EVs

[SJ_GTI]

Companies catching up to Tesla?

https://electrek.co/2021/01/13/vw-group-increases-electric-car-sales-by-over-200/

2020 was a turning point in the Volkswagen Group's electrification effort with sales of all-electric vehicles increasing by 214%, dwarfing plug-in hybrid sales.

VW sold 231,600 all-electric vehicles in 2020.

Volkswagen ID.3: 56,500 units
Audi e-tron: 47,300 units
Volkswagen e-Golf: 41,300 units
Volkswagen e-up!: 22,200 units
Porsche Taycan: 20,000 units

So not quite half of Tesla, but with the ID.4 coming out that should give them another bump in 2021.

[Laconian]

e-up! is kind of an offensive name from a pronunciation POV.

[Morris Minor]

e-up! is kind of an offensive name from a pronunciation POV.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ey_up

Ey Up. Stop faffing about wi' them petrol cars. You'll be chuffed t' bits when yer get one o' them e-ups.

[FoMoJo]

e-up! is kind of an offensive name from a pronunciation POV.

Sounds like something you might say to a mule.

[CaminoRacer]

Twitter thread about EVs during the Texas blackout:

https://twitter.com/answerswithjoe/status/1363377217569349634?s=19

[veeman]

Twitter thread about EVs during the Texas blackout:

https://twitter.com/answerswithjoe/status/1363377217569349634?s=19

I was ribbing two of my brother in laws' about their Teslas (one has a Model S and the other is about to get a Model Y) about how lame it would be if their only car was an EV and the current state of the electric grid especially what's happening in Texas right now. 

Yeah there are long lines at gas stations there and some have run out of gas but overall, I think, what's happening right now in Texas puts a bit of a damper on EV enthusiasm.  The stability of the electric grid, particularly as these once every century weather events start occurring yearly, isn't great for EV as your only means of transport when the shit hits the fan (or more like when the icicles form on your ceiling fan).
I dunno.  Maybe I'm wrong. 

When we lost power for over a week several months ago, I had no plumbing, and my portable generator was broken.  So I shlept the fam up to my brother in laws house who also didn't have power for a week but he has one of those 20 grand generators that automatically powers the whole house when the electricity goes out.  His Tesla sat in the garage though unpowered.  Even his fancy generator couldn't power his car.  I told him he's a dumbass if he's going to get rid of his wife's ICE car for another EV (leaving him with two EV and no ICE car).  I really enjoy ribbing him about his Tesla Model S.  Everytime I go there though I want to ride in it.  It's such a nice car. 

[CaminoRacer]

I was ribbing two of my brother in laws' about their Teslas (one has a Model S and the other is about to get a Model Y) about how lame it would be if their only car was an EV and the current state of the electric grid especially what's happening in Texas right now. 

Yeah there are long lines at gas stations there and some have run out of gas but overall, I think, what's happening right now in Texas puts a bit of a damper on EV enthusiasm.  The stability of the electric grid, particularly as these once every century weather events start occurring yearly, isn't great for EV as your only means of transport when the shit hits the fan (or more like when the icicles form on your ceiling fan).
I dunno.  Maybe I'm wrong. 

When we lost power for over a week several months ago, I had no plumbing, and my portable generator was broken.  So I shlept the fam up to my brother in laws house who also didn't have power for a week but he has one of those 20 grand generators that automatically powers the whole house when the electricity goes out.  His Tesla sat in the garage though unpowered.  Even his fancy generator couldn't power his car.  I told him he's a dumbass if he's going to get rid of his wife's ICE car for another EV (leaving him with two EV and no ICE car).  I really enjoy ribbing him about his Tesla Model S.  Everytime I go there though I want to ride in it.  It's such a nice car. 

Having both an EV and an ICE car, or a PHEV with decent range, seems like a good idea for disaster prep. That way you can use whatever's available first, electricity or gasoline.

The distributed network for electricity is nice to avoid long lines at the gas station, though.

[Laconian]

You can't pump gas into your car if the grid's down. Texas-style "surge pricing" is another thing entirely. Don't want that charge to cost a hundred grand...

[afty]

I got an L2 charger installed!



I had been charging on 120V, which was adequate, but this is 5x faster.

