My son & DIL have one kid. They want to have two more. They're in the market for a non-luxury three-row vehicle with captain's chairs in 2nd row to allow room to access row three. Plus they need room in the back for a stroller. Suggestions welcome. Right now all I can think of is a Tahoe/Yukon. But California gas prices.
Any ideas?
Quotes below from my DIL
"Well we called the local Toyotas ahead of time and they don't have any hybrid highlanders to even look at. We looked at the non-hybrid option. It's nice. We stopped by the Kia after and should've called them too. They didn't have a single Sorrento on the lot."
"Sounds like it'll take 1-5 mo to order what we want. We will have to drive around to find a dealership that has one on the lot to even look at with the options we want
option. It's nice. We stopped by the Kia after and should've called them too. They didn't have a single Sorrento on the lot."
"The Highlander just barely fit our stroller in the trunk with the back seats up."
"We want to look at a Highlander with the captain chairs (rather than bench seat) in the 2nd row and then install 3 car seats in there and make sure they all fit and it's possible to climb in there and put kids in them."
"For example, our carseat is one of the smallest ones you can buy for her size and if we had another kid, we'd be forced to turn her forward facing in the CRV because it doesn't fit rear facing behind the front seats unless you pull them up further which also isn't safe for the driver and passenger."
"We're planning ahead for 3 kids in car seats all at once. Kids are in car seats much longer than they were when we were kids."
"I follow @safeintheseat and @thecarmom on Instagram and have learned how complicated it can be to get 3 car seats in 1 row. It's definitely possible but complicated and I think we'd just be happier for longer with 3 rows."
Honda Odyssey?
or a minivan
Seems like a Toyota or Honda minivan are the best options if they want captain chairs
Odyssey or Sienna.
Outside of a minivan, I was most impressed with the value, styling, and interior quality of the Hyundai Palisade/Kia Telluride. Even though they're mainstreamer brands, they feel like entry level luxury cars in terms of interior quality. I also think low mileage certified used Infiniti QX60s (like the one I recently bought) are good deals. 3 year old cars with less than 30 thousand miles, coming off a single owner lease, can be easily had for < $40 thousand.
Many 3 row SUVs come with the option of captain chairs or bench in the second row.
Ford Explorer, Chevy Traverse. Both are relatively fuel efficient for their size, 2nd-row captains chairs, split-folding 3rd row to maximize cargo space if/when a 3rd row seat is needed. May be more readily available than a Highlander, but I do not know.
Sienna
Challenger Hellcat.
Damn kids need to learn how to get along in close quarters.
Telluride/Palisade
Actually, 2 kids? Sienna.
ANY minivan has more interior room than any SUV.
They're usually cheaper to buy, too.
My vote is Odyssey or Sienna, but the new Kia minivan should be looked at, too.
Thanks. I'll throw the suggestions out there. Resistance to uncool minivans is high unfortunately. Left brain does not always win. If it were me I'd call a dealer, tell them to ta ke a $5k deposit on my card for a mid trim minivan and buy when it comes in. Trailing around from dealer to dealer is miserable. They are all good. I wouldn't bother with test drives.
It's the function over form vs form over function debate. Minivan wins if valuing function and culturally in the U.S. most people would say SUV would win out if valuing form.
Personally, I don't need the most functional possible car as a family hauler.
As an analogy I don't get the most functional winter jacket out there if I need a winter coat. I'm not dog sledding the Iditarod.
With three kids, you can get by just fine with a 3 row SUV with a little more style than a minivan. If he/she like the minivan, go for it. Otherwise it's not necessary for their needs. A car, even a family hauler, is an emotional investment. Otherwise we all should be buying used Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic hatchbacks or minivans.
Nowadays even kitchen appliances are bought based on form as much as function.
The Carnival!
If that doesn't pass as cool enough, Telluride/Palisade is the obvious choice here.
