Supra manual

Started by r0tor, April 18, 2022, 07:29:33 AM

r0tor

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39734676/toyota-supra-manual-confirmed/

Not a whole lot of info yet, but this might be one of the last exciting (attainable) sports cars to be made.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Raza

That actually is exciting.

Though it's depressing to read that BMW's only manual cars left in the US are the M3 and M4. What happened? It's like watching lighthouses get turned off one by one. No more guiding light in the darkness of the automobile industry.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

Rich

QuoteThe six-speed manual gearbox will be offered for the 382-hp turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six, and the base 2.0-liter turbo-four will remain automatic-only.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39843195/2023-toyota-supra-manual/
2003 Mazda Miata 5MT; 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 4AT

SJ_GTI

Quote from: Rich on April 28, 2022, 09:28:22 AM
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39843195/2023-toyota-supra-manual/

That is surprising (to me anyway). I thought for sure they were going to offer it with the smaller engine only.

Rich

I see the manuels becoming the big buck ticket for OEMs.

Some predictions:
Currently: OEMs that currently sell Sports/sporty cars with manuels in the $50k-$150k range will drop manuels in all but big $$ cars (except for maybe the Miata/86?)

In 3-6 years: Porsche will remove a manuel on the 911, and will only include it with big ticket special editions (GT3, GTS, etc.)

6+ Years: OEMs that currently sell Sports/sporty cars with manuels in the $50k-$150k range will drop manuels, and cottage industry automakers (Singer, Gordon Murray, Pagani, Spyker, Morgan) will sell cars with a manuel at a much higher cost.
2003 Mazda Miata 5MT; 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 4AT

r0tor

Probably one of the most appealing enthusiast cars at the moment.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Rich

Quote from: r0tor on April 28, 2022, 11:07:06 AM
Probably one of the most appealing enthusiast cars at the moment.

I don't know since I haven't driven them, but I have a gut feeling the 86 has more steering feedback.  And no terbow lag.  it's front end also looks better.  YMMV
2003 Mazda Miata 5MT; 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 4AT

r0tor

Quote from: Rich on April 28, 2022, 01:12:29 PM
I don't know since I haven't driven them, but I have a gut feeling the 86 has more steering feedback.  And no terbow lag.  it's front end also looks better.  YMMV

86 is generally gutless and cheap feeling everywhere
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Rich

Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 06:38:08 AM
86 is generally gutless and cheap feeling everywhere

Different strokes for different folks.  If they were priced the same, I'd take the 86
2003 Mazda Miata 5MT; 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 4AT

MrH

I would take a Supra over an 86 for the same price.  But double the price?  Not worth it.

86 will be better at the important things to me: steering feel, weight, overall nimbleness.  Supra will be faster, but honestly, the gen 2 86 is plenty fast for street use.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

r0tor

By those definitions, most sports cars from the 90s and early 2000s would be a better choice
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

CaminoRacer

Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 09:58:49 AM
By those definitions, most sports cars from the 90s and early 2000s would be a better choice

Other than their age, lack of modern tech, warranty, etc

Gonna over pay for most 90s sports cars in like-new condition
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

SJ_GTI

#12
Honestly I like my old (designed in the 90's) sports car without all the modern tech and stuff. A GR86 (and of course the BMW Supra) would certainly outperform my car, but I still like it. Its kind of nice to not have all the electronics and features of new cars when driving just for fun.

If I had to replace my old sports car the Miata and GR86/BRZ would be top of the list (but like 80-90% sure it would be Miata).

Soup DeVille

Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 09:58:49 AM
By those definitions, most sports cars from the 90s and early 2000s would be a better choice

Yes, they would.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

r0tor

Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 29, 2022, 11:39:08 AM
Yes, they would.


They also all overheat after a few hard laps on a track and have brakes as resilient as ice cream... So is that what an enthusiast wants?
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Galaxy

Nissan Z also has a manual.

Soup DeVille

Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 11:49:27 AM
They also all overheat after a few hard laps on a track and have brakes as resilient as ice cream... So is that what an enthusiast wants?

Yes. If you want a race car, buy or build one. If you want a sports car, don't expect it to race.