[veeman]

I got an L2 charger installed!



I had been charging on 120V, which was adequate, but this is 5x faster.

Good!  How much did it cost to have installed? 

[afty]

$1200. Bay Area prices. The other guy quoted me $2400, which is just insane.

Charging at 8 kW!

[veeman]

Good!  How much did it cost to have installed? 

I got an L2 charger installed!



I had been charging on 120V, which was adequate, but this is 5x faster.

Sweet! 

[Morris Minor]

$1200. Bay Area prices. The other guy quoted me $2400, which is just insane.

Charging at 8 kW!

Awesome - my son had a 240V receptacle put in his garage (Bay Area also) when he was having his home electrics upgraded. He doesn't have an EV... yet...


Out of interest. Where would you ideally mount the outlets in a 2-bay garage to minimize cable untidiness?

[Soup DeVille]

You can't pump gas into your car if the grid's down. Texas-style "surge pricing" is another thing entirely. Don't want that charge to cost a hundred grand...

Depends.

Most large truck stops have backup generators and will keep pumping gas in most conditions; your corner gas station/ mini mart won't.

[Soup DeVille]

$1200. Bay Area prices. The other guy quoted me $2400, which is just insane.

Charging at 8 kW!

All he installed was a 240v 40a plug though?

Even including a breaker, and pulling cable all the way back to the box- that's like a $600 job.

[CaminoRacer]

All he installed was a 240v 40a plug though?

Even including a breaker, and pulling cable all the way back to the box- that's like a $600 job.

$600 anywhere not in the Bay Area

[CaminoRacer]

Awesome - my son had a 240V receptacle put in his garage (Bay Area also) when he was having his home electrics upgraded. He doesn't have an EV... yet...


Out of interest. Where would you ideally mount the outlets in a 2-bay garage to minimize cable untidiness?

Depends on the car. Some have charging points near the front, some are at the back like Tesla's.
And if you like to pull in normally or back in.

[afty]

All he installed was a 240v 40a plug though?

50a, but yeah.  Also needed a 100a breaker for the main panel to the subpanel where the charger power comes from.

Even including a breaker, and pulling cable all the way back to the box- that's like a $600 job.

Bay Area :/  I've gotten 3 quotes for this job.  First back in 2019 when I bought the car, an electrician quoted me $2000.  Then now I had this quote and another for $2500.  The $2500 guy was super sketchy.  He tried to convince me that the people who owned this house before us hadn't pulled a permit for the main panel upgrade and that it needed to be redone.  I checked the county website, and they definitely did pull a permit and pass inspection.  He also tried to upsell me to a built-in Tesla charger, which I don't want since I wouldn't be able to easily change it out if we buy some other brand of EV in the future. 

The guy I went with was super nice and responsive.  Plus he actually showed up when he said he was going to and did what he said he was going to do.  That counts for a lot in my book. 😀

[afty]

Depends on the car. Some have charging points near the front, some are at the back like Tesla's.
And if you like to pull in normally or back in.

Yeah, it's going to depend on the car.  Teslas have the charging ports on the driver's side rear, so mine is installed in the left rear of the garage.

Different chargers come with different lengths of cable.  I'd pay a premium for a longer cable for more flexibility down the road.

[Morris Minor]

Yeah, it's going to depend on the car.  Teslas have the charging ports on the driver's side rear, so mine is installed in the left rear of the garage.

Different chargers come with different lengths of cable.  I'd pay a premium for a longer cable for more flexibility down the road.

It would be handy to have something you could pull down from the ceiling. Counter-weighted arm or retractable reel or something.

[FoMoJo]

A longer cord?  No need to get too fancy.

[Soup DeVille]

A longer cord?  No need to get too fancy.

I'd put a twistlock connector on the ceiling, and get a long enough cord to drop in the right area no matter which car you get.

[veeman]

Tesla owners are weird.  Or maybe it's more owning a Tesla makes one weird.   

