http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/laws.html
I hadn't seen it before. Interesting comparison of state to state speeding laws, what's considered reckless, what the grace is, etc. Could be useful to know when traveling.
Cool, reckless is 30-over in Maine :lol:
Thanks for posting this, ChrisV. I think I may have seen it somewhere before, but I wouldn't have known where to find it. It has some useful information, like the speed at which operation is considered to be reckless. I always like to know that and usually keep my speed below it. While I'd never allow a ticket to ruin my weekend, being led off in 'cuffs might... :lockedup:
Quote from: dazzleman on July 29, 2007, 07:53:55 AM
Thanks for posting this, ChrisV. I think I may have seen it somewhere before, but I wouldn't have known where to find it.
I've seen it posted either @ reasonable drivers unanimous or motorists.org, I don't remember which
We're gonna sticky this in here.
Can someone explain to me what the difference between an absolute and prima facie speed limit is?
Quote from: R-inge on July 31, 2007, 03:38:39 PM
Can someone explain to me what the difference between an absolute and prima facie speed limit is?
One of the parties has the burden of proof, which requires that party to present prima facie evidence of all facts essential to its case. If that party fails to present prima facie evidence on any required element of its case, its claim may be dismissed without any response by the opposing party. A prima facie case may be insufficient to enable a party to prevail if the opposing party introduces contradictory evidence or asserts an affirmative defense. What a prima facie speed limit is is this: if you can prove that your speed was not unsafe, then the speed limit is not the legal determiner of whether you will be fined or not.
An example is you pass someone and speed up over the speed limit to make the pass and then are slowing down afterwards, but still get clocked going over the limit. If you can prove to the court that your speeding to get by someone was to minimize your exposure in the oncoming lane and thus increase overall safety, then the speed limit is not the determinant whether you will get a fine. i.e. you've proven that it was safer to exceed the limit for a short time than hang out at the limit ion the oncoming lane, that is an example of providing prima facie evidence.
Some states allow this, and others just say that's proof that you were guilty.
Quote from: ChrisV on July 31, 2007, 04:17:01 PM
One of the parties has the burden of proof, which requires that party to present prima facie evidence of all facts essential to its case. If that party fails to present prima facie evidence on any required element of its case, its claim may be dismissed without any response by the opposing party. A prima facie case may be insufficient to enable a party to prevail if the opposing party introduces contradictory evidence or asserts an affirmative defense. What a prima facie speed limit is is this: if you can prove that your speed was not unsafe, then the speed limit is not the legal determiner of whether you will be fined or not.
An example is you pass someone and speed up over the speed limit to make the pass and then are slowing down afterwards, but still get clocked going over the limit. If you can prove to the court that your speeding to get by someone was to minimize your exposure in the oncoming lane and thus increase overall safety, then the speed limit is not the determinant whether you will get a fine. i.e. you've proven that it was safer to exceed the limit for a short time than hang out at the limit ion the oncoming lane, that is an example of providing prima facie evidence.
Some states allow this, and others just say that's proof that you were guilty.
Thanks Chris, that's extremely helpful. :ohyeah:
Quote from: R-inge on July 31, 2007, 03:38:39 PM
Can someone explain to me what the difference between an absolute and prima facie speed limit is?
Absolute speed- is the posted limit on the sign - the speed limit starts at that sign and is the absolute fastest you are allowed to go and the speed limit does not change until the next sign saying it is something different.
Prima Facie speed- is the statutory speed limit in a given are like a residential zone but is not posted- the residential zone speeds are by statutory law restricted to 25mph unless otherwise posted as something else. Same goes for areas outside of incorporated zones like cities where the speed is unposted and would be commonly thought to be 55 by a reasonable person.
"In Rhode Island, Texas, and Utah driving faster than the speed limit is prima facie evidence of unreasonable speed. One can argue in court that one was exceeding the speed limit but should not be convicted because the speed was safe (when they accept this argument, judges will likely want to see evidence beyond a defendant's claim that he was driving safely)."
Hmm...so I could have gotten out of my ticket since the speed was safe. I wonder what constitutes proof.
I dunno, maybe road, weather, population density, and traffic conditions. A diploma from a driving school. You'd probably need a video of the event and a sympathetic judge. Maybe there's so e legislative history for guidance
Quote from: MaxPower on November 08, 2009, 06:02:36 PM
I dunno, maybe road, weather, population density, and traffic conditions. A diploma from a driving school. You'd probably need a video of the event and a sympathetic judge. Maybe there's so e legislative history for guidance
Quite the thread bump there.
I am pretty sure the ticket even listed the traffic as light (and that was an exaggeration, it was midnight in a rural bedroom community) and the weather as clear (though obviously it was dark). Oh well, as it is I just paid it and never heard about it again.
Sort of related...
I was perusing the Maine motor vehicle statutes tonight and discovered that in 2009 the ME legislature enacted a law that makes red light and speed cameras illegal! Whoohoo! :cheers: