I know Leno repeats himself in these videos but it's worth enduring just to listen to the sound this thing makes (9,500rpm red line). I remember these because neighbors of my parents where I grew up had his & her Honda S600s, husband and wife. (he'd made his money as the inventor of the UHT process for milk).
http://youtu.be/Qdck07wTRXo (http://youtu.be/Qdck07wTRXo)
Interesting little car. I remember reading about them when they first came out, but never saw one. It always puzzled me a bit about the chain drive. It seemed a bit over-complicated for the benefit.
Seems a few reasons for the rear suspension. It's gets the (heavy) diff closer to the center of the car - better weight distribution and a shorter drive shaft (important for 9,500 rpm red line). It also affords independent suspension and constant camber articulation at that (but not sure if latter is an advantage).
I'd still like an oil pressure gauge.
Freaking love this car.
Its all about the Flowmasters
Why don't you need an oil pressure gauge with a roller bearing crankshaft?
Quote from: Rupert on December 26, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
Why don't you need an oil pressure gauge with a roller bearing crankshaft?
Cuz the bearings dont need to be pressurized in order to keep the metals apart. Shit just rolls!
Quote from: Rupert on December 26, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
Why don't you need an oil pressure gauge with a roller bearing crankshaft?
When bearings wear the pressure drops due to lack of resistance to the flow of oil. With needle bearings, the resistance isn't there...I think :hmm:.
Doesn't oil pressure matter for other parts? Like those in the head?
Quote from: Rupert on December 26, 2014, 03:46:34 PM
Doesn't oil pressure matter for other parts? Like those in the head?
Solid lifters, mang.
Quote from: Rupert on December 26, 2014, 03:46:34 PM
Doesn't oil pressure matter for other parts? Like those in the head?
It flows there. I'm wondering what kind of pressure it needs to squirt up under the piston.
Quote from: Rupert on December 26, 2014, 03:46:34 PM
Doesn't oil pressure matter for other parts? Like those in the head?
Yes. That "it has roller bearings" reasoning for not having an oil pressure gauge was nonsense. Roller bearings need oil too, as will the cam, wrist pins, valve train, and rings, and there has to be a good amount of pressure for it to circulate. And really, by and large oil pressure gauges are a big meh. Not only can pressure vary widely for a properly running engine, pressure is not the be-all and end-all - oil volume counts too and that is not directly correlated to pressure (good pressure but low flow = starved bearings all the same). By the time the pressure drops due to a problem the engine is already toast. I mean, you might (a BIG might) be able to limit damage by seeing a pressure drop and shutting it down, but that's a big "might."
I will say a roller bearing crank is all sorts of mega cool though.
Maybe I've been self-mislead, but I've always thought of oil pressure as, is oil moving?
Quote from: Rupert on December 26, 2014, 04:10:15 PM
Maybe I've been self-mislead, but I've always thought of oil pressure as, is oil moving?
The movement of volume comes from the pump, but the pressure is created by forcing that volume through controlled orfices and the clearances of oil lubricated plain sliding bearings (not roller bearings). Aren't you a hydrologist or something? So worn bearings = bigger clearance = larger office = lower oil pressure.
Right, but how else do you know if the right volume is being moved? You can also slow the movement of volume through the smaller orifices to decrease pressure, yes?
Hydrologist, not hydraulicist. ;)
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 26, 2014, 04:17:56 PM
The movement of volume comes from the pump, but the pressure is created by forcing that volume through controlled orfices and the clearances of oil lubricated plain sliding bearings (not roller bearings). Aren't you a hydrologist or something? So worn bearings = bigger clearance = larger office = lower oil pressure.
Yes, a better explanation. Worn bearings, crank journals, will lower oil pressure. Even one worn journal bearing will lower the pressure impacting flow through the bearings that aren't worn.
Oh, and yes, of course that makes sense.
Quote from: Rupert on December 26, 2014, 04:24:38 PM
Right, but how else do you know if the right volume is being moved? You can also slow the movement of volume through the smaller orifices to decrease pressure, yes?
Hydrologist, not hydraulicist. ;)
It is designed into the system. Nobody has an oil volume gauge because the volume is basically fixed to engine speed as long as the oil pump works. Pressure will vary with wear, temperature, and volume, so someone decided pressure was important to know.
Oil pressure gauge also works as a temperature gauge. And knowing if you took out the oil pan on a large rock.
Seems like things like a busted oil pump or an increasingly large leak would be good to know ASAP, though.
I mean, whatever, most cars now just have a perfectly functional idiot light.
Quote from: Rupert on December 26, 2014, 04:10:15 PM
Maybe I've been self-mislead, but I've always thought of oil pressure as, is oil moving?
Yes, and that's basically all an oil gauge is good for - oil is moving. On a perfectly fine engine, oil pressure can vary widely based on temperature, viscosity, oil age and RPM - so unless you've oil pressure memorized for a given combo of these factors (I imagine some do, as in race car guys), pressure in and of itself doesn't mean much (unless of course it's ~0 psi). So, it's basically oil pressure gauge itself is an idiot light.
Quote from: Rupert on December 26, 2014, 04:10:15 PM
Maybe I've been self-mislead, but I've always thought of oil pressure as, is oil moving?
Not necessarily; but it does imply the oil pump is working and there is oil. A blocked oil passage can still starve out any one part.
And even if oil is moving where the pressure gauge is; what's to say it's moving everywhere else?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 27, 2014, 02:36:48 AM
Not necessarily; but it does imply the oil pump is working and there is oil. A blocked oil passage can still starve out any one part.
And even if oil is moving where the pressure gauge is; what's to say it's moving everywhere else?
The fact that your engine is still running is what says it.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 27, 2014, 05:48:28 AM
The fact that your engine is still running is what says it.
Yes, but the intent of the oil pressure gauge is to let you know something's amiss before the engine seizes.
my car is like my own personal universe
she's my drug and it only takes twelve bucks to fill 'er up
but in my galaxy there ain't no room for Earth
so I'm leavin it cuz I can feel the oil pressure building up
turning over the ignition of my solar system
check the gauges, push in the tape, put my foot on the brake
shift existence, light my cigarette
and take it state to state until I crash into my fate
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 27, 2014, 07:39:26 AM
Yes, but the intent of the oil pressure gauge is to let you know something's amiss before the engine seizes.
After the engine seized in my '57 Studebaker, lost a frost plug and the coolant drained, when it cooled off and contracted to the point that I could start it, the oil pressure was almost non-existent because of sudden bearing wear. Of course, all the knocking let me know something was amiss as well.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 27, 2014, 02:36:48 AM
Not necessarily; but it does imply the oil pump is working and there is oil. A blocked oil passage can still starve out any one part.
And even if oil is moving where the pressure gauge is; what's to say it's moving everywhere else?
Of course.
What a sound. Holy shit.
Makes me want an S2000 even more.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 26, 2014, 12:48:32 PM
Seems a few reasons for the rear suspension. It's gets the (heavy) diff closer to the center of the car - better weight distribution and a shorter drive shaft (important for 9,500 rpm red line). It also affords independent suspension and constant camber articulation at that (but not sure if latter is an advantage).
Looks like a lot of unsprung weight.
Quote from: Morris Minor on December 29, 2014, 11:52:22 AM
Looks like a lot of unsprung weight.
I believe the axle/differential housing is sprung weight and half of the chain housings are also sprung.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 29, 2014, 02:34:16 PM
I believe the axle/differential housing is sprung weight and half of the chain housings are also sprung.
Makes sense...
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQX4aS3-_XvqaRrNkzJegCFR5AfnmS2p4c8HBH-FkhprsjmMw7A)
I would wonder about the stress on the sideways chain housings during severe cornering.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 26, 2014, 12:48:32 PM
Seems a few reasons for the rear suspension. It's gets the (heavy) diff closer to the center of the car - better weight distribution and a shorter drive shaft (important for 9,500 rpm red line). It also affords independent suspension and constant camber articulation at that (but not sure if latter is an advantage).
I'd think that more weight to the rear would make for better balance.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7243/7167523665_5ccbaa66dc.jpg)
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 29, 2014, 04:29:10 PM
I'd think that more weight to the rear would make for better balance.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7243/7167523665_5ccbaa66dc.jpg)
Car that small, weight of the driver makes a big difference.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 29, 2014, 06:07:17 PM
Car that small, weight of the driver makes a big difference.
Good point. Looks like they'd be sitting on top of the rear axle.
Quote from: Rupert on December 27, 2014, 07:58:23 PM
Makes me want an S2000 even more.
Too bad they have tragically high prices.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on December 31, 2014, 07:04:47 PM
Too bad they have tragically high prices.
A colleague of mine had an S2000 & got rid of it after a year. It was not a good choice for rush hour commuting in big city traffic.
Quote from: Morris Minor on January 01, 2015, 12:03:10 PM
A colleague of mine had an S2000 & got rid of it after a year. It was not a good choice for rush hour commuting in big city traffic.
Nothing is good for that.
Thanks Morris for posting that. That sound. Mmmm mmm
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 01, 2015, 12:30:35 PM
Nothing is good for that.
