Can The Kia Stinger Take On The All-Aussie Holden Commodore?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SzjTtCnJy8
The Kia Stinger has sent hearts racing around the world from the moment it was revealed and in Australia, is set to dramatically shake up the industry.
As both the locally-produced Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore are now dead and many manufacturers are turning towards crossovers and SUVs, the Kia Stinger needs to work its way into the hearts and minds of horsepower-loving Australians. Can it do the job?
To find out, Car Advice pitted the twin-turbo V6 variant of the Stinger against the Holden Commodore SS-V Redline, one of the final variants of the all-Aussie Commodore before sales of the re-badged Opel Insignia commence.
Before seeing which of the two is more practical and better to drive on the street, Car Advice conducted a number of performance tests between the two and the results are very, very close.
Which would you pick?
Link: http://www.carscoops.com/2017/10/can-kia-stinger-take-on-all-aussie.html
Generally not a fan of yellow cars, but.... dayum. :wub:
(http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/770/382/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/kia-stinger-v-holden-commodore-comparison-97.jpg)
The funny thing about yellow is that it enhances a well designed vehicle but looks like crap on something not so nice.
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 16, 2017, 08:44:21 AM
The funny thing about yellow is that it enhances a well designed vehicle but looks like crap on something not so nice.
I agree....
The Kia looks like a drawing from a 3 year old
Quote from: r0tor on October 17, 2017, 05:39:37 AM
The Kia looks like a drawing from a 3 year old
Glad it wasn't just me.
I think it's the front fascia that looks off. It looks weird.
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 16, 2017, 08:44:21 AM
The funny thing about yellow is that it enhances a well designed vehicle but looks like crap on something not so nice.
That's black you're thinking of.
Yellow is the opposite. It reduce visible reflections making the light lines less important, and the visual impact of the color itself reduces the effect of awkward line.
I mean Jesus, look at the c-pillar on that thing.
Quote from: 2o6 on October 17, 2017, 09:39:57 AM
I think it's the front fascia that looks off. It looks weird.
The grille has always be the part of Kia that, imo, looked very cheap. With this version, there is some improvement. Eventually, I believe, it will morph into a full-fledged Skoda grille.
Also the front and rear door handles and the taillight almost, but don't quite line up. Creates a confusing and incoherent flow along the side.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 17, 2017, 09:52:31 AM
That's black you're thinking of.
Yellow is the opposite. It reduce visible reflections making the light lines less important, and the visual impact of the color itself reduces the effect of awkward line.
I mean Jesus, look at the c-pillar on that thing.
Compare a yellow Aztek to a black Aztek. Most people looking at an Aztek get a slight feeling of revulsion. If it's yellow, they feel like throwing up.
On the other hand, if a car looks good in yellow, it will look good in any colour, but yellow will make it look brilliant. I consider the 275 GTB, Pantera, first year Escape.
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 17, 2017, 10:02:52 AM
Compare a yellow Aztek to a black Aztek. Most people looking at an Aztek get a slight feeling of revulsion. If it's yellow, they feel like throwing up.
On the other hand, if a car looks good in yellow, it will look good in any colour, but yellow will make it look brilliant. I consider the 275 GTB, Pantera, first year Escape.
That's making ugly look uglier, that's a different story.
Consider your cars in black first. In black it becomes more about the shape than the color.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 17, 2017, 10:06:25 AM
That's making ugly look uglier, that's a different story.
Consider your cars in black first. In black it becomes more about the shape than the color.
There could be something to that. However, if a car looks good in yellow, it will look good in any colour so my presumption is that yellow has the effect of enhancing beauty while highlighting ugly.
An example...
(https://s1.postimg.org/1pk2fw23tb/pantera4.jpg)
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 17, 2017, 10:16:46 AM
There could be something to that. However, if a car looks good in yellow, it will look good in any colour so my presumption is that yellow has the effect of enhancing beauty while highlighting ugly.
An example...
(https://s1.postimg.org/1pk2fw23tb/pantera4.jpg)
(http://www.foxmotorsports.com/admin/uploads/13920644010.jpg)
Interesting how the colours reflect different lines. Black absorbs so much.
