emissions-standard/
And yet the UK, which has just been "freed" from the EU, is actually taking a tougher stance.
Look at it this way, you are furious that they are taking to tough a stance on emissions, and on the other side of the Spektrum countries like the Netherlands, and Denmark are furious that the EU is forbidding them from implementing bans on combustion engines that those countries wanted to undertake.
Usually, if people on both sides of the Spektrum are raging, it usually is balanced.
Quote from: Galaxy on November 18, 2020, 06:57:30 AM
And yet the UK, which has just been "freed" from the EU, is actually taking a tougher stance.
Look at it this way, you are furious that they are taking to tough a stance on emissions, and on the other side of the Spektrum countries like the Netherlands, and Denmark are furious that the EU is forbidding them from implementing bans on combustion engines that those countries wanted to undertake.
Usually, if people on both sides of the Spektrum are raging, it usually is balanced.
If this EU-7 crap gets pushed through, then soon there will be movements to ban EU-4/EU-5 and EU-6 cars from the road. How are people going to be productive and work if they have no car? Not everyone can afford an EV, much less wants one.
And remember, it was the EU in the first place who encouraged people to buy Diesels due to their lower CO2 emissions. I bet in the near future they'll find a way to ban EVs to...
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 18, 2020, 07:00:50 AM
If this EU-7 crap gets pushed through, then soon there will be movements to ban EU-4/EU-5 and EU-6 cars from the road. How are people going to be productive and work if they have no car? Not everyone can afford an EV, much less wants one.
And remember, it was the EU in the first place who encouraged people to buy Diesels due to their lower CO2 emissions. I bet in the near future they'll find a way to ban EVs to...
People can go back to riding bicycles and/or horses. Easy peasy!
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 18, 2020, 07:00:50 AM
If this EU-7 crap gets pushed through, then soon there will be movements to ban EU-4/EU-5 and EU-6 cars from the road. How are people going to be productive and work if they have no car? Not everyone can afford an EV, much less wants one.
And remember, it was the EU in the first place who encouraged people to buy Diesels due to their lower CO2 emissions. I bet in the near future they'll find a way to ban EVs to...
Are older cars made to EU 1 or 2 standards, or those built before any emissions standards, banned in Europe? Has there been any activity to even try to ban these?
Wimmer, soon internal combustion will be banned, the US and Europe will achieve their glorious 5 or 10% reduction in CO2 emissions, and China/Asia will continue to spew millions tons of it daily making cheap crap to sell at discount stores and online.
This is the new world. Get used to it. :facepalm:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 18, 2020, 07:00:50 AM
And remember, it was the EU in the first place who encouraged people to buy Diesels due to their lower CO2 emissions. I bet in the near future they'll find a way to ban EVs to...
Europe, not just the EU, has always been schizophrenic regarding diesels. In German it has been the case since at least the early 90s, that diesel fuel itself is taxed lower however the cars themselves are taxed higher. That never made sense to me.
Regarding diesels, it is the auto industry itself that destroyed them. The current crop of diesels are remarkably clean, and you can literally claim that they clean the air in inner cities, at least with regard to certain pollutants. Nothing fundamentally has changed with the technology so why did they not implement this 10 years ago. I think it is clear that all the companies, VW, Mercedes, Fiat etc. they all knew that there cars were exceeding legal limits by several 1000% in real life driving. It is the auto industry, not Brussels, that destroyed the diesel. In Germany the car industry has always gotten a pass, not just from politicians, but also from the population, since the car industry is so important, not just from an industrial point of view, but also a cultural one. However I get the feeling that with the VW scandal something has changed, the population in large is fed up with them.
Quote from: MX793 on November 18, 2020, 07:13:34 AM
Are older cars made to EU 1 or 2 standards, or those built before any emissions standards, banned in Europe? Has there been any activity to even try to ban these?
For Germany, In certain city centres, often times only a few select streets, you can only enter with a green sticker. However this is primarily targeted towards older diesels. Even late 80s gasoline cars get a green sticker, and anything older is exempt because of historic laws. If pollutants exceed a certain limit then you made have temporary restrictions. All larger cities are requires to have live measuring of certain pollutants, in some cities literally on every street in city centers.
Quote from: shp4man on November 18, 2020, 07:49:37 AM
Wimmer, soon internal combustion will be banned, the US and Europe will achieve their glorious 5 or 10% reduction in CO2 emissions, and China/Asia will continue to spew millions tons of it daily making cheap crap to sell at discount stores and online.
This is the new world. Get used to it. :facepalm:
From what I saw in SE Asia a year ago, this is entirely correct.