My recommendations. :praise:
(https://s39.wheelsage.org/picture/o/oldsmobile/vista_cruiser/oldsmobile_vista_cruiser_25.jpg)
(https://s38.wheelsage.org/picture/o/oldsmobile/vista_cruiser/oldsmobile_vista_cruiser_98.jpg)
Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 20, 2022, 08:32:35 AM
My recommendations. :praise:
(https://s39.wheelsage.org/picture/o/oldsmobile/vista_cruiser/oldsmobile_vista_cruiser_25.jpg)
(https://s38.wheelsage.org/picture/o/oldsmobile/vista_cruiser/oldsmobile_vista_cruiser_98.jpg)
The good old days when you could stuff kids in the boot of a station wagon. I remember as a middle schooler being driven 3 hrs in the boot of a wagon on the highway with my friend. Two other classmates in the rear seat. The driver was the vice principal of the middle school (his personal station wagon) and the front passenger was our math teacher. We were going to a state math competition for middle schoolers. Today that might be considered child abuse. Probably a good thing as we would have been meat missiles if we crashed hard.
Quote from: veeman on June 20, 2022, 08:52:41 AM
The good old days when you could stuff kids in the boot of a station wagon. I remember as a middle schooler being driven 3 hrs in the boot of a wagon on the highway with my friend. Two other classmates in the rear seat. The driver was the vice principal of the middle school (his personal station wagon) and the front passenger was our math teacher. We were going to a state math competition for middle schoolers. Today that might be considered child abuse. Probably a good thing as we would have been meat missiles if we crashed hard.
Yeah today some weirdos would accuse those teachers of somehow abusing those kids while unsupervised in the car. The world today is insane.
But I love on those old cars the advertising - it was so typical of the 1960s and 1970s to show a bunch of kids and maybe the baseball coach posing with the car. It's got some charm that's missing today from car advertising.
I agree! It's cute and frumpy. Modern ads sell aspirational lifestyles but this looks like a Midwestern slice of life.
DIL's sister has a Palisade and loves it. But it guzzles petrol. So they want a 3-row hybrid, which means Highlander or nothing unless they move into premium territory - so the kids would be puking all over premium leather instead of the cheap stuff.
OT, "Palisade." Your fortress against the world - picking off the hordes outside through arrow slits while your kids are strapped up tight in their seats.
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 21, 2022, 05:32:31 AM
DIL's sister has a Palisade and loves it. But it guzzles petrol. So they want a 3-row hybrid, which means Highlander or nothing unless they move into premium territory - so the kids would be puking all over premium leather instead of the cheap stuff.
OT, "Palisade." Your fortress against the world - picking off the hordes outside through arrow slits while your kids are strapped up tight in their seats.
It can't be that big of a fuel savings? The tax bill from the car sale alone will negate the MPG gains.
The castle is under threat from the WRX vape bros! Kids, prepare the boiling oil!
Quote from: Laconian on June 21, 2022, 09:43:40 AM
It can't be that big of a fuel savings? The tax bill from the car sale alone will negate the MPG gains.
The castle is under threat from the WRX vape bros! Kids, prepare the boiling oil!
36city/35hwy for the hybrid, 21/29 for the gasser. So, fairly significant difference for city driving.
Using the preset values in fueleconomy.gov (15,000 miles driven a year /55% local, 45% highway/ $5.01 per gallon) a Toyota Highlander Hybrid AWD saves you $1500 in annual fueling costs over a Hyundai Palisade. Over 5 years that's $7500.
May be worth it depending on whether you have to pay a premium over MSRP for the Toyota Hybrid. MSRP they're both similarly priced. The Toyota Hybrid has a lot more range on a single tank of gas (nearly 600 miles).
I know the Rav4 Hybrids are selling like hotcakes with wait lists and markups. Not sure about Highlanders though
From what I can see on Toyota's site, Highlander hybrids are out of inventory.
Looks like the nearest dealer to me just sold a base trim model.
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 21, 2022, 02:41:59 PM
From what I can see on Toyota's site, Highlander hybrids are out of inventory.
Looks like the nearest dealer to me just sold a base trim model.
Toyota is going to be hit the hardest by the supply chain difficulties. They are so inflexible with their standards, they'd rather not make cars than adapt.
I don't even see that the base trim has a power lift gate.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 21, 2022, 03:01:09 PM
Toyota is going to be hit the hardest by the supply chain difficulties. They are so inflexible with their standards, they'd rather not make cars than adapt.
They're lean, but good. They've avoided a lot of the shut downs compared to other OEMs. But yeah, you want find them cranking out countless Tundras to sit in a lot and wait for chips like Ford is doing :lol:
Quote from: MrH on June 22, 2022, 07:24:06 AM
They're lean, but good. They've avoided a lot of the shut downs compared to other OEMs. But yeah, you want find them cranking out countless Tundras to sit in a lot and wait for chips like Ford is doing :lol:
I think the reason they've avoided shutdowns as much is because they've been on top of their suppliers from the start; not as a reaction to events, but because that's what they do (having been subject to them for years).
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 21, 2022, 03:07:49 PM
I don't even see that the base trim has a power lift gate.
God forbid!
Unpopular opinion:
Power lift gates suck.
They just take too long. Its just another layer of complexity where its not needed.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 22, 2022, 10:58:08 AM
Unpopular opinion:
Power lift gates suck.
They just take too long. Its just another layer of complexity where its not needed.
I agree. They are too slow and complicated.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 22, 2022, 10:58:08 AM
Unpopular opinion:
Power lift gates suck.
They just take too long. Its just another layer of complexity where its not needed.
I'm with you. I interact with power liftgates from all brands/manufacturers and I have yet to use one I actually like. They're just another gimmick (for laziness) that people can't seem to live without now.
I'm glad I don't have one.
Some good struts that control the closing motion are good enough for me. An easy to close, yet hard to slam, liftgate is all I want.
I love love love the power liftgate.
And the new Sienna is hybrid:
https://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/sienna/2022
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 24, 2022, 05:02:51 AM
I love love love the power liftgate.
And the new Sienna is hybrid:
https://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/sienna/2022
Agreed. If you have an armful of kids & groceries it's super useful. We miss the kick action sensor the CR-V had.
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 24, 2022, 10:25:56 AM
Agreed. If you have an armful of kids & groceries it's super useful. We miss the kick action sensor the CR-V had.
I detailed a Buick something-CUV that had the kick action sensor...that was honestly neat and I could see that being useful when your hands are full. It even shined a Buick logo on the ground with an LED light in the area to wave your foot. But I've also detailed vehicles that have the kick sensor where it was completely unresponsive. 😆
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 24, 2022, 05:02:51 AM
I love love love the power liftgate.
And the new Sienna is hybrid:
https://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/sienna/2022
Impressive fuel economy on such a big car!
I've appreciated the power lift gates on my past and present SUVs. They don't seem slow to open for me :huh: and I've never had one which electrically failed (although I haven't had the kick motion sensor ones). For smaller hatchback cars they seem unnecessary but for larger taller SUVs I'd want one.
I guess similar to my thinking regarding electric sliding doors for minivans. Just overall better to have it.
Quote from: Laconian on June 24, 2022, 02:44:25 PM
Impressive fuel economy on such a big car!
It's perfect for them in every respect.
What about a Honda Pilot? It's getting older but not a bad car, my wife's old pilot has a 2nd row captain's chair with a pretty roomy 3rd row. It's comfortable enough for long road trips with 6 people.
Quote from: NomisR on June 30, 2022, 02:21:43 PM
What about a Honda Pilot? It's getting older but not a bad car, my wife's old pilot has a 2nd row captain's chair with a pretty roomy 3rd row. It's comfortable enough for long road trips with 6 people.
I haven't been in the newer Honda Pilots but we have a 2011. We really like the car for daily duty but there is not much room for storage if you are using all three rows. I would be surprised if you could get a modern baby stroller in there without folding down part of the back row.
Most 3 row SUVs don't have a lot of room behind the third row unless you go really big and long like a Chevy Suburban. In terms of 3 row SUVs which give you the best combination of size and fuel economy, I can't think of anything that tops a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. The luxury make plug in hybrids are all a lot more expensive.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 19, 2022, 06:05:47 PM
Ford Explorer, Chevy Traverse. Both are relatively fuel efficient for their size, 2nd-row captains chairs, split-folding 3rd row to maximize cargo space if/when a 3rd row seat is needed. May be more readily available than a Highlander, but I do not know.
I think my nephew and his wife have a Chevy Traverse. They have 4 kids and it seems to work for them.
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 19, 2022, 09:01:24 PM
Thanks. I'll throw the suggestions out there. Resistance to uncool minivans is high unfortunately. Left brain does not always win. If it were me I'd call a dealer, tell them to ta ke a $5k deposit on my card for a mid trim minivan and buy when it comes in. Trailing around from dealer to dealer is miserable. They are all good. I wouldn't bother with test drives.
They have done this... put down deposits to get in the queues with three different dealers in the Bay Area for a mid-upper trim Highlander Hybrid w/ 2nd-row captain's chairs. They'll take whatever comes in first and I'm sure will end up paying above top sticker.
The days of test drives and dickering over the price tag are gone for now.
I saw a brand new Tahoe today. ANY minivan has more ground clearance than the rear suspension on that thing.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 08, 2022, 06:59:49 PM
I saw a brand new Tahoe today. ANY minivan has more ground clearance than the rear suspension on that thing.
Yeah. Why they had to turn it from a real truck wagon into a mega fat car, I don't know. I thought that's what the Traverse was for.
I've read the new independent rear suspensions on the new crop of Tahoes/Yukons have mega improved ride comfort, on road handling, and rear seat room all of which 99% of owners care more about over slightly less ability to do rock climbing.
Quote from: veeman on July 09, 2022, 09:58:55 AM
I've read the new independent rear suspensions on the new crop of Tahoes/Yukons have mega improved ride comfort, on road handling, and rear seat room all of which 99% of owners care more about over slightly less ability to do rock climbing.
Oh, I'm sure.
People are dumb.
The problem with making cars that most people want is that eventually it would make all cars the same.
Quote from: veeman on July 09, 2022, 09:58:55 AM
I've read the new independent rear suspensions on the new crop of Tahoes/Yukons have mega improved ride comfort, on road handling, and rear seat room all of which 99% of owners care more about over slightly less ability to do rock climbing.
Yeah, but low capability, low durability, and high maintenance costs are not desirable in TRUCKY TRUCKS. If you want comfort and handling, there are eighty-five crossovers to choose from.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on July 09, 2022, 03:02:02 PM
Yeah, but low capability, low durability, and high maintenance costs are not desirable in TRUCKY TRUCKS. If you want comfort and handling, there are eighty-five crossovers to choose from.
I know, I know. But honestly the Tahoe/Yukons aren't used for rock climbing/sand dune hopping outside of maybe the Middle East. Maybe.
People buy them because they're great highway cruisers and they can get you to any ski lodge, hiking trail, or beach house you want to go to. GM isn't going to mess with the success of their cash cow.
Maintenance cost? This car starts at $50 grand for a stripped down fleet version.
Quote from: veeman on July 09, 2022, 04:36:10 PM
I know, I know. But honestly the Tahoe/Yukons aren't used for rock climbing/sand dune hopping outside of maybe the Middle East. Maybe.
People buy them because they're great highway cruisers and they can get you to any ski lodge, hiking trail, or beach house you want to go to. GM isn't going to mess with the success of their cash cow.
Maintenance cost? This car starts at $50 grand for a stripped down fleet version.
It starts at $50K because they made it all fancy with suspension and cup holders. :lol:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on July 09, 2022, 03:02:02 PM
Yeah, but low capability, low durability, and high maintenance costs are not desirable in TRUCKY TRUCKS. If you want comfort and handling, there are eighty-five crossovers to choose from.
This is where the 4-Runner comes in - some level of creature comfort in a vehicle that can take a bit of a beating. But it's a small market segment. The Toyota Fortuner (a HiLux w/ SUV body) sells overseas, & other manufacturers have equivalents. But they're too rude & crude for the US.
Quote from: Morris Minor on July 10, 2022, 06:50:22 AM
This is where the 4-Runner comes in - some level of creature comfort in a vehicle that can take a bit of a beating. But it's a small market segment. The Toyota Fortuner (a HiLux w/ SUV body) sells overseas, & other manufacturers have equivalents. But they're too rude & crude for the US.
