Audi Confirms Next-Gen RS4 Will Get A Plug-In Hybrid Powertrain
Audi Sport has yet to reveal the facelifted version of the current-gen RS4 Avant, but managing director Oliver Hoffman has no problem talking about the next generation model, which isn't due until early in the next decade.
Hoffman confirmed to Autocar that the next-gen RS4 will switch to a plug-in hybrid powertrain, as Audi Sport plans to make all its models electrified in the future.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2017/12/0474ffe5-2018-audirs4-15.jpg)
That strategy starts with the new RS6 Avant and RS7 Sportback, both of which come with a 48-volt mild-hybrid technology, a first for an Audi RS model.
Audi Sport is in the middle of expanding its range, with the facelifted current-gen RS4 and new RS Q3 set for launch before the end of the year, joining the TT RS, RS3, RS5 and the aforementioned RS6 and RS7 Sportback. There's even an RS Q8 coming out soon.
As for the current generation RS4, it is expected to retain its twin-turbo 2.9-liter V6 in the upcoming facelift. We don't know if it will get a power boost over the 444 HP (450 PS) it makes in its current form, that is already good enough for a 0-62mph (100km/h) in 4.1 seconds and a 174 mph (280 km/h) top speed.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2017/12/4396cbfb-2018-audirs4-12.jpg)
Finally, Hoffman also confirmed that the next R8 will employ an electrified powertrain, but didn't specify whether it's going to be a hybrid or a full-electric. According to the publication, the latter is the most probable option, as Audi allegedly favors the idea of an all-electric R8 to join the E-Tron GT in their range.
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/09/audi-confirms-next-gen-rs4-will-get-a-plug-in-hybrid-powertrain/
Aaaannnndddddd........cars are dead.
Have been for a while, if I'm honest.
Quote from: Raza on September 18, 2019, 09:14:36 PM
Aaaannnndddddd........cars are dead.
Have been for a while, if I'm honest.
Hey Raza,
How are you going to get around once we're all forced to drive EVs and driving a car with an internal combustion engine is punishable by death? :lol:
Quote from: Raza on September 18, 2019, 09:14:36 PM
Aaaannnndddddd........cars are dead.
Have been for a while, if I'm honest.
Wow, complaining that everything used to be better... so edgy and original
What is so bad about this becoming a hybrid?
My only complaint with this is that they didn't take the opportunity to bring back a cool NA motor. Like that old 4.2L V8
Quote from: Raza on September 18, 2019, 09:14:36 PM
Aaaannnndddddd........cars are dead.
Have been for a while, if I'm honest.
Automobiles liberated horses. Horses changed from being everyday working animals to being pets, racehorses, dressage and show horses.
Automation and electrification will do the same for cars.
Cars will become cubes with USB charging ports. They'll be like sleeper trains that get into traffic jams. People will be happier to drive more, because there will be less cost to them in terms of fuel, time, and stress. Our infrastructure is doomed! I fear for the future.
Once cars become fully autonomous they will be dead to me from an emotional POV. They will just be appliances which will bring you from A to B, then automatically find a place to charge their depleted batteries before scurrying off to find the next person who needs a ride. There is a serious move in Europe to end private car ownership as well; that's a future that I do not want to live in.
Some more thoughts.
The loss of manual transmissions does not bother me. But the lack of any engagement at all in futuristic autonomous cars is what will make the car dead to me. They won't come with a steering wheel, a gas and brake pedal and they probably won't even have A/C, window or door opening controls - you have to ask the car to do turn on the A/C, open a window or open the door. It's this loss of total control and engagement which scares me.
I swear before this happens even the most diehard manual transmission-loving petrolhead will be happy with a floaty 1970s Chrysler New Yorker - because at least that car has personality, sound and you are driving it and in control! :praise:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 19, 2019, 03:54:17 PM
Automobiles liberated horses. Horses changed from being everyday working animals to being pets, racehorses, dressage and show horses.