And very few modern cars are much better by those standards anyways.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

r0tor

Most enthusiast grade modern cars can put up with track days.  Things like M cars, Porsche's, ect.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Soup DeVille

Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 01:21:20 PM
Most enthusiast grade modern cars can put up with track days.  Things like M cars, Porsche's, ect.

And most cars of the same grade could do so just as well 20 years ago.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

r0tor

Strongly disagree.  There have been massive gains in brake development, suspension, cooling, tires, ect that have resulted in improved cars.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Soup DeVille

Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 02:13:33 PM
Strongly disagree.  There have been massive gains in brake development, suspension, cooling, tires, ect that have resulted in improved cars.

Not really. The gains in brakes and tires have largely been in pads and of course, tires. There's been some improvement in shocks; most gains have actually been improvements in electronic driver's aids, which aren't really improvements in the actual design.

Of course any car going to a track day on 20 year old tires, brakes, and shocks is asking to have a bad time.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

r0tor

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Raza

Quote from: r0tor on May 19, 2022, 06:25:39 PM
Because I love me some supra

https://youtu.be/tNZ30cLKMno

I'm fast coming around to the Supra, it makes my heart hurt to see an automatic Mustang, but damn, the new Z looks fucking awesome from the side, rear, and rear 3/4. Front end is a bit blah, but stylistically, they have a winner.

Still, now that the Supra has a manual coming for the big engine, it might have become the most desirable car to me under $100K that's available new.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

giant_mtb

Quote from: r0tor on May 19, 2022, 06:25:39 PM
Because I love me some supra

https://youtu.be/tNZ30cLKMno

That was a really cool video. Never seen that channel before.

565

#24
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 21, 2022, 09:59:56 AM
That was a really cool video. Never seen that channel before.

Hagerty videos with Jason Cammisa are probably the best production value car videos on youtube right now.

Some good ones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7YqdGt19tw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXj7YZcsank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acSdPy38XKU

And some ones that don't have huge production value, but have a ton of info and research in them, with a great driving segment at the end with just the sounds and visuals of the car and no one talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKIYUGNNEWk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imsbLkTT9Ac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xatzi2Whnjo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quLmDySyO7k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vs2tdR-9C8


So much better than the typical, Doug Demuro, Rati's rides, Shmee crap that is on youtube.

CaminoRacer

Yeah Hagerty YouTube channel and their magazine are my favorite car content now. I don't care much about basic crap about new cars anymore, and they do a good job of talking about the emotions, culture, travel, history, etc
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Laconian

They're like the video equivalent of my 2003 evo magazines. They bring back some of the ache I had for cars and culture during my high school and college years.

Is evo any good anymore, or did it get hollowed out along with all the other magazine industry?
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

Raza

Quote from: Laconian on May 22, 2022, 07:55:19 PM
They're like the video equivalent of my 2003 evo magazines. They bring back some of the ache I had for cars and culture during my high school and college years.

Is evo any good anymore, or did it get hollowed out along with all the other magazine industry?

No idea. I used to love it. My monthly Evo used to be a huge highlight in college, but I haven't looked an Evo in years.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

Raza

Quote from: 565 on May 22, 2022, 02:49:47 PM
Hagerty videos with Jason Cammisa are probably the best production value car videos on youtube right now.

Some good ones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXj7YZcsank

Really puts into perspective how crazy electric power is. And yet, it's amazing how those cars have no appeal to me whatsoever and I'd set fire to them both (which I'm sure the Tesla will do to itself soon anyway) to get my hands on the M5.


Also, "Plaid"? Who looked at fabric designs and thought "Hmm, plaid is the one that evokes the image of speed"? Names are dumb. Tesla is dumb. Electric performance cars are dumb, I hate them.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

Soup DeVille

Quote from: Raza  on June 04, 2022, 06:02:15 AM
Really puts into perspective how crazy electric power is. And yet, it's amazing how those cars have no appeal to me whatsoever and I'd set fire to them both (which I'm sure the Tesla will do to itself soon anyway) to get my hands on the M5.


Also, "Plaid"? Who looked at fabric designs and thought "Hmm, plaid is the one that evokes the image of speed"? Names are dumb. Tesla is dumb. Electric performance cars are dumb, I hate them.

Why Plaid:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0

it doesn't make it less dumb.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator