Finally some news that I've expected... Shell sees the future in Europe and bought a recharge station company to add to it's rollout.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newmotion-m-a-shell/shell-buys-newmotion-charging-network-in-first-electric-vehicle-deal-idUSKBN1CH1QV
It's wise for oil companies to hedge their bets like this. The price of solar and wind are dropping like crazy.
Suggestion. We should have a CarSPIN board covering EVs (plus I guess plugin hybrids), the technology behind them & their supporting infrastructure.
I was just reading about a new charge point for homes that have PV panels (or even wind generators). It make decisions about sourcing the charge: e.g. whether to favor home-generated juice rather than sending it out to the grid, or maybe save the home generated stuff for the Powerwall and only charge the car with low-tariff off-peak electricity from the grid.
The energy density of batteries is still much lower than that of gasoline; we don't have a Moore's Law ramping up batteries every year as we did for CPUs. but I think that disadvantage is being offset to some extent by smart management controls we're now seeing.
The energy density growth curve is still pretty steep. It'll flatten out eventually but we're not there yet. (BTW, Moore's Law for CPUs isn't really a "law" anymore; single-core perf has been flat for years now)
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-battery-energy-density-improves-5-8-per-year-Does-this-represent-an-average-or-is-it-a-consistent-trend-each-year-Do-these-improvements-increase-the-cost-What-has-been-the-trend-if-any-regarding-energy-to-weight-ratio
EV subforum is a great idea BTW. We should deprecate some older less used subforums though, just so we're not spread too thinly.
Also keep in mind that batteries only have to reach ~30% of gasoline's energy density to match up to the average car's efficiency.
I'm still skeptical about a need for on the go charge stations. We already have them in our homes, and utilities can just add higher wattage street charging by upgrading transformers. Heck, through public-private partnerships they could offer quasi subsidized high capacity home charging stations. If the market saturation really reaches critical mass those things wouldn't seem so far fetched.
I think a subforum dedicated to "all things future" in the automotive realm would be pretty cool. I have a bone to pick with that goofy alarmist Malcolm Gladwell piece.
Quote from: Laconian on October 16, 2017, 02:33:48 PM
EV subforum is a great idea BTW. We should deprecate some older less used subforums though, just so we're not spread too thinly.
Maybe move all of the Guess the Car challenges to the guess the car challenge subforum ;)
Fantastic use of hybrid technology
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/16/bmw-active-hybrid-e-bike-250-w-66-pound-feet-torque-504-wh-battery-pack/
Quote from: Laconian on October 16, 2017, 02:33:48 PM
EV subforum is a great idea BTW. We should deprecate some older less used subforums though, just so we're not spread too thinly.
Another step towards becoming an unthusiast forum I see.
Quote from: r0tor on October 16, 2017, 02:51:32 PM
Fantastic use of hybrid technology
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/16/bmw-active-hybrid-e-bike-250-w-66-pound-feet-torque-504-wh-battery-pack/
250W, that's like a whopping third of a horsepower. :lol:
Most electric bicycles have a motor in the hub. I'm not sure how I feel about the motor spinning the pedals
Oh, crazy. I wonder what the tradeoff is for that.
Quote from: Laconian on October 16, 2017, 03:02:06 PM
250W, that's like a whopping third of a horsepower. :lol:
That's about what a human can produce -shrug-
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 16, 2017, 03:05:12 PM
Most electric bicycles have a motor in the hub. I'm not sure how I feel about the motor spinning the pedals
No, most of the higher end newer bikes are all mid-drive. Hub drive is clunky and old compared to mid-drive setups.
Quote from: Laconian on October 16, 2017, 02:33:48 PM
EV subforum is a great idea BTW. We should deprecate some older less used subforums though, just so we're not spread too thinly.
GTCC doesn't really need to exist anymore.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 16, 2017, 03:28:09 PM
No, most of the higher end newer bikes are all mid-drive. Hub drive is clunky and old compared to mid-drive setups.
Oh.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 16, 2017, 03:28:09 PM
No, most of the higher end newer bikes are all mid-drive. Hub drive is clunky and old compared to mid-drive setups.
Sucks to be an early adopter!
