Chrysler May Be On The Chopping Block Following FCA And PSA Merger
Shareholders approved the merger between Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and Groupe PSA yesterday, and everything is set to be wrapped up on January 16th.
Once that occurs, Stellantis will become one of the largest automakers in the world as they'll have 14 brands which range from mainstream to luxury and performance.
However, not all brands are created equal and there's speculation that cuts are on the horizon. While nothing is official, the Associated Press says Chrysler could be on the chopping block.
That remains to be seen, but Chrysler is a shell of its former self as the company only sells the Pacifica, Voyager and 300. Even before the merger, officials had suggested the 300 was living on borrowed time. Furthermore, the Pacifica and Voyager are essentially the same thing and could easily be rebranded as the Dodge Caravan and Grand Caravan.
It's also worth noting Chrysler sales have fallen significantly as models such as the 200 were cut. While the brand sold 324,846 vehicles in the United States as recently as 2015, that number fell to 126,971 units in 2019.
While killing Chrysler would be unfortunate but understandable, Stellantis will likely tackle European issues first. This shouldn't be surprising as that's where FCA and PSA vehicles overlap the most and where the Fiat has been losing money.
As a refresher, Stellantis will have eight European-focused brands including Abarth, Fiat, Lancia, Citroën, DS, Peugeot, Opel and Vauxhall. That's a lot and Lancia is obviously the weakest link as they only sell the aging Ypsilon in Italy. However, it's one of the best-selling vehicles in the country.
While some brands might be eliminated, the biggest cuts could be jobs. A number of plants are underutilized and analysts doubt Stellantis will keep three different engineering centers – in Paris, Turin and Rodelsheim – open. Instead, consolidation will likely be the name of the game.
If there's one silver lining, the profitable Jeep and Ram brands could be largely unaffected by the merger. That's especially true in regards to their large trucks and SUVs, which primarily appeal to Americans.
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/chrysler-could-be-on-the-chopping-block-following-fca-and-psa-merger/
Bring Lancia to the USA with a special hybrid rally crossover to take on the Nissan Juke NISMO! :pee:
The world is changing fast. I guess it always does.
What about Dodge brand?
Dumb idea if it also involves bringing an unknown european brand to our shores. Just keep Chrysler and rebrand stuff
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 06, 2021, 08:07:49 AM
Dumb idea if it also involves bringing an unknown european brand to our shores. Just keep Chrysler and rebrand stuff
Wasn't Lancia selling rebaged Chrysler in Europe?
Too much to keep up with. FCA should have one global car brand, and it should just be CAR. Like the generic brand beer found in old movies; logo just black block letters on a white background
Time to rebrand them as the RAM 300, RAM Pacifica, RAM Grand Caravan...etc. :devil:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 06, 2021, 09:15:37 AM
Too much to keep up with. FCA should have one global car brand, and it should just be CAR. Like the generic brand beer found in old movies; logo just black block letters on a white background
Hertz/National/Avis can just slap a sticker that says "RENTAL" above the "CAR" badging.
This is not good value for American taxpayers. If we paid billions bailing them out so they could keep building worthless undriveable vehicles, they need to damn well carry on building worthless undriveable vehicles.
:rage:
Quote from: MX793 on January 06, 2021, 08:15:18 AM
Wasn't Lancia selling rebaged Chrysler in Europe?
Yes.
And this is why Lancia is pretty much now dead.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on January 07, 2021, 07:18:16 AM
Yes.
And this is why Lancia is pretty much now dead.
I guess American style and Italian reliability doesn't fly in Europe, either. Granted, as memory serves, the models offered weren't exactly in popular vehicle segments anyway. They were all larger vehicles.
Chrysler has been dying a slow and painful death since the '70s. They should just be put out of their misery.
Quote from: MX793 on January 07, 2021, 07:22:41 AM
I guess American style and Italian reliability doesn't fly in Europe, either. Granted, as memory serves, the models offered weren't exactly in popular vehicle segments anyway. They were all larger vehicles.