Automation and electrification will do the same for cars.
Electrification, no. Automation, absolutely
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 20, 2019, 05:37:00 AM
Electrification, no. Automation, absolutely
They're kind of going hand in hand, although you're right technically. I see people being much less attached to electric cars once they become common place though; and possibly if automation gets "lights out" enough, to go to a pay-per-mile or rental mode of use, rather than ownership.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 20, 2019, 04:58:28 AM
Once cars become fully autonomous they will be dead to me from an emotional POV. They will just be appliances which will bring you from A to B, then automatically find a place to charge their depleted batteries before scurrying off to find the next person who needs a ride. There is a serious move in Europe to end private car ownership as well; that's a future that I do not want to live in.
Some more thoughts.
The loss of manual transmissions does not bother me. But the lack of any engagement at all in futuristic autonomous cars is what will make the car dead to me. They won't come with a steering wheel, a gas and brake pedal and they probably won't even have A/C, window or door opening controls - you have to ask the car to do turn on the A/C, open a window or open the door. It's this loss of total control and engagement which scares me.
I swear before this happens even the most diehard manual transmission-loving petrolhead will be happy with a floaty 1970s Chrysler New Yorker - because at least that car has personality, sound and you are driving it and in control! :praise:
Prices on 1970 New Yorkers (and other often ignored cars of the era) are on the rise. (While traditional muscle cars seemed to have leveled off, or even taken a hit).
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 20, 2019, 10:21:46 AM
They're kind of going hand in hand, although you're right technically. I see people being much less attached to electric cars once they become common place though; and possibly if automation gets "lights out" enough, to go to a pay-per-mile or rental mode of use, rather than ownership.
I think they're being incorrectly associated, probably due to Tesla's Autopilot system. In reality you don't need one to have the other, and if you give people the choice between one or the other I'd wager the average person would choose autonomy over an EV any day. I def would.
Both techs face difficulties that are similar in scope but very different in type. EV demand and profit just isn't there and doesn't seem to be anywhere on the horizon. Autonomy demand is 10000% there, but the tech is proving tough, and if you ask me, since the buzz has died down a bit I'd wager manufacturers are backing off from "mobility" completely as that would destroy their business model. Very few people would actually buy a new car in a world of legitimate AVs.
If the nightmare scenario I described becomes a reality, and infrastructure reaches its capacity limit, then tolls or some sort of GPS-enabled pay-per-mile scheme will have to be enacted in order to manage demand. That's really the only way to effectively handle tragedies of the commons: make users pay the cost directly.
Feel free to become a bicycle enthusiast. Bikes are never going to become autonomous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIsa0L5UNgs
People still check their fucking phones while they ride though, I mean WTF :rage:
If AVs become a reality, I'd wager traffic would go down significantly as there would be a lot of ride sharing.
Functional public transportation systems show people are willing to give up privacy to save money, and I think AVs would essentially become public transportation decoupled from fixed routes. Privacy would be a perk people could pay for on a sliding scale.
I think about my job- I know about 8 people who live within 2-4 or so miles of me. We could all definitely ride in together. That's potentially 7 vehicles off the road. Multiply that out and it adds up fast.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 20, 2019, 10:23:25 AM
Prices on 1970 New Yorkers (and other often ignored cars of the era) are on the rise. (While traditional muscle cars seemed to have leveled off, or even taken a hit).
Interesting. What's driving up the prices for those cars? I thought during the Malaise Era the few performance cars around would be getting all the love today.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 20, 2019, 01:16:54 PM
Functional public transportation systems show people are willing to give up privacy to save money
I don't think that's the reason at all. Good public transportation is preferable because it's a hell of a lot faster to get from point A to point B than by taking SOVs in congested surface streets.
(NYC fails the "good" litmus test, lol)
If lots of people share AVs then that could alleviate congestion, but it might also lead us into a local maxima and displace funding for more effective mass transit measures.