We demand that our gigantic people haulers ride like couches here.
Quote from: Morris Minor on July 10, 2022, 06:50:22 AM
This is where the 4-Runner comes in - some level of creature comfort in a vehicle that can take a bit of a beating. But it's a small market segment. The Toyota Fortuner (a HiLux w/ SUV body) sells overseas, & other manufacturers have equivalents. But they're too rude & crude for the US.
I love the 4Runner but it's not ideal for a family with 3 kids, esp if they are still carseat and stroller ages. 4Runner is best as a 2 row or occasional 3rd row use.
Quote from: Lebowski on July 10, 2022, 03:23:33 PM
I love the 4Runner but it's not ideal for a family with 3 kids, esp if they are still carseat and stroller ages. 4Runner is best as a 2 row or occasional 3rd row use.
Truth.
The Sienna is best van.
Quote from: Lebowski on July 10, 2022, 03:23:33 PM
I love the 4Runner but it's not ideal for a family with 3 kids, esp if they are still carseat and stroller ages. 4Runner is best as a 2 row or occasional 3rd row use.
Is it raised up, "stadium seat" style?
Quote from: Laconian on July 10, 2022, 08:57:05 PM
Is it raised up, "stadium seat" style?
I don't think so, but I don't have the third row.
The third row in the 4Runner is comically small. It's for tiny kids only, and even then, for short trips.
Quote from: Laconian on July 10, 2022, 08:57:05 PM
Is it raised up, "stadium seat" style?
Yeah, the 3rd row sits up slightly higher. So you get shorter seatbacks and knees in your chest.
(https://di-uploads-pod10.dealerinspire.com/toyotaofcedarpark/uploads/2022/03/2022-Toyota-4Runner-seating-social.jpeg)
Keep in mind, the floor is about 3 inches below the bottom seat cushion there too :lol:
It's really bad. I took a road trip in it with 5 adults once. My friend took the third row, and she's maybe 5'4", 110 lbs? She was miserable. 2, 6-year olds were fine back there for a 10 minute trip. That's about it.
Always kinda surprised me they even bothered putting a 3rd row in the 4Runner. But, I guess for those once-in-a-while cases (running an extra kid or two to soccer practice, or whatever), it comes in handy. And they fold totally flat, so cargo area isn't affected when not in use.
Much better now than previous generations with the "jump seats" for the 3rd row that just sucked up cargo space unless you completely removed them, and also gave you an epic blind spot.
(https://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachments/general-discussions/43420d1303942813-3rd-row-finally-cimg1375-jpg)
Those side folding seats has always annoyed me about the land cruiser, as well. And I don't think there was an option to delete the third row until the heritage edition or whatever it was called.
Quote from: Lebowski on July 12, 2022, 01:04:23 PM
Those side folding seats has always annoyed me about the land cruiser, as well. And I don't think there was an option to delete the third row until the heritage edition or whatever it was called.
Ehh, you could remove them. It wasn't hard.
The cargo floor is So High in the back of the SUVs.
But my Odyssey has a crazy ton of room back there....
Car and Driver just wrote up the their long term test of the Sienna Hybrid. It was the most popular vehicle in their test stable: staffers falling over themselves to book it out for long weekends, road trips etc.
I tried. But son & DIL want a Highlander. :lol:
Quote from: Morris Minor on July 14, 2022, 06:05:01 AM
Car and Driver just wrote up the their long term test of the Sienna Hybrid. It was the most popular vehicle in their test stable: staffers falling over themselves to book it out for long weekends, road trips etc.
I tried. But son & DIL want a Highlander. :lol:
The series or the movie? There can be only one.
Dealers are calling them to say they have a few base trim Highlander hybrids in, but those won't work for them, especially in the 2nd row captain's chairs department.
Check out the interior space numbers
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/buy-a-toyota-sienna-not-a-highlander/
It looks like they're giving up on a Highlander hybrid; they're unobtainable in the trim they need. A used Sienna is on the agenda. Not sure whether it's a hybrid.
They plan a family of five, which is really only doable in a minivan or a Suburban.