Well, the lighting is different there too, but to my point, the black accentuates the curves. On this car it also makes the panel gaps disappear, the intake blend in and the chrome pop.
This car would look good in any color, but black shows us why better.
Of course I'd take a Pantera in any colour, but yellow makes everything 'pop'.
The more I see the Kia, the uglier it looks. Give me the G70 over this every time.
Yeah I don't like anything past the front doors of the Kia
C&D review out.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-kia-stinger-gt-33t-awd-test-review
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 19.9 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 30.5 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.3 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.6 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.2 sec @ 108 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 164 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g
Its pretty quick and the numbers all look right, but it still sounds like another almost-great Hyundai/Kia product. I expect the second generation of this car will be something special since it will be build with input from all the big dogs that they poached from the Germans.
Kia has the disease which has affected Audi for the longest time and now is an epidemic among many car brands. Have to put the same damn grill on every vehicle in their line up. It looked real good when they first put it on the Optima. The worst example is the Sportage. The one on this yellow car doesn't bother me. It's not great looking but it's OK.
The details, the details.
It's OK; the non-sport German cars don't have the details right either. And they cost a lot more.
Yellow I don't think is just making great looking cars really pop and ugly looking cars vomit inducing. Great looking large cars or SUVs mostly don't look good in yellow (like a Mercedes S class or Bentley or Escalade). Same with fire engine red. There are exceptions like the FJ Cruiser which looks good in yellow to me and some older muscle cars.
Quote from: Xer0 on October 17, 2017, 03:23:51 PM
C&D review out.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-kia-stinger-gt-33t-awd-test-review
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 19.9 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 30.5 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.3 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.6 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.2 sec @ 108 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 164 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g
Its pretty quick and the numbers all look right, but it still sounds like another almost-great Hyundai/Kia product. I expect the second generation of this car will be something special since it will be build with input from all the big dogs that they poached from the Germans.
Great looking car and pretty impressive performance stats. Win-win.
Quote from: veeman on October 17, 2017, 06:15:41 PM
Yellow I don't think is just making great looking cars really pop and ugly looking cars vomit inducing. Great looking large cars or SUVs mostly don't look good in yellow (like a Mercedes S class or Bentley or Escalade). Same with fire engine red. There are exceptions like the FJ Cruiser which looks good in yellow to me and some older muscle cars.
+1 I just had this School Bus/Fire Engine discussion with a friend!
Quote from: Rockraven on October 17, 2017, 06:39:25 PM
Great looking car and pretty impressive performance stats. Win-win.
It can get pricey though. I think the example C&D tested was like 52K or there-abouts.
Quote from: Xer0 on October 17, 2017, 03:23:51 PM
C&D review out.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-kia-stinger-gt-33t-awd-test-review
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 19.9 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 30.5 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.3 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.6 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.2 sec @ 108 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 164 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g
Its pretty quick and the numbers all look right, but it still sounds like another almost-great Hyundai/Kia product. I expect the second generation of this car will be something special since it will be build with input from all the big dogs that they poached from the Germans.
With Kia/Hyundai, they're always one generation away it seems.
Hard pass
Since when is 0-60 in 4.6 seconds "bad"?
You guys are insane.
Quote from: MrH on October 18, 2017, 09:56:12 AM
With Kia/Hyundai, they're always one generation away it seems.
Hard pass
Still got a bit of rocket couch taste in your mouth?
Quote from: 2o6 on October 18, 2017, 09:59:23 AM
Since when is 0-60 in 4.6 seconds "bad"?
You guys are insane.
Driving experience is more than metrics. For example Genesis I was looking at is as fast as the G, handles as well too, on paper at least.... but the transmission sucked. The only time it feels that fast is WOT, otherwise the transmission kicks down. ZF8 by contrast is awesome, responsive and always in the right gear. It's those details that make the difference
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 18, 2017, 10:57:43 AM
Driving experience is more than metrics. For example Genesis I was looking at is as fast as the G, handles as well too, on paper at least.... but the transmission sucked. The only time it feels that fast is WOT, otherwise the transmission kicks down. ZF8 by contrast is awesome, responsive and always in the right gear. It's those details that make the difference
Yes, but magazines are giving the Stinger positive reviews, and it's really not fair to pre-judge it against older models.