I think the Chrysler Town & Country was sold in Europe in diesel form. I think I remember seeing one or two there.
Quote from: Morris Minor on January 07, 2021, 07:33:28 AM
I think the Chrysler Town & Country was sold in Europe in diesel form. I think I remember seeing one or two there.
The Chrysler minivan was one of the rebadged models for Lancia. The 200 and 300 were the others. Midsizers aren't that popular and full-sizers are definitely not popular with European consumers.
Quote from: MX793 on January 07, 2021, 07:22:41 AM
I guess American style and Italian reliability doesn't fly in Europe, either. Granted, as memory serves, the models offered weren't exactly in popular vehicle segments anyway. They were all larger vehicles.
The main issue was that prior to this move Lancia was already on a downward spiral in Europe with very poor sales. Selling rebadged Chryslers was basically a last ditch effort to move back into relevance and attempt to survive. It didn't work.
I'd argue that the people buying Lancias wanted Italian style, not badge engineered and LARGE Chryslers. Remember, Lancia never really produced large cars (they had a few specially-made LWB limos for Italian politicians but that was it). And despite the Lancia Thema (Chrysler 300) and Lancia Voyager (Chrysler Voyager) being excellent value-for-money, it didn't work.
Chrysler 300 in V6 relatively fuel efficient form (for a large car) is a very underrated vehicle IMHO. Yeah it's too large for European streets, parking, fuel tax, engine displacement tax, etc but it is a great driver. Will be a bit sad to see it go. Maybe the last RWD based large sedan in the U.S. with a mainstreamer price.
ahh, I forgot about the Dodge Charger. I've driven that once before. Not nearly as nice. It was loud and the interior was befitting a Dodge. I remember it feeling larger (ungainly) than the 300 too but I don't remember too well. I've only driven the Charger once.
Alfa will probably be killed out of this... Sergio loved the brand but didn't live long enough to execute his plan
Merging struggling brands just creates a shit sandwich, not a sustainable company.
Quote from: r0tor on January 07, 2021, 05:18:26 PM
Alfa will probably be killed out of this... Sergio loved the brand but didn't live long enough to execute his plan
Nooooooooo
Quote from: Laconian on January 07, 2021, 06:04:32 PM
Nooooooooo
The alfa business case in the US is a strange one. The brand is definitely not seeking well, but it's 2020 sales numbers actually grew 2% over 2019 while the rest of the FCA portfolio was down 15-20%.
Slightly stranger is the Giulia and Stelvio sell on a pretty much 50:50 basis. Most other brands in the USA have more of a 25:75 ratio biased towards the crossover over the sedan.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 06, 2021, 08:07:49 AM
Dumb idea if it also involves bringing an unknown european brand to our shores. Just keep Chrysler and rebrand stuff
Keeping Chrysler's branding means keeping their baggage. When was the last time a decent car was branded as a Chrysler? The first 300?
Chrysler could go under and no one would even notice.
How to save Chrysler?
Retro design the 1972 New Yorker and bam - the brand is saved. At least in my world... :praise: :wub:
(https://s31.wheelsage.org/picture/c/chrysler/new_yorker_brougham_hardtop_sedan/chrysler_new_yorker_brougham_hardtop_sedan_23.jpeg)
Quote from: r0tor on January 07, 2021, 05:18:26 PM
Alfa will probably be killed out of this... Sergio loved the brand but didn't live long enough to execute his plan
AR is best positioned as the premium brand for Stellantis, so that is a good reason to keep them around.
A bigger problem is that the value to mid range segment is too crowded (Peugeot, Citroën, Opel, Fiat, Lancia, Dodge, Chrysler, DS).
As much as it pains me to say, axing Chrysler is probably a good idea business wise. Probably overdue. Ford is pretty much getting out of the passenger car segment in the US, and GM took the scale down in '08.