Re the UK, Quentin Wilson's tweet:
"So, just 9 years to build range of affordable EVs that do 450 miles on one charge and cost around £15k plus roll out national charging infrastructure so most people are only 5 miles from a 50kw charger. Better get cracking then..."
Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54981425 (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54981425)
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 18, 2020, 07:12:18 AM
People can go back to riding bicycles and/or horses. Easy peasy!
That's literally what the assholes of Germany, the Green Party, has planned for us. Car-free cities and everyone, old and young on bicycles in all kinds of weather...
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 18, 2020, 08:14:26 AM
That's literally what the assholes of Germany, the Green Party, has planned for us. Car-free cities and everyone, old and young on bicycles in all kinds of weather...
Just think about how fit everyone will be. It will be great!
Quote from: MX793 on November 18, 2020, 07:13:34 AM
Are older cars made to EU 1 or 2 standards, or those built before any emissions standards, banned in Europe? Has there been any activity to even try to ban these?
Certain cities are trying to get older EU1-EU3 (possibly even EU4/EU5) cars banned, primarily older gasoline and diesel models (and some relatively modern EU4/EU5 diesels). Stuttgart comes to mind for example.
Quote from: shp4man on November 18, 2020, 07:49:37 AM
Wimmer, soon internal combustion will be banned, the US and Europe will achieve their glorious 5 or 10% reduction in CO2 emissions, and China/Asia will continue to spew millions tons of it daily making cheap crap to sell at discount stores and online.
This is the new world. Get used to it. :facepalm:
Yep, that's the way it will go.
THE GREAT RESET... :frown:
I wonder if China will even honor the Paris Climate Accords. They might just quit a few years before they're supposed to reduce their CO2 emissions.
Also, South America, Africa and large parts of Asia will continue to use ICE cars, cheap oil and churn out even more babies, thus nullifying any efforts which the Western World makes in CO2 and resource-usage reduction.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 18, 2020, 08:15:23 AM
Just think about how fit everyone will be. It will be great!
I use my bicycle to get around town a lot. Most of my smaller shopping errands and errands in general are done with my bicycle.
But it's not an option in the rain or in the winter when it's cold and slippery.
Quote from: Galaxy on November 18, 2020, 07:56:59 AM
Regarding diesels, it is the auto industry itself that destroyed them. The current crop of diesels are remarkably clean, and you can literally claim that they clean the air in inner cities, at least with regard to certain pollutants. Nothing fundamentally has changed with the technology so why did they not implement this 10 years ago. I think it is clear that all the companies, VW, Mercedes, Fiat etc. they all knew that there cars were exceeding legal limits by several 1000% in real life driving. It is the auto industry, not Brussels, that destroyed the diesel. In Germany the car industry has always gotten a pass, not just from politicians, but also from the population, since the car industry is so important, not just from an industrial point of view, but also a cultural one. However I get the feeling that with the VW scandal something has changed, the population in large is fed up with them.
Before I blame the car industry, I will blame the politicians who came up with unrealistic emission standards. I mean, it is only logical that no car is going to be within the legal limits under certain driving conditions. People were acting as if cars would emit the exact amount of gases and consume the exact amount of fuel which was listed in the brochure.
Regarding Volkswagen, I feel that this whole climate hysteria can be squarely blamed on them. Without the scandal, this hysteria and anti-car attitude wouldn't be as strong as it is today. Also, Volkswagen is really getting on my nerves with their bickering in Brussels to tax ICE cars and fuel even more - so that their EV strategy will succeed. This enrages me.
All forms of mobility in Europe are so expensive. We're supposed to take the train or ÖPNV everywhere? Why? That shit is unreliable, slow, uncomfortable, unsafe and OVERPRICED.
If the EU wants to subsidize it, I'll take one of these...
https://www.totemautomobili.com/
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 18, 2020, 08:24:28 AM
Before I blame the car industry, I will blame the politicians who came up with unrealistic emission standards. I mean, it is only logical that no car is going to be within the legal limits under certain driving conditions. People were acting as if cars would emit the exact amount of gases and consume the exact amount of fuel which was listed in the brochure.
Except a lot of these cars aren't exceeding limits under extreme or abnormal circumstances like towing a heavy load or being used on a racetrack. They exceed limits in normal commuting.
QuoteRegarding Volkswagen, I feel that this whole climate hysteria can be squarely blamed on them. Without the scandal, this hysteria and anti-car attitude wouldn't be as strong as it is today. Also, Volkswagen is really getting on my nerves with their bickering in Brussels to tax ICE cars and fuel even more - so that their EV strategy will succeed. This enrages me.