Randy Pobst and Motor Trend gave it a so-so review. Fun on the street at 7 or 8 10ths, but not composed enough to threaten the established players on the track at 9+ 10ths. Good first effort, but room to improve. Felt a lot like the Genesis coupe's early reviews.
Does track performance really matter? :huh:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 18, 2017, 11:36:00 AM
Does track performance really matter? :huh:
To some it might. There are people that track or auto-x their sport sedans. To them, it could be the tipping point between this and something else.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 18, 2017, 11:36:00 AM
Does track performance really matter? :huh:
Read my mind. I'm gonna say no, but details matter. For the street, good damping, good engine sound and response, tight brake feel and a smart + responsive transmission are key. It falls short in those areas.
I don't think the # of people who track their brand new warrantee'd sports sedans is big enough to move the needle. I.e. I don't think it's worth it to them to pay for oil/transmission coolers or any of that shit.
My brother in law took his certified S5 to an Audi sponsored driving/track day outside of Chicago a year or so ago. He said there were something like 20 people there and it was the most fun he ever had while driving and was amazed at what his car could do especially with a professional driver behind the wheel. He said that by the end of the day some of the people had "check engine" lights on in their car and he was glad his did not. He doesn't think he'll do it again for a while :lol:
This KIA is good value for money. That's about it.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on October 18, 2017, 12:56:02 PM
This KIA is good value for money. That's about it.
What more is necessary? It's a good car without the brand tax. That's a good thing
Quote from: MrH on October 18, 2017, 09:56:12 AM
With Kia/Hyundai, they're always one generation away it seems.
That's how I feel about most Japanese cars I've driven. :devil: :lol:
[/halftrolling]
Quote from: Raza on October 19, 2017, 05:14:50 AM
That's how I feel about most Japanese cars I've driven. :devil: :lol:
[/halftrolling]
I wish I could buy a brand new Integra
Boy racer ugly.
But it's fast, that's for sure.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 19, 2017, 09:16:25 AM
I wish I could buy a brand new Integra
Just spot weld and put a half cage in an old one.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 18, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
What more is necessary? It's a good car without the brand tax. That's a good thing
This again. It's a good car, not best in class by any means. Thus, value for money is its main selling point.
For best in class the selling point is just that, not value for money. We´ve had tons of discussions on whether it´s worth it or not. That people buy & pay for the german premium means it is worth it to them, though something tells me that's hard to grasp for you.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 19, 2017, 09:16:25 AM
I wish I could buy a brand new Integra
I still want a DC5 ITR. Those things were hot. Whenever you see an RSX these days, they're all clapped out and dinky looking.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 19, 2017, 09:16:25 AM
I wish I could buy a brand new Integra
There's a lot of cars I wish they would just start making again (preferably at a huge discount :lol:)
- IS300
- E46 Wagon
- Civic Si EP3
- RSX Type S
It'd be awesome if I could buy a new Civic Si EP3 for like $16k.
Quote from: MrH on October 19, 2017, 11:37:57 AM
There's a lot of cars I wish they would just start making again (preferably at a huge discount :lol:)
- IS300
- E46 Wagon
- Civic Si EP3
- RSX Type S
It'd be awesome if I could buy a new Civic Si EP3 for like $16k.
One of those is not like the others. :nono:
EP3/DC5 had the worst suspensions in Honda history.
If you can find a competent shop, you can get an old DWB Honda shell and a K-series engine put together for ~$15K. Probably $20K with an integrated cage & chassis refresh
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 19, 2017, 12:20:10 PM
EP3/DC5 had the worst suspensions in Honda history.