Lancia also needs to go, or stay on as a badge job in Italyor perhaps become a trim lever for nicer Fiats.
Next on the list is Opel, who has been struggling for ages. They need to either become a full electric brand, or a Germanic badge job, or mild restyling of the French platforms.
That leaves:
Premium: Alfa Romeo (DS, but that is pushing it)
Mid range: Peugeot (upper), Opel (lower), Dodge (sporty/US)
Value: Citroën (young/avant garde) Fiat (cheap)
Jeep, Ram stays positioned as niche brands.
Did I forget any?
I do agree that the 300 is an underappreciated model, even though it is ancient by now.
Good engines, RWD, comfy and a great styling that ages well. Pretty reliable too, right?
Quote from: r0tor on January 09, 2021, 08:47:04 AMSlightly stranger is the Giulia and Stelvio sell on a pretty much 50:50 basis. Most other brands in the USA have more of a 25:75 ratio biased towards the crossover over the sedan.
Probably because there is less and less competition in the performance oriented sedan segment, and because the Giulia is a damn good vehicle.
You still happy with yours?
Quote from: cawimmer430 on January 11, 2021, 06:51:37 AM
How to save Chrysler?
Retro design the 1972 New Yorker and bam - the brand is saved. At least in my world... :praise: :wub:
(https://s31.wheelsage.org/picture/c/chrysler/new_yorker_brougham_hardtop_sedan/chrysler_new_yorker_brougham_hardtop_sedan_23.jpeg)
No that ended them.
Quote from: mzziaz on January 11, 2021, 11:01:03 AM
Probably because there is less and less competition in the performance oriented sedan segment, and because the Giulia is a damn good vehicle.
You still happy with yours?
Still love it.
You missed though the clash between AR and Maserati in the lineup
Quote from: r0tor on January 11, 2021, 07:05:26 PM
Still love it.
You missed though the clash between AR and Maserati in the lineup
True, but Maserati has always been a notch or two above the premium brands, and has never been close to a volume car maker.
So, I think AR suits better as a premium brand.
Then we'll have Ferrari, which of course need to stay where they are at.
I'm glad you like it. It would also be my pick in the segment.
Quote from: mzziaz on January 12, 2021, 06:24:57 AM
True, but Maserati has always been a notch or two above the premium brands, and has never been close to a volume car maker.
And if it produced cars in volume, it'd be too sullied to sell as a boutique brand.
One interesting fact about Stellantis. Lancia, which is only sold in Italy, and only with one model, sold more cars in in 2020 then Alfa Romeo did in all of Europe...
From the Stellantis site: a couple of interesting nuggets in a flea market random assemblage of also-ran brands.
(https://i.postimg.cc/52tFyhsY/Stellantis-page.jpg)
https://www.stellantis.com/en (https://www.stellantis.com/en)
I would chop:
Abarth
Chrysler
DS Automobiles
Lancia
Opel
Peugeot
RAM
Vauxhall
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 07, 2021, 06:58:40 AM
I would chop:
Abarth
Chrysler
DS Automobiles
Lancia
Opel
Peugeot
RAM
Vauxhall
Surely not Abarth.
How did Vauxhall get in there?
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 07, 2021, 06:58:40 AM
I would chop:
Abarth
Chrysler
DS Automobiles
Lancia
Opel
Peugeot
RAM
Vauxhall
Ram? No, that's going to be one of their major money makers forever. Just unfortunate its not still Dodge Trucks.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 07, 2021, 07:17:23 AM
Ram? No, that's going to be one of their major money makers forever. Just unfortunate its not still Dodge Trucks.
Yup I'd axe the brand - not the product, which should be rolled back to Dodge.
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 07, 2021, 07:06:01 AM
Surely not Abarth.
How did Vauxhall get in there?
Abarth --> Fiat.
Vauxhall died & GM flogged it off to Peugeot, which is also on my chop list. But I know the French government would happily rape its few remaining taxpayers to keep the Peugeot corpse walking.