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QuoteWith the All-New 2018 LS, Lexus Reimagines Global Flagship Sedan
Radical new design with coupe-like silhouette, yet spaciousness of prestige sedan
New platform for greatest-ever LS agility and comfort
All-new twin-turbo V6 with 415 horsepower
10-speed automatic transmission
All-new available Lexus Advanced Safety Package
New level of flagship luxury in every aspect
Interior inspired by traditional Japanese aesthetics
On sale in U.S. near the end of 2017
January 09, 2017
DETROIT, January 9, 2017 — It is possible that no single automobile has, upon introduction, upended its category as decisively as the first Lexus LS did when it launched the luxury brand 28 years ago. The 1990 LS 400 was the original luxury disruptor, winning critical acclaim and astonishing customers by setting new benchmarks for comfort, powertrain performance and smoothness, quietness, build quality, attention to detail, and dependability. The brand supported that groundbreaking vehicle by setting and maintaining new standards for customer service and satisfaction.
Now, Lexus is about to repeat history with the introduction of the all-new, fifth-generation LS flagship sedan for 2018, unveiled at the 2017 North American International Auto Show. Inside and out, the new LS reflects a strong, uniquely Japanese identity and approach to luxury. Yet, the LS was designed to be the brand's latest global citizen, available in about 90 countries.
"Not only will the LS symbolize the Lexus brand, it will become the definitive new-generation luxury car embodying Japanese tradition and culture," said Toshio Asahi, chief engineer for the new LS. "As such, this global pinnacle must go far beyond what the world expects from a luxury car."
Longer, Lower, Wider – and More Exciting
Longer and lower than the sedan it replaces, the all-new LS debuts a strikingly bold design with a coupe-like silhouette punctuated by the Lexus design language. A new driver-centric performance feel comes from building the LS on the company's all-new global architecture for luxury vehicles (GA–L). This premium rear-wheel drive platform, an extended version of the one used for the stunning new Lexus LC 500 coupe, will offer a more dynamic experience on the road while further elevating renowned Lexus comfort.
The original Lexus LS won acclaim by anticipating what luxury customers would want, rather than simply amplifying what established luxury automobile brands offered at the time. In that spirit, the 2018 LS sedan's spacious cabin, unique appointments and visionary technology will once again surprise customers by resetting expectations for a global flagship sedan.
"We set previously unheard of targets and resolutely pushed ahead towards these ambitious goals," said LS chief engineer, Asahi. "The customers who are going to want to own a Lexus flagship are already surrounded by luxury on a daily basis, people who have a sharp eye for authenticity to begin with. We wouldn't turn their heads with a conventional premium product."
A Flagship Reborn
Just as the original LS launched the Lexus brand, the all-new 2018 LS continues the brand's more dynamic direction. Each generation of LS sedans leading up to this iteration advanced luxury, craftsmanship, performance and safety in their own way, with the most recent also introducing a far more emotional design and engaging on-road performance.
To create the all-new LS, Lexus took the approach of starting from new, reimagining what a flagship sedan should be, as if launching the brand all over again. The goal was not to improve on what Lexus has done, but to exceed expectations of global luxury customers.
A common thread going through all LS models remains: Omotenashi, the concept of Japanese hospitality. Applied to a luxury automobile, it means taking care of the driver and passengers, anticipating their needs, attending to their comfort and helping to protect them from hazards.
Vehicle Dynamics
More than ever before, luxury sedan drivers demand greater handling agility and performance feel without sacrificing comfort. It's one of the most difficult balances to achieve in a vehicle, yet the new Lexus global architecture for luxury vehicles (GA–L) meets the challenge. The new platform debuted in the LC 500 coupe and now, with a longer wheelbase, underpins the new LS. To enhance center of gravity height and weight distribution, the new LS has a wide and low design.
The GA-L platform is the stiffest in Lexus history, setting the stage for enhanced handling, ride smoothness and cabin quietness. The 123-inch wheelbase is 1.3-inch longer than the current LS long-wheelbase model.
Helping to provide the uncanny ride and handling balance in the new LS is the latest generation of a chassis control technology known as Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM). This system implements cooperative control of all vehicle subsystems – braking, steering, powertrain, and suspension – to control basic longitudinal, lateral and vertical motion as well as yaw, roll and pitch. Optimal control of these motions helps to enable exceptional ride comfort, enhanced traction and safety and handling agility. Handling can be further enhanced by active stabilizer bars and the Lexus Dynamic Handling (LDH) System with independent front and rear steering. VDIM is capable of aiding stability when the car is traversing split-friction surfaces, such as dry pavement and ice.
In creating the new LS, engineers used lightweight materials including ultra-high tensile steel sheet and aluminum to carve over 200 pounds from the current LS platform and body. These savings, along with the implementation of the new V6 engine and enhanced body rigidity, allow for a more dynamic driving experience.
Critical to its driving performance, the new platform lowers the car's center of gravity by placing most of the mass, including the engine and the occupants, in a position more centralized and lower in the chassis. Special braces in the engine compartment, stiff aluminum front and rear suspension towers, and other features help bolster the strength of key chassis structures.
The LS has a history of outstanding suspension compliance, yet Lexus saw opportunity for new gains in this realm as well. For example, the multilink suspension employs double ball joints on the upper and lower control arms to help allow for control of the smallest movements from the driver inputs and road conditions. Beyond sharing workload, a dual ball joint arrangement helps optimize suspension geometry to increase wheel control and yield more precise steering response with better initial effort. To reduce unsprung weight and therefore aid agility and comfort, aluminum is used extensively in the suspension.
LS Performance and Smoothness Redefined: Twin-Turbo V6 and 10-Speed Transmission
For both high power and excellent fuel efficiency, Lexus designed an all-new 3.5-liter V6 engine specifically for the new LS with all-new twin turbos developed through the company's F1 technology. This new engine in the LS is indicative of the more dynamic approach being taken by Lexus, offering V8-level power without sacrificing fuel economy—all while minimizing noise and vibration. The new LS engine offers the output one would expect in a flagship sedan: 415 horsepower and 442 lb-ft of torque, sizeable gains over the current LS model's V8. The long stroke and optimized stroke-to-bore ratio contribute to high-speed combustion and the efficiency of the twin turbos, which assist the LS with a projected 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds (RWD).
Perhaps more critical is how Lexus tuned the engine and transmission to deliver instant acceleration and a constant buildup of torque toward the engine's redline.
A ladder frame structure in the cylinder block, redesigned engine mounts, electric wastegates and numerous other features help ensure the remarkable powertrain smoothness, a Lexus hallmark. The driver will be able to tailor powertrain response and feel by choosing from Normal to Sport to Sport+ modes, and just enough of the exhaust note can be heard to enhance the sporty feel.
The first-ever 10-speed automatic transmission for a premium passenger car, having already debuted in the Lexus LC 500, is also used in the new LS flagship sedan. It is a torque-converter automatic, yet with shift times that rival those of dual-clutch transmissions. The wide bandwidth afforded by ten closely spaced ratios is ideal for all forms of driving, helping to provide an optimal gear for all conditions.
Shifting via paddles is available, yet many will prefer the advanced electronic control system, which anticipates the driver's input. The system chooses the ideal ratio by monitoring the acceleration, braking and lateral-g forces.