Quote from: Laconian on September 20, 2019, 05:56:18 PM
I don't think that's the reason at all. Good public transportation is preferable because it's a hell of a lot faster to get from point A to point B than by taking SOVs in congested surface streets.
(NYC fails the "good" litmus test, lol)
If lots of people share AVs then that could alleviate congestion, but it might also lead us into a local maxima and displace funding for more effective mass transit measures.
NYC has its problems but I don't know anywhere in the country with better public transit
And effective mass transit requires population density most places in the US don't have
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 20, 2019, 07:15:12 PM
NYC has its problems but I don't know anywhere in the country with better public transit
A low bar ;)
Quote
And effective mass transit requires population density most places in the US don't have
30% of the US population lives in urban areas. 50% live in the suburbs. Good mass transit can connect the two places together far better than roads. Compare the commuter rail in the NE with what we have in Seattle. Dave commutes to Manhattan all the way from CT in something like an hour. Seattle doesn't have rail, and the best you can hope for here during rush hour is traveling ten or fifteen miles along I-5. It's insane.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 20, 2019, 05:28:28 PM
Interesting. What's driving up the prices for those cars? I thought during the Malaise Era the few performance cars around would be getting all the love today.
I think in part people are tired of seeing an assortment of Camaros, Mustangs, Chevelles, and Chargers at shows.
There's also the performance of new cars keeps going up, making the old muscle cars less impressive to many. People are getting nostalgic about the cars that people actually used, that are comfortable to drive, and that they can cruise around with a group in. Station Wagons and trucks have already gone up in price over the last 10 years, and full size sedans are following.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 19, 2019, 02:53:33 AM
Hey Raza,
How are you going to get around once we're all forced to drive EVs and driving a car with an internal combustion engine is punishable by death? :lol:
Uber, probably.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 19, 2019, 08:17:13 AM
Wow, complaining that everything used to be better... so edgy and original
What is so bad about this becoming a hybrid?
My only complaint with this is that they didn't take the opportunity to bring back a cool NA motor. Like that old 4.2L V8
Hybrids are heavy, complicated, lifeless to drive, and not fun. I didn't think liking cars was counterculture around here.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 19, 2019, 03:54:17 PM
Automobiles liberated horses. Horses changed from being everyday working animals to being pets, racehorses, dressage and show horses.
Automation and electrification will do the same for cars.
I'm supposed to be happy that an everyday activity I used to enjoy will become a weekend hobby for the super rich only? Not a lot of middle class-owned race horses.
Hey, remember that thing you used to love? It's cool--someone can do it instead.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 21, 2019, 05:57:57 AM
I think in part people are tired of seeing an assortment of Camaros, Mustangs, Chevelles, and Chargers at shows.
There's also the performance of new cars keeps going up, making the old muscle cars less impressive to many. People are getting nostalgic about the cars that people actually used, that are comfortable to drive, and that they can cruise around with a group in. Station Wagons and trucks have already gone up in price over the last 10 years, and full size sedans are following.
Way back when, what we consider antiques, Model Ts, Model As, old Packards, old Auburns, etc. were what people collected and restored. They were the cars of their youth. We were all driving the new muscle cars. Fast forward, we drooled over the cars of our youth, 50s, 60s. Now car guys are looking at the cars of their youth, 70s, 80s. God help them, so sad.
Quote from: Raza on September 21, 2019, 08:30:39 AM
I'm supposed to be happy that an everyday activity I used to enjoy will become a weekend hobby for the super rich only? Not a lot of middle class-owned race horses.
Hey, remember that thing you used to love? It's cool--someone can do it instead.
Don't ever give up your Z4, or whatever it is.
Quote from: Raza on September 21, 2019, 08:25:28 AM
Hybrids are heavy, complicated, lifeless to drive, and not fun.
Hyperbole much?