My brother and his wife have the Sienna Hybrid minivan. They really like it. Ive been a passenger in it a couple times and it seems like a nice place to be driven.
Siennas are really nice. Spacious flat floor and relatively high ceiling do make it a nice place to be, like any minivan.
I guess there are only two minivans available these days...? Sienna and Grand Caravan? Funeral homes love the GC because it looks a little more stately.
I think Honda still makes the Odyssey. And Kia has the Carnival, that's a minivan tarted up to look almost-but-no-not-really like an SUV. :lol:
Ahhh yes, the Odyssey. Haven't seen a newer one of those around here. Never seen a Carnival IRL before.
The Carnival is handsome. Odyssey IMO drives nicer than Sienna- the steering in our Sienna was super disconnected (aka "easy to turn" for some people). But that hybrid! :wub:
This might work for them. Room for three kids, w/ captains chairs in Row 2. But without the shame-laden stigma of a minivan.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42779837/2024-toyota-grand-highlander-revealed/ (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42779837/2024-toyota-grand-highlander-revealed/)
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 24, 2023, 01:48:14 PM
This might work for them. Room for three kids, w/ captains chairs in Row 2. But without the shame-laden stigma of a minivan.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42779837/2024-toyota-grand-highlander-revealed/ (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42779837/2024-toyota-grand-highlander-revealed/)
Sienna behind 3rd row: 33.5 cuft
GH behind 3rd row: 21cuft
Sienna 3rd row stowed: 75cuft (5 passengers)
Sienna behind 1st row: 101cuft (2 passengers)
GH 2nd & 3rd row stowed: 98ft (2 passengers)
C&D says the smaller Highlander has 16cuft behind 3rd row, 84cuft with 2nd & 3rd rows stowed.
That Stigma (and a little less off-hardball-road capability) is counter-balanced by the magic of power sliding doors (which also allow MUCH better cargo loading, I've shoved a clothes washer into the side door of a minivan).
GH hybrid: up to 34mpg
Sienna hybrid: 35/35/36mpg (city/combined/hwy)
^^ All valid & sensible points. But Bay Area Millennials can't be seen in the Cheetos-stained minivans they remember from their childhoods.
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 25, 2023, 04:30:14 AM
^^ All valid & sensible points. But Bay Area Millennials can't be seen in the Cheetos-stained minivans they remember from their childhoods.
What if they are Takis stains, instead?
...they still haven't made a decision/gotten something? It's been like 8 months. lol
I would have succumbed to the minivan a long time ago.
Grand Highlander looks good for what it is though.
Using fueleconomy.gov a regular AWD Highlander costs $666 more a year to fuel than a hybrid Highlander. At California gas prices, it would probably cost $1000 more to fuel.
I used these data metrics to convince my brother in law and his wife to get a Hyundai Tucson at a slight discount over a non-discounted Hyundai Tucson hybrid (which wasn't even available). The Toyota hybrids are much better than the Hyundai hybrids however.
Quote from: MrH on February 27, 2023, 07:28:26 AM
I would have succumbed to the minivan a long time ago.
Grand Highlander looks good for what it is though.
I've noticed a lot of "car guys" are more likely to get a minivan these days. The alternative is a big crossover, which most people have realized isn't any cooler. Might as well have the practicality.
The utility is only one portion of it. They're also cheaper for the most part, but the killer feature is the sliding doors. Kids are too dumb to be trusted not to door ding everything to hell :lol:
Quote from: MrH on February 27, 2023, 09:54:19 AM
The utility is only one portion of it. They're also cheaper for the most part, but the killer feature is the sliding doors. Kids are too dumb to be trusted not to door ding everything to hell :lol:
I wish everyone had gullwing doors
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 26, 2023, 11:12:44 PM
...they still haven't made a decision/gotten something? It's been like 8 months. lol
Nope. They gave up. Got their deposits back from the dealers, and are still driving the Pilot I bought 21 years ago. Now with >200,000 miles on the clock.
Quote from: MrH on February 27, 2023, 07:28:26 AM
I would have succumbed to the minivan a long time ago.
Grand Highlander looks good for what it is though.
SUV is likely to have higher resale value. Would have to balance it all out.
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 27, 2023, 01:51:54 PM
Nope. They gave up. Got their deposits back from the dealers, and are still driving the Pilot I bought 21 years ago. Now with >200,000 miles on the clock.
The new pilot actually looks pretty good. Only real downside is fuel economy isn't great especially compared to the Highlander. Watched a savagegeese review of it the other day and they really liked it.
They are going to need something before too long. They have a 2-month-old baby, a toddler and are planning a third.
Just from a safety angle I want them to get something modern.
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 18, 2023, 05:09:41 AMThey are going to need something before too long. They have a 2-month-old baby, a toddler and are planning a third.
Just from a safety angle I want them to get something modern.
Minivan is still the superior option. Hybrids can now get pretty good gas mileage. Interior space and modularity in the minis is far superior compared to any of the 3row SUVs.
A top trim Sienna is what they want, with 2nd-row captains chairs. But they're Unobtainium.
The few that are around have dealer markups taking them into $75-80K territory.
If you need three baby/child seats the choice is either a top of the line minivan or a full-size heavyweight SUV.
There is no denying that child safety is important. In our immediately and extended family, there are four car seats in four different vehicles to haul around our 2 year old.
However, I can't help being reminded that me and my 2 brothers were hauled around in the back seat of a '38 Ford Humpback; No restraints and often with a couple of us laying in the rear window shelf.
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 21, 2023, 11:22:18 AMA top trim Sienna is what they want, with 2nd-row captains chairs. But they're Unobtainium.
The few that are around have dealer markups taking them into $75-80K territory.
If you need three baby/child seats the choice is either a top of the line minivan or a full-size heavyweight SUV.
$80 grand for an f'n Sienna? :confused:
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 21, 2023, 11:33:04 AMThere is no denying that child safety is important. In our immediately and extended family, there are four car seats in four different vehicles to haul around our 2 year old.
However, I can't help being reminded that me and my 2 brothers were hauled around in the back seat of a '38 Ford Humpback; No restraints and often with a couple of us laying in the rear window shelf.
Yup - I have equivalent memories. My granddaughters travel strapped-in-tight in rear-facing child seats. Five-point harnesses basically.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 21, 2023, 11:33:04 AMThere is no denying that child safety is important. In our immediately and extended family, there are four car seats in four different vehicles to haul around our 2 year old.
However, I can't help being reminded that me and my 2 brothers were hauled around in the back seat of a '38 Ford Humpback; No restraints and often with a couple of us laying in the rear window shelf.
I don't have any memories of being in a child car seat (born in 1990), so I imagine I was in normal seats or probably just a booster seat by the time I was 4-5 years old and started having car memories. Now it seems like it's law that kids are in car seats until they're damn near teenagers. :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 21, 2023, 03:20:11 PMI don't have any memories of being in a child car seat (born in 1990), so I imagine I was in normal seats or probably just a booster seat by the time I was 4-5 years old and started having car memories. Now it seems like it's law that kids are in car seats until they're damn near teenagers. :lol:
It pretty much is
Not only are they in seats longer, but the seats themselves are getting way more complex. Our big kid rode around in a floppy plastic thing we were able to flip in and out of cars in a whim (so we only ever had 1 between all the cars). Now they basically have a built in safety cage, weigh 20+ pounds, and are a massive pain in the balls to move from car to car (so we have 1 in both main cars mounted permanently).
I saw one study that partly blamed ever increasing safety rules like that on our falling birth rate. Too much hassle to have kids now
We definitely did use car seats when I was a kid. One of the few memories I have from when I was younger (under 10) is being in a car with my family and a door swinging open while marking a turn and I flew out of the car into the road. Luckily I got up and ran to the nearest curb/sidewalk before starting to bawl my eyes out.
Quote from: r0tor on June 21, 2023, 07:36:53 PMIt pretty much is
Not only are they in seats longer, but the seats themselves are getting way more complex. Our big kid rode around in a floppy plastic thing we were able to flip in and out of cars in a whim (so we only ever had 1 between all the cars). Now they basically have a built in safety cage, weigh 20+ pounds, and are a massive pain in the balls to move from car to car (so we have 1 in both main cars mounted permanently).
