God this Jason dude is so annoying. Anyways
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP5z2cJ5aqk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP5z2cJ5aqk)
Interesting review/comparison.
Wondering how the M2 would stack up to a Camaro, since the prices are not outrageously different. Obviously it would be slower in a straight line, but since it lapped the track faster than the M4 that likely means it could keep up with the Camaro.
Dinan S3 M235i Stage 3, 440 hp, full warranty, sleeper looks, about the same price as an M2.
http://autoweek.com/article/drive-reviews/first-drive-dinan-bmw-s3 (http://autoweek.com/article/drive-reviews/first-drive-dinan-bmw-s3)
Personally I would be happy with an M235i with a mechanical LSD, some Bilstein coilovers and an exhaust. It makes ~350 "no BS" crank HP out of the box... what more can be deployed on the street?
Cool that the M2 is basically the M4 was supposed to be. Weird shit like the seat alignment is a shame. Looks like we are kind of entering into another era of cost cutting, if we aren't already deep into it.
M2 and M4, those two monikers have been titillating drivers for decades.....
Seriously though, don't even know what these are anymore, is the M2 the old 135M????? Ahh, who gives a shit anyway.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 11, 2016, 07:23:59 AM
Personally I would be happy with an M235i with a mechanical LSD, some Bilstein coilovers and an exhaust. It makes ~350 "no BS" crank HP out of the box... what more can be deployed on the street?
Cool that the M2 is basically the M4 was supposed to be. Weird shit like the seat alignment is a shame. Looks like we are kind of entering into another era of cost cutting, if we aren't already deep into it.
Yep. The manual M235i convertible is one of my dream cars, and is plenty car for me.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 11, 2016, 07:29:52 AM
M2 and M4, those two monikers have been titillating drivers for decades.....
Seriously though, don't even know what these are anymore, is the M2 the old 135M????? Ahh, who gives a shit anyway.
Could be argued that the M2 is a step down from the 1M. 1M had the twin turbo engine, M2 makes do with the budget single turbo deal. Probably doesn't matter.... but maybe it does?
All I know is this is a thoroughly proper driving M car.
It makes zero sense to get an M235i over the M2 with the pricing you get in the US. M2 includes wider track, better suspension, uprated engine internals and LSD. Plus it has actual resale value over any moddddeeeddd M235i.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 11, 2016, 09:30:02 AM
It makes zero sense to get an M235i over the M2 with the pricing you get in the US. M2 includes wider track, better suspension, uprated engine internals and LSD. Plus it has actual resale value over any moddddeeeddd M235i.
That's true if it's owner supplied/installed mods, but Dinan is a recognized tuning house, like Alpina and Brabus. I expect a Dinan tuned M235i to hold its value as good or better than an M2.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 11, 2016, 09:30:02 AM
It makes zero sense to get an M235i over the M2 with the pricing you get in the US. M2 includes wider track, better suspension, uprated engine internals and LSD. Plus it has actual resale value over any moddddeeeddd M235i.
I think it depends. For me? Absolutely M2 is a better deal than trying to outfit a M235i with aftermarket upgrades to match the M2.
For others the more "cruiser" nature of a M235i might be preferred. Softer suspension settings, more laid back throttle response, sunroof, slushbox over DCT/Manual, etc...
IIRC the pricing on a up-spec'd M235i is pretty much in line with the M2 so it is hard to argue with what you get for M2 money.
Quote from: Rockraven on April 11, 2016, 09:53:13 AM
That's true if it's owner supplied/installed mods, but Dinan is a recognized tuning house, like Alpina and Brabus. I expect a Dinan tuned M235i to hold its value as good or better than an M2.
Its would also be more expensive unless you skipped a a lot options. M2 pretty much comes fully loaded.
SOP with modded cars = bring it back to stock before sale, deal with forum jockeys to ditch aftermarket parts. No big deal.
Price thing may still be valid but I'm waiting for the BMWUSA.com comparison to pop up... I think prices have changed from that order sheet MCM posted a while back. If that pricing is still in the ballpark then yea it's kind of a no brainer.
I am assuming the price sheet is accurate as well, but certainly if the M2 comes out more expensive that could change the math.
FWI, out of curiosity I spec'd an M235i on BMW's website. MSRP came out to $51,020 (including destination).
Base: 44,150
Paint: +550
Leather Seats: +1,450
Cold Weather package: +700
Tech package (Nav, etc...): +1,950
Bluetooth Integration: +350
HK Sound System: +875
Destination: +995
Another thing that makes the M235i strill worth consideration for some is also that is can come with AWD. I can see that being a tie breaker for many in the Northeast or Midwest.
Whoops, just realized the M2 is on BMW's website. Spec'd the way I want it:
Base: 51,700
Paint: +550
Destination: +995
Total: 53,245
Edited to add: Leather, Nav, Smartphone Integration, HK sound system, and heated seats all standard on the M2.
So a small price advantage for the M235i.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 11, 2016, 09:53:49 AM
I think it depends. For me? Absolutely M2 is a better deal than trying to outfit a M235i with aftermarket upgrades to match the M2.
For others the more "cruiser" nature of a M235i might be preferred. Softer suspension settings, more laid back throttle response, sunroof, slushbox over DCT/Manual, etc...
IIRC the pricing on a up-spec'd M235i is pretty much in line with the M2 so it is hard to argue with what you get for M2 money.
But the Dinan doesn't match the M2. It blows past it. 440 hp vs 365, plus equal or better suspension/performance upgrades, for about the same $ as the M2.
That being said, I have to agree with Hector... the M2 is a much better value than the M235i. Now if it came as a convertible... :wub:
Quote from: Rockraven on April 11, 2016, 10:30:27 AM
But the Dinan doesn't match the M2. It blows past it. 440 hp vs 365, plus equal or better suspension/performance upgrades, for about the same $ as the M2.
The M2 is a not very expensive tune away from that and would probably withstand it better because of the upgraded internals.
I do see the points above of wanting a softer suspension, AWD, or a droptop. In all those cases the M235i makes sense.
I like the presenter. :huh:
Kinda dumb that BMW doesn't let you turn off the throttle blipping individually. My car had that and I hated it so I had it removed, thankfully.
Even dumber is the crooked drivers seat. Sheesh.
NCs had auto Rev match?
Quote from: Cookie Monster on April 11, 2016, 09:48:12 PM
I like the presenter. :huh:
Kinda dumb that BMW doesn't let you turn off the throttle blipping individually. My car had that and I hated it so I had it removed, thankfully.
Even dumber is the crooked drivers seat. Sheesh.
I rented an M135i at Spa a year ago. I assume it has the same seat positioning issue as it's the same platform (not 100% sure). In any case I didn't notice anything unusual with it. I guess it's something that you probably wouldn't ever notice unless you were told.
Quote from: MX793 on April 12, 2016, 04:40:17 AM
NCs had auto Rev match?
Aftermarket tune came with it. I had it turned off after I tried it.
Wait, these cars have auto-rev match?
Disqualified.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on April 12, 2016, 09:46:46 AM
Aftermarket tune came with it. I had it turned off after I tried it.
How did it know what gear you were going to? Did it come with a shift sensor?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 12, 2016, 10:33:13 AM
How did it know what gear you were going to? Did it come with a shift sensor?
If the car has a speed sensor on the transmission input, it could be done by comparing crank speed and transmission input speed once the gear was actually engaged.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 12, 2016, 10:33:13 AM
How did it know what gear you were going to? Did it come with a shift sensor?
I would imagine the ECU knows what gear you're going into? I played with it on track under braking only, so I'm not sure if it'd work if you downshifted to accelerate. It was a weird feeling just hitting the brakes, clutching in and going into a lower gear. As soon as you let the clutch out it'd blip the revs up. It didn't work all the time, either (couldn't get it to work well on the street) so I had it turned off. I spent a long time learning how to heel-toe anyways and didn't want some automatic system that didn't work all the time trying to do it for me.
I need to get a stick for my Forza rig. I still don't know how to heel toe.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 12, 2016, 10:43:01 AM
I need to get a stick for my Forza rig. I still don't know how to heel toe.
It's difficult to even find a car that has a decent set of pedals to practice it in real life.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 12, 2016, 12:43:34 PM
It's difficult to even find a car that has a decent set of pedals to practice it in real life.
I can do it in most cars I've driven. :huh:
Couldn't do it in the 4Runner, but I've done it in my NC, RX8, NB, my dad's G37, E39 M5, E30, etc.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 12, 2016, 10:43:01 AM
I need to get a stick for my Forza rig. I still don't know how to heel toe.
I just learned how to do it in my car.
I could downshift while left foot braking in my Mazda.
I rev match all downshifts (frequently double clutch, mostly out of habit) and frequently heel-toe in daily driving.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on April 12, 2016, 12:46:09 PM
I can do it in most cars I've driven. :huh:
Couldn't do it in the 4Runner, but I've done it in my NC, RX8, NB, my dad's G37, E39 M5, E30, etc.
My heel usually hits the tunnel before the gas pedal. So unless the pedals are close enough that I can get the gas with the side of my foot (Lotus Elise, for example), I'm out of luck.
Quote from: MX793 on April 12, 2016, 12:56:02 PM
I could downshift while left foot braking in my Mazda.
I rev match all downshifts (frequently double clutch, mostly out of habit) and frequently heel-toe in daily driving.
I rev match and will double clutch in my dad's VW or when I go into first gear in the El Camino. Heel-toeing on the street seems pretty aggressive though. :lol:
I use the left side of my foot on the brake and right side on the gas. I have big feet so I can generally reach most pedals. The NC's are placed really well, though, or I just got used to it.
Quote from: MX793 on April 12, 2016, 12:56:02 PM
I could downshift while left foot braking in my Mazda.
I rev match all downshifts (frequently double clutch, mostly out of habit) and frequently heel-toe in daily driving.
How do you use the clutch while left foot braking :confused:
I have become a big fan of left foot braking, at least in Forza. Kind of a manual traction control... def keeps the cars settled. In real life not so much :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 12, 2016, 02:20:23 PM
How do you use the clutch while left foot braking :confused:
I have become a big fan of left foot braking, at least in Forza. Kind of a manual traction control... def keeps the cars settled. In real life not so much :lol:
You don't. It wasn't something I did regularly because it required more concentration than I cared to commit to do it right, and I probably couldn't do it well under duress like in a 10/10ths racing scenario, but I could do it.
Am I the only one who heel toes the proper way? Toe on the brake, heel hitting the throttle?
Quote from: MrH on April 12, 2016, 02:55:05 PM
Am I the only one who heel toes the proper way? Toe on the brake, heel hitting the throttle?
I have trouble doing it that way. Not sure if it's me or just the way the pedals are in my cars, but I find it much easier to put the left side of my foot on the brake and roll the right side into the throttle.
Quote from: MrH on April 12, 2016, 02:55:05 PM
Am I the only one who heel toes the proper way? Toe on the brake, heel hitting the throttle?
It's not like that's the only "right" way... any way that you can downshift smoothly while braking is the right way. :huh:
And in certain cars where the gas pedal is far from the brake I'll swing my heel out more to hit the gas.
I blip the throttle with the side of my foot.
Wow. So, who buys an M4 now? I get the M3 more. You get a usable sedan too.
But same performance and better looks in the M2 for substantially cheaper seems like a no brainer to me. Also, a Camaro SS seems to be a better cheaper option too.
Quote from: MrH on April 12, 2016, 07:29:57 PM
Also, a Camaro SS seems to be a better cheaper option too.
something something can't see out of the windows blahblahblah
Well, you're stuck staring at the driver side A-pillar in the M2. I call it a draw :lol:
Quote from: MrH on April 12, 2016, 07:29:57 PM
Wow. So, who buys an M4 now? I get the M3 more. You get a usable sedan too.
But same performance and better looks in the M2 for substantially cheaper seems like a no brainer to me. Also, a Camaro SS seems to be a better cheaper option too.
I think you are the first person I've heard say the M2 looks better
M2 comes with leather standard too whereas the M4 does not :wtf:
The speed cloth is dope though.
BMW: the ultimate marketing machine :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 13, 2016, 04:36:13 AM
I think you are the first person I've heard say the M2 looks better
M2 comes with leather standard too whereas the M4 does not :wtf:
I think the M2 looks better too.
Yeah I think the M2 looks better as well.
I mean, they're both kind of ugly, hard to choose between the two.
4 series is such a big car, but not in a cool Aston Martin DB9 way.... more like a Camry Solara way. There are a few at my job and I'm always like "wow that is a big car"
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 13, 2016, 12:01:04 PM
4 series is such a big car, but not in a cool Aston Martin DB9 way.... more like a Camry Solara way. There are a few at my job and I'm always like "wow that is a big car"
It's not quite the Solara, but I get where you're coming from. I thought it was just me, since I drive such a small car.
4 def looks better but I'd take the 2 every day
Quote from: Raza on April 13, 2016, 10:23:10 AM
I mean, they're both kind of ugly, hard to choose between the two.
So this is an attractive car
(http://www.vwvortex.com/albums/Volkswagen/Golf%20-%20GTI%20-%20Rabbit/Golf%20VII/Golf%207%20(EU)/volkswagen-golf7-vwvortex-018.jpg)
(and the cheesy BMW M replica quad exhaust)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/2013-golf-r-rear-1.jpg)
But this
(http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Violet-Blue-BMW-M4-18.jpg)
And this
(http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/366/187/0/S3661870/slug/l/2016-bmw-m2-01-1.jpg)
Aren't
Oh I get it, you like more feminine looking cars - Jettas, Passats, Audis, cars typically marketed towards women and clueless consumerist culture hipster 'men'
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/is-vws-target-audience-beta-males-or-alpha-females/ (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/is-vws-target-audience-beta-males-or-alpha-females/)
I vote to literally ban this guy.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 30, 2016, 02:05:15 PM
I vote to literally ban this guy.
Meh, I'd rather figuratively ban him.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 30, 2016, 02:05:15 PM
I vote to literally ban this guy.
Get over yourself, seriously.
I didn't even acknowledge your existence until recently, and yet you made a habit out of follow my post around complaining that you didn't like the content.
Holy shit - I don't like the car you drive, after I complained about it a few months ago? STOP THE PRESSES.
I hate VW - wow what a revelation!
And of all the things I say and do, THIS is what you want to complain about? Me saying that VWs are marketed towards women and 'soft' men?
Quote from: Char on April 30, 2016, 02:54:47 PM
Get over yourself, seriously.
I didn't even acknowledge your existence until recently, and yet you made a habit out of follow my post around complaining that you didn't like the content.
Holy shit - I don't like the car you drive, after I complained about it a few months ago? STOP THE PRESSES.
I hate VW - wow what a revelation!
And of all the things I say and do, THIS is what you want to complain about? Me saying that VWs are marketed towards women and 'soft' men?
No, I'm just tired of you ruining every thread you enter, cuz your posts are dumb as fuck and add little to discussion.
You also insult and personally attack people all the time and it's annoying and ruins the fun of the forum.
Yea, its time we collectively stop responding to dude's posts. It's clear he's pumping himself up here because IRL he could fit in the trunk of an Alfa Romeo 4C, and could not compress a 500lb spring 1/8th of an inch in a soaking wet leather jacket. So he buys, drives, dyno tunes and internet trolls his way to manhood instead of actually being a man. I feel more sorry for him than anything, but ultimately giving him the attention he's begging for isn't going to help him, so we all need to ignore him for his own sake. Only then will he realize nobody cares about his four figure nearly 10 year old BMW and lack of pretty much anything else going on.
He makes me want to buy a VR6 Eos.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 30, 2016, 03:31:05 PM
No, I'm just tired of you ruining every thread you enter, cuz your posts are dumb as fuck and add little to discussion.
You also insult and personally attack people all the time and it's annoying and ruins the fun of the forum.
Like what you're doing RIGHT NOW?
I don't even know you, I don't care to know you or about you. It's literally a waste of bandwidth and my time to respond to how silly (Hypocritical AND ironic) these statements are. If I had the motivation (and I don't) I could go back through many threads and point out how you and the rest of the peanut gallery take my taste personally. I don't like your car, I don't like VW - move on with your life. Instead it becomes a personal matter, one that you have to defend tooth and nail, to the point of derailing a thread...like this one.
Notice I don't go following your post in every thread YOU make...because I don't care what you think.
:popcorn:
Quote from: Char on April 30, 2016, 04:08:31 PM
Like what you're doing RIGHT NOW?
I don't even know you, I don't care to know you or about you. It's literally a waste of bandwidth and my time to respond to how silly (Hypocritical AND ironic) these statements are. If I had the motivation (and I don't) I could go back through many threads and point out how you and the rest of the peanut gallery take my taste personally. I don't like your car, I don't like VW - move on with your life. Instead it becomes a personal matter, one that you have to defend tooth and nail, to the point of derailing a thread...like this one.
Notice I don't go following your post in every thread YOU make...because I don't care what you think.
See? A long ass tirade about not shit. You don't talk about shit and you don't add shit either.
Also, saying someone else's car is shit, and they're stupid for buying it IS a personal attack.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 30, 2016, 04:19:31 PM
See? A long ass tirade about not shit. You don't talk about shit and you don't add shit either.
Cool beans, like your comment of
Quote from: 2o6 on April 30, 2016, 02:05:15 PM
I vote to literally ban this guy.
Really added to the conversation. Carry on though, this is hilarious to watch.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 30, 2016, 04:22:14 PM
Also, saying someone else's car is shit, and they're stupid for buying it IS a personal attack.
Who did I call stupid
directly?
Oh my god, you're such a fucking troll. You reply to people with troll shit, then troll troll troll and insult when someone says anything about VW.
Calling Raza or anyone efminite for liking VW or wanting a Golf R? Dude come on. Then when someone calls you on your VW hate, you don't say much but a few anecdotes about things that are either out of date or some other shit.
It's annoying as fuck!
Quote from: 2o6 on April 30, 2016, 04:19:31 PM
See? A long ass tirade about not shit. You don't talk about shit and you don't add shit either.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 30, 2016, 04:26:49 PM
Oh my god, you're such a fucking troll. You reply to people with troll shit, then troll troll troll and insult when someone says anything about VW.
Calling Raza or anyone efminite for liking VW or wanting a Golf R? Dude come on. Then when someone calls you on your VW hate, you don't say much but a few anecdotes about things that are either out of date or some other shit.
It's annoying as fuck!
I'd say my work here is done...And to think the one time I attempted to say something nice about your work, you told me to fuck myself.
But I really want Raza to answer how a BASE VW Rabbit looks more attractive to him than a M2/4. And it could be that he likes effeminate cars, nothing wrong with that, it would at least explain his affinity towards VW.
As for your tastes, I have no explanation for.
Christ Jesus. Why the fuck do you post here?
Quote from: 2o6 on April 30, 2016, 04:32:09 PM
Christ Jesus. Why the fuck do you post here?
This, and why anyone should assign any value to his opinion, are questions he seems incapable of answering. If you're gonna be an opinionated prick, at least back your shit up. Anyone can spend $$$ and buy a car and get it dyno tuned a million times. That doesn't make him an authority on anything though.
Quote from: Char on April 30, 2016, 01:35:11 PM
So this is an attractive car
(http://www.vwvortex.com/albums/Volkswagen/Golf%20-%20GTI%20-%20Rabbit/Golf%20VII/Golf%207%20(EU)/volkswagen-golf7-vwvortex-018.jpg)
(and the cheesy BMW M replica quad exhaust)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/2013-golf-r-rear-1.jpg)
But this
(http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Violet-Blue-BMW-M4-18.jpg)
And this
(http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/366/187/0/S3661870/slug/l/2016-bmw-m2-01-1.jpg)
Aren't
Oh I get it, you like more feminine looking cars - Jettas, Passats, Audis, cars typically marketed towards women and clueless consumerist culture hipster 'men'
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/is-vws-target-audience-beta-males-or-alpha-females/ (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/is-vws-target-audience-beta-males-or-alpha-females/)
Lol. Keep trying.