If you can find a competent shop, you can get an old DWB Honda shell and a K-series engine put together for ~$15K. Probably $20K with an integrated cage & chassis refresh
Perfectly capable street chassis. Just because they didn't have the adjustability needed for racing didnt make them bad at what they were intended for.
I suppose that is fair, but it was more a geometry issue than an adjustability issue. Weird steering rack placement and bump steer issues. Real Time Racing got the go ahead to completely re-engineer the rear suspension in their RSX race car and there are a lot of after market fixes like kits to flip your tie rods from on top to under. Other than that though they were solid.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 19, 2017, 01:06:24 PM
I suppose that is fair, but it was more a geometry issue than an adjustability issue. Weird steering rack placement and bump steer issues. Real Time Racing got the go ahead to completely re-engineer the rear suspension in their RSX race car and there are a lot of after market fixes like kits to flip your tie rods from on top to under. Other than that though they were solid.
Mine never had a hint of bump steer.
It would show up on lowered cars I understand.
Suspension geometry on the EP3 isn't ideal. Lowered cars have issues. Guys who auto-x them have to run stupid high spring rates in the rear because of the camber curve.
Quote from: Raza on October 19, 2017, 11:19:22 AM
I still want a DC5 ITR. Those things were hot. Whenever you see an RSX these days, they're all clapped out and dinky looking.
That's what's happening to all the older VWs and Audis around here. They seem to be very popular with the stance crowd. Half were probably blown up or close to it when they bought them, so they get to work on them and shit.
I would rather an old VW get stanced than something like an S2000 or w/e. Sometimes trolololling goes too far. To me, something like a 911 or even a Z rendered undrivable is that.
Quote from: giant_mtb on October 19, 2017, 03:40:31 PM
That's what's happening to all the older VWs and Audis around here. They seem to be very popular with the stance crowd. Half were probably blown up or close to it when they bought them, so they get to work on them and shit.
Stretch and poke on like MkIII Golfs and Jettas was a thing for around a year, but I haven't seen a car like that in 5 years, I don't think. In fact, I don't see a lot of rice in the city. Mods are different here. Limo tint, big wheels; that sort of thing.
IDK the EP3 is fun to drive, and I have no interest in armchair, bench racing about suspension curves.
Quote from: Raza on October 20, 2017, 06:06:42 AM
Stretch and poke on like MkIII Golfs and Jettas was a thing for around a year, but I haven't seen a car like that in 5 years, I don't think. In fact, I don't see a lot of rice in the city. Mods are different here. Limo tint, big wheels; that sort of thing.
We don't have black people, so there are no donks. :lol:
Quote from: 2o6 on October 20, 2017, 08:17:48 AM
IDK the EP3 is fun to drive, and I have no interest in armchair, bench racing about suspension curves.
They still look great and are pretty fun to drive. They're equipped well enough and have a great shifter.
A new one of those would make a great commuter car.
Quote from: MrH on October 20, 2017, 09:31:10 AM
They still look great and are pretty fun to drive. They're equipped well enough and have a great shifter.
A new one of those would make a great commuter car.
To be honest, the current gen Fit feels sort of similar, albeit slower.
Quote from: 2o6 on October 20, 2017, 09:33:57 AM
To be honest, the current gen Fit feels sort of similar, albeit slower.
Uglier though :mask:
Quote from: 2o6 on October 20, 2017, 09:33:57 AM
To be honest, the current gen Fit feels sort of similar, albeit slower.
If you can live with the speed, the new Fit is phenomenal. Dat chassis, so much fun.
Quote from: MrH on October 20, 2017, 11:35:13 AM
Uglier though :mask:
well you don't look at the car while driving it ;)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 20, 2017, 12:06:53 PM
If you can live with the speed, the new Fit is phenomenal. Dat chassis, so much fun.
The steering could be better, though. Also that 6th gear is basically vestigial
Quote from: MrH on October 20, 2017, 09:31:10 AM
They still look great and are pretty fun to drive. They're equipped well enough and have a great shifter.
A new one of those would make a great commuter car.
Isn't the Fit just a roomier version of it? It's probably slower, but I bet it gets better gas mileage.