For the commute: deadly dull hybrid appliance with a good sound system.
S2000 for the weekends.
Quote from: Morris Minor on January 02, 2015, 06:23:27 AM
For the commute: deadly dull hybrid appliance with a good sound system.
S2000 for the weekends.
Sounds miserable. All that ends up with is you no longer having a weekend car because your bloodspawn needs room in the garage for his art projects and participation trophies. Then it's "I used to have a sports car" then after a while it becomes "I used to be married" and "My kids used to talk to me" but also "but now I have a 911 with a race car transmission; it's great, it shifts by itself".
Quote from: Raza on January 03, 2015, 07:46:29 AM
Sounds miserable. All that ends up with is you no longer having a weekend car because your bloodspawn needs room in the garage for his art projects and participation trophies. Then it's "I used to have a sports car" then after a while it becomes "I used to be married" and "My kids used to talk to me" but also "but now I have a 911 with a race car transmission; it's great, it shifts by itself".
:clap:
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on December 31, 2014, 07:04:47 PM
Too bad they have tragically high prices.
They were heading in a good direction a few years ago, but it seems like they're on the upward track now. I'm thinking more about Boxsters, but I know that really, I'm committed to the 944 4 lyfe at this point.
Quote from: Rupert on January 03, 2015, 04:24:39 PM
They were heading in a good direction a few years ago, but it seems like they're on the upward track now. I'm thinking more about Boxsters, but I know that really, I'm committed to the 944 4 lyfe at this point.
Don't Boxsters have some kind of bearing failure issue?
Not sure. Initial stages of thinking about them. :lol:
I was vaguely thinking about a 914 until I saw some prices. Might as well save up a little bit more and get a 911/912.
For the 914/6? 914/4s are often pretty cheap.
Quote from: Rupert on January 04, 2015, 01:17:45 PM
For the 914/6? 914/4s are often pretty cheap.
Yeah, I thought the 4-banger models were still pretty cheap. The 6 cylinder models are significantly more rare (and higher value).
Quote from: Rupert on January 04, 2015, 01:17:45 PM
For the 914/6? 914/4s are often pretty cheap.
When I looked a week ago the 914/4s were mostly in the $20k range. I just looked again and saw some in the $10k range, which is around what I'd pay. The dream is alive.
I see them in the $4k range in good driving shape all the time. Where are you looking? Hemmings?
The Samba. I'm sure craigslist would be a bit cheaper.
edit: I'm also pickier about condition when it comes to imports. An old muscle car can be in terrible condition but I know my way around them more, so it'd be less of a chore to restore.
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 04, 2015, 06:55:04 PM
The Samba. I'm sure craigslist would be a bit cheaper.
edit: I'm also pickier about condition when it comes to imports. An old muscle car can be in terrible condition but I know my way around them more, so it'd be less of a chore to restore.
914s are basically flattened Beetles though.
A bit of a thread revival, but it fits. Dude took a junker S600 without a motor and put in the engine/trans from a CBR1000RR. It's so freaking sweet, and it apparently cost the guy less than 5k. I would love to be able to do something like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsbfzmPCYX4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsbfzmPCYX4)
Quote from: Xer0 on June 02, 2015, 08:06:06 PM
A bit of a thread revival, but it fits. Dude took a junker S600 without a motor and put in the engine/trans from a CBR1000RR. It's so freaking sweet, and it apparently cost the guy less than 5k. I would love to be able to do something like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsbfzmPCYX4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsbfzmPCYX4)
Awesome. I wonder if he found a way to give the car a reverse gear.
I don't think the gearbox will be long in that car. Whenever Jay got on or off the gas there was a big clacky thunk noise.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on June 02, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
I don't think the gearbox will be long in that car. Whenever Jay got on or off the gas there was a big clacky thunk noise.
Likely drive line slack. Though I do have to question how well a gearbox designed to propel a 700 lb GVWR motorcycle will hold up to pulling around a car weighing at least twice that.
Brilliant... this is right up my alley. I can't imagine any mega$$$ sportscar being as fun to drive at legal speeds. I recently saw an MG Midget for sale nearby for $800... not running but decent body/chassis. That plus a $1000 used sport bike would make a great project. I even like the ratty look of this 600... I think I would keep the Midget body the same way.
Another fun project would be a Fiat 800 (mid-engine) with a 700-1000cc snowmobile engine. Saw a 1000cc Thundercat for sale (~170 hp) for under $2k.
Perfect.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MG-Midget-convertible-/331569650830?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d33175c8e&item=331569650830 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MG-Midget-convertible-/331569650830?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d33175c8e&item=331569650830)