I hear ya. I've taken out/put in many a child seat with my detailing work. Most people are kind enough to remove them before bringing their vehicle to me, but some people don't, so I get to experience the joy of car seat parenthood once in a while.
Half the reason people with even just two kids are buying ever-larger vehicles is that the back seat in something like a Cherokee or Escape becomes incredibly cramped once you have one car seat in there, let alone two.
I'm surprised I've never seen built-in car seat concepts or prototypes from anyone. I guess minivan makers try to avoid that connotation and make the vans look cool instead.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 22, 2023, 08:13:21 AMI'm surprised I've never seen built-in car seat concepts or prototypes from anyone. I guess minivan makers try to avoid that connotation and make the vans look cool instead.
That could be a brilliant option- since seats are removable anyway you install the proper seat matching the kids' size then upgrade as they get bigger.
But no mom wants to put their kids in used/dirty stuff. The kids market is insane!
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 22, 2023, 08:13:21 AMI'm surprised I've never seen built-in car seat concepts or prototypes from anyone. I guess minivan makers try to avoid that connotation and make the vans look cool instead.
We had a 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan for 16 years that had 2 booster seats built into the 2nd row. The back cushion of the seat folded down to boost the child up and there were built in child harnesses. That van was great for the years that we had small children.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 22, 2023, 08:13:21 AMI'm surprised I've never seen built-in car seat concepts or prototypes from anyone. I guess minivan makers try to avoid that connotation and make the vans look cool instead.
Volvo does a built in booster seat... At least in the XC60 we test drove
I haven't seen those before, but booster seats make sense. Pretty easy to build in compared to a full car seat
My D-i-L found most cars are not wide enough to take the kids seats side-by-side. So she had to go shopping for the narrowest kids seats she could fine. And fore-aft space taken up by rear-facing seats is huge.
Car and Driver comparison-tested minivans a couple of issues back. Lots of stats on 0-60 times, top speeds, and lateral adhesion limits, but fuck all about how they measure up for the stuff we're talking about above.
I wonder what their writers do after the age of 16½.
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 23, 2023, 11:13:13 AMMy D-i-L found most cars are not wide enough to take the kids seats side-by-side. So she had to go shopping for the narrowest kids seats she could fine. And fore-aft space taken up by rear-facing seats is huge.
Car and Driver comparison-tested minivans a couple of issues back. Lots of stats on 0-60 times, top speeds, and lateral adhesion limits, but fuck all about how they measure up for the stuff we're talking about above.
I wonder what their writers do after the age of 16½.
Just get a crew cab Tundra. It's wide enough, trust me. :lol:
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 23, 2023, 11:13:13 AMMy D-i-L found most cars are not wide enough to take the kids seats side-by-side. So she had to go shopping for the narrowest kids seats she could fine. And fore-aft space taken up by rear-facing seats is huge.
Car and Driver comparison-tested minivans a couple of issues back. Lots of stats on 0-60 times, top speeds, and lateral adhesion limits, but fuck all about how they measure up for the stuff we're talking about above.
I wonder what their writers do after the age of 16½.
There actually is a gigantic difference in size of seats across the different brands... Gone are the days of Buy Buy Baby that would let you test fit them in your car until you found one that fits.
Helped someone moving houses.* Put lots and lots of stuff in the minivan and the outdoorsy stuff in the back of Mav to help out.
*Movers got all the big furniture. Single woman in her late 30s, with kids, her Mom/Dad were financing her life so she didn't have to work while kids are still young. 5 bedroom, 4bath house. TONS of expensive clothes in the closet. Parents lived in an even nicer house in one of the posh neighborhoods. He was retired Army, working great gov job.
Dad passed on 2 years ago suddenly from brain aneurysm. Apparently the money is not going as well, she downsized to a house about 40% as big, I think her mom is going to rent out the 1st house....
Bump. This is still unresolved and is now moving to the front burner because of a just-announced third child, due in late autumn. They're now talking about buying two minivans.