For starting acceleration, the close ratios of the low gears and the shortened shift time enable a rhythmical and exhilarating acceleration feel. The high torque of the twin-turbo engine matches ideally with the higher gear ratios for effortless, serene highway cruising, yet very quick downshifts yield direct acceleration with no lag in G response.
Torque converter lock-up activates in all ranges except when starting off to provide a direct feel, while also supporting fuel efficiency.
Crafting a Unique Identity
"The LS is the flagship of the Lexus brand," said chief designer, Koichi Suga. "More than any other model, it embodies the history and image of Lexus and serves as a symbol for everything the brand stands for."
Following the "Yet" philosophy that has been passed on since the first-generation LS, Lexus created a design offering the room and comfort of a prestige "three-box" sedan, yet with the stylish silhouette of a four-door coupe that holds stronger appeal for younger luxury customers.
Lexus designers took full advantage of the new platform, with its lower profile and length on par with that of a prestige long-wheelbase sedan, to give the new LS a stretched, ground-hugging appearance. Compared to the current LS, the new model is about .6 inches lower, while the hood and trunk are approximately 1.2 inches and 1.6 inches lower, respectively. The new LS is the first Lexus sedan with a six- side window design. Also a first for a Lexus sedan, the flush-surface windows smoothly integrate with the side pillar.
To preserve headroom with the lower profile, the new LS features an outer slide-type moonroof. The unique rendition of the spindle grille mesh, with a texture that seemingly changes in different light, is the result of both intense CAD development and hand-adjusting thousands of individual surfaces.
The LS debuts five wheel designs, including two new 19- and three 20-inch wheel designs. The 20-inch premium wheels employ a brilliant appearance created using an electroplating technique known as sputtering. All but one of the wheel designs feature a hollow rim structure that helps reduce the resonance sound generated by the tires.
Progressive Comfort with Traditional Inspiration
Creating a new standard of flagship luxury is not simply a matter of adding more features. Inspired by the omotenashi principle, Lexus sought to instill the new LS cabin with luxury that welcomes and envelops the occupants while treating the driver like a partner.
"I suggest that you simply open the door and experience that immediate, intuitive sense that you're looking at an interior that is unlike any luxury car before," said chief designer Suga.
New seating designs, including available 28-way power front seats that feature heating, cooling and massage, exemplify this approach. The organically shaped dash design clusters information displays at uniform height to support the "seat-in-control" layout that emphasizes the driver's ability to operate all systems without the need to change posture.
While making the new LS even more of a driver's car, Lexus also lavished attention to the rear seat, developing a design that creates seamless, enveloping continuity between the trim and seatbacks for passenger egress.
Options for heating, cooling and massage make the rear seat a welcoming environment. The available power front and rear seat with Shiatsu massage and a raised ottoman, part of a wider rear seat luxury package, offers the most legroom of any previous-generation LS. In addition, the seat behind the front passenger in this optional package can be reclined up to 48 degrees, and can be raised up to 24 degrees to help assist the rear-seat passenger in exiting the vehicle.
Because the new LS is lower than previous versions, Lexus, for the first time, equipped the available air suspension with an access function. Activated by unlocking the car with the smart key, access mode automatically raises the vehicle and opens the seat bolsters to welcome drivers behind the wheel.
The Intersection of Tradition and Technology
Lighting and attention to detail express a unique aesthetic in the LS. A new approach to creating trim elements again turned to Japanese culture, combining traditional Japanese aesthetic with advanced manufacturing techniques. This is reflected in signature touches, such as beautiful interior ambient lighting inspired by Japanese lanterns and armrests that appear to float next to the door panel.
Inspired by Shimamoku wood patterns, the new forms that combine the artistic combination of natural woodwork and application of Japan's sophisticated sliced wood and laser cutting manufacturing technologies can be seen in the new LS. New patterns include Art Wood Organic, Art Wood Herringbone, and Gray Sapele Wood with Aluminum. Compared to the straight-grain Shimamoku pattern, the new LS cross-grain is a larger pattern featuring bolder contrasts between light and dark, giving the wood a more vibrant appearance.
The Sounds of Near Silence – or Great Music
Lexus tuned the LS exhaust to convey a more authoritative tone, yet also designed the cabin to ensure utterly quiet cruising. New sound suppression methods further hush the environment compared to previous LS models. Active Noise Control quiets the cabin even more by detecting the sound of the engine coming into the vehicle and cancelling certain frequencies using antiphase sound from the audio speakers.
The serenity of the LS cabin provides an ideal stage for the standard premium audio system or the audiophile-worthy available 3D surround Mark Levinson audio package with in-ceiling array speakers. The package features a more inviting graphic user interface. Its next-generation remote touch is designed to mimic smartphone operation, also supporting handwritten input. In addition to its 12.3-inch wide navigation display, the LS can incorporate an optional 24-inch color heads-up display (HUD)—the largest in the world—that projects a variety of information onto the driver's forward view.
Advanced Safety Features and Driver Support
Structurally, the all-new Lexus LS offers a high degree of passive safety for occupant protection in collisions. Lexus has also equipped the LS with technologies that can possibly help prevent crashes from occurring or mitigate their effects.
The LS will feature the brand's Lexus Safety System + and offer the Advanced Safety Package, which features the world's first system with Intuitive Pedestrian Detection with Active Steering within the lane. With this system, if a pedestrian is detected in the lane ahead and a collision is imminent, the LS is designed to automatically brake and potentially steer around the person while staying in the lane. The available color HUD is utilized in alerting the driver.
That greenhouse is so weird
Quote from: 2o6 on January 09, 2017, 07:12:06 AM
That greenhouse is so weird
The hood/trunk/ets are all lower than before making for a taller looking greenhouse. I wonder how that 24" HUD looks...
24" HUD sounds awesome. Back when I worked in the interior world, I saw full windshield prototypes. That is going to be the coolest thing.
I really can't wait to poke around one of these. After spending almost 1/12 of this year in a loaded IS I really appreciate the build quality and confidence in reliability offered by Lexus.
And those Mark Levinson stereos are really fucking good.
Looks like a Buick Lacrosse
(https://s23.postimg.org/qkvy27ryj/2017_NAIAS_2018_Lexus_LS_500_003_C2_E95_A7_DD220_E7_D.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pvd5purev/)
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(https://s23.postimg.org/e3tvssm6j/2017_NAIAS_2018_Lexus_LS_500_010_14_E111_D33_F29_DE7.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8sez8303r/)
I love it
Kind of looks like an Infiniti body with the Lexus corporate front fascia to me.
I'd hit it.
Looks like there's a couple of 400lb heffers in the backseat with how that car is squatting.
I see Q70L. C pillar is too busy, which Toyota has been doing a lot of lately.
This will be no such disruptor as the original LS400, at least not with a TTV6.
Another Lexus that will age horribly.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2017, 07:53:49 AM
I see Q70L. C pillar is too busy, which Toyota has been doing a lot of lately.
First Lexus sedan with a 6 side window design ain't that neat!
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2017, 07:53:49 AM
I see Q70L. C pillar is too busy, which Toyota has been doing a lot of lately.
This will be no such disruptor as the original LS400, at least not with a TTV6.
It's impossible to disrupt like the original LS did... the game has moved sooooooo far forward, and to be totally honest this whole segment is irrelevant. I'm surprised they are still pouring money into it. This should have been a GS based crossover.
http://www.autoblog.com/2017/01/09/2018-lexus-ls-turbo-v6-redesign/#slide-4338542
Looks so good in those real life pics
Looks like it's going to sneeze.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on January 09, 2017, 10:19:50 AM
Looks like it's going to sneeze.
You SHUT your face this car rules
WTF. Improved MPGs via a regenerative krill-harvesting grill. Toyota's current designs are much too try-hard.
Love it except for those chrome wheels :hammerhead:
Quote from: MrH on January 09, 2017, 10:59:33 AM
Love it except for those chrome wheels :hammerhead:
MrH, your aversion to chrome is bordering on Char's aversion to VW :lol:
The backseat should probably have a version where you're able to seat 3. 4 seat sedan is pretty limiting compared with being able to seat 5 in a pinch for families. Looks good in pics but real life, it's limiting. Does any other luxury saloon outside of exotics only seat 2 in the back?
Quote from: veeman on January 09, 2017, 11:29:48 AM
The backseat should probably have a version where you're able to seat 3. 4 seat sedan is pretty limiting compared with being able to seat 5 in a pinch for families. Looks good in pics but real life, it's limiting. Does any other luxury saloon outside of exotics only seat 2 in the back?
They're only showing the maxed out version. The base car will have three wide seating in the rear
Quote from: veeman on January 09, 2017, 11:25:41 AM
MrH, your aversion to chrome is bordering on Char's aversion to VW :lol:
:lol: chrome wheels are like my kryptonite. I think it's because my Mazda Protege5 had chrome 5 spokes. I hated those wheels, but was always too broke to do anything about it. I looked at those wheels for like 6 years. I will always hate chrome wheels and 5 spoke wheels.
S2k has 5 spokes. Better sell it to me for $20 so you don't have to bear the sight of them anymore
I've generally liked the new Lexus design language, but it doesn't really translate to a car this size. I'm not a fan.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 09, 2017, 08:20:46 AM
It's impossible to disrupt like the original LS did... the game has moved sooooooo far forward, and to be totally honest this whole segment is irrelevant. I'm surprised they are still pouring money into it. This should have been a GS based crossover.
I'm starting to feel the same way! They all are soooooo boring!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on January 09, 2017, 06:36:30 PM
I'm starting to feel the same way! They all are soooooo boring!
I really only know one person in my age group that owns a large luxury sedan (he recently leased a 7 series, a 750i, I think), but he does a fair bit of driving he can expense through work and he has three kids. My brother, for example, can afford one of these types of cars, but the thought of owning something bigger than a midsize is a hurdle he can't jump mentally.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 09, 2017, 06:02:10 PM
S2k has 5 spokes. Better sell it to me for $20 so you don't have to bear the sight of them anymore
You want my ap1 wheels?
(http://i.imgur.com/hHQAecp.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QKEAf0X8xcg/WHOY8VUYOhI/AAAAAAASUok/jksFOy5YCyMcZIusOj6axwActVkpncZfwCLcB/s1600/LS-155.jpg)
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-us_ZP2pgPbo/WHOYZmujcOI/AAAAAAASUm8/8P6iMdmLnM8cXWG-SSwXak_AqeCTat4xgCLcB/s1600/Lexus-LS-18-3.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nOEK_GsTGOw/WHOYc57BkhI/AAAAAAASUoY/YgIp-jWi8XspCMplMtvF-OpK2WtmAc6MQCLcB/s1600/Lexus-LS-18-5.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jQN4a7FkZdw/WHOYby59e6I/AAAAAAASUoQ/2f7rFRRh5gMWR7X2wzOz-b1Jn8R5yYJ_wCLcB/s1600/Lexus-LS-18-8.jpg)
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Looks like even the front passenger seat has an extendable leg rest?
This car is bomb AF
Quote from: 68_427 on January 10, 2017, 05:54:43 AM
Gonna run adapters?
??? No, they fit. 5x114.3, just like the brz. Offset and everything is good too. Only issue is front fender clearance. They're a bit wide for the S2000. Just need to do a slight fender roll
Quote from: MrH on January 10, 2017, 06:00:31 AM
??? No, they fit. 5x114.3, just like the brz. Offset and everything is good too. Only issue is front fender clearance. They're a bit wide for the S2000. Just need to do a slight fender roll
EZ fix
(http://speedhunters-wp-production.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/CNG_1029.jpg)
Regarding new LS..... I can't unsee this. Just put your thumb over the bumper. Personally I like the Buick more
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QKEAf0X8xcg/WHOY8VUYOhI/AAAAAAASUok/jksFOy5YCyMcZIusOj6axwActVkpncZfwCLcB/s1600/LS-155.jpg)
(http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/10/2016/08/2017-Buick-LaCrosse-front-side.jpg)
Quote from: MrH on January 10, 2017, 06:00:31 AM
??? No, they fit. 5x114.3, just like the brz. Offset and everything is good too. Only issue is front fender clearance. They're a bit wide for the S2000. Just need to do a slight fender roll
BRZ is 5x100
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 10, 2017, 06:17:44 AM
EZ fix
(http://speedhunters-wp-production.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/CNG_1029.jpg)
Regarding new LS..... I can't unsee this. Just put your thumb over the bumper. Personally I like the Buick more
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QKEAf0X8xcg/WHOY8VUYOhI/AAAAAAASUok/jksFOy5YCyMcZIusOj6axwActVkpncZfwCLcB/s1600/LS-155.jpg)
(http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/10/2016/08/2017-Buick-LaCrosse-front-side.jpg)
In the real life pics the LS looks 10x more expensive
Quote from: 68_427 on January 10, 2017, 06:39:28 AM
BRZ is 5x100
:cry: Holy shit, you're right. I'm a sad panda.
Quote from: MrH on January 10, 2017, 07:12:32 AM
:cry: Holy shit, you're right. I'm a sad panda.
re-drill?
ITT: Where dreams go to die
I, for one, love the individuality and apologetically Japanese feel that modern Lexuses are putting out. I think Cadillac is trying to chase BMW and MB and their brand identity is lost.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 10, 2017, 07:47:51 AM
I think Cadillac is trying to chase BMW and MB and their brand identity is lost.
Been saying this for years breh. People who want a BMW will buy a BMW... the lease rates are obscene right now. Lincoln has it 99% right with the new Continental (needs more flat screen + bucking of conventional layout in the dash).... I think America is ready for the return of the Fleetwood, but it's gotta be 110% right.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 10, 2017, 07:47:51 AM
I, for one, love the individuality and apologetically Japanese feel that modern Lexuses are putting out. I think Cadillac is trying to chase BMW and MB and their brand identity is lost.
Yeah, I'm loving the new Lexuses too.
I want this car sooo bad
It's a little busy for my tastes, but I'd rock it
I prefer the current one. I really hate the C pillar area, current one has a nice enough interior
Quote from: 2o6 on January 10, 2017, 07:47:51 AM
I, for one, love the individuality and apologetically Japanese feel that modern Lexuses are putting out. I think Cadillac is trying to chase BMW and MB and their brand identity is lost.
I think this new Lexus looks great but what makes it have a Japanese feel? When I think Japanese I think minimal, really low to the ground seating, asymmetric design using three points (ikebana), and vases with Japanese script and Geisha girls.
Quote from: veeman on January 10, 2017, 05:31:50 PM
I think this new Lexus looks great but what makes it have a Japanese feel? When I think Japanese I think minimal, really low to the ground seating, asymmetric design using three points (ikebana), and vases with Japanese script and Geisha girls.
The interior design is pure late 70s Marantz amp
Easily the best car in it's class. Nothing else will come close - but chrome is gross and those wheels look terrible.
Good thing there's 5 wheel designs
Quote from: veeman on January 10, 2017, 05:31:50 PM
I think this new Lexus looks great but what makes it have a Japanese feel? When I think Japanese I think minimal, really low to the ground seating, asymmetric design using three points (ikebana), and vases with Japanese script and Geisha girls.
That is what I was going to ask. The RX-7 concept with it's minimalist interior seems more Japanese to me.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 11, 2017, 11:22:10 AM
Good thing there's 5 wheel designs
Show me others, those look terrible.
Quote from: Char on January 11, 2017, 03:40:42 PM
Show me others, those look terrible.
We haven't seen hem yet, but the article states two 19" designs and three 20", with three of the designs (don't know which) having hollowed spokes designed to absorb energy from uneven surfaces and harsh bumps. I personally think the ones show would look better if they weren't chromed, but I don't really have a problem with them at all right now because I want to sex this car for some reason.
Although I am not a Lexus fan, the LS460/600h was handsome and elegant and totally inoffensive. This seems like an extremely radical departure from what LS buyers want and/or expect. The design seems bizarre to me, inside and out.
Does anyone else get the impression that this LS is confused? I mean it tries to be many things at the same time - very sporty and also very comfortable. Unless Lexus has figured out a way to setup a suspension in such a way to make this possible, I don't think this car can be very good at either. There will always be a trade-off and compromise to balance sport and comfort in a car. Obviously this is speculation because we have to wait what the reviews will say. Maybe the car can pull it off.
I've been reading some comments about the new LS online (not that this means anything since most people wouldn't buy one anyway) and the reactions are predominantly negative. Most reactions are criticizing the bizarre design and the lack of a V8. It's interesting how people are dismissing this impressive V6 because it lacks two extra cylinders. But in a way their comments are justified since the V8 seems like a must-have-option in the US luxury market.
By the way, here are some interesting comments about the new LS. In particular this part of the article stood out.
Do you think Lexus of old would have displayed its flagship model with terrible trim fitment? That's not even close to aligning, and it makes me sad. Of course, this is a pre-production model and not a definite indicator of finalized product, but either someone was rushing or didn't give a crap — or perhaps both.
So there it is, on display: Lexus LS trim fitment that's similar to a Ford Edge.
(http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/LS3-1.jpg)
Link: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/01/qotd-whats-your-take-on-this-new-sporty-lexus-ls/
I really hate that C pillar. Panamera does the same treatment a million times better.
I much prefer the sharp edged square shouldered current gen as well. In facelifted short wheelbase F-Sport trim it's up with the E65 7 series in terms of great full size luxury sedan designs for me.
I'm confused WRT the massive investment in this segment anyway from non Mercedes players (Lexus, BMW and Genesis have all come out with new entrants in the last 12 months).... the segment is in sales freefall; people are moving to more profitable and versatile luxury SUVs.
Auto journalists can walk it off a fuckin cliff complaining about fit and finish on a show car.
Show cars at auto shows are handmade, and usually arent designed to be sit in or really stroked. Materials aren't final. Things may not fit right.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 12, 2017, 07:19:36 AM
I really hate that C pillar. Panamera does the same treatment a million times better.
I much prefer the sharp edged square shouldered current gen as well. In facelifted short wheelbase F-Sport trim it's up with the E65 7 series in terms of great full size luxury sedan designs for me.
I'm confused WRT the massive investment in this segment anyway from non Mercedes players (Lexus, BMW and Genesis have all come out with new entrants in the last 12 months).... the segment is in sales freefall; people are moving to more profitable and versatile luxury SUVs.
The 7-series I don't think is all new, or didn't require as much investment as years past. The new 7 series is basically a long, restyled 5-series.
No the new 7 is based on the new carbon core architecture, like the upcoming 5 series?
Yea new 7 is really all new.
It's amorizised against the 5 series, is what I was getting at
Quote from: 2o6 on January 12, 2017, 10:27:48 AM
It's amorizised against the 5 series, is what I was getting at
That is tanking in sales too
X5/X6 is up though I guess.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 12, 2017, 07:38:55 AM
Auto journalists can walk it off a fuckin cliff complaining about fit and finish on a show car.
Show cars at auto shows are handmade, and usually arent designed to be sit in or really stroked. Materials aren't final. Things may not fit right.
The 7-series I don't think is all new, or didn't require as much investment as years past. The new 7 series is basically a long, restyled 5-series.
I don't think that misalignment would have made the cut for the LS400's 1990 debut...
The entire treatment looks a bit off...almost as if the entire treatment from the mid-rear door to the top of the kink is misaligned. It could be poor photography, but it doesn't look very good, even in press photos.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 12, 2017, 10:47:14 AM
That is tanking in sales too
X5/X6 is up though I guess.
....the 5-series is one of the top selling models in Germany. Shrinking market doesn't equal no market.
I'm still not loving the Predator front-end treatment:
(http://img.cinemablend.com/cb/4/b/6/d/c/1/4b6dc1b23f42aea34229462cd907c018818a51f0835676556a92ce28996996d8.jpg)
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 04, 2017, 06:35:46 AM
I'm still not loving the Predator front-end treatment:
(http://img.cinemablend.com/cb/4/b/6/d/c/1/4b6dc1b23f42aea34229462cd907c018818a51f0835676556a92ce28996996d8.jpg)
Reported
(http://icdn-8.motor1.com/images/mgl/YL3xW/s1/2018-lexus-ls-500h.jpg)
(http://icdn-9.motor1.com/images/mgl/4VKkY/s1/2018-lexus-ls-500h.jpg)
(http://icdn-9.motor1.com/images/mgl/MnO96/s1/2018-lexus-ls-500h.jpg)
(http://icdn-4.motor1.com/images/mgl/bNBbn/s1/2018-lexus-ls-500h.jpg)
(http://icdn-2.motor1.com/images/mgl/kLE7e/s1/2018-lexus-ls-500h.jpg)
(http://icdn-6.motor1.com/images/mgl/03KPk/s1/2018-lexus-ls-500h.jpg)
(http://icdn-2.motor1.com/images/mgl/WeMAj/s1/2018-lexus-ls-500h.jpg)
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QuoteWORLD PREMIERE OF THE ALL-NEW LEXUS LS 500H
The Geneva Motor Show hosts the world debut of the new Lexus LS 500h, the full hybrid version of Lexus' new flagship sedan.
The model, revealed soon after the premiere appearance of the twin-turbo petrol V6-powered LS 500 at the 2017 North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) in Detroit, is a further manifestation of how Lexus has reimagined the luxury sedan, presenting brave design, exhilarating performance and a sophisticated appeal to capture the imagination of forward-thinking, younger customers.
The car's design successfully brings together the virtues of a long-wheelbase four-door sedan with a low, coupe-like profile, positioning the LS perfectly across the two growing sedan and coupe segments.
The cabin has benefited from an equally new approach, focusing on "progressive comfort," interpreting Japanese aesthetics and craftsmanship traditions in the context of an advanced, luxurious and innovative vehicle interior such as the original door trim ornamentation. Notably the LS 500 was honoured at NAIAS with the EyesOn Design Award for excellence in interior design.
Conceived as the new global pinnacle of the Lexus brand, the LS goes beyond what the world expects from a luxury car. Chief Engineer Toshio Asahi explained: "Developing such a flagship model required a massive paradigm shift. Rather than being bound by the conventions that had defined luxury cars in the past, we aimed to create a car with innovative, emotional and sensual appeal that would draw customers' eyes away from other luxury cars and provide entirely new values."
The LS 500h is equipped with the new Lexus Multi Stage Hybrid System, a technology that transforms the performance and driver appeal of hybrid, providing improved responsiveness and more rewarding, linear acceleration, particularly when moving off from stationary. At the same time, the inherent fuel and emissions efficiency of Lexus Hybrid Drive has been further improved.
The powertrain features a 3.5-litre V6 Dual VVT-i V6 petrol engine and two electric motors, together delivering maximum system power of 354hp/264kW. While the LS 500 will be available in Europe exclusively as all-wheel drive model, the LS 500h will be introduced in both rear and all-wheel drive versions.
The LS 500h is built on the new Lexus Global Architecture – Luxury platform, which ensures a low centre of gravity and optimum weight distribution, contributing to the car's essential stability and handling agility, which in turn deliver increased driver rewards. The fundamental high rigidity of the chassis allows the new multilink suspension to be tuned to achieve a great handling performance and the supreme comfort for which the LS is renowned. In Europe, Adaptive Variable Suspension, with air suspension are a standard feature of higher specification models.
The car's dynamic performance benefits also from the co-ordination of braking, steering and stability systems through Lexus Dynamic Handling.
Advanced technologies are further used to deliver impressive safety performance. The LS 500h's Lexus Safety System+ package additionally includes a new advanced safety system, which features the world's first intuitive pedestrian detection function with active steering among other innovative technologies.
Omotenashi, expressing the unique sense of Japanese hospitality, defines the LS 500h's whisper-quiet and luxurious interior. Supreme comfort is provided by front and rear seats with multiple power adjustment, heating, cooling and massage functions. There is also an optional rear seat arrangement that includes an extending leg ottoman and the most generous leg room of any LS generation. Notably the new LS 500h is longer even than the current long wheelbase LS. The wheelbase increased from 3,090 mm to 3,125 mm.
Lexus Takumi craftsmanship also contributes to the special quality of the LS 500h's cabin, in luxurious new trims, materials and detailing, including a new pleating treatment and Kiriko glasswork on the inner door panels.
I'm in love
I'm guessing there will soon be some awesome deals to be had on the outgoing model. Intriguing proposition for those in the market for a rock-solid reliable sedan that would last 20 years. Perfect interstate wafting conveyance for retirees.
I really prefer the old one. The old one was 2 turbos away from perfection. Old one was a really gorgeous car as well. Really classic proportions, and great details aside from the grill.... though overall I prefer the facelifted one. But an LS460 would have trouble getting away from an Accord Sport at a stoplight (seriously) while burning 50% more gas. Doesn't add up
(http://www.lexus.com/concept/LS/img/gallery/Lexus-MY18-LSh-FCV-gallery-desktop-2000x1100-LS500h_17_stu_DH_2017.jpg)
QuoteLexus Takumi craftsmanship also contributes to the special quality of the LS 500h's cabin, in luxurious new trims, materials and detailing, including a new pleating treatment and Kiriko glasswork on the inner door panels.
Don't know how safe that is but I love it.
Quote from: Morris Minor on March 07, 2017, 01:51:00 PM
I'm guessing there will soon be some awesome deals to be had on the outgoing model. Intriguing proposition for those in the market for a rock-solid reliable sedan that would last 20 years. Perfect interstate wafting conveyance for retirees.
I dig the outgoing LS460. I like this quite a bit too.
Quote from: 68_427 on March 07, 2017, 11:06:33 PM
(http://www.lexus.com/concept/LS/img/gallery/Lexus-MY18-LSh-FCV-gallery-desktop-2000x1100-LS500h_17_stu_DH_2017.jpg)
Don't know how safe that is but I love it.
How does the door open?
Quote from: Rich on March 08, 2017, 02:41:39 PM
How does the door open?
https://youtu.be/klKA8YoNaao
Lexus panel gaps are just tighter than a booty hole
(http://icdn-9.motor1.com/images/mgl/MnO96/s1/2018-lexus-ls-500h.jpg)
Feels like Lexus is getting wise to MB's game WRT epic, swoopy interiors.
I'm just happy that it looks like the lux marques are seeing that materials makes luxury again and not all the electronic doodads
Quote from: Laconian on March 08, 2017, 03:38:11 PM
Feels like Lexus is getting wise to MB's game WRT epic, swoopy interiors.
Interiors are the only place regulators haven't strangled. All the manufacturers should be going nuts here. I like Lexus' current "vintage Marantz amp" interior language though. I hope they don't stray too far from that.
Quote from: Rich on March 08, 2017, 04:22:27 PM
I'm just happy that it looks like the lux marques are seeing that materials makes luxury again and not all the electronic doodads
All except BMW which is banking on doodads
(https://scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/17076021_254633621663667_3930656994448375808_n.jpg)
Wonder how they got that foil razor grill to pass pedestrian safety standards?
Quote from: 68_427 on March 10, 2017, 03:22:09 PM
(https://scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/17076021_254633621663667_3930656994448375808_n.jpg)
Sorry - not getting the love for that face. :lol:
http://youtu.be/VcgRaf38uCQ
Reported
Quote from: Rich on March 08, 2017, 04:22:27 PM
I'm just happy that it looks like the lux marques are seeing that materials makes luxury again and not all the electronic doodads
I agree. Hopefully the 80s fashion redux is almost over and we can progress into the 90s
Cloth makes it's return!
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-udtXH1Uw4S4/WOzF3XyPzfI/AAAAAAAAzSg/LZ1I9h1adJYaWlBzen7pCnX1eq3dIJufgCLcB/s1600/Lexus-LS500-FSport-08.jpg)
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Quote2018 Lexus LS 500 F SPORT Debuts in New York
•New F SPORT model offers the most engaging LS driving experience ever.
•Includes exclusive F SPORT design touches, 20-inch alloy wheels, 6-piston front and 4 piston rear brakes.
•Available Handling Package for LS 500 RWD F SPORT enhances dynamic feel with chassis tech from LC coupe and helps to underline the "sport" in F SPORT.
New York (April 11, 2017) -- Having debuted its reinvented flagship sedan earlier this year—the all-new 2018 LS 500—Lexus is putting an exclamation point on this signature model with the new F SPORT model. The LS 500 F SPORT, unveiled today and on display this week at the New York International Auto Show, moves the driving emotion needle even farther with handling enhancements and a performance-infused design outside and in.
The original luxury disruptor when it debuted to launch the brand, the Lexus LS has for nearly three decades set benchmarks for powertrain smoothness, ride quietness, craftsmanship, attention to detail, and long-term quality. The 2018 LS 500 will offer the most dynamic driving experience in the model's history; now it has the possibility of being enhanced further with the new F SPORT model.
Within the Lexus lineup, the F models, including GS F and RC F, are the track-tuned maximum performance machines. The F SPORT versions, meanwhile, imbue the standard models with a more engaging driving spirit through carefully applied chassis tuning and enhancements, while still emphasizing exceptional comfort. On the new LS, the F SPORT model will be available with gas and hybrid powertrains, and those choosing the RWD V6TT model will have the option of adding the F SPORT Handling Package to bring a level of liveliness never before seen on the flagship sedan.
F SPORT Look
Lexus designers didn't hold back when giving the LS 500 its coupe-like silhouette and dramatic rendition of the Lexus signature spindle grille that shows even greater intricacy in the design. Developing the F SPORT grille took computer-aided design (CAD) operators some five months to achieve the desired texture and interaction with light. Even then, they adjusted 7,100 individual surfaces to achieve the desired look and texture (compared to 5,000 for the standard model's grille). And when combined with the sporty enlarged side grille, it is functional as well, helping to maintain the vehicle's cooling performance.
The special F SPORT front grille, rocker panel, and trunk moldings accentuate the sedan's rakish profile, while F SPORT badging on fenders and exclusive 20-inch alloy wheels complete the exterior transformation. For those looking to really stand out, Ultra White is offered as an F SPORT-exclusive exterior color.
F SPORT Inside
As it did with the exterior, Lexus shifted the LS 500 cabin into F SPORT spec by applying trim and features exclusive to this version. A common thread through all LS models remains: Omotenashi, the concept of Japanese hospitality. Applied to the LS 500, it means taking care of the driver and passengers, anticipating their needs, attending to their comfort and helping to protect them from hazards. The F SPORT adds a performance attitude to the mix.
The F SPORT persona shines throughout the cabin, starting with the F SPORT-exclusive front seat, which provides enhanced support for dynamic driving. A perforated-grille pattern on seating surfaces and unique scored aluminum trim elements add additional sporty flair.
The driver faces a special F SPORT steering wheel as well as a speedometer and tachometer in a movable meter with a ring that slides to display information—a design adapted from the limited-production Lexus LFA supercar and a further expression of the car's dynamic intentions. Attention to detail shows in the aluminum accelerator, brake and footrest pedals, as well as the F SPORT perforated shift handle and footrest. Ultrasuede in the seats and headliner is the crowning touch. For those desiring the ultimate sporty look, a new Circuit Red interior is available exclusively on F SPORT models.
LS 500 Chassis Details
2018 LS F SPORT models feature the latest generation of the brand's advanced chassis control technology, Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM), which has been refined since its debut more than a decade ago.
In 2004, Lexus introduced the first integrated control system that combined the previously independent ABS, traction control, vehicle stability control, and EPS, as well as other functions, into a single system. In 2012, the brand adopted the four-wheel active steering integrated control system—known as Lexus Dynamic Handling, or LDH—from the GS for enhanced safety and driving performance that responds to the driver's intention.
The new VDIM system implements cooperative control of all vehicle subsystems – braking, steering, powertrain, and suspension – to control basic longitudinal, lateral and vertical motion as well as yaw, roll and pitch. Optimal control of these motions helps to enable exceptional ride comfort, enhanced traction and safety and handling agility, and allows for enriched flat vehicle posture during cornering as well as a more comfortable and stable ride overall.
Sporting Genes
The LS 500 is based on an extended version of the brand's premium global architecture for luxury vehicles (GA–L) platform from the new Lexus LC 500 coupe. The stiffest platform that Lexus has ever developed, GA-L sets the stage for enhanced handling, ride smoothness and cabin quietness. The LS F SPORT capitalizes on the platform's responsiveness and agility.
Equipping the LS 500 F SPORT with standard 20-inch wheels and 245/45RF20+ 275/40RF20 tires, (summer tires for RWD) along with larger front and rear brakes (6-piston calipers on front and 4 pistons on rear), unlocks more of the platform's intrinsic performance capability. Opting for the available F SPORT Handling Package (RWD gas model) equips the LS 500 F SPORT with Lexus Dynamic Handling (Variable Gear Ratio Steering and Active Rear Steering), Active Stabilizer, and sport-tuned air suspension with rapid height function. The result is a full-size premium luxury sedan that responds more like a sports coupe through curves, helping to underline what F SPORT stands for.
415-Horsepower Heart with a 10-Speed Partner
Lexus designed an all-new 3.5-liter V6 engine specifically for the new 2018 LS 500, using twin turbochargers developed through the company's F1 technology. This new twin-turbo V6 offers V8-level performance – 415 horsepower and 442 lb-ft of torque – paired with the first-ever 10-speed automatic transmission in luxury sedan.
The engine yields a broad torque curve and, perfectly in tune with the F SPORT spirit, the new engine and transmission deliver instant acceleration and a constant buildup of torque toward the vehicle's redline. The LS 500 is undeniably quick, with a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds (gas RWD). An electric wastegate is among the features that contribute to the engine's rapid responses. The driver can tailor powertrain response and feel by choosing from Normal, Sport S or Sport S+ modes, and just enough of the exhaust note is heard to enhance the sporty feel.
F SPORT Performance, Hybrid Efficiency
The LS 500h F SPORT infuses high efficiency into the sporting formula. The new Multi Stage Hybrid System combines a naturally aspirated Atkinson-cycle 3.5-liter V6 gasoline engine with two electric motor/generators and uses a compact, lightweight lithium-ion battery. The V6 engine uses D-4S direct fuel injection, and lightweight valvetrain components, with Dual VVT-i ensuring ample torque across the engine speed range. Combined system output is 354 hp.
The new system adapts the planetary-type continuously variable transmission from Lexus Hybrid Drive and also adds a unique four-speed automatic transmission. Working in concert, the two gearsets alter output in four stages to utilize the V6 engine across the entire speed range.
In manual mode, the two gearsets act together to provide the effect of 10 ratios, giving the LS 500h F SPORT an enhanced dynamic feel on the road and allowing the driver to shift through the ratios with paddle shifters. The Multi Stage Hybrid System allows for more electric assist at lower vehicle speeds. What's more, this system allows the RWD LS 500h to propel from 0-60 in 5.2 seconds – which is on par with the previous-generation V8-powered LS 460 and 3 /10th of a second faster than the AWD LS 600h.
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Lexus' passion for brave design, imaginative technology, and exhilarating performance enables the luxury lifestyle brand to create amazing experiences for its customers. Lexus began its journey in 1989 with two luxury sedans and a commitment to pursue perfection. Since then, Lexus has developed its lineup to meet the needs of global luxury customers in more than 90 countries. In the United States, Lexus vehicles are sold through 237 dealers offering a full lineup of luxury vehicles. With five models incorporating Lexus Hybrid Drive, Lexus is the luxury hybrid leader. Lexus also offers six F SPORT models and two F performance models. Lexus is committed to being a visionary brand that anticipates the future for luxury customers.
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Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 10, 2017, 06:17:44 AM
Regarding new LS..... I can't unsee this. Just put your thumb over the bumper. Personally I like the Buick more
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QKEAf0X8xcg/WHOY8VUYOhI/AAAAAAASUok/jksFOy5YCyMcZIusOj6axwActVkpncZfwCLcB/s1600/LS-155.jpg)
(http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/10/2016/08/2017-Buick-LaCrosse-front-side.jpg)
Can't unsee what? Those cars look nothing alike. :confused:
The new F-sport LS looks so good :wub:
The glass and rooflines looks similar, but the Buick loses it with bunch of tacky chrome details.
Lexus has that face though.... only tacky chrome I see on the Buick are those port holes. Even the wheels are very similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s2R44wst7E
Quote from: 68_427 on April 11, 2017, 10:29:48 PM
Cloth makes it's return!
I was wondering when that would happen, considering that many of the high end Italien luxury furniture makers have using cloth more and more in the last few years.
In Japan many high-end luxury cars come with simple cloth seats. Even the top-of-the-line Japanese luxury car itself, the Toyota Century, which is a car that was literally designed for the royal family, comes with simple cloth seats.
I don't see the appeal of leather seats. Between leather and fake leather I'd go for the fake leather - lasts longer and is easier to clean. But between leather/fake leather and cloth seats I will always go for cloth seats.
If I'm buying a used car, leather seats are less sketchy.
Leather is easier to care for, and easier to match should you have to replace it. Good leather will wear better than cloth, although cloth is generally more durable.
Cloth is probably a little easier to make comfortable, which is obviously a big factor to many. Also obviously, cloth doesn't have heat issues.
I prefer leather because it's easier to care for and looks better. I don't want to feel overly-comfortable behind the wheel; I want to be supported so my back doesn't ache, but I don't need some couch cushion lulling me to sleep. And ultimately I'd like a cup of coffee now and then without permanently staining the upholstery.
The designer of that grill doesn't have any sense of proportion. The oddball interior reminds me of a late 50's Cadillac.
Quote from: shp4man on June 07, 2017, 03:42:45 PM
The designer of that grill doesn't have any sense of proportion. The oddball interior reminds me of a late 50's Cadillac.
https://youtu.be/stNse8OjWIE
Quote from: Tave on June 07, 2017, 03:27:52 PM
Leather is easier to care for, and easier to match should you have to replace it. Good leather will wear better than cloth, although cloth is generally more durable.
Cloth is probably a little easier to make comfortable, which is obviously a big factor to many. Also obviously, cloth doesn't have heat issues.
I prefer leather because it's easier to care for and looks better. I don't want to feel overly-comfortable behind the wheel; I want to be supported so my back doesn't ache, but I don't need some couch cushion lulling me to sleep. And ultimately I'd like a cup of coffee now and then without permanently staining the upholstery.
Why does cloth automatically equal couch cushion? You can have some overstuffed leather seat from an early '00's Buick vs a hard cloth racing bucket seat. The material on the surface doesn't indicate how squishy it's going to be.
Cloth is just grippier and doesn't become uncomfortable to touch in extreme temperatures. I don't think the surface material has any bearing on the comfort. That's more a function of the shape and padding of the seat itself...
The black cloth seats I had in the Accord were mega, and I think they were specific to the V6 model (harder, more bolstering). I liked them better than the G37 seats.
IMO leather's sole saving grace is it can be easier to clean as it obviously doesn't hold stains and smells as easily. If you stay on top of cloth (periodic deep/steam cleaning), and get a dark (black) color, all in, I think cloth is better.
I would prefer a nice cloth or suede in the G. Anyone who has made skin to larger contact on a hot day can understand why
Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 07, 2017, 08:50:59 PM
Why does cloth automatically equal couch cushion? You can have some overstuffed leather seat from an early '00's Buick vs a hard cloth racing bucket seat. The material on the surface doesn't indicate how squishy it's going to be.
Cloth is just grippier and doesn't become uncomfortable to touch in extreme temperatures. I don't think the surface material has any bearing on the comfort. That's more a function of the shape and padding of the seat itself...
I'm talking generalities. Sure there are crappy hard cloth seats, as well as overly-plush leather, but on average automakers seem to have an easier go of it making comfortable seats out of cloth. It's a softer base with which to build out the padding.
Cloth gets really gross over time. I don't want to buy a car with years of someone else's farticles baked in.
I actually like Toyota's Softex better than real leather. It's much more durable and wears better than real leather. It's cooler, and softer. Really easy to clean. It's thermoplastic polyurethane based I believe. All the TPU based skins are so much nicer than the TPU or PVC based material. I wish the S2000 had it to be honest.
Quote from: MrH on June 08, 2017, 07:17:17 AM
Cloth gets really gross over time. I don't want to buy a car with years of someone else's farticles baked in.
I actually like Toyota's Softex better than real leather. It's much more durable and wears better than real leather. It's cooler, and softer. Really easy to clean. It's thermoplastic polyurethane based I believe. All the TPU based skins are so much nicer than the TPU or PVC based material. I wish the S2000 had it to be honest.
IIRC BMW's leatherette has generally been pretty nice as well. If it was perforated you could make a case that its better than leather (main issue with vinyl is breathability IMHO).
Quote from: SJ_GTI on June 08, 2017, 08:35:33 AM
IIRC BMW's leatherette has generally been pretty nice as well. If it was perforated you could make a case that its better than leather (main issue with vinyl is breathability IMHO).
Yeah, most PVCs are hot and sticky. The Toyota Softex actually breathes and wicks moisture away better than leather. It's great.
A lot of the people I detail for don't realize that their "leather" seats aren't leather at all.
Quote from: Tave on June 08, 2017, 05:38:08 AM
I'm talking generalities. Sure there are crappy hard cloth seats, as well as overly-plush leather, but on average automakers seem to have an easier go of it making comfortable seats out of cloth. It's a softer base with which to build out the padding.
I prefer my hard cloth fixed back racing seats to anything else.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 08, 2017, 12:44:38 PM
I prefer my hard cloth fixed back racing seats to anything else.
I've been debating a nice aluminum Kerky... People always complain about them but I sat in a friend's and thought it was fairly comfortable.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 08, 2017, 12:44:38 PM
I prefer my hard cloth fixed back racing seats to anything else.
Yea but you also prefer......
Rag also prefers...
Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 08, 2017, 12:44:38 PM
I prefer my hard cloth fixed back racing seats to anything else.
You could prefer a bicycle seat with attached handle-bar streamers, I thought this was a conversation about what manufacturers are doing with their stock interiors.
Quote from: Tave on June 09, 2017, 09:17:08 AM
You could prefer a bicycle seat with attached handle-bar streamers, I thought this was a conversation about what manufacturers are doing with their stock interiors.
You were saying there are crappy hard cloth seats, and I'm just saying that's what I like. :lol:
I still wouldn't agree with your statement that cloth is easier to build more comfortable seats out of. I still don't see what the surface choice has to do with padding or comfort. If cloth were really easier to make comfortable seats out of we wouldn't see leather option in otherwise cheap cars (Civic, etc). I guess only Mike would have some real insight into it but the surface material and the amount of padding or shape don't really seem correlated.
Cloth seats suck ass.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 09, 2017, 10:40:05 AM
You were saying there are crappy hard cloth seats, and I'm just saying that's what I like. :lol:
I still wouldn't agree with your statement that cloth is easier to build more comfortable seats out of. I still don't see what the surface choice has to do with padding or comfort. If cloth were really easier to make comfortable seats out of we wouldn't see leather option in otherwise cheap cars (Civic, etc). I guess only Mike would have some real insight into it but the surface material and the amount of padding or shape don't really seem correlated.
I think cloth, overall, is a bit more pliable/flexible than a standard (p)leather, especially at lower temperatures where leather gets stiff. The choice between cloth and leather seats is obviously mostly subjective and situational, so you won't hear me say one is better than the other, but I do believe the material choice can make a difference between the feel of the seat all else being equal.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 09, 2017, 10:40:05 AM
You were saying there are crappy hard cloth seats, and I'm just saying that's what I like. :lol:
I still wouldn't agree with your statement that cloth is easier to build more comfortable seats out of. I still don't see what the surface choice has to do with padding or comfort. If cloth were really easier to make comfortable seats out of we wouldn't see leather option in otherwise cheap cars (Civic, etc). I guess only Mike would have some real insight into it but the surface material and the amount of padding or shape don't really seem correlated.
The proliferation of leather (or faux leather) seating has nothing to do with comfort. First, leather is seen as "premium", so people buy it because it carries the connotation of luxury or "upscale". Second, it's much easier to clean if you spill something on it. Since most Americans like to eat while in their car, and those with spill-prone little tykes almost certain will have food and drink in the car, a surface that you can simply wipe clean with a damp cloth is a huge plus. It also tends to hold up better. Ever see how badly the color fades on cloth seats in a car that sits out in the sun all day? The formerly black rear headrests on my Mazda had been sun-bleached to a very pale gray by the time I got rid of it.
Maybe it depends on the type of cloth (and the age of the seats) but I find the cloth seats in my BMW to be very easy to clean. All I do is vacuum dirt from them regularly and use a type of cloth-cleaning-liquid to give it some "shine" and nice fragrance.
At 10 years old the cloth seats in my car still look and feel new. I'll take a picture as soon as I can. The biggest problem I have with the seats is that they are not very comfortable for long journeys. The standard E87 seats suck (the sport seats are so much better, but were a costly option). This is why I have thin pillows all over the driving seat for back support. They do help.
And while cleaning leather seats is simple and easy, I just don't like this material, even in luxury cars. I always associate leather with slippery and sliding seats (and I hate the smell of new leather). Cloth seats feel grippier.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 09, 2017, 04:37:29 PM
Maybe it depends on the type of cloth (and the age of the seats) but I find the cloth seats in my BMW to be very easy to clean. All I do is vacuum dirt from them regularly and use a type of cloth-cleaning-liquid to give it some "shine" and nice fragrance.
At 10 years old the cloth seats in my car still look and feel new. I'll take a picture as soon as I can. The biggest problem I have with the seats is that they are not very comfortable for long journeys. The standard E87 seats suck (the sport seats are so much better, but were a costly option). This is why I have thin pillows all over the driving seat for back support. They do help.
I'm not talking about cleaning up crumbs or "dry" dirt. I'm talking about when a toddler drops their sippy cup and spills juice on the seat, or a little kid dumps their ice cream cone and it plops on the seat. Stuff like that wipes very easily off of leather without staining.
QuoteAnd while cleaning leather seats is simple and easy, I just don't like this material, even in luxury cars. I always associate leather with slippery and sliding seats (and I hate the smell of new leather). Cloth seats feel grippier.
Cloth is grippier. For performance driving, I prefer cloth. It also doesn't get as hot in the summer or as cold in the winter.
When that guy vomited in my car, it would have been far worse if I had cloth seats
As a detailer, I can totally attest to the pure havoc children wreak on an interior. Cloth can be a bitch in that regard, but so can leather...the diligence of the parents in cleaning up a mess sooner rather than later can make or break a stain. In general, leather will be easier to clean, especially for liquids and if you attack it right away. Cloth just instantly soaks anything up, so if you let it dry and bake, you're asking for permanence. I've seen super nasty leather/vinyl as well that basically requires loading it up with degreaser and scrubbing it with a brush (soft-bristled, like a toothbrush) and then either wiping or vacuuming up the soils. But that's usually just a matter of long neglect (ie, never cleaning the seats) as opposed to the spot-stainability of cloth.
Even further, certain manufacturer's materials, whether cloth or leather or carpet, come clean easier or better than others. Toyota and Subaru carpets, which tend to be less plush and more "trunk carpet"-like come clean a lot easier than the plush crap in a Buick.
I would be down for some kind of synthetic material in cars. Problem is I don't think waterproof materials breathe well, which would make summer pretty sticky and nasty WRT sweat. Not sure how skin safe Scotch Guard is either. I think if there were an easy solution it would be on the market already. I think we will put some kind of fabric cover over the seats in the MKX.... that will absorb more but it will keep the underlying leather cleaner.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 09, 2017, 02:53:17 PM
I think cloth, overall, is a bit more pliable/flexible than a standard (p)leather, especially at lower temperatures where leather gets stiff. The choice between cloth and leather seats is obviously mostly subjective and situational, so you won't hear me say one is better than the other, but I do believe the material choice can make a difference between the feel of the seat all else being equal.
What ever happened to mohair. Beautiful stuff. Nothing ever quite felt like it. I clearly remember running my hands over it in my father's '38 Ford. Soft, luxurious, rugged, never felt cold in the middle of winter.
(https://s15.postimg.org/cbnx8y3qz/15876_Interior_Web.jpg)
Quote from: MX793 on June 09, 2017, 04:43:15 PM
I'm not talking about cleaning up crumbs or "dry" dirt. I'm talking about when a toddler drops their sippy cup and spills juice on the seat, or a little kid dumps their ice cream cone and it plops on the seat. Stuff like that wipes very easily off of leather without staining.
I've spilled water on the cloth seats, and some stains are slightly showing on the sides. But overall their condition is great; no tears or rips. They feel very durable when I clean them. I guess it's "quality cloth"? I dunno, it just feels durable and like a decent material.
PS: Thankfully I don't have kids riding with me. But I do chauffeur a friend around and her French Bulldog and that little guy loves to drool! :praise:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 10, 2017, 10:10:29 AM
I think we will put some kind of fabric cover over the seats in the MKX.... that will absorb more but it will keep the underlying leather cleaner.
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/978/yNlQWRM.jpg)
Quote from: MX793 on June 09, 2017, 02:58:36 PM
The proliferation of leather (or faux leather) seating has nothing to do with comfort. First, leather is seen as "premium", so people buy it because it carries the connotation of luxury or "upscale". Second, it's much easier to clean if you spill something on it. Since most Americans like to eat while in their car, and those with spill-prone little tykes almost certain will have food and drink in the car, a surface that you can simply wipe clean with a damp cloth is a huge plus. It also tends to hold up better. Ever see how badly the color fades on cloth seats in a car that sits out in the sun all day? The formerly black rear headrests on my Mazda had been sun-bleached to a very pale gray by the time I got rid of it.
And smells. Oh god, they hold on to smells.
2018 Lexus LS Getting A Price Hike, Could Start At $76K
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZPpVjoCZctM/Wbrs72qKTRI/AAAAAAAAKo0/quVTgG3xD2kSLlGXZh0fiMzBk9fJ9Q5RACLcBGAs/s1600/Lexus-LS-5.jpg)
We haven't heard much about the 2018 Lexus LS lately but Automotive News is reporting the model will cost around $76,000 when it goes on sale in February.
If that number pans out, the 2018 LS will cost significantly more than the current model which starts at $72,520. However, the car should undercut rivals as the BMW 7-Series and Mercedes S-Class which start at $83,100 and $89,900, respectively.
Detailed pricing will be announced closer to launch but Lexus' marketing boss told the publication "We do expect to attract people from different brands who may have drifted away."
Lexus hopes the car's sportier styling and greater emphasis on performance will win converts and help increase annual sales to 12,000 units in the United States. This would be a dramatic increase from the 5,514 units that were sold in 2016.
One of the car's key attractions could be the new twin-turbo 3.5-liter V6 engine that produces 415 hp (309 kW) and 442 lb-ft (598 Nm) of torque. It is backed up by ten-speed automatic transmission which can be paired to optional all-wheel drive system.
Link: http://www.carscoops.com/2017/09/2018-lexus-ls-getting-price-hike-could.html