Quote from: Raza on September 21, 2019, 08:25:28 AM
I didn't think liking cars was counterculture around here.
If by "liking cars" you mean shitting on anything that doesn't fit your old and very limited definition if what a fun car can be, then sure. I think many would disagree though
Quote from: Raza on September 21, 2019, 08:30:39 AM
I'm supposed to be happy that an everyday activity I used to enjoy will become a weekend hobby for the super rich only? Not a lot of middle class-owned race horses.
Hey, remember that thing you used to love? It's cool--someone can do it instead.
Hey, there's a bright side is all I'm saying. Shit changes.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 21, 2019, 08:58:37 AM
Way back when, what we consider antiques, Model Ts, Model As, old Packards, old Auburns, etc. were what people collected and restored. They were the cars of their youth. We were all driving the new muscle cars. Fast forward, we drooled over the cars of our youth, 50s, 60s. Now car guys are looking at the cars of their youth, 70s, 80s. God help them, so sad.
Not sad at all. The good muscle cars are now over priced and under performing. Cheaper cars that you can modify any way you want without being accused of bastardizing history or whatever can be just as fun as muscle cars were before they were taken over by the ice cream cruiser set.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 21, 2019, 08:58:37 AM
Way back when, what we consider antiques, Model Ts, Model As, old Packards, old Auburns, etc. were what people collected and restored. They were the cars of their youth. We were all driving the new muscle cars. Fast forward, we drooled over the cars of our youth, 50s, 60s. Now car guys are looking at the cars of their youth, 70s, 80s. God help them, so sad.
Model Ts were important cars, but they were neither pretty nor performant. :huh:
Quote from: Raza on September 21, 2019, 08:30:39 AM
I'm supposed to be happy that an everyday activity I used to enjoy will become a weekend hobby for the super rich only? Not a lot of middle class-owned race horses.
Hey, remember that thing you used to love? It's cool--someone can do it instead.
I'm not thrilled with what's happened to driving either. There are too many people on the roads, too many of them are distracted, and too many of them are piloting five ton WMDs that should require CDLs. Traffic jams everywhere, and the threat of annihilation at the wrong end of bumper-height mismatch, do put a damper on my enthusiasm.
My region used to be better for driving, but the situation became a lot worse after half of California migrated north.
Quote from: Laconian on September 20, 2019, 08:29:36 PM
A low bar ;)
30% of the US population lives in urban areas. 50% live in the suburbs. Good mass transit can connect the two places together far better than roads. Compare the commuter rail in the NE with what we have in Seattle. Dave commutes to Manhattan all the way from CT in something like an hour. Seattle doesn't have rail, and the best you can hope for here during rush hour is traveling ten or fifteen miles along I-5. It's insane.
Hey man, I sense and appreciate your frustration.
But ultimately, functional/sustainable requires population density, and most US cities/suburbs just don't have it. Commuter rail works for the NYC metro area because even places with low density are feeding into spokes that go back to the core. But to use commuter rail to get, say, from the south to north shore of Long Island is a very long trip with lots of connections and the like.
Like I said a lot of people at my job basically have my commute. But "a lot" is relative. Maybe 400-500 people in a 1200 person office? Granted we do reverse commute so there's volume to support it the other way, but I just don't see enough population density or centralization to support a similar hub-spoke setup.
AVs are free of all those restrictions and can use existing roads rather than needing tracks like trains. For better or worse I really think that's the future of transportation
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2019, 10:55:35 AM
Hyperbole much?
No....? Other than maybe supercar hybrids, have any had a reputation for being fun to drive?
Quote
If by "liking cars" you mean shitting on anything that doesn't fit your old and very limited definition if what a fun car can be, then sure. I think many would disagree though
Yeah, if you're into hybrids and EVs and AVs, you don't like cars. You like technology. And that's fine, you can like technology. It's completely valid and no better or worse than liking cars. But let's not pretend you are what you aren't.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 21, 2019, 12:08:22 PM
Hey, there's a bright side is all I'm saying. Shit changes.