My brother in law is going to a VRBO with his family near Tampa, Florida in a few weeks for a vacation.  Actually everyone in the Northeast U.S. is going to Florida in the next few weeks but that's a different thread. He's driving and he lives in Massachusetts.  Flights are pretty cheap but anyways he's driving and going to stay in hotels/motels on the way to Tampa.  He has a Tesla Model S and an ICE Acura RDX.  So he's telling me he's taking his Model S and has calculated that it will "only" take him an extra 6 hours to get there.  He's telling me he wants to drive "relaxed".  Drive for a few hours, charge up for 45 minutes, drive for a few hours, charge up, then turn in for the night.  Repeat the next day.  And the next.  (It's a 20 hour drive). 

So I'm staring straight ahead as a passenger in his car with him as he's telling me this.  I can't help myself so I start asking him, "and why again do you want to take your Tesla instead of your RDX?"

"I want to drive relaxed."

"You can't drive relaxed in your RDX?"

So he then starts showing me on his Tesla using the big screen how far the next Tesla public charging station is, how many chargers they have available right now, and how fast he can expect to charge at that particular station (the more users at a particular public charging station at any given time, the slower the charge time).  "See, it's no problem.  I can easily get there and there are always spots available and I know exactly how long it will take me to charge."

"That's really cool.  It's amazing this Tesla.  So why don't you want to take your RDX?  6 hours is a lot of time"

"Nahh, I want to drive relaxed.  Over three days it's nothing.  We can go to the bathroom.  The time goes by quick.  I want to take the Tesla because my son likes to play solitaire on the big screen while I drive."

"You're fuc_ing weird man.  More power to you.  But all you Tesla owners are fu_king weird man."

[MrH]

Buy your son a $100 tablet, get there a half a day earlier.

[CaminoRacer]

Adding 6 hours to the trip is only worth it if you can also enjoy the drive by taking interesting routes and see the sights along the way - true roadtrip style. Just tacking 6 hours onto a freeway route sucks.

[Morris Minor]

Long distance travel is never listed as a compelling reason for owning an EV.

[afty]

I wouldn't drive 20 hours in any car.

[cawimmer430]

And this is why I don't want an EV in it's current form: unstable ranges and loooooooong charging times.

After a hard day of work, I want to speed home and not be forced to stop somewhere and wait minutes for 100 km of range - which drop like a rock once you go over 120 km/h on the Autobahn (even in those famed Tesla Model 3 Long Ranges...). When you see EVs on the Autobahn, they're usually behind a truck (80 km/h) or in the slow lane at 100 km/h (62 mph) - to extend their range. I'm a zippy driver - cruising speed for me on the Autobahn is usually 150-160 km/h - this speed drains the battery of any current EV in no time.

[SJ_GTI]

An opinion (er, analysis) piece mostly on VW but includes Tesla as a reference point. Its from "Fake News CNN" but was an interesting read nonetheless.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/business/volkswagen-tesla/index.html

Some points I found interesting or resonated with me:

Volkswagen this week underscored the scale of its ambitions. It said it would sell more than 2 million electric vehicles by 2025, build its own network of vast battery factories, hire 6,500 IT experts over the next five years, launch its own operating system, and become Europe's second biggest software company behind SAP (SAP).

Despite the recent rise in its share price, Volkswagen is worth significantly less than Tesla. The market value of the challenger led by Elon Musk first overtook that of Volkswagen in January 2020, and the gap has increased dramatically since then. Volkswagen has a market capitalization of €111 billion ($133 billion), compared to $680 billion for Tesla.

Along with this in particular:

"While growth will be key, its profitability profile will be under the microscope from investors going forward to better discern how quickly Tesla can ramp its margin structure, especially with higher margin sales coming out of China over the next few years," said Ives.

It boggles my mind that Tesla is worth 6x that of VW, despite not really earning much (if any) profit in its core business. The analysis suggests they will be able to monetize their software edge in the future, but we'll see how that goes I guess.

[Morris Minor]

An opinion (er, analysis) piece mostly on VW but includes Tesla as a reference point. Its from "Fake News CNN" but was an interesting read nonetheless.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/business/volkswagen-tesla/index.html

There's a reason why Silicon Valley is located in the USA and not Germany: corporate culture there does not embrace the concept of experimentation, making mistakes and learning from them. There is almost no risk tolerance.
"Build their own operating system" and "hire 6,500 IT experts." illustrate the vastness of the extent to which they don't get it.
They need to move to Palo Alto or Sunnyvale, hire a few decent software engineers and start working 60 hour weeks.