https://jalopnik.com/come-on-guys-this-is-totally-the-mid-engine-corvette-1819368885
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--RzFySE3y--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/tbaioo8sipbglinlsho4.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--0wzr5leN--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/zym8vs55rc5lfyqdtujd.jpg)
Cor458?
A mid-engined "exotic" packing an LS V8, a 6-speed manual, and is RELIABLE makes me want to start rethinking my retirement folio. :dance:
Any guesses on MSRP? I hope they can keep it 5-figures, but realistically I'd wager around $120,000 - $150,000.
At least $150k.
Yup! right around 150K.....
Hot damn! A Corvette without disgusting chrome wheels? Sign me up!
Legit though, those rims looks really cool.
Quote from: Xer0 on October 11, 2017, 06:12:26 PM
Hot damn! A Corvette without disgusting chrome wheels? Sign me up!
Legit though, those rims looks really cool.
:rage:
Quote from: Rockraven on October 11, 2017, 04:16:05 PM
A mid-engined "exotic" packing an LS V8, a 6-speed manual, and is RELIABLE makes me want to start rethinking my retirement folio. :dance:
Rumoured to be a DOHC V8, but maybe a boosted V6. :hmm:
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 11, 2017, 06:48:21 PM
Rumoured to be a DOHC V8, but maybe a boosted V6. :hmm:
No! It'll be a V8!
Quote from: Xer0 on October 11, 2017, 06:12:26 PM
Hot damn! A Corvette without disgusting chrome wheels? Sign me up!
Legit though, those rims looks really cool.
I'm really tired of black rims.
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 11, 2017, 06:48:21 PM
Rumoured to be a DOHC V8, but maybe a boosted V6. :hmm:
I hope they're not that stupid.
They don't have an engine family that needs to be legitimized like Ford's Ecoboost.
High Feature V6! :erjerbs: :neverforget:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 11, 2017, 04:37:58 PM
At least $150k.
Nah I expect the Cadillac to be that price. Also the price will lower once the C7 is phased out in a few years and they throw the LT1 in it I'm sure
It's not a mid engined Corvette. That'll never happen.
This is the flagship car they're using to relaunch Saturn.
Quote from: Raza on October 11, 2017, 09:48:55 PM
It's not a mid engined Corvette. That'll never happen.
This is the flagship car they're using to relaunch Saturn.
"It'll run rings around it's competition"
nice
Quote from: Raza on October 11, 2017, 09:48:55 PM
It's not a mid engined Corvette. That'll never happen.
This is the flagship car they're using to relaunch Saturn.
What's the difference? Both are made out of plastic.
They have to keep the price low. Rationally speaking, there's no reason this thing should cost more than a Z06. They don't want to make the same mistake Acura did; nobody is going to drop Ferrari money on a Corvette.
How does anyone think this is less than $150k when a ZR1 is $125k and not on a unique chassis like this thing is
I don't see this bumping against Ferrari pricing, but it'll definitely be 6 figures. Consider a regular Stingray can easily be optioned to 75k+. Z06 starts at 80k and the last ZR1 sold at over 100k 7-8 years ago.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 12, 2017, 05:41:30 AM
They have to keep the price low. Rationally speaking, there's no reason this thing should cost more than a Z06. They don't want to make the same mistake Acura did; nobody is going to drop Ferrari money on a Corvette.
What's Ferrari money? I think the 488 starts around 270K and California at 200K. Even at 150, it's significantly cheaper.
Yeah, most 488s are in the $300k+ now.
I'd still rather have an '06 Ford GT for the same money. Though of course, you probably can't get a GT for ~150k in the used market.
Quote from: r0tor on October 12, 2017, 06:23:40 AM
How does anyone think this is less than $150k when a ZR1 is $125k and not on a unique chassis like this thing is
The regular Corvette is already on a unique chassis and starts at like $55K. No matter what purpose this thing serves, a $150K price point is absurd.
If it's meant to be the C8, a $100K base price hike is ridiculous. Joe HELOC mob will have a fit.
If it's meant to complement an FR C8, it's still capped at the upper end by the ZR1 & the benchmark: the 911 Carrera. The C2S PDK is just a couple ticks off of a Z06A in a straight line (0.3/3MPH down in the quarter), while being significantly better built, and let's face it, having a much better badge. So even for the same money this thing would have to be better than a 911, and for more money it would have to be God. It would have to shift the sports car paradigm, which I just don't see even being possible at this point. Corvette's big selling point is that it's a bargain... take that away and it becomes a more refined Viper. GM has to be careful o
All speculation points towards the "Zora" being a Ford GT level supercar competitor. This thing will be expensive and it will be limited. As the case with the Ford GT, there will be buyers from a large fan base.
The C7 is figured to be in production through 2020. No idea on what direction it goes.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 12, 2017, 07:11:42 AM
The regular Corvette is already on a unique chassis and starts at like $55K. No matter what purpose this thing serves, a $150K price point is absurd.
If it's meant to be the C8, a $100K base price hike is ridiculous. Joe HELOC mob will have a fit.
If it's meant to complement an FR C8, it's still capped at the upper end by the ZR1 & the benchmark: the 911 Carrera. The C2S PDK is just a couple ticks off of a Z06A in a straight line (0.3/3MPH down in the quarter), while being significantly better built, and let's face it, having a much better badge. So even for the same money this thing would have to be better than a 911, and for more money it would have to be God. It would have to shift the sports car paradigm, which I just don't see even being possible at this point. Corvette's big selling point is that it's a bargain... take that away and it becomes a more refined Viper. GM has to be careful o
That the regular Vette is on a bespoke platform built to a low price point has been one of the limiting factors of subsequent recent Ubervettes historically having trouble putting power down and just generally being more of a handful to drive than similarly potent, higher priced supercars. It's the same challenge Ford has faced with the hottest Mustangs. There's only so much you can do with a platform engineered to sell for a relatively low price point. What they've (Chevy) been able to do with that platform limitation has been admirable. Imagine what would be possible with a platform engineered around a 6 figure starting point? With more static weight on the rear, they can use more aggressive gearing (which is a big part of how Porsche overachieves on the dragstrip). And lest we forget, a C2S PDK lists for 110K with no other options...
Aren't there reports that GM is planning on spinning Corvette off as a sub-brand? It would make sense to keep the C7 around as the entry level model and go up from there.
I think they'll definitely keep a front engine model. They've been kicking ass with it, no reason to completely ditch it.
Quote from: r0tor on October 12, 2017, 08:24:03 AM
All speculation points towards the "Zora" being a Ford GT level supercar competitor. This thing will be expensive and it will be limited. As the case with the Ford GT, there will be buyers from a large fan base.
The C7 is figured to be in production through 2020. No idea on what direction it goes.
+1
Quote from: MX793 on October 12, 2017, 08:46:59 AM
That the regular Vette is on a bespoke platform built to a low price point has been one of the limiting factors of subsequent recent Ubervettes historically having trouble putting power down and just generally being more of a handful to drive than similarly potent, higher priced supercars. It's the same challenge Ford has faced with the hottest Mustangs. There's only so much you can do with a platform engineered to sell for a relatively low price point. What they've (Chevy) been able to do with that platform limitation has been admirable. Imagine what would be possible with a platform engineered around a 6 figure starting point? With more static weight on the rear, they can use more aggressive gearing (which is a big part of how Porsche overachieves on the dragstrip). And lest we forget, a C2S PDK lists for 110K with no other options...
Not taking that away from GM at all; the Corvette is a world class underdog sports car and a legit 911 alternative at half the price. I just think from a business perspective going after the GT, rather than playing in the 911 price range, is a huge mistake. They can let it go up to 200K+, but I think they should start it at just where the C7 currently ends price wise, if not a little lower. I just don't think there is a profitable market for half million dollar Corvettes... HELOCs don't go that high :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 12, 2017, 10:42:59 AM
Not taking that away from GM at all; the Corvette is a world class underdog sports car and a legit 911 alternative at half the price. I just think from a business perspective going after the GT, rather than playing in the 911 price range, is a huge mistake. They can let it go up to 200K+, but I think they should start it at just where the C7 currently ends price wise, if not a little lower. I just don't think there is a profitable market for half million dollar Corvettes... HELOCs don't go that high :lol:
1. As others have said, I don't think this is a successor to the C7. So Joe HELOC will still have his attainable Corvette.
2. It's entirely possible this will be an ultra limited Halo car like the Ford GT. You know, the one that's nearly half a million and every example was spoken for before the first one left the production line?
3. Saleen, a company that also catered to the Joe HELOC crowd with their pricy, upgraded Mustangs, managed to sell their S7 Supercar for roughly half a million back in 2006. I think GM will be able to move a few of these mid engine Ubervettes even at 250k+, provided the performance is there.
I think the GT is a performance benchmark but not a price benchmark
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 12, 2017, 11:04:33 AM
I think the GT is a performance benchmark but not a price benchmark
Hopefully.
And MX 2006 was a very long time ago. B.I. (before Iphone). It's a new era.
If they don't keep around some kind of RWD front engine V8 with a big rear trunk it's not a smart business decision.
Most corvettes are about the road trip/weekend trips away. There's a huge following there for that kind of driving. If it's only mid engine the trunk space will be tiny
Quote from: MrH on October 12, 2017, 06:55:44 AM
Yeah, most 488s are in the $300k+ now.
$400k out the door is pretty typical for a 488 nowadays.
Quote from: 68_427 on October 12, 2017, 09:37:07 PM
$400k out the door is pretty typical for a 488 nowadays.
That's fucking crazy. For an entry level Ferrari?
Quote from: Raza on October 13, 2017, 06:24:53 AM
That's fucking crazy. For an entry level Ferrari?
The California T and now Portofino are the entry level models
Quote from: 68_427 on October 13, 2017, 06:43:24 AM
The California T and now Portofino are the entry level models
Portofino? I haven't even heard of that. Outside of the IWC model.
Quote from: Raza on October 13, 2017, 07:23:32 AM
Portofino? I haven't even heard of that. Outside of the IWC model.
The California name is being retired and replaced by Portofino.
Quote from: MX793 on October 13, 2017, 07:31:51 AM
The California name is being retired and replaced by Portofino.
Oh.
The Portofino actually looks really really good too. And if the last version of the California is anything to go off of, it'll probably be really good to drive too.
Quote from: MrH on October 13, 2017, 07:57:57 AM
The Portofino actually looks really really good too. And if the last version of the California is anything to go off of, it'll probably be really good to drive too.
I think the California T looks better, but it does look pretty good. Maybe Ferrari just forgot how to style their more expensive cars?
I like their styling direction a lot. Portofino, 488, and 812 all look great IMO. Much better than the 599 and California.
Quote from: MrH on October 13, 2017, 08:05:59 AM
I like their styling direction a lot. Portofino, 488, and 812 all look great IMO. Much better than the 599 and California.
The 812 looks a bit awkward, but it's not downright ugly like a lot of what Ferrari has put out lately. The 488, though, will not win me over. The last good looking mid-engined car Ferrari put out was the 430.
The 812 was a step back from the F12 IMO, and the 488 was a step back from the 458, which was a step back from the F430. But other than that I have no complaints about Ferrari's current designs; the cars look good.
F12 had a better front end, but the 812 has a much better booty. Either way, both are a big step up from that ugly 599.
F430 is a classic, but I don't find the 488 or 458 bad looking at all.
Quote from: MrH on October 13, 2017, 08:18:15 AM
F12 had a better front end, but the 812 has a much better booty. Either way, both are a big step up from that ugly 599.
F430 is a classic, but I don't find the 488 or 458 bad looking at all.
458 was probably the worst looking Ferrari in 30 years.
458 has good details but bad proportions. Too low and wide. Speciale is still their best production berlinetta though.
I think you're all crazy; if any Ferrari is the worst looking it's the California.
I don't think Ferrari has made an unattractive car since maybe the 456.
Their sports car offerings since have been great, some better than others but nothing ugly - 348/355/360/430/458/488
In their GT lineup, I still think the 575M is the best looking one they've made in a while but nothing ugly in that line up either. I initially thought the 599 was grotesque but I've grown to like the design quite a bit. The 612 and FF aren't particularly to my taste but I don't think they're ugly by any measure.
And of course the F40/50/Enzo/FXX/LaFerrari cars are so special they're hard to criticize too much anyway.
I don't mind the 599, though I do view the 599:F12 like I do the C5:C6. 599 was a bit chunkier than a Ferrari should be.
Problem is context.... design wise, Ferrari did peak in the late 80s through early 90s. Nothing comes close to the F40, Testarossa, F355 etc design wise and I think they have rested on their laurels in that regard. But the current crop of Ferraris are much better cars, which is more important.
I'd like a more modern model that is more refined than those 80s models, but without the electronics. It'd be slower than the current cars, but more pure
You would want more torque on the street too. Both the F430 and 458 I drove had "DOHC VTEC syndrome"
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 13, 2017, 01:14:49 PM
You would want more torque on the street too. Both the F430 and 458 I drove had "DOHC VTEC syndrome"
I'd want the modern engine (possibly detuned a bit) with a good 6 speed. Multidisc clutch to handle the power without being a workout. Fat modern tires, low weight. It'll have to have airbags of course, but no need for millions of computer settings or traction control modes. On or off.
No backup cameras, tire pressure monitoring, power seats, etc. No touch screens. No active aero.
None of those things would take away from the driving experience though....
I think techy can be done right if it enhances the driving experience.
GM has the Riley-Miller Corvettes and the Wayne Taylor Racing Cadillacs. I don't think they're going after the Ford GT with this car. If Chevy does the right thing... reliable and inexpensive LS engine, keep the rest of the car light and simple, and price it as a Ferrari beater at less than half the price, I'll be pretty damn excited. If they do some kind of hybrid mashup, or a boosted V6, and price it as a Ferrari... :facepalm:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 13, 2017, 03:24:14 PM
None of those things would take away from the driving experience though....
I think techy can be done right if it enhances the driving experience.
Sure they do. It makes it less reliable, heavier, and more complicated. And more expensive.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 13, 2017, 04:00:57 PM
Sure they do. It makes it less reliable, heavier, and more complicated. And more expensive.
Active aero and power seats.... sure. Everything else, no. At least in terms of weight. And while they are more complex, again they are not complex in a way that affects driving. You can turn the screen off. Rear view camera only comes on.... in reverse. Even if TPMS fails it's just an annoying light. Tech that saps the fun out of driving sucks but all tech isn't bad.
Parallel parking my brother's S4 as much as I do, I see why modern cars need backup cameras.
Parallol :lol:
http://www.motortrend.com/news/possible-mid-engine-corvette-cad-drawings-leak/
Looks like someone leaked some CAD images.
Some interesting observations from the Corvette forum. LT1 or very similar engine. Similar construction to the current C7, which is based off the C6, which is based off the C5, rather than a unibody.
Both point to a car that's not super technically advanced and heavily based on the current Corvette, which gives me hope that this thing will be reasonably affordable rather than a Ford GT type car. I'm much more excited for a reasonably priced mid engined Corvette than some hyper expensive limited production exotic
It has coil springs, first for a Corvette.
I can't imagine this will be "reasonably affordable." It's likely the end of times for the truly affordable Corvette. The Camaro has basically taken its place in that role, so it's not a total loss.
Quote from: giant_mtb on December 17, 2017, 08:28:13 PM
I can't imagine this will be "reasonably affordable." It's likely the end of times for the truly affordable Corvette. The Camaro has basically taken its place in that role, so it's not a total loss.
Naw man, adjusted for inflation, the Corvette has been the same price for decades, and the Camaro roughly 2/3rds the price. Even at $120,000 (the most widely speculated price) the mid-engined Corvette would still be a bargain.
Quote from: giant_mtb on December 17, 2017, 08:28:13 PM
I can't imagine this will be "reasonably affordable." It's likely the end of times for the truly affordable Corvette. The Camaro has basically taken its place in that role, so it's not a total loss.
Barely used C7 Corvettes are a great deal right now. You can get a well optioned Z51 Stingray with a manual for like $40k with 10k miles. So much car for the money.
Quote from: MrH on December 17, 2017, 08:37:29 PM
Barely used C7 Corvettes are a great deal right now. You can get a well optioned Z51 Stingray with a manual for like $40k with 10k miles. So much car for the money.
That's cool. But I'm talking about this new mid-engined one. :huh:
Quote from: Rockraven on December 17, 2017, 08:36:29 PM
Naw man, adjusted for inflation, the Corvette has been the same price for decades, and the Camaro roughly 2/3rds the price. Even at $120,000 (the most widely speculated price) the mid-engined Corvette would still be a bargain.
So doubling the price means it's still affordable? :nutty:
Compared to cars at that price point its gonna be a beast, just like the Stingray. And unlike the GT-R it won't have the character of a really fast mainstream rental car
I think the Corvette brand is underleveraged. I don't think the Stingray will go away. Would be cool if it became its own GM brand, and they brought the Camaro in that fold, as well as some kind of Alpha based SS replacement.
But as for this I think its the right move. Current platform is not capable of the bench racing specs and laptimes GM wants to achieve.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 17, 2017, 09:37:02 PM
Current platform is not capable of the bench racing specs and laptimes GM wants to achieve.
Correct. It merely destroys the competition in its price range, instead of Centimating
TM them.
Hmmm. No DOHC V8 apparently. I'm fine with that. Some 12+ years later and everyone else STILL struggles to beat the LS7's 505 hp.
Coil springs were inevitable - simply look to the Camaro (the better car, and that has a lot to do with it).
Quote from: GoCougs on December 17, 2017, 11:46:29 PM
Hmmm. No DOHC V8 apparently. I'm fine with that. Some 12+ years later and everyone else STILL struggles to beat the LS7's 505 hp.
Coil springs were inevitable - simply look to the Camaro (the better car, and that has a lot to do with it).
Yeah, stock Corvettes do amazingly well with the transverse leaf but it's still the first thing to get upgraded on a track car.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 17, 2017, 11:46:29 PM
Hmmm. No DOHC V8 apparently. I'm fine with that. Some 12+ years later and everyone else STILL struggles to beat the LS7's 505 hp.
Coil springs were inevitable - simply look to the Camaro (the better car, and that has a lot to do with it).
Oh, the LS7s valvetrain beat it. Emissions regs buried it. I'm sure there are create engines that destroy the LS7 on pump gas. Doesn't matter
Quote from: 565 on December 17, 2017, 07:37:33 PM
http://www.motortrend.com/news/possible-mid-engine-corvette-cad-drawings-leak/
Looks like someone leaked some CAD images.
Some interesting observations from the Corvette forum. LT1 or very similar engine. Similar construction to the current C7, which is based off the C6, which is based off the C5, rather than a unibody.
Both point to a car that's not super technically advanced and heavily based on the current Corvette, which gives me hope that this thing will be reasonably affordable rather than a Ford GT type car. I'm much more excited for a reasonably priced mid engined Corvette than some hyper expensive limited production exotic
It has coil springs, first for a Corvette.
Corvettes used coil springs up front prior to the C4.
https://jalopnik.com/even-more-leaked-mid-engine-corvette-cad-images-show-ne-1821585349
Looks like the twin turbo DOHC V8 is real and will be a 2nd engine choice.
That will be interesting to see how the Pushrod LT1 holds up against this new engine. I wonder what the weight difference will be.
A bit sad IMO, but it's reality. The higher the compression ratio and emissions requirements, the more critical that cylinder size becomes (bigger = harder to control combustion to whatever desired end).
AMG seems to be the only automaker to have gotten the turbo V8 sound right, and it is hoped GM can as well.
The Audi RS6/7 and Porsche 4.0L don't sound bad at all
Agreed
GM knows the SBC is its bread and butter, they will spend the money to make it sound good. I expect to see that engine in the next Escalade and probably xxx Denalis. Maybe the next CTS-V and ZL1.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on December 17, 2017, 11:54:11 PM
Yeah, stock Corvettes do amazingly well with the transverse leaf but it's still the first thing to get upgraded on a track car.
Not because coils are better per se, but because it's cheaper/easier to make varying spring rates using coils. It's quite costly to change the spring rate on the transverse leaf. The transverse leaf has it's own set of advantages, namely lighter weight, less unsprung weight, lower CG, and can use it as a locating arm of the suspension with it's own anti-roll properties. Meaning, like the engine, it can make for a very compact and competent package. But, if you want to swap out spring rates, it becomes very hard to do at the track to set it up for different circuits, or make it adjustable, like a coilover can be. Coils can be easily swapped out, or made adjustable, but they have crappy geometry that has to be compensated for as the suspension compresses or rebounds, and binding is a thing that the engineers have to deal with.
Looks like a pretty neat package...
(https://s17.postimg.org/6fi826xgv/BBHwgj_C.jpg)
... crickets from the Detroit Auto show...
:mask:
Quote from: r0tor on January 16, 2018, 10:14:08 AM
... crickets from the Detroit Auto show...
:mask:
Because the ZR1 was just shown and not even on sale yet.