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 16, 2017, 03:28:09 PM
No, most of the higher end newer bikes are all mid-drive. Hub drive is clunky and old compared to mid-drive setups.
Correct. Such ebikes (motor on the crank) have been all the rage (inducer) in mountain biking world and from what I can tell, is the way of the ebike going forward. They work well apparently.
Currently, in my area, these are considered motorcycles and cannot be used on trails by law. 250W continuous will have you blowing by 99% of riders (have to pedal for power to be applied).
Quote from: GoCougs on October 16, 2017, 09:27:57 PM
Correct. Such ebikes (motor on the crank) have been all the rage (inducer) in mountain biking world and from what I can tell, is the way of the ebike going forward. They work well apparently.
Currently, in my area, these are considered motorcycles and cannot be used on trails by law. 250W continuous will have you blowing by 99% of riders (have to pedal for power to be applied).
Yeah, the mass is centralized more, and it allows you to take advantage of the chainring gearing as well, instead of just the cassette gears as with hub drive. Plus, the wheels are just standard wheels, so removing and installing the rear wheel isn't any different than a regular wheel.
I'm surprised they're considered motorcycles, though. Unlike hub drive, don't mid drive bikes have to be pedaled in order for the assist to work? IOW you can't just sit there without pedaling and have the motor do all the work for you like you can on a hub drive bike, unless there's some different system I'm not aware of.
I can see how it would be irritating to regular MTB'ers, though.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 16, 2017, 09:50:11 PM
Yeah, the mass is centralized more, and it allows you to take advantage of the chainring gearing as well, instead of just the cassette gears as with hub drive. Plus, the wheels are just standard wheels, so removing and installing the rear wheel isn't any different than a regular wheel.
I'm surprised they're considered motorcycles, though. Unlike hub drive, don't mid drive bikes have to be pedaled in order for the assist to work? IOW you can't just sit there without pedaling and have the motor do all the work for you like you can on a hub drive bike, unless there's some different system I'm not aware of.
I can see how it would be irritating to regular MTB'ers, though.
Most trails around here are multi-use - bikers, hikers and horses, and bikers have to yield to the other two. Ebikes scream, esp. on the flat. It's a recipe for a major wreck and could jeopardize biker access.
Quote from: Morris Minor on October 16, 2017, 02:22:32 PM
Suggestion. We should have a CarSPIN board covering EVs (plus I guess plugin hybrids), the technology behind them & their supporting infrastructure.
I was just reading about a new charge point for homes that have PV panels (or even wind generators). It make decisions about sourcing the charge: e.g. whether to favor home-generated juice rather than sending it out to the grid, or maybe save the home generated stuff for the Powerwall and only charge the car with low-tariff off-peak electricity from the grid.
The energy density of batteries is still much lower than that of gasoline; we don't have a Moore's Law ramping up batteries every year as we did for CPUs. but I think that disadvantage is being offset to some extent by smart management controls we're now seeing.
We don't have enough traffic to sustain much of anything outside of the politics forum.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 16, 2017, 02:37:33 PM
I'm still skeptical about a need for on the go charge stations. We already have them in our homes
And for the millions of people who live in apartments or homes without garages?
Quote from: Raza on October 16, 2017, 10:42:12 PM
And for the millions of people who live in apartments or homes without garages?
At least finish reading the sentence before you rage :lol: I mentioned street charging
Electricity is already decentralized; there is really no need for centralized "charging stations"
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 17, 2017, 05:38:18 AM
At least finish reading the sentence before you rage :lol: I mentioned street charging
Electricity is already decentralized; there is really no need for centralized "charging stations"
We considered an electric car because the city will give you a dedicated charging spot in front of your house. But good luck enforcing that in a city; you'd be on the phone with the police asking for cars to be towed more often than you'd be parking where you're supposed to park. Then, when you do park there, you're asking for vandalism.
I really don't think electric charging is viable for anyone who doesn't have their own garage to do it in. Some punk kid would walk around unplugging all the cars all the time if the charging is done outside. Can you imagine? I mean, if we live in a world where someone would smash a windshield for no reason, electric cars are a perfect target for sowing that little brand of punkass chaos.
Yeah, some sort of lock that uses the car's key to lock the charger onto the receptacle would be good. But people can barely be bothered to use keys anymore. So they'd have to make it some internal mechanism like an automatic door look is now.
Quote from: giant_mtb on October 17, 2017, 07:42:51 AM
Yeah, some sort of lock that uses the car's key to lock the charger onto the receptacle would be good. But people can barely be bothered to use keys anymore. So they'd have to make it some internal mechanism like an automatic door look is now.
Great idea.
But I would guess the money will go more towards private garages with charging as part of the rent (or metered and pay for what you use plus a space).
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on October 17, 2017, 09:03:21 AM
Great idea.
But I would guess the money will go more towards private garages with charging as part of the rent (or metered and pay for what you use plus a space).
Building private garages isn't going to help current infrastructure. Plus, from what I've seen around here, most new housing developments are for apartments/condos with no garages.
Quote from: Raza on October 17, 2017, 06:27:09 AM
We considered an electric car because the city will give you a dedicated charging spot in front of your house. But good luck enforcing that in a city; you'd be on the phone with the police asking for cars to be towed more often than you'd be parking where you're supposed to park. Then, when you do park there, you're asking for vandalism.
I really don't think electric charging is viable for anyone who doesn't have their own garage to do it in. Some punk kid would walk around unplugging all the cars all the time if the charging is done outside. Can you imagine? I mean, if we live in a world where someone would smash a windshield for no reason, electric cars are a perfect target for sowing that little brand of punkass chaos.
Not everybody lives in a shithole where that's a concern.
But, I'm pretty sure as we get more and more mainstream electrics that power theft is going to be a legitimate issue.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 17, 2017, 09:55:26 AM
Building private garages isn't going to help current infrastructure. Plus, from what I've seen around here, most new housing developments are for apartments/condos with no garages.
Around here, you're not allowed to build without a garage or spot for to each dwelling. If you build a building with 50 apartments, you need at least one spot for each one.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 17, 2017, 09:58:53 AM
Not everybody lives in a shithole where that's a concern.
But, I'm pretty sure as we get more and more mainstream electrics that power theft is going to be a legitimate issue.
There are parts of the country where there are no teenagers? I'd like to move there.
Quote from: Raza on October 17, 2017, 10:17:56 AM
There are parts of the country where there are no teenagers? I'd like to move there.
If the internet service is better and they have a fairly decent gaming console, they have better things to do.
So they're there; but you never have to actually see them.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 17, 2017, 10:22:59 AM
If the internet service is better and they have a fairly decent gaming console, they have better things to do.
So they're there; but you never have to actually see them.
Internet or not, I think punk kids will be punk kids.
Quote from: Raza on October 17, 2017, 10:24:17 AM
Internet or not, I think punk kids will be punk kids.
I don't have such problems.
Quote from: Raza on October 17, 2017, 10:17:56 AM
There are parts of the country where there are no teenagers? I'd like to move there.
Florida.
Quote from: Raza on October 17, 2017, 06:27:09 AM
We considered an electric car because the city will give you a dedicated charging spot in front of your house. But good luck enforcing that in a city; you'd be on the phone with the police asking for cars to be towed more often than you'd be parking where you're supposed to park. Then, when you do park there, you're asking for vandalism.
I really don't think electric charging is viable for anyone who doesn't have their own garage to do it in. Some punk kid would walk around unplugging all the cars all the time if the charging is done outside. Can you imagine? I mean, if we live in a world where someone would smash a windshield for no reason, electric cars are a perfect target for sowing that little brand of punkass chaos.
Unplugging would be the least that they would do. More likely they would go around town stealing all of the charging cables and stripping them for copper. And it would be adults doing it to get quick money for drugs.
Quote from: Raza on October 17, 2017, 06:27:09 AM
We considered an electric car because the city will give you a dedicated charging spot in front of your house. But good luck enforcing that in a city; you'd be on the phone with the police asking for cars to be towed more often than you'd be parking where you're supposed to park. Then, when you do park there, you're asking for vandalism.
I really don't think electric charging is viable for anyone who doesn't have their own garage to do it in. Some punk kid would walk around unplugging all the cars all the time if the charging is done outside. Can you imagine? I mean, if we live in a world where someone would smash a windshield for no reason, electric cars are a perfect target for sowing that little brand of punkass chaos.
This is a valid point. How do you protect charging apparatus from the thuggery of the skells that infest our cities?
Or even accidental damage from innocent people crossing the streets & snagging cables.
(https://inhabitat.com/files/franceevcharge.jpg)
Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 17, 2017, 10:34:36 AM
I don't have such problems.
To be fair, though, you don't have an electric car.
Quote from: RomanChariot on October 17, 2017, 11:10:51 AM
Unplugging would be the least that they would do. More likely they would go around town stealing all of the charging cables and stripping them for copper. And it would be adults doing it to get quick money for drugs.
I didn't even think of that.
Many of the grocery stores here have electric charging stations. The city codes require mixed commercial/residential buildings have a certain number of charging ports. Higher voltage charging is reducing the charge time (IIRC we have 1000V chargers which give heavy heavy Teslas about 120 miles per hour charge). Batteries are getting more energy dense, so charging doesn't have to happen as often. Some companies offer charging as a cheap perk for employees; it's a reasonable transportation benefit if you consider that a 60KW car can be filled for under five bucks.
IMO we are converging on EV feasibility from a number of angles at once.
Quote from: Laconian on October 17, 2017, 12:15:06 PM
Many of the grocery stores here have electric charging stations. The city codes require mixed commercial/residential buildings have a certain number of charging ports. Higher voltage charging is reducing the charge time (IIRC we have 1000V chargers which give heavy heavy Teslas about 120 miles per hour charge). Batteries are getting more energy dense, so charging doesn't have to happen as often. Some companies offer charging as a cheap perk for employees; it's a reasonable transportation benefit if you consider that a 60KW car can be filled for under five bucks.
IMO we are converging on EV feasibility from a number of angles at once.
I shudder to think what's going to happen when those thousand volt cables which hang out in the elements year round start to crack and peel their insulation off.
And what about people overfilling their cars with gasoline, or using bad filler equipment?
There's a whole lot of software monitoring and two way serial communication going on while it dispenses electricity. I would expect any sort of abnormal discharge would cause the unit to clamp down and enter maintenance-required mode. It's probably still safer than people messing around with gas.
Quote from: Laconian on October 17, 2017, 12:20:00 PM
And what about people overfilling their cars with gasoline, or using bad filler equipment?
There's a whole lot of software monitoring and two way serial communication going on while it dispenses electricity. I would expect any sort of abnormal discharge would cause the unit to clamp down and enter maintenance-required mode. It's probably still safer than people messing around with gas.
Of course there's short and arc protection built into them; but rarely is any of that quick enough.
Gas pumps exist almost exclusively at gas stations; which means there's at least some sort of active oversight. When you have chargers scattered all over the city, and vehicles charging unattended, it becomes a different story.
I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, but a potential concern.
Ya, I can see some safety issues coming up when you're playing with 300 Volts. Nothing that couldn't be overcome.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 17, 2017, 09:55:26 AM
Building private garages isn't going to help current infrastructure. Plus, from what I've seen around here, most new housing developments are for apartments/condos with no garages.
An acquaintance is the head of a nonprofit that does nothing but lobby the city to NOT allowing for building of parking spots for new housing for the explicit purpose of eventually getting cars out of the city (and true to form, this acquaintance lives in an expensive home in the nice part of the city with off-street parking).
Quote from: GoCougs on October 17, 2017, 01:47:59 PM
An acquaintance is the head of a nonprofit that does nothing but lobby the city to NOT allowing for building of parking spots for new housing for the explicit purpose of eventually getting cars out of the city (and true to form, this acquaintance lives in an expensive home in the nice part of the city with off-street parking).
too bad I'm not an evil advocate, and way too lazy- sounds like prime social media harassment fodder.
Quote from: Laconian on October 17, 2017, 12:15:06 PM
Many of the grocery stores here have electric charging stations. The city codes require mixed commercial/residential buildings have a certain number of charging ports. Higher voltage charging is reducing the charge time (IIRC we have 1000V chargers which give heavy heavy Teslas about 120 miles per hour charge). Batteries are getting more energy dense, so charging doesn't have to happen as often. Some companies offer charging as a cheap perk for employees; it's a reasonable transportation benefit if you consider that a 60KW car can be filled for under five bucks.
IMO we are converging on EV feasibility from a number of angles at once.
Well, except that EVs are still huge net money losers for automakers despite government subsidies, irrational investor exuberance, and corporate largess...
Quote from: GoCougs on October 17, 2017, 01:47:59 PM
An acquaintance is the head of a nonprofit that does nothing but lobby the city to NOT allowing for building of parking spots for new housing for the explicit purpose of eventually getting cars out of the city (and true to form, this acquaintance lives in an expensive home in the nice part of the city with off-street parking).
:facepalm:
Quote from: GoCougs on October 17, 2017, 01:47:59 PM
An acquaintance is the head of a nonprofit that does nothing but lobby the city to NOT allowing for building of parking spots for new housing for the explicit purpose of eventually getting cars out of the city (and true to form, this acquaintance lives in an expensive home in the nice part of the city with off-street parking).
Which city? Seattle? As if they need any help with their scarcity of parking...
Capitol Hill is a fucking nightmare to find parking in on weekends. You can literally while away half an hour of your evening just looking for a spot. And then it turns out it's illegal b/c of some kind of encumberance. I seldom visit Seattle anymore.
Yes, Seattle, and this acquaintance (relative of a good friend) is apparently quite the political thing around town - and they have been successful.
It matters. Since most of Seattle's new residential construction is high rise buildings, there is indeed theoretical (underground/lower floor) space for parking, but they have been successful in changing zoning to lessen the number of spots available.
Capitol Hill is a PITA but I manage. Sometimes will park at friends too.
Quote from: Raza on October 17, 2017, 10:17:56 AM
There are parts of the country where there are no teenagers? I'd like to move there.
Plenty of teenagers in my subdivision now, and my NYC apartment. No vandalism :huh: Shitholes = shitholes by the identity property :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 17, 2017, 04:43:37 PM
Plenty of teenagers in my subdivision now, and my NYC apartment. No vandalism :huh: Shitholes = shitholes by the identity property :lol:
There's zero vandalism? I find that hard to believe.
Quote from: Raza on October 17, 2017, 04:44:58 PM
There's zero vandalism? I find that hard to believe.
Dudes in and near Detroit would chop the cables off just for the scrap copper.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 18, 2017, 06:09:28 PM
Dudes in and near Detroit would chop the cables off just for the scrap copper.
Well, there's that.
Made a meme about electric charging...
(https://i.imgur.com/YJ5ln76.png)
Quote from: Laconian on October 19, 2017, 09:14:21 PM
Made a meme about electric charging...
(https://i.imgur.com/YJ5ln76.png)
:nutty:
Quote from: Raza on October 17, 2017, 04:44:58 PM
There's zero vandalism? I find that hard to believe.
Well, I haven't experienced vandalism, nor have I seen any talk of it on my subdivision's Nextdoor page, and it's a neighborhood with 28K houses and its own school district :huh:
28k houses? That's not a neighborhood. That's a town. :lol:
Town... I think that's a county around here
Well, there are some apartments and townhouses too. But like I said, haven't seen any issues with vandalism. Some break ins though, but rare enough that they freak people out when they happen.
But you consider 28k houses a neighborhood? Do you think a school district is always a neighborhood? Do you know all of these 28k+ people? Your definition of a neighborhood is fucked. :lol:
Absolutely. I've lived in Manhattan and Harlan County KY. I'd much more consider a place where you see people all the time more "neighborhoody" than somewhere you can't see your neighbors. There are plenty of block organizations and clubs that get people together here.
Quote from: giant_mtb on October 20, 2017, 03:19:27 PM
But you consider 28k houses a neighborhood? Do you think a school district is always a neighborhood? Do you know all of these 28k+ people? Your definition of a neighborhood is fucked. :lol:
My neighborhood is like 350 million people and borders Canada. :devil:
Trying to think of how you'd vandal/thief-proof charging points on streets or in communal parking areas. I think the yobs would lay waste to it all... so you're pretty much SOL unless you have a secured garage or live in a crime-free area. Or go with wireless charging.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 20, 2017, 07:44:28 PM
Absolutely. I've lived in Manhattan and Harlan County KY. I'd much more consider a place where you see people all the time more "neighborhoody" than somewhere you can't see your neighbors. There are plenty of block organizations and clubs that get people together here.
So you see 28k houses daily and shout "hey neighbor?"
Quote from: Morris Minor on October 21, 2017, 06:30:44 AM
Trying to think of how you'd vandal/thief-proof charging points on streets or in communal parking areas. I think the yobs would lay waste to it all... so you're pretty much SOL unless you have a secured garage or live in a crime-free area. Or go with wireless charging.
Wireless charging for large batteries across more than a few millimeter gap?
Quote from: giant_mtb on October 21, 2017, 07:37:49 AM
So you see 28k houses daily and shout "hey neighbor?"
What is he Ned Flanders?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 21, 2017, 07:57:51 AM
Wireless charging for large batteries across more than a few millimeter gap?
yes, look up the bus experiment Utah was doing. 90% efficiency across a foot or more.
http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=1754251&itype=CMSID
And I saw Korea is taking it even further in googling.
Quote from: giant_mtb on October 21, 2017, 07:37:49 AM
So you see 28k houses daily and shout "hey neighbor?"
Do you say "hey neighbor" to every house in your neighborhood every day? When did that become the metric?
Quote from: Morris Minor on October 21, 2017, 06:30:44 AM
Trying to think of how you'd vandal/thief-proof charging points on streets or in communal parking areas. I think the yobs would lay waste to it all... so you're pretty much SOL unless you have a secured garage or live in a crime-free area. Or go with wireless charging.
Tesla supercharger delivers juice at 480VDC.... that should be enough of a deterrent.
High crime areas will probably be the last folks to adopt to electric cars anyway.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 20, 2017, 07:44:28 PM
Absolutely. I've lived in Manhattan and Harlan County KY. I'd much more consider a place where you see people all the time more "neighborhoody" than somewhere you can't see your neighbors. There are plenty of block organizations and clubs that get people together here.
You lived in Harlan County? Now that's hickville!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 21, 2017, 10:51:17 AM
Do you say "hey neighbor" to every house in your neighborhood every day? When did that become the metric?
No, but I don't consider my neighborhood to be all the houses in my local school district, either. :lol:
Regardless, our metrics are totally different. Just gotta give you shit, mang.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 21, 2017, 06:14:11 PM
You lived in Harlan County? Now that's hickville!
A surreal year. I would not go back
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 21, 2017, 08:14:57 PM
A surreal year. I would not go back
Florence is where it's at.
But I'd rather be in Charlotte. Nicer winters and closer to the beach.
Also, no widespread poverty or opiate crisis. Well, at least not together across the whole county.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 21, 2017, 10:51:17 AM
Do you say "hey neighbor" to every house in your neighborhood every day? When did that become the metric?
Actually, yes everytime I see them
I think the vandalism angle is a bit overblown, especially the for-profit stuff. Sure people steal copper gutters, piping, A/Cs, refrigerators, etc...during smash and grabs or at abandoned property, but they're generally not chopping down power lines or other electrical systems w/ active current. And I don't think it's because they're scared of getting caught. As for the minor mischief of unplugging, eh, maybe get a lock for your home charger, but otherwise just deal. There is nothing stopping a prankster right now from letting the air out of one of your tires, but everyday we wake up and 99.99999999% of ours haven't been touched.
Interesting charge comparison chart.
https://evobsession.com/electric-car-charging-capabilities-comparison-of-27-models/
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on November 04, 2017, 11:49:39 PM
Interesting charge comparison chart.
https://evobsession.com/electric-car-charging-capabilities-comparison-of-27-models/
TL;DR version: It's a mess out there & nobody's going to take EVs seriously until a worldwide standard is in place.
My vote would go to whichever is the fastest and nicest to use.
But of course that's not going to happen.
Early sign of a business description morphing from 'oil company' to the less-specific 'stored energy company' or somesuch?
Shell to open electric vehicle charging points at UK petrol stations
Shell is opening a first wave of electric vehicle charging points at its UK petrol stations, in a sign of the far-reaching changes under way in the transport and oil sectors.
Drivers will be able to recharge 80% of their battery in half an hour at forecourts in London, Surrey and Derby from this week, with a total of 10 service stations to be equipped with rapid chargers by the end of the year.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/18/shell-to-open-electric-vehicle-charging-points-at-uk-petrol-stations (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/18/shell-to-open-electric-vehicle-charging-points-at-uk-petrol-stations)
The writing's on the wall. Better to cannibalize yourself than let somebody else feast on your outdated business model.
Nothing like waiting half an hour for 3/4 of a tank of gas.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 10, 2017, 12:11:58 PM
Nothing like waiting half an hour for 3/4 of a tank of gas.
That's why the current electric car model doesn't work with the current fuel station model. Fuel stations will have to have large parking lots full of chargers to service large numbers of cars as opposed to 4 to 8 pumps for gas vehicles. Electric car charging will likely require regular stores and restaurants to have chargers so that your car can charge while you shop or eat (this is already starting to happen). It may even work to have neighborhood chargers. I could even see HOAs putting in charging areas.
Quote from: RomanChariot on November 10, 2017, 01:27:59 PM
That's why the current electric car model doesn't work with the current fuel station model. Fuel stations will have to have large parking lots full of chargers to service large numbers of cars as opposed to 4 to 8 pumps for gas vehicles. Electric car charging will likely require regular stores and restaurants to have chargers so that your car can charge while you shop or eat (this is already starting to happen). It may even work to have neighborhood chargers. I could even see HOAs putting in charging areas.
Agreed on all counts. Charging your car will soon become a lifestyle. :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 10, 2017, 02:33:55 PM
Agreed on all counts. Charging your car will soon become a lifestyle. :lol:
It already is for my co-worker. He charges his Volt with solar power at his home. When he drives to work he parks at Costco about 1.5 miles away and hooks it up to their charger and pulls his bike out to get to work. He then bikes to Costco at lunch time to pick up his car. Rinse and repeat.
My brother just drives his Bolt to and from work and charges at home. He has enough battery capacity to last an entire work week.
Quote from: Laconian on November 10, 2017, 04:11:20 PM
My brother just drives his Bolt to and from work and charges at home. He has enough battery capacity to last an entire work week.
this is so much more sane. People will value shorter commutes and/or garages which offer charging.
You could comfortably have a really long commute on the Bolt's battery. :huh:
Not Char though, he burns an entire tank of gas a day. (RIP Earth)
Quote from: Laconian on November 10, 2017, 04:11:20 PM
My brother just drives his Bolt to and from work and charges at home. He has enough battery capacity to last an entire work week.
Exactly. We already have the charging infrastructure in our homes. The only hurdle is in apartment complexes, but once this shit reaches critical mass they will find a solution for that.
I've seen quite a few Tesla chargers at restaurants just off the highway. That's how you do it
I think at some point they will add supercapacitor bank to the traditional battery. The capacitor bank could be useful for small mileage trips but recharge extremely quickly.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 10, 2017, 06:20:46 PM
Exactly. We already have the charging infrastructure in our homes. The only hurdle is in apartment complexes, but once this shit reaches critical mass they will find a solution for that.
I had that thought too. Nobody (preppers excepted) has gasoline filling infrastructure at home, but millions have most of what's needed for electric charging at home. So the gas station forecourt demand for charging will be lower. I'm guessing Royal Dutch Shell at al will be figuring out slick charge point set ups and offering them at grocery stores, restaurants, etc.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 10, 2017, 07:15:36 PM
I've seen quite a few Tesla chargers at restaurants just off the highway. That's how you do it
The (small) mall has a row of them here, one the movie theater/food court side. We get lots of Canucks driving down and visiting, or I don't think the mall would exist.
I saw a few superchargers at a Hotel right off I-80 in Evanston, WY. Google map that one and tell me where they were coming from. ;)