Climate concerns pre-date VW. Dieselgate simply ruined the industry's public image and turned many typical buyers against the industry. Similar to how the Oldsmobile diesel SNAFU in the US soured many Americans on diesel. Or how poor quality of American vehicles in the 70s and 80s turned many Americans away from American cars for decades. Stigmas are easily earned and hard to shake.
This is the recently expanded fluorspar mine in otherwise pristine Newfoundland, supplying rare-earths for the batteries of those environmentally friendly electric cars...
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 18, 2020, 08:18:43 AM
I use my bicycle to get around town a lot. Most of my smaller shopping errands and errands in general are done with my bicycle.
But it's not an option in the rain or in the winter when it's cold and slippery.
You just need to get snow tires for your bicycle. You'll be fine!
Quote from: Rockraven on November 18, 2020, 09:52:16 AM
This is the recently expanded fluorspar mine in otherwise pristine Newfoundland, supplying rare-earths for the batteries of those environmentally friendly electric cars...
Starting to look like the oil sands in Alberta. When we can use a lump of coal as nuclear fuel, then there may be some hope for a cleaner environment.
Canada: a progressive paradise funded by natural resource extraction
Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 18, 2020, 11:05:41 AM
Canada: a progressive paradise funded by natural resource extraction
True, Canada has largely depended on natural resources for economic viability. Only a couple of provinces are heavily into manufacturing.
I think China, if anything, has accelerated the requirement for automotive manufacturers to invest in EV vehicles. They are the largest market for them. India will soon, I predict, follow suit within the next decade as the air in many of the large cities especially in the winter months is toxic. When you have to close schools in the capital city for several days because the air is too toxic to breathe, as they had to do last year, changes in emissions standards will be coming.
Quote from: veeman on November 18, 2020, 02:39:37 PM
I think China, if anything, has accelerated the requirement for automotive manufacturers to invest in EV vehicles. They are the largest market for them. India will soon, I predict, follow suit within the next decade as the air in many of the large cities especially in the winter months is toxic. When you have to close schools in the capital city for several days because the air is too toxic to breathe, as they had to do last year, changes in emissions standards will be coming.
I don't disagree, but I thought India's AQ problems had more to do with farmers burning their fields. Which in itself was an adaptation to a shortened growing season due to massively depleted aquifers.
Quote from: Laconian on November 18, 2020, 02:55:39 PM
I don't disagree, but I thought India's AQ problems had more to do with farmers burning their fields. Which in itself was an adaptation to a shortened growing season due to massively depleted aquifers.
Farmers burning fields would be seasonal, I would think. It all contributes, but streets packed with vehicles lacking anti-pollution devices such as scooters, 2 cycle bikes, auto rickshaws and most cars, trucks and buses for practically 24 hours a day every day of the year contribute more I would think. As well, they seem to pack 7 lanes of vehicles onto 3 lane streets. Cities like Delhi are non-stop traffic jams. EVs would make a big difference, but the main problem is the limited power supply can barely keep up with the demands of the city, let alone extra to recharge millions of vehicles.
Yeah India's toxic air is due to a bunch of things but dirty vehicles are a big part of it. Even when the Covid-19 pandemic ends, you'll still need to wear an N95 mask over there. I had to when I last visited a few years ago when I was sitting in the car in New Delhi.
I wonder if ebikes/electric scooters are the trick for India. If the streets can't handle the physical footprint of cars, then they're an absolute non-starter.
EVs will kill millions. No global warming = colder winders = people huddled indoors = death from Rona.
But if we don't have EVs = global warming = death from floods, droughts, heat, pollution.
The choice is between death or death.
I would prefer cake over death.
Quote from: MX793 on November 18, 2020, 08:53:16 AMClimate concerns pre-date VW. Dieselgate simply ruined the industry's public image and turned many typical buyers against the industry. Similar to how the Oldsmobile diesel SNAFU in the US soured many Americans on diesel. Or how poor quality of American vehicles in the 70s and 80s turned many Americans away from American cars for decades. Stigmas are easily earned and hard to shake.
I just find it bizarre how there are people out there who hate cars in general. Cars are awesome and symbolize the freedom to go anywhere when you want.
The future scares me, especially the perverted fantasies of some eco-clowns who want a whole building block to essentially share a handful of cars. Totally inefficient and idiotic.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 18, 2020, 10:25:31 AM
You just need to get snow tires for your bicycle. You'll be fine!
:lol:
I wonder if winter tires for bicycles even exist...
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 19, 2020, 07:35:15 AM
I wonder if winter tires for bicycles even exist....
They do.