Where's the bright side?
Quote from: Laconian on September 21, 2019, 12:42:20 PM
I'm not thrilled with what's happened to driving either. There are too many people on the roads, too many of them are distracted, and too many of them are piloting five ton WMDs that should require CDLs. Traffic jams everywhere, and the threat of annihilation at the wrong end of bumper-height mismatch, do put a damper on my enthusiasm.
My region used to be better for driving, but the situation became a lot worse after half of California migrated north.
Yeah, things changed when people switched over from the "Pay attention or you'll die" driver's ed to the touchy feely "driving's a fun, safe activity" driver's ed.
But still, even if this is the reality, which I'm sure it is, why do I have to be happy about it? Something I love is going away. Should I smile and welcome these facsimiles with open arms?
Quote from: Raza on September 22, 2019, 08:28:20 AM
No....? Other than maybe supercar hybrids, have any had a reputation for being fun to drive?
There haven't been any non-supercar hybrids focused on driving fun & performance so this is kind of a strawman. I doubt hybridization will turn the RS4 into a Prius.
Quote from: Raza on September 22, 2019, 08:28:20 AM
Yeah, if you're into hybrids and EVs and AVs, you don't like cars. You like technology. And that's fine, you can like technology. It's completely valid and no better or worse than liking cars. But let's not pretend you are what you aren't.
Man you sure love to subscribe to antiquated dogmatic orthodoxy. No, liking cars that aren't 100% ICE powered, 3 pedal equipped with fully defeatible stability control doesn't mean one isn't into cars. And in any case, what's the prize for being a devout Razautobilist?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 22, 2019, 09:50:38 AM
There haven't been any non-supercar hybrids focused on driving fun & performance so this is kind of a strawman.
CR-Z? :lol:
Anyways, EV drivetrains and the trend MMI-drenched, USB-encrusted isolation cabins may have occurred around the same time, but that doesn't mean that the former trend gave rise to the latter. I can tick off countless unthusiast cars and CUVs which burn gas too. For some anecdotal counterexamples, the friend with an I-Pace is a bona fide car geek, loves driving much too fast, and loves the hell out of his EV. afty here is a car wonk too, and he's a Model 3 fan. :huh:
I would love to try a Miata with an EV drivetrain. Having actual low end torque would certainly transform the character of the car, but it would become something different, not something worse. A previous gen Mini with an electric motor would be cool too.
+1 that EVs don't have to be soulless. And the rise of AVs isn't really linked to EVs either. They both just happen to be more possible in 2019 than ever before.
What if an EV had a simulated manual transmission with force feedback and symposed engine lugging? Would you drive it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3tmdnVPCes
Quote from: Laconian on September 22, 2019, 01:28:28 PM
What if an EV had a simulated manual transmission with force feedback and symposed engine lugging? Would you drive it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3tmdnVPCes
The game that taught me how to drive a stick.
I will put it like this. If you ever unleashed the dragon to porn, complaining about shit not feeling real or whatever is bogus. Simulations can be satisfactory... if you allow them to be ;)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 22, 2019, 02:26:30 PM
I will put it like this. If you ever unleashed the dragon to porn, complaining about shit not feeling real or whatever is bogus. Simulations can be satisfactory... if you allow them to be ;)
What is this dragon of porn?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 21, 2019, 05:57:57 AM
I think in part people are tired of seeing an assortment of Camaros, Mustangs, Chevelles, and Chargers at shows.
There's also the performance of new cars keeps going up, making the old muscle cars less impressive to many. People are getting nostalgic about the cars that people actually used, that are comfortable to drive, and that they can cruise around with a group in. Station Wagons and trucks have already gone up in price over the last 10 years, and full size sedans are following.
Good insight. Thanks! :cheers: